Rob Childs technique is not complex, it's precise. It is the most basic way to use a rapier, but just done to such a fine and slick point that he doesn't need a wide variety of techniques to cover him. It's just a very simple approach with a lot of experience, talent, and diligence. Ergo, in my opinion, it's not surprising he would devise a similar approach. It still speaks highly of his understanding of swordsmanship, but I'm pretty sure Rob Childs figured out how to use the rapier the way he does in minutes too lol. He's an MOA fencer, so he already had a fantastic base to work from and the tools he needed to make his simple system work were already engrained in him.
Since it's primarily a thrusting weapon, poking and stabbing techniques from bo, jo, naginata, yari and katana all come naturally. There's surprisingly little that's truly original in martial arts, after all, it's all physics and the human body, so there's only so many ways to solve certain problems. Still impressive that he knows so much about Japanese weapons that he always has something to draw on, though
This channel is living proof, that mastery of technique will almost always trump the “tool”. It doesn’t matter what advantage your strategy has. If your opponent worked harder than you, there’s no tech that will save you.
This is true to an extent. I still think that if I was in full riot gear with a rifle I'd probably win against seki sensei armed with nothing but a toothbrush
So as someone who has spared against several different rapier wielders using long sword. Experienced users of the rapier will tend to avoid making contact with your sword at all or very little and whip it around to side where your sword is not. A lot of this is try and cover and counter the weakness that make a rapier prone to being disarmed. Their is a weakness in some experience rapier wielders that your experiment wouldn't account for. Rapier on rapier sparring is almost exclusively a point forward guard. Someone who does rapier against only other Rapier wielder, or sword systems with point forward guards, have trouble telling distance against a someone who isn't using a point forward guard. This isn't a weakness someone who has significant experience sword based martial arts that don't exclusively rely on a point forward guard. Most people at instructor level in historical rapier do have enough experience in multiply different type of sword martial arts that don't have this weakness. However it is a common weakness in rapier practitioners at an intermediate level.
"There" - Locative. Ex: He's over there "Their" - Possessive. Ex: Their friend is coming by "They're" - Contraction of "They are". Ex: They're ready to meet Learn the difference.
1:24 a dagger is also used with a Rapier, specially a parrying dagger used for defense to deflect and or control enemy weapons before counter attacking. Also Rapiers can also cut rather well through muscle making well placed draw cuts and snipes fight enders and nasty.
@@SammyRenard Oh yea, they're not much of a limb cutter but you're having a REALY bad day if you get cut by a well sharpened one. Definitely losing a few fingers from a well-placed hand snipe.
Be interesting to see him using a cut and thrust sword, not as whippy as some rapiers, stiff enough to thrust with but a bit more blade edge that can you can definitely take off a hand with.
What I love are those moments when something clicks. You see it on their faces. Almost childlike happiness. Then you see the technique change from then on. Those moments feel so good when you experience them. I love seeing others have them. I have some experience with the rapier and yet I learned something new from watching both partners. I thank you for that. A question? How different did the rapier feel from the smallsword for you? Just out of curiosity.
Considering everyone in the video handled a rapier for the first time it turned out really well, probably even better than other novices. And on the other hand you could use just about anything to pair with rapiers from daggers, torches, cloaks and even another rapier.
I like the humility and humour, the genuine exploration of a foreign weapon. The rapier creates a different shape of guard. I don't mean the weapon's hilt, to be clear, I mean the space protected by the weapon's position. A katana creates "invisible walls", it completely screens some areas from attack while inviting the opponent to try for the apparently unprotected areas. A rapier creates a cone of defence, radiating forward from the hilt. It deflects obliquely by default, and creates almost total cover at its optimum range. As Sensei discovered, contact closer to the rapier's hilt steers that defensive cone off and leaves the wielder open.
