As always detailed show notes and references available at the podcast site: www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/31-daniel-schmachtenberger Here are time stamps (but references are at above link) 00:00 - Daniel Schmachtenberger info + TGS episodes part 1 and part 2 06:30 - Overview of Nate’s story: Animated videos, Economics for the Future - Beyond the Superorganism 11:17 - Evolutionary Psychology 11:43 - How psychology varies across cultures 12:01 - Varying levels of violence, value of education across cultures 13:04 - Dumb American geography videos 14:30 - How algorithms keep people on social media sites 15:20 - Humans prefer certainty, uncertainty is difficult 16:08 - One Marshmallow/Two Marshmallow experiment 17:01 - Supernormal stimuli 17:50 - People dying of obesity are also dying of nutrient deficiency 21:45 - Sensemaking 24:31 - Chinese model of government 26:07 - Reductionism 27:12 - Iatrogenic 27:35 - Chronic diseases require understanding the body’s system 30:45 - Orangutans, Indonesia and paper bags 33:20 - Consensus Bias 33:30 - Environmental degradation on indigenous lands and communities 35:27 - David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti 37:15 - Delusion of Consciousness 40:20 - Vedic Bhagavad Gita chapter 2 verse 48 43:38 - Psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness 44:28 - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy - Catastrophizing 49:02 - Doomerism 50:15 - Sometimes ‘cheering up’ makes people feel worse 55:01 - Decentralized technology, tabletop CRISPR 55:39 - Bucky Fuller - egg analogy 58:25 - Discrete Phase Shifts 59:27 - Trolley Problem 1:02:30 - CAFOs 1:03:38 - Diet For a New America 1:06:51 - Marc Gafni
Get back on the horse Nate. This place is rife with 'secondary compounds' and these are: 1) all plants make them and 2) none of them serve a function within the plant in which they come from; they are not a part of that plants' reproduction, feeding, structural support, they really serve no function at all within the plant from which they come and yet plants make them anyway. If you drove a bicycle for the first time and quit riding bikes ever again because you fell down you would be missing out on refining the energy-->biology control apparatus that you were born with within that body that you now reside so it just seems mandatory, to me, that everyone should learn to ride a bicycle. :)
Joe Rogan called it "Going to the God Room" and these myriad of "hallucinogens" which exist in this living world, like many other things in a completely pan psychic universe, will ultimately shed some light on how much energy is required to move "x" amount of distance. (a bicycle is the most efficient machine Human Beings have ever created) :) :) :)
Nescesary for our surfival,delayed reaction.We can train individuel.I always like saying something random like marshmellowmeltdown as I have a brainfog😊
I've listened to a number of podcasts with Daniel and I hesitated to listen to this one as, well, I figured that, however much I really respect his message, I knew what he was going to say. So, why bother. But, once again, as per Nate's observation, the conversation was completely unexpected. I particularly loved Daniel's description of how the heart, the mind and the will have to interact in order to address not just today's ills but our own. All I wish is that a WHOLE lot more people were listening.
totally agree, Daniel has perceived another way of describing the threefold nature of humanity, hopefully he touches on true cost economics in the next conversation
100% Meanwhile I’m writing a paper with 3 others that is a proposal for a self governing framework for collectively creating the 3rd Attractor Daniel positions as the desired outcome.
I've listened to this episode twice and I have a few thoughts on this: a) Nate, it's incredible that you're bringing such vibrant, exciting, exhilarating conversations to life. The internet is a massive place, but I'm consistently blown away by the profundity of conversations I hear on your podcast in this little corner of it. Seriously grateful for that. b) Daniel's response to the influx of messages you get with regards to doom and despair was such an incredible response. For a long time, I felt similarly to many of them and deferred to a state of nihilism that really just made me feel hopeless. It took a lot of reflection to eventually realize that what I was actually looking for is an excuse to not take responsibility and embrace the future - uncertainties and all. In saying that, this conversation really spoke to my heart and reassured me that it's okay to embrace the "not knowing". Seriously grateful for that too.
I cannot begin to wrap my head around the breadth of knowledge, wisdom, honesty and authenticity that Daniel exudes. He brings the brightest light from the darkest place.
The look on Nate’s face when Daniel said he’d started thinking about this stuff from 12-15 was priceless. Deep insights in this conversation, I learn something new each time.
I bursted into tears at least a couple of times, how wonderful to be so eloquent and humble when educating fellow humans about the sacredness of life and how to feel and protect it at every level.
Maybe the most sensitive (is that the right word?) I've seen Daniel. I loved the expansion of the marshmellow test, plus I especially love hearing about Daniel's past.
theres a kind of pre-tragic optimism that people will have where they have ideals that have not yet been shattered on the reality of the world, we call naivete. And then theres the encountering the tragedy of the world and having the ideals shattered and there's a cynicism that can emerge there. And then there's a post tragic place that is committed to being in service to the sacredness of life wether you can succeed or not, its still the right way live, the right hill to die on. And it doesn't need the certainty of success to have it be the right sacred thing to be living that way. And then that also realizes that there is a false certainty of the tragic place, just like there is a false certainty in the naive place, and the universe is much bigger than both of those false certainties. And so then it says that cognizant of all the tragedy and cognizant of all the reason to be cynical, AND holding that, we're still gonna look for solutions, and still also operate with the sacredness of life at the center." Daniel
Wait - factory farms. What can we do? It’s cruel and insane. It’s the animals I worry about because they didn’t cause this destruction, they are not cruel, and have a lot to teach us to take us back to source. We need a miracle human mind shift into love and kindness, beauty of nature and back to our right brain, soul.
Ok. That was amazing. We are so fortunate that Nate has such intellectually interesting friends who are willing to share with us. That urge us to defer the instant and pre-canned (maybe manipulated) narrative in order to get a deeper sensemaking from personally exploring the concepts and inputs around us. To refrain from immediately eating the first marshmallow in order to also gain the second one as a reward for our patience and diligence. And to embrace uncertainty in our analysis. As with the brilliant metaphor of observing an embryo inside and egg as it develops and assuming that it is certain to inevitably reach a point of exhausted resources and terminal waste as we extrapolate that situation forward. Not knowing that the developing creature inside will eventually develop a beak that allows it to break out.
Wonderful conversation. bodhisattva Daniel and interlocutor Nate, great work! As Thic Nat Han said, the next savior won't be an individual but a community
Thank you, both, for what you do. Daniel is so articulate in speaking what my heart-mind knows. Like Nate, I have matured more slowly AND I'm grateful for awareness, now. I have been practicing and training to walk alongside and hold space for those who will need companionship through the discrete phase shifts that are coming. Not knowing, not being attached to outcomes, living post-tragic as a liminal space mid-wife, end-of-life (or end of life as we know it) doula/spiritual counselor is my work. Thank you for giving language to concepts and felt experiences. My work is in meeting people where they are, while pointing beyond the naive and tragic places, serving the continuation of life as best I can. 👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
you are a blessing! I am helping my mother through her phase shift as well...and most of it all is to receive her...to help her love herself, help her see herself like her beloved did, that just passed away...he loved her with such a pure heart and saw her light like she couldn't. Thank you for your presence and companionship to those in need.
They are both gifts indeed. However, what I see in their conversation doesn’t feel right to me. Nate seems to be submissive like a fan boy (the mere amount of times he says “my friend“ makes me uncomfortable; and even worse: 52:50). Daniel on the other hand seems to give Nate an indirect coaching - just watch from 49:00 which culminates in his comment about spiritual bypassing which seems very much fitting to what Nate says before, but Daniel is hiding that he is talking about Nate. Just my impression - perhaps I missing something here.
