@@the_letti0584 I wouldn't say "deeply" understand since this was a short video lol, but I did comprehend the formulas he showed. Which lead me to watch even more videos on just that alone and have a pretty good understanding now. I already knew the basic principle behind the main purpose of this video but didn't know why. Now I do
10:15 But if the 1800 KV Motor has twice the turns on the stator the magnet field will also twice as strong = more torque per amp Also the bigger Motor use 4x more Energy and has also much more losses overall to double the torque. Very bad efficency here. For drag brake i would recommend a sensred motor. I had one from Graupner 15 Years ago.. The Braking was like a brake disc ! Even still standing
True that more turns provide more torque per amp. The issue is that it will lose amps per volt "faster" when increasing the number of turns. Thus less torque per volt when increasing the turns. If one stick to the same volts per turn the motor will theoretically behave the same, no matter if it's one or a hundred turns...
This is why it Nvr makes sense to me when people would say low KV motors are best for crawling ,Theory Busted once again !! I always run higher KV motors, gear down and volt ⚡️ up as in 3 maybe 4s nothing higher needed for crawling ..... Great video as always John.....
This reminds me of when you do classes at USTE using the back door of the truck as your board. lol Excellent shirt, btw!!! Good work leaving the mistakes in. I find now that I'm in my 40s, my brain is all cluttered with sh!t and I make simple mistakes like that rushing. Always check your work.
I just love these videos from you, I have to admit that I can't really comprehend everything but I love to listen to people who know what they're talking about
Seems like you know a lot about this topic so you may be able to help me: twice the kv doesnt just give 4 times more torque but consumes for times more amperes, right?
Great stuff! Where I get lost is when it comes to straight axle vs portal axle. I have referred to your KV chart a thousand times on your website. It has been a lifesaver; well, motor saver anyway.
Excellent overview of how that works out. I'd be very interested in actually seeing it in action. Same gearing, different motors then matching the gearing to the higher KV/Turn. I won't run brushless in my crawler. I like playing around with the brushed motors too much.
Allow me, long story short, higher KV motor has higher power output (assuming other factors are the same, size , sup voltage etc), therefore, it can provide higher torque on the wheels after all the gears. With the down side of more power consumption.
Very nice, my rig was using 55T 540 motor, 56T spur gear and 13T pinion, change it to 35T 540 motor, 87 spur gear and 13T pinion it's really awesome, now i can crawl uphill better, better torque, better low end speed control, i haven't test for runtime yet, but overall very nice... Edit : After i try several times, i feel my runtime hasn't changed much, i didn't count my runtime, but approximately 2 - 4 hours before change, and almost the same after that, very nice
I know on a couple videos ago I commented about being worried that my 1000kv wouldn’t be good enough for my TRX4 2021 bronco. I’ve recently purchased a 1000kv V2 revolver and a castle mamba x. Drove it today and wow what a difference. I set my tune up the exact same way you did in your mamba x tuning video (with the addition of 2nd gear being rock race mode) and my bronco is a whole new animal now. It’s doing lines crawling that I used to have to bump before. So far I think the only downside is it’s overall slower so second gear doesn’t go as fast as I want it to but the control in first now is worlds better. I’m only on 2s lipo as well. I imagine it will be even more improved with a 3s battery and some gearing changes? Thanks for the explanation and video!!
I feel like this is in response to the email I sent you the other day. Great information man, I really appreciate it. I still don't know what revolver to pick to match with my sw4 but I'm thinking I'll go with a higher kv and a 9t pinion.
Great video! I’ve watched it multiple times. One thought I had is that your demonstration highlights what these motors are capable of with unlimited power. Based on the formula Torque = Kt × Current, where Kt = 1/Kv, the lower KV motor will always produce more torque per amp. However, since Mechanical Power = Torque × Angular Velocity, I can see why you emphasize that the higher KV motor is more powerful overall at higher speeds. At what point do you think it makes sense to prioritize a higher KV motor over one with greater torque?
Getting back into crawling after a 15year or so absence. Just bought a Phoenix portal with mambaX and CC slate 2850KV sensored. When you say hear down I’m assuming you mean on the motor since that’s the easiest. So what gearing would you recommend as well as Lipo. I am so not up on the Lipo stuff yet. Would really like to hear your advise on which battery setup to use. I’m also needing you to stock the 800 servo or should I go with the 650? Thanks.