I once sparred an experienced fencer. We were in Iraq and used flyswatters in place of swords. We were mainly sparring to amuse our coworkers during our off time. What i found worked was to close distance and grapple. fencing and techniques meant for the rapier in general are weak against grappling attacks. The hard part is to close the distance. I had the most luck with throwing my weapon in such a way my opponent would have to parry it by moving his weapon out of position. My background in Japanese sword arts is very limited. I have studied Aikido for years and picked up just a little knowledge of the katana from that, and free sparring using Shinais in college. We had a club were many different people from all sorts of back grounds would get together and free spar using shinai. There was no instruction involved, just find someone and figure out what worked.
さすが関先生. Getting the hang of a weapon immediately is truly a testament to the skills he’s honed over so many years . Sukara sensei also has proved his skill and his ability to adapt in this video. Seki sensei taught him well, and sukara sensei learned well. There is one story of a samurai with a katana fighting a Spanish man with a rapier. The Spanish man thought “surly the samurai will not charge in when I extend my point.” The samurai though. “Surely this Spanish will try to block or dodge my attack.” Because neither had been trained in the art of the other, they were not prepared to deal with each other’s techniques. The samurai did not see the Spanish man extend his point, and the samurai stepped forward to strike , and cut the Spanish man down in one strike. The Spanish man died instantly. But he had stepped forward into the point of the rapier and impaled himself on it. The samurai died a few days later. This is a story I learned that was told to teach me the importance of being cautious around weapons and tactics you haven’t seen before, as they could easily catch you off guard. Seki sensei shows his wisdom and humbleness by not underestimating the rapier and expressing how he says he would be cautious at the end of the video.
That's similar to that old refrain about masters disliking fighting those new to the art, because the newbies make moves that are suicidal to someone who knows what they're doing.
@@adistan9142 TH-cam won’t let me comment the actual words to give you a simple answer. So i am forced to give you a riddle. but the object you are looking for is in the place named after the biggest South American rain forest.
One thing you guys are not really utilizing is the "Bell" guard on the rapier. Granted the one you have is plastic. But they are normally metal and may have crossguards as well. With this, they can also be used for blocking and parrying as you can dive a bit further in without having to worry about your opponent striking your hand potentially leaving room for a riposte. Other than that the "Maki" technique you mentioned also looked similar to a spainish "Destraza" technique. Love the video! - A rapier fencer
First time seeing sensei with a face guard. I don't know much about rapier either but I feel like he did another great job understanding its strengths and weaknesses. Seeing the maki technique executed in a duel so perfectly was beautiful! Great follow-up to the first one!
They made the right call to use a face guard with a rapier. One important technique any sort of fencer has is to point the tip of the weapon towards the eyes of the opponent thus making it very hard to judge the weapon's reach. This makes thrusts towards the face a key attack. If facing a katana wielder who is using a two handed grip it makes for an effective use of the reach advantage.
So while it's not on the plastic one you have as far as I can see usually rapiers(and many later era European swords) have a finger ring that you would hook your index finger in (sometimes also a thumb ring) that on top of giving you more control also makes disarming much harder also it's interesting how passive everyone was with the buckler where as most western swordsmen practiced in the style tend to be incredibly active and sometimes aggressive with it
I agree. You almost never see mention of the ring or occasionally two rings in a complex guard in fiction, but they certainly played an important role. And in the sparring matches I have seen with bucklers, they are often used more as an offensive tool than a defensive one. In Hema they would likely have paid a lot more attention to the after blows of the katana as well which would have forced the rapier to fight more cautiously.
Yeah, a buckler is better thought of as a sort of fist weapon. Its a really handy tool, you can smash it right into the opponents weapon without worry, especially with good gloves.
This rapier is very close to the real ones, the cool thing is, If you add a 30cm crossguard behind the cup, it will look like a 17th century Spanish rapier.
Tsukada-sensei mentioning how the rapier's hard to gauge depth is something is something rapier manuscripts take advantage of. That's part of the reason many stay in point forward guards. As well as because of the speed, it's necessary to be immediately able to parry. In the system of side sword (a precursor to the rapier) I took a few lessons in, they advise you to always keep your point facing the eyes of your enemy. As an artist, I notice that many stances that do this don't look good from the front view because the depth perception is so obscured by the point and blade being in line. It's so effective that drawing it as is would be confusing for someone looking at your art.
