Dyno 440 Engine Build Part 4: Aftermarket Parts and the Cam Button Install
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- This 440 HP combines the best of old and new school technology. Using the factory crankshaft and rods, updated Icon pistons, trick flow 240 heads, upgraded rocker arms, and much more!
This video shows the challenges of an aftermarket timing cover working with the cam and cam button. This engine requires a cam button because of the Erson hydraulic roller camshaft.
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Cam Button!!
☑️
Now I love Big Blocks, but dealing with mostly small blocks my entire life ..... seems somebody would have manufactured the cam button set up to a science where you buy it and install it no questions asked. Good job on making it work, Joe!
Thanks, Tim. Improvise and overcome!
@@JustMoparJoe I hear ya, and you do great at it.... but Joe, we are 60 years into building big blocks ... and we still have to cut our teeth on it.....
It's amazing how many different sets of cam bolts a man needs when dealing with a button.
I’ll bring you some extras!
Happy New Year ! You did good with the bolts and button . I’d probably have ditched that fancy timing cover . I appreciate the way you teach what you’re doing and not just show it . That helps me to understand what’s going on . Were you a math teacher in another life ? Just kidding . Thanks again for the great video
Haha! A failed math teacher 😂 🥳
Very nice job Joe.
Well thought out.
That cover is so thick, I don't think you could have made the Roller button work.
Have a great day.
Thanks for the advice!
Good info
Thanks, John! Happy New Year 🎆
happy new year pretty boy
@@JustMoparJoe
Besides making every day awesome kids save the day with their play doh!!!!!
Haha! Exactly!
First thing is to do is countersink the timing gear so the ARP bolts don't stick out so far. Second thing is, the direction of rotation of a Mopar big Block and the way the auxiliary shaft gear is cut, it always holds the cam against the block. The auxiliary shaft drives the oil pump and the distributor. There's no way the cam can "Jump" forward. If the cam were to move forward, it would rip the teeth off of the cam or auxiliary shaft! I don't know where cam buttons on a 440 idea came from? Maybe the Chevy guys? Check it out. I think they want us to buy all of that shiny "Billet" stuff to make us broke. O'K., here comes the poop storm!
With $1,200+ in cam and lifters, it’s better to be safe than sorry. I like your 💡
You do still get a tiny bit of movement when you let off the throttle though. Seen quite a few on dyno's that make a "tink" when the button taps the cover after they pull off throttle at the end of a pull (watch nicks garage iirc his kowalksi engine). Not nearly as exaggerated as they claim but like Joe says, better to be safe. I have had my own cams walk forward when the gear wears down, bad enough that it double rolled a single lifter on the #2 intake. Wish i could post pictures on here >.< Now that I think of it, Joe has seen the pictures, he can verify!
The button is to control cam walk.
Cam walk is a problem with Roller Camshafts.
Also cam walk during deceleration, cam moving forward.
And at high RPM, cam moves forward and backwards effecting timing.
Been tested.
Cam Float in Small block Chevy can be worth 5 to 10 horsepower at 6,500 and above.
Check out Ed Iskendarian, Isky Anti Cam Walk.
Some food for thought.
Have a nice day.
My thoughts exactly. I had to go and reinspect my cam drive gear; definite bearing surface on the 'block' side of the gear. Of course, a bearing surface is on the block too - a thrust surface.
I'm trying to imagine if any inertia is stored in the oil pump/distributor drive causing backlash upon deceleration.
However, if oil pump and no distributor drive is used,,, I see a definite need for the cam button and reinforced cam cover.
Love Mopar Joe's channel❤
@@thomasfisher2879 thanks brother. I’m sure you saw my video about the Chinese made, bronze distributor gear. It had a mile of slack in it, compared to the milodon. That would actually allow a great deal more movement. No one out there argues against the crankshaft having thrust. The camshaft is on the same plane, rotates the same direction, is acted on by the timing chain(connected to the crank). We don’t have the flat tappet lifters here to cause 16 areas of friction on the cam, so I think the button is cheap insurance.
Hey Joe
Nice work ,….
very glad to see you make custom parts ,….
while employing basic machining skills .
I like the refined .
Thank you very much!
You got it together 😊. You have more patience than I.😊
Thanks brother
Happy new year its good to be a machinist when building engines cnc lathes r great
Absolutely! I’m working on building up my tools
Dont thin the bolts - counterbore the bolt holes in the timing gear to the dia of the bolt flanges , and 1/8" deep (or ever how much it takes). Wont hurt the gear and easily done on a drill press.
Wow! No thanks! You can drill your gear on a drill press! No precision that way! That is a run away! Bad advice! Get ready to duck! Expensive KABOOM!!!
@@steveash9831
The holes are already there .
The counterbores will follow them and be concentric .
I have a vertical mill and yeah that wud be best .
But i doubt he does .
An even better approach wud be to use a piloted spot facer . But I'm pretty sure he duznt hav a set of those either. Not many do.
@@steveash9831
Have you ever heard of clamping yr workpiece to the drill press table ???
Thanks, Michael. I don’t have a mill or lathe. I think my methods help the normal guy who is in a similar situation. I worry about countersinking the bolts with my tools. I do have a drill press and would clamp it up. But if the hole being cut wasn’t matched to the angle of the bolt, then it may not reach the correct torque spec. I will loctite the bolts after washing the holes and bolts. I will definitely keep your recommendation in mind for the future.
Problems are just opportunities for JMJ to come shining through! 🎉
Haha! Thanks Big Mike!
Wow, whatta deal to get that dialed in. Good job joe.
Thanks Jeff!
Button head bolts baby!
They worked well! I’ve got many for the future.
