Part of your settling problem with oil washes IS the use of the gloss varnish. If you use a satin or matte varnish (or no varnish) there is enough tooth to the surface to hold more pigment (I also think you might have too much wash on the brush when applying if its running down). The difference with the matte/satin varnish with oil washes is that the oils will stain/filter the colors underneath more, and you will get wider gradients between the recesses and the high points of the model - you may or may not want these additional effects. GL.
1:24:24 yeah natural ability, aptitude and talent exists, but it also requires focus, practice and motivation for someone to become the top 1% or the best in the world. Talent is innate and this is why we have that specific word for it. The thing with painting competitions is you need to be more than just good at painting. It's not like a football game where the better of the two teams should win - you need to have a great idea, a good model, a good base, technical ability, have a story in mind and be good/great at painting - it's then up to the judges to pick up on whether you conveyed all this well enough. You can boil it all down to point scoring, but IMO painting competitions are more like trying to craft a good book or a good film rather than just technical excellence.
It’s just a difference in philosophy, I paint board game minis because it looks better on the table, but I would never claim that they’re (as) good as those for miniature games. If I have painted a mini I am proud of the real reward-loop is seeing it on the table, painting a miniature that will never hit the table would be real demotivating for me. Painting a GW model is for sure more rewarding, and “easier” during the painting process, but having that Gloomhaven model painted up with some basing added for hours and hours on the table just feels good.
Question each 😅 Jon- will you finish the army to be able to compete against Vince, cos Vince doesn’t think you’ll finish it 😅, Scott- how’s your army going to take on Jays army?
1:11: Playing the background while I'm working, half listening, and legit thought Scott's laugh was the Salacious Crumb laugh thrown in as a sound effect for a second.
With regards to oil washes and airbrushing, and losing audience on that. Remember, there are some viewers that love this content. I don't watch videos on how to run the fastest with my shoe laces tied together.
One of the Perry twins lost a hand in a reenactment accident and completely relearned how to sculpt miniatures with his non-dominant hand. So, I'd definitely take non-dominant hand over blurry vision.
1:10:04 Pour half a new bottle into an empty bottle. Begin painting with the half-pot (technically could do quarter-pot). "Spill" pots and re-affix lids while painting. Refill as necessary. Use the good brushes AND save the paints. Totally choosing the pots issue.
@1:12-ish Jon that was sounding dangerously close to a self imposed challenge... "a year using synthetic brushes to master the tools I have available... " :)
One comment about DQ chicken strip basket. Keep in mind, not all DQs are equal. They all have different suppliers and do things somewhat differently when it comes to some things. (at least that is the case here in Ohio). For me, to be a good basket it needs to have the thick toast with butter. Some locations use regular bread. Some locations don't use butter. Also, the honey bbq basket is pretty good as well.
Conan was my Dads' favorite S&S style franchise! Wild franchise in general. 😊 I like a lot of what Uncle Atom says, and there is definitely merit to what he says about mechanics and rules being important to game design FOR SURE. But I feel like the creative elements are what have the long-lasting staying power and impact that many, MANY things in this postmodern era lack. Everything just feels like half-assed attempts at mimicking last year's or generations' creations, and therefore nostalgia.
Dairy Queen depends on where in the country you are. Here in Las Vegas the chicken fingers and fries really suck but when I go visit my grandfather in Kentucky its amazing
Question: Is there any painting skill would you like to forget, just to live the experience of learning it for the first time again? Bonus: Is there anything hobby-related you would like to forget, to live it for the first time again?
Question: do you guys use spray cans inside the office? or you always spray outside? (asking because Scotty says he has a bunch of spray primer on his studio).
I'm pretty sure TUP manifested canes after a few years of talking about it in my part of PA. I haven't tried it yet but kinda funny never heard of it then a few years later they are around the corner.
you could probably paint legions imperialism models on sprue and be totally fine as most of the infantry at least is attached by the underside of the base
Would you rather: Paint minis to the level you want them to be at (competition) but never be able to play a war game under ANY circumstance OR Never complete a mini to the level you want it to be at but still play war games.
Would you rather only have shitty, non-detailed sculpts that you can paint to a golden demon level or super detailed amazing sculpts that you can never get right or paint well?