Seki Sensei is an excellent fencer with a deep understanding of the fundamentals of personal combat, and that is borne out by these demonstrations with weapons with which he is unfamiliar. Even being inexperienced with the rapier, he has great form and displays control and would, I think, prove formidable in sparring an experienced fencer. I'd be interested in seeing him experiment with other European swords (backsword/ baskethilt broadsword is a different beast compared to the rapier) and other weapons. I wonder, too, if this serise is getting more views than his others?
many rapiers had additional finger and thumb rings, as well as more encompassing guards on the hilts to prevent them being knocked/ wound out of the hand by the techniques such as those shown. great stuff loved seeing how much fun you guys had
WOW that was a good video!! Subarashi! I already am a HUGE fan of those sparring videos in particular (please keep them coming), this one was especially wonderful. I loved seeing how Seki Sensei's crushing dominance with skill shines forth with either weapon type, but it was also awesome to see Tsukada Sensei learn and adapt very quickly with the rapier. Had a great time watching this! Again, wonderful job!
This was a very good video for authors such as myself. I am a great fan of the rapier, but I believe the best weapon depends a lot on the situation. If both opponents were asked to draw their weapons before engagement then the advantage would go to the Katana. Similarly if both opponents were armored the Katana would have a significant advantage. Seki Sensei's form with a rapier was superior and his moves had fewer tells. This gave him a significant advantage when fighting with the rapier and opposing the rapier. The advantages of the rapier were largely lost with the swings which Seki Sensei easily countered. The rapier used this time was MUCH better than the one from before. The guard was more in line with what you would expect. It wasn't perfect, but it was very good.
Against a slashing weapon like katana I would use the buckler primarily to protect the hand holding the rapier. In asymmetrical duels against a heavier weapon it is a weak spot. Long daggers also work very well, but bucker would be my personal preference.
fun to watch, Seki Sensei is truly impressive. I fear it gives a slightly boosted image of the rapier: your prop seems really light, while rapiers have quite a heavy guard. Maybe it would be interesting to use the same weapon with a weighted bracelet? Also, Seki Sensei understands the basis of rapier fencing: dodging the opponent's blade before stabbing, and hiding your reach by all sorts of means (like holding your blade down), so even if he pretends to know nothing of rapier fencing he would be a very dangerous opponent. Some of the nuances he missed are: 1) don't be afraid to stab at the forearms, if you are afraid to miss your target, imagine the line your opponent's forearm should follow in order to attack you, put your point of that line and let your opponent extend his arms and stab himself. 2) The rapier is weak to hitting near the handle, but it is also strong in the same place if it manages to catch your weapon: the guard of a rapier is much bigger than with a katana, so you can catch your opponent's blade against the base of your blade and still have your hand protected, so you can control your opponent's blade (until he manages to escape) 3) seki sensei is used to katana having stopping power, so when he hits an opponent he expects the opponent to stop. That is much weaker with a rapier: I saw Seki Sensei stab Tsukada Sensei in the belly just before Tsukada Sensei would hit, and Tsukada Sensei stopped, so Seki Sensei didn't get hit. But Seki sensei did not raise his shield, so if it had been a battle (or sparring), Tsukada Sensei would not necessarily have stopped and Seki Sensei would have gotten hit at the head because he didn't raise his shield.
Rapiers have always been a fascinating item. They're so elegant and subtle, seemingly, but extremely effective in the right hands. And those hands are Seki-sensei's 😅❤ I was wondering if having the uchikatana in the left hand and a wakizashi in the right hand would possibly let you get in closer, past the extended range?
I would love to see Seki Sensei react to some European rapier techniques. European longsword and halberd techniques can be very similar to Japanese techniques, but rapier techniques can seem very strange.
To Sukara Sensei, firstly I would like to say that you are doing a great job and I appreciate your energy. My advice would be to fight more cautiously with a rapier. Place your body edge on with your leading toe forward to allow for better lunges and fewer swings. Placing your body more edge on to your opponent is also useful. A rapier is a piercing light weight weapon that can land more hits, but a hit can't be guaranteed to end a fight, so be careful of the katana's after blow. Finally, many of your attacks had tells. These are things that signal to an opponent what you intend to do.
