Why Exit Interviews Are Stupid - Your Practice Ain’t Perfect - Joe Mull
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode of Your Practice Ain’t Perfect, we’re talking about Why Exit Interviews Are Stupid and What You Should Do Instead.
Joe Mull, M.Ed, is a practice manager leadership trainer and keynote speaker who works with healthcare organizations that want their practice leaders to engage, inspire, and succeed. As an expert in employee engagement and healthcare leadership development, Joe gives physicians and managers the skills and tools they need to engineer teams that work hard, get along, and wow patients. After more than a decade in healthcare, Joe knows that when leaders develop skills related to leadership, communication, and teambuilding, they can stop putting fires out every day and prevent them from sparking in the first place. Bring Joe in to keynote your conference, design and facilitate a retreat, or beef up your practice leader training. For more info or to book Joe now visit www.joemull.com.
“It’s a bit absurd if you think about it. The employee who has chosen to leave is consulted as to the direction and performance of the team and organization. That doesn't make a lot of sense. For some reason, we assume that, freed from the need for self-preservation, these departing employees will shine a light on what’s really going on in the unit or practice, and that these interviews, when compiled over time, might help identify patterns or prevalent issues in need of reform.
That never happens.
Exit interviews are stupid. They're a waste of time. Stop doing them. In this episode of Your Practice Ain’t Perfect, I’ll tell you why and what you should be doing instead. Stick around…
So let me get this straight. An employee has decided they are no longer going to be a part of the future of your organization, so NOW’s the time to solicit their feedback, or hear their concerns, or mine them for ideas? It really is silly, if you think about it.
Here’s an idea. How about asking your current employees?
Personnel on their way out may be honest in an exit interview, but often they are not. In fact, I’ve seen many experts encourage those leaving NOT to be honest in exit interviews as it could still be professionally harmful.
Stop wasting your time with exit interviews. Instead, engage your current employees. Develop and install ways to hear their feedback, their ideas, their opinions and concerns. In fact, here are 3 specific things to try instead of exit interviews:
• Do stay interviews. Develop a set of questions you use once or twice a year to ask direct reports about their fulfillment level at work. Ask them what would cause them to leave. Ask them what keeps them there. Ask them for suggestions on how to improve … anything. And if you already do recurrent one-on-one meetings with your direct reports, that’s even better, as long as you have these kinds of conversations during those meetings.
• 360 Feedback assessments. A 360 feedback instrument invites others to evaluate and comment on the performance of a single employee. If the process is administered correctly, it can be a valuable tool for all involved, especially leaders. 360 assessments are a great way to draw out things that live under the surface, which is what you’re trying to do in those exit interviews anyway, right?
• Town hall meetings: Once or twice a year, set aside time for a wide-open town-hall style meeting, where your teams, the entire department, or everyone in the organization gets together and sits down with leadership to share concerns, ask questions, and discuss challenges. Leadership must be genuinely invested in drawing these things out, so set ground rules that make it safe to be honest, and as the leader, be prepared with a few thought-provoking questions to get started.
I write extensively about these tactics and more in my book, Cure for the Common Leader: What Physicians & Managers Must Do to Engage & Inspire Healthcare Teams, which is available on Amazon.
Nobody has time to waste at work anymore, so stop wasting time on exit interviews. When employees depart, thank them for their service, regardless of their performance. Wish them well on their next adventure. If you didn’t ask for their feedback while they were there, don’t bother asking as they depart. Instead, turn around and initiate that conversation with individual contributors who are sticking around. Chances are, they’ll tell you the truth, because they care enough to stay.
If you like this video, then please share it and tell me why in the comments box below. While you’re there, tell me about the people management problems or staff drama you want me to talk about in future episodes of Your Practice Ain’t Perfect, which you can subscribe to by going to joemull.com. See you next time.”
Joe Mull- Speaker, Author, Trainer
www.joemull.com
Twitter:@joemull77
I also think they are stupid because, given I want to leave a business why would I offer them helpful feedback when they didn't listen to me when I was part of the business and because of their not listening decided to leave.