Would you rather: A Never been able to buy high qualety miniatures again and can only aquite soft plastic board game miniatures with washed out details and heavy moldlines, or B you can only buy ebay rescue miniatures, with heavy paint coats, mold lines and sprue gates, wonky build with tonns of super glue, wrongly assambled with weapons upside down or in the wrong hands....basicly miniatures that got handled by 4 year olds.
Rescued models every day. If I only get one good model from chopping up and matching them I still get that one great model and if I’m honest I only paint one model from each squad anyway lol
I would rather have larger scale mech kits if it's going to be a kitbash situation. You have to take into consideration the engine sizes for movement. I'd rather have large scale display pieces than teeny tiny small lasers I have to glue onto 1" scout mechs...
What's disappointing for me with Battletech is the lack of pose variety. I'd like to at least have the limbs be separated so arms and legs can be posed for interesting basing.
A little late but if battletech came out with high quality multipart kits I'd lose my mind and spend so much money. Or if they had like Imperial Knight sized mechs and it was like lance vs lance combat
Lots of the painting discussion today emphasises to me how important colour selection is. It is perhaps easier to make content related to application of techniques, but I think the (more abstract?) process of selecting and positioning of colours on the model is something I would generally like to hear more discussion around. Personally, a self-complementary (?) colour scheme placed thoughtfully (like Jon's Thor-elf, with the cool blacks breaking up the other warm colour blocks) but painted mediocrely (not like Jon's Thor-elf...!) looks waaay better than am immaculately applied poor colour scheme, positioned badly.
100% disagree on the innate talent thing. I was the drawer in school. But that's because I drew a lot with my father as a child. And now I really suck at drawing. And that's because I haven't practised in a long time.
I don't believe in talent much. Michael Phelps, William sisters, Tiger Woods... we can mention tons. People that started REALLY early. You may call them talented, but we can't test if they are talented or not, because they practiced literal THOUSANDS of hours. DOZES OF THOUSANDS of hours probably. Talent, for me, is you picking a brush, for the first time, when you're 80yo, not having ever ever heard of anything art-related (not even knowing by them what a brush was) and literally putting down Sistine Chapel. As your first piece. I don't believe in this thing. I believe in work.
Some of this take is absurd. Practice and work beats talent and laziness almost every time, but you make talent sound worthless as a starting point. Talent for something isn't walking up and mastering a skill on your first attempt. It is a lot of intangible aspects that give one person a head start over another in a skill given the same starting point and experience. For instance, let's look to the music world. There is a natural skill that very few people have called perfect pitch. It allows an individual to hear a song and basically know the notes played by ear. It is an innate ability that if a person has It and decides to play an instrument makes it a lot easier to learn songs they hear on the radio. The practiced version on this, relative pitch, takes years to hone for most musicians and is more akin to hearing a note and knowing between what ranges it falls. Neither of these skills help you with coordinating your hands, or agility with the hand on your fret board if you play guitar, but they are both supremely helpful to a musician and one you are born with. For painters, some people just have a feel for light placement and catch on to NMM easily while others struggle. Some have a built in color theory when others need to actually learn it. Some people are color blind and might struggle even harder. Talent isn't nothing, it just isn't everything.
@ashgrey8678 I hear you and even though what you said is pretty reasonable, I'm pretty sure there's almost to no science to back it up. I think the word here is "innate". Which for me means: "having never ever practiced it before". Painting, sports, music or any of those are macro skills built of many different micro skills. Like you said, distinguishing tones and harmony is a different skill than playing your instrument with your fingers. The brain of an infant is built inside the womb and it erases most of the dear memories with it's parents in the early years or life (because learning to move and chew and crawl are more important than those memories). It sounds unlilely that the brain would be born with a very complex macro skill out of the womb, and decided to save this skill throughout years and years and years of growing up, without even knowing it will be used someday.
Would you rather: A Have every bottle of your paint collection be of a different manufacturer, cheap and expencive mixed at random or B are limited to only use cheap dollar store paints
Think Scott is applying his own anecdotal evidence to support his nature vs nuture. I’m definitely agreeing with Jon here. As an example I come from a home with zero artistic talent, a mother addicted to drugs and no support in any creative endeavor. I was always the “drawer” in class as Jon put it, and although I didn’t start out as a good miniature painter, my natural inclination and creative brain definitely helped me reach my current level. I believe the current science also supports that our brains have natural pathways focused on various skills. Some retain information really well, others maths and so forth.