Yay! Ok, I'll be sitting right here, waiting for you guys to come back and illuminate more of the geography and ecology of the landscape. 🙂 Just kidding! I'll be planting my fall garden, riding my bike, running trails, engaging in conversation with my family and neighbors, and lots of other adventures. But. I'll meet y'all back here!
I loved this. Both Nate and Daniel are the best. Daniel blows my mind and I love hearing about his past and like Nate said, just having someone who understands these things "buoys" me and feels good, a glimmer of hope. I loved how Nate just rolled with the direction it was flowing and I loved the palpable emotion that was felt with two people talking about something they care deeply about. Thank you both!
things that are connecting in my mind right now is... D.C. Schindler's work on the catholicity of reason: a view from wholeness. I think Vervaeke is working on this too. We need to transform individual minds to take upon a supra-individual pov, get them out of ego-centrism. Out of a fragmented pluralism into something more integrated and whole.
Many of us want to leave society entirely and live off the land at least partially. Get some supplemental income online remote and get some supplies locally. And use that to transition into deeper simplicity and direct production from the land. If a small handful of groups do this together, they can all start a bulk resources co-op to facilitate a more advanced level of direct resourcing. This is what solves so many problems together. Trying to create solutions on top of the industrial system is like trying to build a house on top the roof of a house falling apart. Since I recognize this, I know what I want to move towards. But myself and people around me are economically and socially trapped, isolated and struggling these days enough that what was attainable a few years ago is so much harder to pursue today. Nate should know there is a growing faction of us who are so disenfranchised by society already that we are completely ready and motivated to create whatever alternative life possible. The only reason we're still here is because we haven't found the escape hatch yet.
Exactly with you there- been seeking a way to grow a permaculture food forest in community, but never had the funds.. been working to acheive that and then rents and prices rise, even as job improves its a never ending burdern to save anything to get out and change things, especially if you want to do anything that isnt destructive in the process.
I love the way how this conversation dynamically and organically evolved. Nothing like a unexpected detour with pleasant surprises. Looking forward to the next one! 🙏
22:30, Daniel makes the point of really know what you're dealing with before you give automatic support for someone's idiom is so very important and yet hard to control for with the continuous inundation of our sightscape. To be able to sensemake reasonably civic engagement with your environment is necessary. It's almost 47 minutes, flow state can be reached working physically. I keep going back to Daniel's idea of pods, maybe it's a little day of the triffids, we have these devices that allow for instantaneous communication but without a physical engagement on the community level we're pissing in the wind. My city representative has over 100,000 thousand constituents, how can they possibly listen to that many people without meeting at the skydome once a month? I myself might have met a thousand people in the area, a couple of hundred to say hi, know less than that, and I'm pretty gregarious. Been here over 10 years. Getting a flier for the transit construction sends out a local message, but it won't reach the entire community, because of it's size. That's just municipal government, there needs to be communal involvement without any thinking you're cultish, or communistic. It will be a huge undertaking in such a short time window. Understanding where we have to go, means that you have to realize where you are now. Great discussion Daniel and Nate, it's stretching some limits but it is coherent.
Congrats to Nate for producing an excellent podcast. I’ve listened to pretty much everything Nate has done over the last 10 years and this may be his deepest discussion yet about our overshoot predicament. I’ve already listened to it twice and will need another couple listens to fully process but I would say if you are a depressed doomer looking for perspective and a possible path to being less depressed, or maybe even hopeful, then this might be the right medicine. Looking forward to part 4 when they intend to discuss specifics on what an aware person can to to make the future less bad, or maybe even help create a phase change for a path to a good future. This old doomer still suspects thermodynamics and genetic denial will prevail but I remain open minded to a better path.
2 thoughts come to mind.1/ of course even if our experience of separation is an illusion , it has a function . 2/ No one , no matter the amount of knowledge, can pretend to know the limitation of reality. Thanks for your work.
Mind, will and heart look forward to the next talk. It seems the current structures are based on narcissism and quick dopamine fixes, look forward to hearing about alternatives. One thing for certain it is going to be uncertain.
Thankyou both so very much My heart just bursts with hope knowing your alive in this beautiful world The interconnectedness is key Love the everlasting marshmellow analogy!+ your spontaneous ability to flow into concept s + ultmately towards solutions... From a very young age talk of too many people always turned into a lump inside me Now im beginning to realise the more people that come to understand the sacredness of all life the faster true effective change will unfold for all Conciously
Thank you Nate and Daniel for a beautiful and brilliant conversation, and for sharing your friendship with us. Regarding the conditioned need for certainty, maybe we need to cultivate Keat's 'negative capability' - "when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason...."
The pods in this series are amazing - each impossibly more inspiring than the previous one! Very grateful for you two and the work you are doing. You give this 63 yr. old woman hope! ❤
Great discussion on a different way of thinking and being from a deeper interconnected understanding and place of delayed gratification as related by the 2 Marshmallow reward. In summary: Not against 'bad guys', but for the thriving of life Not cynically sure of doom or optimistically sure of survival, but from a place that has been in each and understands them but also admits what we don't know and that there are things we don't know we don't know, which may include potential solutions.. Also recognizing we have no fundamental security. Life is fragile and that is okay, and when you are present with that you can appreciate the sacredness and interconnectedness of all life
Great conversation!! One suggestion for your next episode would be discussing the role of Power in the broader Ecology and Energy situation. I disagree with Nate that powerful forces in our society are energy/materials blind... in my opinion, they are fully aware of the role of all of them at the foundation of our civilization. They use their power to hide its fundamental role and, at the same time, they keep creating new narratives to entertain/worry/scare ourselves (climate change, warfare, social media, new democracy, etc)
Russel Brand's podcast has been very good in that spooky territory, especially this year with all of the insanity going on in the world...which looks like it's not just 'random'...the more there is, the more contrived/deliberate it appears to be. Brand is like a progressive 'Alex-Jones-lite' lately and it's great.
Great dialogue Nate and Daniel. As a post-doomster, I resonate with the POV of less suffering for myself and my fellow 8 billion Homo sapiens on the planet. If each couple would commit to having only 1 or 0 children, it wouldn’t take too many generations for a sustainable population to emerge. That is a big and maybe impossible ‘if’ of course. That said, adaopting the POV that we can’t know with certainty what the future will bring is the next best option for maintaining “sanity”. When there is no hope there is always hopium so enjoy it while you still can.😎
@Greg Gardiner My immediate thought is that you are probably being sarcastic (given the use of all caps and no commas).😅 But if you are really interested in hearing my thoughts: I assume you are referring to 42:18, where Daniel mentions “deep time in nature” (which he finds to be particularly valuable), fasting, meditation, breath work, and psychedelics (which he advised some caution towards). I think these are all practices that reduce the “internal dialogue”, aka the “monkey mind” (I could be wrong, but I think these is some research to show that, in neurophysiological terms, that might correspond to reduced activation in the default-mode network), and, based on accounts by people who engage in these practices, they result in what feels like a different state of consciousness (one that somehow feels calmer, clearer, less fearful, more engaged with the senses and feelings, more empathetic, more “connected”, “deeper”, “more real”). Daniel also said that “you can’t just get the cognitive models across”. This is very much in line with 20th century philosophy (see for example Merleau-Ponty’s work, or Wittgenstein’s lion) and the modern embodied cognition framework, which has been gaining in popularity in cognitive science since the 80’s. In a very short and overly-simplified manner: there is information (“scientists say that exercise is good for you and I trust scientists”), then there is theoretical understanding (“I’ve studied physiology and sports science and I understand the mechanisms and the effects of exercise on the human heart, metabolism, brain function, etc.”), and then there is embodied knowledge (“I have clear, first-person, experiential knowledge of how different my body, my emotional state, my energy levels, and my clarity of thought are/feel when I exercise regularly vs when I don’t). I think Information and theoretical understanding tend to have very limited motivational force, whereas embodied knowledge can be transformational (but it cannot be “taught”, it requires first-person experience). 🙂
Love you two and the cattle truck story sums up how I feel too in a nutshell. I hope many others feel the same way too. Couldn’t have put it better myself!
