Disappointed in Aamna because she reads a lot of book and do research but for this topic Aamna has blind folds on her eyes. Please watch some videos and do some research on the findings.. watch Matt Walsh and Raja Zia ul Haq videos
She is looking forward to karan johar. There isn't any control in who you are attracted to. These people are using their platform to promote more fuss and vulgarity in our society
Your mulla's were against technology like loudspeaker ,mobile phone etc now they are on TH-cam and spreading radical islam thoughts .Why despite of 50+ muslim countries in this world but still muslims are in danger ?
I am surprised at Amna justifying an extramarital affair just because of fact that it’s with trans person by saying there was lack of spark between the couple…The film just seems to serve the purpose of normalizing a relationship between Haider and Beba ..Once it’s received well they will develop central theme of it .Review didn’t discuss perspective of people opposing it though Hassan raised few relevant points
Listen again. At 26:50 Amina says "aur aap ka ye flaw hai, if you give into that desire, Haider is flawed ofcourse" She is not justifying infidelity, she is just explaining the cause.
@@user-rand0m1234 no, watch 15:30 she definitely was saying how cheating is oh so normal. It was Hassan who disagreed with her and categorically stated it’s wrong no matter what.
She isn't justifying it..she is saying what is the truth. Whether it's right or wrong is based on your conjecture. But that is what an extramarital affair is.
I think you should have called Raja Zia-ul-Haq for the discussion on Joyland from an islamic perspective. Even if they don’t glamorize homosexuality, they definitely normalized it by making you sympathize with the guy. How did you guys miss this point?
Sometimes the motive of a film is not to give a message, it is to tell a story, here they are telling a story of a family, of a man, of a wife, of an intersex, it's a story. And secondly, TAKE OFF YOUR PINK DREAMY GLASSES AND LOOK AROUND, PEOPLE SLEEP WITH TRANS PEOPLE, THEY DO ADULTERY, THEY GET INTO ILLICIT RELATIONSHIPS, THEY GET INTO INCESTUOUS RELATIONSHIPS. To jisne galat kerna hai wo zoron shoron se ker raha hai, or ye cheezain already bohat phel gayeen hain, it's just that we don't talk about it! Doesn't mean these things don't exist in Pakistan. Society morally is had tak corrupt ho chuki hai ke apki soch hai, so stop blaming this film for normalizing it. Jiska apnay nafs par control nahi, jo ke bohat se logon ka nahi hai, wo sab haram kaam karainge
When you say normalisation, then you are saying this isn’t normal, so explain how homosexuality is also found in other animals, not only Homo sapiens? Plus a story about someone not of your gender or sexual preference should not be addressed, so do we ignore them, do we lock them up, do we do what Hitler did to them? Who gave you that right to negate other human beings? If you oppose it don’t go and watch it, just think these people have heterosexual behaviour constantly shoved down their throat, and yet we can’t be accepting of their stories! How petty minded are you?
@@mehakriaz1588 I think the motive behind this film is exactly what the original commentator has said it is, to normalise trans and homosexual relationships. If someone asked the director about his opinion on such relationships he won’t even be able to deny it or say he doesn’t agree because he probably holds positive opinions on it. However on the other hand I am shocked people are acting very surprised to this sort of depiction on screen as if it doesn’t happen in our society or it’s unheard of and it’s some foreign planted concept. Pakistani society has a lot of bad apples, I’ve seen and heard enough around me to know that. My mother’s cousin ex husband was gay and was having an extramarital affair with his ‘friend’ who she caught red handed. My friend’s neighbour got caught having an affair with his mami, and guess what! The mami ended up divorcing her husband and marrying her former nephew. Also isn’t this the same nation that literally hires transgenders to perform at their weddings for an male audience? Don’t they perform at stage shows where men attend to watch? I mean, there’s so many videos on TH-cam about it! It’s duplicitous to act like none of this happens.
So promiscuity, infidelity, gender fluidity and eventually suicide. Yet its being claimed to be a 'beautifully nuanced portrayal' of the average Pakistani family and their struggles?
At least 3 of the things you mentioned are in Pakistani dramas. Wasn’t Mere Paas Tum Ho about infidelity and promiscuity? It was highly rated drama and most watched drama of it’s time getting high ratings. Jalan was watched a lot as well (although received negative press and tried to be banned) and in that it had similar adultery theme this one had and suicide. I would say what’s shown on our tv is just as bad because families watch it together and millions watch dramas. Joyland is an festival film with a niche market, the same market that enjoys Netflix and prime sort of content and had it not been for the noise around it (from the western nod of approval or the protests against it here) it would’ve come, flopped, and people would’ve moved on.
Anyone who wants to see the film to judge it for themselves can, as it’s online and in it’s original quality. I can send the link to anyone who can’t find it. However, I will no longer be following SH, because it’s clear they have no issue with this film and are supporting it, whereas if you watch the uncensored version of the film any Muslim cannot be in favour of such a film ever. Things the film include that are morally reprehensible; - In the original international version there is full on kissing between Biba and Haider and soon to be sex scene - Haider is gay and impotent, in a scene he wants Biba to sodomise him. Biba gets angry at Haider for him thinking she is a guy and she’s the one who ends their affair and chucks Haider out - Biba alludes to wanting to get surgery done, which suggests she is actually transgender - There is a masturbation scene of a guy on the street - A scene of Mumtaz, Haider’s wife self pleasuring herself as well and Haider’s brother walks in on her - Mumtaz is having an affair and falls pregnant. The person she is having an affair with I assume is the guy who purposely bumps in to her at the Joyland amusement park - Sania Saeed’s character is utterly confused, she starts off with giving sermons but in the end wants to live with Haider’s father - Sarwat Gillani is playing the typical sister in law but of course she can’t be that typical so we see her puffing on cigarettes throughout the film - The back up dancers of Biba all drink alcohol, so do the Khushras - They even show one of the Khusras Biba lives with getting married to a man - Only somewhat sane character is that of Sohail Sameer, but what’s the point when in the end they try to present him as the bad guy, how predictable - In the end Mumtaz kills herself because she is pregnant with someone else’s child and Haider also drowns himself because he no longer has Biba or Mumtaz It’s important to mention this version was not shown to the censor board or cinemas. Overall, this film is just a bunch of sexually frustrated people, made by a clearly sexually frustrated director. It is vulgar and crass, and it does try to normalise adultery as well as tries to make us sympathise with Mumtaz and Haider for cheating. It also does show LGBTQ material. Finally, #BANJOYLAND !
It’s a lot more nuanced guys. It’s not just about inspiring things in wider society. It’s about normalising them. I’m very surprised this point is seemingly lost on you.
@@zahroohussain7460 The film is infact all that what they are trying hard to prove its not! And even a person who havn't watched the movie can tell it from their given spoilers! Its funny. And yes i've been watching them since long, didnt agree to everything they say earlier as well but still expected them to talk a bit more responsibly.
Amna is being hypocrite here. She's saying there is no spark btw haider n mumtaz relationship that's why he is attracted towards someone else lol. If same will be seen in a tv drama then she'll be the first to criticize the man lol. But here no comments.. Lol they're saying Haider k sth end me bura hoa.. lol kia bura hoa? in the end the poor lady lost her life
@@AmyKhan123 exactly. I'm even talking about the biba. Extra marital affair hi kisi sorat acceptable nhi. secondly biba was a transgender and relationship with him definitely supports LGBTQ and they r saying kaha he LGBTQ ka support lol ajeeb
@@aishkhan566 yeah it's really disgusting to think about it even and no chance we will watch this kind of rubbish and promote it never When these guys are not accepting character of shamsher who did nikah which was done in wrong way but supporting all kind of haram relationship not acceptable
These guys are heavily impressed by west criteria/standards of the good film. Since this movie got award by west and will definitely win Oscar because of the topic they are just impressed by this .
Hipocrisy is yesterday only they were lauding Qatar for taking a stand ... And today they themselves don't have gut to say what is right ... Trying to whitewash everything in sense of "emotional need"
Examples of things that are normalized that "seem harmless" in movies/dramas & around you: In Islam dating is not allowed, but you see teenagers-yound adults casually going on dates now. Showing your hair is forbidden, but most women don't cover anymore...not even a dupatta on most. The only person you are allowed to show your body to is your spouse but is that what's happening now? Look at the award ceremonies, or weddings even. Look at how we have turned a blessed event into days of sins. Touching a non-mahram intentionally is not allowed under any circumstance. I am appalled when people talk about or show actors touching, hugging, kissing each other on screen. Are we forgetting religion for art? Do we forget that this is a test? Another thing normalised on TV is domestic abuse, getting slapped by whoever or to do as you are told because you are a woman ...it happens in some households but dramas showed it sooo much i had friends of friends sharing their stories at a gathering of them getting slapped like "you know these things happen in every house" no it doesn't sis. I don't think it's fair to call a whole country homophobic over a movie we can co-exist as long as boundaries aren't pushed, you are in a muslim country, of course most muslims are not going to be ok with a movie showing everything that is forbidden in our religion. For example look at the shit Saudi was facing for years because its laws were "too strict and backwards" according to the rest of the world but look at Saudi now as their laws have been slightly flexible, people are celebrating Halloween...in Saudi...where the sacred city lies. Whether you accept it or not...we are paving the way for a lot of things against Islam for future generations as we normalize such acts. It doesn't matter if the conclusion is that they both die a horrible death or left as a cliffhanger to interpret whatever you want it to be...you bringing such things on such platforms because it happens to a 0.1% of the population you are saying it's fine because it happens, you are not the only one to feel, or do such things. Those who justify this will continue to do so but it is what it is and as a muslim it is our duty to try an educate those who may have gone astray in any way we can. We are all sinners and may Allah forgive and guide us all but let's not try to literally call upon the wrath of Allah swt. Please remember to please your creator, not the people in this duniya. Our deeds are whats going to answer for us. Be careful what you say and act upon. As days go by you realise more and more why Prophet Muhammad S.A.W cried for this Ummah 😔
Agree with you, but you’ve missed out a lot more sins that are so normalised in our societies. Interest/riba which our country runs on which is equivalent to waging a war against Allah, intermixing between the genders, premarital relationships, music, dance, lack of veiling, women wearing makeup/perfume in front of opposite gender, violence, murder, rape, backbiting, which are happening in dramas, films, and real life. And yep, we’re definitely in the end of times and Qayamat is very close.
Sorry hassan and amna but u guys are supporting wrong thing joyland won the best award on LGBT category how can we say anything in favour of this kind of film which is promoting haraam agenda. Dunya mein phle km msle hain jo esi films bam rhi hain
Yeh log Har 2 3 saal bad is tarah ki koi chawL Marty hain . . Agr itna haram karny ka shok Hai in ko to Europe me jao udr raho jo haramipan karna Hai tumhari marzi . Lekin pakistan me yeh sab nai chaly ga . Majority aik tarf Hai or yeh 500 1000 bandy jo yeh bakwas harami zinha dekhna chahty hain
This is something they didn't answer or anyone who is supporting this movie..is it international media or award people are crazy who didn't see it wasn't about transgender or we as hassan always say pakistani audience are stupid.....we all can read between lines,noone is niave here.
@@tabinda460 so why do we raise our voice for the immoral things in dramas. We judge drama if they show anything against culture then why should we give loose hand to films.
Also, Maria B has raised fair points. She has seen what the normalisation of trans has done in the west. And even there are westerners who are fed up with it. Have you not seen the attacks on JK Rowling, and conservative voices like Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson who have spoke out against normalisation of trans and how bad it is for society.
@@farrahmir6557 yeah, it’s disgusting what they’re exposing kids to. I remember being a kid and I didn’t even learn about LGB part, let alone the T (trans) part at school. Things are getting a lot worst, feel sorry for the new generation of parents actually having to deal with it. Add in Netflix series, TikTok, social media etc promoting and normalising this stuff as well. Eventually it’ll lead to a very big backlash, from their own people. Enough is enough!
After all these discussions, I really got to know that Pakistanis can’t differentiate gay/lesbisn from trans. Specially on this movie, they are referred as khwaja sirha. Khwaja Sirha people are actually disabled. They have the sexual organs of one gender at the outside and of the other gender in the inside. That’s why people say ke inki badduaa se bacho. There is an old drama named Khuda Mera bhi hay, its with ayesha khan who gives birth to a khwaja sirha. Watch it, it’s very well explained. THEY ARE a Part of our community. How can we treat disabled people like that and have to fear of normalising them? They are there!!!! They exist! Disabled people do exist.
@@ixa.m9915 I’m born and grown up in the west and no heres no such problem. Here are gays and lesbians and people who change their genders because of psychological problems (which isn’t accepted in pakistan in most cases) and then there are trans people who are disabled. But you wont see them here, as you see them in pakistan as „khusrey“. Because they are treated normally. Here, they don’t give away there trans kids and no special communities are built, like in pakistan the khawaja sirha community, because it is accepted as normal, which actually leads to „no promoting“ at all.
@@ixa.m9915 their* Secondly, if you really think that a movie promotes this so called „agenda“ and people will get inspired by that, then I think everyone who thinks that, should reconsider their imaan and what they even are, that they can’t hold against a movie lol. Secondly the movie is 18+ rated and not for „innocent kids“. If anyone above 18 changed his/herself due to „such an agenda movie“ then I feel sorry for them
Just because the west is full of far right bigots and misguiddd liberals doesn’t mean treating a minority group with such hate and disdain is wrong! Show compassion as you would do to other minority groups who are not like you. Hitler did horrendous things to the minority groups like Jews, gays! Do you want your prejudice to lead to destroying or making these people vulnerable to attacks?
For the first time in all these years... something haute has disappointed me. Not because i don't agree with them but because this sensitive subject has serious religious issues and you guys have absolutely ignored them just to favour the so called ART.
Giving examples of Dramas is exactly justifying one wrong with another wrong. It's like Sharaab, Rishwat, jhoot, Milawat and Zinna etc to already society mein hain hi to homosexuality b aa jaey gi to kya hi hojaey ga. Aap logon ki to terminologies hi thk ni to discussion to baad ki baat ha. People who have physical condition like this are called Eunuchs or intersex. Word 'Transgender' is used for people who knowingly opt to change their sex. It can be done by changing your appearance or going for an actual surgery. Sharaab peena, Rishwat lena aur zinna karna koi flaws ni hain, yeh Gunah hi hain. Isi tarah Calling Haider just Flawed is actually giving him a clean chit. Plus this movie is produced by Sarmad and we all know what sort of role he played in churails.
Actually your terminology is not that accurate either, the word eunuch is generally used for man who have been castrated, not only for Khwaja sira’s. These were mostly male slaves who were born with male body parts but were castrated before they reached puberty. So basically changing their appearance by going through surgery. There are many examples through Islamic history, some of them were even tasked with looking after the prophets tomb , as well for guarding harems. If you have seen Turkish dramas, you would have seen them in it. Also sarmad Khoosat was murdered in churails and cannibalised by his wife for his sins..Don’t know how that promotes homosexuality.
@@s23416 I know what Eunuch means but this same word is used for Khawaja sirra. Primary word is intersex which should be used. Plus people who are intersex are identified at birth and perhaps you don't know but more than 80% of these intersex people can be treatable. Just because intersex people exist, doesn't mean there is a 3rd Gender. It's like having a 6th finger so you don't count it as Normal. I know what happened in churails and that's the problem. You think showing that sort of an end justifies it but it absolutely doesn't. Again it's justification of one wrong with another. It's Normalizing Homosexuality. It's called conditioning of our minds. To alter our thinking. The biggest example is taking and giving bribe in our country. It has been Normalized so much that we don't even think it's a problem. We think it's a Given.
@@ahsanarshad918 I do know they are treatable, but do you now how they are treated? through surgeries and hormone treatment. This is why Iran is the hub for sex-reaffirming surgery. Homosexuality exists in the world, as does pedophilia, even to counter these things we need to occasionally acknowledge they happen. Sodomy has been touched upon in all the major religions. I think it should be touched upon in basis in light of our islamic and cultural traditions or the western take on it will become dominant. Also your bribery analogy makes no sense, bribery exists because it's a norm in our society but it's barely touched upon in our media. In fact its underreported in the news or in the creative arts, I think it showed be depicted more in movies and dramas and these people should be vilified.
Don't compare it with drama, drama always has a learning lesson at the end. in joyland Father is doing haram kari with her neighbour. The hero wife doing sex with his brother and the hero itself is in transgenders love. Tell me and look around your area or family how much of these cases you heard about. Probably not even a single case in your whole muhalla. This is not common in our society we should not show this to our people on big screens. They just took an award by highlighting that Muslims society is bad.
Simply it’s not evident to you because it’s hidden! Most heterosexual or homosexual hardly do things in the open!Just because you don’t know of it in your area doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist!how shallow is your comment?
@@gerryburntwood9617 Ye bat nahi hoti. Esa American society main hota hai jis ki ap ibadat karte hain. Kuch aurton hoti hain society main jin ka kam hi gossiping hota hai. Phir bhi esa case kabhi nahi aya. Ap ko koi pata hai ap kay muhallay main ?
@@IjazAhmad-bd5xt sadly, you have no rights to tell others whether they can be trans, or gay is anything, it’s between them and their maker, not you! It’s also not up to me to tell them what is right for them or what isn’t right for them! Can you show me in my comment where I said it’s right for them to do this?
