The LOST ROVER BRAVO FOUND! - Solving The Greatest Rover Mystery!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video we explore one of the most incredible and mysterious Rover cars ever made, one that until now has not been revealed the Rover Bravo, with the help of the Bertone Archive we find the missing link, the Rover SD1s lost replacement from 1980 and ask the question, would it have been successful if launched by British Leyland to go head to head with BMW, Mercedes and the other big players of the time.
Plotting it’s lineage within the concepts such as the Rover R16 the Rover 800 replacement to the Rover 55 to replace the 400 and 200 and join the 75 as a new luxury Rover range and even the Rover R30.
We explore how each of these incredible projects ended and what happened to these mysterious lost cars. Please note that I have tried my best to verify this information, until proven otherwise it will be presented as fact.
You can email me at: thomas.cowling@protonmail.ch
Follow me on Instagram for more cool stuff: / tomisdrivingcars
Credits:
AROnline - Rover Bravo, Triumph Lynx, Product Plans 1978-1987.
Lignes/Auto - Rover Bravo archive images (exclusive with permission)
If you'd like to read more my sources are linked below
Lignes/Auto - www.lignesauto.fr
AROnline Rover Bravo -www.aronline.c...
AROnline Product Plans - www.aronline.c...
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I'm looking at the Rover Bravo & thinking......Proton Saga. 🥴
💯
Deschamps did the Skoda Favorit, there are similar cues
Same here. It's right on the money for early 80's boxy styling. The rear glass looks like a Montego as well. A better front and rear and it would have been a success though I think
Came here to say exactly this 😂
The side view is almost identical to my Mum’s old Mitsubishi Tredia…
Can’t see any Rover in this thing
Prototype was for sure located in Italy. The fiat 127 on the left and its plate (Orange for province and White for the numbers) confirms the realisation in Italy. Pininfarina or Bertone, it is difficult to affirm with absolute certainty. The distintive traits of both the styles are present in all views of the car, probably made in late 70' or early 80's, which will be adopted on several cars like 405, ZX, 164 or Montego.
yes agree.
Bertone. This has influece of the Bertone Volvo Tundra (concept, which Volvl rejected) eventually developed to Citroen BX. This, after Rover rejected it was also offered to Volvo for the replacement of Volvo 300-series, but Volvo rejected it too and went through the 480 to the 400-series collaboration with Mitsubishi.
Definitely a Turin workshop with those distinctive hills/mountains in the background...
Fascinating video. I see more than a hint of Citroën BX, which I suppose makes sense as it's Bertone.
Rover made the correct commercial decision with Bravo Verses 800 product. Which is no doubt why they made it!
Reminds me of a Renault 21
but uglier.
100% very European but that’s expected from Bertone
You beat me to it. Looks like the 21 esp from the side.
Yes! Along the side from the start of the drivers door (base of front most point of A pillar) to me looks incredibly similar to the Renault 21… with maybe a bit of the Citroen BX 4dr saloon concept?
Great video 👍 The Design studios don't waste their prototypes and use elements in designing other marquis car's 😊
Very handsome saloon - to my eyes it looks like a fusion of the mid 80s Renault 21 and 25. I'm not sure it quite gives enough 'Rover' energy in the styling, and I think the 800 exudes more solidity and luxury.
I could see the Bravo competing with the lower end of the 80s luxury saloon market - SAAB 9000, Audi 100, Ford Granada etc.; but it looks pretty insubstantial styling-wise when compared with contemporaneous BMW 5-series and Mercedes W124 (230) at the upper end.
I agree, I think if refined it could have been a lot better looking
I see a bit of Renault 25 and Alfa Romeo 164 in this concept
I was about to say very similar, also you can see it is a Bertone design,- very Citroen BX at the front end and front doors.
Citroen BX front?
with touches of BX19...
The R25 is one of the most lost & forgoten cars of the 90,s
Peugeot 405 (and 605) is much more similar (than the Renault 25) with Alfa Romeo 164. They are also from the same designer: Pininfarina.
The photos were taken in Italy. A Fiat with Italian numberplates is on one of the photos. So, it will be at Bertone's studio. Bertone reused the front end of the car in the Citroën BX. It is identical.
i thought the front was similar!