I believe that externalization of waste is a pattern through the whole economic system. Thant's how every business up to a level of employee does. And when it scales to global economy, the external is basically nature.
Thank you both for your time, your knowledge and your deep connection to everything meaningful. I wish I was exposed to non-duality in my early life, although I always felt a deep connection to nature and naturally eating healthful food. I didn’t have the language or thought process to express that feeling of connection. The last 15 years learning from many various teachers (such as yourselves) has completely changed my reality. I am also an optimist by nature but I also acknowledge and accept the shadows of our humaneness.
I have re listened to so much of this phenomenal interchange. Thank you both for sharing your views. Such immaculate clarity from Schmachtenberger for so many of the most difficult seeming elements of the global picture. I will share and share and share.
Nate, my friend (I hope to call you friend, the most sacred word to me), you are so beautiful outside and in. You feel so deeply. Or at least I feel you do, ha! At 52:45, you're about to say "when you were 12 to 15" and you look incredulous. It is apparent to me that you were having a moment. Anything I say is simply justification of what was apparent to me. My impression. I didn't choose my impression and I cannot choose the components of justification available to me. But if I am anywhere in the ballpark, you had a great depth of feeling then. Perhaps a marvel at how deep one can be such as your friend Daniel, perhaps how much is possible from a young age, or, as I would think, because I have a fat ugly ego, "look how much better he is than me". You look left and right, mouth slightly agape (funny that is the Greek word for love), eyes slightly moist. All I saw in that moment was your beauty. Your depth of feeling. It was inspirational. You'd think Daniel's story of his Peta/Greenpeace work was inspirational but two things 1.) I have heard it maybe a dozen times from him, always good to here (but no surprise) 2.) He cannot be compared to the rest of us. Only in that he is a human. Not that we can reach to that level (we as other humans). But it's not that story that was so beautiful, man, (because it was inaccessible), it was your reaction to it that was. If all the law is inscribed on the human heart (Bible), you have shown us yours and for am grateful for that for as long as I can remember and draw breath. I just wanted to tell you you're beautiful man. Thank you for being in our corner. For doing this. Thank you for holding the grief and that hurt and worry and tragedy as sacred. I don't know what the conclusion of my statement is. I just wanted to let you know I see you and what I see is beautiful and I am have always believed, aha, my 15 year old revelation (I am 29 now), that people should be told how beautiful, how wonderful and how admired to they are. You are that, friend. Godspeed.
Also wanna thank Daniel for his courage: even though he has shared that story many times of his superpowered home schooled younger self, I have never heard him speak of the fact that he essentially had villainous thoughts afterwards (controlled population decline is always villainous, IMO, I would need to be convinced otherwise and have heard no completing argument). And even then he overcomes and turns them into a good! But it took courage to say that, less so because he can hide behind 15 year-old naivety, but courage none the less. I wouldn't reveal that, because I am not brave. But his sacrifice (of face) raises us all. It is a service. Thank you Daniel, friend.
Edit: never heard the cow story man. By the gods that was devastating. I know he said how and why he didn't suicide. But I really wanna know how how he did that. I worry for myself in that way. Not a cry for attention. If I had courage I would have done it already but I am coward. So I wanna know the practices, philosophic and interactions required to have overcomed that. If Daniel shared that I would be greatly appreciative.
Keep it up and keep fostering solidarity because compassion and altruism is the glue that holds society together, the foundation of the human household. In the present dog eat dig rat race to the bottom we cannot have a healthy society. The way out is to teach people to advocate generosity and organise it with Free Collaboration Networks to meet everyone's needs unconditionally. The purpose of society is to meet people's needs. We are naturally collaborative, contributive and kind unless there is a risk of not meeting our needs, then we fight tooth and nail. We cannot build a better society while fighting eachother because we have to win over jobs and clients so as to make ends meet. Fostering altruism is how we solve this
Wow THIS! "It's harder to say I acutally don't know, so I'm obligated to work on it the best I can still not knowing" This is a real gem here. This is where I find hope in the face of imenent demise. What a privilege to here this wisdom of how do we sit with the paradox of the fragility of life and the beauty at the same time. Also, the description of the 3 treasures of Will, Heart and Mind is profound and I can start to see his congruency with Taoist understanding, which I'm going to assume is intentional and not coincidence.
Loved it, thank you! just keep going, ep 5, 6, 7… however many. I’ve watched nearly all of Daniel’s videos on youtube and these convos with Nate are all among my faves
Thank you for sharing your honest and humble dialogue. It is helping me greatly in my journey and I believe your interviews in this medium are fostering the growth of a community that can help nuture the evolution and the growth of an improved level of sensemaking that can help us emerge into a new level of being.
This went straight to my heart. Im allways hopefull about mankind after listening Daniels insights, knowledge and wisdom. Nate build up so fantastic information egosystem. Thanks for the discussion Nate and Daniel. This serie is pinnacle. Hope to listening part 4 at some point.
So fitting that Nate said this episode was like an everlasting marshmallow. So deep and profound. Beautiful, humbling, awe inspiring. Made me feel fully human.
“The bird fights its way out of the egg. The egg is the world. Who would be born must first destroy a world. The bird flies to God. That God's name is Abraxas.” - Hermann Hesse, Demian I read this book about 20 years ago in college, at it was completely life-changing for me at that point in my life. This particular quotation has meant different things to me at different times in my life since then, and now, 20 years later, I am tearing up hearing Daniel’s response to despair, existential crisis response and “certainty”. That quotation has once again shifted and gained additional meaning to me, again at I time where I needed it most. I have been following this series since episode 1, and when I hit play on this one, I was expecting another very interesting, highly intellectual conversation. While it was also those things, this was a spiritual journey. Nate, when I was in my young 20s, I was also very influenced by “Ishmael” and other books by Daniel Quinn. Like many of his readers, I was left wondering what to “do” with this information. Your work is the best stuff I’ve heard since “Beyond Civilization” and brings that conversation to the 21st century and this decade. Thank you!
42:20: holy shit. Once again you’re blowing my mind. Daniel, you just made it so clear to me why I am the way I am. I always wonder why I care so much more than so many of the people I know seem to. When I was nine years old my aunt and my mom took me and my cousins on a trip across the country in an RV. We stopped at all of the major brown signs… Historical monuments, national parks, national monuments, battle grounds, all of the great lakes, and national forests. At nine years old I stood at the rim of the Grand Canyon with my mouth hanging open. I hiked Bryce Canyon. I went hiking on the first day of summer in Bermuda shorts and a tank top with snow boots on because we were at glacier national Park and there was 2 feet of snow on the ground but it was 80°. I spent an entire summer in complete awe and wonder at the beauty of this country and this world. What you say here about that being the birthplace of caring about all of this. You really did, you just blew my mind. Thank you.
