NEW 767 - Boeing's Unreleased Answer To Airbus?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- In 2019, it was reported Boeing was studying a re-engine of the 767F, labelled the 767XF and while nothing ever firmed, there were also question marks around a re-engine to the passenger 767. Would this be the answer Boeing needed in the middle of the market, why haven't we seen it yet and are there any other important considerations to be made? This is a run down of the limited interest in a re-engine to the 767, why it doesn't make sense and much more analysis.
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They should've done that with the B-757. Now it's too late.
Couldn't agree more. It-is-too-late.
The issue with the 757 is that its way to expensive to build, in a way A320 is a cheaper 757. The A321XLR and the 757-200 have very similar performance. The A321XLR is actualy got longer range, more capacity and slightly higher performance (well mostly because its lighter).
Boeing need to make a 7j7 with a wider span of capacity. I would say its clear today that we would compare a 757 with a A310 or a A300, the narrow body is really more economical, hence preferable today. Wide bodies need to be A330 size before they are really coming exponomical.
@@matsv2017J7? Like the experimental prop plane?
Both should have gotten an X-update.
Why re-engine the 767? The 787 has made it obsolete in a sense...though it is a very good freighter. I think they need something with a diameter in between a 767 and a 757, twin aisle, with some sort of 2-2-2 or 2-3-2 coach configuration. Most people don't like having to crawl past more than one seat when they need the lavatory...
2-2-2 would be great, but I don't think the airlines would like it.
yes and make a big loggy
767 v 787 was my thought as well. you'd need an insane demand in that size sector for two equally sized aircraft to work out but as we've seen with the a319 v a220 even then one will be preferred over the other. The 76 is a good plane, but people need to realize it has a clean sheet successor.
just re-engine the 767-200 and 300. the 400 is essentially a densely configured -8 or a less dense configured -9 from the 787 series
There is a major difference between the 767 and 787: the latter is one third heavier. It's an amazing and efficient airplane, but besides from being slightly bigger than the 767(-300) it has a lot more range, which makes it less suitable for shorter flights (North Atlantic anyone ...). Up to around 6-7 hours the 787 burns no less fuel than the 767-300ER ...
I absolutely adore the 767, it is a beloved childhood memory of flying on a Qantas 767-300ER (no winglets) and I remember the great proportions, cabin feel and layout as well as the sound of those engines. I was lucky enough to fly on one of the few with RB-211. It is still a treasured memory, small as it may seem.
I’d absolutely love to see a new 767
Or just make a freighter version of the 787?
They’ve been talking about that to, but that may sound more legitimate since how old the 767 is
No they shouldnt. The 787 especially the -8 is a great replacement.
Sadly, Boeing is currently not able to bing a new airplane to the market.
They have been trying to do that with the max7, max10, 777X and 777X-F.
For the past years, Boeing has been overwhelmed with just these airplanes.
Just flew the 767 for the first time. Japan Airlines has kept this beautiful plane alive. What a great ride
Im a 767 FO. Im all for keeping it alive! Its an INCREDIBLE aircraft. I hope we see a re engine of it and keep it in the skies for decades to come. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
Great, build a competitor for your own 787. Very sound business thinking. If Boeing do this, there is absolutely no hope for them.
The 787 does not have a model in the 767-300ER size class, often used with 200-220 passengers in longish range roles. This is why Boeing was considering the "NMA" a few years back.
The B763ER and B788 serve different market niches which only overlap slightly.
I assume this would be easier than a 757 re-engine because with a re-engine, usually comes a new wing design as well, but seeing as the 767-400 already had an enhanced wing with raked wing tips for added efficiency, all they would have to really do is maybe some structural improvements and, of course, new engines.
The major reason why this is easier is that there is already a suitable engine in existance for the 767. This looks different in case of the 757, where one engine would be too weak and the other too big and strong.
The KC46 tanker was based on the 767-2C which was FAA certified.