Yes exactly. And besides it's not like they will make things better anyway and do something about it. Like the most common complaint is not enough pay. Then they have people do surveys on what can they do to make it better: pay more money.....okay that goes in one ear and other so why even bother wasting a person's time when clearly they will do nothing about it that
Thanks for uploading this! I’m on my way out in 10 days, and I will not subject myself to this idiotic process,
If they didn’t care to ask before, they don’t need to know now.
I like the idea of "Stay Interviews". Your ideas are great for all types of managers, not just healthcare organizations.
Thanks for the kind words...glad to be of help!
Make sure the 'stay interviews' are anonymous or they're useless. 360 interviews are a joke where your boss and HR can find out what you say and then fire you
as an employee that has given notice, I would think a meeting BEFORE then to say why do you want to leave? Can we make some adjustments? But no... I gave my notice, and nothing.... just a request to give a specific 'last day' so they can find a replacement... and this is after working with this company 15 years... No write ups, no conflicts. My reason for leaving? I asked for a different schedule, after being on the same one for over 10 years... I simply wanted a day off mid week that was scheduled. That was it. No talking about it no negotiation, just NO. And I promised myself that if they were not going to be flexible, not going to even discuss any alternatives, that I was going to quit. I cannot work with a company that is so disconnected from it's employees... we are just numbers. I gave them 2 MONTHS notice to find the replacement, but now I am thinking that was too much... what do you say? Can I 'edit' my end date? Would this give them cause to say anything negative about me if they were called about my employment history?
Ann, do what is in your best interest and what causes the least amount of suffering for you. That could mean leaving sooner or sticking it out. I hope things improve for you wherever you end up!
just go bro ..ul feel alot better
I’ve at been at a company for 20 years ,I’ve been on every safety committee and I’m out spoken but respectful, i give just as much positive feedback as in things I think can be improved on, if I see a problem I try to follow it up with a possible solution, I have learn to operate 90% of equipment and have a perfect safety record and recently turned in my two weeks notice ,the issue I turned in my resignation for I have tried tirelessly to get resolved with the company, I made a detailed list of all the things that I liked about the company and things that I thought need improvement , I work very hard for my last two weeks for the past 20 years I’ve been team player and if you think that there’s no value in Knowing why somebody would walk away from a company after so long then your part of the problem my friend!
jaimewanda This entire video is about how important it is to get that kind feedback from dedicated employees like you before they leave. The problem you accuse me of being a part of is the very problem the video is about solving.
I don't do exit interviews. What, they gonna stop me from leaving?
I have an exit interview later with 3 managers and no HR. Your last point really hit for me. Why do they wanna bother me with an interview on my second to last day when they could be spending that time talking with eachother about how to improve going forward
I found this video because I was researching for my Senior Exit Interview because it’s like in 2 days from now and I’m panicking. But I didn’t even know that some businesses make people do exit interviews like I thought explaining why I should graduate is stupid but this is also really dumb. You should not have to justify leaving by giving feedback. Like how I shouldn’t be giving feedback to a school that has made me want to die every day of my life. I don’t even like summer but high school made me love it
All the tools and approaches to employee engagement I agree with. It is essential to listen, act and engage with your employees. As you say this focusses on the existing workforce in the present and can assist in reducing turnover and a disengaged team. However, exit interviews can bring to the surface serious issues that employees did not want to raise whilst employed i.e. sexual harassment, bullying and other toxic behaviours. Often this feedback may be spurious, but in my 17 years experience in HR within healthcare, hotels and retail it is very useful to be able to have this information. It can safeguard against legal challenges , allow opportunity to address toxic behaviour from individuals and groups. With respect I fail to see how this is then stupid exit interviews elicit positive change. Even if this is on the rare occasion.
Sam, thanks for the insightful comments. Your last sentence actually reinforces my argument. It is rare for exit interviews to reveal the kind of serious issues you describe. When we look at the ROI of time, effort, process, etc. those resources are far more fruitful when devoted to stay interviews which not only increase engagement, morale, performance, and more, but will also draw out the very issues you name in advance of them leading a good employee to leave.