A rapier has secondary options, usually a smaller rapier, but often a big knife with a sword catcher back... The handle is the weakness which is why the guards were made intricately for various purposes... Some even made to catch and break swords. Most are for deflecting.
Traditionally there are several items/weapons that were paired with Rapiers. Common items were the buckler like in this video, the parrying dagger, which is roughly analogous to a sharp jitte or a sai from Okinawan kobudo, and probably most common of all was a cloak. The cloak techniques would probably be similar to the some of the Asamiya Ichiden Ryu techniques using the clothing or jacket. That might be worth exploring in a future video. The youtube channel scholagladiatoria has a ton of resources on western martial arts including some historical western accounts of fights with Samurai and western opinions on Japanese weapons that were brought to Europe during the 1700's and 1800's. Apparently the English that learned about Japanese weapons were very fond of the wakizashi.
I noticed a good chunk of the times Seki Sensei won was when the opponent switched stances and had his buckler before his rapier, basically crippling the range of the rapier, and against the disarms, a lot of experienced HEMA swordsmen will pair the buckler with the handle of the blade so maybe that could help and also just generally try to keep at a range and sneak in thrusts
RE: buckler and rapier often being used together. Bucklers were popular additions to the arming sword and side-sword. The side-sword is what we usually refer to intermediary sword until we start classifying them as Rapiers, blade lengths from between 30-38 inches, and hilts getting progressively more complex. Earlier rapier treatises would just use the term 'sword' but highlights techniques that can be used with both Rapiers and Sideswords, but as swords got longer and longer, above 39 inches, we classify them as rapiers and they are more commonly paired with the dagger for the advantages of trapping a longer blade. (Also because they're easier to carry.). But against a more cut-centric weapon like a katana, it's not a bad choice. Re: the Rapier itself. Your rapier looks more like a fencing foil or epee. Typically with a Rapier you would have an internal crossguard inside the cup-hilt, which you would put your finger over, and the handle would be straight. Your rapier lacks this internal guard, and the cup hilt is more shallow. For the sake of your rapier as a practice weapon, the blade is also cylindrical like a fencing foil, which is the final evolution of the rapier, but for the commonly interpreted rapiers you can absolutely cut with them, but your ratio of thrust vs cut of course changes as the sword gets longer. I can't tell the length of your rapier, but while they start at around 40 inches or 100 cm (Due to a law imposed on shorting the length in Spain and England because they would trip bystanders) They can be quite a bit longer, though modern tournaments limit the size. What I'd really like to see is how Sensei would deal with holding a real rapier, as they are quite heavy, at around 950g-1.3kg. Very tiring in the one hand. Especially held outstretched against another Rapier. Edit: Re: buckler use. I just noticed how Sensei and the student were holding the buckler. Brace the side of it with your thumb rather than a hammer grip, and it will prevent the buckler from turning inwards. Much safer that way.
Yes, when rapiers had just a D-guard, or two siderings, then bucklers may be used, but this rapier essentially had a buckler on the sword... BTW: I recommend Hellish Quart for reference of how different European rapiers, and swords were used.
A fun new experience for sensei! Sensei and his demonstration partner figured out the rapier quickly. I'd be interested to see what sensei would do against the rapier if he was using a Jo or Bo staff. If you can find Portuguese swords that would be interesting like a Carrack's black sword. Other swords the samurai may have see are a cutlass, or a basket hilt sword. All one handed swords. Excellent video. I look forward to the next video.
Shogo desperately needs to make a collaboration happen with Matt Easton at Scholagladiatoria. Fly Shogo and Seki Sensei out to England to get a chance to look at Easton's collection of historical European weapons and do some workshops with local British HEMA groups. I think everyone would learn a lot from each other and have an amazing good time.
What he said about the rapier being at its weekest at full extension has some merit. There are a few different regional styles of rapier & two of them focus on this. The Italian style has a heavy focus on the gampling on a lunge while the Spanish school teaches to avoid using the lunge in favor of more harassing a defender by circling around & peppering him with many small cuts & thrusts.