Factory farming, slaughter houses, and the whole rest of it makes one wonder whether so-called "humanity" is worth saving after all. Not only is our "way" of life unsustainable, it's not morally sustainable. Why work so hard to prolong it? Why not welcome its finally ending?
Yes, it is not worth saving. Women dominate voting in universal suffrage democracies, so employment, custody and support laws are bias towards them. No point fighting to save that. Old ladies also want overpopulation to be a taboo topic, so politicians can't discuss it, or they lose their job.
Another excellent dicussion with Hagens and Schmachtenberger! I get two marshmallows! Thank you both so much for spreading the word about the Polycrisis and working towards a solution. 🙂
Lovely to hear my two favorite podcasters working together to find ways to help the natural world. I live in a thriving forest with all manor of critters and cannot imagine life without wildlife so thank you both for all your efforts.
So immensely grateful for this inspiring dialogue! It touches all the relevant points. So great to feel an immediate and deep connection to both of you, so eloquently, wise and compassionate communicated experiences, insights and concerns. And at the same time humble and open to the fact that there might be unknown things we now know nothing about. Reaching a still point where we become aware of the fragility and sacredness of life, and moving on from there, to the best of our abilities. Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
”Our willingness to sit in uncertainty” and ”Our desire to be effective” and the ernestness and quality in these… ❤ This must be where the work starts in my mind. Without it it is likely the effort will derail.
As a species we seem to be attempting to drive a toaster through a car wash. Best we identify the driver and the destination and even our necessity of the outcome of the trip ? Our sentient conscious awareness as the Stewardship of Life itself will direct us if we investigate these ‘latent’ aspects within. A spiritual advancement in Humilty and reverance as LIfE is front and centre to creating a Wisdom which serves, cooperates and collaborates the spirit of mankind. We Can and Must Awaken to our Delusions and Dysfunctions as the World 🌎 is showing us clearly we have priorities arse about ….. great podcast Guys 🙏👍 Keep it up Cheers 🍻
Listening to Daniel talk about false certainty. I certainly suffer from that, but the experience and the other side of it for me are both a little different. The other side first: even if we are certain that a tragic outcome is coming, we can, through individual action, maybe affect how bad it is. Like right now, we are already passing 1.5C, but that don’t mean the fight is over. Our current actions might mean The difference between 3.2C and 3.3C, and for that reason, we must not stop trying. Also, I don’t feel hopelessness in the face of the coming tragedy; I feel EAGERNESS. If we can’t fix it, I want to be here to see it when it all burns down. It’s more bitterness, I guess, than hopelessness. If you tell me it can still be fixed, you’re taking away my light show.
I listen to all of your conversations with Daniel Schmachtenberger, but this is perhaps the most beautiful and, for me the most helpful. I usually don’t bother to comment, just give a thumbs up or down, but S’s way of framing uncertainty (a feeling I struggle with) was exactly the support/validation I needed. Please continue to have regular conversations with him. I understand I can listen to him elsewhere, but you play off each other well, and listening to you together is enjoyable and valuable.
A couple moments I stopped on my walk while listening and locked in to what Daniel was saying. Felt like time stopped. My heart and my mind have been struggling recently and I needed this reminder. To be brave enough to die on the right hill. Thank you and much love
i agree with Daniel. Connectivness with the universe and feeling that deeply is probably the only way humans will change our destruction of ourselves and the world that provides all we need to exist.
Technological advancements are great but I really liked when Nate said you should always have 2 plans in place or a backup plan. There is only one model that exists currently in technological advancement. But what would happen not “IF” but “WHEN” there is a large CME that breaks off from the Sun. WHEN we get a “Carringtonlike” event like in 1859 the satellites would be wiped out along with our global electric grid. I have heard not even a whisper about this from people and when I mention it among “Techies” they stick their heads in the sand and say that will never happen. As good as technology can be and has saved, it will cause much more damage and deaths than it ever saved if there isn’t a backup plan put in place. Also with the current instability showing in our magnetic field the chances of an CME impact affecting technological advances increases daily. You can’t put the cart before the horse.
@@liamhackett513 If the world that exists now existed in 1859 during the Carrington Event there would be much more damage than a few telegraph poles catching fire. I don’t believe one death occurred in 1859 but the results would be catastrophic today.
@@briansprung can't disagree with you. I come from a suburb. It's a cloister that soothes and distracts far too many people from the reality of the modern. world. It doesn't surprise me people are switched off.
It feels good to meet, even on youtube, 2 other humans who are aware of the existential risks while meeting as post tragic optimists. I realized somewhat recently, that given the inherent uncertainty of historical trajectories, that we cannot be certain that only ruin awaits us. It certainly looks bad, and may well be that ruin awaits us, but regardless, I will go down appreciating life and readying myself in case a moment arises that my personal action can make a difference. Many thanks both of you.
As always detailed show notes and references available at the podcast site:
www.thegreatsimplification.com/episode/31-daniel-schmachtenberger
Here are time stamps (but references are at above link)
00:00 - Daniel Schmachtenberger info + TGS episodes part 1 and part 2
06:30 - Overview of Nate’s story: Animated videos, Economics for the Future - Beyond the Superorganism
11:17 - Evolutionary Psychology
11:43 - How psychology varies across cultures
12:01 - Varying levels of violence, value of education across cultures
13:04 - Dumb American geography videos
14:30 - How algorithms keep people on social media sites
15:20 - Humans prefer certainty, uncertainty is difficult
16:08 - One Marshmallow/Two Marshmallow experiment
17:01 - Supernormal stimuli
17:50 - People dying of obesity are also dying of nutrient deficiency
21:45 - Sensemaking
24:31 - Chinese model of government
26:07 - Reductionism
27:12 - Iatrogenic
27:35 - Chronic diseases require understanding the body’s system
30:45 - Orangutans, Indonesia and paper bags
33:20 - Consensus Bias
33:30 - Environmental degradation on indigenous lands and communities
35:27 - David Bohm and J. Krishnamurti
37:15 - Delusion of Consciousness
40:20 - Vedic Bhagavad Gita chapter 2 verse 48
43:38 - Psychedelics and non-ordinary states of consciousness
44:28 - Cognitive Behavioral Therapy - Catastrophizing
49:02 - Doomerism
50:15 - Sometimes ‘cheering up’ makes people feel worse
55:01 - Decentralized technology, tabletop CRISPR
55:39 - Bucky Fuller - egg analogy
58:25 - Discrete Phase Shifts
59:27 - Trolley Problem
1:02:30 - CAFOs
1:03:38 - Diet For a New America
1:06:51 - Marc Gafni
“Thinking about depopulation strategies” as a title would bring many dear people to this podcast
What would the culture we live in ever do if it came across a region or peoples in an area who were, unmistakably, better than us?
Get back on the horse Nate. This place is rife with 'secondary compounds' and these are: 1) all plants make them and 2) none of them serve a function within the plant in which they come from; they are not a part of that plants' reproduction, feeding, structural support, they really serve no function at all within the plant from which they come and yet plants make them anyway.
If you drove a bicycle for the first time and quit riding bikes ever again because you fell down you would be missing out on refining the energy-->biology control apparatus that you were born with within that body that you now reside so it just seems mandatory, to me, that everyone should learn to ride a bicycle.