Google "Volvo Tundra" to see where the BX came from!
The Citroën BX prototype was presented to Citroën in 1978.
Note: the Volvo Tundra prototype is from 1979 😉
@@dortkommendieclowns1474 true but the prototype and the Tundra were both the product of Marcello Gandini at Bertone. While the production BX took the prototype's shape and proportions, and wheel openings, some details, such as the front styling and flat sides, clearly came from the Tundra. I've always looked at both as two parts of the same design project.
Does look like the photo was taken outside Bertone studio at Caprie to the west of Turin, you can see the mountains in the background.
I adore the SD1 series 1, and owned 2, both V8s. It's so sad that it wasn't made well, cos it was such a sexy looking car. Seeing this clip, the 700 looks ok, but the 55 looks gorgeous! Quite the bulldog at the front. I'd love to have seen that produced, it looks both serious and elegant.
I’m rather relieved that this one didn’t make it to production - it’s not ghastly - but it’s most definitely not a Rover. Wonder why they picked Bertone, and not Pinninfarina or Giugiaro given the links that both had previously had with BMC and BL. Interesting rear window treatment - was this inspired by Roger Tucker’s work on Montego - or did this inspire Roger?
It looks like a Citroen BX front end, ZX middle and a Renault 17 has hit the back and left it's back lights, then an Alfa GTV has then hit it and left it's back light.
That's nobody's finest moment, the 800 is miles better, a nice smooth subtle wedge, still looks good but the colour is crucial.
I honestly think the 75 coupe is stunning, only topped by the P5b
Definitely has Renault 25 vibes, not bad but nothing groundbreaking either
I think Honda was the right collaboration and the company flourished until BMW took over and it was asset stripped, from then on without another credible partner they were doomed
I think so too, although I like the Bravo proposal, I do think the 800 is a more compelling car.
@@tomdrives most definitely and I think Honda needed Rover back then as much as Rover needed Honda
Ironic Honda is now a smaller company and stopped manufacturing in UK, it was a partnership that worked
Good video that Tom as always, Sorry i meant 164, The bigger Alfa that the Bravo reminded me of. I think Austin/Rover played it safe with the Honda partnership and at the time when everything was being privatised by Thatcher the Honda join up was what they needed, Honda had the growing reputation of safe, reliable cars and tbh the Rover cars of the late 80's and 90's were really nice, Well kitted out and good quality, The 600, 800 and Sterling all good cars. But as you said, If they refined the Bravo could of worked but needed back up from management and foresight with accompanying models to go with it.
First, I would like to compliment Tom on the detail he goes into.
On first seeing the Bravo I thought it a smaller car than it actually is; about the size of a Montego. The treatment of the c-pillar is also similar to the Montego.
The front end reminded me of the Citroen BX and also of some Renault models. Marc Deschamps was at Bertone and Bertone designed the BX.
Tom said the wheelbase was 105 inches. To compare to other cars: Montego 101”, Bravo 105”, Rover 800 108.7”, SD1 110.8”. So a bit small as an SD1 replacement.
The rear window design carried over...
...into...
...THE MONTEGO!!!
It looks to me like a very early rendering of the Montego
Yessss!!!!
I like the look of it, very 80s, yet very unique.
Keep the great content coming please 🙏
Thanks Stewart
Congratulations on more of your diligent research!
Thanks Jim I put a lot into these videos in terms of research but I wouldn’t be able to without the help and prior research of this brilliant community.
Very interesting video Tom keep them coming
Thanks Tony, will do
Personally, I’m glad this prototype didnt see the light of day. It looks like the lovechild of a Citroen BX and a Proton.
It's not terribly bad design, but it looks very downmarket, more appropriate as a Princess replacement.
I think it would have dated quickly.
It looks a cross between a Montego & Peugeot 405
Yup certainly someone at austin rover liked the montego rear window design or vice versa depending which car was actually on the drawing board first 👍
Maybe a Renault 25 with a Montego...
Hi you referred to a V8 diesel version of the stock V8 petrol. The project (Iceberg) was dropped as the bottom end of the V8 couldn't stand the diesel compresion ratio. Several attempts were made, if I recall coreectly in conjunction with Perkins.