Very cool I did this with my Drones ran 6S on 4S motors and just set the endpoints down to 66% to get it where it wouldn’t pull too many amps but get the extra torque I love it as long as you can say you’re in points you can do this with any brushless motor I found out so I always just buy high KV
Do you have a break down of your crawl master and trail master motors? I am curious what the plastic piece is at the back of the motor just inside the cooling holes. I have a trail master 21t in a stock geared bomber. Using it as a crawler. I smoke checked something in the motor. Trying to figure out what smoked.
I’m one of the ones that use to think the lower the kv the stronger the torque😅 part of the learning process I guess but good to have people take the time to explain it even tho I’m super bad at math I think I understood good enough now 😎🙌
Nice Theory of Voltage/Amps and Torque comparison, but you mentioned that you would have to show the difference between the Voltage Up Gear Down on the Rock's... That's a Great idea and we're all waiting for that Video too... ✌🤠👍 HFLPRCing =Having Fun Laughing Playing and RCing 👍😎👍 AOAH =Association of Addicted Hobbiest 🙏 SSPH =Stay Safe and Play Healthy My Friend
I miss my cobalt 10 puller motor. That was hands down the smoothest most bananas powerful crawler motor Ive ever run. Easily twisting off axles and causing general mayhem to the chadsis and driveline of any irresponsible throttle application. I would have that motor again 1000 times.
This is a great video thank you! One thing I didn't get out of it though, how does this affect you battery? May be a dumb question lol. Assuming I'm using a 3s battery, would a 1800kv with higher gearing use more juice than a 3800kv with lower gearing?
Depends on how you drive. If super easy, runtime will be about the same. If you drive hard, the higher kv will have less time because you are using the extra power available. Longest runtime would be 1000kv at 40:1 however. But wheelspeed is half as much.
I dont know what the exact terms you are asking about mean in relationship to the gear ratio (wether undergearing means too high or too low gearing) but i may still be able to answer your question… Anyway: having too high gear ratio e.g. 400:1 basically means that your car isn’t driving as fast as you’d like it to (for example a crawler you want to go on walks with should be at least as fast as you walk). This will give you way more torque compared to normal gearing and affect the esc in no negative ways. On the other hand a gear ratio of 5:1 will make your car go crazy fast while taking away a lot of torque and heating up the esc more (shouldnt be a problem in crawlers but fast cars may turn off their esc when it gets too hot). Having too low gear ratio puts the motor under a bit more pressure but a good motor shouldnt take any damage from that. If you have any questions on what gearing to use in order to get the right speed for your vehicle go ahead and ask
Huh? Lol. Little over my head, but I get the concept. So, gearing down would mean using a smaller pinion (less teeth)? How do you know how much to gear down? Is it by percentage of the less teeth?
late to the party (got into the hobby not long after this video was posted, so it took me a while to find something like this, discussing it in more technical terms :)) aaanwyway, now that i understand things a bit better, i have a technical question tangentially related to this one: does it matter WHERE you do the gear down? to try and be more precise, i mean, are there any pros or cons to gear down by going to a smaller pinion, compared to let's say changing the transfer gears, or if you take something like the SCX24, getting a higher tooth worm gear, if the final gear ration at the wheels will be the same, roughly? intuitively, it feels like the only difference would be maybe in where you'd have more strain in the driveline? another question that popped in my mind: how about a discussion about different gear (particularly pinion gear) materials, their pros and cons? i feel like there are probably some misconceptions about those in this hobby (modern plastics are pretty good, and that hardened steel gear probably isn't as hard as you think...)? love your videos! keep em coming :)
Johnny! Nice explanation. Hobby shops have said the opposite of what you showed. If this can be applied to brushless, can we use the “kv” number and substitute “T” for turns on a brushed motor? If so, who killed Tu~Pac?
So other than not having the ability to gear lower, why would one ever choose a lower Kv motor? I run your CRAWLMASTER EXPERT 540 13T. If I can gear down enough, why not run a 540 buggy race motor (and why don't you sell them!)?
Someone would choose to run a lower kv motor cause (ratio between different kv-motors) squared is the factor for extra energy comsumption… as showm in the video: ratio between 3600kv/1800kv=2. 2 squared=4. if you look closely into the data about i (which is the amount of amperes) you can see exactly what ive written and he also explained why you have to calculate just how ive shown you (because of heat creation inside the motor…) This basically means that twice the kv gives you 4 times more torque and divides your runtime by 4.
