The framing and cinematography was top notch on this film! Most outstanding for me were for me the simple and so powerful sound effects. It's amazing to see how quiet the movie is, and still brings so much emotions.
I really like the idea that he genuinely was in love with chani and fully intended to push the fremen to free themselves, but was pushed into this path to try to take the pass of lesser evil.
Agreed, I think that this is the point many reviewers are missing. Evening calling him Vader. Despite what the “authors” intentions were in the book, his movie depiction makes the decision more complex. His choice is watch your people and the woman you love be eradicated, which is the entire life of his new found family, or eradicate the people that wants to cause you harm. It really is a tough choice
@@botistelockhart5078he had a hard hand really seen it from the beginning everyone playing on him nd he knows he human sheesh tough shoes for pual but his end goal is to free everyone
@@botistelockhart5078 LOL. sorry bro, but the movie is a dumbed down version of the story. the idea that you're trying to frame it as "more complex" is major cope. stop being a villenueve fanboy it's so gross.
@@notmyproblem88 The “Cope” was the changes they made in making Chani a stark full blown feminist. Did you even read the book?! Some changes I like but most I didn’t, especially with the character of Chani. To each his own opinion.
I always liked the last line of the first book when Jessica tells Chani that history will call them wives. It was clear that Paul was setting up Irulan and using her to gain power.
The incest and the adultery is not allowed...but the war sey we just have no others way's to reproduce ourselves...such a lie,,traitors of ladies traitors of mothers,,the war itself puts us down in misery 2:59
I think she’ll come back towards the end but only after Paul relinquishes control and blindly ‘walks into the desert’. A lot of Paul’s visions will continue to have been misdirections. Especially anything around Paul, Chani and some twins.
@@relint12 That wouldn't make a lot of sense. he only goes into the desert because A) he's blind and B) he can't use his prescience to see due to grief over Chani's death. How would the twins be born?
He sees a lot of different universes. This was said before he killed the Baron iirc, and the book says when he kills the Baron their was a bad timeline
@@stephengrant4841 I expect the timeline to be shuffled quite a bit with Chani leaving. Paul won’t be able to find her until he’s blinded and gets that huge burst of foresight, turns over the keys to the empire and walks directly to Chani. As the man she fell in love with not the Emporer. In this timeline the twins may or may not have already been born shortly after Paul and Chani split.
Im so excited to see the next part. Im already hooked in some Dune lore videos on TH-cam. A couple years ago watching Dune 1 was quite problematic because I was struggling with following the plot because of the freaking names. This time I was prepared and understood the entire story immediately
I think it definitely helps to read the books, I knew everything going on in Dune Part 1 but my buddy who went with me said he had no idea what was going on. I thought it seemed straightforward, but I’ve just taken it all for granted because I’ve read the books; but I can see it being more vague for someone not well-versed in the lore.
@@arvelcrynyd6311 I hadn't read the books nor really knew anything about the Dune universe but I wasn't confused in the slightest while watching the first film a year or two ago. So I suppose it varies from person to person
Paul does not fear the "Golden Path" due to the billions of deaths, as they will already happen with the Jihad that he started to solidify his position as new Emperor. Infact, Paul didn't start the "Golden Path" at all. The "Golden Path" is a vision of the future with the intention to save humanity as a whole and it would take millennia to accomplish and it would require from Paul to give up his humanity completely to make it happen. This is what he couldn't bring himself to do he was not ready to become a god like immortal entity so that he could actually create this path for humanity. So in the end it was his son Leto II. who actually did it by becoming the God Emperor.
@@KermitOfWar Yes. He does that to gain near Immortality and shedding his "humanity" as the Golden Path had to be followed over such a long time no one with a short lifetime like a human could ever fully understand and actually go trough with it. And Paul, simply didn't want to "give up" his humanity.
@@KermitOfWar We see in the books though, that they have complete control over their body chemistry with Alia stopping her aging and even Leto II manipulating the little Maker to fuse with it. It would've been possible for Paul to make himself immortal without the worm. However, fusing with the worm gives Leto II an endless supply of spice internally, so he is constantly tapped into SpiceVision in which he is always seeing the future all the time (and the superhuman strength, too).
I think what Villeneuve is doing is brilliant. He is staying true to the source material, while also giving us book readers a twist that makes sense. He is showing us things that the book merely glanced over; and, if people really want to know more, all they have to do is read the books. These movies are expanding on the books. If the first 15-20 minutes of Part 3 is a Holy War in space and on different planets spanning 10 years-15 years, the movies can stay in line with the books timeline. An opening montage would totally work. It can also show Chani coming back to Paul, and the Bene Gesserit influencing Irulan to sabotage Paul and Chani relationship. When Messiah is released and successful, I wouldn't mind Villeneuve stepping down as director; but, staying on as producer, and hand picking the next Director. Maybe Jonathan Nolan? He did a killer job with Westworld Season One. An unknown Director, that Villeneuve trusts, could also be an awesome fit. I also want to See Jason Mamoa again as Duncan Idaho.
Does Duncan Idaho dies and never returns in the books ? I was kind of skeptical how how real was Jason Mamoas death in the movie especially when the camera showed how peaceful his face looked almost as if he was not completely dead.
@@cgoins1993 I don’t think they’ll do that, because the only book that details events between Dune and Messiah is Paul of Dune, written by Brian Herbert after his father’s death, and most fans of Frank Herbert’s Dune books do not consider Brian’s books to be canonical. I mean, I guess most Dune fans just don’t consider them at all. I am going to give them a fair shot, when I eventually finish Chapterhouse lol. But it would be kind of boring and not really fit the tone of the Dune franchise. Frank Herbert didn’t really care to expand that much on 12 years of holy war. It’s enough to show the impact it has on Fremen culture.
@@adamjohnson6016 lol you don’t have to stay _THAT_ faithful to the book 😅😅 imagine if the Harkonnen attack was “faithful to the book” AKA nonexistent on screen The best part about movie adaptations is being able to bring grandeous action sequences to life with the best tech available
I would like to see the Dune prequel trilogy that outlines the human-machine war, The Butlerian Jihad, The Machine Crusade, and the Battle of Corrin. I listened to those audiobooks when I was commuting to and from work and really enjoyed them. There are plenty of battles and political intrigue/scheming would be a perfect fit.
Those aren't canon. If you want the real Butlerian Jihad that was FH-approved, read the Dune Encyclopedia by Dr. Willis McNelly. That's the grown-up version that doesn't rely on cartoonish Terminator ripoffs.
@@Shan_Dalamani He approved it because he found it amusing. To me that's the same level of invented by others than the books witten by his son. And of course he couldn't approve those, because guess what, Frank wasn't alive to approve it. But sure some people rather stick to one thing and call it the absolute truth and all the rest is for and by plebs.
@@ThaGamingMisfit He wouldn't have approved of the nuDune BS because it was just made-up BS that was a blatant ripoff of the Terminator movies. It had NOTHING to do with the established canon that FH had already written. FH and Dr. McNelly had plans to collaborate on a Butlerian Jihad novel. Sadly FH died before they could do that. It would have been fantastic.
@@Shan_Dalamani That is interesting when you say McNelly's Encyclopaedia was canon, when Mr. McNelly says it was not, especially when he was allowed to see Frank Herbert's notes. Also, Frank Herbert indicated he endorsed the attempt, not all the so called facts stated. His exact quote was " scholarly bypaths and amusing sidelights. Some of the contributions are sure to arouse controversy, based as they are on questionable sources." end quote. All of the Prequels and Sequels were based on the aforementioned notes. Yes, there may have been quite a bit of license going on, because notes are just that, notes or outlines and details needed to be fleshed out.