Would you rather every glue up you get an instruction wrong and glue something on backwards, or, every time you use plastic cement, you leave a deep fingerprint on the model?
Ninjon, your videos on oil painting actually got me to give it a try! Also, I love using the airbrush so ignore the haters.
10:50: Scott: "Miniatures are small." For insights such as this TUP has rightly earned its place as the purveyor of true wisdom.
Thank you, thank you
I'm a believer that anyone can do anything if they try hard enough, within their physical abilities of course
Part of your settling problem with oil washes IS the use of the gloss varnish. If you use a satin or matte varnish (or no varnish) there is enough tooth to the surface to hold more pigment (I also think you might have too much wash on the brush when applying if its running down). The difference with the matte/satin varnish with oil washes is that the oils will stain/filter the colors underneath more, and you will get wider gradients between the recesses and the high points of the model - you may or may not want these additional effects. GL.
1:24:24 yeah natural ability, aptitude and talent exists, but it also requires focus, practice and motivation for someone to become the top 1% or the best in the world. Talent is innate and this is why we have that specific word for it. The thing with painting competitions is you need to be more than just good at painting. It's not like a football game where the better of the two teams should win - you need to have a great idea, a good model, a good base, technical ability, have a story in mind and be good/great at painting - it's then up to the judges to pick up on whether you conveyed all this well enough. You can boil it all down to point scoring, but IMO painting competitions are more like trying to craft a good book or a good film rather than just technical excellence.
It’s just a difference in philosophy, I paint board game minis because it looks better on the table, but I would never claim that they’re (as) good as those for miniature games. If I have painted a mini I am proud of the real reward-loop is seeing it on the table, painting a miniature that will never hit the table would be real demotivating for me.
Painting a GW model is for sure more rewarding, and “easier” during the painting process, but having that Gloomhaven model painted up with some basing added for hours and hours on the table just feels good.
Question each 😅 Jon- will you finish the army to be able to compete against Vince, cos Vince doesn’t think you’ll finish it 😅, Scott- how’s your army going to take on Jays army?
1:11: Playing the background while I'm working, half listening, and legit thought Scott's laugh was the Salacious Crumb laugh thrown in as a sound effect for a second.
With regards to oil washes and airbrushing, and losing audience on that. Remember, there are some viewers that love this content.
I don't watch videos on how to run the fastest with my shoe laces tied together.
One of the Perry twins lost a hand in a reenactment accident and completely relearned how to sculpt miniatures with his non-dominant hand. So, I'd definitely take non-dominant hand over blurry vision.
1:10:04 Pour half a new bottle into an empty bottle. Begin painting with the half-pot (technically could do quarter-pot). "Spill" pots and re-affix lids while painting. Refill as necessary. Use the good brushes AND save the paints. Totally choosing the pots issue.
@1:12-ish Jon that was sounding dangerously close to a self imposed challenge... "a year using synthetic brushes to master the tools I have available... " :)
The Conan intro and yelling weiners in the intro... Best intro ever
One comment about DQ chicken strip basket.
Keep in mind, not all DQs are equal. They all have different suppliers and do things somewhat differently when it comes to some things. (at least that is the case here in Ohio).
For me, to be a good basket it needs to have the thick toast with butter. Some locations use regular bread. Some locations don't use butter.
Also, the honey bbq basket is pretty good as well.
Always a blast and a pleasure to listen to... Thanks for my morning mojo boisssss! ❤
Conan was my Dads' favorite S&S style franchise! Wild franchise in general. 😊
I like a lot of what Uncle Atom says, and there is definitely merit to what he says about mechanics and rules being important to game design FOR SURE. But I feel like the creative elements are what have the long-lasting staying power and impact that many, MANY things in this postmodern era lack. Everything just feels like half-assed attempts at mimicking last year's or generations' creations, and therefore nostalgia.
Love how the short term convenience wins out over long term health risks potentially coming from the paint water chugging choice.
Dairy Queen depends on where in the country you are.
Here in Las Vegas the chicken fingers and fries really suck but when I go visit my grandfather in Kentucky its amazing
Would you rather:
Own every model GW ever made, past present future and never be able to get rid of any of them OR Never be able to own a GW model.
