What would You do with A♣ A♦ on the flop? Your Stack (UTG +1): $1,330 Their Stack (UTG): $655 Pot: $100 Board: Q♥ T♥ 4♣ UTG checks, You bet £35, CO, BTN & BB fold, UTG raises to $165 A) Fold B) Call (stack off on any safe turn) C) Call (stack off on any turn) D) Raise to $655 (all in)
Very tough. I'm leaning towards options b or c. I'd probably say B, but then stack off on even an unsafe turn because I'm bad and can't fold aces, so the true answer for me is C.
@@woodstock7799 yeah but I get to have another card to make my hand look weaker, I'm in position so he has a chance to bet again, and then he'll be more committed to call by the turn when I shove if he's behind. But what do I know as I said I am bad
I think that’s a results oriented “good fold” by brad. Hellmuth could now own him with a check raise on just about any board and any range if he’s letting AA go that easily. He should have called and reevaluated the turn IMO.
Is Hellmuth there to be on the blog?... “I dunno, I dunno”. Haha Johnathan winning me over with dry sarcasm all over the place. Actually happy to see Hellmuth playing a tiny game just so he can be in the vlog and give poker more exposure. Like him or not, Hellmuth is good for the game and a better person than most haters know. 🍀♥️🍀♥️
No he won't get owned.... it won't get exploited... because he won't do it that often. And he can very clearly observe an opponent trying to exploit as they would have a far too high c/r frequency
You're assuming that only Hellmuth will adjust his game after this hand but Brad won't. Why can't Brad in future hands be aware that Phil might take loose shots at him and call him down or shove with weaker holdings?
New subscriber. You promote a lot but I think the fact that you condense so much quality info into videos that are of a reasonable length makes your channel overall +EV. I really like how you show the solver during your hand analysis. Demonstrating the math of these ranges in this way is awesome
I think its easier to make these so called crazy folds against helmuth because he makes himself so polarized and everyone knows how much he underbluffs so one pair hands are doing terrible... unless you're drawing to nutted hands I really think folding single pairs to excessive helmuth action is kinda trivial
I expect that in a great many spots, under bluffing is the correct strategy. Not GTO, but correct due to opponents who call too often, such as KQ. Phil has probably reached this conclusion, though maybe not consciously. If being abrasive causes more people to call more often, then it is easy to see how this works for him.
I don't see how someone as experienced as Helmuth calls QQ preflop to play it 5 ways. Same with TT. The hands he'd likely have that would be winning post-flop are QT and maybe 44. I HATE hoping for a safe draw, but these tutorials help me understand why that can be the better play. Despite that, I probably would have raised.
This is a big problem when you are facing an opponent who doesn't care about these stakes at all. As I play min buy-in in cash game, it is easy all in for me.
This situation is especially funny because when we fold here we're insulting Phil Hellmuth, we're telling him that he's so bad at the game and he underbluffs so much that we don't have to protect ourselves against his strategy; and he's so clueless that he thinks we're showing respect to him by folding.
Actually in a world where everyone overcalls or tries to bluffcatch close to indifferent hands underbluffing is a very smart strategy. This time he looks dumb because of his persona but he's made millions doing what he does and he certainly knows generally when to be balanced or not
It's a great fold if brad thinks that hellmuth will respect his c-bet into the field and flat his draws at a high frequency, maybe hellmuth does just flat all his flush draws bc he thinks his fold equity is so low
Good players can make exploitable plays as long as they are few and far in between... I think he is smart enough to not bet fold aces all the time, so if you try to exploit him with bluffs you will get caught, and he will observe your way too high c/r flop frequency
After Phil limping in, he should Not have QQ and TT. Hands that beat us are 44 and QT. Heards and straight draws are also likely like KJo, Axhh, J9. Would Stick around, if draws komplete and he gets aggressive, get out of there
he limped with QT. But he's UTG playing low stakes where he could have limped QQ, TT or AA just to see the action. It is clear the game was recreational, as any smallest stake game for a high roller
definitely call hard to lay down aces in this spot considering he is only going to have QQ and TT very very rarely and getting it in on the 4 on the turn because that reduces combos of 44 and we beat QT now
With AA no heart I'm definitely going to value bet much bigger on the flop since we unblock all draws and top pairs. When we bet small we need to understand this means our range should be a lot wider so there's absolutely no way we're folding AA. Given the pre-flop action nobody will have QQ and it's even pretty unlikely that they will have TT. So we only lose to QT basically. I would be calling the raise and looking to call down on safer runouts (no heart, no 9). The hardest spot would be if an Ace of hearts comes as we would have top set but straights and flushes would all get there.
Call. Folding overpairs to a raise OTF is a sure fire way to get exploited. Sure, PH has QT here very often, but he could have some NFDs along with pair + draw. Everyone already folded once action got to PH, which nobody seemed to mention yet. Its a lot easier to raise on a draw when the field has already folded to BO's c-bet. OBV, the 4 OTT is a tough card because A4❤ is def a hand PH could have so if he does jam, it would be a really tough call. Bottom line, I think its a call to evaluate the turn. Safe cards that don't pair the board, and PH keeps firing, maybe you fold. But here I'd call.
I made the same fold with aces the other day with aces on a 10, 8, 3 board. He raises massive. I know the player so well that I know he's only doing that with 2 pair minimum. I was right.
I literally paused the video when Jonathan said. Here's my reasoning: $300 in pot. $600 behind. I could be wrong, but based on what I know about Phil, I doubt he's usually doing this without a set or two pair (for value) or a nut-flush or straight+flush draw here as semi-bluffs, especially after we raised in early position and bet into a multi-way pot; both of which should skew his check-raise range towards strong hands. Considering we don't have Ah that certainly opens up Phil's range for nut flush draws. How many will he have here VS sets? Hard to say, and Phil will take advantage of his reputation for being tight to make these kinds of plays as bluffs once in a while. Probably not enough to balance when he's doing it for value though, so I lean towards a fold. Nitty, yes, but you beat Phil by exploiting his tendency for making too-tight folds, not by stacking off in close positions with one pair hands, so I fold, but I could also see an argument for getting it in on a safe turn.
Quickly reraise all in like you have a big draw and want him to fold KQ. He could have AQ hearts which makes you about a 5/4 favorite. He doesn’t have QQ and that leaves 44, TT, and QTs for hands you’re behind on.
What I would do is fold here, here's why: 1.Phil knows he's strong, he didn't bet big, so if phil had a straight or flush draw, he would just call, because when it comes down to it, phil is NOT a cash game player, he's a tourney player. He loves cheap draws. 2.Phil only raises with 2 pair or better in this spot, look at what he did against Doug Polk, played the nuts in an awful way, because there was a draw, and he's too afraid to make tough decisions on post flop play. 3. Phil doesn't have AQ or KQ because he would trap. Phil LOVES to trap. If he can only beat a bluff/mediocre hand, he will trap and brag about his trapping abilities. This is why I would fold. Phil doesn't have near enough bluffs (near enough being a number greater than 0). I know you like to talk Phil up, but he isn't a great cash game player, and he even waits to get into tourneys late so that the tough decisions will be easier.