First off, I just wanna say kudos to you for giving shoutouts to your editors. It may seem like a small thing, but editors matter, the people working behind the scenes matter and they deserve to have credit and they deserve the chance to gain a reputation and maybe move on to larger better paying projects. So often everyone from big companies to small businesses think that if they give their employees recognition and fair pay that they'll get 'big heads' and demand more (or just demand to be paid in line with the value of their work.) I get that especialy for a small channel (wait ... 1.58 million subs... did not relaize how big this channel was) it can be hard to pay people as much as you might want to. I have no idea what your pay structure is but at least giving people credit for their work is fantastic from an ethical point of view. Secondly, thanks for this video. I've been watching a few (actually this is the second one) about the future plot of Dune books. I've thought of reading them, but a friend of mine who's read them mentioned to me that, "Yeah they're great, but the author was definitely homophobic. There's some queer stuff in it, but it's all bad." So I don't think I really want to put the effort into reading them. (Also, while I pay be tempted to end my books on a sour note when I write them, fuck if I wanna read that!) I do think that the mythos and what not of Dune seems really interesting and definitely subversive. But I also wouldn't be surprised if moving on any future adaptations have to change more and more of the plot to make it coherent. When you have casted actors that the audience loves, it can be much less motivating to show up to the next movie. I wondered if Dune Messiah might need to be two movies but I just looked up the word count, it's less than half the size of the first book so I guess they could probably make that into one movie. Ultimately these are being made by WB so they'll probably milk the franchise until it's dead.
Just seen it again. Absolute masterpiece. Can’t wait for part 3. Also it’s crazy how Zendaya has similar roles and is the key to saving Spidey in the end, and now Paul with her Love. She is The One lol
When I saw Zendaya in part 1, I already have low expectarion of her. As an actress, Im not really a fan, but she could definitely work well as a model 😅😅
Or visions like it's suggested in this video. And since Paul's prescience is so strong thanks to the water of life, his visions of adult Alia can be extremely vivid and they can have whole conversations
The sandworm poison also speeds up her development in the books, so they could still stick to the 12 year time jump and just say she aged really quickly
Will be interesting to see how the ghola 'Hayt' is depicted as a Zensunni mentat/philosopher and whether he will have metallic eyes as well. In the book, this version of the character was depicted as quite mild mannered in comparison, as he was not trained as a warrior.
Me not knowing anything about Dune “man these movies are amazing. I cannot wait for the next one!” Me after reading up on the lore “uhhh… think im good actually…”
I would urge you to read at least "Dune." Myself, I quit after "God Emperor of Dune" (4th in the series), as I liked each sequel less than the preceding. Many are enthralled with the entire series.
its wild, 3000 years of the mad-lad mutant worm dictatorship involving clones, robots, magic nuns and space assassins all commiting fuckery until humanity finally learns that computers arent scary and its ok to use them for space travel.
Unfortunately :(( the twins are 🐐’d but no way in hell can they find actors who look the part to perform the part properly. Even if they make them a bit older, unless they’re high school looking. That’s probably why they took that route with Alia as well. Maybe they could’ve done some telepathy shit but then the movie would have been 3+ hours
Yeah, i had always imagined an anime series of Leto II as emperor and each episode or season would tell of the past or the future as he saw it and could recount all of the novels at literally any pace because as he saw it, it would basically be the same thing. There's even a scene in one of the later books where a main character randomly stumbles across a cache of spice left there just because he knew she would find it. He would be the perfect narrator.
They definitely need more Voice in Dune 3. Even the fighters learned the voice in the original film adaptation, and watching Paul implode Feyd Rautha’s chest in the climax of Dune is a very satisfying cinematic moment. I was disappointed by the end of the fight in Dune part 2.
So none of those things are in the book. The Voice isn’t magic. It’s like sci-fi psychology. Paul can’t cave in the ground with it. And the whole voice weapons aren’t in the book.
Chani doesn't 'leave' Paul, she goes south and knows that Paul marries Irulan as a political convenience, not a love match, Chani will always have his heart and will have his children, Irulan gets nothing physical/emotional. I'm so pleased that you are pointing out the differences so I don't have to rant on, thank you! The film(s) are really well made, the books are infinitely better. I think Alia of the Knife could have been included, she killed Baron Harkonnen in the book, in the film she's still in utero!!!! It's a pity that the Guild Navigators were completely omitted too!
As mentioned, there is so much material in the Dune Universe. The six primary books, and also the Brian Herbert prequels and sequels (a love\hate issue for the book readers), that would all be great movie material. Momentum seems to be building here. There is an opportunity to make this a new Sci Fi film franchise. That kind of opportunity is very rare. It would be an enormous waste by the studio for long-term success and profit to stop after 3 movies - just a third of the primary Frank Herbert books.
It wasn't just the war that killed 60 billion people. A lot of the deaths are due to Paul's control over the Spacing Guild through his control of Spice. The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on interstellar travel because they're the only ones who can safely navigate folded space. And they do it with Navigators who have been mutated by the Spice, and these Navigators need Spice to survive. So by controlling the Spice, Paul can force the Spacing Guild to cut off entire worlds from trade, starving them out. This is a big part in how he's able to fight against the Great Houses, their armies can't do anything without the Spacing Guild to transport them to different planets. They'll probably have to make a longer time jump. In the book, Alia is around 16. If they plan on having Anya Taylor-Joy play Alia, she's not going to be 16. So I think either Dune Messiah movie will start like 20 - 22 years after Dune part 2 or they'll put a time jump in Dune Messiah where it starts 12 years after part 2 and then have a time jump to 8 or 10 years later.
I wonder if they will cut the book into 2 also ? With the first part being the war against great houses with a small time jump and the second part with a big time jump and the rest of the story
I like the idea presented in this video where there won't be a large time jump and Paul would be speaking with his grown sister (played by Anya Taylor-Joy) through visions and she will constantly remind him when he's straying from the path they have chosen for him. The movie needs to show the genocidal holy war. The different factions can plot against Paul without a need for a large time jump
Take elements of Children, like Jessica returning half way through the film to plot against Alia and to try to save Paul. That give her a bigger character arc, going from Dukes concubine and protective mother to grieving survivalist refugee to scheming manipulating antagonist, to realizing her daughters “abomination” and the cost of their plotting on humanity in the form of Pauls Holy War. She can then have a redemption arc where she tries to save paul and expose Alia, becoming the protective mother once again. This way Fergeson can be in the movie and also have a satisfying charcter arc
I don’t think so. If they stretched the first book into two movies then Messiah can certainly be one, as it’s around half the length of the first Dune book. The Sci-Fi channel did that, but that’s a different format, it was a 3 part miniseries in which the first episode was Messiah and the other two episodes were Children of Dune (despite the miniseries just being titled “Children of Dune”). Basically, I think you only need one 2.5-3 hour movie for Messiah, as it’s the shortest book in the series. This way they can actually title the film “Dune: Messiah” instead of just blending it in with Children, like Sci-Fi Channel did. If they do Messiah I really hope they end up doing up to at least Children though, Messiah ends on somewhat of a downer, at the very least it’s not much of a conclusion.
Please don’t wait too long. My father (a MASSIVE fan of the franchise) died of cancer between the initial intended release date of part 1 and the actual release date. Watching it with him was something I was desperate to do. :( Take the time you need to make a fantastic product. But we are entrusting you with so much more than just a movie. This is a legacy. And so far you haven’t let us down.
Based on the movie version of things, Paul starts the holy war or the Fremen are wiped out...if Chani comes to understand that maybe it's better than the alternative. It's all up for grabs with the changes made lol
Alia appearing that mature after only 12 years is possible. In the book she exhibits accelerated growth/development as a result of her exposure to the Maker's Water in the womb.
Wow good similes, and points on sw and dune…I hope they delve deeper into Paul and Chani’s relationship in the next film…you have some great ideas, that sound like it could make for a great film…I never read the books, but both dune1 and 2, were fantastic. Can’t wait.
Dune is so darn hard to adapt to film since so much of the conflict is internal/philosophical or behind the scenes as plots within plots, so there a lot of side characters with their own agendas & motivations as well as thousands of years of history. It's a lot to get on screen in a film.
Well, Dune has been ripped off by just about everything since the book came out. Sounds like the creator if Attack on titan, like many creators, ripped off Dune after they read it.
He is not the hero - Paul is a false prophet - he is encouraged by everyone around him to exploit the religious beliefs of the Fremen instilled in them centuries ago by the Bene Gesserit to further his own goal - Revenge for his fathers murder. He's not the Kwisatz Haderach, he's just someone who can easily be slotted into that role. After he drinks the water of life you can see him change and pursue his own goals relentlessly.
In dune saga there's no heros, just a man who acts in heroic deads as long as it is destined for him, then he or they would become evil at a deferet time... that goes for everything lerally, even the worms themselves. The story emphasizes the fixed destiny aspect alot.
