Sweet video. A good friend and i used to spend hours and hours and sometimes whole weekend binges playing this game. He always played the Germans and me the Russians. We seldom used the British or American pieces. We combined all our boards and playing pieces from all our games (we each had all 4 in the set), playing on a table at least 4'x6', choosing our armies according to their point value up to 10,000 points. Split that army into 3 battalions, entering the board with one battalion turn one another turn two and rolling one die to see what turn the third battalion would enter. Our turns usually took anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half. It was great fun entering the board with an even dozen T-34/85's, loaded with engineers and -3 leaders, who are loaded with demo charges and flame throwers..... yep, great fun. He won most of the times. It was hard to get by them German 88's that were firing at me from the mountain tops.
I got lucky and have two copies of each of he Squad Leader games. Squad Leader, Cross of Iron. Crescendo of Doom and G.I. Anvil of Victory. I was also able to purchase a few extra boards that were not in the original games. I have been playing them since the early 80's and won't stop playing. Thanks for a great video. I am trying to teach one of my nephews how to play. I miss the friends I used to game with. We all got older and moved on.
Thanks for the great overview of how Squad Leader developed. I bought Squad Leader (Third Edition) back in the late '70s or early '80s and still have it. I eventually purchased all of the add-on modules, along with ASL, but eventually sold all of those on eBay. I kept my original basic Squad Leader in the hope of teaching it to, and playing it with, my teenage son...and those hopes are now coming to fruition. Thanks again and I look forward to watching more of your videos.
If you can, acquire ASL Starter Kit 1. Its advantage is that it is updated, is available and actually has fewer rules than Squad Leader. If the interest is there, move on to Starter Kits 2 and 3. If not, you can easily offload the Starter Kit on eBay. Cheers!
As bizarre as it sounds, I started out playing Cross of Iron before purchasing Squad Leader as a teenager back in the 70s. This was because, for some weird reason in the area I lived, Squad Leader wasn't released until 1979, while Cross of Iron was available in 1978. Despite that fact, my friends and I figured out how to play the game even w/o the original rule book (we all had a lot of experience with AH war games). Although, if I remember correctly, we ended up creating a strange matrix system loosly based on AD&D rules for AP weapon attacks against armored vehicles (which obviously turned out to be wrong and overly complex). We incorrectly deduced this because the armored vehicles had what appeared to be the same -X, +X armor factors that AD&D used. When I eventually purchased Squad Leader we were quite shocked at how simple the actual armor factor resolution worked (just add and subtract from the die - D'oh!). And yes, we were stuck playing on that one board (No.5?) for a year before purchasing SL. We still had a lot of fun with it and later purchased all the other additions including G.I. AoV.
The problem with explaining ASL to new folks is that it's an 'Advanced' version. Too often I get stopped by folks wondering why not introduce them to regular game instead of diving into something that is 'advanced.' At that point I usually pulled out my old copy of Squad Leader and walk them through the system which was helpful due to the programmed rules approach. Although I tried a few times to introduce a number of folks to the starter kits the same question keeps hitting me again on why 'Advanced'. I stated that it was part of the product evolution of the original Squad Leader game and the legacy name Advanced' Squad Leader just stayed much like what happened with D&D to AD&D. At some point (before eBay) I realize that, folks can't pick up a new copy of Squad Leader anymore except through informal used markets, so it probably made sense at point when AH was still in business to simply to simply rebranded it as Squad Leader and provide Starter Kits within the first few years that ASL was originally published. Although they attempted this with Paratrooper this continued to relied on the legacy Squad Leader game which was folly especially when it was eventually dropped. Once the original game was dropped there was no viable route to introduce folks to the 'Advanced' system for the better part of at least a decade so limited the number of new folks with easily getting into the system. In hindsight this was a big marketing failure points to the mismanagement of brand identity, reminds me a lot of what Coca Cola did with the new formula.
hello David thank you for your videos, i know its alot to ask but could show how tanks work in a combat scenario i play squad leader an cross of iron thank you!
Hi Rory. Thank you for your comment. I'll do up a video here toon. Please note that I almost exclusively play Advanced Squad Leader now, but I'll look at a good COI scenario and hope to show you. David
@@DavidGarvinTechnophile Appreciate it. I didn’t know "Cross of Iron" was named for the film, which is great b/c I am a big fan of Sam Peckinpah. BTW does it matter which edition of "GI: Anvil of Victory" you use with Squad Leader 1977 4th ed?
Typical AH, nothing was ever simple enough for those guys (and I speak as an AH fan). Alan Moon wrote a great article about the chaos and creativity he experienced at AH, and their inability to recognise when a game was 'right' without shoving in an extra ten pages of rules. I bought SL and CoI but looked at ASL and asked myself how much more money do these guys expect me to throw at this? The question's even more valid today when the ASL modules often cost triple-figures (or getting on for it) each. A landmark game in the wargame hobby for sure, but the complexity and cost take it way beyond John Hill's initial intentions.