The 767-2C is the 767-200ER with the improved wing of the -300 and the glass cockpit of -400. There is already taller landing gear for the 767 from the 767-400 which needed taller gear due to the stretch.
The pieces already are in place to re-engine 767 with the GENX-2b used on the 747-8.
The question will be whether airlines want a re-engine with the existing wing and systems or a full 767-X with a new carbon fiber wing, folding wing tips, larger windows, full 787 cockpit, etc - the full 777x package of improvements except the folded wing width needs to be kept within Code D airport gate parameters so not to require wide body gates.
United Airlines has stated multiple times they want a new 767. In speaking with senior pilots with multiple airlines, a 767-200x would be an ideal middle of the market that can fill that 200-250 seat market.
I was under the impression that the NM 797 would be tasked to fill the role that the modified 767 is going to fill.
The 767X would have made a lot of sense, but 5 years ago, now it's too late. Everything was ready and waiting to be put together: the 767-400 as a base, the engine in the form of the GEnx-2b, modern avionics and flight deck on the tanker. A 767X which is slightly longer than the 767-300 would have been a good seller, and filled the big gap between the A321/737-9/10 and 787-8/A330-200. This gap does not only exist in terms of capacity, but also in terms of weight and range.
Its not happening. The 767 was replaced by the 787. The A330 was better than the 767. It would only happen for the freighter or military version, if it makes economic sense.
Ya that and 757
I’ve been parroting this near exact idea. 2 fuselage lengths 400ER wings, GEnx power and most importantly the 787 cockpit. Modern interior for slightly wider seats and ample storage, even consider window placement and size changes similar to the 777x. Then concentrate on a single aisle 737 replacement.
The 787 sits in this area and its an exceptional performer. The 787 replaced the 767 in passenger service. As for an improved freighter, the 787 could become a 787F as well.
I think a re-engined Boeing 767 could make some sense. They would have practically the same airplane design and a few modifications here and there. The Boeing company is already in the works to produce the 787 into a freighter airplane with various operators showing some interest.
Wish Boeing do same thing with 757X, use composite wings and new engines instead of keep upgrades 737 👎👎
They already did a re engined 767......it's called the 787
Thank you for sharing your video here. I have always loved the 767s in general. They are great aircraft to fly and work on. I have flown on the 767s to Europe and to South America. I love the wide-body aircraft flying over the oceans to great countries.😊 And there is more space to feel comfortable flying those long distances. When Boeing plaed the winglets on the 767s that helped thst aircraft more in flying. We will have to see at what point the whole 767s will be retired from all USA airliners. But that will take some time. Furthermore, I continue to like the 767s being used for cargo as well!!😊 The cargo flying looks great getting packages to different cities. Finally, being a former Purser Flight Attendant from a USA carrier, I continue to feel really good about flying in general. I continue to wish that Boeing and Airbus build safe aircraft to fly passengers to great countries.😊
I just realised that I have not subscribed...OMG.
Subed now.
Please do correct me if I'm wrong. But I thought Boeing re-engined the military tanker version of the plane for the USAF.
That's like 10 years too late
You do know that the A300 Widebody twinjet preceeded the 767 by almost a decade. BTW why would Boeing re-engine the 767, and take away customers from the 787.
Would a 787 that is shortened by 3 m (10ft) compared to the 787-8 and have about 210 seating capacity be sufficiently fuel efficient for long distance low capacity middle of the market flights?
Isn’t that the 787-3??
@@jeremydee5424 No, the 787-3 was planned to be a shorter range model. It would have been the same size as the 787-8 but with shorter wings.
I flew on a Delta 767 from Salt Lake City to Paris. It was a very plane.
very . . .
very what ?
Absolutely not, it would be redundant to the 787! The 757 on the other hand, should have been upgraded instead of the 737 MAX. I think Boeing should still develop an upgraded 757 to challenge the A321-LR/XLR Its the only platform that could!!
the 787 is the already 767 successor, no doubt about it. Boeing should have re-engined the 757 to compete with the A321 neo but they have chosen the 737-10 that it's not even close to certification
Anything Boeing does nowadays, one has to question their ability to execute it professionally.