I think the story goes too hard on his hero journey. Not enough signs of the problem with his ascension. Too many people watching this film like it's LOTR and it isn't
Dude from desert planet, who is the chosen one, has dreams of his wife dying in childbirth, she has twins, dies, and the kids have magical powers while one brings order to the universe... sounds familiar.
There are soooo many ripoffs. General ideas are one thing, how original can you be when it comes to imperial space hero/villain stories? But it’s the super specific shit that bugs people even the name Skywalker. In Star Wars, sky walkers were originally navigators who were force sensitive people that could traverse the dangers of the unknown regions by use of their force powers to see slightly into the immediate future. Like wtf seriously George Lucas lol?? ****SPOILER BELOW for books 2-4**** The protagonist who is supposed to be the good guy falls to evil, he has a lover that he hides from the galaxy, they have twins, mother dies in birth, sexual tension between the twins, the male twin goes on to be the hero, the father helps the son to defeat the emperor (or empress) and dies in the process, son restores the galaxy, Like dude that is the most fuckinf specific you can get lol can’t believe it 😂😂 And that’s just _some_ of the VERY specific stuff. There’s loads and loads of almost direct rip offs Han Solo is gurneey, spice smuggler, great fighter Tattooine desert planet Sand worm on tattooine Tusken raiders Rock melter bomb thing inspired lightsabers Oh there’s a religious cult like people who use mind powers to control you using their voice? YA DONT SAY?? lol there’s so much more shit, too, there’s videos on this if you want to search em up Frank Herbert even put a roast of Star Wars into one of the later books. I forget what it was exactly, but he called something “three P O” in a sentence that called it basically pirated garbage
@@DropBear_42 You realize that Dune predates Star Wars by over 10 years, right? And there was no "sexual tension" between Leto and Ghanima because they were NINE YEARS OLD? The miniseries cast older actors, since there's no way that child actors could ever handle material like that, and modern audiences would never accept child Ghanima marrying adult Farad'n to breed future generations of Atreides for Leto's new breeding program.
@@Noqtis 1. My name is not "buddy." 2. No, they don't, for the reasons I stated. If you want to argue with me, read the entire 6-volume series that Frank Herbert wrote. Recall that Herbert found so many similarities in the Star Wars movies that he considered suing George Lucas for plagiarism. And then come back and argue with me.
Every video I’ve seen so far has talked about Paul’s “betrayal” to Chani. Now I have never read the books but the idea I got from the film was Paul was doing that to protect her. He has seen images of her dying and I was wondering if he followed the path of marrying irulan to prevent Chani’s death. Many times during the end of the movie Paul made eye contact with Chani almost evidence he still cares for her. The more obvious evidence is when he says he will love her until his last breath.
These lines from Paul to Chani in the book and missing from the movie, really changes the audiences perception of the ending. Paul: "I swear to you now ... that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire." Jessica adds: "Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives."
For all those who don't like to read books and are confused about the movies of dune. There are audio books that a person can listen to that go into detail and explain the world and universe of dune and all the houses and how everything fits together.
Have a feeling they will split the next movie into two parts, and add even more things that were not in the books. BTW: what did Chani think would happen after they defeated the Harkonnen? No one will ever come back to recolonize Dune? Paul is taking care of the next problem before it happens.
Chani is not going to lead a faction against Paul. That would be a huge and unecessary change. She is going to help redeem Paul by having his children.
@t2nexx561 according to books( major spoilers if you haven't read them) she is just a wife in name and nothing else and they didn't have a romantic relationship.
@user-jr9bu7em8s Irulan conspired against Paul for the BG. But felt remorse and became his biggest advocate and advocate for the children after Chani died. Basically, it's a second mother, but yes, they weren't romantic. It was unrequited love.
Bring back this cast and I'm in. In a move with a million closeups, Zendaya does so much with just expression. Paul first said I'll be with you as long as I breathe, later says I'll love you as long as I breathe.
Thank you for acknowledging the changes. Big fan of the book, so it was notable when they completely changed the ending. Great point with the blue scarf, never even thought about it. I think chani will come back to Paul. There is a reference in the end of the book about powerful women. Alia shouldn’t be a problem in the time jump. Remember because of the water of life, she grows faster than her actual chronicle age. 1984 dune mentioned this quickly, it’s talked about in the books. So even though she was 2-3 chronically, she looked like a 7-8 year old. Same can be true with Anya playing this character. With the time jump she can be anywhere from 12-14 years old, but look like a fully grown adult.
Haven’t read the books, but from what little I’ve seen in some of the “Lore Videos”, I wonder how much Acid Frank Herbert took while writing the series? A Worm person thing?? I love the movies, and they make sense all on their own (if you have an imagination).
In the book Alia kills Baron Harkonnen which drove her mad as an adult. This is an important plot thread that I’m wondering if that will even be included now
I have been saying all week that I think Villeneuve is making a composite character out of Chani and Korba. The biggest key to me is that in Part 2, Chani refers to herself as one of the Fedaykin. In the book, NONE of the Fedaykin were female. Also, Korba was completely absent from the movie, whereas he was prominent enough in the book to have been included in both the 1984 film AND the 2000 miniseries . . . and of course, he had a major part to play in the Dune Messiah portion of the Children of Dune miniseries. I believe that Chani will come back into Paul's trust, for better or for worse. For very specific reasons, Paul will not allow Irulan to have any children, and the twins have to be born. And as the host mentions here, Irulan does participate in the conspiracy against Paul in Dune Messiah, however, Paul forgives her - and he does so for even more very specific reasons having to do with her wanting to bear his heir, and what she does in her attempts to bring that to pass . . . and the inadvertent side effect of those attempts. The heartbreaking decision Paul makes at the end of the second book will carry more dramatic weight if it follows Chani fulfilling not only her role as outlined in the book, but Korba's role, as well.
You will be disappointed. We don't meet Leto II as the worm hybrid until God Emperor of Dune, the 4th book...we'd still have to get through an adaption of Children of Dune before that 3500 year time jump.
Nice over view. I do not think the change to Chani not following Paul is such a great change as it is illogical. Chani was willing to fight for Freman freedom a path that would most probably lead to a war with all the other houses any way? It seems she only is avoiding the inevitable.
I wish more people understood what Paul really became at the end of Dune part 2. He ultimately made the choice to use the Fremen out of his need for revenge over all else. He is closer to a space H!tler than a savior for their people
What is the arguably the most significant and probably darkest book is God-Emperor,which is more cerebral but it also contains dark themes and Leto II’s astonishing physical appearance that’s holds the essence of the story…it would require a lot of thought and imagination to create the flim …
Chani says go south, Paul says no. Again Chani says go south. Paul says no, everything will go to sh*t if i do. Paul eventually goes south and then the holy war begins. Love is blindness.
I just dont know how they are going to adapt dune messaiah to screen while making it even bigger than part 2. Are they going to show this holy war beginning to end or will it be a time jumps.
They all had nukes, but it was law that they couldn’t use them on people. Paul blowing up the mountain with them narrowly skirted the line of that law.
For me, Dennis is right on ending on Messiah, but leaving some lose ends for future itinerations of the story... the way I see it, the books after Messiah are too much complicated to be translated into Dennis type of film... it needs story rework using the source material but not over do it like in the books.
Yes I believe Chani was pregnant at the end of Dune 2 and she will try to hide the children from Paul otherwise they get taken down his path (similar to Luke finding out his father is Vader and being tempted to the dark side). I don't think Chani will ever forgive Paul and hates what he has become that's why she will hide the kids and she will never trust him again. What's a real mystery is the relationship between Paul and Irulan. At the end of Dune 2 Paul tells the Emperor that Irulan will be safe and he will protect her. I think the relationship will not be as cold and hostile as it is in the book. I think Irulan will be more a spiritual guide that he trusts but no romance. So there's plenty there to try and figure out because only Denis knows the full plans for that relationship with Paul and Irulan. She may become the Obi Wan or a similar style of guide. Can't wait to find out!
If they make “Messiah” I really hope they make films up to “Children of Dune”, while “Messiah” ends *somewhat* hopeful it’s also a bummer in a lot of ways. “Children” could be a good stopping point for the films though, as “God Emperor” is really weird and may be the most difficult to adapt to screen. “Messiah” can be done in one film, as it’s the shortest book in the series. Then we could close out the series with another two-parter in “Children”, nice and symmetrical.