SL +CoI was killer , it got way way too complicated with CoD and AoV. Most of CoD was workable, but near the end , ugh. And Anvil was just way too ASL for me
@@DavidGarvinTechnophile well, full disclosure here, I bought SL back when it came out (about age 13), and the expansions as they came out, and me and my friends at the time were some rather smart dudes, and we basically could not get into ASL, when it came out, years later. we had a game group of about 7-10 people,all through school adding a couple older war-gamers too. . Mostly we played the original SL +CoI rules and then added the minimal rules to include CoD and AoV scenarios. we left out a lot of the advanced rules which became the core of ASL. Which we simply could not do. I salute that you did.(also ASL got expensive and only two friends ever bought into it) Anvil wasn't cheap either. My copy of SL plus the 3 exanpsions were destroyed in Hurricane Katrina sadly. I had loaned to a friend and his house was flooded/destroyed. Alot of us lost lost alot of stuff from that storm. But damn , SL and CoI, worked so good. I remember battles at Sowcho's 79, The Bichte Salient and the Tractor Works , The Paw of Tiger that were so much fun. They were complex enough, and the smell and intensity of the battle literally came right off the board. There were a couple scenarios in Cresendo of of Doom that got there, Rommel crosing the River and the British at Arras. The Finn battles . But Anvil had so many new rules , that it destroyed the 'favor of the game". I'd rather be at Buchholtz Station LOL Basic Squad Leaders plus Cross of Iron , IMO was the best board realistic war-game there ever was or has been*. It got corrupted by rules it didn't need. Nice that you liked ASL , but it ruined the game for us. "Bypass movement was interesting" but fighting over doing an LOS with a thread was not" LOL. We wore out many a thread just doing LOS in SL/CoI as it was. *next to SL+CoI, I rate TSR's "Divine Right" as best board wargame although it totally fanatsy and not realistic and is 'Risk" meets D&D). Avalon Hill's "Gettysburg" with the Intermediate rules comes in at 3rd(or 2nd for realism). And then probably Panzer Leader/Panzer Blitz. Regards to you, and subbed I will check out your other or future vids.
@@chrisperrien7055 Thanks for that. And I agree: SL/COI is a fantastic game. There are many scenarios for that level at wargameacademy dot org forward slash sqla. Hill 621 is my fave scenario and it plays well with the COI tank rules :) (Better, IMHO), but it's a great one at any level.
Sweet video. A good friend and i used to spend hours and hours and sometimes whole weekend binges playing this game. He always played the Germans and me the Russians. We seldom used the British or American pieces. We combined all our boards and playing pieces from all our games (we each had all 4 in the set), playing on a table at least 4'x6', choosing our armies according to their point value up to 10,000 points. Split that army into 3 battalions, entering the board with one battalion turn one another turn two and rolling one die to see what turn the third battalion would enter. Our turns usually took anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half.
It was great fun entering the board with an even dozen T-34/85's, loaded with engineers and -3 leaders, who are loaded with demo charges and flame throwers.....
yep, great fun.
He won most of the times. It was hard to get by them German 88's that were firing at me from the mountain tops.
I got lucky and have two copies of each of he Squad Leader games. Squad Leader, Cross of Iron. Crescendo of Doom and G.I. Anvil of Victory. I was also able to purchase a few extra boards that were not in the original games. I have been playing them since the early 80's and won't stop playing. Thanks for a great video. I am trying to teach one of my nephews how to play. I miss the friends I used to game with. We all got older and moved on.
Thanks for the great overview of how Squad Leader developed. I bought Squad Leader (Third Edition) back in the late '70s or early '80s and still have it. I eventually purchased all of the add-on modules, along with ASL, but eventually sold all of those on eBay. I kept my original basic Squad Leader in the hope of teaching it to, and playing it with, my teenage son...and those hopes are now coming to fruition. Thanks again and I look forward to watching more of your videos.
If you can, acquire ASL Starter Kit 1. Its advantage is that it is updated, is available and actually has fewer rules than Squad Leader.
If the interest is there, move on to Starter Kits 2 and 3. If not, you can easily offload the Starter Kit on eBay.
Cheers!
As bizarre as it sounds, I started out playing Cross of Iron before purchasing Squad Leader as a teenager back in the 70s. This was because, for some weird reason in the area I lived, Squad Leader wasn't released until 1979, while Cross of Iron was available in 1978. Despite that fact, my friends and I figured out how to play the game even w/o the original rule book (we all had a lot of experience with AH war games). Although, if I remember correctly, we ended up creating a strange matrix system loosly based on AD&D rules for AP weapon attacks against armored vehicles (which obviously turned out to be wrong and overly complex). We incorrectly deduced this because the armored vehicles had what appeared to be the same -X, +X armor factors that AD&D used. When I eventually purchased Squad Leader we were quite shocked at how simple the actual armor factor resolution worked (just add and subtract from the die - D'oh!). And yes, we were stuck playing on that one board (No.5?) for a year before purchasing SL. We still had a lot of fun with it and later purchased all the other additions including G.I. AoV.
Could never get my friends into the game, QRC scared them right out the room. Got Squad leader for Christmas 76/77
are the hexes the same size as the battletech bases? just curious.