In brushed, going faster than what i offer does actually harm torque . I'll have to make a vid on it. I brushless, over 3500kv becomes hard to gear down enough for and the esc/ battery take more beating.
This is all assuming that you can achieve the correct gear ratio with the desired kv. It would be nice to see trans ratios a bit lower overall with a 15t or so pinion so that you more range of gearing.
@@helmydewa yes you can do that. There is a lot you can do, but it is a lot easier to pick the right KV engine that suits your vehicle and how you want to drive it 🙂 Then if you are not happy with it, you could do what you mentioned 👍🙂
Im bought your puller pro v2 2200kv and mamba x for my vanquish phoenix on 3s. If I were to switch to 4s what gear ratio would you suggest? Given stock is 52t spur 15t pinion 32 pitch, I have a spare 56/13 from my wraith. Would just the pinion change make difference? But man is it a sweet setup with the phoenix. Feels so similar but way different then my br-xl and crawlmaster 550. First brushless motor 😆 love all your products next is my shv650 👍🏻
I know that there is a lot of stuff that affects it but lets add to that calculation battery, if let's say 1000mah lipo will give a 1h run time on 1800kv@20:1 then whats can be expected from 3600kv@40:1?
@@johnrobholmes your left finger on the radio doesnt directly control the torque but the wheel speed. A 3600kv motor will deliver 4 times more torque while consuming 4 times more electric energy(= solid number of voltes multiplied by he amount of amperes). If we’re not taking in count that you might have to give more throttle with the lower kv motor to reach the necessary torque to conquer the obstacle it‘s clear to say that the higher kv motor consumes 4 times as much energy so your runtime will drop from 1 hour to 1/4 hour aka 15 minutes. Idk how a 1800kv brushless or a 3600kv brushless motor actually runs in crawlers (ive only used brushless in my faster cars) but if the 1800kv performs at least as well as brushed stock crawler motors i can recommend to use a 1800kv motor for trail or scale crawling. If you’re more into extreme rock crawling the 1800kv will do it aswell but the 3600kv will do it way more smoothly (while dividing your runtime by 4). The only reason i see for upgrading to a high kv motor in crawlers are competition crawlers (or just wanting to keep your throttle finger at the same spot while climbing extreme obstacles). As I’ve said: idk how much torque a 1800 brushless motor delivers but in every phrase i wrote i was just expecting it to deliver at least as much torque as the cheap stock motors
@@the_letti0584 watts are watts and the battery isnt changing. At 4mph both rigs use the same energy, more or less. It isn't until loading down that the faster motor can pull more torque. So, Unless you go binding the rig down harder, the faster motor with more gear down does not affect runtime very much.
Runtime is not affected much unless you bind it down more and use the available torque. On the average, I do not lose much runtime besides what a twitchy finger and sometimes harder acceleration cause. Now, if we threw in the faster motor without regear the runtime would go down a lot. More wheelspeed? Always less runtime.
Will this also be true in the bashing world with say and 800 kV running a one to One ratio versus say a little smaller can 1100 KV running a one to One. Five ratio
Okay, but this is all predicated on not changing voltage. If you KV down, you're supposed to keep the gearing the same and bump the voltage up in order to gain efficiency and runtime. Lower KV, same gearing, same voltage = lower temps, lower top speed, less draw, longer run time, same *(?)* acceleration Lower KV, adjusted gearing, same voltage = similar temps, same/similar top speed, similar/more draw, shorter/similar run time, poorer acceleration (lower torque) Lower KV, same gearing, higher voltage = lower temps *(?),* same/similar top speed, similar/less draw, longer run time, same/better acceleration Lower KV, adjusted gearing, higher voltage = similar/higher temps, higher top speed, similar/more draw, similar/shorter run time, same/poorer acceleration *(?)*
We have to keep something constant for sake of comparison. If we doubled the voltage for the slower motor and didn't change gearing, the example would basically be "how much voltage drop in your esc assuming it can handle twice the voltage" and nothing more. Since most escs are ran near their voltage rating, it's not a useful demonstration to showcase that lower kv motors don't actually produce more torque.