I didn’t know MAX was going to do a prequel series based on Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson’s prequel books! Are we going to eventually get to see the Machine Crusade and all that rich history on the small screen? I just got way too excited lol
Based on Chani stronger character, reconciliation does not seem likely, but I think she was pregnant and will lose the child in the holy war and will make her fall in line due to the suffering. I think he will have the other two children with the princess, which will be the major changes from the book. Any rational woman would not forget but forgive, this is more grounded since there is a marriage in the way, also lack that statement from the book but i could be wrong.
There many reasons why she would not follow Paul but i don’t think she would lead a faction against him but more of a protest. She a non believer, she has understanding of cults, Paul married to another woman, a betrayal from paul, and at the end of part 2 he did not say he would not have children with the princess like the book. This is not sister wives 😂
My biggest gripe with the Part Two is the time span between Paul escaping into the desert and his confrontation with the Emperor. In the books Alia was about four during the showdown with the Emperor meaning Paul had about 5 years to learn the Fremen ways, bond with them, fall in love and nourish his relation with Chani, accelerate the terraformation of Dune (which is also a huge part of why the Fremen were so devoted to him) and then rally the people, annoy the Harkonnen and scare the crap out of the rest of the universe enough to incite an open war with the empire. In Part Two he did all of this in less then 9 months. Jessica was "a few weeks" into the pregnancy before the Treason and was still pregnant during the finale...
My guy, you're comparing a novel to a two hour and a half movie. They are two different things. The only true way to get a tit for tat novel to movie adaptation is through making a TV show with multiple seasons and episodes. DV is doing a fantastic job with how much leeway he's being given.
There is a fan theory that Jessica slowed her pregnancy down until Paul succeeded if you want to say it takes longer than a few months. But Villeneuve said he liked having the events of part 1 still fresh in the memory which wouldn't be the case if years had past.
@@komplex6081 did you not notice DV made two movies? he had two full movies and he still completely failed to include the most signifcant parts of the story but still found time to include irrelevant parts.
Paul is never the villain Darth Vader was. Rather he is a victim of his own knowledge. He has to play the part of Emperor for a bit to make the golden path happen but he hates it It’s hard to believe the third movie will really make Channi his enemy. That would be d really warp the books. But she is the enemy of Imperial Court, Ireland and its intrigue. Her and Paul will reconcile but neither of these characters is meant to survive. The movies cast them as the main characters of the Dunverse but readers of the series know they are not. The story isn’t about a hero, it’s about the evolution of a society and the factions that make it up. It’s about the transformation of humanity, the golden path and an external threat that sadly the author didn’t survive to build out.
How is Paul supposed to have his children with Chani if Chani is leading a resistance against him? I think these theories go a bit too far. Alia is enough of an antagonist for the story without making up entirely new arcs for the characters. Also, the Bene Tleilax existing in these films were more than just teased because the Baron's mentat, who died when Leto bit the poison tooth, was produced by them. That's where evil mentats come from.
I just watched the movie last night. The movie was overall really good, Especially the 3rd act. Considering how long this movie took i don't think we will get another with this cast. The time cuts were a bit bad and it felt like we didnt need the beginning of the movie.
2:16 thank you doug, I hessitant to watch this video because I didn't want potential spoilers Edit: Ryan: I will not bring any mayor spoilers about the book. Also Ryan (7:40): "This is a mayor plotpoint of the next book" 🙃
Never read the books or seen the previous movies. I’m positive the visions Paul saw was Chani coming back to fight against him. That’s the deaths he could have avoided had he not took the highborn lady’s hand.
I think if they're set to do dune messiah, that it would probably be best to do it like they did with this past dune as a part 1 and 2. Just my opinion.
Messiah is the shortest book by quite a bit, I don’t really think it would be necessary to break it into two films. I think they can easily cover all of Messiah in a 2.5 - 3 hour film.
@@arvelcrynyd6311 I suppose. Just thinking of what the video was saying that they would have to do a time jump and immediately my thoughts were break it into 2.
The framing and cinematography was top notch on this film! Most outstanding for me were for me the simple and so powerful sound effects. It's amazing to see how quiet the movie is, and still brings so much emotions.
Felt the calling of lisan al-gaib
I really like the idea that he genuinely was in love with chani and fully intended to push the fremen to free themselves, but was pushed into this path to try to take the pass of lesser evil.
Agreed, I think that this is the point many reviewers are missing. Evening calling him Vader. Despite what the “authors” intentions were in the book, his movie depiction makes the decision more complex. His choice is watch your people and the woman you love be eradicated, which is the entire life of his new found family, or eradicate the people that wants to cause you harm. It really is a tough choice
@@botistelockhart5078he had a hard hand really seen it from the beginning everyone playing on him nd he knows he human sheesh tough shoes for pual but his end goal is to free everyone
He searched so many futures looking for the one that did not involve mass death.
@@botistelockhart5078 LOL. sorry bro, but the movie is a dumbed down version of the story. the idea that you're trying to frame it as "more complex" is major cope. stop being a villenueve fanboy it's so gross.
@@notmyproblem88 The “Cope” was the changes they made in making Chani a stark full blown feminist. Did you even read the book?! Some changes I like but most I didn’t, especially with the character of Chani. To each his own opinion.
I always liked the last line of the first book when Jessica tells Chani that history will call them wives. It was clear that Paul was setting up Irulan and using her to gain power.
The incest and the adultery is not allowed...but the war sey we just have no others way's to reproduce ourselves...such a lie,,traitors of ladies traitors of mothers,,the war itself puts us down in misery 2:59
Alia talking smack to the Reverend Mother in Dune 1984. Love that!
"GET OUT OF MY MIIIIIIND!" 😆
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
Alia was my favorite character of the first couple of books.
@RichSmithson For the 1st time Lynchs Dune?
@RichSmithsoncan you share where we can stream it?
Paul said to his mother that chani will come to understand ive seen it. So im sure she will eventually come back.
She'll come back and with their first child in hand. I can't wait!
I think she’ll come back towards the end but only after Paul relinquishes control and blindly ‘walks into the desert’. A lot of Paul’s visions will continue to have been misdirections. Especially anything around Paul, Chani and some twins.
@@relint12 That wouldn't make a lot of sense. he only goes into the desert because A) he's blind and B) he can't use his prescience to see due to grief over Chani's death. How would the twins be born?
He sees a lot of different universes. This was said before he killed the Baron iirc, and the book says when he kills the Baron their was a bad timeline
@@stephengrant4841 I expect the timeline to be shuffled quite a bit with Chani leaving. Paul won’t be able to find her until he’s blinded and gets that huge burst of foresight, turns over the keys to the empire and walks directly to Chani. As the man she fell in love with not the Emporer. In this timeline the twins may or may not have already been born shortly after Paul and Chani split.
Im so excited to see the next part. Im already hooked in some Dune lore videos on TH-cam. A couple years ago watching Dune 1 was quite problematic because I was struggling with following the plot because of the freaking names. This time I was prepared and understood the entire story immediately
I think it definitely helps to read the books, I knew everything going on in Dune Part 1 but my buddy who went with me said he had no idea what was going on. I thought it seemed straightforward, but I’ve just taken it all for granted because I’ve read the books; but I can see it being more vague for someone not well-versed in the lore.
I think you mean sequel. Not next, since these two parts are only covering the first book, and they ready done. Next will be the sequel.
@@arvelcrynyd6311 I hadn't read the books nor really knew anything about the Dune universe but I wasn't confused in the slightest while watching the first film a year or two ago. So I suppose it varies from person to person
That you so much for explaining the blue thing with chani. Had no idea
As long as the writing and the quality of the cinematography stays up, keep'em coming. Take my money, please!
If a third movie is made, I REALLY hope we get to see a guild navigator.
I think you sequel. Not third movie, since these two parts are only covering the first book, and they ready done that. Next will be the sequel.
Aren’t they in the ceremony scene on Caladan.
@@jamiepeirce526 only representatives, not the navigators
They MUST be in the Messiah because Edric is the one of the important characters
Isn't he only in the story for the meeting with the plotters and when meeting with Paul @@NikolaPuljić-o1n
Paul does not fear the "Golden Path" due to the billions of deaths, as they will already happen with the Jihad that he started to solidify his position as new Emperor. Infact, Paul didn't start the "Golden Path" at all. The "Golden Path" is a vision of the future with the intention to save humanity as a whole and it would take millennia to accomplish and it would require from Paul to give up his humanity completely to make it happen. This is what he couldn't bring himself to do he was not ready to become a god like immortal entity so that he could actually create this path for humanity. So in the end it was his son Leto II. who actually did it by becoming the God Emperor.