So how what are the odds of winning with top pair if there is nothing else on the board and only undercards? What are the odds of winning with middle pair in the same situation? What about bottom pair? Can you lay the percentages out?
Hero iso's villain's limp with AcAd, gets called in four spots. Pot is 100. Flop is QhTh4c. Our red ace is a diamond. We bet 1/3 pot, fols to villain, who raises a hair under pot, pretty much exactly pot once you realize the pot is going to be fully raked. What do we do? We are not going to fold. And we are not gong to raise. What does that leave? Calling, obviously. We are not going to like an ace, nine, or heart on the turn or river, and a king or jack is not much fun for us either. Let's try to put the villain on a range, given that he open-limped (terribad) and did not 3-bet after the hero iso'ed and got called in three spots. If he has a pocket pair, it is probably jacks or less. Maybe he has QQ; a lot of old-school players distrust that hand, treating it like a medium pair rather than a premium hand. He can have a bunch of AhXh and AsXs, a lot of suited connectors, maybe as small as 54s, possibly as big as KQs (although he should be thinking of opening with a hand this strong rather than limping). Suited gappers are possible down to maybe T8s, maybe lower, if he is thinking that he's Phil Hellmuth, goddammit, and he can beat these monkeys with any remotely playable hand. But Phil is arrogant and a narcissist, and he is woefully ignorant of the modern game, but he isn't stupid, and he presumably understands position and starting hand selection. He checked the flop, and check-raised, after the hero bet small and the other players dropped out. As I said, he does not understand the modern game, and he may very well look at that small bet as being "weak." His value range is of course going to include TT and 44 and, if he has the no-limit dinosaur's fear of QQ as a "medium" pair, QQ. It will also include hands like KQs, but likely not KQo (no-limit dinosaurs think of KQo as a "trouble hand"). I would discount AQs, but not rule it out entirely (but there is only one combo, AsQs, available because of our two ace blockers in our hand). Three combos of KQs or even JQs are more likely, He might even think that QJs is strong enough to checkraise a "weak" 1/3 pot c-bet. He has all three QTs in his range, but no Q4 or T4. His bluff range includes a whole lot of AhXh, as well as KhJh or Jh9h (for an OESFD) and maybe even K9s for a gutshot SFD. He has other KJs and J9s combos as well, and a whole lot of connectors and gappers with heart draws with backdoor straight potential as well. So he has a lot of hands to pick from to bluff with, as well as his value hands, some of which we beat.. He might even be fool enough to checkraise a hand like AT because he smells weakness in the 1/3-pot c-bet. So we are going to call here, and likely continue with a safe turn card. Folding is out of the question, and raising is foolhardy.
probably call. RR is no option. If you think phill is only raising with effective nuts (2pair and better) maybe this is a fold. Online 10nl playing multiway I often fold these kind of raises (but i would bet bigger - The fold was easier if the original bet was bigger). I would fold to turn bet
Personally don't like the fold (except if you literally have a soul read on your opponent) for a couple of reasons. 1. As someone mentioned, you can get check-raised way too often if this is shown on the vlog. He's gotta consider that since he's vlogging he can't make some exploitative plays that other players can make since a lot of people he plays with, watch his videos as well. 2. I think a call is totally fine, we can evaluate turns. Phil can easily have KQ, QJs or even some bluffs like Kh9x, AhJx etc. 3. There are some good turns for you as well, as in this exact instance. Also, you're letting all his flush draws easily take it down without even getting there. Again, I think Brad is a much better cash player than me and obviously knows the field way better so I'm dead sure he had a massive read on Phil. But I'd still lean to calling one street cause of the reasons mentioned above. Let me know what you guys think as well. Any reasons I missed out or any reasons I missed out as to why a fold is fine here.
3:00 Noone is gonna fold a T in a 5way pot vs a 60-70% cbet? Well assuming they are all fish that might be correct, but you should definitely fold most of your Tens here vs such a cbet into so many players.
Yes and while I think Brad's fold is pretty nitty, it is actually hard to play too nitty in a 5 way pot. If you lead into 5 people and get raised you are almost always against a very strong range.
Peaple normally makes Fun/or Shame Hellmuth for raging. But honestly most of the players are fishes. I actually undestand him, because even tho sometimes he rages over normal situations, think about It. He studied a Lot, he puts the effort, the hours,etc and he loses to luck. I find myself on this raging spot, where Im actually a decent poker player, I make plays that not a single fish makes, I study everyday, watch your vídeos,etc. Im actually trying to improve, but Luck brings me down because I face so many fishes on tournaments and Im tired of watching them get rewarded. 2 times today I made the right choice on a hard spot in a tournament hand and the Guy got Lucky on the river and won my chips. Im playing only SnG now, tournaments are so much luck based that It doesnt matter much How much you study. I had A7 on SB, the BB goes all in, I suspected that he was Just trying to steal the blinds since he was a doing this often, so I called, and I was right, he had 10 6, and he won with a pair of 6 on the river
Thanks Jonathan! I read Phil's little book, #POSITIVITY a long time ago and really enjoyed the honesty of it. While Phil is a personality and a performer when he plays poker, any man can tilt. We've all seen him do it, and it looks very different when it's real. What I got most out of the book is that Phil is always working on is controlling his temper and being a better human. I watch this scene with Brad and I think Phil has come a long way. I've watched him in person on and off the felt, and I think for being such a poker demigod he's a good guy. Nice breakdown by the way, and thanks for your own honesty with the, "man, this is a really tough spot," and "I'm not sure what I would do here." One thing I know I would NOT do is sit down at that table.
I would just push. I don't think Phil has many monsters here. He wouldn't have limped TT or QQ, that leaves him basically with 44 and QTs which will beat us. I don't think he is so loose that he would limp/call T4s or Q4s. (Of course Brad would knew better because he has the reads.) Against QTs we have still a lot of equity. However, he can have an awful lot of draws. Flush draws, straight draws, combo draws. We block none of them. Because the pot is so big he would have difficulties to fold his draw. So I guess we are 2:1 favorite on his range, he can't fold a lot of weaker hands and then I just push it. I think this is superior to calling, because half the deck completes a flush or a straight draw. This would create a difficult situation on the turn, because he seldom has both and we would still have an equity of 30% or something if a draw arrives. It would be difficult to fold when a scare card comes except it is a flush card K, J, 9. Also another T or 4 could be bad in case he bluffs 54s or something which he could. We would be in bad shape on the turn on a lot of cards. If a safe card comes we are likely to not get a lot of money from weaker hands at the turn. So I like to getting it in at the flop when we are in good shape and he can't get out of the pot easily with his draws because he still has a lot of equity. Edit: Ok, I was completely wrong with my assumptions. It looks like Phil is a lot less aggressive and less balanced than I thought. The video title was somewhat misleading because Phil wasn't furious at all. He was quite friendly and took it like a sportsman, I think. Phil being furious sounds completey different. Still, nice video.