@@gerryburntwood9617 But Allah will question us on the Day of Judgement. There is a hadith in which Prophet (PBUH) tells (I don't remember exact words this is explanation)that if you see something wrong , stop it as you will be questioned "What you did to stop it?". And the one who let their country people getting involved in this are even worse. And thirdly , other people get influenced by such movies. And Muslims as an Ummah has a right to protect others from crime.
Joyland should not have just left that Transgender character as ambigious whether the person is an "Intersex or Trans". There is a big difference between the two and there is a whole conversation going around about it. And in this time a movie coming like this without mentioning clearly is a very wromg thing.
Hi Hassan and Amna, I always love seeing you and respect your reviews regarding movies and dramas but now I have a few questions. Can you please reply to them? Thanks! 1. Are we normalizing to show that an old woman (Sania Saeed) spent a night with Haider's father in a locked room in the absence of everyone? 2. Two times Haider and Biba kiss each other? And once Biba tries to open his pant to move further, Haider turns back to Biba to show his feelings like he also has the same feelings that Biba has? So it means both are the same in sexual orientation. Once when Biba talked to Haider regarding surgery then Haider didn't show acceptance towards it. 3. Someone is masturbating on the street and Mumtaz is watching. At that time, Haider's brother came to her and then we get news of her pregnancy after a few days. This is an indication of having sex of his brother with Mumtaz and Mumtaz commits suicide due to this reason and guilt. How could a mother kill his child without any solid reason? 4. Usage of vulgar language, although this is common in our society but is it really needed to show the dark side of our society? Just to get sympathy from the international platform.
Lol, she means one of the daughter in laws is unable to have a boy child and it causes problems for her. There are certain things in the film that are familiar to the average Pakistani family. But yes, it’s definitely got lots of things which are not!!
Sorry, I m not agree with your review, Mumtaz commit suicide because it was not Haiders child but it was illegal relationship with his brother in law and there is no point to support that a Man could fall in love with transgender, disappointed with your review Aamna,
The saddest part is that when people don't have a certain experience in their lives, they think others haven't experienced it as well. The reality is that the people are living these lives. There are people in the world who are married and might have cheated on their spouses with people who identify with whatever sexuality. There are married men out there who cheat on their wives with people who are not women. This happens in this world. The end is chaos and dark but it happens all over the world. But the importance of storytelling is that these stories reach people. This is a reality. We are in denial that these stories and these people exist. This is human experience that people live regardless of their or our moral ethical and religious values and realm. Life is complex. Just because it's not our experience, doesn't mean it can't be someone else's.
100% agree. And if someone is uncomfortable with this idea...that person clearly KNOWS...that this is sad reality...that is the reason of being 'uncomfortable'
@@The_Crafter_official so you don’t have to watch it! Moreover Allah also tells you about what is ‘haram’ in heterosexual behaviour yet you watch dramas, probably Netflix which shows quite explicit dec scenes( 50 shades of grey cones to mind), you can’t be selective in what Allah says, because you should then stop making your dramas/ films with such scenes noted to be ‘haram’! Stop being a hypocrite!
Hassan your point is completely right about why Haider has this desire to be intimate with that "transgender" but not to his own wife who loves him and cares for him. Amna's justification is not right. You can't just get attracted with anyone unless you allows that to happen. Kbhi Alvida na kehna was a film, not reality.
Anyone who wants to see the film to judge it for themselves can, as it’s online and in it’s original quality. I can send the link to anyone who can’t find it. However, I will no longer be following SH, because it’s clear they have no issue with this film and are supporting it, whereas if you watch the uncensored version of the film any Muslim cannot be in favour of such a film ever. Things the film include that are morally reprehensible; - In the original international version there is full on kissing between Biba and Haider and soon to be sex scene - Haider is gay and impotent, in a scene he wants Biba to sodomise him. Biba gets angry at Haider for him thinking she is a guy and she’s the one who ends their affair and chucks Haider out - Biba alludes to wanting to get surgery done, which suggests she is actually transgender - There is a masturbation scene of a guy on the street - A scene of Mumtaz, Haider’s wife self pleasuring herself as well and Haider’s brother walks in on her - Mumtaz is having an affair and falls pregnant. The person she is having an affair with I assume is the guy who purposely bumps in to her at the Joyland amusement park - Sania Saeed’s character is utterly confused, she starts off with giving sermons but in the end wants to live with Haider’s father - Sarwat Gillani is playing the typical sister in law but of course she can’t be that typical so we see her puffing on cigarettes throughout the film - The back up dancers of Biba all drink alcohol, so do the Khushras - They even show one of the Khusras Biba lives with getting married to a man - Only somewhat sane character is that of Sohail Sameer, but what’s the point when in the end they try to present him as the bad guy, how predictable - In the end Mumtaz kills herself because she is pregnant with someone else’s child and Haider also drowns himself because he no longer has Biba or Mumtaz It’s important for mention this version was not shown to the censor board or cinemas. Overall, this film is just a bunch of sexually frustrated people, made by a clearly sexually frustrated director. It is vulgar and crass, and it does try to normalise adultery as well as tries to make us sympathise with Mumtaz and Haider for cheating. It also does show LGBTQ material. Finally, #BANJOYLAND !
They are confused too and trying to elaborate discuss and review such filthy content..God forbid if happens in their family what will they do.... The agenda of the movie the award category and haram relations arent enough for them to boycott it...
@@rabbiyahamid3676 exactly.... According to amna the relationship between the main lead started becoz he got attracted toward khwajasira becoz that khwajasira provided emotional support.... That's what I understood.... And I am genuinely confused is it oky to go towards these kinds of relationship??? And isn't this homosexuality....
@@mairajamal4953 its scary that people claim to be practicing muslims while normalizing love between a man and a transgender. Very disappointed by Hasan and Amna.
@@mairajamal4953 even we have siblings agr koi apni shadi mein khush nhi tou kya allow krengy ye sb krna when divorce or khula is way to gt out of unhappy marriage.. They are fabricating haram relations wd emotions care affection.. Amna se tou expectation nhi thee bt Hassan k reviews ne bhtt disappoint kia..
I havent watched the movie and i dont think it will release where i live but whats the fuss about representing a khawaja sera. I have grown up in pakistan and they were seen a lot, mostly begging. They are so marginalised already. We all know that there are men interested in khawaja sera/ khusras ( i dont like this term) and they are sexually abused by men and if Haider falls for a khawaja sera isnt that depicted what happens in real life? How hypocrite!! Movie na dekhein agar nahi dekhni. Well i live in the country where everything happens around me. I still am a muslim and stick to my believes. Uper se pehly dekh tau lo bahi phir ehtajaj karo !!
A character who slaps women is very wrong, is a bad character, and we shouldn't normalize such acts (agreed), but in Joyland, a character is doing infidelity and that too with a trans is not a bad human/character and is just grey. Really??? Infidelity is a great sin which is an unpardonable and reprehensible sin. There are many movies that touch grey areas and this movie is one of those which is alright but that doesn't mean sexual infidelity, homosexuality etc. will come under grey area and won't remain a major sin anymore, definitely a greater sin compared to a slap. Also, such characters should be shown to have a bad ending, especially in our part of the world, left alone without a wife n kid, and 50/50 chance of suicide wasn't enough.
Yeah I don’t think I’m in favour of this film. I think I have an idea of the agenda behind it. And the support it’s getting from the West, we all know why. That’s enough for me to look at it with a side eye. However, I do think people can come across as hypocrites in this discussion, and we do have a very weird and pick and choose sort of relationship with the idea of halal and haram. I hope everyone who has raised their voices against this film also ferociously and actively speak about the the fact HIV is spreading in our society, thousands of little boys are being raped, and there is still a lot happening in our society which we just don’t want to confront. I hope if anything people will start speaking up against the downfall of these sort of relationships and desires, and actually make steps to protect boys suffering from it, and people from acting on it, but alas I highly doubt anyone actually cares beyond this film!
Despite the very clear concepts of right and written given in the holy Quran, do we not see all sorts of heinous crimes and sins in Muslim countries ? To my mind , the filmmaker has probably only portrayed a slice of reality and left the audience to chew upon it. Neither does it promote anything nor normalize it. It only forces us to confront it and deal with it. It already exists, in numbers we don't know, but we turn a blind eye and pretend It doesn't, because conversation around it makes us uncomfortable and we prefer not to voice an opinion. Period.
This review is such a disappointment, how casually you guys are portraying it as if nothing happened. Making it a story of every house. May Allah be kind to all of us and give us Hidayat. Why do we feel so cool in negating the rules that Allah has defined for us Muslims, at least Burai ko Burai kahein. Don't normalize illicit relationships by making it a story of every household. Mumtaz did suicide because she regretted her relationship with her brother-in-law and was pregnant with his child and you people are making it a story of every household.
No they are not that naive .They knew it for sure just sugar coating it for the time being .Once it’s digested by audience will come up with it more clearly .That’s how things are normalized
In Qatar during FIFA ,rainbow bands were not allowed as it’s against their religion…They can make it clear to people who are not Muslim ..And we in the name of art are promoting,justifying every filth with our hypocrisy .. Our so called liberal film makers cannot touch on any political agenda as they will be held accountable for it but they can easily promote a grave sin and stand against religious beliefs of vast majority as they are getting awards for it by Cannes😢
@Hassan what happened ur stance about normalising the effect of horrendous act at the end of drama/ film....e.g your current views abt KTKG...y r u ignoring that they r trying to regularise the concept of extra marital, illegal sex(zina) and transgender relationship....so hypocrite of u guys
In ko bus ek burai rukwabi hay drama/ film main k aurat ko tapper na para! Lekin aurat ko Masturbate kerta hoa dikha do movie main!! (Main ne unedited version dekha hay because i live in USA)
Absolutely loved the review. I have watched the unedited version and it’s a brilliant movie. Two important scenes that define the intent of the film: First: when Haider watches Biba all covered in blood in hospital. This draws attention towards how khwaja siras are tortured and murdered and are at risk daily. Second: after Mumtaz death, the burst out of her jethani how everyone in family was responsible for her death. Draws attention towards lack of women wishes over their own lives. Mumtaz wanted to work and could not. She didn’t want a child and had to bear one. She was trapped and wanted an out. Unfortunate out. The entire comment section is disturbing. Please get some human biology classes to update yourself. Talk to certified doctors and learn on biological and sexual orientation.
That was for the commenters who dismiss the existence of khwaja siras. I mean no disrespect but if you read comments you will note people lack the understanding of how some are biologically born such.
At 15:30 well said Hassan. Aamna, I’m very confused. You seem to now think adultery is some very normal human emotion/act. Sure, adultery is something anyone can fall into. But to say the act doesn’t make you a villain? I would definitely disagree with that. It causes deep pain and heartbreak to your partner, it disrupts and breaks up a family, it’s betrayal of the highest level and let’s not forget, it’s one of the biggest sins you can do which the saza is moat. I’ve seen all your reviews. Sometimes your points I agree with, but here I don’t. I feel Hassan actually gave a more clear cut stance and didn’t try to normalise it at all. I feel like after years of normalisation of adultery in our dramas and the sanitisation of it, people don’t even think it’s wrong anymore. How sad. They only think it’s wrong when it’s when a woman does it and even then I fear we’ll reach to a point where we will start being lenient with that as well. Where are we heading! I remember always speaking against MPTH, refused to watch it for this reason. And refused to watch Jalan too.
acha mujhe aik bat ki samjh nhi arhi logg es movie ko itna higly promote qqq kar rahy ,, aur yeh samjh rahy esko Canon festival m award mila hy tu esko kis category ka award mila hy ?? agr app canon 2022 ki movies jin ko best movie ya phir best director ka award mila hy wo zara check kry best director movie Korea ki movie (Decision to Leave) ko mila aur un m se aik movie jis m Boy from heaven ko bhi award mila aur yeh wo movies thi jo Kay Top Class ki movies m ati thi es m Joyland ko qqq Aik bhi award nhi mila???? Aur special Queer ka he qq award mila???? Aur phir Rotten Tomatoes par Esko jo reviews mily hy Us m es movie ko Specially LGBT ka nam mention kia hy yeh bat ghoor karny waliii jo kay hamry So called Critics ko samjh nhi rahy ,, Joyland m biba Ka character aik Bilogical Male bataya gaya hy Aur na kay trans ya phir inter-sex so man se Woman m transfer hoa aur bad m Haider ko maloom bhi hota hy ,,, Movie m bht kuch aisa hy jis bina faltu kay dala gaya hy msln Bhabhi ka Dever kay sath WTFFFFFFFF o bhai sab es se acha tu Ullu App waly ya Phir ALt Balji way content bana rhy hy ,,, ha agr movie banani he thi koi Strong Point he uthaaa daity ,, Aik Transgender ko jub Bacha hota usko kia problems ka Samna karna parta hy uski bachpan se lay kar end tk ki journey dekha sakty thy magr appko aik male dekhana tha jo kay male se trans m convert hoaa hy ,,, this is disgusting
We are society where Shamsher from KTK is a HERO figure for large group audience, and sonay py suhaga that Joyland released in this country who depicts the story of a man in relationship with a transgender....how can someone say that its not an LGBTQ movie... Yay to saree'han gunah ka khulay tareeqy sy parchaar hai.. May Allah bless all of us with Hidayah...
Kisi agenda k through ye film bni hai is film ko produce kisi pakistani ne ni kiya sirf direct pakistani directer ne kiya hai aur awards b mil jate hain hype bnai jati hai takay film release ho qk sarmad khosat ki pehle b film ban hui thi is liye is ko hype di.. U fools
With all due respect, in my opinion this film does trigger and damage the masses as this has been always a discussion that cinema and dramas affect masses and You have been an ally in this thinking. If the transgender is loved by a man, it is something that is such a big sin in Islam that we cannot have support for it.
If Biba is intersex then she is allowed by religion to carry the gender identity she feels close to. Now can't a man love a female intersex?? I m just asking..does it mean an intersex has no right over love, but then they are human beings and their physical structure was made by Allah.
Omg what a hypocrite you are! Many heterosexual behaviour you see both in Pakistan and abroad are million times worse as they affect more people! I’ve never heard of a gay guy raping a woman but heterosexual men are known to rape gay men and women, girls etc I suggest you condemn much you see on Netflix or your own films/ dramas fraught with things you perceive as damaging society!
@@s.s.m9936 look intersex people have right to chose what gender they associate with more PHYSICALLY and mentally. Biba has physical appearance of a man which does not go well with them saying he’s intersex woman. Now that we re clear with this if biba was intersex woman then of course they re allowed to get love, marry have kids etc but not with a married man who wants to do zina.
@@ayesharaheel5677 not based on physical appearance but genital features and emotionalinclination. And of course we can't see the genital features of a character in movie so let it accept the way they show it and they show her as woman. Now the discussion is whether she was a transgender woman or intersex woman, unfortunately they didn't clear it so the ambiguity will remain. But if she was portrayed as intersex female, then it wouldn't be important, how much feminine she appears to you or me, she would be accepted as female n has a right over the love of a man. But I agree a married man has no right to have physical relationships with any other woman, transgender or intersex or any other normal woman. But the thing is people aren't talking about it because it shows extra marital affair, as it is very much part of our movies n dramas, they are raising voice because the woman in this affair is happened to be a transgender or intersex.
I want to ask from you guys why a boy is attracted to transgender not his wife and a pathetic point that one of his brother kid was sleeping with the couple that’s why they are not attracted towards each other
She commits suicide because Mumtaz was pregnant with Haider's brothers child....that's why he was first okay but then cried uncontrollably when Mumtaz told him that they are having a baby....because they haven't done anything for so long....
But that doesn't imply that it is his brother's child. they might be crying because they didn't want the child. Is it told in the film who the father is?
Pornography is an abuse of women, it portrays crass perverted males fantasies, which doesn’t hold true in real life, and many boys exposed to pornography thinks that is how they should behave with their wives, except it’s not how their wives are brought up to behave! There are literature on the abuse linked with porn industry, including child abuse!
I agreed 💯 with your discussion tbh, I mean every other scene was disturbing and had lots of nuances and things to say aloud despite being silent. Joyland: my flawed Review... Alright, so I ended up watching Joyland eventually and I just wanted to share my viewpoint about it. Firstly, I reckon whatever rumors that we have heard about it, some are true to quite some extent. They did show a trans (naturally born so) getting married, no sex change operations or anything happened, though definitely talked about. I reckon just a couple of sensual scenes coming from a Pakistani movie, would have been reason enough for some folks to get it banned... But if that's the criteria, how come all kinda English movies can be screened in Pk? 🤷♂️ If all Pk viewers can watch Scared Games and Mirzapur with all the R rated language and all, why not Joyland? This movie can be disturbing at various levels especially considering PK industry, challenging all kinds of unsaid norms being followed in our societies. It depicts most of the possible "Toxic Traits" found in a typical Pakistani household and culture. (mainly Punjabi shown here since shot in Lahore). Trying not getting into any spoilers, I found the storyline, the direction pretty impressive, with the nuances portrayed with subtle hints at times aiding the storytelling and its coming from someone who has consumed plenty of media. One could say that this movie was made for intelligent audience not your average Joe. Amazing Acting skills were portrayed throughout the movie. Facing the Taboo topics was the highlight for me. Its a movie that's portraying the real face of the society just like Manto said that I am showing them Mirror and that's why they find my stories vulgar. But deep down we know, as seen in news, all kinds of shit is happening in Pk and this movie is just highlighting that so things could be changed for better. It's not like they are televising it on National TV or anything, it's just a movie made for adult audiences and should be seen as that, not a promotion of anything... One does not convert into what they see in a Movie... 🤷♂️ So just chill out and watch it as an art expression, not a school lesson!