Doesn't his son become a half worm/human hybrid? Hence how becomes the God Emperor? 🐛
@@KermitOfWar Yes. He does that to gain near Immortality and shedding his "humanity" as the Golden Path had to be followed over such a long time no one with a short lifetime like a human could ever fully understand and actually go trough with it. And Paul, simply didn't want to "give up" his humanity.
@@KermitOfWar We see in the books though, that they have complete control over their body chemistry with Alia stopping her aging and even Leto II manipulating the little Maker to fuse with it. It would've been possible for Paul to make himself immortal without the worm. However, fusing with the worm gives Leto II an endless supply of spice internally, so he is constantly tapped into SpiceVision in which he is always seeing the future all the time (and the superhuman strength, too).
Thank you.
Exactly.
In a sense, Paul is gathering the materials. Leto II is laying the foundation.
I think what Villeneuve is doing is brilliant. He is staying true to the source material, while also giving us book readers a twist that makes sense. He is showing us things that the book merely glanced over; and, if people really want to know more, all they have to do is read the books. These movies are expanding on the books. If the first 15-20 minutes of Part 3 is a Holy War in space and on different planets spanning 10 years-15 years, the movies can stay in line with the books timeline. An opening montage would totally work. It can also show Chani coming back to Paul, and the Bene Gesserit influencing Irulan to sabotage Paul and Chani relationship.
When Messiah is released and successful, I wouldn't mind Villeneuve stepping down as director; but, staying on as producer, and hand picking the next Director. Maybe Jonathan Nolan? He did a killer job with Westworld Season One. An unknown Director, that Villeneuve trusts, could also be an awesome fit.
I also want to See Jason Mamoa again as Duncan Idaho.
Does Duncan Idaho dies and never returns in the books ? I was kind of skeptical how how real was Jason Mamoas death in the movie especially when the camera showed how peaceful his face looked almost as if he was not completely dead.
@@martini87cnot only is he not dead, he actually gets cloned like a million times
He’s dead but he gets cloned
I think the next movie should be entirely the holy war and then Messiah should be 2 parts
@@cgoins1993 I don’t think they’ll do that, because the only book that details events between Dune and Messiah is Paul of Dune, written by Brian Herbert after his father’s death, and most fans of Frank Herbert’s Dune books do not consider Brian’s books to be canonical. I mean, I guess most Dune fans just don’t consider them at all. I am going to give them a fair shot, when I eventually finish Chapterhouse lol. But it would be kind of boring and not really fit the tone of the Dune franchise. Frank Herbert didn’t really care to expand that much on 12 years of holy war. It’s enough to show the impact it has on Fremen culture.
I hope part 3 really spend time showing the tremendous death toll of Paul's Jihad on the conquered planets ,and on the fremen.
It'll be a montage, only way to do it and stay faithful to the book.
It would be a great opening scene and have the princess irulan narrating over it like a journal entry.
Villeneuve talks a lot about being faithful to Herbert's message with his work. I feel like we can definitely count on that.
i wanna see more of the guild navigators in detail
@@adamjohnson6016 lol you don’t have to stay _THAT_ faithful to the book 😅😅 imagine if the Harkonnen attack was “faithful to the book” AKA nonexistent on screen
The best part about movie adaptations is being able to bring grandeous action sequences to life with the best tech available
I would like to see the Dune prequel trilogy that outlines the human-machine war, The Butlerian Jihad, The Machine Crusade, and the Battle of Corrin. I listened to those audiobooks when I was commuting to and from work and really enjoyed them. There are plenty of battles and political intrigue/scheming would be a perfect fit.
These books are really amazing, really undervalued by many.
Those aren't canon. If you want the real Butlerian Jihad that was FH-approved, read the Dune Encyclopedia by Dr. Willis McNelly. That's the grown-up version that doesn't rely on cartoonish Terminator ripoffs.
@@Shan_Dalamani He approved it because he found it amusing. To me that's the same level of invented by others than the books witten by his son. And of course he couldn't approve those, because guess what, Frank wasn't alive to approve it. But sure some people rather stick to one thing and call it the absolute truth and all the rest is for and by plebs.
@@ThaGamingMisfit He wouldn't have approved of the nuDune BS because it was just made-up BS that was a blatant ripoff of the Terminator movies. It had NOTHING to do with the established canon that FH had already written.
FH and Dr. McNelly had plans to collaborate on a Butlerian Jihad novel. Sadly FH died before they could do that. It would have been fantastic.
@@Shan_Dalamani That is interesting when you say McNelly's Encyclopaedia was canon, when Mr. McNelly says it was not, especially when he was allowed to see Frank Herbert's notes. Also, Frank Herbert indicated he endorsed the attempt, not all the so called facts stated. His exact quote was " scholarly bypaths and amusing sidelights. Some of the contributions are sure to arouse controversy, based as they are on questionable sources." end quote. All of the Prequels and Sequels were based on the aforementioned notes. Yes, there may have been quite a bit of license going on, because notes are just that, notes or outlines and details needed to be fleshed out.
First off, I just wanna say kudos to you for giving shoutouts to your editors. It may seem like a small thing, but editors matter, the people working behind the scenes matter and they deserve to have credit and they deserve the chance to gain a reputation and maybe move on to larger better paying projects. So often everyone from big companies to small businesses think that if they give their employees recognition and fair pay that they'll get 'big heads' and demand more (or just demand to be paid in line with the value of their work.) I get that especialy for a small channel (wait ... 1.58 million subs... did not relaize how big this channel was) it can be hard to pay people as much as you might want to. I have no idea what your pay structure is but at least giving people credit for their work is fantastic from an ethical point of view.
Secondly, thanks for this video. I've been watching a few (actually this is the second one) about the future plot of Dune books. I've thought of reading them, but a friend of mine who's read them mentioned to me that, "Yeah they're great, but the author was definitely homophobic. There's some queer stuff in it, but it's all bad." So I don't think I really want to put the effort into reading them. (Also, while I pay be tempted to end my books on a sour note when I write them, fuck if I wanna read that!)
I do think that the mythos and what not of Dune seems really interesting and definitely subversive. But I also wouldn't be surprised if moving on any future adaptations have to change more and more of the plot to make it coherent. When you have casted actors that the audience loves, it can be much less motivating to show up to the next movie.
I wondered if Dune Messiah might need to be two movies but I just looked up the word count, it's less than half the size of the first book so I guess they could probably make that into one movie.
Ultimately these are being made by WB so they'll probably milk the franchise until it's dead.
Just seen it again. Absolute masterpiece. Can’t wait for part 3.
Also it’s crazy how Zendaya has similar roles and is the key to saving Spidey in the end, and now Paul with her Love. She is The One lol
When I saw Zendaya in part 1, I already have low expectarion of her. As an actress, Im not really a fan, but she could definitely work well as a model 😅😅
@@kmh4076 weird comment
Just seen it for the 2nd time rn but this time at imax 70mm first time was just regular imax but OMG what an experience 😳 👏 😭🔥🔥
@@momo23461 Did you go by yourself? I always wonder when people say they have gone to see it 2-3 times lol
She is a hood actress. I wsnt to see her in more movies
Given Alias age in that flashforward. One massive time jump at the very least
Or visions like it's suggested in this video. And since Paul's prescience is so strong thanks to the water of life, his visions of adult Alia can be extremely vivid and they can have whole conversations
The sandworm poison also speeds up her development in the books, so they could still stick to the 12 year time jump and just say she aged really quickly
Thanks for diving into this. You made things much more clear.
Will be interesting to see how the ghola 'Hayt' is depicted as a Zensunni mentat/philosopher and whether he will have metallic eyes as well. In the book, this version of the character was depicted as quite mild mannered in comparison, as he was not trained as a warrior.
Me not knowing anything about Dune “man these movies are amazing. I cannot wait for the next one!”
Me after reading up on the lore “uhhh… think im good actually…”
I would urge you to read at least "Dune."
Myself, I quit after "God Emperor of Dune" (4th in the series), as I liked each sequel less than the preceding.