This one's amazing 😆😆😆😆
Would rather: never eat tendies ever again OR only drunk mini paint every mini for the remainder of your mini painting life
I am proudly one of the people who tried Raising Canes because of this podcast. Now it is a family favorite.
Start the 3am commute with TUP yes please!!
Question: Is there any painting skill would you like to forget, just to live the experience of learning it for the first time again? Bonus: Is there anything hobby-related you would like to forget, to live it for the first time again?
Ok Jon get to be the gremlin standing behind Goobs or Vince while he is trying to paint. Maybe Scott gets to be a gremlin too….
Say something funny… “weeners“… mission accomplished Scott, RTB
Vader and the stormtroopers are gonna look sick en masse and that good elf is absolutely gorgeous.
Thank God, I needed this.
As a community we need to speak more on the intricacies of tendies
I'm about to start, my 1st army. Who would you recommend? I like the look or world eaters.
Would you rather paint only with brushes size 8 or larger, or only paint 15mm scale or smaller?
You have to give up for life. Chicken tendies or diet soda?
Question: do you guys use spray cans inside the office? or you always spray outside? (asking because Scotty says he has a bunch of spray primer on his studio).
I'm pretty sure TUP manifested canes after a few years of talking about it in my part of PA. I haven't tried it yet but kinda funny never heard of it then a few years later they are around the corner.
Weirdly as a kid I liked the flavour of paint water and ink, was always drinking the stuff :D
I've painted alot of Battletech minis for commission. I'd take them over Zombicide minis any day, but they still suck.
Jon, I'm left leg and eye dominate but right handed as well! But I never really had any skill with my left hand.
Dudes, on Backerkit, you can late pledge to The Damned, a ton of traitor guard proxies.
you could probably paint legions imperialism models on sprue and be totally fine as most of the infantry at least is attached by the underside of the base
Basil Poledouris is one of the greatest soundtrack composers of all time, and Conan the Barbarian is his magnum opus.
Jon is so based with his DQ order lol!
Would you rather:
Paint minis to the level you want them to be at (competition) but never be able to play a war game under ANY circumstance
OR
Never complete a mini to the level you want it to be at but still play war games.
Cool starwars miniatures, I've just got the clone Wars
Fun episode!
Would you rather only have shitty, non-detailed sculpts that you can paint to a golden demon level or super detailed amazing sculpts that you can never get right or paint well?
Would you rather: A Never been able to buy high qualety miniatures again and can only aquite soft plastic board game miniatures with washed out details and heavy moldlines, or B you can only buy ebay rescue miniatures, with heavy paint coats, mold lines and sprue gates, wonky build with tonns of super glue, wrongly assambled with weapons upside down or in the wrong hands....basicly miniatures that got handled by 4 year olds.
Rescued models every day. If I only get one good model from chopping up and matching them I still get that one great model and if I’m honest I only paint one model from each squad anyway lol
Scott, you should consider hitting up Reapercon as a vendor.
Somebody singing the song of my Battletech soul.
Nurgle Bless y'all in the Kindest of ways
Absolutely love Conan, rewatched it again recently 😎❤️
I would rather have larger scale mech kits if it's going to be a kitbash situation. You have to take into consideration the engine sizes for movement. I'd rather have large scale display pieces than teeny tiny small lasers I have to glue onto 1" scout mechs...
What's disappointing for me with Battletech is the lack of pose variety. I'd like to at least have the limbs be separated so arms and legs can be posed for interesting basing.
My GW starter brush is weirdly good.
A little late but if battletech came out with high quality multipart kits I'd lose my mind and spend so much money.
Or if they had like Imperial Knight sized mechs and it was like lance vs lance combat
Miniac Xmas storm troopers good theme
Would you rather have every tendie you ever bite into be cold and woody or every time you put clean socks on you step in cat barf?
You should think about renegade as a vendor
Do the challenge video WITH drunk mini painting
Lots of the painting discussion today emphasises to me how important colour selection is. It is perhaps easier to make content related to application of techniques, but I think the (more abstract?) process of selecting and positioning of colours on the model is something I would generally like to hear more discussion around. Personally, a self-complementary (?) colour scheme placed thoughtfully (like Jon's Thor-elf, with the cool blacks breaking up the other warm colour blocks) but painted mediocrely (not like Jon's Thor-elf...!) looks waaay better than am immaculately applied poor colour scheme, positioned badly.