There is an anecdote from before Sengoku in which a Spaniard and a samurai killed each other. The samurai slashed at the Spaniard, expecting him to move his sword to counter, and the Spaniard instead held his rapier steady, expecting the samurai to back down from the attack due to his point. The samurai was impaled, and the Spaniard was slashed in the neck; both died. A lot of these kinds of exchanges I think would have resulted from a katana wielder with more aggression.
One of the techniques of buckler use is to hold it extended at arms length and close to the sword. This allows you to block or divert an attack earlier and create an opening. The buckler is a weapon used for parrying and not a shield. Much like a left handed dagger.
Well, one thing you and Seki didnt get right (tho it's common, as we tend to look at bucklers as just a small shield): lack of active buckler usage. Buckler is most efficient when you use it actively, held in front of you with extended hand, not hold close to the body. It provides most coverage then, as well as gives possibility to cover the sword hand while attacking.
I wouldn't say that he didn't get it right. He won every bout, and trying to be more active with the buckler would have weakened some of the advantages he was exploiting. Mainly the range and subtlety. Presenting weapon arm forward, the buckler can only really extend so far in front, going further than he was holding it pushes your arm into close to full extension, which makes it slower to maneuver if you want to react to something your opponent does than having it only partly extended and then when an attack comes extending to where you want to place it. This definitely changes if you present buckler arm forward, but now you've lost a noticeable amount of reach unless you do a passing step or passing lunge, which are slower and have more obvious tells than just extend lunge from a weapon forward guard. It's kind of a tradeoff. The way he was doing it does make the buckler feel a bit wasted, but I can see why he'd do it the way he did if he's confident in wanting to maximise his reach advantage.
2:10 -- I hadn't realized that Seki Sensei is SO DAMN GOOD at precisely knowing distance! I now think this is one of his key talents! It explains how he's able to come up with and execute just the right techniques, even on the fly! EDIT: Maybe we're only getting the good takes, but I keep seeing him with his guard down, but he brings his sword up and exactly the right time to just get his point in! EDIT: I also note, that Seki sensei is a bit less aware of opposition attacks in the thrust, and the use of the rapier hilt as essentially another buckler. EDIT: Also, if he was more aware of hand sniping with rapier cuts, with his excellent command of distance, he would be absolutely infuriating to face with no armor and Japanese style handguards. 8:25 -- Complete corroboration of what Scholagladiatoria said about the katana user needing to close the distance on the rapier in his katana vs. rapier material, and how.
once again - big respect to you and sensei for checking out western traditions and arms. I find the perspective of the master katana user fascinating. I see sensei has adopted the low katana point stance to the rapier immediately You an sensei might be interested to know that rapiers could only be made in the west after our metalurgy had reached a certain technology - they require high quality spring tempered steel. something that japan lacked for a long time due to lack of resources. This type of steel was a requirement for the rapier to be so long and thin and light, im certain if japan had access to this type of steel before the advent of firearms you would have had longer thinner lighter (but equally durable) katana. Id love to see a theoretical concept of a japaense rapier. For what its worth I have actually done katana vs rapier/foil/epee training. I studied kendo and my GF studied fencing.. so we practiced this out - in my honest opinion... the only way to beat rapier with katana is to use excessive force to knock the rapier aside and close inside the rapiers ideal range, but its VERY difficult, the fight certainly favours the rapier user if both are equally trained, hardly surprising as the rapier is the technological evolution of western one handed and 2 handed swords. Ultimately I concur with sensei here. love and respect.
This video shows how similar the fundamentals are in Kobudo and HEMA, all that really changed are the tools. Seki Sensei was using what we call the Fool's Guard in HEMA during the first sparring session, and his counterattacks from that stance were excellent.