Since Phil can have many hands with lots of equity that won’t fold to a shove I think I would go all in on flop. I don’t want to put myself in a tough turn spot by just calling if a scare card comes. I guess the argument for calling is that Brad has position and can decide how to proceed in the hand if the turn is a brick.
I call and probably stack off on any safe turn. Phil is doing this play with his best hands and some good equity draws. It would be a lot better with the Ah as we would block the top draws in his range but regardless on this board im not folding unless something super scary comes.
Phil will raise a lot of Qx hands here I've seen him do it on high stakes poker but what he thinks of brad is important here as well so I think this is a clear shove based on how I've seen Phil overplay his pairs in the past.
all in and hope i'm good. turns don't really help me, and only make him more likely to fold during turn when his equity does go down (and make me less money). if he's already good, doesn't matter probably, so nothing to lose at that point.
Normally this is too exploitable to fold to check raise on flop. Have to call and see what he does on turn. That said. Since we know how Helmuth plays, we can find a tight fold. But I would really like to call one more street and see what he does on a safe card.
Against Hellmuth, the chances he has Q10 there are extremely high. It's Q10, 44, or Axhearts, period. Nothing else. But you still have to call there with all that equity and two cards to come. You can always fold the turn. If the turn is an A or a 4, as it was, you stack him. And showing the Aces there is just inviting other people to bluff you off your overpairs all day.
If they try to bluff you off your overpairs you're gonna make a lot of money, because you're only folding since this is a 5-way flop against Phil Hellmuth.
Snap muck. Don't pay off the nit. Phil Hellmuth is not often bluffing an UTG raiser's c bet into 4 people without having AA beat. He bluffs in good bluff spots, not smart cards. He's got it here, I'd guess some kind of QT suited.
Phil getting outplayed in a cash game by someone who has played 20 years less. Sounds about right. 7 final tables though this WSOP. Interesting Jekyll and Hide dynamic.
I don't usually find myself playing this deep. So I usually get married to my AA and put it all in. I think 🤔 a fold here is read dependent. Phil usually has a big hand 👌 here, but it's such a small 🦐 game 🎯 for him is he talking it seriously 😒. Phil takes everything seriously. So it's a good read. And a good fold. If you read the opponent as splashy and aggressive it's ok to rip it all in. Sometimes the LAG has it. But I think 🤔💬 it's a positive E.V against a LAG. The reason I don't like a call against a LAG is because there are lots of 😔 bad 😞 cards on the turn that can be used as a scare card ♦️♠️ against you.
I think Phil can have sets here, but I think he has many more hands that we beat, such as AJs(hearts), J9s, KQs. Call planning to call down on safe runouts.
It’s hard to say what I would have done in that spot... everybody says what they would’ve done, but if I’m going to try and be honest. I probably would have seen the turn and on a safer board offer a bad price to the draws as that seems like Phil would be more committed after that flop bet. This was a good fold too
Analyzing this from brads perspective is one thing but what about phil raising so much to 165 i mean he raise to 105 he has brad in and phil thinks he made the right raise after the turn comes a 4 he feels better but clearly it is enough to get aces to fold is this the wrong move by phil? What hands are calling him when aces arent or just sets aces and kings? Maybe ak of hearts
If stacks were 655 on flop, for Brad to rip it in or call it off, he would be putting in 620 more to be in a pot of 1390, so 44.6% equity reqd, not 38% (about 8.25) ?? Makes a big difference. Hard to have that much equity unless Hellmuth's range is chock full of draws or weak top pairs , and it is Phil Hellmuth. Draws like KJ (without a heart) shouldnt raise this amount because if he is shoved on, he would need to call another 490 to win 1390 (35% equity reqd), so would be forced to either put a decent chunk in then fold or make a -EV call, so it would be a horrible way to play a decent equity draw, when he could've just called the flop getting like 5 to 1 direct odds . same for small flush draws - if shoved on leaves him facing a a call which is breakeven even if he wins every time he makes his flush, which is far from certain. So he 'should' be only raising this amount with draws that can call it off, or junk he can easily fold, - and its likely just draws that can call it off - Ahxh , KJhh K9hh J9hh (if KJs is even in his limping range). V that sort of range, plus value hands QT and 44, AA is more like 37%.
Im really curious how it would have played out if Brad would have made a bigger flop bet. Does Phil just call? or does he still raise and Brad is forced to call because hes invested now?
I think the advantage of betting small on the flop, is to call a raise - I think that's why you'd do it. So I am coin-flipping between flat and plow... Maybe flat calling has the advantage - in that you;re keeping his entire range in play, and not just continuing against the top of his range - 2 pair, sets and combo draws... So this time - Call.
Without a heart, I jam. With the heart, it depends on my opponent. With all of the poker I've watched from Phil, I'd say this is a fold, but it's a tough spot
Not sure about your comment that a semi-bluff raise is targetting QJ/KQ, wouldn't those hands actually be better bluff catchers because they block QT and QQ? Obviously in this case the aces would've sucked out whereas KQ wouldn't, but I feel like it's worth noting that regardless
I wouldn’t fold against Helmuth even if I had KJ. But seriously now, I’ve paused the video and I’m pondering what to do when Phil Helmuth raises me almost 4 times my bet… The only thing I can think of is that he has either a very weak Q9 and is trying to muscle his way just because he thinks other are scared of him or he has what he always has here when he appears on televised high stakes games, and that is a K high flush draw. So I think I’m just gonna chug it in now and face the music. Yeah, I still wouldn’t have folded 🤦🏻♂️
Nice video , I have situations where this comes up a lot . I play kinda nitty and make plenty of money from the loose passive crowd , as in plenty of calls pre flop and either they fold to C-bet or they show up with a weaker hand by the river ...BBUUTT , I seem to lose money to the loose bluffy players who float the flop then raise big on the turn , then I fold if I only have top 1or2 pair whether scary or dry board . It is almost like rock/paper / scissors , an ecosystem if you may , lol. I take the money from the loose passive (very consistent gains ) then I give turn pots to the bluffy players but the bluffy players feed the fish because the fish call him down.....I know I need to call down the bluffy player more but any videos you have on the subject ? Thanks
Late to the party here, and I haven't read any comments... But, if you're asking what I'd do and the first option is "making a nitty fold," then you're inserting bias into my thought process. That being said, I'm probably calling to see what happens on the turn because Phil could already be ahead or he might be trapping with a single Q (he's a notorious trapper with weak holdings in cash games). Since three players have already folded, I have to think that at least one player holding a T has folded and some inside straight draws not holding a heart have folded.
Has anybody ever watched Phil play before? Can't put him on much worse than QT or 44. The percentage of time he does this on a draw is pretty low (he generally plays draws passively) and the chance he does it with a long Queen is even lower. This is a relatively easy fold.