Brings back some great memories
Thanks. I feel I often have to tell people how ASL came about :)
The problem with explaining ASL to new folks is that it's an 'Advanced' version. Too often I get stopped by folks wondering why not introduce them to regular game instead of diving into something that is 'advanced.' At that point I usually pulled out my old copy of Squad Leader and walk them through the system which was helpful due to the programmed rules approach.
Although I tried a few times to introduce a number of folks to the starter kits the same question keeps hitting me again on why 'Advanced'. I stated that it was part of the product evolution of the original Squad Leader game and the legacy name Advanced' Squad Leader just stayed much like what happened with D&D to AD&D.
At some point (before eBay) I realize that, folks can't pick up a new copy of Squad Leader anymore except through informal used markets, so it probably made sense at point when AH was still in business to simply to simply rebranded it as Squad Leader and provide Starter Kits within the first few years that ASL was originally published. Although they attempted this with Paratrooper this continued to relied on the legacy Squad Leader game which was folly especially when it was eventually dropped.
Once the original game was dropped there was no viable route to introduce folks to the 'Advanced' system for the better part of at least a decade so limited the number of new folks with easily getting into the system. In hindsight this was a big marketing failure points to the mismanagement of brand identity, reminds me a lot of what Coca Cola did with the new formula.
Great vid David. Takes me back many years!👍
hello David thank you for your videos, i know its alot to ask but could show how tanks work in a combat scenario i play squad leader an cross of iron thank you!
Hi Rory. Thank you for your comment.
I'll do up a video here toon. Please note that I almost exclusively play Advanced Squad Leader now, but I'll look at a good COI scenario and hope to show you.
David
That would be great thank you!
Is 2 six-sided standard dice all the dice needed to play this game? Thanks in advance.
That's correct
@@DavidGarvinTechnophile Appreciate it. I didn’t know "Cross of Iron" was named for the film, which is great b/c I am a big fan of Sam Peckinpah. BTW does it matter which edition of "GI: Anvil of Victory" you use with Squad Leader 1977 4th ed?
Typical AH, nothing was ever simple enough for those guys (and I speak as an AH fan). Alan Moon wrote a great article about the chaos and creativity he experienced at AH, and their inability to recognise when a game was 'right' without shoving in an extra ten pages of rules. I bought SL and CoI but looked at ASL and asked myself how much more money do these guys expect me to throw at this? The question's even more valid today when the ASL modules often cost triple-figures (or getting on for it) each. A landmark game in the wargame hobby for sure, but the complexity and cost take it way beyond John Hill's initial intentions.
Good history, thank you
thanks David !
SL +CoI was killer , it got way way too complicated with CoD and AoV. Most of CoD was workable, but near the end , ugh. And Anvil was just way too ASL for me
Full disclosure: I'm an ASL guy. That may be complex, but it doesn't get complicated.
@@DavidGarvinTechnophile well, full disclosure here, I bought SL back when it came out (about age 13), and the expansions as they came out, and me and my friends at the time were some rather smart dudes, and we basically could not get into ASL, when it came out, years later. we had a game group of about 7-10 people,all through school adding a couple older war-gamers too. .
Mostly we played the original SL +CoI rules and then added the minimal rules to include CoD and AoV scenarios. we left out a lot of the advanced rules which became the core of ASL. Which we simply could not do. I salute that you did.(also ASL got expensive and only two friends ever bought into it) Anvil wasn't cheap either.
My copy of SL plus the 3 exanpsions were destroyed in Hurricane Katrina sadly. I had loaned to a friend and his house was flooded/destroyed. Alot of us lost lost alot of stuff from that storm.
But damn , SL and CoI, worked so good. I remember battles at Sowcho's 79, The Bichte Salient and the Tractor Works , The Paw of Tiger that were so much fun. They were complex enough, and the smell and intensity of the battle literally came right off the board. There were a couple scenarios in Cresendo of of Doom that got there, Rommel crosing the River and the British at Arras. The Finn battles . But Anvil had so many new rules , that it destroyed the 'favor of the game". I'd rather be at Buchholtz Station LOL
Basic Squad Leaders plus Cross of Iron , IMO was the best board realistic war-game there ever was or has been*. It got corrupted by rules it didn't need. Nice that you liked ASL , but it ruined the game for us. "Bypass movement was interesting" but fighting over doing an LOS with a thread was not" LOL. We wore out many a thread just doing LOS
in SL/CoI as it was.
*next to SL+CoI, I rate TSR's "Divine Right" as best board wargame although it totally fanatsy and not realistic and is 'Risk" meets D&D). Avalon Hill's "Gettysburg" with the Intermediate rules comes in at 3rd(or 2nd for realism). And then probably Panzer Leader/Panzer Blitz.
Regards to you, and subbed I will check out your other or future vids.
@@chrisperrien7055 Thanks for that. And I agree: SL/COI is a fantastic game. There are many scenarios for that level at wargameacademy dot org forward slash sqla.
Hill 621 is my fave scenario and it plays well with the COI tank rules :) (Better, IMHO), but it's a great one at any level.
nice
IIFT or DEATH!! ;-)
Heretic! ;)