I think a re-engined 757 would be a better option.
We know what happend when Boeing re-engined a plane. 🔥
Max disaster
I rather think Boeing needs to get their act together and start delivering planes on schedule, without clear manufacturing or design faults...
The 767 did not pave the way for long-haul twin-jets, the a300/310 did. Boeing just strong-armed regulators and politicians to hold off on approving ETOPs until they had a product in the market.
not feeling this
why not...they are out of ideas anyways
Its too late for that.
Yes, they should re-engine the Boeing 767.
The replacement of 767 is 787, if you think of a smaller 787 update with less wingspan to fit in 767 category yeah it'll be fine
The 787-3 was already designed as the 787-8 with shorter wing. It was found the 787-8 was more efficient on flights over 200-300 miles and the original customers who ordered the 787-3 converted their orders to the 787-8.
The 787-8 is much heavier than the 767. In reality, if you are going to the length of 767-300 or 767-400, the 787 is already there. Now a 767-200 sized plane would fill the middle of the market and have much better range and cargo capacity than stretched 737 or a321 aircraft.
@@raptorshootingsystems3379 yes smaller 787
Nobody needs a reengined 767 as there is the A330-800...
787??
I'm sorry. Isn't the 87 the replacement for the 67?
I think Boeing should re engine the 767 but also bring back the 757 but more modernized. We know that the 757 is gone, but the 737-10 max doesn’t have the full capability unlike the 757
777 x is also re engine but looks like new engine causing too much problems. So sales delayed.
I say re-engine just the -200 and -300 that's the perfect size for a middle of the market aircraft.
Sure this "beloved" tube and wing just like any other can re engine it or release a brand new plane... But it's not the plane anymore. It's the quality of deliveries from Boeing and whether it's safe.
Re-engine and put a hidden system on it that pushes the nose down
I feel like the 787-8 has effectively replaced the 767 and with their other issues they’re dealing with, it’s a much better decision to dedicate time and resources toward improving QC, developing a replacement for the 737, and getting the 777X certified.
Oh Lawrdy … clean their shitty act first then focus on unnecessary ideas once that crappy actions gets fixed !
I have lost My respect on them.
The only way that the 767x could make sense is if GE wants to see more sales of the GENX-2B which they have developed for the 747-8. The 767 has been using the same engines as the 747 anyway
A shorter range 787-3 or some sort would make more sense since the 767 is way too old by design even with new engines, the 787 series would only make sense to add a new variant
This 787-3 would require a new, smaller and lighter wing, unlike the once planned 787-3.
Nah...we good... Don't want another 737 crash-max by the DC10 management team
Boeing replaced the 767 with the 787-8. While it's not a perfect replacement, much like the A321 is not a perfect replacement for the 757, very few airlines are lamenting the absence of the 767 as they do the 757.
Boeing recognizes that a re-engined 767 would likely suffer the same fate as the A330neo.
I really see no point to this video. Boeing is not suffering in the widebody sector, which the 767 is. It's just another excuse to talk about Boeing's issues with the Max and to highlight how successful Airbus is. Boring!!
You have answered the question, n'est pas? If they were going to do it then they would have. I think the 767 is a great plane and should be re-engined. I flee on an Aeromexico 767 from Tijuana, Mexico to Narita Japan in 2010. Loved it!
DJ,, some airlines in USA are weighing passengers and charging as per weight,, can u weigh in or expand on this ? is this fat shaming or safety ?
safety. if you don't fit in a single fucking seat, maybe you shouldn't be sitting on it.
767xf makes a lot of sense (only f version), then certify it wifh cockpit commonality with the 777s and the 787s. The 787 is too expensive for a frieghter version.