@@HolmesHobbies Doesn't necessarily have to be double, and my proposal in general is more for people looking to either select their power system from scratch, or start over completely.
Im afraid the math/physics part oversimplified the real model of a motor. Particularly the part how you derived the torque is fundamentally inaccurate.
I really enjoyed this one ☝️ to the end “. I still have a crush on my math teacher 👩🏫 in the ninth grade “. I work on her car and auto mechanics too ! I can still remember her give me the keys 🔑 thank you 😊 look at her radiator 😵🤘🤙
I don’t get it. Don’t volting up and gear down make ur crawler has tone of torque twist? In climbing steep hills, this is going to make the rig flip, right?
@Bradon881 any time you make more torque or power, yes torque twist gets worse. If it's making your rig peel off the rock you need to start changing suspension geometry or CG
So it's like running 4.56 gears in a 300hp 4 cyl. Vs 4.56 in a 300hp V8 in a super simplified nutshell yes they'll have more torque but the V8 won't have to work as hard under the same conditions
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
This may seem odd to you, but I really appreciate you leaving in your math mistake. We are just people. Have a good day bud.
I learned more watching this video than I did an entire year of geometry in high school. Thanks, John! lol. Great video as always man
But did you deeply understand the math or just got the main point of the video?
@@the_letti0584 I wouldn't say "deeply" understand since this was a short video lol, but I did comprehend the formulas he showed. Which lead me to watch even more videos on just that alone and have a pretty good understanding now. I already knew the basic principle behind the main purpose of this video but didn't know why. Now I do
10:15 But if the 1800 KV Motor has twice the turns on the stator the magnet field will also twice as strong = more torque per amp
Also the bigger Motor use 4x more Energy and has also much more losses overall to double the torque. Very bad efficency here.
For drag brake i would recommend a sensred motor. I had one from Graupner 15 Years ago.. The Braking was like a brake disc ! Even still standing
True that more turns provide more torque per amp. The issue is that it will lose amps per volt "faster" when increasing the number of turns. Thus less torque per volt when increasing the turns.
If one stick to the same volts per turn the motor will theoretically behave the same, no matter if it's one or a hundred turns...
This is why it Nvr makes sense to me when people would say low KV motors are best for crawling ,Theory Busted once again !! I always run higher KV motors, gear down and volt ⚡️ up as in 3 maybe 4s nothing higher needed for crawling ..... Great video as always John.....
This reminds me of when you do classes at USTE using the back door of the truck as your board. lol Excellent shirt, btw!!! Good work leaving the mistakes in. I find now that I'm in my 40s, my brain is all cluttered with sh!t and I make simple mistakes like that rushing. Always check your work.
I just love these videos from you, I have to admit that I can't really comprehend everything but I love to listen to people who know what they're talking about
Thank you for introducing the world to the basics of engine matching and that you shared a piece of your secret knowledge 😉😃👍
Seems like you know a lot about this topic so you may be able to help me: twice the kv doesnt just give 4 times more torque but consumes for times more amperes, right?
@@the_letti0584 no
Some years ago I put a Puller Pro 3500kv and 3s in my RRP gear upgraded SCX10 Rubicon and it blows my mind everytime I dust it off.
This was a great one John.
Which is older? The Casio or the T-shirt? 😄
Thank you for this. I like FDR around 100:1 for this exact reason. The only consequence is shorter runtimes on smaller mah packs
Great stuff! Where I get lost is when it comes to straight axle vs portal axle. I have referred to your KV chart a thousand times on your website. It has been a lifesaver; well, motor saver anyway.
Excellent overview of how that works out. I'd be very interested in actually seeing it in action. Same gearing, different motors then matching the gearing to the higher KV/Turn. I won't run brushless in my crawler. I like playing around with the brushed motors too much.
Allow me, long story short, higher KV motor has higher power output (assuming other factors are the same, size , sup voltage etc), therefore, it can provide higher torque on the wheels after all the gears. With the down side of more power consumption.
Another excellent video! Always love to have a Master Class from you John. Thank you. :)
Love the shirt. We definitely old skool
Very nice, my rig was using 55T 540 motor, 56T spur gear and 13T pinion, change it to 35T 540 motor, 87 spur gear and 13T pinion it's really awesome, now i can crawl uphill better, better torque, better low end speed control, i haven't test for runtime yet, but overall very nice...