This is very cool, Seki Sensei grasped the weapon pretty much immeadiately and displayed his excellent knowledge of distance and timing. There were probably a few time Sukada Sensei could have caught or doubled with him if he had been a little more committed to his attacks, but they also weren't wearing full safety gear and that naturally causes some hesitation. The only criticism I can level is fighting with the point so low all the time, but that's not as important since they aren't both using rapiers. Sensei can afford to use the reach of his weapon and conceal it with the point low, but it would very likely cause both opponents to hit each other if they were both using rapiers, especially with an opponent who DOESN'T know what they're doing and just commits to a suicidal uncovered attack. It's one of the great dangers of rapier fighting. As for the use of the Buckler with the Rapier, there's some overlap but later thrusting oriented rapiers were typically used with parrying daggers. The Buckler punch he did could have easily been a counterthrust with a dagger. The function the buckler served was largely superseded by complex handguards, and the dagger was a good close range weapon that also functioned as a buckler. A Buckler is more useful when you have to encounter two headed weapons or polearms but isn't as precise at parrying a rapier as a good parrying dagger because you have the added leverage from the blade. The solution to the quick strikes from the rapier has a lot of literature in HEMA, and it's primary advantage is what Seki Sensei notes which is that it takes one moment to attack, while a cut takes two moments if it is not already chambered, even then it is slower by virtue of an indirect path of motion. You have to cover lines of attack in rapier without much information, and frequently in matched rapier duels the opponents will try to cover and leverage the other's blade much like the maki that sensei used. Rapiers will exchange these "maki" in order to counter each other, but the deeper you are on the blade the harder and less safe it is to do. The other thing that Seki Sensei did well is attacking while the other opponent attacks so they can't change their position or guard. I'm sure with like 15 minutes of demonstration of rapier specific techniques, he would be extremely difficult to fence even for an experienced rapier fighter.
Great video. You should do longsword and buckler vs katana. a) Renaissance Rapier use was not only forward/backward like modern rapier fencing. There was alot of lateral movement. The Buckler main use is to provide denial of attack opportunities by extending it. The buckler disapeared because the rapier got longer and longer. b) Most rapiers had finger placement and that helped the Grip of the weapon. This weapon was more or less a practice saber with an added rapier guard. This is why hitting the base would disarm the fencer. C) You have a video with Seki Sensei using a helmet. It's the same thing. Rapier is a great weapon, but it's not good against surprise attacks nor vs armoured people.
The usage of the rapier itself was quite good, though most European manuals have the rapier at extension and tend to rely upon lunges for attacks. Additionally, the buckler is normally kept at extension alongside the rapier to protect the hand and to block more lines of attack as a passive defense while still being able to be moved as an active defense.
One thing that is unfortunately still lost with the simulator (not the fault of Shogo or anything, I know getting a rapier in Japan is tough) is the loss of the weight and the finger-rings in the guard. Seki-sensei was able to easily disarm his opponent of the rapier because the simulator is very light and the opponent was holding it like a sabre, loose and quick. However, rapier often have rings or cups that allow the user to hold with one or two fingers over the crossguard (another feature the simulator lacked). In addition to giving you even more point control, fingering the guard also wraps your hand into the guard in a much more solid manner. His overall assessment is correct, of course. The rapier has far less blade presence and so beating it aside can and is effective (rapierists would even hold their own rapier in two hands and sweep it around like a greatsword when surrounded by enemy blades sometimes) but it would not be knocked aside so easily if it hand the weight of steel and the secure fingered grip. Overall, fantastic video as always! I truly wish as a Diestro and HEMA practitioner I could fence with Seki-sensei one day. Unlikely though that is, lol
As for what I would have done? Depends. Grappled him back, I would've been more aggressive with it, of course. Lots of very fun things could happen lol But I also fence against Kendoka and Kenjutsu practitioners with Rapier, so I have a bit of experience against Katana and often find a well placed cavazione (or half-moon / full moon thrust) is ideal. This is where you let them move your rapier offline but instead of fight them you step off line from their attack and wheel the point underneath or over them to stab them from the open side of their attack.