Many are enthralled with the entire series.
its wild, 3000 years of the mad-lad mutant worm dictatorship involving clones, robots, magic nuns and space assassins all commiting fuckery until humanity finally learns that computers arent scary and its ok to use them for space travel.
Yeah, the story slowly but steadily goes to shit with each book after the first one.
@@PerritoGG Wrong. God Emperor is the best book in the entire series.
@@blah55044 If you like endless pages of Leto's rambling self-pity party.
I fear that a film adaptation of anything beyond Paul’s story will just be weird.
Unfortunately :(( the twins are 🐐’d but no way in hell can they find actors who look the part to perform the part properly. Even if they make them a bit older, unless they’re high school looking.
That’s probably why they took that route with Alia as well. Maybe they could’ve done some telepathy shit but then the movie would have been 3+ hours
Yeah, i had always imagined an anime series of Leto II as emperor and each episode or season would tell of the past or the future as he saw it and could recount all of the novels at literally any pace because as he saw it, it would basically be the same thing. There's even a scene in one of the later books where a main character randomly stumbles across a cache of spice left there just because he knew she would find it. He would be the perfect narrator.
Probably why Villeneuve had been pretty firm in saying he's quitting after part 3.
They definitely need more Voice in Dune 3. Even the fighters learned the voice in the original film adaptation, and watching Paul implode Feyd Rautha’s chest in the climax of Dune is a very satisfying cinematic moment. I was disappointed by the end of the fight in Dune part 2.
So none of those things are in the book. The Voice isn’t magic. It’s like sci-fi psychology. Paul can’t cave in the ground with it. And the whole voice weapons aren’t in the book.
Chani doesn't 'leave' Paul, she goes south and knows that Paul marries Irulan as a political convenience, not a love match, Chani will always have his heart and will have his children, Irulan gets nothing physical/emotional. I'm so pleased that you are pointing out the differences so I don't have to rant on, thank you! The film(s) are really well made, the books are infinitely better. I think Alia of the Knife could have been included, she killed Baron Harkonnen in the book, in the film she's still in utero!!!! It's a pity that the Guild Navigators were completely omitted too!
The Dune Movies have been incredible so as long as the story and production are good, I could see this story continuing.
I just hope the story continues with Paul
As mentioned, there is so much material in the Dune Universe. The six primary books, and also the Brian Herbert prequels and sequels (a love\hate issue for the book readers), that would all be great movie material. Momentum seems to be building here. There is an opportunity to make this a new Sci Fi film franchise. That kind of opportunity is very rare. It would be an enormous waste by the studio for long-term success and profit to stop after 3 movies - just a third of the primary Frank Herbert books.
It wasn't just the war that killed 60 billion people. A lot of the deaths are due to Paul's control over the Spacing Guild through his control of Spice. The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on interstellar travel because they're the only ones who can safely navigate folded space. And they do it with Navigators who have been mutated by the Spice, and these Navigators need Spice to survive. So by controlling the Spice, Paul can force the Spacing Guild to cut off entire worlds from trade, starving them out. This is a big part in how he's able to fight against the Great Houses, their armies can't do anything without the Spacing Guild to transport them to different planets.
They'll probably have to make a longer time jump. In the book, Alia is around 16. If they plan on having Anya Taylor-Joy play Alia, she's not going to be 16. So I think either Dune Messiah movie will start like 20 - 22 years after Dune part 2 or they'll put a time jump in Dune Messiah where it starts 12 years after part 2 and then have a time jump to 8 or 10 years later.
I wonder if they will cut the book into 2 also ? With the first part being the war against great houses with a small time jump and the second part with a big time jump and the rest of the story
I like the idea presented in this video where there won't be a large time jump and Paul would be speaking with his grown sister (played by Anya Taylor-Joy) through visions and she will constantly remind him when he's straying from the path they have chosen for him. The movie needs to show the genocidal holy war. The different factions can plot against Paul without a need for a large time jump
In the original movies she just aged faster
I have a feeling that the next movie is going to be a merging of Messiah and Children of Dune.
Yup!
I think it will be a merging of new content focused on the jihad and Messiah. Children of Dune would need 2 movies.
Take elements of Children, like Jessica returning half way through the film to plot against Alia and to try to save Paul. That give her a bigger character arc, going from Dukes concubine and protective mother to grieving survivalist refugee to scheming manipulating antagonist, to realizing her daughters “abomination” and the cost of their plotting on humanity in the form of Pauls Holy War. She can then have a redemption arc where she tries to save paul and expose Alia, becoming the protective mother once again. This way Fergeson can be in the movie and also have a satisfying charcter arc
@@justinschramer7548 I always thought Alia was a tragic figure with the possession of her grandfather and her being abandoned by her mother.
I don’t think so. If they stretched the first book into two movies then Messiah can certainly be one, as it’s around half the length of the first Dune book. The Sci-Fi channel did that, but that’s a different format, it was a 3 part miniseries in which the first episode was Messiah and the other two episodes were Children of Dune (despite the miniseries just being titled “Children of Dune”). Basically, I think you only need one 2.5-3 hour movie for Messiah, as it’s the shortest book in the series. This way they can actually title the film “Dune: Messiah” instead of just blending it in with Children, like Sci-Fi Channel did. If they do Messiah I really hope they end up doing up to at least Children though, Messiah ends on somewhat of a downer, at the very least it’s not much of a conclusion.
Please don’t wait too long. My father (a MASSIVE fan of the franchise) died of cancer between the initial intended release date of part 1 and the actual release date.
Watching it with him was something I was desperate to do. :(
Take the time you need to make a fantastic product. But we are entrusting you with so much more than just a movie. This is a legacy. And so far you haven’t let us down.
Based on the movie version of things, Paul starts the holy war or the Fremen are wiped out...if Chani comes to understand that maybe it's better than the alternative. It's all up for grabs with the changes made lol
It will hurt me so much to wait for the next decade for Messiah...
Alia appearing that mature after only 12 years is possible. In the book she exhibits accelerated growth/development as a result of her exposure to the Maker's Water in the womb.
Wow good similes, and points on sw and dune…I hope they delve deeper into Paul and Chani’s relationship in the next film…you have some great ideas, that sound like it could make for a great film…I never read the books, but both dune1 and 2, were fantastic. Can’t wait.
Dune is so darn hard to adapt to film since so much of the conflict is internal/philosophical or behind the scenes as plots within plots, so there a lot of side characters with their own agendas & motivations as well as thousands of years of history. It's a lot to get on screen in a film.
that's why it's so strange that DV left out major important portions of the story and yet felt like he had time to include new useless characters
This would be even better as a series.
All I got to say is good luck wrapping up Leto story.
That's the big one that no one can ever finish explaining.
Just put one of those popcorn buckets on Finn Wolfhard as Leto II. BOOM 💥 the script writes itself
Leto was basically a dick to humans for so long that they thought "was AI really so bad?" got their shit together and made some proper spaceships
Paul's destiny sounds very so similar to the character of Eren from the anime Attack on Titans😮
Well, Dune has been ripped off by just about everything since the book came out. Sounds like the creator if Attack on titan, like many creators, ripped off Dune after they read it.
I love how all these breakdowns say different things about Paul's choices and if he's the hero or the villain of the story
He is not the hero - Paul is a false prophet - he is encouraged by everyone around him to exploit the religious beliefs of the Fremen instilled in them centuries ago by the Bene Gesserit to further his own goal - Revenge for his fathers murder.
He's not the Kwisatz Haderach, he's just someone who can easily be slotted into that role.
After he drinks the water of life you can see him change and pursue his own goals relentlessly.
yes there should be more of dune. that dive into the little details of all the houses
In dune saga there's no heros, just a man who acts in heroic deads as long as it is destined for him, then he or they would become evil at a deferet time... that goes for everything lerally, even the worms themselves. The story emphasizes the fixed destiny aspect alot.
I think the story goes too hard on his hero journey. Not enough signs of the problem with his ascension. Too many people watching this film like it's LOTR and it isn't
The First DUNE, was and will be, the best!
When ever they make
a remake of the original, they seem to mess up the Original Story Line!
9:36 this actually makes a lot of sense.
Dude from desert planet, who is the chosen one, has dreams of his wife dying in childbirth, she has twins, dies, and the kids have magical powers while one brings order to the universe... sounds familiar.