Grugliasco, in the province of Turin. Famous for its Bertone Style Center in Caprie, in the Susa Valley. so that could be a start? for further investigation?
Just had a look, thanks for the heads up, looks to be bang on.
Caprie has been empty for many years since Bertone went bankrupt. The cars were bought by ASI the Italian classic car club, and moved to the Vollandia museum at Milan Malpensa.
We can never know how the future pans out. However, for me, the Rover/Honda partnership was the better option than being a subsidary maker to BMW; thus they should have rejected BMW and stayed with Honda.
That's so cool! Renault Fuego??? The proportions of that design are really spot on. There's a balance to the design that's really quite satisfying. Bertone. That makes sense.THAT would have sold!!!! Mind you, wouldn't have liked to have been the one to install all those mahoosive computer monitors. The hernias......
Any idea how are the bravo project got? Was there ever a running prototype?
I’m not sure the bravo would have helped rover at the time, I think the 800 was the right path to help save the brand at the time as they needed to make as high quality product as possible for minimum costs to shake the shoddy image they had at the time.
I think rover did the correct thing in going into collab with Honda and creating the R8 series and 800. I really don't like this concept car however I did like the Triumph lynx and that was a missed op. Another great video tom (y)
Great find and interesting story. The decision to drop this and work with Honda on 800/Legend was the right one though. That ultimately led to a big change in the way ARG and Rover Group worked and for the better. I doubt the Bravo would have captured anything like the sales the 800 did, the Honda ‘ness really helped and it was a genuinely competitive car and well made. 👍
Rover Bravo looked like an Alfa 90 V6 concept car by Pininfarina or Bertone mixed with Peugeots 309 :-)
Bertone really spread their designs around didn't they?! I see hints of Renault Fuego in there among others such as the Citroen BX....??
Great video for a perfect day like this,thank you for doing this please keep up the great work
Thanks Ralph! Appreciate you being here as always
@@tomdrives I'm a fan
Great video many thanks. Would be cool if you can find a picture of the R9. A saloon slightly larger than the R8. It was killed in the eighties together with Anna. Anna was the coupe version of the first generation Rover 800.
Another great and informative video Tom. The Rover Bravo looks like another lost opportunity for BL.
Interesting! Quite a handsome looking car, though to my mind, the bonnet area doesn't seem to quite match the centre and rear ends - it seems too low. Is it just me, or is there something rather Daewoo Espero in the rear window area? Who designed the Espero? Anyway, the Bravo might have looked good, but weren't 4 door non-hatch rear drive saloons a bit old hat by then? Unless they had BMW or M-Benz badges?
Bertone designed the Espero.
@@simonabbott7323 Aha!! Family resemblance! Thanks
I think Rover were right to do project XX with Honda. Interesting concept car though with it's C pillar glass reminiscent of LM11 (Montego).
The pictures of the Bravo outside an industrial area look like they were taken in somewhere sunny - Italy? or Spain?.... in one picture a white hatchback, that looks like a Fiat 127 , seems to have an Italian "Prova" (prototype) numberplate ?? Just trying to figure it out - Great video - Thanks!
OHH MAN!!! So miss SIM CITY 95 ;) lol Gr8 Video Pal!
bloody awesome coverage even Tony pond would be proud such an awesome car and awesome driving skills
I'm only 1,28 in and it's bloody hideous 😮
Not to your tastes then! I have to admit, the SD1 is a far better looking car.
@@tomdrivesa Bravo with a fast back hatch like the SD1 may have been better looking and a lot more practical.
The idea of new body and known mehanicals is time honoured, likewise carrying on a name to keep customer identity, Ford missed that with the Sierra, new shape new name and sales flopped, call it a Cortina and everyone knew what they were doing and the Cavalier would have been an also ran, but such is life with 2020 hindsight.
Looking at these pictures of the Bravo, I'm so glad that I had the opportunity to own an 800 series Vitesse. The Bravo is a styling disaster, the 800 is a classy looking car.
This car looks a sure winner and with the later V8 EFI engine would have been a good competitor to BMW's saloons. The 1986 825 never reached this market segment.