I really don’t understand why people are complaining & making a big issue? These kind of dramas have always been around including Parizaad , where bubbly character was clear lesbian and they also showed transgenders & these people made it a hit! And so many other dramas & films so what’s the issue now? This movie would’ve not been a big deal but this hype made it and now people curious to watch. People shouldn’t judge without watching and be open minded to be aware of their surroundings. Have some critical thinking. This movie sounds like just another movie a story of some people. So acknowledge good work. I’m looking forward to watch this movie. I really like realistic Art movies.
Zindagi mein kuch SUBJECT aisay hotay hein jisay society mein aam nahi kya jata, usay parday mein rehnay dena acha hota hay. Below the belt ke subject parday mein rehnay dena respect rakhta hay
@Ray Brook I will because the bullshit beliefs cause so much pain in our society. Small thinking of people like you compounds and creats a society where real issues like child abhse,animal abuse is not discussed or taken action against and a movie that is just a story a form of art is being given so much hate and attention. We have bigger fish to fry but ofcourse whatever threatens the patriarchal society norms will always be shunned
@@RIMXSHA care to explain how a movie about a man having sex with an intersex person while ignoring his wife and about infidelity 'this art masterpiece ' is threating patriarchy and helping women cause ?
@Ray Brook its exposing the reality of alot of pakistani households and the problem you people have is its creating awareness. This is just a story of a household being told so you not being ok shows a deep insecurity . Are yoi gay? Seem so triggered
Its not about promotion or glamourising it. Its about DESENSITISATION. The more you see such things in a negative/positive/neutral light the more NORMAL or common it becomes. THATS where the issue is. And whether you admit it or not. Haider and the transgender if they had physical intimacy it was homosexual. So its about desensitising your audience to something thats absouktely a big NO for your religion and culture.
Please Hasan and Amna clear my confusion if biba is khusra,khawja sira then why u are not calling her intersex why u guys using the word "transgender"? Transgender is not only Haram but it's a grave sin. I have no concerns about other things in films like character etc my concern is that joyland is showing man relationship with transwoman means grave sin even if they are showing 0.1% but I m against this movie. I cannot be a part of this crime because i scared from Allah's azaab. And tell me one thing why Shahbaz Sharif is concerned about joyland?why he make committee on joyland? Why same not happen with Javed iqbal? Beacue Shahbaz Sharif is puppet. puppet of America
In parizaad, from my understanding, Saboor was potrayed not as an intersex or Khawjasira but as a transgender. She was a female who felt that she was a male.. so, she left ended up with a guru. No one critized or questioned that. Why is it so easy to get away with a hug on TV, so many famous ones in our dramas, but blurred in a movie which is 18+. Saboor can be a trans in parizaad at 8pm but deeba can't be one in a movie that one has to pay for before watching...Help me durdana wala scene was a hug and all about durdana's sexual desire.. it wasn't blurred? I guess joyland just needed to have a humayun saeed then it would have been ok, sb justified aur agar special thanks khalil ur rehman ko keh detai tau housefull hota 🤯
The thing is that Saboor's character's sexuality is not discussed. So that's why everyone was okay with it. Yet i think majority of people think she is an intersex rather than transgender. And intersec rights are there in Islam but being transgender is not allowed
@@haroonafridi231 Deeba in film has not shown to have changed anything.She is shown to be a khawjasirah. Yeh humari soch hai k hum us ko trans samjhy ya intersex.... but saboor was a female who wanted to be a man.. that is trans! You don't need to change yourself physically to be a TRANSGENDER.. it's how you identify yourself to be and saboor identified herself to be a MAN. Just imagine, if there was a boy in place of saboor. Osman Khalid butt, born male, but dressing up as a female, nail colors, makeup hum foran uss ko khusraa samjhey gai.. lekin girl identifying as a man is TOM boy?. That's the problem.
@@mairashabbir5274 TOMBOY girls end up with a GURU?? TOMBOY girls don't marry?? Revist the episode where saboor expresses her bebasi to be a Girl girl! Dekhai tameez tau guzarni nahi hai aap k pass sai..ab aap nai parizaad digest kar liya hai aur damagh ko kuch pata nahi thaa iss liye ab aap ultiyan kar rahee hain...
@@haroonafridi231 there was no bad conclusion in parizaad for Saboor. Her parents accepted her, didn't marry her.. n let her live the way she wanted to live i.e. as a boy. Ab parizaad uss ko 4 crore dai deta tau dubai sai gender changer kara leti 🤣 plz parizaad nai utaar diya hai aap logo k halaq sai 🤣 joyland has shown a bad conclusion for someone who cheated on his wife with a khawjasirah
Hasan your review is best I love you don’t try to be cool like Aamna does you have values integrity and character and I love this about you. Aamna on the other hand thinks fidelity is common & clearly in favor of it. Like it’s sickening seeing Aamna with no character of her own & has no ethics. Aamna when you said “Bus main nahi hey” about infidelity and cheating on your spouse are we animals person who cheat & has no control on their desires don’t normalize it!!!
"Something Haute" Amna n Hasan, nice watching your review remember the scene where Haider was ridiculed not only by a group dancers but also by his very own friend who offered him this job. On that very moment, Biba came as Protector and outcast through her Valor which was absent in Haider Demeanor. Hence, this is also the reason Haider concepts his love towards Biba. yes, Haider quits the job as a dancer + abandoned Biba but he never told/discussed with his wife" Mumtaz" There was nothing new in Haider n Mumtaz life, when she worked in parlour she has something to share with him"who was like a 🏠 help but after that it was a routine, boring & empty life.
Love love the Kurta @Aamna! This color suits you 😍. As someone who has struggled with weight - I have always been told what color or style I shouldn't wear and how to wear my Hijab or hair. Looking at you, expressing your feminism through your style and words, it sends out a message to hundreds, if not thousands, of women that when we embrace ourselves, beauty just comes out. Now at the age of 38, I tell people that I was a late bloomer and didn't bloom until I was in my thirties. I love myself, my body, my choices and appreciate my support system, while ignoring toxic people, comments and situations. On behalf of all women from our social background, I want to thank you. And if you are ever in New York, please please do a meetup. #onthespot
Also @Hassan, you mentioned that you saw some women in hijabs at the movie. Just wanted to clarify that women who take Hijab, aren't always doing it to present their level of piety. For many, it's a cultural thing and for some it's their identity. So they can watch movies that arent fitting societal norms and stand up for human rights. As someone who takes hijab as a form of identity as a Muslim in America, I believe in people's right to express themselves and live however they chose. Hijab doesn't make people narrow-minded...upbringing and exposure does. Just my 2 cents and I mean absolutely no offense. 😊
@@drshireen1 , i am born Hindu and i totally agree with you regarding your views on hijab. And i was mortified at the nonsense that went on in my country recently when the forced removal of the hijab ( in educational institutions) was being debated. Given the nature of the male gaze , i would have happily worn one in my younger years. I love the inherent modesty of the garment. More power to you !
Transgenders have been shown in many dramas in positive rolls, but their love life was never touched, and the character was blurred to make it acceptable. Recently Bubbly in Parizad was a transgender, Shamim in Mrs. Mr. Shamim was an effeminate ( also haraam), or transgender( showed aids too). No one blamed them for promoting lgbt. Joyland did not hide the love life of a trans, and the queer palm tag triggered the red flags for people, otherwise everyone would have taken the character as an innocent intersex, khwaja sira. The movie is not a mass entertainer. Such dark, morbid, depressing movies cannot be accused of glorifying or promoting anything. I think the ban campaign created hype and curiosity. This is called judging a book by it’s cover. 😊
Don't compare it with drama, drama always has a learning lesson at the end. But in joyland Father is doing haram kari with her neighbour. The hero wife doing sex with his brother and the hero itself is in transgenders love. Tell me and look around your area or family how much of these cases you heard about. Probably not even a single case in your whole muhalla. This is not common in our society we should not show this to our people on big screens. They just took an award by highlighting that Muslims society is bad.
if the father is morally corrupt, the sons would follow him. Daraar , MPTH ( biggest block buster), but again they never showed a positive ending, so no harm. As far as reality is concerned, have you never seen these Kwajalein sira ( mostly transgenders), satanding on roadside side being picked up in cars, bikes? Mazaars are , specially abdulla shah gazi, are the biggest venues of homos*xuality, according to reports. We know these things happen, just want to brush them under the carpet. To correct anything, we first have to admit that the problem exists.
@39:28 Amna is so obtuse to find out who to look for to find out how to lead a life. That's why this movie is so artistic for them. As a Muslim should we have any confusion? While Hassan is saying in America kids are not ready to study gender fluidity. Which I assume implies that Hassan is ok if kids are being sexualize since younger age the only issue is parents are not ready yet. 🤦🏼♂️
Dear HASSAN am very impressed by your growth as a critique. In your last video you went into technicalities of Intersex or Transgender communities who is what etc. But here you are amplifying nothing but the fact that everyone should be allowed to live with dignity without getting into the nuances. Its either the effect of JoyLand or your growth. Either ways respect. 😎 Also Dear Aamna, you have explained the gist of the movie so beautifully like how the movie about human desires and emotional deprivation. My only request is for both of you to watch this movie - Super Delux on Netflix. It's on Transgender and was super hit in India. Love from across the border. Hopefully we will get to see JoyLand and Maula Jatt in India 🇮🇳
Guys I actually decided to watch the uncensored version of Joyland after watching your review because I trust your critique of any piece of art. However I am appalled at what you guys tried to sell. Your review was totally biased only because you saw Festival De Cannes flashed at the beginning and you decided to hold your tongues on any genuine and sensitive critique which this film required. First up does it NOT show that Haider was in a homosexual relation??? Big LOL. I am not sure what was shown in the censored version. He was looking to be sodamized by Beba when she decided to throw him out of his life. Is he a GRAY character???? He is outright BLACK. Call it what it is - he cheated on his wife. What are you trying to portray here Amna? Your marriage doesn't have a spark then go have an extra marital affair. You felt like an outcast then go lip lock with a trans because they are from a marginalized part of society???? That's exactly the kind of gender fluidity, immoral desires which the west HAS NORMALISED through their movies and which DO NOT have any room in our religion. Humans are flawed, YES. But we do not have to show them performing Gunah e Kabeera to prove that they are flawed. The rule should be simple from now on - if your defense of an argument begins with oh this wrong already happens in the industry then we should let this pass through the radar as well then there is a problem. Case in point if the filth like Mere Pass Tum Ho was passed on as a masterpiece then this should to. Two wrongs do no make a right. And only because we did not 'protest' at that point creators have come back with the audacity to shove this down our throats. And if it's worth anything Mahwish from Mere Pass Tum Ho was sold as an outright black character, Shaheer Ahmed of Daraar is Black and you have the audacity to come and say that Haider of Joyland is Grey???? Just because his portrayal is more nuanced? Now you know why our dramas have to act out OTT negative characters with all these exaggerated mannerisms and expressions. Because if they wouldn't even educated people like Amna will start calling these characters as grey. I bet if Shaheer Ahmed of Daraar is shown to have mommy issues in the next episode then Amna is going to call his infidelity as grey. I am convinced now that festivals like these need to see more grit of a third world country to be able to appreciate their art. Hassan did elude to this but I felt he was more wary to elaborate on this further. But putting a trans character in place of Beba was indeed an agenda to get a pat from International festivals. No Amna, Saim does not feel connected to this community, he is actually using them to sell misery porn. If he really cared about progressing THEIR agenda he would have shown this as a trans story of someone who comes out of this rugged part of the society and goes on to become a success in a renowned field. But you bet my life on it that it wouldn't win an award at Cannes because that would show a positive image of our society. And Hassan was right. There was absolutely no connection of Mumtaz's character arc to her suicide. Which movie did you guys watch?? She did not know anything about Haiders and Bebas affair and she was pretty cool abt her husband doing a mujra. Her only problem was that she ended up pregnant and her father in law was not letting her work. Do you know how many women in Pakistan are going through the exact same thing?? Are you trying to glorify suicide for them because the movie did try to make us sympathize with Mumtaz?? That character just had to commit suicide to check another bullet to sell this to International Festival Jury...a tragedy. There you have another ingredient to make a misery porn which will do so well at Cannes festival - a tragedy which led to a suicide. Poor Mumtaz (not). Also, by this standard, the next character arc for Irha's character in Daraar IS suicide. Will you be okay with that? Haan?? Finally on the casting which you guys totally brushed under the carpet. How is Mumtaz character your quintessential Lahori lower middle class girl?? Not talking about the actor. She did good. But I have been born and brought up in Lahore and there was everything wrong with her characterization. I absolutely could not relate to her characterization and could not place her in any strata of punjabi society. From her dialect to her complexion to her body type to the choice of clothes to her hair. Everything was totally out of character. And no don't tell me you guys haven't talked about each of these attributes when previously trolling casting of some of our dramas. You even had a problem with Mahira's non-voluptuousness for MaulaJatt but Mumtaz and Nucci seemed okay to you???? There was definitely a need for more Punjabi dialogues between the family members because that's exactly what typical Punjabi families do. Anyways, for anyone who has decided to read up until here. This film was not needed for the Pakistani cinema and society. It had an agenda to go for International film festivals or win an Oscar. Because the criteria over there to win as a Pakistani film is very different. And at this point, you are just turning a blind eye to negate this outright reality.
s the hassan said in last i am also missing the connection of mumtaz's suicide with the story and mumtaz never said that she dont want a baby, it was haider who said that mumtaz is not ready for a kid and his father called him impotant on that.
Waise Pakistan mai basically sab hi bigra va hai politics se le k moral values se le k religious conflicts se le k sab kuch bigra va hai . Pakistan mai rape cases bhi hoty hai bacho tak k sath bhi lekin iska matlab ye nahi k ab aap lgbtq bhi promote kre bss isi ki qasar reh gae thi . Mai bhtt hi shoq se apke reviews dekhti thi aur dekhungi lekin is review discussion se mai agree nhi hun . Jo bhi hai kuch bhi hai lkn Pakistan Islam ki bunyad pr bana hai aur islam mai ye sb allow nhi hai PERIOD. Baqi reh gae mumtaz ki baat is movie mai uska relationship apne brother in law k sath tha and she was pregnant with him not with haider. Pata nhi hassan ne ye baat q nahi batai aur Amna also didn’t say anything lekin afsos hua review dekh kar but koi nahi everyone has their own way of thinking. May Allah guide us . Ameen Lots of love to both of you .❤
Amna I'm so sad to hear this 39:40. I really appreciate when you speak against violence in dramas, but it's sad to hear that you don't apply the same rules for deen. Would you call the behavior of shamsher in the drama before, an "art"? Ofcourse not, you too strictly condenm the act, then why not do the same to thing in this matter, why different rules for islam? If you publicly condenms shamsher's acts then why not publicly condenm that the relationships shown in that film is totally wrong?. You say that no one said it's right but you didn't condemn it too! The matter is not that whether they promotes it or not, the problem here is that it will normalize showing movies or films with these types of stories, and if we normalize it by showing in our movies then it will also become normal in our society and then our kids and their minds and hearts. For example, if the directors will show the kiss scene in one of the dramas, and no one condenms it or protest against showing these types of things publicly, so another time any other director will not be scared to show this in his dramas, and that's how we normalize things. If the first drama in which slap shown was condemned,then no one would've ever be able to show violence in other dramas, but unfortunately it has normalized and now we're not been able to protest against it because every single drama contains it. That's why we want to condemn those extreme different types of fahashi shown in that film. If this normalize, our family structure and islamic values will be ruined, which is dangerous for future of the country and the hereafter. I personally don't like andrew tate much, but one of his quotes came into my mind while typing my comment: "If you're tolerant of everything, you stand for nothing" Hassan atleast we want you to understand it.
Hassan to answer your question why Haider fell for Deeba because in Homosexuality one has to be more feminine and usually trans person becomes more feminine
Not convinced yet u guys tried hard to convince your audience and to normalize watching a man having sex with trans ,just think for a sec if something in your family do this Khuda na khwasta
Very well explainec Hasan and Aamna i would love to watch it but not sure if it is releasing in UK. Hopefuly it gets released on Netflix maybe . well done. The thing is such subjects are sooooo taboo about desires and relationships which cause more curosity which in turn has lead sooo many people watch x rated films which is not right as well. Is par bol rahey hain to jo content is sey bhi ghalat hota hai us par nahi boltey
Hassan and Amna may be haider is bisexual. Why have you not thought about it? Human sexuality is also grey for some people like you always say. Love you both
14:44 THIS. This is what these kinds of movies do. They make you feel sympathy or empathy for these kinds of characters. Today, you'll feel this for a man who doesn't have a spark in his marriage and starts an extramarital affair with a trans. Tomorrow, they can show you a movie about a pedophile, a serial killer, or a rapist, and you'll feel sympathy and empathy for them. This sympathy and empathy slowly and gradually lead to acceptance and normalization of a sin. People involved in it will have the courage to publicly accept it as their life choice while other people will accept them as their human right. In the end, you'll be living in a culture where gay marriages will be acceptable. What's the point of making a country on the name of Islam if you have to do the same unislamic acts in it that's happening in the rest of the world?