@@PokerCoaching I watched all the matches against Antonio and a good chunk of the first one against Negreanu. I've also watched him on TV shows for 15 years. Yes he can bluff, but the frequency is low. He's made a succesful career out of being a nit and having the nuts. Come on you know this - you must have played against him a fair few times, you know this to be true!
I would definitely get it in against Phil in these circumstances. Phil has NO IDEA we have AA. Phil loves to slow play -- he'd almost never play QQ or even TT this way. Phil is generally following YOUR advice (which is good advice), to put money in the pot in this situation. I'd put him on AQ at this point. (Honestly wrote this on the flop, when you asked for comments -- I'll probably look like a dope, lol). EDIT: Well, I would have won. Also, Hellmuth MIGHT have folded to my jam??
No way Phil folds to a jam. He only loses to a set and there's only 1 combo each of QQ and TT, and Brad would've limped behind with 44. When Brad jams here he only has sets, overpairs and nut flush/combo draws, but given the blockers it's more likely he has overpairs/draws.
Folding to the reraise on the flop isn’t being a little bit nitty, it’s acting insane. If you’re folding aces to a reraise here you need to go play something that isn’t as scary. You would be so easy to exploit if you fold top pair to a reraise like that, wow. Good luck
@@TurKishsoulja at 2/5? There are plenty of ppl raising top pair The fact that helmuth was the raiser makes alot of difference Im not good enough to fold the flop raise. Im too much of a station i guess. Or i may just want to play helmuth in a big pot.
Phil is such an interesting character. He can be condescending, but it seems to me that he is just as hard on himself as he is on others. It's not rudeness, it's baseline. My sense is that he has a deep and abiding need to prove to HIMSELF that he is worthy. I sympathize, and hope that he finds peace with himself.
I feel like Phil would raise with just about anything here without knowing how precious hands went and what his mindset and emotional state were. He could have AQ or JJ or 1010 or just a draw. I think I err on him having a strong starting hand like AQ and go all in. He traps big and reraises based off his starting hand not the board.
First, excellent hand analysis. Easily put Phil on QT or Ax hearts. When the play is fold/call or call/raise, generally it's best to choose the more aggressive play. Here, he stacks Phil by calling and getting all in when the 4 comes on the turn.
I think Phil’s range is a lot more narrow than we are thinking here. I do not think he gets it in wider than that at all. Phil’s kind of a nit The lowest end of his range is KJ with at least one heart. Strong flush draws exactly a set of fours or QT. That’s from watching his play and to think he doesn’t c/r the majority of time with draws. This is from watching him play. I haven’t seen the results yet but I have watched him play a lot I don’t even think Phil puts QJ in brads range either because of where at the table he originally raised from. If Brad had the ace of hearts it pulls draws out of his hellmuths range and I think just would flat make this a fold . I really don’t think he bluffs here much
I’d just call and reevaluate turns- if we fold this we’re folding almost everything and even with high 30’s in equity we usually have the odds to call to a raise. If Brad got to this turn then his equity would have been much better- can’t really fold flops just because villain has a slightly strong range imo.
You made the assumption that he wouldn't limp 10-10 or QQ. I think Hellmuth would. ESP 10-10 or 44. But I do think it's a fold. Majority of time we are bad shape and if we are correct that he has a draw we are still only 65%. I think it's bad to get it in hoping to be slightly ahead at best, and completely crushed at worst.
Bro, that's what he was doing with Equilab - the math. You don't have to "think it's bad hoping...". You can just check. And by doing that you realize you can't fold unless you know your opponent isn't bluffing. That's exactly what Jonathan is telling you here.
My first instinct is he's betting on ether a flush or straight draw but its possible he has Q10 for two pair or a set. I would probably call and see the next card being cautious of any heart, king, ace or 9. Its possible he has QK or QA which would be amazing for us.
Q10 huh? Lol Well that was one of the hands I was less worried about because any pair on the board counterfeits which did happen in the rest of the video and the sets he could have are more unlikely especially QQ. I think a call in this spot still isn't bad.
if it wasnt phil id fold the raise bc small stakes dont rlly raise bad hands ever but w phil helmuth he has a more polar range and id take one more card at least and evaluate. im probably folding to a shove if it the turb brings an obvious straight or a flush. (i forget the board so maybe a flush hitting isnt possible on the turn)
against the gen pop id peel and look for a safe turn to continue. that being said i remembered this vlog and knew the outcome of this particular hand already, so saying fold woulda been dishonest.
What would You do with A♣ A♦ on the flop?
Your Stack (UTG +1): $1,330
Their Stack (UTG): $655
Pot: $100
Board: Q♥ T♥ 4♣
UTG checks, You bet £35, CO, BTN & BB fold, UTG raises to $165
A) Fold
B) Call (stack off on any safe turn)
C) Call (stack off on any turn)
D) Raise to $655 (all in)
Very tough. I'm leaning towards options b or c. I'd probably say B, but then stack off on even an unsafe turn because I'm bad and can't fold aces, so the true answer for me is C.
@@dogperson432 but then you cloud do D ...
would that no be better if you cant handel unsafe turn?
@@woodstock7799 yeah but I get to have another card to make my hand look weaker, I'm in position so he has a chance to bet again, and then he'll be more committed to call by the turn when I shove if he's behind. But what do I know as I said I am bad
I'm most likely calling the flop check raise. Then re-evaluate on the turn.
C - Call
Jam all day and twice on Sundays.
I think that’s a results oriented “good fold” by brad. Hellmuth could now own him with a check raise on just about any board and any range if he’s letting AA go that easily. He should have called and reevaluated the turn IMO.
Of course it's a bad fold. But it makes for a great story when you out Hellmuth Hellmuth.
Is Hellmuth there to be on the blog?... “I dunno, I dunno”. Haha Johnathan winning me over with dry sarcasm all over the place.
Actually happy to see Hellmuth playing a tiny game just so he can be in the vlog and give poker more exposure. Like him or not, Hellmuth is good for the game and a better person than most haters know.
🍀♥️🍀♥️
But Phil won't because is a nit. He will show up with some bizzare bluffs in good situations, but he's not bluffing this spot.
No he won't get owned.... it won't get exploited... because he won't do it that often. And he can very clearly observe an opponent trying to exploit as they would have a far too high c/r frequency
You're assuming that only Hellmuth will adjust his game after this hand but Brad won't. Why can't Brad in future hands be aware that Phil might take loose shots at him and call him down or shove with weaker holdings?
The ideal ending would be the dealer saying no rabbit hunting and pulling in the cards after Phil’s aggressive attitude towards him.
I'm feeling that Helmuth wasn't mad , he was just appreciative for the camera time .
Jam. Just in hopes I can get him to tilt.
I think Phil is so competitive and hates losing so badly, that it is possible to get him tilting even in a measly 2'/5 game. LOL
New subscriber. You promote a lot but I think the fact that you condense so much quality info into videos that are of a reasonable length makes your channel overall +EV. I really like how you show the solver during your hand analysis. Demonstrating the math of these ranges in this way is awesome
Welcome aboard!