My understanding is that the buckler is used somewhat differently, that it should be held forward not close to the body, and is used more aggressively including striking
Covering the hand with the buckler is good advice with an arming sword or messer, or sidesword at times. But with a rapier, this brings the left shoulder in and reduces the length advantage; besides, a cup-hilt rapier already comes equipped with a mini-buckler to cover the hand! A retracted buckler is more use in this case, to deflect an incoming thrust or to receive or reinforce a bind made with the rapier to allow closing in. The katana guy seems to have figured this out!
While rapier & buckler was done, the pairing weapon most commonly associated with it is the maine gauche(a dagger with a complex hilt). This style is referred to as Rapier & Dagger in tournaments.
7:25 To note, base of the blade(close to the handle) for the rapier is actually the strong part of the blade. It just feels like the weak part of the blade to Sensei, because his two handed heavier katana weapon can over power the one handed rapier. He does explain the one hand vs two hand concept so I'm sure Sensei knows, but I don't think it was clear for the audience that might not be familiar with weapons. I wanted to clarify because one of the basics of fencing is to control your opponent's blade by attacking the part of the blade closer to the tip which is the weak side of the blade, and you want to use the stronger side(closer to the handle) to make those control movements. Also you block opponents attacks using the base of the blade(closer to the handle) because it is the stronger side.
I found surprising hear Seki-sensei call the strong of the blade the weak part, but I suppose that in context it was indeed more of a matter of terminology, due both to his point of reference being the heavier two-handed katana and possibly the language itself.
Black fencer and purple heart armory make good synthetic rapier. This is a lot closer but the lack of finger rings is weird. This is more like a straight "saber".
The comments were wrong, bucklers are generally used against slashing weapons, when rapiers became popular, slashing weapons fell out of favor in civilian situations, being relegated to the battlefield largely. As a consequence the buckler was either abandoned or replaced with a parrying dagger or main gauche which are better at defending against thrusts. But ironically the rapier and buckler is a better matchup against a katana then it’s historic counterpart, not to say that rapier and buckler never happened, it just largely didn’t make sense. Battlefield had pole arms, cavalry and many people, all of which favors weapons that have enough mass in the blade to block larger swings, as well as quickly switching between multiple opponents from any position, which is easier to do with a slash then a thrust. So a rapier will struggle, thus no need for parrying daggers Vs civilian self defense, dueling culture has cemented the rapier’s presence, and rapiers are the king when it comes to unarmored 1 vs 1 because of its reach and nimble point, and because it’s a cultural phenomenon, nearly everyone is carrying a rapier, or if they can’t afford one, a dagger. No slashing weapons, no need for a buckler.
Early rapiers, which had more cut-centric, shorter blades were used with bucklers or daggers. The late Spanish-style rapier had essentially a buckler on its sword. The problem with thrust-centric weapons is that they may get through siderings, D-guards, and glance off bucklers and still perforate you. That's why late bucklers had additional bars forge-welded on top, which would trap a rapier and could break it, or disarm someone. They're not that common in fictional media, but I assure you that they existed. You can buy reproductions too!
To help you, a rapier grip is different from a katana grip; that's why you disarmed him more easily than is usual. That said, skill matters more than the weapons.
I''ve studied HEMA for many years now, although I'm still more of a beginner in terms of rapier. From what I can see having fought with and against them, Seki-sensei has the right of it. If you can get inside it's reach, or explosively engage it's comparatively thin blade, you are much much safer than if you are standing in front of the point. I think from my experience in fencing, there's almost nothing more threatening that standing in front of someone who has the point of a rapier aimed at you. You need to find a way to push their point offline long enough for you to strike. What you can do as well with any kind of blade is angle it inside the rapier thrust. If the rapierist commits to the lunge and you get your blade inside it (ideally while pivoting away to move your body off the line of attack), you can redirect the rapier by simply holding your blade steady with only limited strength. Often rapier edges themselves weren't always very sharp either, so you could potentially trap the blade with a lightly-gloved hand once you were safe from the point.
I will say, I was half expecting Sensei to use the reverse grip to attack from below. That will instantly smack the rapier away, and then he can chase the opponent down. Overall, this is a very interesting sparring video, and I look forward to another one.