Sorry to say Amna but I completely disagree with you here that no one is going to get inspired to be a homsexual or transgender after watching the movie. It's same when you guys discuss that slapping or emotional abuse is being subtly potrayed in the dramas. And it's normalizing it. It's exactly the same thing. Please don't contradict your own point of view.
Guys try speaking sense all you want, unfortunately our society will always rank "homosexuality" a horrific unspeakable sin, which must not be spoken of, whereas every other vice being shown on Pakistani tv/film qualifies to be suitable art or entertainment. It is ridiculous to believe that movies like joyland will normalise homosexuality in Pakistan when it is already so commonly practiced here, in addition to rape, pedophilia and sexual violence. People are treating the release of this movie like gay marriage has been legalised in Pakistan. Showing the reality of society, that too in adult rated films, is not something new in Pakistani cinematic content. Also let's face it, if banning porn websites hasn't done this society any good, what's banning a censored and choppy version of Joyland going to do.
There’s always a starting point before the floodgates are open. You and the Pakistani progressives need to stop with the whataboutism. Or admit openly that religion doesn’t drive their life and whatever they are preaching is pretty much a small % of what the masses believe in.
@@ziajami are you honestly in the position to say that if someone is not in favour of banning a particular film, then they should admit that religion isn't driving their life? I can understand why people are against promoting such films especially in the current political climate and can respect their opinion. In fact, it probably shouldn't have been made for cinema in the first place.. Pakistani society was never going to welcome it given previous recent bans. But I don't understand the moral superiority. I just want to know where we as an Islamic Republic will draw the line. This movie is not a "Ek larki ko dekha" or "chandigarh karay aashiqui". There was no agenda being peddled or acceptance of homosexuality being preached. But like they both are saying, Pakistan isn't ready for such content and we're always going to be uncomfortable discussing the ugly reality of society.
@fzm9910 What would be the driving force behind supporting such content? Especially with the intention of normalizing it? Pakistan has never claimed to be a liberal secular state, why is the backlash a surprise? Also my statement may be presumptuous directed at you, and for that I apologize. But I’ve been following the progressive liberal Pakistanis for quite some time and I’ve seen a pattern and my statement is the result of my observations. My problem is with the hypocrisy, these people are free to support any content they want, but don’t be duplicitous about the intent, masses follow our celebrities and influencers and that’s dangerous. At least if they make it clear from the get go that they are liberals/atheist/non practicing Muslims people would be more cautious of falling for their words. The team of Joyland literally shared Quranic verses to support their movement, while they want to completely ignore chunks of the holy book that condemn what they stand for. Deceptive and ill intentioned.
He raised the question why she committed suicide and Amna who has watched uncensored version told him the reason that she was depressed 😮 instead of fact that she was carrying her Jaiths child.
I just saw the “uncensored” version on TH-cam (excellent print btw) and I was so much in awe of the movie that I couldn’t come out of the realm of Joyland for a good couple of hours - I was spellbound by the sheer brilliance of this masterpiece - so proud of team Joyland - now waiting for it to bring the Oscar back home -
This film is not about homesexuality so how could people say k homosexuality ko glorify kia gya ha its about infidelity a guy who could possibly have an affair with another woman but here he got involved with a khujasara but at the end he lost his wife and his unborn child because he cheated on her he got published for what he did I don't understand why people keep say LGBT pr ha no its not
Amna should have gone and seen the censored part as well. Hassan doesn't even know what was butchered. Also sexual orientation or gender is not a psychological struggle or a choice. I think the film is an invitation to learn about these concepts. Haider is sexually fluid for sure.
@@gulsaanga4533 Do u feel bad for mumtaz? as her husband was cheating on him? will we normalize extra marital affair? will we normalize sex with a transgender?
@@aishkhan566 you feel bad for Mumtaz more. Actually you feel bad for each and everyone, but never for a minute you think that Biba and Haider didn't deserve it. You feel bad but you somehow justify the outcome. It's just a story. And as Amna said you relate to at least one of the character.
After listening to this review, I wish I could watch and support Joyland's plot in a world where hate prevails after all. Unfortunately, I cannot watch this being in New Zealand.
Challenge for both amna and Hassan.. plz tell me the example of single person in ur family like this... Plz we want to listen how is it the story of every house??? Plz do let us know about this if u are so true to ur concerns..
I'm so proud of Aamna and Hassan for speaking so candidly about the movie! I LOVE AAMNA for EVERY SINGLE WORD SHE'S SPOKEN W.R.T. THE MOVIE! It's sad how we prevail in a society which can blindly critique absolutely anything WITHOUT EVEN WATCHING or grasping the main learning of a film. THANK YOU BOTH OF YOU! Thank you Something Haute!
I want to watch the movie and I watched your last discussion on joyland and I agree with Aamna's review but I've heard that the international awards that this movie has gotten like representation in Cannes, are not in general category but specifically in lgbtq category. Is this true?
it is true but i think we need to remember that the LGBTQ+ term is made by the west, and for them gay, lesbian, trangender, INTERSEX (a person who is BORN with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t fit the boxes of “female” or “male") ect.. for them it's all under the same category
galat ko galat khna seekhain...aik hilal rishty kay hoty huay koi b na jaiz rishta ys soch ky ban lena ky hilal rishty mai spark ni h??kya pagal hn ap log??agar ap apni married life mai nhi rhna chahty to tariqay say rishta khatam kr dain...is tarah to jin aurtun ky shohar bhr rhty hn unhain b khawja sira ky sath relation bna lena chahiay??ni??agar ap dono mai say kisi ke family mai aisa koi ho to phr kya karain gay ap dono??
I don't think people in Pakistan understand what trans is. An justifying it. It's men, who are dressing as a women. They were born with male genitals. Not female. Which in Islam is so wrong. Then a man falling in love with another man. Wrong. Amna and hassan, Allah swt has given you this, put you in a position to educate people as people follow you. Not take them in the wrong path. You will be held accountable for this too. Also just because it gets appreciation all over the world doesn't mean it's great. So does Israel get appreciation from all over the world. An we know what they think of Islam.
یعنی آپ کے کہنے کا مطلب یہ ہے کہ couple میں spark نہ ہو تو وہ کہیں بھی جا کے منہ مار سکتا ہے۔۔۔ کیا justification دی ہے بھئی کمال ہے۔ I know my comment is not valuable but still i think i should share my point... Heejraas are not allowed to have sexual relationships in islam and that's it. Discussion closed. To hell with art and it's boundaries. Had hi hogai ha matlab.
I came back to this video to appreciate something haute for standing their ground after seeing other entertainment portals opinions on Joyland - they commit sins themselves all day and don't appreciate criticism for it but choose to further alienate and marginalize a minority using religion. Our fingers should be clean before we point at others. You knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion with your audience yet you chose to stand by what you believe in. Truly the most intellectual entertainment portal we have and I'm so glad for it. Just wanted you to know your courage makes you a respectable platform as journalists!
Sexuel content ghusana zaruri hai film main? uske bagair zyada film chale gi aur ban shan b nhi hogi. With all due respect Sarmad Khoosat sahab please dont try to be "Karan Johar" of Pakistan, we know you are a very talented artist please make films without homo, gay, lesbian content. Abi recently Mrs and Mr Shameem aye thi first episode main laga maybe Nauman Ijazs character is gay.. but no unho ne boht hi ache tareekay se AIDS jaise senstive topic ko dikhaya aur us main ye dikahaya gaya k is beemari se insan ki kya halat ho jati hai aur dosri taraf ye b batya k ye sirf sexuel relationship se nhi hoti aur bi wajuhaat ho sakti hai. Ab us series main koi sexuelity nhi dikhai gaye. In Joyland Biba k character ko wo Haider ka acha dost b dikha sakte thay jo morally support kare. Ya agar inho ne aisa content hi banana hai aur ban b nhi hona chahte phir Zee5, Amazon prime ya kisi aur international media pe chala den.
But people said on Twitter that Mumtaz was carrying her brother in law son. She was having relationship with her brother in law. And it was not haider son.
I feel like the censorboard butchered it. I also didn't like the aspect ratio of the film. Apart from that, Haiders character was beautiful. I don't think I have ever seen a more sensitive man or such a softer version of masculinity before. The film isn't even about Biba or the alleged affair- it's more about gendered roles in society. Haider is shamed for being too soft, Mumtaz is forced out of work because of gender roles and the whole family wants her to be the baby maker of the next son of the house. Sania Saeed can't express her desire to be remarried because it's considered inappropriate in our society.
Love you guys and watch every review and video that you both do but for some strange reason I don't want to watch this video as it's giving me anxiety. This whole trans thing has made me very very uncomfortable to watch this movie or hear about the reviews. Just doesn't feel right...
Yes every type of person in LGBTQ is completely haram in Islam but Joyland is not anti Islamic movie and it has nothing to do with it Movies ka purpose ideal conditions show karna nhi hota , society ko mirror dikhana hota hai It 's a story of our society. Hamai society mein zinaa bhi hota hai , logon ke extra marital affairs bhi hotay aur homosexuality bhi bohat ziada hoti hai .Hamaray deeni madaris mein , hostels mein aur professionally bhi homosexualty hoti hai . Agar aap iss movie ko ban karwana chahtay hain toh phir toh bohat saari movies ban honi chaahiyaein SOOD Islam mein haram hai aur Allah ke khilaaf ailan e jang hai .Hamara poora banking system sood par based hai .Jintni bhi movies hain jin mein koi bank ka scene ho unhein ban kar dena chahiye because it is anti Islam Dance Haram hai jis movie mein dance ho usse ban hona chahiye. Sharaab Islam mein haram hai toh har wo movie jiss mein sharaab ho usse ban kro. Maula jutt mein murder ko glorify kia hai usse ban kro.Baap ka badla betay aur uss ki family se lena haram hai . Suicide karna haram hai toh Sang e Mah ko ban kro Agar aap sirf isse ban karwana chahtay hain then it is called hypocrisy In the whole movie they donot called her Transgender. She is shown as a khawajasara ( it may be intersex or may be transgender because it is not clear in the whole movie) Aur overreact toh hum aisay kar rahey hain jesay aisi story pehli dafa ai hai.Iss saal Pakistani series MRS AND MR SHAMEEM mein aik gay character show kia tha jis ki wajan se Shameem ko aids hua tha .Last year Pakistani series QATIL HASEENAON KE NAAM mein bhi aik gay character aur uss mein toh unhein ne openly show bhi kiya tha .ALIF ALLAH AUR INSAAN mein transgender ko aik larki se pyaar ho jata hai. Hamaray bachay jo CARTOONS dekhtay hain unn mein LGBTQ ko promote kiya jaata hai, unhein toh hum ne ban nhi kiya kabhi. Netflix ki har doisri series mein LGBTQ ko promote kiya jaata hai aur hamari poori youth dekhti hain .Netflix ko toh hum ne Pakistan mein ban nhi kiya. Hamaray bachay bachay ko Superman ka name pata who is a gay Character. SHOW SOME MATURITY Ye jo log iss par ghatiya ilzaam laga rahey hain inhein ye pata hona chahiye ke apni aankon se dekhe bagair kisi cheez par ilzaam lagana BOHTAAN hota hai jo ke transgender honay se bhi bara gunah hai. HYPOCRISY AT IT'S PEAK
I was reading comments. And it makes me happy that we still have sane people around us, who don't support joyland for religious reasons. So disappointed on Something haute though.
Is this film releasing internationally? I didn’t get any information about that from anywhere. If you guys know anything about that so please share. I live in Australia and I hope it’s released here too.
Oh God, I shouldn't have read the comments. I don't know why I thought there will be some nuanced discussion on human complexity and how we navigate our lives in such a nonbinary world. But no, one-word transgender is enough to make us entertain our most innate desire to be hypocrites. Thank God for this film exposing how we operate as human beings using the garb of religion to show intolerance, hatred, and prejudice as a defense mechanism. The characters in this film are real people, not aliens hijacked from the West. And that's the reason it is hitting so close to home. Such movies are made to question. They're not giving you answers or teaching you. They're not there to entertain. If you can't deal with basic human issues then don't watch the film. You guys aren't ready!
Totally agree with you, we all need to introspect, the world is changing and that is the only constant. Cinema should reflect that change or indeed make us reflect on our perceptions. Too many believe that merely watching a movie like this is going to " promote" a different culture. What we don't realise is that it very much exists but is largely ignored because we fear the conversation around it, we fear accepting it exists. It will continue to do so, whether cinema addresses it or not.
Its sooo common in our society.. Having gay /lesbian extra marital affair ! Kabootar ki tarah ankhain band kar lain Bas! Known atleast 3 cases where the wife has no clue of the husband being involved in HOMO sexual Extra affair ... and keeping a masoom wife and family on the side .. IN Pakistan.. i live in Canada .. people are honest here atleast ... !not destroying others life atleast!
Agreed, its just a bunch of men who don't want to be caught because they do engage in homosexuality. They would prefer their wives being unaware and quite, being their domestic slaves
Hassan , my two cents as to what drove Mumtaz to suicide after how things seem to be taking shape is that years of emotional deprivation cannot be fixed even when things start to go right and its not within ones power to comprehend fully the true nature of things and so control your own reactions at that time.
I don't think promiscuity, gender fluidity and even infidelity are the problems going on with every pakistani family out there that we have to make such graphic content.. Why not make shows/movies like Dirliş Ertuğrul to show people the right way of doing things instead of making stuff like Joyland where half the people are just not gonna watch it because of the way it's portrayed? We can show KhwajaSira community getting empowered like we've shown some of the female characters in dramas like Sabaat or Humsafar etc. and Mumtaz did all that just to commit suicide matlab dunya to gayi hi thi ab qayamat tak suicide hi karte rahe wo..... P.S. suicide is haram as well and that's a fact and I've got no qualms stating that..
Disappointed in Aamna because she reads a lot of book and do research but for this topic Aamna has blind folds on her eyes. Please watch some videos and do some research on the findings.. watch Matt Walsh and Raja Zia ul Haq videos
Agree with you 100%. They sounded so tone-deaf in this whole video.
She is looking forward to karan johar. There isn't any control in who you are attracted to. These people are using their platform to promote more fuss and vulgarity in our society
@@sanazahid1081 so true I used to like these 2. Not any more now
Your mulla's were against technology like loudspeaker ,mobile phone etc now they are on TH-cam and spreading radical islam thoughts .Why despite of 50+ muslim countries in this world but still muslims are in danger ?
So true!!
I am surprised at Amna justifying an extramarital affair just because of fact that it’s with trans person by saying there was lack of spark between the couple…The film just seems to serve the purpose of normalizing a relationship between Haider and Beba ..Once it’s received well they will develop central theme of it .Review didn’t discuss perspective of people opposing it though Hassan raised few relevant points
I know that part was shocking, can’t believe what filth Amna was justifying
Listen again. At 26:50 Amina says "aur aap ka ye flaw hai, if you give into that desire, Haider is flawed ofcourse" She is not justifying infidelity, she is just explaining the cause.
@@user-rand0m1234 no, watch 15:30 she definitely was saying how cheating is oh so normal. It was Hassan who disagreed with her and categorically stated it’s wrong no matter what.
@@rafaysiddiqi5192 agreed
She isn't justifying it..she is saying what is the truth. Whether it's right or wrong is based on your conjecture. But that is what an extramarital affair is.
I think you should have called Raja Zia-ul-Haq for the discussion on Joyland from an islamic perspective.
Even if they don’t glamorize homosexuality, they definitely normalized it by making you sympathize with the guy. How did you guys miss this point?
So it means Pakistan don't have gay. The most watched porn in Pakistan is Gay Porn so who is watching it then. Raja Zia Ul Haq!
Sometimes the motive of a film is not to give a message, it is to tell a story, here they are telling a story of a family, of a man, of a wife, of an intersex, it's a story. And secondly, TAKE OFF YOUR PINK DREAMY GLASSES AND LOOK AROUND, PEOPLE SLEEP WITH TRANS PEOPLE, THEY DO ADULTERY, THEY GET INTO ILLICIT RELATIONSHIPS, THEY GET INTO INCESTUOUS RELATIONSHIPS. To jisne galat kerna hai wo zoron shoron se ker raha hai, or ye cheezain already bohat phel gayeen hain, it's just that we don't talk about it! Doesn't mean these things don't exist in Pakistan. Society morally is had tak corrupt ho chuki hai ke apki soch hai, so stop blaming this film for normalizing it. Jiska apnay nafs par control nahi, jo ke bohat se logon ka nahi hai, wo sab haram kaam karainge
When you say normalisation, then you are saying this isn’t normal, so explain how homosexuality is also found in other animals, not only Homo sapiens? Plus a story about someone not of your gender or sexual preference should not be addressed, so do we ignore them, do we lock them up, do we do what Hitler did to them? Who gave you that right to negate other human beings? If you oppose it don’t go and watch it, just think these people have heterosexual behaviour constantly shoved down their throat, and yet we can’t be accepting of their stories! How petty minded are you?