I think its easier to make these so called crazy folds against helmuth because he makes himself so polarized and everyone knows how much he underbluffs so one pair hands are doing terrible... unless you're drawing to nutted hands I really think folding single pairs to excessive helmuth action is kinda trivial
I expect that in a great many spots, under bluffing is the correct strategy. Not GTO, but correct due to opponents who call too often, such as KQ. Phil has probably reached this conclusion, though maybe not consciously. If being abrasive causes more people to call more often, then it is easy to see how this works for him.
Not sure how, but noticed I wasn't subscribed before...you're 1 closer to 100k! Thanks for all the videos 👍
Thanks, Bill!
Empty the chamber and let the Lord decide
Since hellmuth is a master of being trappy and slow playing I would probably rip it in right on the flop. His raise to me looks like a strong draw
That was no outburst.Phil is capable of much better.
I think that's the first time I've seen PH actually give credit to good play, rather than bitching about the bad play that beat him lol
I don't see how someone as experienced as Helmuth calls QQ preflop to play it 5 ways. Same with TT. The hands he'd likely have that would be winning post-flop are QT and maybe 44. I HATE hoping for a safe draw, but these tutorials help me understand why that can be the better play. Despite that, I probably would have raised.
Phil is very trappy
This is a big problem when you are facing an opponent who doesn't care about these stakes at all. As I play min buy-in in cash game, it is easy all in for me.
This situation is especially funny because when we fold here we're insulting Phil Hellmuth, we're telling him that he's so bad at the game and he underbluffs so much that we don't have to protect ourselves against his strategy; and he's so clueless that he thinks we're showing respect to him by folding.
I thinks he new that and just tried to save face by praising Brad's play.
Actually in a world where everyone overcalls or tries to bluffcatch close to indifferent hands underbluffing is a very smart strategy. This time he looks dumb because of his persona but he's made millions doing what he does and he certainly knows generally when to be balanced or not
@@claudiomicheli3863 No he doesn't, have a nice day though
@@OsefKincaid lol
It's a great fold if brad thinks that hellmuth will respect his c-bet into the field and flat his draws at a high frequency, maybe hellmuth does just flat all his flush draws bc he thinks his fold equity is so low
That’s a nitty and exploitable fold, especially given Phil’s stack size.
Good players can make exploitable plays as long as they are few and far in between... I think he is smart enough to not bet fold aces all the time, so if you try to exploit him with bluffs you will get caught, and he will observe your way too high c/r flop frequency
After Phil limping in, he should Not have QQ and TT. Hands that beat us are 44 and QT.
Heards and straight draws are also likely like KJo, Axhh, J9.
Would Stick around, if draws komplete and he gets aggressive, get out of there
actually, he limped with it, so he does.
@@br4insful what do you mean? I said, he ist not limping QQ and TT
he limped with QT. But he's UTG playing low stakes where he could have limped QQ, TT or AA just to see the action. It is clear the game was recreational, as any smallest stake game for a high roller
The idea of folding never crossed my mind 😂 I have a lot to learn
definitely call hard to lay down aces in this spot considering he is only going to have QQ and TT very very rarely and getting it in on the 4 on the turn because that reduces combos of 44 and we beat QT now
With AA no heart I'm definitely going to value bet much bigger on the flop since we unblock all draws and top pairs. When we bet small we need to understand this means our range should be a lot wider so there's absolutely no way we're folding AA. Given the pre-flop action nobody will have QQ and it's even pretty unlikely that they will have TT. So we only lose to QT basically. I would be calling the raise and looking to call down on safer runouts (no heart, no 9). The hardest spot would be if an Ace of hearts comes as we would have top set but straights and flushes would all get there.
Call. Folding overpairs to a raise OTF is a sure fire way to get exploited. Sure, PH has QT here very often, but he could have some NFDs along with pair + draw. Everyone already folded once action got to PH, which nobody seemed to mention yet. Its a lot easier to raise on a draw when the field has already folded to BO's c-bet.
OBV, the 4 OTT is a tough card because A4❤ is def a hand PH could have so if he does jam, it would be a really tough call.
Bottom line, I think its a call to evaluate the turn. Safe cards that don't pair the board, and PH keeps firing, maybe you fold. But here I'd call.
I think he folded because he was a bit intimidated to play against Phil Helmuth. I seriously doubt if he would have folded this to any other player,
I made the same fold with aces the other day with aces on a 10, 8, 3 board. He raises massive. I know the player so well that I know he's only doing that with 2 pair minimum. I was right.
“Could he have Q4, probably not”. Haha!
I literally paused the video when Jonathan said. Here's my reasoning: $300 in pot. $600 behind. I could be wrong, but based on what I know about Phil, I doubt he's usually doing this without a set or two pair (for value) or a nut-flush or straight+flush draw here as semi-bluffs, especially after we raised in early position and bet into a multi-way pot; both of which should skew his check-raise range towards strong hands. Considering we don't have Ah that certainly opens up Phil's range for nut flush draws. How many will he have here VS sets? Hard to say, and Phil will take advantage of his reputation for being tight to make these kinds of plays as bluffs once in a while. Probably not enough to balance when he's doing it for value though, so I lean towards a fold. Nitty, yes, but you beat Phil by exploiting his tendency for making too-tight folds, not by stacking off in close positions with one pair hands, so I fold, but I could also see an argument for getting it in on a safe turn.
Quickly reraise all in like you have a big draw and want him to fold KQ. He could have AQ hearts which makes you about a 5/4 favorite. He doesn’t have QQ and that leaves 44, TT, and QTs for hands you’re behind on.
What I would do is fold here, here's why:
1.Phil knows he's strong, he didn't bet big, so if phil had a straight or flush draw, he would just call, because when it comes down to it, phil is NOT a cash game player, he's a tourney player. He loves cheap draws.
2.Phil only raises with 2 pair or better in this spot, look at what he did against Doug Polk, played the nuts in an awful way, because there was a draw, and he's too afraid to make tough decisions on post flop play.
3. Phil doesn't have AQ or KQ because he would trap. Phil LOVES to trap. If he can only beat a bluff/mediocre hand, he will trap and brag about his trapping abilities.
This is why I would fold. Phil doesn't have near enough bluffs (near enough being a number greater than 0). I know you like to talk Phil up, but he isn't a great cash game player, and he even waits to get into tourneys late so that the tough decisions will be easier.
So how what are the odds of winning with top pair if there is nothing else on the board and only undercards? What are the odds of winning with middle pair in the same situation? What about bottom pair? Can you lay the percentages out?
Run it through Equilab.
Hero iso's villain's limp with AcAd, gets called in four spots. Pot is 100. Flop is QhTh4c. Our red ace is a diamond. We bet 1/3 pot, fols to villain, who raises a hair under pot, pretty much exactly pot once you realize the pot is going to be fully raked. What do we do?
We are not going to fold. And we are not gong to raise. What does that leave? Calling, obviously. We are not going to like an ace, nine, or heart on the turn or river, and a king or jack is not much fun for us either.