Edit :
After i try several times, i feel my runtime hasn't changed much, i didn't count my runtime, but approximately 2 - 4 hours before change, and almost the same after that, very nice
I know on a couple videos ago I commented about being worried that my 1000kv wouldn’t be good enough for my TRX4 2021 bronco. I’ve recently purchased a 1000kv V2 revolver and a castle mamba x. Drove it today and wow what a difference. I set my tune up the exact same way you did in your mamba x tuning video (with the addition of 2nd gear being rock race mode) and my bronco is a whole new animal now. It’s doing lines crawling that I used to have to bump before. So far I think the only downside is it’s overall slower so second gear doesn’t go as fast as I want it to but the control in first now is worlds better. I’m only on 2s lipo as well. I imagine it will be even more improved with a 3s battery and some gearing changes? Thanks for the explanation and video!!
just go 3s, it will be perfect!
I had to take off my socks to keep up with the math on this one!! LOL!!! Thanks for the explanation John!
I feel like this is in response to the email I sent you the other day. Great information man, I really appreciate it. I still don't know what revolver to pick to match with my sw4 but I'm thinking I'll go with a higher kv and a 9t pinion.
Thanks a bunch for all this knowledge.
Finally, this is exactly what I'm looking for, thank you Holmes, really appreciate it
Great explanation sir. kv up, Gear in down.
Fascinating! Would definitely like to see this in a practical sense. With battery consumption and performance in 2x like for like rigs. 👍 👍👊
That would be truly awesome
Love the tech tips! Thanks for breaking it down, it all makes sense now!
geeking, i love it
i use a trailmaster 21t with a 9t pinion on my trx4, a lot of torque
which is why my 14lb trx is a ripper.... 2800kv/3s/smallest pinon(9)
Great video! I’ve watched it multiple times. One thought I had is that your demonstration highlights what these motors are capable of with unlimited power. Based on the formula Torque = Kt × Current, where Kt = 1/Kv, the lower KV motor will always produce more torque per amp. However, since Mechanical Power = Torque × Angular Velocity, I can see why you emphasize that the higher KV motor is more powerful overall at higher speeds. At what point do you think it makes sense to prioritize a higher KV motor over one with greater torque?
Could you do a deep dive on the flux capacitor, this class room scene reminded me of my apprenticeship as an electrician.
Great stuff keep it coming
Getting back into crawling after a 15year or so absence. Just bought a Phoenix portal with mambaX and CC slate 2850KV sensored. When you say hear down I’m assuming you mean on the motor since that’s the easiest. So what gearing would you recommend as well as Lipo. I am so not up on the Lipo stuff yet. Would really like to hear your advise on which battery setup to use. I’m also needing you to stock the 800 servo or should I go with the 650? Thanks.
Very interesting video and information. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very cool I did this with my Drones ran 6S on 4S motors and just set the endpoints down to 66% to get it where it wouldn’t pull too many amps but get the extra torque I love it as long as you can say you’re in points you can do this with any brushless motor I found out so I always just buy high KV
Not a good idea in a crawler, will smoke the esc. Use 100% epa and gear down instead.
@@HolmesHobbies yes sir
Thanks, i feel vindicated for having been criticized for doing exactly that with my crawlers, KV up and Gear down !
Do you have a break down of your crawl master and trail master motors? I am curious what the plastic piece is at the back of the motor just inside the cooling holes. I have a trail master 21t in a stock geared bomber. Using it as a crawler. I smoke checked something in the motor. Trying to figure out what smoked.
I’m one of the ones that use to think the lower the kv the stronger the torque😅 part of the learning process I guess but good to have people take the time to explain it even tho I’m super bad at math I think I understood good enough now 😎🙌
Great explanation 👍🏾
I've rotated left through memory.
Like button selected algorithms stirred.
Nice breakdown
This was great. Thanks
"I'm gonna get into the weeds here."
_Wheeeeeee weeds time!_
Dangit. John just voodoo mathed all of that bought his 1800kv pullerpro's into going back and getting 3500s.
Just a reminder: using a 3600kv compared to using a 1800kv motor will divide your runtime by 4! Just make sure it’s worth it
We don't always neeeed the extra torque...