My company sucks so much I have no qualms about burning that bridge. The turnover is insane, the job gruelling on the body and the management completely insufferable... The chance they'll still be operating in 5 years time is a coin toss and the chance of me returning is approximately 0%. They did not give one single fuck what I or any of their employees thought while I worked there and now they have the audacity to pretend they care now that I'm quitting? Please...
This was a long time ago when I worked in a certain "well known" theater. A certain (disliked) female manager loudly called to, Cosandra C. about taking her exit interview. Cosandra loudly laughed in her face from the hallyway, flipped the bird, and went into the locker room to change for her last shift. As I recall, the manager pursued and insisted she was required to take the exit interview. I believe she still declined as she knew her rights.
Great idea. But where’s the guarantee the interview team is going to be honest? On my verge of leaving the organisation, I need to be careful. Any comments will be appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks for the comment! The video makes the argument to NOT do exit interviews for this very reason.
I totally get the sentiment, and the advice, but it's also given with the belief that people will walk into these interviews without the wherewithal to tamper their ego and be professional with their answers. If you really can't collect yourself enough to act like an adult (and let's be honest, many adults can't) then maybe you shouldn't do it. But this video is aimed at the employer, not the employee.
But I say, play their game, go into the interview bright eyed, bushy tailed, and enthusiastic to entertain their machiavellian agenda to suss out your motivations. Be positive, happy, and pretend as they do that nothing is actually wrong. Don't glad hand, don't tell them where you're going, don't bad mouth the company, just give them the opposite of the reaction they are expecting and leave them wondering. Smile and pretend everything is perfect, because that's what they want to hear. Kill them with kindness, in other words.
Sure you may come across like Patrick Bateman if you overplay it, but at some point, they'll be sitting there wondering why they're seeking responses from a person who's leaving when they'd seem perfectly happy to stay, but they'll have no choice but to write down for their records that you demonstrated professional camaraderie, and a good attitude. If you really want to stick it to them, treat them the way they treat you, an asset to keep in your back pocket to whip out one day as a reference long after you've moved on. That's really the ultimate way to stick it to them. They used you. Use them back.
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I think it ultimately depends where you work. If you work for a large corporate company where all employees are essentially faceless then I agree, your words will be worthless and potentially harmful to you. As for 360 degree reviews, in theory good, in reality NO! These are my colleagues: 1. People who will only say what they think you may want to hear. This is nice and therapeutic but .... 2. The narcissist/sociopath, 50+% it would seem. Likely just getting their narcissistic supply at your expense. i.e. utilizing this as a good devaluing tool that will likely not be remotely related to who you are because they are not really seeing you at all. They have no interest in you. 3. People saying what they have heard 1 and 2 say. We live in a post truth world so 360 degree reviews are just added paperwork. Also, you are either honest with yourself or not. In both cases a 360 review does not help.
I appreciate your insights, but actually find exit interviews extremely helpful... in particular for employees that you would be happy to rehire in the future. It's a last chance to make them feel valuable/important/wanted. So if/when their new job isn't everything they had hoped it would be, they might just remember that exit interview and the things you shared with them.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment. I completely agree: Having a conversation with someone in the organization who expresses appreciation for their contributions and leaves the door open for a return is terrific. I don’t think a formal exit interview process is needed for this to happen, though if that’s how they’re being used where you work, then great.
My disdain for exit interviews is as a process to ask for employee input about concerns or necessary changes. In this way, they are usually (but not always) a waste of time. We should be asking such questions much much earlier in the employee experience.
I feel like this guy was a theatre kid
Lol, this guy says don't do exit interviews because an employee on their way out won't be honest... but somehow employees that are relying on the company for their healthcare and wages will be more honest? I've seen plenty of attempts to "solicit feedback" from employees that backfired. I would NEVER be honest in a company survey, "stay interview", town hall, or anything else. The trust isn't there, and shouldn't be there with any employer.
What if your boss doesn’t care ? That’s what I witness at work.
The company I work for does all the things you ask but yet they don't listen to any of the advice gathered from these methods.Exit interview suggestions would be good. I am leaving my company and I need tips and suggestions.
Great idea! 👍
OK Thank you
Great advice!
Glad it was helpful!