:)
Joe Rogan called it "Going to the God Room" and these myriad of "hallucinogens" which exist in this living world, like many other things in a completely pan psychic universe, will ultimately shed some light on how much energy is required to move "x" amount of distance. (a bicycle is the most efficient machine Human Beings have ever created)
:) :) :)
really engaging conversation thank you
I really love marshmallows being continuously interjected into such deep thoughts
Nescesary for our surfival,delayed reaction.We can train individuel.I always like saying something random like marshmellowmeltdown as I have a brainfog😊
I've listened to a number of podcasts with Daniel and I hesitated to listen to this one as, well, I figured that, however much I really respect his message, I knew what he was going to say. So, why bother. But, once again, as per Nate's observation, the conversation was completely unexpected. I particularly loved Daniel's description of how the heart, the mind and the will have to interact in order to address not just today's ills but our own. All I wish is that a WHOLE lot more people were listening.
I really loved that part too. 🙏
totally agree, Daniel has perceived another way of describing the threefold nature of humanity, hopefully he touches on true cost economics in the next conversation
100%
Meanwhile I’m writing a paper with 3 others that is a proposal for a self governing framework for collectively creating the 3rd Attractor Daniel positions as the desired outcome.
I've listened to this episode twice and I have a few thoughts on this:
a) Nate, it's incredible that you're bringing such vibrant, exciting, exhilarating conversations to life. The internet is a massive place, but I'm consistently blown away by the profundity of conversations I hear on your podcast in this little corner of it. Seriously grateful for that.
b) Daniel's response to the influx of messages you get with regards to doom and despair was such an incredible response. For a long time, I felt similarly to many of them and deferred to a state of nihilism that really just made me feel hopeless. It took a lot of reflection to eventually realize that what I was actually looking for is an excuse to not take responsibility and embrace the future - uncertainties and all. In saying that, this conversation really spoke to my heart and reassured me that it's okay to embrace the "not knowing". Seriously grateful for that too.
I cannot begin to wrap my head around the breadth of knowledge, wisdom, honesty and authenticity that Daniel exudes. He brings the brightest light from the darkest place.
Charles Eisenstein is also very good. Similar big-picture territory.
The look on Nate’s face when Daniel said he’d started thinking about this stuff from 12-15 was priceless. Deep insights in this conversation, I learn something new each time.
I bursted into tears at least a couple of times, how wonderful to be so eloquent and humble when educating fellow humans about the sacredness of life and how to feel and protect it at every level.
You might also like Charles Eisenstein. I believe there is a conversation podcast between him and Daniel, from a year ago.
gay
Nate, these discussions between you and Daniel are changing my life. Thank you for all the work that you do.
Maybe the most sensitive (is that the right word?) I've seen Daniel. I loved the expansion of the marshmellow test, plus I especially love hearing about Daniel's past.
theres a kind of pre-tragic optimism that people will have where they have ideals that have not yet been shattered on the reality of the world, we call naivete. And then theres the encountering the tragedy of the world and having the ideals shattered and there's a cynicism that can emerge there. And then there's a post tragic place that is committed to being in service to the sacredness of life wether you can succeed or not, its still the right way live, the right hill to die on. And it doesn't need the certainty of success to have it be the right sacred thing to be living that way. And then that also realizes that there is a false certainty of the tragic place, just like there is a false certainty in the naive place, and the universe is much bigger than both of those false certainties. And so then it says that cognizant of all the tragedy and cognizant of all the reason to be cynical, AND holding that, we're still gonna look for solutions, and still also operate with the sacredness of life at the center." Daniel
Wait - factory farms. What can we do? It’s cruel and insane. It’s the animals I worry about because they didn’t cause this destruction, they are not cruel, and have a lot to teach us to take us back to source. We need a miracle human mind shift into love and kindness, beauty of nature and back to our right brain, soul.
I feel so truly honored to have found you guys.Thanks so much for e lighting me.Its really good to know people like you exist in this fucked up world.
Thanks for this everlasting marshmallow😋🙏
I am still enjoying this mouth-watering, mind-expanding quote
His comments on a discrete phase-shift of complex systems were just brilliant and beautiful🤯🥲
I’ve watched all three. We’re still here Nate!
Ok. That was amazing. We are so fortunate that Nate has such intellectually interesting friends who are willing to share with us. That urge us to defer the instant and pre-canned (maybe manipulated) narrative in order to get a deeper sensemaking from personally exploring the concepts and inputs around us. To refrain from immediately eating the first marshmallow in order to also gain the second one as a reward for our patience and diligence. And to embrace uncertainty in our analysis. As with the brilliant metaphor of observing an embryo inside and egg as it develops and assuming that it is certain to inevitably reach a point of exhausted resources and terminal waste as we extrapolate that situation forward. Not knowing that the developing creature inside will eventually develop a beak that allows it to break out.
Wonderful conversation. bodhisattva Daniel and interlocutor Nate, great work! As Thic Nat Han said, the next savior won't be an individual but a community
Wow. Love your choice of words to express this sentiment
Curious you used badhisattva and not 'Buddha' and 'Sangha' haha
@@Dilmahkana definitely one of the deepest conversations I’ve heard.
Wow....I almost think that it might be possible after all.
Thank you, both, for what you do. Daniel is so articulate in speaking what my heart-mind knows. Like Nate, I have matured more slowly AND I'm grateful for awareness, now. I have been practicing and training to walk alongside and hold space for those who will need companionship through the discrete phase shifts that are coming. Not knowing, not being attached to outcomes, living post-tragic as a liminal space mid-wife, end-of-life (or end of life as we know it) doula/spiritual counselor is my work. Thank you for giving language to concepts and felt experiences. My work is in meeting people where they are, while pointing beyond the naive and tragic places, serving the continuation of life as best I can. 👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
you are a blessing! I am helping my mother through her phase shift as well...and most of it all is to receive her...to help her love herself, help her see herself like her beloved did, that just passed away...he loved her with such a pure heart and saw her light like she couldn't. Thank you for your presence and companionship to those in need.
Love this series, Daniel truly has such a unique and eloquent mind. Such a pleasure, thanks Nate!
Love how Nate reacts to Daniel. These two people are a gift to this world!
They are both gifts indeed. However, what I see in their conversation doesn’t feel right to me. Nate seems to be submissive like a fan boy (the mere amount of times he says “my friend“ makes me uncomfortable; and even worse: 52:50). Daniel on the other hand seems to give Nate an indirect coaching - just watch from 49:00 which culminates in his comment about spiritual bypassing which seems very much fitting to what Nate says before, but Daniel is hiding that he is talking about Nate. Just my impression - perhaps I missing something here.
Yay! Ok, I'll be sitting right here, waiting for you guys to come back and illuminate more of the geography and ecology of the landscape. 🙂 Just kidding! I'll be planting my fall garden, riding my bike, running trails, engaging in conversation with my family and neighbors, and lots of other adventures. But. I'll meet y'all back here!
I loved this. Both Nate and Daniel are the best. Daniel blows my mind and I love hearing about his past and like Nate said, just having someone who understands these things "buoys" me and feels good, a glimmer of hope. I loved how Nate just rolled with the direction it was flowing and I loved the palpable emotion that was felt with two people talking about something they care deeply about. Thank you both!
things that are connecting in my mind right now is...