Nice Theory of Voltage/Amps and Torque comparison, but you mentioned that you would have to show the difference between the Voltage Up Gear Down on the Rock's... That's a Great idea and we're all waiting for that Video too...
✌🤠👍 HFLPRCing =Having Fun Laughing Playing and RCing
👍😎👍 AOAH =Association of Addicted Hobbiest
🙏 SSPH =Stay Safe and Play Healthy My Friend
I miss my cobalt 10 puller motor. That was hands down the smoothest most bananas powerful crawler motor Ive ever run. Easily twisting off axles and causing general mayhem to the chadsis and driveline of any irresponsible throttle application. I would have that motor again 1000 times.
This is a great video thank you! One thing I didn't get out of it though, how does this affect you battery? May be a dumb question lol. Assuming I'm using a 3s battery, would a 1800kv with higher gearing use more juice than a 3800kv with lower gearing?
Depends on how you drive. If super easy, runtime will be about the same.
If you drive hard, the higher kv will have less time because you are using the extra power available.
Longest runtime would be 1000kv at 40:1 however. But wheelspeed is half as much.
Hi John, so why do larger scale vehicles use lower kv motors if higher kv ones have more torque? Thanks
Can you explain the difference between undergearing and overgearing a brushed and brushless and how affects motor performance and esc's.
I dont know what the exact terms you are asking about mean in relationship to the gear ratio (wether undergearing means too high or too low gearing) but i may still be able to answer your question… Anyway: having too high gear ratio e.g. 400:1 basically means that your car isn’t driving as fast as you’d like it to (for example a crawler you want to go on walks with should be at least as fast as you walk). This will give you way more torque compared to normal gearing and affect the esc in no negative ways. On the other hand a gear ratio of 5:1 will make your car go crazy fast while taking away a lot of torque and heating up the esc more (shouldnt be a problem in crawlers but fast cars may turn off their esc when it gets too hot).
Having too low gear ratio puts the motor under a bit more pressure but a good motor shouldnt take any damage from that.
If you have any questions on what gearing to use in order to get the right speed for your vehicle go ahead and ask
Cool, thanks
Bob rocks would have just drawn bird over that math mistake 😂
Huh? Lol. Little over my head, but I get the concept. So, gearing down would mean using a smaller pinion (less teeth)? How do you know how much to gear down? Is it by percentage of the less teeth?
late to the party (got into the hobby not long after this video was posted, so it took me a while to find something like this, discussing it in more technical terms :))
aaanwyway, now that i understand things a bit better, i have a technical question tangentially related to this one:
does it matter WHERE you do the gear down? to try and be more precise, i mean, are there any pros or cons to gear down by going to a smaller pinion, compared to let's say changing the transfer gears, or if you take something like the SCX24, getting a higher tooth worm gear, if the final gear ration at the wheels will be the same, roughly? intuitively, it feels like the only difference would be maybe in where you'd have more strain in the driveline?
another question that popped in my mind: how about a discussion about different gear (particularly pinion gear) materials, their pros and cons? i feel like there are probably some misconceptions about those in this hobby (modern plastics are pretty good, and that hardened steel gear probably isn't as hard as you think...)?
love your videos! keep em coming :)
Would really be interesting to know the torque difference in 540 vs 550can or 540L with same kv
I might have already filmed this...
How do I obtain parts for a 40:1 gear down condition? Is it possible to reduce the pinion, spur, and differential to get to the 40:1 gear ratio?
This was just a thought experiment to show that lower kv does not produce more torque in most situations
Johnny! Nice explanation. Hobby shops have said the opposite of what you showed. If this can be applied to brushless, can we use the “kv” number and substitute “T” for turns on a brushed motor? If so, who killed Tu~Pac?
It works on brushed until about 21t550 or 27t 540, then brush saturation makes them lose torque
@@HolmesHobbies nice info, thank you
So other than not having the ability to gear lower, why would one ever choose a lower Kv motor? I run your CRAWLMASTER EXPERT 540 13T. If I can gear down enough, why not run a 540 buggy race motor (and why don't you sell them!)?
Brushless
There is a point where more wheelspeed or more gear down isn't wanted or possible
Someone would choose to run a lower kv motor cause (ratio between different kv-motors) squared is the factor for extra energy comsumption… as showm in the video: ratio between 3600kv/1800kv=2. 2 squared=4. if you look closely into the data about i (which is the amount of amperes) you can see exactly what ive written and he also explained why you have to calculate just how ive shown you (because of heat creation inside the motor…) This basically means that twice the kv gives you 4 times more torque and divides your runtime by 4.