Which is why Frank Herbert contemplated suing George Lucas back in the day…. ;)
In a weird way. Pauls new army is like the clones in Star Wars
Star wars was inspired from Dune books.
There are soooo many ripoffs. General ideas are one thing, how original can you be when it comes to imperial space hero/villain stories? But it’s the super specific shit that bugs people
even the name Skywalker. In Star Wars, sky walkers were originally navigators who were force sensitive people that could traverse the dangers of the unknown regions by use of their force powers to see slightly into the immediate future. Like wtf seriously George Lucas lol??
****SPOILER BELOW for books 2-4****
The protagonist who is supposed to be the good guy falls to evil, he has a lover that he hides from the galaxy, they have twins, mother dies in birth, sexual tension between the twins, the male twin goes on to be the hero, the father helps the son to defeat the emperor (or empress) and dies in the process, son restores the galaxy,
Like dude that is the most fuckinf specific you can get lol can’t believe it 😂😂
And that’s just _some_ of the VERY specific stuff. There’s loads and loads of almost direct rip offs
Han Solo is gurneey, spice smuggler, great fighter
Tattooine desert planet
Sand worm on tattooine
Tusken raiders
Rock melter bomb thing inspired lightsabers
Oh there’s a religious cult like people who use mind powers to control you using their voice? YA DONT SAY??
lol there’s so much more shit, too, there’s videos on this if you want to search em up
Frank Herbert even put a roast of Star Wars into one of the later books. I forget what it was exactly, but he called something “three P O” in a sentence that called it basically pirated garbage
@@DropBear_42 You realize that Dune predates Star Wars by over 10 years, right? And there was no "sexual tension" between Leto and Ghanima because they were NINE YEARS OLD? The miniseries cast older actors, since there's no way that child actors could ever handle material like that, and modern audiences would never accept child Ghanima marrying adult Farad'n to breed future generations of Atreides for Leto's new breeding program.
@@Shan_Dalamani his points still stand, buddy.
@@Noqtis 1. My name is not "buddy." 2. No, they don't, for the reasons I stated.
If you want to argue with me, read the entire 6-volume series that Frank Herbert wrote. Recall that Herbert found so many similarities in the Star Wars movies that he considered suing George Lucas for plagiarism.
And then come back and argue with me.
Every video I’ve seen so far has talked about Paul’s “betrayal” to Chani. Now I have never read the books but the idea I got from the film was Paul was doing that to protect her. He has seen images of her dying and I was wondering if he followed the path of marrying irulan to prevent Chani’s death. Many times during the end of the movie Paul made eye contact with Chani almost evidence he still cares for her. The more obvious evidence is when he says he will love her until his last breath.
These lines from Paul to Chani in the book and missing from the movie, really changes the audiences perception of the ending.
Paul:
"I swear to you now ... that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire."
Jessica adds:
"Think on it, Chani: that princess will have the name, yet she'll live as less than a concubine-never to know a moment of tenderness from the man to whom she's bound. While we, Chani, we who carry the name of concubine-history will call us wives."
For all those who don't like to read books and are confused about the movies of dune.
There are audio books that a person can listen to that go into detail and explain the world and universe of dune and all the houses and how everything fits together.
Have a feeling they will split the next movie into two parts, and add even more things that were not in the books. BTW: what did Chani think would happen after they defeated the Harkonnen? No one will ever come back to recolonize Dune? Paul is taking care of the next problem before it happens.
Bless The Maker and his Work!
At 12:12 "Remember that spider creature from the first film?" How could anyone forget!?
Chani is not going to lead a faction against Paul. That would be a huge and unecessary change. She is going to help redeem Paul by having his children.
Chani should have know better, after all Paul resisted everything Chani asked him to do, but when Paul does, she get confused
@@d1want34thats how the writer wrote her, rightt 😅
What happens to his wife
@t2nexx561 according to books( major spoilers if you haven't read them) she is just a wife in name and nothing else and they didn't have a romantic relationship.
@user-jr9bu7em8s Irulan conspired against Paul for the BG. But felt remorse and became his biggest advocate and advocate for the children after Chani died. Basically, it's a second mother, but yes, they weren't romantic. It was unrequited love.
Zendaya will make ''PART 3'' the best of the entire trilogy.
Bring back this cast and I'm in. In a move with a million closeups, Zendaya does so much with just expression. Paul first said I'll be with you as long as I breathe, later says I'll love you as long as I breathe.
Thank you for acknowledging the changes. Big fan of the book, so it was notable when they completely changed the ending.
Great point with the blue scarf, never even thought about it.
I think chani will come back to Paul. There is a reference in the end of the book about powerful women.
Alia shouldn’t be a problem in the time jump. Remember because of the water of life, she grows faster than her actual chronicle age. 1984 dune mentioned this quickly, it’s talked about in the books. So even though she was 2-3 chronically, she looked like a 7-8 year old.
Same can be true with Anya playing this character. With the time jump she can be anywhere from 12-14 years old, but look like a fully grown adult.
I prayed I am still alive to witness/watch all 26 books to be a movie.
Another two parter please!
Not enough material in Dune Messiah. The book is half as long as the first book and would need a lot of filler to make two full length movies.
Haven’t read the books, but from what little I’ve seen in some of the “Lore Videos”, I wonder how much Acid Frank Herbert took while writing the series? A Worm person thing?? I love the movies, and they make sense all on their own (if you have an imagination).
In the book Alia kills Baron Harkonnen which drove her mad as an adult. This is an important plot thread that I’m wondering if that will even be included now
I wouldn't be surprised if they change it to it happening to Paul instead.
I’m so sure that Leto the worm god is the voice we hear at the start of the movies. I really want to eventually see this on screen
What voice?
@@nelhitemup7342 yh at the start of both movies there’s a weird booming voice speaking in a strange language
I have been saying all week that I think Villeneuve is making a composite character out of Chani and Korba. The biggest key to me is that in Part 2, Chani refers to herself as one of the Fedaykin. In the book, NONE of the Fedaykin were female. Also, Korba was completely absent from the movie, whereas he was prominent enough in the book to have been included in both the 1984 film AND the 2000 miniseries . . . and of course, he had a major part to play in the Dune Messiah portion of the Children of Dune miniseries.
I believe that Chani will come back into Paul's trust, for better or for worse. For very specific reasons, Paul will not allow Irulan to have any children, and the twins have to be born. And as the host mentions here, Irulan does participate in the conspiracy against Paul in Dune Messiah, however, Paul forgives her - and he does so for even more very specific reasons having to do with her wanting to bear his heir, and what she does in her attempts to bring that to pass . . . and the inadvertent side effect of those attempts. The heartbreaking decision Paul makes at the end of the second book will carry more dramatic weight if it follows Chani fulfilling not only her role as outlined in the book, but Korba's role, as well.
I just need the half worm emperor to happen on the big screen.
No you don't. That sort of adaption from the books would be better in a tv show
sr thank you for the amazing video, i just finished dune 2 and thanks to your explanation i can sleep well.
Looking forward to seeing a giant half-worm, half-man on IMAX in the next movie
You will be disappointed. We don't meet Leto II as the worm hybrid until God Emperor of Dune, the 4th book...we'd still have to get through an adaption of Children of Dune before that 3500 year time jump.
Nice over view. I do not think the change to Chani not following Paul is such a great change as it is illogical. Chani was willing to fight for Freman freedom a path that would most probably lead to a war with all the other houses any way? It seems she only is avoiding the inevitable.
I wish more people understood what Paul really became at the end of Dune part 2. He ultimately made the choice to use the Fremen out of his need for revenge over all else. He is closer to a space H!tler than a savior for their people
Duncan Idaho resurrection will be dope
I know Leto II likes his Duncans.
Part two was so amazing!!!
Dude, your video rocks !!! Keep going !!!
What is the arguably the most significant and probably darkest book is God-Emperor,which is more cerebral but it also contains dark themes and Leto II’s astonishing physical appearance that’s holds the essence of the story…it would require a lot of thought and imagination to create the flim …
Chani says go south, Paul says no.
Again Chani says go south. Paul says no, everything will go to sh*t if i do.
Paul eventually goes south and then the holy war begins. Love is blindness.
Great work my man very entertaining, and the doggie haha... Oh well.