Let's try to put the villain on a range, given that he open-limped (terribad) and did not 3-bet after the hero iso'ed and got called in three spots. If he has a pocket pair, it is probably jacks or less. Maybe he has QQ; a lot of old-school players distrust that hand, treating it like a medium pair rather than a premium hand. He can have a bunch of AhXh and AsXs, a lot of suited connectors, maybe as small as 54s, possibly as big as KQs (although he should be thinking of opening with a hand this strong rather than limping). Suited gappers are possible down to maybe T8s, maybe lower, if he is thinking that he's Phil Hellmuth, goddammit, and he can beat these monkeys with any remotely playable hand. But Phil is arrogant and a narcissist, and he is woefully ignorant of the modern game, but he isn't stupid, and he presumably understands position and starting hand selection.
He checked the flop, and check-raised, after the hero bet small and the other players dropped out. As I said, he does not understand the modern game, and he may very well look at that small bet as being "weak." His value range is of course going to include TT and 44 and, if he has the no-limit dinosaur's fear of QQ as a "medium" pair, QQ. It will also include hands like KQs, but likely not KQo (no-limit dinosaurs think of KQo as a "trouble hand"). I would discount AQs, but not rule it out entirely (but there is only one combo, AsQs, available because of our two ace blockers in our hand). Three combos of KQs or even JQs are more likely, He might even think that QJs is strong enough to checkraise a "weak" 1/3 pot c-bet. He has all three QTs in his range, but no Q4 or T4. His bluff range includes a whole lot of AhXh, as well as KhJh or Jh9h (for an OESFD) and maybe even K9s for a gutshot SFD. He has other KJs and J9s combos as well, and a whole lot of connectors and gappers with heart draws with backdoor straight potential as well. So he has a lot of hands to pick from to bluff with, as well as his value hands, some of which we beat.. He might even be fool enough to checkraise a hand like AT because he smells weakness in the 1/3-pot c-bet.
So we are going to call here, and likely continue with a safe turn card. Folding is out of the question, and raising is foolhardy.
probably call. RR is no option. If you think phill is only raising with effective nuts (2pair and better) maybe this is a fold. Online 10nl playing multiway I often fold these kind of raises (but i would bet bigger - The fold was easier if the original bet was bigger). I would fold to turn bet
Personally don't like the fold (except if you literally have a soul read on your opponent) for a couple of reasons. 1. As someone mentioned, you can get check-raised way too often if this is shown on the vlog. He's gotta consider that since he's vlogging he can't make some exploitative plays that other players can make since a lot of people he plays with, watch his videos as well. 2. I think a call is totally fine, we can evaluate turns. Phil can easily have KQ, QJs or even some bluffs like Kh9x, AhJx etc. 3. There are some good turns for you as well, as in this exact instance. Also, you're letting all his flush draws easily take it down without even getting there. Again, I think Brad is a much better cash player than me and obviously knows the field way better so I'm dead sure he had a massive read on Phil. But I'd still lean to calling one street cause of the reasons mentioned above. Let me know what you guys think as well. Any reasons I missed out or any reasons I missed out as to why a fold is fine here.
3:00 Noone is gonna fold a T in a 5way pot vs a 60-70% cbet? Well assuming they are all fish that might be correct, but you should definitely fold most of your Tens here vs such a cbet into so many players.
Yes and while I think Brad's fold is pretty nitty, it is actually hard to play too nitty in a 5 way pot. If you lead into 5 people and get raised you are almost always against a very strong range.
I remember seeing this hand from Brad's vlog can't remember the details. WPH rocks !
Thanks, Mark!
Peaple normally makes Fun/or Shame Hellmuth for raging. But honestly most of the players are fishes. I actually undestand him, because even tho sometimes he rages over normal situations, think about It. He studied a Lot, he puts the effort, the hours,etc and he loses to luck. I find myself on this raging spot, where Im actually a decent poker player, I make plays that not a single fish makes, I study everyday, watch your vídeos,etc. Im actually trying to improve, but Luck brings me down because I face so many fishes on tournaments and Im tired of watching them get rewarded. 2 times today I made the right choice on a hard spot in a tournament hand and the Guy got Lucky on the river and won my chips. Im playing only SnG now, tournaments are so much luck based that It doesnt matter much How much you study. I had A7 on SB, the BB goes all in, I suspected that he was Just trying to steal the blinds since he was a doing this often, so I called, and I was right, he had 10 6, and he won with a pair of 6 on the river
Thanks Jonathan! I read Phil's little book, #POSITIVITY a long time ago and really enjoyed the honesty of it. While Phil is a personality and a performer when he plays poker, any man can tilt. We've all seen him do it, and it looks very different when it's real. What I got most out of the book is that Phil is always working on is controlling his temper and being a better human. I watch this scene with Brad and I think Phil has come a long way. I've watched him in person on and off the felt, and I think for being such a poker demigod he's a good guy. Nice breakdown by the way, and thanks for your own honesty with the, "man, this is a really tough spot," and "I'm not sure what I would do here." One thing I know I would NOT do is sit down at that table.
I would just push. I don't think Phil has many monsters here. He wouldn't have limped TT or QQ, that leaves him basically with 44 and QTs which will beat us. I don't think he is so loose that he would limp/call T4s or Q4s. (Of course Brad would knew better because he has the reads.) Against QTs we have still a lot of equity. However, he can have an awful lot of draws. Flush draws, straight draws, combo draws. We block none of them. Because the pot is so big he would have difficulties to fold his draw. So I guess we are 2:1 favorite on his range, he can't fold a lot of weaker hands and then I just push it. I think this is superior to calling, because half the deck completes a flush or a straight draw. This would create a difficult situation on the turn, because he seldom has both and we would still have an equity of 30% or something if a draw arrives. It would be difficult to fold when a scare card comes except it is a flush card K, J, 9. Also another T or 4 could be bad in case he bluffs 54s or something which he could. We would be in bad shape on the turn on a lot of cards. If a safe card comes we are likely to not get a lot of money from weaker hands at the turn. So I like to getting it in at the flop when we are in good shape and he can't get out of the pot easily with his draws because he still has a lot of equity.
Edit: Ok, I was completely wrong with my assumptions. It looks like Phil is a lot less aggressive and less balanced than I thought. The video title was somewhat misleading because Phil wasn't furious at all. He was quite friendly and took it like a sportsman, I think. Phil being furious sounds completey different. Still, nice video.
Note how so many would have shoved because they're afraid of getting out drawn. You want to induce MISTAKES, not correct play by your opponents.
Love Brad! So glad two of my favorites are working together.
The best!
Since Phil can have many hands with lots of equity that won’t fold to a shove I think I would go all in on flop. I don’t want to put myself in a tough turn spot by just calling if a scare card comes. I guess the argument for calling is that Brad has position and can decide how to proceed in the hand if the turn is a brick.