@@mehakriaz1588 I think the motive behind this film is exactly what the original commentator has said it is, to normalise trans and homosexual relationships. If someone asked the director about his opinion on such relationships he won’t even be able to deny it or say he doesn’t agree because he probably holds positive opinions on it. However on the other hand I am shocked people are acting very surprised to this sort of depiction on screen as if it doesn’t happen in our society or it’s unheard of and it’s some foreign planted concept. Pakistani society has a lot of bad apples, I’ve seen and heard enough around me to know that. My mother’s cousin ex husband was gay and was having an extramarital affair with his ‘friend’ who she caught red handed. My friend’s neighbour got caught having an affair with his mami, and guess what! The mami ended up divorcing her husband and marrying her former nephew. Also isn’t this the same nation that literally hires transgenders to perform at their weddings for an male audience? Don’t they perform at stage shows where men attend to watch? I mean, there’s so many videos on TH-cam about it! It’s duplicitous to act like none of this happens.
Agreed. Raft Siddiqui
So promiscuity, infidelity, gender fluidity and eventually suicide. Yet its being claimed to be a 'beautifully nuanced portrayal' of the average Pakistani family and their struggles?
Infidelity, suicide both things you see in every 2nd typical Pakistani drama.
Hahaha thank you for exposing these double standards @sarah
At least 3 of the things you mentioned are in Pakistani dramas. Wasn’t Mere Paas Tum Ho about infidelity and promiscuity? It was highly rated drama and most watched drama of it’s time getting high ratings. Jalan was watched a lot as well (although received negative press and tried to be banned) and in that it had similar adultery theme this one had and suicide. I would say what’s shown on our tv is just as bad because families watch it together and millions watch dramas. Joyland is an festival film with a niche market, the same market that enjoys Netflix and prime sort of content and had it not been for the noise around it (from the western nod of approval or the protests against it here) it would’ve come, flopped, and people would’ve moved on.
She said pakistani family not drama. Dramas are also not “ beautifully nuanced portrayal of the average pakistani family”
Anyone who wants to see the film to judge it for themselves can, as it’s online and in it’s original quality. I can send the link to anyone who can’t find it. However, I will no longer be following SH, because it’s clear they have no issue with this film and are supporting it, whereas if you watch the uncensored version of the film any Muslim cannot be in favour of such a film ever. Things the film include that are morally reprehensible;
- In the original international version there is full on kissing between Biba and Haider and soon to be sex scene
- Haider is gay and impotent, in a scene he wants Biba to sodomise him. Biba gets angry at Haider for him thinking she is a guy and she’s the one who ends their affair and chucks Haider out
- Biba alludes to wanting to get surgery done, which suggests she is actually transgender
- There is a masturbation scene of a guy on the street
- A scene of Mumtaz, Haider’s wife self pleasuring herself as well and Haider’s brother walks in on her
- Mumtaz is having an affair and falls pregnant. The person she is having an affair with I assume is the guy who purposely bumps in to her at the Joyland amusement park
- Sania Saeed’s character is utterly confused, she starts off with giving sermons but in the end wants to live with Haider’s father
- Sarwat Gillani is playing the typical sister in law but of course she can’t be that typical so we see her puffing on cigarettes throughout the film
- The back up dancers of Biba all drink alcohol, so do the Khushras
- They even show one of the Khusras Biba lives with getting married to a man
- Only somewhat sane character is that of Sohail Sameer, but what’s the point when in the end they try to present him as the bad guy, how predictable
- In the end Mumtaz kills herself because she is pregnant with someone else’s child and Haider also drowns himself because he no longer has Biba or Mumtaz
It’s important to mention this version was not shown to the censor board or cinemas. Overall, this film is just a bunch of sexually frustrated people, made by a clearly sexually frustrated director. It is vulgar and crass, and it does try to normalise adultery as well as tries to make us sympathise with Mumtaz and Haider for cheating. It also does show LGBTQ material.
Finally,
#BANJOYLAND !
It’s a lot more nuanced guys. It’s not just about inspiring things in wider society. It’s about normalising them. I’m very surprised this point is seemingly lost on you.
Yes, and I wonder why they are missing these important points!
I am quite disappointed in them after their coverup kinda reviews abt this film.
Very good point but I’m not surprised. I don’t think something haute is pro-islamic anyways looking at their recent videos.
@@Sabasayzz yes, exactly. The other thing they refuse to grapple with is whether Biba is intersex or transgender. The terms are not interchangeable.
@@rafaysiddiqi5192thank you. Recently they’ve opened a bit too much. I’ve been watching for three years. Their earlier reviews were better.
@@zahroohussain7460 The film is infact all that what they are trying hard to prove its not! And even a person who havn't watched the movie can tell it from their given spoilers! Its funny.
And yes i've been watching them since long, didnt agree to everything they say earlier as well but still expected them to talk a bit more responsibly.
Amna is being hypocrite here. She's saying there is no spark btw haider n mumtaz relationship that's why he is attracted towards someone else lol. If same will be seen in a tv drama then she'll be the first to criticize the man lol. But here no comments.. Lol they're saying Haider k sth end me bura hoa.. lol kia bura hoa? in the end the poor lady lost her life
I used to like these guys reviews but now I'm not agree with both of them they just portrayed every bad thing in normal way
@@AmyKhan123 exactly. I'm even talking about the biba. Extra marital affair hi kisi sorat acceptable nhi. secondly biba was a transgender and relationship with him definitely supports LGBTQ and they r saying kaha he LGBTQ ka support lol ajeeb
@@aishkhan566 yeah it's really disgusting to think about it even and no chance we will watch this kind of rubbish and promote it never
When these guys are not accepting character of shamsher who did nikah which was done in wrong way but supporting all kind of haram relationship not acceptable
These guys are heavily impressed by west criteria/standards of the good film. Since this movie got award by west and will definitely win Oscar because of the topic they are just impressed by this .
Hipocrisy is yesterday only they were lauding Qatar for taking a stand ... And today they themselves don't have gut to say what is right ... Trying to whitewash everything in sense of "emotional need"
Examples of things that are normalized that "seem harmless" in movies/dramas & around you:
In Islam dating is not allowed, but you see teenagers-yound adults casually going on dates now.
Showing your hair is forbidden, but most women don't cover anymore...not even a dupatta on most.
The only person you are allowed to show your body to is your spouse but is that what's happening now? Look at the award ceremonies, or weddings even. Look at how we have turned a blessed event into days of sins.
Touching a non-mahram intentionally is not allowed under any circumstance. I am appalled when people talk about or show actors touching, hugging, kissing each other on screen. Are we forgetting religion for art? Do we forget that this is a test?
Another thing normalised on TV is domestic abuse, getting slapped by whoever or to do as you are told because you are a woman ...it happens in some households but dramas showed it sooo much i had friends of friends sharing their stories at a gathering of them getting slapped like "you know these things happen in every house" no it doesn't sis.
I don't think it's fair to call a whole country homophobic over a movie we can co-exist as long as boundaries aren't pushed, you are in a muslim country, of course most muslims are not going to be ok with a movie showing everything that is forbidden in our religion. For example look at the shit Saudi was facing for years because its laws were "too strict and backwards" according to the rest of the world but look at Saudi now as their laws have been slightly flexible, people are celebrating Halloween...in Saudi...where the sacred city lies. Whether you accept it or not...we are paving the way for a lot of things against Islam for future generations as we normalize such acts. It doesn't matter if the conclusion is that they both die a horrible death or left as a cliffhanger to interpret whatever you want it to be...you bringing such things on such platforms because it happens to a 0.1% of the population you are saying it's fine because it happens, you are not the only one to feel, or do such things.
Those who justify this will continue to do so but it is what it is and as a muslim it is our duty to try an educate those who may have gone astray in any way we can. We are all sinners and may Allah forgive and guide us all but let's not try to literally call upon the wrath of Allah swt. Please remember to please your creator, not the people in this duniya. Our deeds are whats going to answer for us. Be careful what you say and act upon. As days go by you realise more and more why Prophet Muhammad S.A.W cried for this Ummah 😔
Agree with you, but you’ve missed out a lot more sins that are so normalised in our societies. Interest/riba which our country runs on which is equivalent to waging a war against Allah, intermixing between the genders, premarital relationships, music, dance, lack of veiling, women wearing makeup/perfume in front of opposite gender, violence, murder, rape, backbiting, which are happening in dramas, films, and real life. And yep, we’re definitely in the end of times and Qayamat is very close.
Its like those ppl supporting Kashmir files while it was getting flack for promoting communal tensions and promoting it.
Thank-you for saying this you r right
Do u mind if I copy this
Jazakallahu khairan
@@funnymemes9493 oh i dont mind at all, feel free to correct grammatical errors as well.
Sorry hassan and amna but u guys are supporting wrong thing joyland won the best award on LGBT category how can we say anything in favour of this kind of film which is promoting haraam agenda. Dunya mein phle km msle hain jo esi films bam rhi hain
Yeh log Har 2 3 saal bad is tarah ki koi chawL Marty hain . . Agr itna haram karny ka shok Hai in ko to Europe me jao udr raho jo haramipan karna Hai tumhari marzi . Lekin pakistan me yeh sab nai chaly ga . Majority aik tarf Hai or yeh 500 1000 bandy jo yeh bakwas harami zinha dekhna chahty hain
This is something they didn't answer or anyone who is supporting this movie..is it international media or award people are crazy who didn't see it wasn't about transgender or we as hassan always say pakistani audience are stupid.....we all can read between lines,noone is niave here.
Thank you for speaking sense!
There is so much more haraam happening in our lives...do we raise our voice ......?noone... please let other people live like to
@@tabinda460 so why do we raise our voice for the immoral things in dramas. We judge drama if they show anything against culture then why should we give loose hand to films.
Also, Maria B has raised fair points. She has seen what the normalisation of trans has done in the west. And even there are westerners who are fed up with it. Have you not seen the attacks on JK Rowling, and conservative voices like Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson who have spoke out against normalisation of trans and how bad it is for society.
@@farrahmir6557 yeah, it’s disgusting what they’re exposing kids to. I remember being a kid and I didn’t even learn about LGB part, let alone the T (trans) part at school. Things are getting a lot worst, feel sorry for the new generation of parents actually having to deal with it. Add in Netflix series, TikTok, social media etc promoting and normalising this stuff as well.
Eventually it’ll lead to a very big backlash, from their own people. Enough is enough!
After all these discussions, I really got to know that Pakistanis can’t differentiate gay/lesbisn from trans. Specially on this movie, they are referred as khwaja sirha. Khwaja Sirha people are actually disabled. They have the sexual organs of one gender at the outside and of the other gender in the inside. That’s why people say ke inki badduaa se bacho. There is an old drama named Khuda Mera bhi hay, its with ayesha khan who gives birth to a khwaja sirha. Watch it, it’s very well explained. THEY ARE a Part of our community. How can we treat disabled people like that and have to fear of normalising them? They are there!!!! They exist! Disabled people do exist.
@@ixa.m9915 I’m born and grown up in the west and no heres no such problem. Here are gays and lesbians and people who change their genders because of psychological problems (which isn’t accepted in pakistan in most cases) and then there are trans people who are disabled. But you wont see them here, as you see them in pakistan as „khusrey“. Because they are treated normally. Here, they don’t give away there trans kids and no special communities are built, like in pakistan the khawaja sirha community, because it is accepted as normal, which actually leads to „no promoting“ at all.
@@ixa.m9915 their*
Secondly, if you really think that a movie promotes this so called „agenda“ and people will get inspired by that, then I think everyone who thinks that, should reconsider their imaan and what they even are, that they can’t hold against a movie lol. Secondly the movie is 18+ rated and not for „innocent kids“. If anyone above 18 changed his/herself due to „such an agenda movie“ then I feel sorry for them
Just because the west is full of far right bigots and misguiddd liberals doesn’t mean treating a minority group with such hate and disdain is wrong! Show compassion as you would do to other minority groups who are not like you.
Hitler did horrendous things to the minority groups like Jews, gays! Do you want your prejudice to lead to destroying or making these people vulnerable to attacks?
For the first time in all these years... something haute has disappointed me. Not because i don't agree with them but because this sensitive subject has serious religious issues and you guys have absolutely ignored them just to favour the so called ART.
Giving examples of Dramas is exactly justifying one wrong with another wrong. It's like Sharaab, Rishwat, jhoot, Milawat and Zinna etc to already society mein hain hi to homosexuality b aa jaey gi to kya hi hojaey ga. Aap logon ki to terminologies hi thk ni to discussion to baad ki baat ha. People who have physical condition like this are called Eunuchs or intersex. Word 'Transgender' is used for people who knowingly opt to change their sex. It can be done by changing your appearance or going for an actual surgery. Sharaab peena, Rishwat lena aur zinna karna koi flaws ni hain, yeh Gunah hi hain. Isi tarah Calling Haider just Flawed is actually giving him a clean chit. Plus this movie is produced by Sarmad and we all know what sort of role he played in churails.
Actually your terminology is not that accurate either, the word eunuch is generally used for man who have been castrated, not only for Khwaja sira’s. These were mostly male slaves who were born with male body parts but were castrated before they reached puberty. So basically changing their appearance by going through surgery. There are many examples through Islamic history, some of them were even tasked with looking after the prophets tomb , as well for guarding harems. If you have seen Turkish dramas, you would have seen them in it.
Also sarmad Khoosat was murdered in churails and cannibalised by his wife for his sins..Don’t know how that promotes homosexuality.
@@s23416 I know what Eunuch means but this same word is used for Khawaja sirra. Primary word is intersex which should be used. Plus people who are intersex are identified at birth and perhaps you don't know but more than 80% of these intersex people can be treatable. Just because intersex people exist, doesn't mean there is a 3rd Gender. It's like having a 6th finger so you don't count it as Normal. I know what happened in churails and that's the problem. You think showing that sort of an end justifies it but it absolutely doesn't. Again it's justification of one wrong with another. It's Normalizing Homosexuality. It's called conditioning of our minds. To alter our thinking. The biggest example is taking and giving bribe in our country. It has been Normalized so much that we don't even think it's a problem. We think it's a Given.
@@ahsanarshad918 I do know they are treatable, but do you now how they are treated? through surgeries and hormone treatment. This is why Iran is the hub for sex-reaffirming surgery.
Homosexuality exists in the world, as does pedophilia, even to counter these things we need to occasionally acknowledge they happen. Sodomy has been touched upon in all the major religions. I think it should be touched upon in basis in light of our islamic and cultural traditions or the western take on it will become dominant.
Also your bribery analogy makes no sense, bribery exists because it's a norm in our society but it's barely touched upon in our media. In fact its underreported in the news or in the creative arts, I think it showed be depicted more in movies and dramas and these people should be vilified.
Don't compare it with drama, drama always has a learning lesson at the end. in joyland Father is doing haram kari with her neighbour. The hero wife doing sex with his brother and the hero itself is in transgenders love. Tell me and look around your area or family how much of these cases you heard about. Probably not even a single case in your whole muhalla. This is not common in our society we should not show this to our people on big screens. They just took an award by highlighting that Muslims society is bad.
Simply it’s not evident to you because it’s hidden! Most heterosexual or homosexual hardly do things in the open!Just because you don’t know of it in your area doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist!how shallow is your comment?
@@gerryburntwood9617 Ye bat nahi hoti. Esa American society main hota hai jis ki ap ibadat karte hain. Kuch aurton hoti hain society main jin ka kam hi gossiping hota hai. Phir bhi esa case kabhi nahi aya. Ap ko koi pata hai ap kay muhallay main ?
@@gerryburntwood9617 And your speaking as though its right to do such things
@@IjazAhmad-bd5xt sadly, you have no rights to tell others whether they can be trans, or gay is anything, it’s between them and their maker, not you! It’s also not up to me to tell them what is right for them or what isn’t right for them! Can you show me in my comment where I said it’s right for them to do this?
@@gerryburntwood9617 But Allah will question us on the Day of Judgement. There is a hadith in which Prophet (PBUH) tells (I don't remember exact words this is explanation)that if you see something wrong , stop it as you will be questioned "What you did to stop it?". And the one who let their country people getting involved in this are even worse. And thirdly , other people get influenced by such movies. And Muslims as an Ummah has a right to protect others from crime.
Joyland should not have just left that Transgender character as ambigious whether the person is an "Intersex or Trans". There is a big difference between the two and there is a whole conversation going around about it. And in this time a movie coming like this without mentioning clearly is a very wromg thing.
Hi Hassan and Amna, I always love seeing you and respect your reviews regarding movies and dramas but now I have a few questions. Can you please reply to them? Thanks!
1. Are we normalizing to show that an old woman (Sania Saeed) spent a night with Haider's father in a locked room in the absence of everyone?
2. Two times Haider and Biba kiss each other? And once Biba tries to open his pant to move further, Haider turns back to Biba to show his feelings like he also has the same feelings that Biba has? So it means both are the same in sexual orientation. Once when Biba talked to Haider regarding surgery then Haider didn't show acceptance towards it.
3. Someone is masturbating on the street and Mumtaz is watching. At that time, Haider's brother came to her and then we get news of her pregnancy after a few days. This is an indication of having sex of his brother with Mumtaz and Mumtaz commits suicide due to this reason and guilt. How could a mother kill his child without any solid reason?
4. Usage of vulgar language, although this is common in our society but is it really needed to show the dark side of our society? Just to get sympathy from the international platform.