The Bravo weirdly looks like something inbetween a Citroën BX and a Xantia.
75 Coupe is a beauty ❤
Looks like a montego ! Rear window too 😊
I think the 800 they ended up with was the better looking machine (and likely better engineered). That Bravo has a Renault/Peugeot look about it.
rover 55 looked good
It looks like a Proton Saga.
I agree
Thank you for this great video. It doesn't look as big and premium as SD1 and 800 to me.
8:46 "...unit, location unknown" - For sure Italy. In the background you see a Fiat 127 with Italian number plate. Sadly I can't identify the region of the number plate and the Fiat 127 has no connection to Bertone, so it is not necessarily Bertone where the photos are taken.
I’ve just looked on maps at this, more to follow.
@@tomdrives I will be very happy if I could just help a little bit
The front is like an 800 with a weird bumper and the rear is an Alfa, yet it looks French side-on.
A real cut and paste job that would've made Johnny Cash proud.
Much too cheap and flimsy looking for a Rover. Glad it didn't make it to market!
Is that rear window borrowed from the Montego?
The RHonda agreement was a good one - teaming up with the best of Japanese. If exchange rates had been more favourable, RHondas could have done well in Australia in the 80s ..the biggest seller was a rebadged Honda Integra with back doors (Integra was a coupe).
Love it! Don't love the Honda. The green house is a bit tall but I really like the headlight and taillight treatment.
Must admit, I really like it! It’s different looking, shame they didn’t go with it.
Rover 800 was/is beautiful after the design upgrade with longer bumper sills. Particularly after the inclusion of a hatch version, which made it more of a natural successor to SD1. This is like a 70s lancia.
I always liked the SD1 , very timeless elegant & not so unlike Citroën CX.
Rover Bravo looks great 👍
Super Car and Rover is an insane concept 😂
I think they should have done larger version of Austin AR17 the replacement for Montego. sharing majority of parts with the AR17. The Bravo was rear wheel drive so it wouldn't shared as many of the parts with the AR17 which was front wheel drive . The 800 was front wheel drive, but they would've had pay Honda a fee for every car produced.
Someone has probably already said this but - Citroen BX saloon concept? Definitely a huge hint of BX at the front.
I think that is a rather handsome looking car, and I think it might well have done pretty well had it been properly developed.
Wow… it’s like the missing link that proves the Bertone design studio were running out of ideas in the 80s. There are quite a few bits which seem to have ended up on other (mostly French and Italian) cars
Sorry, what was this model called? I think you mentioned it once but I may have missed it...
@@nigelstock3332 I sense sarcasm
Was a good looking car !!
Looks like a fancy proton/ lancia thema
Renault front,with Citroen bumper,earlier Peugeot 405 doors,and upper body, rear quarters reminiscent of Renault 21 wheels prototype Alfa.
I think It looks great. Almost Bertone-like.
Appealing, generally. A Vitesse version with a front valance and chin spoiler would have sorted its considerable gawky overbite, and a Vitesse-style rear spoiler would have nicely crowned that of-its-time rear end treatment. Still has the stupid narrow piece of basically C-section steel dirt trap corrosion-starter connecting the rear doors, sills and arches; I never understood why that was a thing in so many AR designs but, to be fair, it was also an Achilles’ heel of contemporary Hondas, the 800 Series and of the Sierra amongst others. As always, needs a 50mm ride height reduction and a slightly wider stance to better fill those rather stylish arches. I’m very glad that a Buick-derived diesel V8 didn’t happen, this side of re-hashing it with an iron block; at the very least it would have needed much thicker steel liners so either a sacrifice in bore and hence capacity, or bore it out and see similar issues to the 4.3 and 4.6 P38 engines, plus it would need to have been turbocharged to be competitive… a grenade in waiting. Little wonder that the VM 2.4TD became the preferred diesel option so at least any reliability issues could be Teflon-shouldered onto VM. I don’t think we woz robbed when this project was quietly put to death.
It reminds me of a Citroën BX but then in sedan form. Not bad. I loved the BX.