Yeah but how many hands is he calling the jam with which you’re beating with AA. I think Ax of hearts maybe he calls it off, however not much else
I call and probably stack off on any safe turn. Phil is doing this play with his best hands and some good equity draws. It would be a lot better with the Ah as we would block the top draws in his range but regardless on this board im not folding unless something super scary comes.
Phil will raise a lot of Qx hands here I've seen him do it on high stakes poker but what he thinks of brad is important here as well so I think this is a clear shove based on how I've seen Phil overplay his pairs in the past.
all in and hope i'm good. turns don't really help me, and only make him more likely to fold during turn when his equity does go down (and make me less money). if he's already good, doesn't matter probably, so nothing to lose at that point.
Normally this is too exploitable to fold to check raise on flop. Have to call and see what he does on turn. That said. Since we know how Helmuth plays, we can find a tight fold. But I would really like to call one more street and see what he does on a safe card.
Against Hellmuth, the chances he has Q10 there are extremely high. It's Q10, 44, or Axhearts, period. Nothing else. But you still have to call there with all that equity and two cards to come. You can always fold the turn. If the turn is an A or a 4, as it was, you stack him.
And showing the Aces there is just inviting other people to bluff you off your overpairs all day.
If they try to bluff you off your overpairs you're gonna make a lot of money, because you're only folding since this is a 5-way flop against Phil Hellmuth.
Snap muck. Don't pay off the nit. Phil Hellmuth is not often bluffing an UTG raiser's c bet into 4 people without having AA beat. He bluffs in good bluff spots, not smart cards. He's got it here, I'd guess some kind of QT suited.
Phil getting outplayed in a cash game by someone who has played 20 years less. Sounds about right. 7 final tables though this WSOP. Interesting Jekyll and Hide dynamic.
Phil is a soul reader who misreads souls quiet often😂
And who folds aces ever on the flop?
I don't usually find myself playing this deep. So I usually get married to my AA and put it all in. I think 🤔 a fold here is read dependent. Phil usually has a big hand 👌 here, but it's such a small 🦐 game 🎯 for him is he talking it seriously 😒. Phil takes everything seriously. So it's a good read. And a good fold. If you read the opponent as splashy and aggressive it's ok to rip it all in. Sometimes the LAG has it. But I think 🤔💬 it's a positive E.V
against a LAG. The reason I don't like a call against a LAG is because there are lots of 😔 bad 😞 cards on the turn that can be used as a scare card ♦️♠️ against you.
Probably calling, maybe shoving, depends on the player dynamic, and able etc…
I think Phil can have sets here, but I think he has many more hands that we beat, such as AJs(hearts), J9s, KQs. Call planning to call down on safe runouts.
Call - get it in on safe turns.
I’d either re raise or jam depending how much the player and I have
It’s hard to say what I would have done in that spot... everybody says what they would’ve done, but if I’m going to try and be honest.
I probably would have seen the turn and on a safer board offer a bad price to the draws as that seems like Phil would be more committed after that flop bet. This was a good fold too
My choice is to call the raise. Phil probably has a drawing hand from which I can get away later, if this board connects any further.
Analyzing this from brads perspective is one thing but what about phil raising so much to 165 i mean he raise to 105 he has brad in and phil thinks he made the right raise after the turn comes a 4 he feels better but clearly it is enough to get aces to fold is this the wrong move by phil? What hands are calling him when aces arent or just sets aces and kings? Maybe ak of hearts
If stacks were 655 on flop, for Brad to rip it in or call it off, he would be putting in 620 more to be in a pot of 1390, so 44.6% equity reqd, not 38% (about 8.25) ?? Makes a big difference. Hard to have that much equity unless Hellmuth's range is chock full of draws or weak top pairs , and it is Phil Hellmuth. Draws like KJ (without a heart) shouldnt raise this amount because if he is shoved on, he would need to call another 490 to win 1390 (35% equity reqd), so would be forced to either put a decent chunk in then fold or make a -EV call, so it would be a horrible way to play a decent equity draw, when he could've just called the flop getting like 5 to 1 direct odds . same for small flush draws - if shoved on leaves him facing a a call which is breakeven even if he wins every time he makes his flush, which is far from certain. So he 'should' be only raising this amount with draws that can call it off, or junk he can easily fold, - and its likely just draws that can call it off - Ahxh , KJhh K9hh J9hh (if KJs is even in his limping range). V that sort of range, plus value hands QT and 44, AA is more like 37%.
Nooo i just got spoilered on the high stakes duel 😂
Im really curious how it would have played out if Brad would have made a bigger flop bet. Does Phil just call? or does he still raise and Brad is forced to call because hes invested now?
I think the advantage of betting small on the flop, is to call a raise - I think that's why you'd do it. So I am coin-flipping between flat and plow... Maybe flat calling has the advantage - in that you;re keeping his entire range in play, and not just continuing against the top of his range - 2 pair, sets and combo draws... So this time - Call.
Without a heart, I jam. With the heart, it depends on my opponent. With all of the poker I've watched from Phil, I'd say this is a fold, but it's a tough spot
but do you have the commitment to go with it?
Not sure about your comment that a semi-bluff raise is targetting QJ/KQ, wouldn't those hands actually be better bluff catchers because they block QT and QQ? Obviously in this case the aces would've sucked out whereas KQ wouldn't, but I feel like it's worth noting that regardless
Am I the only person surprised to see Phil playing $2-5?
He plays with the fans from time to time.
Continue the great work! Enjoy your videos.
Thanks!
I wouldn’t fold against Helmuth even if I had KJ. But seriously now, I’ve paused the video and I’m pondering what to do when Phil Helmuth raises me almost 4 times my bet… The only thing I can think of is that he has either a very weak Q9 and is trying to muscle his way just because he thinks other are scared of him or he has what he always has here when he appears on televised high stakes games, and that is a K high flush draw. So I think I’m just gonna chug it in now and face the music.
Yeah, I still wouldn’t have folded 🤦🏻♂️
Nice video , I have situations where this comes up a lot . I play kinda nitty and make plenty of money from the loose passive crowd , as in plenty of calls pre flop and either they fold to C-bet or they show up with a weaker hand by the river ...BBUUTT , I seem to lose money to the loose bluffy players who float the flop then raise big on the turn , then I fold if I only have top 1or2 pair whether scary or dry board . It is almost like rock/paper / scissors , an ecosystem if you may , lol. I take the money from the loose passive (very consistent gains ) then I give turn pots to the bluffy players but the bluffy players feed the fish because the fish call him down.....I know I need to call down the bluffy player more but any videos you have on the subject ? Thanks
Call for sure, probably let him fire again on the turn and evaluate as we go along.
I would probably shove to end action and hopefully see a fold or retain value. I can also see calling and folding to bad cards.