In brushed, going faster than what i offer does actually harm torque . I'll have to make a vid on it.
I brushless, over 3500kv becomes hard to gear down enough for and the esc/ battery take more beating.
This is all assuming that you can achieve the correct gear ratio with the desired kv. It would be nice to see trans ratios a bit lower overall with a 15t or so pinion so that you more range of gearing.
Awesome breakdown 👍😃 Although it is obvious 🙂 Good you mention to check how low you can gear down on your vehicle 🙂
Indeed, there are limits on gear ratio
You can use reducer for example 3:1 or 5:1 and change the spur and pinion to hit the ratio you want
@@helmydewa yes you can do that. There is a lot you can do, but it is a lot easier to pick the right KV engine that suits your vehicle and how you want to drive it 🙂 Then if you are not happy with it, you could do what you mentioned 👍🙂
So if you geared down while also having a lower kv motor, wouldn’t the low speed control be better than the same gear ratio on a higher KV?
It would be easier to control (slower always is) , but not necessarily slower startup.
Puller 400 13t on 3s vs. puller 400 16t on 4s, same gearing what would have more wheelspeed?
Practically identical
Im bought your puller pro v2 2200kv and mamba x for my vanquish phoenix on 3s. If I were to switch to 4s what gear ratio would you suggest? Given stock is 52t spur 15t pinion 32 pitch, I have a spare 56/13 from my wraith. Would just the pinion change make difference? But man is it a sweet setup with the phoenix. Feels so similar but way different then my br-xl and crawlmaster 550. First brushless motor 😆 love all your products next is my shv650 👍🏻
I'd just run it on 4s, but going to a 11 to 13t pinion isn't a bad idea
@@johnrobholmes gotcha I know you recconmend 6:1 gear ratio for crawling just didn't know how the portals effect that ratio.
I know that there is a lot of stuff that affects it but lets add to that calculation battery, if let's say 1000mah lipo will give a 1h run time on 1800kv@20:1 then whats can be expected from 3600kv@40:1?
Same runtime unless you use the extra torque available. Driving style and terrain unchanged, same runtime
@@johnrobholmes your left finger on the radio doesnt directly control the torque but the wheel speed. A 3600kv motor will deliver 4 times more torque while consuming 4 times more electric energy(= solid number of voltes multiplied by he amount of amperes). If we’re not taking in count that you might have to give more throttle with the lower kv motor to reach the necessary torque to conquer the obstacle it‘s clear to say that the higher kv motor consumes 4 times as much energy so your runtime will drop from 1 hour to 1/4 hour aka 15 minutes.
Idk how a 1800kv brushless or a 3600kv brushless motor actually runs in crawlers (ive only used brushless in my faster cars) but if the 1800kv performs at least as well as brushed stock crawler motors i can recommend to use a 1800kv motor for trail or scale crawling. If you’re more into extreme rock crawling the 1800kv will do it aswell but the 3600kv will do it way more smoothly (while dividing your runtime by 4). The only reason i see for upgrading to a high kv motor in crawlers are competition crawlers (or just wanting to keep your throttle finger at the same spot while climbing extreme obstacles). As I’ve said: idk how much torque a 1800 brushless motor delivers but in every phrase i wrote i was just expecting it to deliver at least as much torque as the cheap stock motors
@@the_letti0584 watts are watts and the battery isnt changing. At 4mph both rigs use the same energy, more or less. It isn't until loading down that the faster motor can pull more torque. So, Unless you go binding the rig down harder, the faster motor with more gear down does not affect runtime very much.
Runtime is not affected much unless you bind it down more and use the available torque.
On the average, I do not lose much runtime besides what a twitchy finger and sometimes harder acceleration cause.
Now, if we threw in the faster motor without regear the runtime would go down a lot. More wheelspeed? Always less runtime.
@@johnrobholmes is it because if you geardown more, the motor spins not hard as the other one with higher gear ratio isn't it...?
Thanks!!! :D
I see now. I need a new watch.