D.C. Schindler's work on the catholicity of reason: a view from wholeness. I think Vervaeke is working on this too. We need to transform individual minds to take upon a supra-individual pov, get them out of ego-centrism. Out of a fragmented pluralism into something more integrated and whole.
Love Daniel's person stories, they really shine a light on his depth and character
So much so! I enjoy getting to know him better as well. Such a beautiful heart and soul...Daniel. 🫀
I’m so glad to see the viewership of this channel increasing so much so quickly. It gives me hope. Thank you for these conversations.
Many of us want to leave society entirely and live off the land at least partially. Get some supplemental income online remote and get some supplies locally. And use that to transition into deeper simplicity and direct production from the land. If a small handful of groups do this together, they can all start a bulk resources co-op to facilitate a more advanced level of direct resourcing. This is what solves so many problems together. Trying to create solutions on top of the industrial system is like trying to build a house on top the roof of a house falling apart.
Since I recognize this, I know what I want to move towards. But myself and people around me are economically and socially trapped, isolated and struggling these days enough that what was attainable a few years ago is so much harder to pursue today. Nate should know there is a growing faction of us who are so disenfranchised by society already that we are completely ready and motivated to create whatever alternative life possible. The only reason we're still here is because we haven't found the escape hatch yet.
Exactly with you there- been seeking a way to grow a permaculture food forest in community, but never had the funds.. been working to acheive that and then rents and prices rise, even as job improves its a never ending burdern to save anything to get out and change things, especially if you want to do anything that isnt destructive in the process.
I love the way how this conversation dynamically and organically evolved. Nothing like a unexpected detour with pleasant surprises.
Looking forward to the next one! 🙏
This was a moving and inspirational discussion - thank you
22:30, Daniel makes the point of really know what you're dealing with before you give automatic support for someone's idiom is so very important and yet hard to control for with the continuous inundation of our sightscape. To be able to sensemake reasonably civic engagement with your environment is necessary. It's almost 47 minutes, flow state can be reached working physically. I keep going back to Daniel's idea of pods, maybe it's a little day of the triffids, we have these devices that allow for instantaneous communication but without a physical engagement on the community level we're pissing in the wind. My city representative has over 100,000 thousand constituents, how can they possibly listen to that many people without meeting at the skydome once a month? I myself might have met a thousand people in the area, a couple of hundred to say hi, know less than that, and I'm pretty gregarious. Been here over 10 years. Getting a flier for the transit construction sends out a local message, but it won't reach the entire community, because of it's size. That's just municipal government, there needs to be communal involvement without any thinking you're cultish, or communistic. It will be a huge undertaking in such a short time window. Understanding where we have to go, means that you have to realize where you are now. Great discussion Daniel and Nate, it's stretching some limits but it is coherent.
Daniel is so perceptive and his observations always enlighten me.
Really? Which one?
@@peterholy953 I learned a lot from his observations on memetics.
@@peterholy953 Also the comparison of social media to porn, the same way it substitutes real connection for fantasy.
@@TennesseeJed Meme who? Is this even a thing or some "intellectual" made it up so he and his kins can intellectually masturbate.
@@peterholy953 ..and observations on complex causation and migration of the problem from one place to another.
Absolutely beautiful and inspiring
I'm so interested to know what Daniel has been working on on his whiteboard behind him
me too!
Congrats to Nate for producing an excellent podcast.
I’ve listened to pretty much everything Nate has done over the last 10 years and this may be his deepest discussion yet about our overshoot predicament. I’ve already listened to it twice and will need another couple listens to fully process but I would say if you are a depressed doomer looking for perspective and a possible path to being less depressed, or maybe even hopeful, then this might be the right medicine.
Looking forward to part 4 when they intend to discuss specifics on what an aware person can to to make the future less bad, or maybe even help create a phase change for a path to a good future.
This old doomer still suspects thermodynamics and genetic denial will prevail but I remain open minded to a better path.
That was really moving. Lovely
Hold on............ this was more of a intense spiritual healing session, a emotional recalibration event......... than a podcast.
Absolutely amazing
2 thoughts come to mind.1/ of course even if our experience of separation is an illusion , it has a function . 2/ No one , no matter the amount of knowledge, can pretend to know the limitation of reality.
Thanks for your work.
Amazing. Thank you.
He has one powerful mind. So do you Nate.
What a profound conversation between the two of you!!! So much food for thought. Many thanks!
Thanks, Nate.
Have a great weekend.
Mind, will and heart look forward to the next talk. It seems the current structures are based on narcissism and quick dopamine fixes, look forward to hearing about alternatives. One thing for certain it is going to be uncertain.
Thankyou both so very much
My heart just bursts with hope knowing your alive in this beautiful world
The interconnectedness is key
Love the everlasting marshmellow analogy!+ your spontaneous ability to flow into concept s + ultmately towards solutions...
From a very young age talk of too many people always turned into a lump inside me
Now im beginning to realise the more people that come to understand the sacredness of all life the faster true effective change will unfold for all
Conciously
Outstanding, I can't get enough of this. Wow.
Wow, that was deep. Can't wait for the next one.
Listened to this last night and it was amazing. I'm now back again to listen for a second time.
Thank you Nate and Daniel for a beautiful and brilliant conversation, and for sharing your friendship with us.
Regarding the conditioned need for certainty, maybe we need to cultivate Keat's 'negative capability' - "when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts, without any irritable reaching after fact and reason...."
The pods in this series are amazing - each impossibly more inspiring than the previous one! Very grateful for you two and the work you are doing. You give this 63 yr. old woman hope! ❤
Great episode. A conversation to hear several times. You are doing a great and important job with these talks. Thank you.
Great discussion on a different way of thinking and being from a deeper interconnected understanding and place of delayed gratification as related by the 2 Marshmallow reward.
In summary:
Not against 'bad guys', but for the thriving of life
Not cynically sure of doom or optimistically sure of survival, but from a place that has been in each and understands them but also admits what we don't know and that there are things we don't know we don't know, which may include potential solutions..
Also recognizing we have no fundamental security. Life is fragile and that is okay, and when you are present with that you can appreciate the sacredness and interconnectedness of all life
Stellar episode again!
Great conversation!! One suggestion for your next episode would be discussing the role of Power in the broader Ecology and Energy situation. I disagree with Nate that powerful forces in our society are energy/materials blind... in my opinion, they are fully aware of the role of all of them at the foundation of our civilization. They use their power to hide its fundamental role and, at the same time, they keep creating new narratives to entertain/worry/scare ourselves (climate change, warfare, social media, new democracy, etc)
Russel Brand's podcast has been very good in that spooky territory, especially this year with all of the insanity going on in the world...which looks like it's not just 'random'...the more there is, the more contrived/deliberate it appears to be. Brand is like a progressive 'Alex-Jones-lite' lately and it's great.
Great dialogue Nate and Daniel. As a post-doomster, I resonate with the POV of less suffering for myself and my fellow 8 billion Homo sapiens on the planet. If each couple would commit to having only 1 or 0 children, it wouldn’t take too many generations for a sustainable population to emerge. That is a big and maybe impossible ‘if’ of course. That said, adaopting the POV that we can’t know with certainty what the future will bring is the next best option for maintaining “sanity”. When there is no hope there is always hopium so enjoy it while you still can.😎
Thanks for your work. It informs and motivates. In short, it matters.
Keep fighting the good fight!