7:06 i am shocked to hear amna saying this is story of every family in Pakistan 🤮....i mean seriously...
Lol, she means one of the daughter in laws is unable to have a boy child and it causes problems for her. There are certain things in the film that are familiar to the average Pakistani family. But yes, it’s definitely got lots of things which are not!!
Agree
Sorry, I m not agree with your review, Mumtaz commit suicide because it was not Haiders child but it was illegal relationship with his brother in law and there is no point to support that a Man could fall in love with transgender, disappointed with your review Aamna,
The saddest part is that when people don't have a certain experience in their lives, they think others haven't experienced it as well. The reality is that the people are living these lives. There are people in the world who are married and might have cheated on their spouses with people who identify with whatever sexuality. There are married men out there who cheat on their wives with people who are not women. This happens in this world. The end is chaos and dark but it happens all over the world. But the importance of storytelling is that these stories reach people. This is a reality. We are in denial that these stories and these people exist. This is human experience that people live regardless of their or our moral ethical and religious values and realm. Life is complex. Just because it's not our experience, doesn't mean it can't be someone else's.
100% agree. And if someone is uncomfortable with this idea...that person clearly KNOWS...that this is sad reality...that is the reason of being 'uncomfortable'
I absolutely second your point of view
It's not Abt the experience Allah SAYS GUNAH KO CHPAO MASHOOR NA KARO... IS TAR HA GOLRIFY KARNIE SE KUCH BHE NAHI BADALTA
@@The_Crafter_official so you don’t have to watch it! Moreover Allah also tells you about what is ‘haram’ in heterosexual behaviour yet you watch dramas, probably Netflix which shows quite explicit dec scenes( 50 shades of grey cones to mind), you can’t be selective in what Allah says, because you should then stop making your dramas/ films with such scenes noted to be ‘haram’! Stop being a hypocrite!
Simra Irfan you are spot on in your comment! 👏🏾🌹
Hassan your point is completely right about why Haider has this desire to be intimate with that "transgender" but not to his own wife who loves him and cares for him. Amna's justification is not right. You can't just get attracted with anyone unless you allows that to happen. Kbhi Alvida na kehna was a film, not reality.
And also Rani’s character fall in love in man not trans, intersex or woman! Betuki misaal dee hay Amna ne
This movie is not that complex they are just trying to normalise things slowly, this movie is the start. I don't agree with your review
Anyone who wants to see the film to judge it for themselves can, as it’s online and in it’s original quality. I can send the link to anyone who can’t find it. However, I will no longer be following SH, because it’s clear they have no issue with this film and are supporting it, whereas if you watch the uncensored version of the film any Muslim cannot be in favour of such a film ever. Things the film include that are morally reprehensible;
- In the original international version there is full on kissing between Biba and Haider and soon to be sex scene
- Haider is gay and impotent, in a scene he wants Biba to sodomise him. Biba gets angry at Haider for him thinking she is a guy and she’s the one who ends their affair and chucks Haider out
- Biba alludes to wanting to get surgery done, which suggests she is actually transgender
- There is a masturbation scene of a guy on the street
- A scene of Mumtaz, Haider’s wife self pleasuring herself as well and Haider’s brother walks in on her
- Mumtaz is having an affair and falls pregnant. The person she is having an affair with I assume is the guy who purposely bumps in to her at the Joyland amusement park
- Sania Saeed’s character is utterly confused, she starts off with giving sermons but in the end wants to live with Haider’s father
- Sarwat Gillani is playing the typical sister in law but of course she can’t be that typical so we see her puffing on cigarettes throughout the film
- The back up dancers of Biba all drink alcohol, so do the Khushras
- They even show one of the Khusras Biba lives with getting married to a man
- Only somewhat sane character is that of Sohail Sameer, but what’s the point when in the end they try to present him as the bad guy, how predictable
- In the end Mumtaz kills herself because she is pregnant with someone else’s child and Haider also drowns himself because he no longer has Biba or Mumtaz
It’s important for mention this version was not shown to the censor board or cinemas. Overall, this film is just a bunch of sexually frustrated people, made by a clearly sexually frustrated director. It is vulgar and crass, and it does try to normalise adultery as well as tries to make us sympathise with Mumtaz and Haider for cheating. It also does show LGBTQ material.
Finally,
#BANJOYLAND !
Can u please share the link with me? So i can watch it
@@lubnagul3656 th-cam.com/video/vwx4R5fDJmk/w-d-xo.html
How can I watch it?
@@dur-e-shahwar1271 here; th-cam.com/video/vwx4R5fDJmk/w-d-xo.html
How is a relationship between khwajasira and man not haraam ? I am confused....
I swear 😂
They are confused too and trying to elaborate discuss and review such filthy content..God forbid if happens in their family what will they do....
The agenda of the movie the award category and haram relations arent enough for them to boycott it...
@@rabbiyahamid3676 exactly.... According to amna the relationship between the main lead started becoz he got attracted toward khwajasira becoz that khwajasira provided emotional support.... That's what I understood.... And I am genuinely confused is it oky to go towards these kinds of relationship??? And isn't this homosexuality....
@@mairajamal4953 its scary that people claim to be practicing muslims while normalizing love between a man and a transgender. Very disappointed by Hasan and Amna.
@@mairajamal4953 even we have siblings agr koi apni shadi mein khush nhi tou kya allow krengy ye sb krna when divorce or khula is way to gt out of unhappy marriage..
They are fabricating haram relations wd emotions care affection..
Amna se tou expectation nhi thee bt Hassan k reviews ne bhtt disappoint kia..
I havent watched the movie and i dont think it will release where i live but whats the fuss about representing a khawaja sera. I have grown up in pakistan and they were seen a lot, mostly begging. They are so marginalised already. We all know that there are men interested in khawaja sera/ khusras ( i dont like this term) and they are sexually abused by men and if Haider falls for a khawaja sera isnt that depicted what happens in real life? How hypocrite!!
Movie na dekhein agar nahi dekhni.
Well i live in the country where everything happens around me. I still am a muslim and stick to my believes. Uper se pehly dekh tau lo bahi phir ehtajaj karo !!
A character who slaps women is very wrong, is a bad character, and we shouldn't normalize such acts (agreed), but in Joyland, a character is doing infidelity and that too with a trans is not a bad human/character and is just grey. Really??? Infidelity is a great sin which is an unpardonable and reprehensible sin. There are many movies that touch grey areas and this movie is one of those which is alright but that doesn't mean sexual infidelity, homosexuality etc. will come under grey area and won't remain a major sin anymore, definitely a greater sin compared to a slap. Also, such characters should be shown to have a bad ending, especially in our part of the world, left alone without a wife n kid, and 50/50 chance of suicide wasn't enough.
Yeah I don’t think I’m in favour of this film. I think I have an idea of the agenda behind it. And the support it’s getting from the West, we all know why. That’s enough for me to look at it with a side eye. However, I do think people can come across as hypocrites in this discussion, and we do have a very weird and pick and choose sort of relationship with the idea of halal and haram. I hope everyone who has raised their voices against this film also ferociously and actively speak about the the fact HIV is spreading in our society, thousands of little boys are being raped, and there is still a lot happening in our society which we just don’t want to confront. I hope if anything people will start speaking up against the downfall of these sort of relationships and desires, and actually make steps to protect boys suffering from it, and people from acting on it, but alas I highly doubt anyone actually cares beyond this film!
Despite the very clear concepts of right and written given in the holy Quran, do we not see all sorts of heinous crimes and sins in Muslim countries ? To my mind , the filmmaker has probably only portrayed a slice of reality and left the audience to chew upon it. Neither does it promote anything nor normalize it. It only forces us to confront it and deal with it. It already exists, in numbers we don't know, but we turn a blind eye and pretend
It doesn't, because conversation around it makes us uncomfortable and we prefer not to voice an opinion. Period.
This review is such a disappointment, how casually you guys are portraying it as if nothing happened. Making it a story of every house. May Allah be kind to all of us and give us Hidayat. Why do we feel so cool in negating the rules that Allah has defined for us Muslims, at least Burai ko Burai kahein. Don't normalize illicit relationships by making it a story of every household. Mumtaz did suicide because she regretted her relationship with her brother-in-law and was pregnant with his child and you people are making it a story of every household.
Hassan so innocent that he didn’t see what they were alluding lol I have seen the movie and they sugar code Homosexuality under human emotions
No they are not that naive .They knew it for sure just sugar coating it for the time being .Once it’s digested by audience will come up with it more clearly .That’s how things are normalized
In Qatar during FIFA ,rainbow bands were not allowed as it’s against their religion…They can make it clear to people who are not Muslim ..And we in the name of art are promoting,justifying every filth with our hypocrisy ..
Our so called liberal film makers cannot touch on any political agenda as they will be held accountable for it but they can easily promote a grave sin and stand against religious beliefs of vast majority as they are getting awards for it by Cannes😢
They know what they are explaining. Smartly normalising shit
Totally agree with you .
How humans can turn blind to something they don't wanna see is remarkable! That's exactly what's going on here
@Hassan what happened ur stance about normalising the effect of horrendous act at the end of drama/ film....e.g your current views abt KTKG...y r u ignoring that they r trying to regularise the concept of extra marital, illegal sex(zina) and transgender relationship....so hypocrite of u guys
Totally agreed with you!
In ko bus ek burai rukwabi hay drama/ film main k aurat ko tapper na para! Lekin aurat ko Masturbate kerta hoa dikha do movie main!! (Main ne unedited version dekha hay because i live in USA)
Absolutely loved the review. I have watched the unedited version and it’s a brilliant movie. Two important scenes that define the intent of the film:
First: when Haider watches Biba all covered in blood in hospital. This draws attention towards how khwaja siras are tortured and murdered and are at risk daily.
Second: after Mumtaz death, the burst out of her jethani how everyone in family was responsible for her death. Draws attention towards lack of women wishes over their own lives. Mumtaz wanted to work and could not. She didn’t want a child and had to bear one. She was trapped and wanted an out. Unfortunate out.
The entire comment section is disturbing. Please get some human biology classes to update yourself. Talk to certified doctors and learn on biological and sexual orientation.
Two of the things which you mentioned has nothing to do with human biology!
That was for the commenters who dismiss the existence of khwaja siras. I mean no disrespect but if you read comments you will note people lack the understanding of how some are biologically born such.
True👍👍
At 15:30 well said Hassan. Aamna, I’m very confused. You seem to now think adultery is some very normal human emotion/act. Sure, adultery is something anyone can fall into. But to say the act doesn’t make you a villain? I would definitely disagree with that. It causes deep pain and heartbreak to your partner, it disrupts and breaks up a family, it’s betrayal of the highest level and let’s not forget, it’s one of the biggest sins you can do which the saza is moat. I’ve seen all your reviews. Sometimes your points I agree with, but here I don’t. I feel Hassan actually gave a more clear cut stance and didn’t try to normalise it at all.
I feel like after years of normalisation of adultery in our dramas and the sanitisation of it, people don’t even think it’s wrong anymore. How sad. They only think it’s wrong when it’s when a woman does it and even then I fear we’ll reach to a point where we will start being lenient with that as well. Where are we heading!
I remember always speaking against MPTH, refused to watch it for this reason. And refused to watch Jalan too.
I don’t think she said its right. She meant to say it happens, people cheat on partners which is wrong but it happens left right and centre.
acha mujhe aik bat ki samjh nhi arhi logg es movie ko itna higly promote qqq kar rahy ,,
aur yeh samjh rahy esko Canon festival m award mila hy tu esko kis category ka award mila hy ??
agr app canon 2022 ki movies jin ko best movie ya phir best director ka award mila hy wo zara check kry
best director movie Korea ki movie (Decision to Leave) ko mila aur un m se aik movie jis m Boy from heaven ko bhi award mila aur yeh wo movies thi jo Kay Top Class ki movies m ati thi es m Joyland ko qqq Aik bhi award nhi mila???? Aur special Queer ka he qq award mila????
Aur phir Rotten Tomatoes par Esko jo reviews mily hy Us m es movie ko Specially LGBT ka nam mention kia hy yeh bat ghoor karny waliii jo kay hamry So called Critics ko samjh nhi rahy ,,
Joyland m biba Ka character aik Bilogical Male bataya gaya hy Aur na kay trans ya phir inter-sex so man se Woman m transfer hoa aur bad m Haider ko maloom bhi hota hy ,,, Movie m bht kuch aisa hy jis bina faltu kay dala gaya hy msln Bhabhi ka Dever kay sath WTFFFFFFFF o bhai sab es se acha tu Ullu App waly ya Phir ALt Balji way content bana rhy hy ,,, ha agr movie banani he thi koi Strong Point he uthaaa daity ,, Aik Transgender ko jub Bacha hota usko kia problems ka Samna karna parta hy uski bachpan se lay kar end tk ki journey dekha sakty thy magr appko aik male dekhana tha jo kay male se trans m convert hoaa hy ,,, this is disgusting
yeh chizzz
Not agree with your review and discussion
We are society where Shamsher from KTK is a HERO figure for large group audience, and sonay py suhaga that Joyland released in this country who depicts the story of a man in relationship with a transgender....how can someone say that its not an LGBTQ movie... Yay to saree'han gunah ka khulay tareeqy sy parchaar hai.. May Allah bless all of us with Hidayah...
Kisi agenda k through ye film bni hai is film ko produce kisi pakistani ne ni kiya sirf direct pakistani directer ne kiya hai aur awards b mil jate hain hype bnai jati hai takay film release ho qk sarmad khosat ki pehle b film ban hui thi is liye is ko hype di.. U fools
With all due respect, in my opinion this film does trigger and damage the masses as this has been always a discussion that cinema and dramas affect masses and You have been an ally in this thinking. If the transgender is loved by a man, it is something that is such a big sin in Islam that we cannot have support for it.
This is exactly what you shouldbe thinking. In the end haider is not with biba nor he is happy ....the outcome of his sin......
If Biba is intersex then she is allowed by religion to carry the gender identity she feels close to. Now can't a man love a female intersex?? I m just asking..does it mean an intersex has no right over love, but then they are human beings and their physical structure was made by Allah.
Omg what a hypocrite you are! Many heterosexual behaviour you see both in Pakistan and abroad are million times worse as they affect more people! I’ve never heard of a gay guy raping a woman but heterosexual men are known to rape gay men and women, girls etc
I suggest you condemn much you see on Netflix or your own films/ dramas fraught with things you perceive as damaging society!
@@s.s.m9936 look intersex people have right to chose what gender they associate with more PHYSICALLY and mentally. Biba has physical appearance of a man which does not go well with them saying he’s intersex woman. Now that we re clear with this if biba was intersex woman then of course they re allowed to get love, marry have kids etc but not with a married man who wants to do zina.
@@ayesharaheel5677 not based on physical appearance but genital features and emotionalinclination. And of course we can't see the genital features of a character in movie so let it accept the way they show it and they show her as woman. Now the discussion is whether she was a transgender woman or intersex woman, unfortunately they didn't clear it so the ambiguity will remain. But if she was portrayed as intersex female, then it wouldn't be important, how much feminine she appears to you or me, she would be accepted as female n has a right over the love of a man. But I agree a married man has no right to have physical relationships with any other woman, transgender or intersex or any other normal woman. But the thing is people aren't talking about it because it shows extra marital affair, as it is very much part of our movies n dramas, they are raising voice because the woman in this affair is happened to be a transgender or intersex.
Amna Apa you look so pretty! The Qurta is gorgeous and orange suits you so much 😍 MashaAllah MashaAllah!!!!
I want to ask from you guys why a boy is attracted to transgender not his wife and a pathetic point that one of his brother kid was sleeping with the couple that’s why they are not attracted towards each other
I am in Canada. Waiting to watch it here. Anyone here knows when it is coming to Canada?
She commits suicide because Mumtaz was pregnant with Haider's brothers child....that's why he was first okay but then cried uncontrollably when Mumtaz told him that they are having a baby....because they haven't done anything for so long....
But that doesn't imply that it is his brother's child. they might be crying because they didn't want the child. Is it told in the film who the father is?
Cannes Mai is film ko best LGBTQ film ka award Mila hai or Ap keh rahe hai ye movie us agenda per hai hi nahi.
As Amna said that she is not in favour of ban culture then why to ban pornography.
Pornography is an abuse of women, it portrays crass perverted males fantasies, which doesn’t hold true in real life, and many boys exposed to pornography thinks that is how they should behave with their wives, except it’s not how their wives are brought up to behave! There are literature on the abuse linked with porn industry, including child abuse!
@@gerryburntwood9617 I have said in a scarcastic way.
@@sundasshahzad122 ok I didn’t pick it up as sarcasm!
glorify agr nhi bhi kr rahe lekin normalize zaroor kr rahe hai
I agreed 💯 with your discussion tbh, I mean every other scene was disturbing and had lots of nuances and things to say aloud despite being silent.
Joyland: my flawed Review...
Alright, so I ended up watching Joyland eventually and I just wanted to share my viewpoint about it. Firstly, I reckon whatever rumors that we have heard about it, some are true to quite some extent. They did show a trans (naturally born so) getting married, no sex change operations or anything happened, though definitely talked about.
I reckon just a couple of sensual scenes coming from a Pakistani movie, would have been reason enough for some folks to get it banned... But if that's the criteria, how come all kinda English movies can be screened in Pk? 🤷♂️ If all Pk viewers can watch Scared Games and Mirzapur with all the R rated language and all, why not Joyland?