No, they should Fire the CEO and hire SOMEONE who could get Boeing out of its current woes
Just what the world needs ..... Another Max. Boeing needs to fix its issues building planes before it starts grandiose plans.
Boeing has been such a disappointment. Simple re-engining the 767 would require more support in and around the engine pylons and wing structure, but the lower empty weight would help the 767 remain competitive. I would argue that the right engine choice could even make the small, cozy 767-200ER economically viable again, and the 767-400ER airframe would become an amazing passenger and cargo airplane. With the same fuel capacity, the airplane’s range would be extended. This airplane could be flying pretty quickly from an engineering standpoint, and since the 767 is still in production and will be for many more years, all Boeing would need to do is adapt their 767 line to continue building and cultivating the wonderful 767 airframe. United looked at ordering more 767-300s some years ago, and they would love to get their hands on these wonderful, updated planes. The 757 would be a bit more difficult because Boeing foolishly stopped building them to try to force sales of the much-delayed Dreamliner. Airlines are desperately seeking to renew their fleets, it how can you do that when Airbus and Boeing cannot credibly schedule delivery slots until 2030 and beyond.
I love 767 and would love to se it flying for another 50 years.
767 wing design is over 40 years old. 767 will need new wings ala 747-8 to go with new engines.
767 was cancelled because it wasn’t competitive with A330. It was a failure to begin with and only sold because American carriers wasn’t buying Airbus
Of course it is. Lets take a 40 year old design, slap new engines and winglets on it. Put in a glass cockpit, and sell it like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Saves a ton of cash
Hmm the A300 has entered the chat
this will be beaten by a330-800
You mean the 767 followed the a300 as a twin engined wide bodied aeroplane.
767-300 fuselage, -400 wing, new engines, glass cockpit, MOM winner.
Boeing won't do it, the company has completely lost its way.
Boeing is a company in a desperate need of a new leader, he needs to be quality consciences and leave the accounting to the accountants otherwise they will be left behind.😢
Time to get out of the steam era & embrace futuristic aircraft designs, given that current aircraft flying are in reality just incremental improvements of 1950/60s era designs.
✈️
They should have been re-engined a decade ago.
If suitable engines are available, (downrated 787 ones?) savings could be made.
But perhaps they should also consider new wings (based on the 787) along with avionics and controls taken directly from the
787. This would help with pilot rating.
As for the fuselage, perhaps weight reductions in the way they did with the 777x?
Although, if Airbus could shrink the A330neo back to the size of the A300/310 it was developed from, that might be a little troublesome for Boeing.
Suitable engines have been available. They exist on the 747-8
The problem with the 767 is that its still made by Boeing.
Boeing are effectively known as DARUS these days, which basically stands for:
DODGY
AIRCRAFT
R
US!😬👎😳🤡
If the consequences of their blatant corner cutting wasn't so damn serious it would be laughable.
B767 neo
Boeing has been drowning in various big, big problems for a number of years now, and at least temporarily has lost its profitability. The 767 freighters are a small but at least positive contributer to the bottom line of the enterprise. In 2022 and 23 combined, Boeing sold 61 of these aircraft, of which 45 were to become KC-46 (US) tankers and 6 tankers for other nations (Japan, Israel). I.e. there were just 10 orders for civilian freighters. If Boeing HAD enough spare engineers to create a new composite wing, then they should design one for the 737 successor.
Engine manufacturers would not consider to develop a new 767 engine - given the small size of the market .
A suitable engine for the 767 already exists. It’s the GENX-2B found on the 747-8
Delta buy Moore A A330-900neo. Great video ❤
In the short term…there would be more positives than negative…it comes down to Boeings ego.
Again ! Another old design with new engines,come on,they never learn !
Boeing already re-engined the 767, it’s called the 787
Ridiculous
Let's call it the 767 Max 😂
Excuse me? No one loves the 767 (the original 666). It is shitte to fly, smack your nuts, enjoysble, to fly in.
I refuse to fly in his aircraft. It is worse than a 737.