@Greg Gardiner My immediate thought is that you are probably being sarcastic (given the use of all caps and no commas).😅
But if you are really interested in hearing my thoughts:
I assume you are referring to 42:18, where Daniel mentions “deep time in nature” (which he finds to be particularly valuable), fasting, meditation, breath work, and psychedelics (which he advised some caution towards). I think these are all practices that reduce the “internal dialogue”, aka the “monkey mind” (I could be wrong, but I think these is some research to show that, in neurophysiological terms, that might correspond to reduced activation in the default-mode network), and, based on accounts by people who engage in these practices, they result in what feels like a different state of consciousness (one that somehow feels calmer, clearer, less fearful, more engaged with the senses and feelings, more empathetic, more “connected”, “deeper”, “more real”).
Daniel also said that “you can’t just get the cognitive models across”. This is very much in line with 20th century philosophy (see for example Merleau-Ponty’s work, or Wittgenstein’s lion) and the modern embodied cognition framework, which has been gaining in popularity in cognitive science since the 80’s. In a very short and overly-simplified manner: there is information (“scientists say that exercise is good for you and I trust scientists”), then there is theoretical understanding (“I’ve studied physiology and sports science and I understand the mechanisms and the effects of exercise on the human heart, metabolism, brain function, etc.”), and then there is embodied knowledge (“I have clear, first-person, experiential knowledge of how different my body, my emotional state, my energy levels, and my clarity of thought are/feel when I exercise regularly vs when I don’t). I think Information and theoretical understanding tend to have very limited motivational force, whereas embodied knowledge can be transformational (but it cannot be “taught”, it requires first-person experience).
🙂
Love you two and the cattle truck story sums up how I feel too in a nutshell. I hope many others feel the same way too. Couldn’t have put it better myself!
I believe that externalization of waste is a pattern through the whole economic system. Thant's how every business up to a level of employee does. And when it scales to global economy, the external is basically nature.
Thank you both for your time, your knowledge and your deep connection to everything meaningful. I wish I was exposed to non-duality in my early life, although I always felt a deep connection to nature and naturally eating healthful food. I didn’t have the language or thought process to express that feeling of connection. The last 15 years learning from many various teachers (such as yourselves) has completely changed my reality. I am also an optimist by nature but I also acknowledge and accept the shadows of our humaneness.
Thank you, Nate! I learn so much when listening to you and the conversations between you and Daniel are mind blowing and inspiring!
I have re listened to so much of this phenomenal interchange. Thank you both for sharing your views. Such immaculate clarity from Schmachtenberger for so many of the most difficult seeming elements of the global picture. I will share and share and share.
Nate, my friend (I hope to call you friend, the most sacred word to me), you are so beautiful outside and in. You feel so deeply. Or at least I feel you do, ha! At 52:45, you're about to say "when you were 12 to 15" and you look incredulous. It is apparent to me that you were having a moment. Anything I say is simply justification of what was apparent to me. My impression. I didn't choose my impression and I cannot choose the components of justification available to me. But if I am anywhere in the ballpark, you had a great depth of feeling then. Perhaps a marvel at how deep one can be such as your friend Daniel, perhaps how much is possible from a young age, or, as I would think, because I have a fat ugly ego, "look how much better he is than me". You look left and right, mouth slightly agape (funny that is the Greek word for love), eyes slightly moist. All I saw in that moment was your beauty. Your depth of feeling. It was inspirational. You'd think Daniel's story of his Peta/Greenpeace work was inspirational but two things 1.) I have heard it maybe a dozen times from him, always good to here (but no surprise) 2.) He cannot be compared to the rest of us. Only in that he is a human. Not that we can reach to that level (we as other humans). But it's not that story that was so beautiful, man, (because it was inaccessible), it was your reaction to it that was. If all the law is inscribed on the human heart (Bible), you have shown us yours and for am grateful for that for as long as I can remember and draw breath. I just wanted to tell you you're beautiful man. Thank you for being in our corner. For doing this. Thank you for holding the grief and that hurt and worry and tragedy as sacred. I don't know what the conclusion of my statement is. I just wanted to let you know I see you and what I see is beautiful and I am have always believed, aha, my 15 year old revelation (I am 29 now), that people should be told how beautiful, how wonderful and how admired to they are. You are that, friend. Godspeed.
Also wanna thank Daniel for his courage: even though he has shared that story many times of his superpowered home schooled younger self, I have never heard him speak of the fact that he essentially had villainous thoughts afterwards (controlled population decline is always villainous, IMO, I would need to be convinced otherwise and have heard no completing argument). And even then he overcomes and turns them into a good! But it took courage to say that, less so because he can hide behind 15 year-old naivety, but courage none the less. I wouldn't reveal that, because I am not brave. But his sacrifice (of face) raises us all. It is a service. Thank you Daniel, friend.
Edit: never heard the cow story man. By the gods that was devastating. I know he said how and why he didn't suicide. But I really wanna know how how he did that. I worry for myself in that way. Not a cry for attention. If I had courage I would have done it already but I am coward. So I wanna know the practices, philosophic and interactions required to have overcomed that. If Daniel shared that I would be greatly appreciative.
This is a kind of speaking jam session between two great instruments. Thank you Nate and Daniel. Keep playing.
You guys give me life! Thank you for this deep and important dialogue!
Keep it up and keep fostering solidarity because compassion and altruism is the glue that holds society together, the foundation of the human household. In the present dog eat dig rat race to the bottom we cannot have a healthy society. The way out is to teach people to advocate generosity and organise it with Free Collaboration Networks to meet everyone's needs unconditionally.
The purpose of society is to meet people's needs. We are naturally collaborative, contributive and kind unless there is a risk of not meeting our needs, then we fight tooth and nail.
We cannot build a better society while fighting eachother because we have to win over jobs and clients so as to make ends meet. Fostering altruism is how we solve this
Wow THIS! "It's harder to say I acutally don't know, so I'm obligated to work on it the best I can still not knowing" This is a real gem here. This is where I find hope in the face of imenent demise. What a privilege to here this wisdom of how do we sit with the paradox of the fragility of life and the beauty at the same time. Also, the description of the 3 treasures of Will, Heart and Mind is profound and I can start to see his congruency with Taoist understanding, which I'm going to assume is intentional and not coincidence.
Loved it, thank you! just keep going, ep 5, 6, 7… however many. I’ve watched nearly all of Daniel’s videos on youtube and these convos with Nate are all among my faves
Daniel has such a beautiful mind and gentle heart. Deep wisdom. The sacredness of Life. 🙏💙Thank you Nate and Daniel.
Thank you for sharing your honest and humble dialogue. It is helping me greatly in my journey and I believe your interviews in this medium are fostering the growth of a community that can help nuture the evolution and the growth of an improved level of sensemaking that can help us emerge into a new level of being.
This went straight to my heart. Im allways hopefull about mankind after listening Daniels insights, knowledge and wisdom. Nate build up so fantastic information egosystem. Thanks for the discussion Nate and Daniel. This serie is pinnacle. Hope to listening part 4 at some point.
"Evolutionary psychology is riddled". Spot on. PZ Myers would agree with him on that score.
We need more expert generalists, not only specialists (SMEs)...
53:00 very honest share about a “dangerous” view- thanks for sharing Daniel
So fitting that Nate said this episode was like an everlasting marshmallow. So deep and profound. Beautiful, humbling, awe inspiring. Made me feel fully human.