Late to the party here, and I haven't read any comments... But, if you're asking what I'd do and the first option is "making a nitty fold," then you're inserting bias into my thought process. That being said, I'm probably calling to see what happens on the turn because Phil could already be ahead or he might be trapping with a single Q (he's a notorious trapper with weak holdings in cash games). Since three players have already folded, I have to think that at least one player holding a T has folded and some inside straight draws not holding a heart have folded.
which one vlog is this??? I can't find it ;(
Has anybody ever watched Phil play before? Can't put him on much worse than QT or 44. The percentage of time he does this on a draw is pretty low (he generally plays draws passively) and the chance he does it with a long Queen is even lower. This is a relatively easy fold.
...you must have missed all of High Stakes Duel.
@@PokerCoaching I watched all the matches against Antonio and a good chunk of the first one against Negreanu. I've also watched him on TV shows for 15 years. Yes he can bluff, but the frequency is low. He's made a succesful career out of being a nit and having the nuts. Come on you know this - you must have played against him a fair few times, you know this to be true!
This was 3 years ago but I would have called the flop
I'm prob folding everything other than sets and crazy combo draws
Was actually shocked PH just had two pair. he's a nit
"Dodge bullets baby" is Mike Matusow, good sir
I just subbed mate. I love poker and would love a thousand bucks and some coaching.
Thanks for the sub!
I jam all in. Hellmuth doesn't have a set. maybe a flush draw. Maybe a KQ. Maybe a KJ of Hearts. I'm ripping it in right here. Attack phil.
I would definitely get it in against Phil in these circumstances. Phil has NO IDEA we have AA. Phil loves to slow play -- he'd almost never play QQ or even TT this way. Phil is generally following YOUR advice (which is good advice), to put money in the pot in this situation. I'd put him on AQ at this point. (Honestly wrote this on the flop, when you asked for comments -- I'll probably look like a dope, lol). EDIT: Well, I would have won. Also, Hellmuth MIGHT have folded to my jam??
No way Phil folds to a jam. He only loses to a set and there's only 1 combo each of QQ and TT, and Brad would've limped behind with 44. When Brad jams here he only has sets, overpairs and nut flush/combo draws, but given the blockers it's more likely he has overpairs/draws.
@@chrisbaker7760 Probably not with his two pair. But Phil is known for his hero folds.
Folding to the reraise on the flop isn’t being a little bit nitty, it’s acting insane. If you’re folding aces to a reraise here you need to go play something that isn’t as scary. You would be so easy to exploit if you fold top pair to a reraise like that, wow. Good luck
Only factor is it was Helmuth.
nobody is raising top pair against you here lol
@@TurKishsoulja at 2/5? There are plenty of ppl raising top pair
The fact that helmuth was the raiser makes alot of difference
Im not good enough to fold the flop raise. Im too much of a station i guess. Or i may just want to play helmuth in a big pot.
That's why Brad is a poker vlogger and you're a nobody. Like Hellmuth said, everyone of us would have paid him off, but Brad played it smart.
@@pwner332 aweful bold statement.
Intro: mystery opponent
Title: Phil HELLMUTH Was FURIOUS At This PLAY By Brad OWEN!
Very mysterious indeed
Call, Check-jam any non heart turn
Phil is such an interesting character. He can be condescending, but it seems to me that he is just as hard on himself as he is on others. It's not rudeness, it's baseline.
My sense is that he has a deep and abiding need to prove to HIMSELF that he is worthy. I sympathize, and hope that he finds peace with himself.
I think the tell was in the way he said, "rrrrrAISE it." It didn't seem to apply to the hands that Brad could beat.
saw this hand already. fold is good if opponent only is raising with 2 pair+
Hellmuth talks to Matasow about playing tight. Fold Fold Fold
I feel like Phil would raise with just about anything here without knowing how precious hands went and what his mindset and emotional state were. He could have AQ or JJ or 1010 or just a draw. I think I err on him having a strong starting hand like AQ and go all in. He traps big and reraises based off his starting hand not the board.
First, excellent hand analysis. Easily put Phil on QT or Ax hearts. When the play is fold/call or call/raise, generally it's best to choose the more aggressive play. Here, he stacks Phil by calling and getting all in when the 4 comes on the turn.
I don't see Hellmuth being furious. He was actually very respectful of the play.
I think Phil’s range is a lot more narrow than we are thinking here. I do not think he gets it in wider than that at all. Phil’s kind of a nit
The lowest end of his range is KJ with at least one heart. Strong flush draws exactly a set of fours or QT. That’s from watching his play and to think he doesn’t c/r the majority of time with draws. This is from watching him play. I haven’t seen the results yet but I have watched him play a lot
I don’t even think Phil puts QJ in brads range either because of where at the table he originally raised from. If Brad had the ace of hearts it pulls draws out of his hellmuths range and I think just would flat make this a fold . I really don’t think he bluffs here much
great video, laying down overpairs can be hard.
I’d just call and reevaluate turns- if we fold this we’re folding almost everything and even with high 30’s in equity we usually have the odds to call to a raise.
If Brad got to this turn then his equity would have been much better- can’t really fold flops just because villain has a slightly strong range imo.
thats why no one will ever know your name !! Alexander the great lol
I’m pretty sure the old school zoom grinders know who I am at least, used to play like a maniac 😂
Call flop, check turn with intention of calling it off on any turn. I lose to all value I am calling off to, but Hellmuth might bluff the turn.
You made the assumption that he wouldn't limp 10-10 or QQ. I think Hellmuth would. ESP 10-10 or 44.
But I do think it's a fold. Majority of time we are bad shape and if we are correct that he has a draw we are still only 65%. I think it's bad to get it in hoping to be slightly ahead at best, and completely crushed at worst.
Bro, that's what he was doing with Equilab - the math. You don't have to "think it's bad hoping...". You can just check. And by doing that you realize you can't fold unless you know your opponent isn't bluffing. That's exactly what Jonathan is telling you here.
My first instinct is he's betting on ether a flush or straight draw but its possible he has Q10 for two pair or a set. I would probably call and see the next card being cautious of any heart, king, ace or 9. Its possible he has QK or QA which would be amazing for us.
Q10 huh? Lol Well that was one of the hands I was less worried about because any pair on the board counterfeits which did happen in the rest of the video and the sets he could have are more unlikely especially QQ. I think a call in this spot still isn't bad.
If you decide you’re going to fold for crying out loud don’t show your folding range.
if it wasnt phil id fold the raise bc small stakes dont rlly raise bad hands ever but w phil helmuth he has a more polar range and id take one more card at least and evaluate. im probably folding to a shove if it the turb brings an obvious straight or a flush. (i forget the board so maybe a flush hitting isnt possible on the turn)
I thought Brad said this was at the Orleans when he posted it, not the Rio. But maybe not.
against the gen pop id peel and look for a safe turn to continue. that being said i remembered this vlog and knew the outcome of this particular hand already, so saying fold woulda been dishonest.
Rather have seen Phil go cookoo on that turn after a push. As stated, Phil would've folded.
Hey John huge fan. How do we enter to win the private coaching or the 1k? Thanks
Hey Tommy. PokerCoaching.com/100k - good luck!!
would b) call and (probably) stack off on blank turns
B Phil folds everything we beat if we jam