This movie can be disturbing at various levels especially considering PK industry, challenging all kinds of unsaid norms being followed in our societies. It depicts most of the possible "Toxic Traits" found in a typical Pakistani household and culture. (mainly Punjabi shown here since shot in Lahore).
Trying not getting into any spoilers,
I found the storyline, the direction pretty impressive, with the nuances portrayed with subtle hints at times aiding the storytelling and its coming from someone who has consumed plenty of media. One could say that this movie was made for intelligent audience not your average Joe. Amazing Acting skills were portrayed throughout the movie. Facing the Taboo topics was the highlight for me. Its a movie that's portraying the real face of the society just like Manto said that I am showing them Mirror and that's why they find my stories vulgar. But deep down we know, as seen in news, all kinds of shit is happening in Pk and this movie is just highlighting that so things could be changed for better. It's not like they are televising it on National TV or anything, it's just a movie made for adult audiences and should be seen as that, not a promotion of anything...
One does not convert into what they see in a Movie... 🤷♂️ So just chill out and watch it as an art expression, not a school lesson!
I really don’t understand why people are complaining & making a big issue? These kind of dramas have always been around including Parizaad , where bubbly character was clear lesbian and they also showed transgenders & these people made it a hit! And so many other dramas & films so what’s the issue now? This movie would’ve not been a big deal but this hype made it and now people curious to watch.
People shouldn’t judge without watching and be open minded to be aware of their surroundings. Have some critical thinking. This movie sounds like just another movie a story of some people. So acknowledge good work. I’m looking forward to watch this movie. I really like realistic Art movies.
Zindagi mein kuch SUBJECT aisay hotay hein jisay society mein aam nahi kya jata, usay parday mein rehnay dena acha hota hay. Below the belt ke subject parday mein rehnay dena respect rakhta hay
They are discussing this sensitive topic meanwhile their cushion is saying something loudly !!!🤭🙊
Relationship between a man and khuajasira is not a problem of every Pakistani/Punjabi household and IT'S NOT OK
So don't watch it. Stop imposing ur will on everyone else
@@RIMXSHA you are the one who's taking it so personally love. 🙄Calm down and go watch something good 😇
@Ray Brook I will because the bullshit beliefs cause so much pain in our society. Small thinking of people like you compounds and creats a society where real issues like child abhse,animal abuse is not discussed or taken action against and a movie that is just a story a form of art is being given so much hate and attention. We have bigger fish to fry but ofcourse whatever threatens the patriarchal society norms will always be shunned
@@RIMXSHA care to explain how a movie about a man having sex with an intersex person while ignoring his wife and about infidelity 'this art masterpiece ' is threating patriarchy and helping women cause ?
@Ray Brook its exposing the reality of alot of pakistani households and the problem you people have is its creating awareness. This is just a story of a household being told so you not being ok shows a deep insecurity . Are yoi gay? Seem so triggered
Hassan bhai it's a request please let aamna speak too🥹 we wanna hear her perspective also ❤️
Yes please
This is not a discussion
This is a speech by Hassan
For Godsake
True :(
Its not about promotion or glamourising it. Its about DESENSITISATION. The more you see such things in a negative/positive/neutral light the more NORMAL or common it becomes. THATS where the issue is.
And whether you admit it or not. Haider and the transgender if they had physical intimacy it was homosexual. So its about desensitising your audience to something thats absouktely a big NO for your religion and culture.
Please Hasan and Amna clear my confusion if biba is khusra,khawja sira then why u are not calling her intersex why u guys using the word "transgender"?
Transgender is not only Haram but it's a grave sin.
I have no concerns about other things in films like character etc my concern is that joyland is showing man relationship with transwoman means grave sin even if they are showing 0.1% but I m against this movie. I cannot be a part of this crime because i scared from Allah's azaab.
And tell me one thing why Shahbaz Sharif is concerned about joyland?why he make committee on joyland? Why same not happen with Javed iqbal? Beacue Shahbaz Sharif is puppet. puppet of America
In parizaad, from my understanding, Saboor was potrayed not as an intersex or Khawjasira but as a transgender. She was a female who felt that she was a male.. so, she left ended up with a guru. No one critized or questioned that. Why is it so easy to get away with a hug on TV, so many famous ones in our dramas, but blurred in a movie which is 18+. Saboor can be a trans in parizaad at 8pm but deeba can't be one in a movie that one has to pay for before watching...Help me durdana wala scene was a hug and all about durdana's sexual desire.. it wasn't blurred? I guess joyland just needed to have a humayun saeed then it would have been ok, sb justified aur agar special thanks khalil ur rehman ko keh detai tau housefull hota 🤯
The thing is that Saboor's character's sexuality is not discussed. So that's why everyone was okay with it. Yet i think majority of people think she is an intersex rather than transgender. And intersec rights are there in Islam but being transgender is not allowed
@@haroonafridi231 Deeba in film has not shown to have changed anything.She is shown to be a khawjasirah. Yeh humari soch hai k hum us ko trans samjhy ya intersex.... but saboor was a female who wanted to be a man.. that is trans! You don't need to change yourself physically to be a TRANSGENDER.. it's how you identify yourself to be and saboor identified herself to be a MAN. Just imagine, if there was a boy in place of saboor. Osman Khalid butt, born male, but dressing up as a female, nail colors, makeup hum foran uss ko khusraa samjhey gai.. lekin girl identifying as a man is TOM boy?. That's the problem.
Saboor's character in Parizaad was a tomboy. How stupid is it to compare a tomboy behaviour to transgender 🤦♀️
@@mairashabbir5274 TOMBOY girls end up with a GURU?? TOMBOY girls don't marry?? Revist the episode where saboor expresses her bebasi to be a Girl girl! Dekhai tameez tau guzarni nahi hai aap k pass sai..ab aap nai parizaad digest kar liya hai aur damagh ko kuch pata nahi thaa iss liye ab aap ultiyan kar rahee hain...
@@haroonafridi231 there was no bad conclusion in parizaad for Saboor. Her parents accepted her, didn't marry her.. n let her live the way she wanted to live i.e. as a boy. Ab parizaad uss ko 4 crore dai deta tau dubai sai gender changer kara leti 🤣 plz parizaad nai utaar diya hai aap logo k halaq sai 🤣 joyland has shown a bad conclusion for someone who cheated on his wife with a khawjasirah
Hasan your review is best I love you don’t try to be cool like Aamna does you have values integrity and character and I love this about you. Aamna on the other hand thinks fidelity is common & clearly in favor of it. Like it’s sickening seeing Aamna with no character of her own & has no ethics.
Aamna when you said “Bus main nahi hey” about infidelity and cheating on your spouse are we animals person who cheat & has no control on their desires don’t normalize it!!!
Well said
"Something Haute" Amna n Hasan, nice watching your review remember the scene where Haider was ridiculed not only by a group dancers but also by his very own friend who offered him this job. On that very moment, Biba came as Protector and outcast through her Valor which was absent in Haider Demeanor. Hence, this is also the reason Haider concepts his love towards Biba.
yes, Haider quits the job as a dancer + abandoned Biba
but he never told/discussed with his wife" Mumtaz"
There was nothing new in Haider n Mumtaz life, when she worked in parlour she has something to share with him"who was like a 🏠 help but after that it was a routine, boring & empty life.
Love love the Kurta @Aamna! This color suits you 😍. As someone who has struggled with weight - I have always been told what color or style I shouldn't wear and how to wear my Hijab or hair. Looking at you, expressing your feminism through your style and words, it sends out a message to hundreds, if not thousands, of women that when we embrace ourselves, beauty just comes out.
Now at the age of 38, I tell people that I was a late bloomer and didn't bloom until I was in my thirties. I love myself, my body, my choices and appreciate my support system, while ignoring toxic people, comments and situations. On behalf of all women from our social background, I want to thank you. And if you are ever in New York, please please do a meetup. #onthespot
Also @Hassan, you mentioned that you saw some women in hijabs at the movie. Just wanted to clarify that women who take Hijab, aren't always doing it to present their level of piety. For many, it's a cultural thing and for some it's their identity. So they can watch movies that arent fitting societal norms and stand up for human rights. As someone who takes hijab as a form of identity as a Muslim in America, I believe in people's right to express themselves and live however they chose. Hijab doesn't make people narrow-minded...upbringing and exposure does. Just my 2 cents and I mean absolutely no offense. 😊
@@drshireen1 , i am born Hindu and i totally agree with you regarding your views on hijab. And i was mortified at the nonsense that went on in my country recently when the forced removal of the hijab ( in educational institutions) was being debated. Given the nature of the male gaze , i would have happily worn one in my younger years. I love the inherent modesty of the garment. More power to you !
@@anuradhakhanna3930 thank you for this ❤️
Transgenders have been shown in many dramas in positive rolls, but their love life was never touched, and the character was blurred to make it acceptable. Recently Bubbly in Parizad was a transgender, Shamim in Mrs. Mr. Shamim was an effeminate ( also haraam), or transgender( showed aids too). No one blamed them for promoting lgbt. Joyland did not hide the love life of a trans, and the queer palm tag triggered the red flags for people, otherwise everyone would have taken the character as an innocent intersex, khwaja sira. The movie is not a mass entertainer. Such dark, morbid, depressing movies cannot be accused of glorifying or promoting anything. I think the ban campaign created hype and curiosity. This is called judging a book by it’s cover. 😊
Don't compare it with drama, drama always has a learning lesson at the end. But in joyland Father is doing haram kari with her neighbour. The hero wife doing sex with his brother and the hero itself is in transgenders love. Tell me and look around your area or family how much of these cases you heard about. Probably not even a single case in your whole muhalla. This is not common in our society we should not show this to our people on big screens. They just took an award by highlighting that Muslims society is bad.
if the father is morally corrupt, the sons would follow him. Daraar , MPTH ( biggest block buster), but again they never showed a positive ending, so no harm. As far as reality is concerned, have you never seen these Kwajalein sira ( mostly transgenders), satanding on roadside side being picked up in cars, bikes? Mazaars are , specially abdulla shah gazi, are the biggest venues of homos*xuality, according to reports. We know these things happen, just want to brush them under the carpet. To correct anything, we first have to admit that the problem exists.
Both Bubbly and shamim were positive characters and had good happy endings.
@@mahnoorqureshi3281 yes and mumtaz also got pregnant by happy ending by haider's brother
She committed suicide, eternal punishment. How is that happy ending? BTW, didn’t Amna say the child was haider’s?
@39:28 Amna is so obtuse to find out who to look for to find out how to lead a life. That's why this movie is so artistic for them. As a Muslim should we have any confusion? While Hassan is saying in America kids are not ready to study gender fluidity. Which I assume implies that Hassan is ok if kids are being sexualize since younger age the only issue is parents are not ready yet. 🤦🏼♂️
Dear HASSAN am very impressed by your growth as a critique. In your last video you went into technicalities of Intersex or Transgender communities who is what etc. But here you are amplifying nothing but the fact that everyone should be allowed to live with dignity without getting into the nuances. Its either the effect of JoyLand or your growth. Either ways respect. 😎 Also Dear Aamna, you have explained the gist of the movie so beautifully like how the movie about human desires and emotional deprivation. My only request is for both of you to watch this movie - Super Delux on Netflix. It's on Transgender and was super hit in India. Love from across the border. Hopefully we will get to see JoyLand and Maula Jatt in India 🇮🇳
Guys I actually decided to watch the uncensored version of Joyland after watching your review because I trust your critique of any piece of art. However I am appalled at what you guys tried to sell. Your review was totally biased only because you saw Festival De Cannes flashed at the beginning and you decided to hold your tongues on any genuine and sensitive critique which this film required.
First up does it NOT show that Haider was in a homosexual relation??? Big LOL. I am not sure what was shown in the censored version. He was looking to be sodamized by Beba when she decided to throw him out of his life. Is he a GRAY character???? He is outright BLACK. Call it what it is - he cheated on his wife. What are you trying to portray here Amna? Your marriage doesn't have a spark then go have an extra marital affair. You felt like an outcast then go lip lock with a trans because they are from a marginalized part of society???? That's exactly the kind of gender fluidity, immoral desires which the west HAS NORMALISED through their movies and which DO NOT have any room in our religion. Humans are flawed, YES. But we do not have to show them performing Gunah e Kabeera to prove that they are flawed. The rule should be simple from now on - if your defense of an argument begins with oh this wrong already happens in the industry then we should let this pass through the radar as well then there is a problem. Case in point if the filth like Mere Pass Tum Ho was passed on as a masterpiece then this should to. Two wrongs do no make a right. And only because we did not 'protest' at that point creators have come back with the audacity to shove this down our throats. And if it's worth anything Mahwish from Mere Pass Tum Ho was sold as an outright black character, Shaheer Ahmed of Daraar is Black and you have the audacity to come and say that Haider of Joyland is Grey???? Just because his portrayal is more nuanced? Now you know why our dramas have to act out OTT negative characters with all these exaggerated mannerisms and expressions. Because if they wouldn't even educated people like Amna will start calling these characters as grey. I bet if Shaheer Ahmed of Daraar is shown to have mommy issues in the next episode then Amna is going to call his infidelity as grey.
I am convinced now that festivals like these need to see more grit of a third world country to be able to appreciate their art. Hassan did elude to this but I felt he was more wary to elaborate on this further. But putting a trans character in place of Beba was indeed an agenda to get a pat from International festivals. No Amna, Saim does not feel connected to this community, he is actually using them to sell misery porn. If he really cared about progressing THEIR agenda he would have shown this as a trans story of someone who comes out of this rugged part of the society and goes on to become a success in a renowned field. But you bet my life on it that it wouldn't win an award at Cannes because that would show a positive image of our society.
And Hassan was right. There was absolutely no connection of Mumtaz's character arc to her suicide. Which movie did you guys watch?? She did not know anything about Haiders and Bebas affair and she was pretty cool abt her husband doing a mujra. Her only problem was that she ended up pregnant and her father in law was not letting her work. Do you know how many women in Pakistan are going through the exact same thing?? Are you trying to glorify suicide for them because the movie did try to make us sympathize with Mumtaz?? That character just had to commit suicide to check another bullet to sell this to International Festival Jury...a tragedy. There you have another ingredient to make a misery porn which will do so well at Cannes festival - a tragedy which led to a suicide. Poor Mumtaz (not). Also, by this standard, the next character arc for Irha's character in Daraar IS suicide. Will you be okay with that? Haan??
Finally on the casting which you guys totally brushed under the carpet. How is Mumtaz character your quintessential Lahori lower middle class girl?? Not talking about the actor. She did good. But I have been born and brought up in Lahore and there was everything wrong with her characterization. I absolutely could not relate to her characterization and could not place her in any strata of punjabi society. From her dialect to her complexion to her body type to the choice of clothes to her hair. Everything was totally out of character. And no don't tell me you guys haven't talked about each of these attributes when previously trolling casting of some of our dramas. You even had a problem with Mahira's non-voluptuousness for MaulaJatt but Mumtaz and Nucci seemed okay to you???? There was definitely a need for more Punjabi dialogues between the family members because that's exactly what typical Punjabi families do.
Anyways, for anyone who has decided to read up until here. This film was not needed for the Pakistani cinema and society. It had an agenda to go for International film festivals or win an Oscar. Because the criteria over there to win as a Pakistani film is very different. And at this point, you are just turning a blind eye to negate this outright reality.
Such a comprehensive and relevant review! So unfortunate that people have not read this review and given it the appreciation it deserves.
s the hassan said in last i am also missing the connection of mumtaz's suicide with the story and mumtaz never said that she dont want a baby, it was haider who said that mumtaz is not ready for a kid and his father called him impotant on that.
Waise Pakistan mai basically sab hi bigra va hai politics se le k moral values se le k religious conflicts se le k sab kuch bigra va hai . Pakistan mai rape cases bhi hoty hai bacho tak k sath bhi lekin iska matlab ye nahi k ab aap lgbtq bhi promote kre bss isi ki qasar reh gae thi . Mai bhtt hi shoq se apke reviews dekhti thi aur dekhungi lekin is review discussion se mai agree nhi hun . Jo bhi hai kuch bhi hai lkn Pakistan Islam ki bunyad pr bana hai aur islam mai ye sb allow nhi hai PERIOD. Baqi reh gae mumtaz ki baat is movie mai uska relationship apne brother in law k sath tha and she was pregnant with him not with haider. Pata nhi hassan ne ye baat q nahi batai aur Amna also didn’t say anything lekin afsos hua review dekh kar but koi nahi everyone has their own way of thinking.
May Allah guide us . Ameen
Lots of love to both of you .❤
Amna I'm so sad to hear this 39:40.
I really appreciate when you speak against violence in dramas, but it's sad to hear that you don't apply the same rules for deen. Would you call the behavior of shamsher in the drama before, an "art"? Ofcourse not, you too strictly condenm the act, then why not do the same to thing in this matter, why different rules for islam? If you publicly condenms shamsher's acts then why not publicly condenm that the relationships shown in that film is totally wrong?. You say that no one said it's right but you didn't condemn it too!