“The bird fights its way out of the egg. The egg is the world. Who would be born must first destroy a world. The bird flies to God. That God's name is Abraxas.” - Hermann Hesse, Demian
I read this book about 20 years ago in college, at it was completely life-changing for me at that point in my life. This particular quotation has meant different things to me at different times in my life since then, and now, 20 years later, I am tearing up hearing Daniel’s response to despair, existential crisis response and “certainty”. That quotation has once again shifted and gained additional meaning to me, again at I time where I needed it most.
I have been following this series since episode 1, and when I hit play on this one, I was expecting another very interesting, highly intellectual conversation. While it was also those things, this was a spiritual journey.
Nate, when I was in my young 20s, I was also very influenced by “Ishmael” and other books by Daniel Quinn. Like many of his readers, I was left wondering what to “do” with this information. Your work is the best stuff I’ve heard since “Beyond Civilization” and brings that conversation to the 21st century and this decade. Thank you!
When Daniel has explained his empathy with animal suffering it has made me cry.
So empowering!
This was super powerful. Thank you Nate and Daniel
That was a great talk. I think or at least I hope my group is at that stage 1:06:43
Thanks Nate, you are what keeps me sane. And Daniel's logic and insights are flawless. Please keep it up.
42:20: holy shit. Once again you’re blowing my mind. Daniel, you just made it so clear to me why I am the way I am. I always wonder why I care so much more than so many of the people I know seem to. When I was nine years old my aunt and my mom took me and my cousins on a trip across the country in an RV. We stopped at all of the major brown signs… Historical monuments, national parks, national monuments, battle grounds, all of the great lakes, and national forests. At nine years old I stood at the rim of the Grand Canyon with my mouth hanging open. I hiked Bryce Canyon. I went hiking on the first day of summer in Bermuda shorts and a tank top with snow boots on because we were at glacier national Park and there was 2 feet of snow on the ground but it was 80°. I spent an entire summer in complete awe and wonder at the beauty of this country and this world. What you say here about that being the birthplace of caring about all of this. You really did, you just blew my mind. Thank you.
I love learning from Daniel
What Nate said to Daniel around the hour mark, 2000%!
Thank you both for what you do!
Factory farming, slaughter houses, and the whole rest of it makes one wonder whether so-called "humanity" is worth saving after all. Not only is our "way" of life unsustainable, it's not morally sustainable. Why work so hard to prolong it? Why not welcome its finally ending?
Yes, it is not worth saving. Women dominate voting in universal suffrage democracies, so employment, custody and support laws are bias towards them. No point fighting to save that. Old ladies also want overpopulation to be a taboo topic, so politicians can't discuss it, or they lose their job.
Zoom out and keep zooming out. Isn’t it all incredible?
Yikes
Another excellent dicussion with Hagens and Schmachtenberger! I get two marshmallows! Thank you both so much for spreading the word about the Polycrisis and working towards a solution. 🙂
Lovely to hear my two favorite podcasters working together to find ways to help the natural world. I live in a thriving forest with all manor of critters and cannot imagine life without wildlife so thank you both for all your efforts.
So immensely grateful for this inspiring dialogue! It touches all the relevant points. So great to feel an immediate and deep connection to both of you, so eloquently, wise and compassionate communicated experiences, insights and concerns. And at the same time humble and open to the fact that there might be unknown things we now know nothing about. Reaching a still point where we become aware of the fragility and sacredness of life, and moving on from there, to the best of our abilities. Thanks for sharing your wisdom!
from mountains of nepal 🙏
Thanks to both of you !
Please keep it going ...
”Our willingness to sit in uncertainty” and ”Our desire to be effective” and the ernestness and quality in these… ❤
This must be where the work starts in my mind. Without it it is likely the effort will derail.
As a species we seem to be attempting to drive a toaster through a car wash.
Best we identify the driver and the destination and even our necessity of the outcome of the trip ?
Our sentient conscious awareness as the Stewardship of Life itself will direct us if we investigate these ‘latent’ aspects within.
A spiritual advancement in Humilty and reverance as LIfE is front and centre to creating a Wisdom which serves, cooperates and collaborates the spirit of mankind.
We Can and Must Awaken to our Delusions and Dysfunctions as the World 🌎 is showing us clearly we have priorities arse about …..
great podcast Guys 🙏👍
Keep it up
Cheers 🍻
Listening to Daniel talk about false certainty. I certainly suffer from that, but the experience and the other side of it for me are both a little different. The other side first: even if we are certain that a tragic outcome is coming, we can, through individual action, maybe affect how bad it is. Like right now, we are already passing 1.5C, but that don’t mean the fight is over. Our current actions might mean The difference between 3.2C and 3.3C, and for that reason, we must not stop trying. Also, I don’t feel hopelessness in the face of the coming tragedy; I feel EAGERNESS. If we can’t fix it, I want to be here to see it when it all burns down. It’s more bitterness, I guess, than hopelessness. If you tell me it can still be fixed, you’re taking away my light show.
I listen to all of your conversations with Daniel Schmachtenberger, but this is perhaps the most beautiful and, for me the most helpful. I usually don’t bother to comment, just give a thumbs up or down, but S’s way of framing uncertainty (a feeling I struggle with) was exactly the support/validation I needed. Please continue to have regular conversations with him. I understand I can listen to him elsewhere, but you play off each other well, and listening to you together is enjoyable and valuable.
Thank you. Episode 5 queued up for Dec 19
Thank❤🌹🙏 you, Daniel and👍🌱🎓 Nate! Complexity of the issues before us is daunting😢
A couple moments I stopped on my walk while listening and locked in to what Daniel was saying. Felt like time stopped. My heart and my mind have been struggling recently and I needed this reminder. To be brave enough to die on the right hill.
Thank you and much love
I've been checking for this everyday! Thank you so much
So basically we need everyone to have at least one positive guided experience with either LSD or psilocybin. Got it. Let’s start there.
i agree with Daniel. Connectivness with the universe and feeling that deeply is probably the only way humans will change our destruction of ourselves and the world that provides all we need to exist.
Technological advancements are great but I really liked when Nate said you should always have 2 plans in place or a backup plan. There is only one model that exists currently in technological advancement. But what would happen not “IF” but “WHEN” there is a large CME that breaks off from the Sun. WHEN we get a “Carringtonlike” event like in 1859 the satellites would be wiped out along with our global electric grid. I have heard not even a whisper about this from people and when I mention it among “Techies” they stick their heads in the sand and say that will never happen. As good as technology can be and has saved, it will cause much more damage and deaths than it ever saved if there isn’t a backup plan put in place. Also with the current instability showing in our magnetic field the chances of an CME impact affecting technological advances increases daily. You can’t put the cart before the horse.
Tech is no more immune from unforeseen circumstance and the vagaries of human frailty than we are ourselves.
@@liamhackett513 If the world that exists now existed in 1859 during the Carrington Event there would be much more damage than a few telegraph poles catching fire. I don’t believe one death occurred in 1859 but the results would be catastrophic today.
@@briansprung can't disagree with you. I come from a suburb. It's a cloister that soothes and distracts far too many people from the reality of the modern. world. It doesn't surprise me people are switched off.
Thank you for this message
It feels good to meet, even on youtube, 2 other humans who are aware of the existential risks while meeting as post tragic optimists. I realized somewhat recently, that given the inherent uncertainty of historical trajectories, that we cannot be certain that only ruin awaits us. It certainly looks bad, and may well be that ruin awaits us, but regardless, I will go down appreciating life and readying myself in case a moment arises that my personal action can make a difference. Many thanks both of you.
Daniel spoke superbly.