Good problem solving skills Joe. Sometimes these aftermarket parts create challenges. Sharing different ways to solve these problems helps keep things interesting. Having the added insurance of the cam button and a strong timing cover should hopefully provide many years of reliable service.
Thanks Nick
Good fix on the cam bolts & button ,,love torx & allen head bolts in a squeeze,, & you had on the Dyno & didn't let us know the specs,, now that's just being a tease 😆 😆 😆 😃 👍 👍
Thanks brother. That was the 400. But I will get the 440 on the dyno and will do a competition to guess the numbers
@@JustMoparJoe Cool 👍 👍
I know not to get one thank you Joe for showing stuff like that
Happy New Year Joe at least we made it thru 2023 and let see how 2024 will do for us.
Thanks brother. Will make 24’ one to remember!
Will be one fine looking engine when you are done and most likely run just as nice as it looks, should make a cam button and set of bolts in a kit for those timing covers and gears now that you know how long the bolts and buttons have to be for that timing set and cover is now, seems like it would save other people using the same setups a lot of time and headaches,call them MJs timing solutions, just a thought, can't wait to see it on the dyno and thanks for sharing the info
That’d be great! Happy New Year!
Happy new year Joe and happy new year to everyone
Happy New Year!
Looks good Joe...thanks and Happy New Year.
Happy new year!
Hey Joe, happy new year!
I had the same problem with the bolts hitting the cover when I put the roller cam in my first 440.
That was a standard cover tho 😮
Thank you, Timo! Happy New Year! I’m ready to see your car at the track! You’re rocking it!
@@JustMoparJoe you and me both!!
😮 I'm not feeling comfortable with that timing cover Joe 😕. Seems you have to reinvent the wheel just to make it work. It would probably make a good plate to stack up a lot of mashed potatoes and gravy while watching TV 😅
It’s a heavy piece. Very sturdy for sure
Seems to me the easiest solution to the bolt clearance would be to get a different cover that is deeper and has more clearance.
I think those covers are $200+. We’ve had this one so long, that they probably wouldn’t restock it.
Out of all that, all i can think of is what the heck did they do to mangle that poor water-port surface so badly! Anywho, yeah brother, after playing at Mr Ricks shop I bet now you're thinking heavily about a little lathe and mill for the shop, haha! Would make short work of clearancing :)
That’d be awesome! Rick wants always wants me to upgrade! 😂
Happy New Year Joe!!!
Happy new year!
Steve Dulcich got stuck right into ARP in a vid about this sort of thing awhile back, but frankly I can't see how an aftermarket timing cover can be sold out of spec; I mean what's the use of it?
Recently I purchased a Milodon single idler gear drive kit for SBC OEM roller cam blocks. The kit comes with a cover for the SBC (yes I am a Mopar guy). I can tell you every part of that kit fitted perfectly. It wasn't easy to install but the reward was it is totally silent - like OEM chain silent.
Don't let people tell you single idlers whine. If you follow the lash setup instructions they don't seem to.
Thanks Paul. I imagine the cover would have worked with a single bolt cam gear that wouldn’t have required a button, like a flat tappet cam.
Look into a Buick Grand national roller cam button. It has a spring.
Nifty!
Buying aftermarket parts is flustrating.
Happy New Year
Thanks brother. Happy New Year
I use different headed bolts on my stuff, I haven’t used a cam buttes yet.
I may use one on this new build Idono yet, small cam
Thanks Dennis. It’s hard to say what happens at 7,000 rpm when you let off that loud pedal. I’m glad to have the protection
@@JustMoparJoe I don’t want to be up there at 7 my rpm chip at 6800
I ran them when I ran 650 lift cams
I used a big block Chevy ones
JMJ Happy New Year to you all.
Happy new year!
Great job Joe better to be safe than sorry its too easy and cheap not to carry on young man
Thanks, Ray!
Good info!! Please don't say you scooped the kids play-doh for this... Happy new year
'
Happy new year! I can neither confirm or deny 😂
Problem solving at its finest!
Thanks brother
Hey Joe. It is possible to install main stud girdle and windage tray together on the Small Block and big block Mopar? The parts are very expensive to import and I don't want to buy unnecessary things.
My 512 has a windage tray and girdle on it. I’m not sure on how the small block girdle works.
Fancy cover
Thick one!
Couldn't you just use the old style stamped steel? Did those have more clearance?
I checked. I have a set of 3 bolts from a 3 bolt factory camshaft. They were way too thick. I had to find a strong solution
@@JustMoparJoe o, I meant the timing chain cover
@@Trevscustoms yes sir. I have the stock stamped on my engine. This one belongs to a friend and he wanted the billet cover for extra strength.
👍🏻⚙️🔩📏👍🏻🇦🇺
Thanks brother
I'd call the button company and ask them what cover to use. If it's Comp Cams product, use their setup.
All that screwing around is rediculous!
You have to test fit everything in a high performance engine, and the majority of buttons are designed to use with stock covers. The stock covers flex some when the cam moves in the block.
Typical Mopar hot-rodding. If anything aftermarket actually fits in a Mopar, its purely accidental, because it was really designed for a Furd or a chebbie.
Thanks Bud
I can’t believe what people will make a TH-cam video from. Everybody look at me my bolt heads were too long Wow.
David, I could probably make a video of you typing complaints, but I don’t think I have enough memory card capacity. Happy New Year! Make it a resolution to not be so negative.
Finding a channel like this is what happens when you venture away from the bogus, sponsor-driven entertainment hot hodding you see on TV. This channel is for people who actually build stuff and enjoy real builds that go and do things in the real world. So, since it's not really applicable to anything you actually do, don't stress it.