The matter is not that whether they promotes it or not, the problem here is that it will normalize showing movies or films with these types of stories, and if we normalize it by showing in our movies then it will also become normal in our society and then our kids and their minds and hearts. For example, if the directors will show the kiss scene in one of the dramas, and no one condenms it or protest against showing these types of things publicly, so another time any other director will not be scared to show this in his dramas, and that's how we normalize things. If the first drama in which slap shown was condemned,then no one would've ever be able to show violence in other dramas, but unfortunately it has normalized and now we're not been able to protest against it because every single drama contains it. That's why we want to condemn those extreme different types of fahashi shown in that film. If this normalize, our family structure and islamic values will be ruined, which is dangerous for future of the country and the hereafter.
I personally don't like andrew tate much, but one of his quotes came into my mind while typing my comment:
"If you're tolerant of everything, you stand for nothing"
Hassan atleast we want you to understand it.
Hassan to answer your question why Haider fell for Deeba because in Homosexuality one has to be more feminine and usually trans person becomes more feminine
Not convinced yet u guys tried hard to convince your audience and to normalize watching a man having sex with trans ,just think for a sec if something in your family do this Khuda na khwasta
Please let amna speak!!Wallahi she was really patient!!
Aamna and Hassan both seem to be very knowledgeable people yet they don't know the difference between transgender and khwajasira (intersex)??
Very well explainec Hasan and Aamna i would love to watch it but not sure if it is releasing in UK. Hopefuly it gets released on Netflix maybe . well done.
The thing is such subjects are sooooo taboo about desires and relationships which cause more curosity which in turn has lead sooo many people watch x rated films which is not right as well. Is par bol rahey hain to jo content is sey bhi ghalat hota hai us par nahi boltey
Hassan and Amna may be haider is bisexual. Why have you not thought about it? Human sexuality is also grey for some people like you always say. Love you both
14:44 THIS.
This is what these kinds of movies do. They make you feel sympathy or empathy for these kinds of characters. Today, you'll feel this for a man who doesn't have a spark in his marriage and starts an extramarital affair with a trans. Tomorrow, they can show you a movie about a pedophile, a serial killer, or a rapist, and you'll feel sympathy and empathy for them. This sympathy and empathy slowly and gradually lead to acceptance and normalization of a sin. People involved in it will have the courage to publicly accept it as their life choice while other people will accept them as their human right. In the end, you'll be living in a culture where gay marriages will be acceptable. What's the point of making a country on the name of Islam if you have to do the same unislamic acts in it that's happening in the rest of the world?
Sorry to say Amna but I completely disagree with you here that no one is going to get inspired to be a homsexual or transgender after watching the movie. It's same when you guys discuss that slapping or emotional abuse is being subtly potrayed in the dramas. And it's normalizing it. It's exactly the same thing. Please don't contradict your own point of view.
gunnah gunnah hai us mai koi do ray nhi hoti...
Guys try speaking sense all you want, unfortunately our society will always rank "homosexuality" a horrific unspeakable sin, which must not be spoken of, whereas every other vice being shown on Pakistani tv/film qualifies to be suitable art or entertainment. It is ridiculous to believe that movies like joyland will normalise homosexuality in Pakistan when it is already so commonly practiced here, in addition to rape, pedophilia and sexual violence.
People are treating the release of this movie like gay marriage has been legalised in Pakistan. Showing the reality of society, that too in adult rated films, is not something new in Pakistani cinematic content. Also let's face it, if banning porn websites hasn't done this society any good, what's banning a censored and choppy version of Joyland going to do.
There’s always a starting point before the floodgates are open. You and the Pakistani progressives need to stop with the whataboutism. Or admit openly that religion doesn’t drive their life and whatever they are preaching is pretty much a small % of what the masses believe in.
@@ziajami are you honestly in the position to say that if someone is not in favour of banning a particular film, then they should admit that religion isn't driving their life? I can understand why people are against promoting such films especially in the current political climate and can respect their opinion. In fact, it probably shouldn't have been made for cinema in the first place.. Pakistani society was never going to welcome it given previous recent bans. But I don't understand the moral superiority.
I just want to know where we as an Islamic Republic will draw the line. This movie is not a "Ek larki ko dekha" or "chandigarh karay aashiqui". There was no agenda being peddled or acceptance of homosexuality being preached.
But like they both are saying, Pakistan isn't ready for such content and we're always going to be uncomfortable discussing the ugly reality of society.
@fzm9910 What would be the driving force behind supporting such content? Especially with the intention of normalizing it? Pakistan has never claimed to be a liberal secular state, why is the backlash a surprise? Also my statement may be presumptuous directed at you, and for that I apologize. But I’ve been following the progressive liberal Pakistanis for quite some time and I’ve seen a pattern and my statement is the result of my observations. My problem is with the hypocrisy, these people are free to support any content they want, but don’t be duplicitous about the intent, masses follow our celebrities and influencers and that’s dangerous. At least if they make it clear from the get go that they are liberals/atheist/non practicing Muslims people would be more cautious of falling for their words. The team of Joyland literally shared Quranic verses to support their movement, while they want to completely ignore chunks of the holy book that condemn what they stand for. Deceptive and ill intentioned.
Mumtaz became pregnant with her Jait they cut those scene lol I don’t know what Hassan has watched
He raised the question why she committed suicide and Amna who has watched uncensored version told him the reason that she was depressed 😮 instead of fact that she was carrying her Jaiths child.
Because they think it's normal in our families you know
@@sanazahid1081 🤣🤣🤣
I just saw the “uncensored” version on TH-cam (excellent print btw) and I was so much in awe of the movie that I couldn’t come out of the realm of Joyland for a good couple of hours -
I was spellbound by the sheer brilliance of this masterpiece - so proud of team Joyland - now waiting for it to bring the Oscar back home -
@Muhammad A'raaf it’s no longer there/ the makers must have gotten that removed
This film is not about homesexuality so how could people say k homosexuality ko glorify kia gya ha its about infidelity a guy who could possibly have an affair with another woman but here he got involved with a khujasara but at the end he lost his wife and his unborn child because he cheated on her he got published for what he did I don't understand why people keep say LGBT pr ha no its not
I strongly disagree with Amna's perspective and disappointed also.
Amna should have gone and seen the censored part as well. Hassan doesn't even know what was butchered. Also sexual orientation or gender is not a psychological struggle or a choice. I think the film is an invitation to learn about these concepts. Haider is sexually fluid for sure.
When the film ends, do you feel empathy/sorry for Haider and/or Biba?
Yes! You do.
@@gulsaanga4533 that confirms the concerns of those against this film. Thanks for your reply :)
@@gulsaanga4533 Do u feel bad for mumtaz? as her husband was cheating on him? will we normalize extra marital affair? will we normalize sex with a transgender?
@@aishkhan566 you feel bad for Mumtaz more. Actually you feel bad for each and everyone, but never for a minute you think that Biba and Haider didn't deserve it. You feel bad but you somehow justify the outcome. It's just a story. And as Amna said you relate to at least one of the character.
You feel bad for haider's wife
After listening to this review, I wish I could watch and support Joyland's plot in a world where hate prevails after all. Unfortunately, I cannot watch this being in New Zealand.
Challenge for both amna and Hassan.. plz tell me the example of single person in ur family like this... Plz we want to listen how is it the story of every house??? Plz do let us know about this if u are so true to ur concerns..
Same
Hassan you might as well have done this whole video on your own considering you barely let Aamna say ANYTHING
I'm so proud of Aamna and Hassan for speaking so candidly about the movie! I LOVE AAMNA for EVERY SINGLE WORD SHE'S SPOKEN W.R.T. THE MOVIE! It's sad how we prevail in a society which can blindly critique absolutely anything WITHOUT EVEN WATCHING or grasping the main learning of a film. THANK YOU BOTH OF YOU! Thank you Something Haute!
I want to watch the movie and I watched your last discussion on joyland and I agree with Aamna's review but I've heard that the international awards that this movie has gotten like representation in Cannes, are not in general category but specifically in lgbtq category. Is this true?
Yes it's true
it is true but i think we need to remember that the LGBTQ+ term is made by the west, and for them gay, lesbian, trangender, INTERSEX (a person who is BORN with reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t fit the boxes of “female” or “male") ect.. for them it's all under the same category
Han jee.
Khwaja sira is queer. So off course it comes under LGBTQ.
Yes Quere
galat ko galat khna seekhain...aik hilal rishty kay hoty huay koi b na jaiz rishta ys soch ky ban lena ky hilal rishty mai spark ni h??kya pagal hn ap log??agar ap apni married life mai nhi rhna chahty to tariqay say rishta khatam kr dain...is tarah to jin aurtun ky shohar bhr rhty hn unhain b khawja sira ky sath relation bna lena chahiay??ni??agar ap dono mai say kisi ke family mai aisa koi ho to phr kya karain gay ap dono??
I don't think people in Pakistan understand what trans is. An justifying it. It's men, who are dressing as a women. They were born with male genitals. Not female. Which in Islam is so wrong. Then a man falling in love with another man. Wrong. Amna and hassan, Allah swt has given you this, put you in a position to educate people as people follow you. Not take them in the wrong path. You will be held accountable for this too. Also just because it gets appreciation all over the world doesn't mean it's great. So does Israel get appreciation from all over the world. An we know what they think of Islam.
یعنی آپ کے کہنے کا مطلب یہ ہے کہ couple میں spark نہ ہو تو وہ کہیں بھی جا کے منہ مار سکتا ہے۔۔۔ کیا justification دی ہے بھئی کمال ہے۔
I know my comment is not valuable but still i think i should share my point... Heejraas are not allowed to have sexual relationships in islam and that's it. Discussion closed. To hell with art and it's boundaries. Had hi hogai ha matlab.
I came back to this video to appreciate something haute for standing their ground after seeing other entertainment portals opinions on Joyland - they commit sins themselves all day and don't appreciate criticism for it but choose to further alienate and marginalize a minority using religion. Our fingers should be clean before we point at others. You knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion with your audience yet you chose to stand by what you believe in. Truly the most intellectual entertainment portal we have and I'm so glad for it. Just wanted you to know your courage makes you a respectable platform as journalists!
Sexuel content ghusana zaruri hai film main? uske bagair zyada film chale gi aur ban shan b nhi hogi. With all due respect Sarmad Khoosat sahab please dont try to be "Karan Johar" of Pakistan, we know you are a very talented artist please make films without homo, gay, lesbian content. Abi recently Mrs and Mr Shameem aye thi first episode main laga maybe Nauman Ijazs character is gay.. but no unho ne boht hi ache tareekay se AIDS jaise senstive topic ko dikhaya aur us main ye dikahaya gaya k is beemari se insan ki kya halat ho jati hai aur dosri taraf ye b batya k ye sirf sexuel relationship se nhi hoti aur bi wajuhaat ho sakti hai. Ab us series main koi sexuelity nhi dikhai gaye. In Joyland Biba k character ko wo Haider ka acha dost b dikha sakte thay jo morally support kare. Ya agar inho ne aisa content hi banana hai aur ban b nhi hona chahte phir Zee5, Amazon prime ya kisi aur international media pe chala den.
But people said on Twitter that Mumtaz was carrying her brother in law son. She was having relationship with her brother in law. And it was not haider son.
I feel like the censorboard butchered it. I also didn't like the aspect ratio of the film.
Apart from that, Haiders character was beautiful. I don't think I have ever seen a more sensitive man or such a softer version of masculinity before. The film isn't even about Biba or the alleged affair- it's more about gendered roles in society. Haider is shamed for being too soft, Mumtaz is forced out of work because of gender roles and the whole family wants her to be the baby maker of the next son of the house. Sania Saeed can't express her desire to be remarried because it's considered inappropriate in our society.
Love you guys and watch every review and video that you both do but for some strange reason I don't want to watch this video as it's giving me anxiety. This whole trans thing has made me very very uncomfortable to watch this movie or hear about the reviews. Just doesn't feel right...
That's fair. I must say though that you're missing out on a fine piece of cinema by not watching Joyland.
Good decision sister stay away from fitna specially when your religion is advicing you to not follow these actions
Yes every type of person in LGBTQ is completely haram in Islam but Joyland is not anti Islamic movie and it has nothing to do with it
Movies ka purpose ideal conditions show karna nhi hota , society ko mirror dikhana hota hai
It 's a story of our society.
Hamai society mein zinaa bhi hota hai , logon ke extra marital affairs bhi hotay aur homosexuality bhi bohat ziada hoti hai .Hamaray deeni madaris mein , hostels mein aur professionally bhi homosexualty hoti hai .
Agar aap iss movie ko ban karwana chahtay hain toh phir toh bohat saari movies ban honi chaahiyaein
SOOD Islam mein haram hai aur Allah ke khilaaf ailan e jang hai .Hamara poora banking system sood par based hai .Jintni bhi movies hain jin mein koi bank ka scene ho unhein ban kar dena chahiye because it is anti Islam
Dance Haram hai jis movie mein dance ho usse ban hona chahiye.
Sharaab Islam mein haram hai toh har wo movie jiss mein sharaab ho usse ban kro.
Maula jutt mein murder ko glorify kia hai usse ban kro.Baap ka badla betay aur uss ki family se lena haram hai .
Suicide karna haram hai toh Sang e Mah ko ban kro
Agar aap sirf isse ban karwana chahtay hain then it is called hypocrisy
In the whole movie they donot called her Transgender.
She is shown as a khawajasara ( it may be intersex or may be transgender because it is not clear in the whole movie)
Aur overreact toh hum aisay kar rahey hain jesay aisi story pehli dafa ai hai.Iss saal Pakistani series MRS AND MR SHAMEEM mein aik gay character show kia tha jis ki wajan se Shameem ko aids hua tha .Last year Pakistani series QATIL HASEENAON KE NAAM mein bhi aik gay character aur uss mein toh unhein ne openly show bhi kiya tha .ALIF ALLAH AUR INSAAN mein transgender ko aik larki se pyaar ho jata hai.
Hamaray bachay jo CARTOONS dekhtay hain unn mein LGBTQ ko promote kiya jaata hai, unhein toh hum ne ban nhi kiya kabhi.
Netflix ki har doisri series mein LGBTQ ko promote kiya jaata hai aur hamari poori youth dekhti hain .Netflix ko toh hum ne Pakistan mein ban nhi kiya.
Hamaray bachay bachay ko Superman ka name pata who is a gay Character.
SHOW SOME MATURITY
Ye jo log iss par ghatiya ilzaam laga rahey hain inhein ye pata hona chahiye ke apni aankon se dekhe bagair kisi cheez par ilzaam lagana BOHTAAN hota hai jo ke transgender honay se bhi bara gunah hai.
HYPOCRISY AT IT'S PEAK
I was reading comments. And it makes me happy that we still have sane people around us, who don't support joyland for religious reasons. So disappointed on Something haute though.
Is this film releasing internationally? I didn’t get any information about that from anywhere. If you guys know anything about that so please share.
I live in Australia and I hope it’s released here too.
Oh God, I shouldn't have read the comments. I don't know why I thought there will be some nuanced discussion on human complexity and how we navigate our lives in such a nonbinary world. But no, one-word transgender is enough to make us entertain our most innate desire to be hypocrites.
Thank God for this film exposing how we operate as human beings using the garb of religion to show intolerance, hatred, and prejudice as a defense mechanism.
The characters in this film are real people, not aliens hijacked from the West. And that's the reason it is hitting so close to home. Such movies are made to question. They're not giving you answers or teaching you. They're not there to entertain. If you can't deal with basic human issues then don't watch the film. You guys aren't ready!
Totally agree with you, we all need to introspect, the world is changing and that is the only constant. Cinema should reflect that change or indeed make us reflect on our perceptions. Too many believe that merely watching a movie like this is going to " promote" a different culture. What we don't realise is that it very much exists but is largely ignored because we fear the conversation around it, we fear accepting it exists. It will continue to do so, whether cinema addresses it or not.
Its sooo common in our society.. Having gay /lesbian extra marital affair ! Kabootar ki tarah ankhain band kar lain Bas!
Known atleast 3 cases where the wife has no clue of the husband being involved in HOMO sexual Extra affair ... and keeping a masoom wife and family on the side .. IN Pakistan.. i live in Canada .. people are honest here atleast ... !not destroying others life atleast!
Agreed, its just a bunch of men who don't want to be caught because they do engage in homosexuality. They would prefer their wives being unaware and quite, being their domestic slaves
Khawaja saràs are not males, they have no gender and they are born like that then why are you confusing them with gays/homosexuals
Hassan , my two cents as to what drove Mumtaz to suicide after how things seem to be taking shape is that years of emotional deprivation cannot be fixed even when things start to go right and its not within ones power to comprehend fully the true nature of things and so control your own reactions at that time.
You guys have misunderstood Hailer’s character..
Excellent reviews. Hassan Amna and different but amazing movie joyland
I don't think promiscuity, gender fluidity and even infidelity are the problems going on with every pakistani family out there that we have to make such graphic content.. Why not make shows/movies like Dirliş Ertuğrul to show people the right way of doing things instead of making stuff like Joyland where half the people are just not gonna watch it because of the way it's portrayed? We can show KhwajaSira community getting empowered like we've shown some of the female characters in dramas like Sabaat or Humsafar etc. and Mumtaz did all that just to commit suicide matlab dunya to gayi hi thi ab qayamat tak suicide hi karte rahe wo.....
P.S. suicide is haram as well and that's a fact and I've got no qualms stating that..