I'm going to have bad dreams tonight 😢 snakes and spiders are better as models than real live ones😂 my friend has a snake I don't mind that one
That's if sable is available. I hears U.S. is cracking down on importing of sable hair brushes.
Drunk mini painting when again? please?
100% disagree on the innate talent thing.
I was the drawer in school. But that's because I drew a lot with my father as a child.
And now I really suck at drawing. And that's because I haven't practised in a long time.
Your version of suck is probably pretty good to most people.
Who's the newb that doesn't recognize a 40mm base when they're holding in their hand, huh Jon, huh??? /s
I don't believe in talent much. Michael Phelps, William sisters, Tiger Woods... we can mention tons. People that started REALLY early. You may call them talented, but we can't test if they are talented or not, because they practiced literal THOUSANDS of hours. DOZES OF THOUSANDS of hours probably. Talent, for me, is you picking a brush, for the first time, when you're 80yo, not having ever ever heard of anything art-related (not even knowing by them what a brush was) and literally putting down Sistine Chapel. As your first piece. I don't believe in this thing. I believe in work.
Some of this take is absurd. Practice and work beats talent and laziness almost every time, but you make talent sound worthless as a starting point. Talent for something isn't walking up and mastering a skill on your first attempt. It is a lot of intangible aspects that give one person a head start over another in a skill given the same starting point and experience.
For instance, let's look to the music world. There is a natural skill that very few people have called perfect pitch. It allows an individual to hear a song and basically know the notes played by ear. It is an innate ability that if a person has It and decides to play an instrument makes it a lot easier to learn songs they hear on the radio.
The practiced version on this, relative pitch, takes years to hone for most musicians and is more akin to hearing a note and knowing between what ranges it falls. Neither of these skills help you with coordinating your hands, or agility with the hand on your fret board if you play guitar, but they are both supremely helpful to a musician and one you are born with.
For painters, some people just have a feel for light placement and catch on to NMM easily while others struggle. Some have a built in color theory when others need to actually learn it. Some people are color blind and might struggle even harder. Talent isn't nothing, it just isn't everything.
@ashgrey8678 I hear you and even though what you said is pretty reasonable, I'm pretty sure there's almost to no science to back it up. I think the word here is "innate". Which for me means: "having never ever practiced it before". Painting, sports, music or any of those are macro skills built of many different micro skills. Like you said, distinguishing tones and harmony is a different skill than playing your instrument with your fingers. The brain of an infant is built inside the womb and it erases most of the dear memories with it's parents in the early years or life (because learning to move and chew and crawl are more important than those memories). It sounds unlilely that the brain would be born with a very complex macro skill out of the womb, and decided to save this skill throughout years and years and years of growing up, without even knowing it will be used someday.
The toxic stuff works the best. More toxic stuff please.
surely he’s darth vared
Would you rather: A Have every bottle of your paint collection be of a different manufacturer, cheap and expencive mixed at random or B are limited to only use cheap dollar store paints
just don't prime easy question
Big agreement on the Battletech comments. No way it should be languishing the way it is. The models are awful. Such potential wasted.
FIRST! ♥
Think Scott is applying his own anecdotal evidence to support his nature vs nuture. I’m definitely agreeing with Jon here. As an example I come from a home with zero artistic talent, a mother addicted to drugs and no support in any creative endeavor. I was always the “drawer” in class as Jon put it, and although I didn’t start out as a good miniature painter, my natural inclination and creative brain definitely helped me reach my current level. I believe the current science also supports that our brains have natural pathways focused on various skills. Some retain information really well, others maths and so forth.
It would be great if Battletech followed that direction but that game/model line already exists in Heavy Gear.
Wieners 🎉
Would you rather teach an entitled rich adult or a non medicated 6 year old with ADHD how to paint?
First?!
Would you rather every glue up you get an instruction wrong and glue something on backwards, or, every time you use plastic cement, you leave a deep fingerprint on the model?
LMAO I hope everyone knows my intro was from the episode where Jon says "and if you comments below you can tell us to say something funny!"