I just dont know how they are going to adapt dune messaiah to screen while making it even bigger than part 2. Are they going to show this holy war beginning to end or will it be a time jumps.
Yeah, the Messiah book doesn't match these two films at all.
@@notfromhere8889yea there is a 15 year time jump and techically now they need an 18 year time jump to just make ATJ casting of alia make sense.
@1183newman the films already skipped a time jump...so I wonder if the 3rd will.
@@notfromhere8889quite possible but would mean Alia is a year or two old, I mean technically that might be the best thing to do.
In the case of chani, paul said to lady jessica that chani will come to understand , i have seen it
I don't remember any of this about nukes being outlawed. All the Houses of the Laandsrad had a nuke stockpile. It was an insurance policy.
They all had nukes, but it was law that they couldn’t use them on people. Paul blowing up the mountain with them narrowly skirted the line of that law.
@stephengrant4841 Thank you. Been some years since I've read the books, but I remember all the Houses had them.
@@OutlawCaliber13 yeah all the Houses had them, it was like a deterrent against the Empire and the Corrinos overruling their individual sovereignty
@@stephengrant4841 Exactly. They weren't outlawed though, like the video claims, right?
@@OutlawCaliber13 It was against the law to use them against people, but not against the law to have them.
I would love for them to make chapter houses and the book before that into a series
Hoping for 2 parts of last chapter sp everything can be revealed in full cinematic experience
Chani literally not wanting a white saviour.
cool vid! very helpful to understand Dune and the following events
Paul is a tragic hero though, the birth of Leto Atreides II and him seeing the golden path is literally what saves humanity.
For me, Dennis is right on ending on Messiah, but leaving some lose ends for future itinerations of the story... the way I see it, the books after Messiah are too much complicated to be translated into Dennis type of film... it needs story rework using the source material but not over do it like in the books.
Yes I believe Chani was pregnant at the end of Dune 2 and she will try to hide the children from Paul otherwise they get taken down his path (similar to Luke finding out his father is Vader and being tempted to the dark side). I don't think Chani will ever forgive Paul and hates what he has become that's why she will hide the kids and she will never trust him again.
What's a real mystery is the relationship between Paul and Irulan. At the end of Dune 2 Paul tells the Emperor that Irulan will be safe and he will protect her. I think the relationship will not be as cold and hostile as it is in the book.
I think Irulan will be more a spiritual guide that he trusts but no romance. So there's plenty there to try and figure out because only Denis knows the full plans for that relationship with Paul and Irulan. She may become the Obi Wan or a similar style of guide.
Can't wait to find out!
After all is said and done, someone in the boardroom whispers, "Dune Multiverse"
If they make “Messiah” I really hope they make films up to “Children of Dune”, while “Messiah” ends *somewhat* hopeful it’s also a bummer in a lot of ways. “Children” could be a good stopping point for the films though, as “God Emperor” is really weird and may be the most difficult to adapt to screen.
“Messiah” can be done in one film, as it’s the shortest book in the series. Then we could close out the series with another two-parter in “Children”, nice and symmetrical.
More Dune. Please. Always
How long will we have to wait for part 3?
Using these 2 movies as examples, at least 3 years (I think more)
@@psora1😰
3 yrs
@@psora1if that means if they do make another Dune movie I would be in my 40s when it comes out
From what I have heard, DV is going to make Rendezvous with Rama first, then do Dune: Messiah. So it might take 5-7 years until we see it in theaters.
I didn’t know MAX was going to do a prequel series based on Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson’s prequel books! Are we going to eventually get to see the Machine Crusade and all that rich history on the small screen? I just got way too excited lol
Based on Chani stronger character, reconciliation does not seem likely, but I think she was pregnant and will lose the child in the holy war and will make her fall in line due to the suffering. I think he will have the other two children with the princess, which will be the major changes from the book. Any rational woman would not forget but forgive, this is more grounded since there is a marriage in the way, also lack that statement from the book but i could be wrong.
There many reasons why she would not follow Paul but i don’t think she would lead a faction against him but more of a protest. She a non believer, she has understanding of cults, Paul married to another woman, a betrayal from paul, and at the end of part 2 he did not say he would not have children with the princess like the book. This is not sister wives 😂
Chani will be back
Could even expand to a 4th with chani making her own ‘ army ‘
A promising third installment. I hope we get improved acting from Chani
My biggest gripe with the Part Two is the time span between Paul escaping into the desert and his confrontation with the Emperor.
In the books Alia was about four during the showdown with the Emperor meaning Paul had about 5 years to learn the Fremen ways, bond with them, fall in love and nourish his relation with Chani, accelerate the terraformation of Dune (which is also a huge part of why the Fremen were so devoted to him) and then rally the people, annoy the Harkonnen and scare the crap out of the rest of the universe enough to incite an open war with the empire.
In Part Two he did all of this in less then 9 months. Jessica was "a few weeks" into the pregnancy before the Treason and was still pregnant during the finale...
It all can’t be captured properly, but the reason is Jessica can’t give birth yet there just wasn’t room for how important it really is
My guy, you're comparing a novel to a two hour and a half movie. They are two different things. The only true way to get a tit for tat novel to movie adaptation is through making a TV show with multiple seasons and episodes. DV is doing a fantastic job with how much leeway he's being given.
Gosh how long do you want the movie to be jeez
There is a fan theory that Jessica slowed her pregnancy down until Paul succeeded if you want to say it takes longer than a few months. But Villeneuve said he liked having the events of part 1 still fresh in the memory which wouldn't be the case if years had past.
@@komplex6081 did you not notice DV made two movies? he had two full movies and he still completely failed to include the most signifcant parts of the story but still found time to include irrelevant parts.
Paul is never the villain Darth Vader was. Rather he is a victim of his own knowledge. He has to play the part of Emperor for a bit to make the golden path happen but he hates it It’s hard to believe the third movie will really make Channi his enemy. That would be d really warp the books. But she is the enemy of Imperial Court, Ireland and its intrigue. Her and Paul will reconcile but neither of these characters is meant to survive. The movies cast them as the main characters of the Dunverse but readers of the series know they are not. The story isn’t about a hero, it’s about the evolution of a society and the factions that make it up. It’s about the transformation of humanity, the golden path and an external threat that sadly the author didn’t survive to build out.
Please review Cabrini. The most empowering and uplifting movie I've seen in a long time.
I loved the movie Dune from the first time I saw the original movie when I was 10 yrs old
Damn dune has been the peak writing everyone has been leaching off of for decades
Mostly George Lucas.
How is Paul supposed to have his children with Chani if Chani is leading a resistance against him? I think these theories go a bit too far. Alia is enough of an antagonist for the story without making up entirely new arcs for the characters. Also, the Bene Tleilax existing in these films were more than just teased because the Baron's mentat, who died when Leto bit the poison tooth, was produced by them. That's where evil mentats come from.
man this is never ending tale and I want more. as long as they don't make it like Fast n furious franchise, I am good. Give me more..
Jessica: Alia go to your room!
Alia: But I am in my room..
I just watched the movie last night. The movie was overall really good, Especially the 3rd act. Considering how long this movie took i don't think we will get another with this cast. The time cuts were a bit bad and it felt like we didnt need the beginning of the movie.
Honestly yes yes and YES... EVERYTHING YES, besides the following series after Dune 3...it makes me nervous and I like the idea of movies much more 🤘
I honestly think chani will be back at the beginning of the next movie. Her walking away works better if they didn't get to make part 3 for reasons.
2:16 thank you doug, I hessitant to watch this video because I didn't want potential spoilers
Edit: Ryan: I will not bring any mayor spoilers about the book. Also Ryan (7:40): "This is a mayor plotpoint of the next book"
🙃
Never read the books or seen the previous movies. I’m positive the visions Paul saw was Chani coming back to fight against him. That’s the deaths he could have avoided had he not took the highborn lady’s hand.
I think if they're set to do dune messiah, that it would probably be best to do it like they did with this past dune as a part 1 and 2. Just my opinion.
Messiah is the shortest book by quite a bit, I don’t really think it would be necessary to break it into two films. I think they can easily cover all of Messiah in a 2.5 - 3 hour film.
Now, “Children of Dune” would probably have to be a two-parter, if they make the films up to that book.
@@arvelcrynyd6311 I suppose. Just thinking of what the video was saying that they would have to do a time jump and immediately my thoughts were break it into 2.