I see Citroën BX styling at the front, Renault 21 & Peugeot 405 at the side, Montego rear screen detail and finally Lagonda series 4 rearmost detailing.
Looks a very similar profile to the Montego!
I'm assuming some of the styling quirks would have been cleaned up if this car was ever moved to production, but it's not what I would call beautiful or distinctive. The Rover SD1, for example, might have been poorly engineered at launch, but the styling was stunning. The Rover 800/Sterling was probably the way to go at the time, however in retrospect we know how this ended.
09:53 This looks like TRRL in Crowthorne.. Those trees look familiar! It would have a great place for an advert because it had British roads (colour/markings, etc.) and there was no impact to traffic, of course.
The Rover Bravo is an interesting styling exercise which looks more to me like an experiment to produce an upmarket smaller Rover from the Montego than a proposal to replace the SD1. I strongly suspect that this prototype was actually superceded by the 1984 SD3 Rover 200 (Honda Ballade). There was much talk in the video of the proposed SD1 replacement being rear wheel drive so why on earth would Rover produce a prototype for a proposed large rear wheel drive executive car on a small front wheel drive platform? Surely they would have just utilized the SD1 chassis to build a styling proposal.
Interesting stuff!
Great Channel. 800 for me easily
That shirt is serious mate 👍👍
Hints of Montego and VW Passat.
Tom, reminds of a Proton Saga
Looks .. circa 1988
The front looks like a Citroen BX the rear window looks like a montego greeting’s from Scotland 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
I agree, I see that as well!
Not as pretty as an 800 but prototypes are usually unrefined designs anyway, could have turned out OK. I have an SD1 and an 825, the only thing that lets the 800 down is its FWD.
Ah, it IS a Bertone design! Should have known.
you asked about the location. If you look at the background. The white hatchback in the background seems to be on Italian plates of the era. So perhaps Italy.
Quiet a bit of the Lamborghini Athon of 1980 ...an yes the 25 should have asked Mr Gandini ... ;O)
like the shirt tom!
Very montegoesque, hint of 405 as well.
The front bumper is very Citroen BX series 1 which was a Marcello Ghandini design.
It does bear an uncanny resemblance to the Alfa/Fiat/Saab collaboration!
I’d say that photo of the Bravo was taken at Longbridge.
Others may have commented but the photos almost certainly taken in Italy as there is a white Fiat in the background of one of the two pictures with Roma plates. So unlikely the model ever made it to the U.K. so if still exists likely to be somewhere in Italy.
I'm seeing Montego rear windows in the Bravo.
You can a bit of a montego in the c pillar
To be fair, i think this would be a nice looking Austin, Morris or even an Austin Morris. It would flop but would naturally blend in with the rest of the range, specially the Montego.
If we are talking about these specs with a better looking body, yes, it would be a great Rover
Looks more like a Lancia to me, trouble was Euro manufacturer's were making good cars in the eighties like Fiat's Uno, Tipo, Peugeot's 205, 309, Renault's 5, 19, 21, Citroën' s and VW Golf's etc etc
Metro, Maestro, Montego and Rovers just didn't compete........I mean the Fiat Uno was far more modern than the Metro in the eighties....
That these photos were taken in Italy circa 1980 is evident from the white Fiat 127 seen in the background. It's a series 2 (facelift model) and therefore built between 1977 and 1981. The styling is very Marcello Gandini with the swage lines and that rear window, and in terms of styling language is very reminiscent of the Citroen BX which he was designing at the time, though the over all silhouette is more Renault 21, i.e., a svelte squared-off 3-box body with a large greenhouse. The tail lights anticipate those of the late '80s and Pininfarina-designed Alfa 164 and the early '90s Alfa GTV and Spider.
Presuming that this is something more than a static mock up, two other things to remark are that it is right-hand drive and that it has twin exhausts, presumably then it has a Rover V8 under the bonnet. Was the body new clothes on SD1 underpinnings?
Stretched Montego
Interesting as always
Was the V8 diesel engine the Iceberg project (think the workout a tougher bottom end for the diesel was used for the later stretched petrol V8s)
The Bravo looks like a cross between a Shitroen and a Proton
I bet Robocop would have bought one 🤣