Can I get one of them calculator watches from your website?????😆
Will this also be true in the bashing world with say and 800 kV running a one to One ratio versus say a little smaller can 1100 KV running a one to One. Five ratio
Okay, but this is all predicated on not changing voltage. If you KV down, you're supposed to keep the gearing the same and bump the voltage up in order to gain efficiency and runtime.
Lower KV, same gearing, same voltage = lower temps, lower top speed, less draw, longer run time, same *(?)* acceleration
Lower KV, adjusted gearing, same voltage = similar temps, same/similar top speed, similar/more draw, shorter/similar run time, poorer acceleration (lower torque)
Lower KV, same gearing, higher voltage = lower temps *(?),* same/similar top speed, similar/less draw, longer run time, same/better acceleration
Lower KV, adjusted gearing, higher voltage = similar/higher temps, higher top speed, similar/more draw, similar/shorter run time, same/poorer acceleration *(?)*
We have to keep something constant for sake of comparison.
If we doubled the voltage for the slower motor and didn't change gearing, the example would basically be "how much voltage drop in your esc assuming it can handle twice the voltage" and nothing more. Since most escs are ran near their voltage rating, it's not a useful demonstration to showcase that lower kv motors don't actually produce more torque.
@@HolmesHobbies Doesn't necessarily have to be double, and my proposal in general is more for people looking to either select their power system from scratch, or start over completely.
I want to know what happens when you hit your peak rpm? Are there risks? Is this a big no no?
Could explode the rotor if it's really fast. My motors are 60k no load rated. Still not a good idea to Rev them without load
It's been my strategy to gear as low as possible and then add motor kV until the truck goes a little faster than I can walk.
Im afraid the math/physics part oversimplified the real model of a motor. Particularly the part how you derived the torque is fundamentally inaccurate.
I really enjoyed this one ☝️ to the end “. I still have a crush on my math teacher 👩🏫 in the ninth grade “. I work on her car and auto mechanics too ! I can still remember her give me the keys 🔑 thank you 😊 look at her radiator 😵🤘🤙
Brushless: KV ⬆️ GEAR ⬇️
Brushed: VOLT ⬆️ GEAR ⬆️ (???)
What happened when you introduce sensored vs. nonsensorred brushless systems into the equation?
for brushed and brushless it works similar.
volt up = higher rpm. higher rpm = higher wheel speed. gearing down = lower wheel speed and higher torque.
@@mrstanton81 sensored and nonsensorred only means the quality of controlling of motor rotations. it is important on slow rpm's.
I don’t get it. Don’t volting up and gear down make ur crawler has tone of torque twist? In climbing steep hills, this is going to make the rig flip, right?
Cause I geared my axle down a lot. Under steep hills, my rig wants nothing but lifting😅
@Bradon881 any time you make more torque or power, yes torque twist gets worse. If it's making your rig peel off the rock you need to start changing suspension geometry or CG
Would love to see the real life demonstration
still have calculator watch ive landed in the 80s
Bill Nye the Science Guy
bill, bill, bill, bill...
So if I gear down with a '9900 castle system it'll be more torque than a 3800
There are limits with the battery, esc, and wires that give us a goldilocks zone around 2700kv on 4s and 3500kv on 3s.
So it's like running 4.56 gears in a 300hp 4 cyl. Vs 4.56 in a 300hp V8 in a super simplified nutshell yes they'll have more torque but the V8 won't have to work as hard under the same conditions
I before E except after C
Been saying this for years.
And when did E turn into V?
Haha, in germany (maybe even all over europe) it isnst V aswell but it’s U. Of course V is used for volts but in calculations we always use U
Make sense to me.
If you can do all this you should have your own elevator company
Newton is upset at you saying “units of torque”…
So the only advantage of the lower KV is power savings….
Towlie said you should do stuff and then get high.
Like weed-high??
But the wear is higher and the power draw is higher.
Do you have a kid about 22 lived in Santa Cruz ? My logan is just like you looks and brain
Quit burying the lede, let's talk about that shirt.
I'm so tired of seeing the tired old myth of a higher turn motor having more torque. "I use a 55t turn because my rig is built for torque"
With brushed, it's true down to about 30t to 27t range. Then, as it gets slower it loses torque again. All due to brush saturation vs coil resistance.
I've noticed a lot of pseudo science in the RC world lol, especially from the RCexplained channel 😅
There's a lot of misconceptions with electronics in general. One can only do so much to educate!