The master had the right idea, there is no need for fancy movement and just go for the fast stab. your not going to parry the much heavier katana so better to just avoid it.
One thing to keep in mind: Rapier isn’t a single sword, it’s a sword type. From Epees and the Foil you are using here to the two handed Estoc and even the Sidesword, there are many different kinds of rapiers. A smallsword is just another type, although not typical of a more traditional rapier. Think of the term “rapier” less of a single style of weapon and more like the term “longsword” which can include anything from a flamberge zweihander to a single edged messer. I’m less versed in Japanese weaponry otherwise I would make a contemporary example.
Smallswords were sometimes called "rapiers" when they were in use, so there's a lot of confusion even among English speakers as to what the correct term is. (I think most common term was just "sword", which is also true of rapiers) (and rapiers and smallswords are not English inventions, so pinning them to an English word is not necessarily correct in the first place)
There should be movie or media where a samurai travelled throughout Medieval Europe and learn how to adapt to all the weapons there and returned to Japan and surprised everyone there
Nice video thanks :). Sadly I also feel like it's a missed opportunity to see sensei first try the weapon him self and how he would fight. Then after a bit of sparring watch some proficient fighters of the weapon use them in traditional martial arts. Hear his thoughts and maybe see him trying to implement what he saw when HEMA fighters used them. But I understand that this would extend the videos quite a bit :(. This is just something I had to think about every time I see the European weapons videos. Have a pleasant holiday season
There's good reason the rapier is envisioned as a duelist's weapon. Of course, no tool is perfect; you might not want to face someone wearing full armor with a rapier
I only ever studied fencing a little bit, and stage fighting, which isn't HEMA per se. I did a couple things with the kendo club at university too, but my coordination isn't very good as a right-hander and there's no other way you learn kendo. You don't want to fully extend or retract a light, long blade (unless you have to of course). Also, since it is lighter and more maneuverable, you are always looking for angles around a heavier blade. Your biggest disadvantage is if you get caught in a bind or someone closes inside your reach, which is one reason the hand protection helps, and also one reason why I would prefer a parrying dagger to a buckler (though right-handers may feel differently, I don't know).
next suggestion: Dane axe, or 'viking' axe and shield. I actually think sensie would have a blast with the dane axe, while it looks VERY different, many katana and naginata technique will apply.
Historically the rapier is long and the rapier hits the katana swordsman first. But it takes seconds to die or faint by a stab, so that the katana swordsman rush up and cut down the rapier user before he expires. Hence the Chinese swordsman dance around and dance away before the saber-man or katana man has a chance to cut him down.
Rapiers are probably the most diverse group of European swords. Some are thick and sturdy and slow, some are thin and flimsy but very fast. I think it is valid to question whether a real life rapier that is strong enough to parry a katana would also be fast enough to do some of the moves that Seki Sensei is pulling off, or rather, I think in order to be strong enough to deflect a katana, it might lose its speed advantage over the katana.
The rapier isn't the strongest. Just the most optimized sword for dueling and streetfighting without armor. On the battlefield a broadsword with well guarded grip would be more common, sometimes one that has a handle length similar to a katana. For daily self defense, most nobles and aristocrats would probably wear a smallsword like you showed in your first video. However a sword that was commonly used for duels, self-defense, and battlefield fighting before and during the time of the rapier would be the Messer. I hope you have the chance to explore that sword on our channel soon. It might seem like it's just the European version of the Katana, but I promise it wouldn't make for a dull video.
I think some of Seki Sensei's successful hits with the rapier may not have been sufficient in a real life swordfight. Because they are thrusting weapons, they do have the same stopping power when a sharp one connects, they puncture, they do not push. A rapier MUST hit a very vital target in order to push someone back. I remember hearing an account of two swordsmen who actually both stabbed each other in the neck with rapiers, but missed the jugular and windpipe, and so were stuck together for a few minutes before they could continue their fight. And naturally, knowing when a training weapon is being realistic and when it isn't, is challenging even for modern HEMA. And in fact, even the people at the time disagreed with each other over how best to practice. George Silver in 1599 was infamous for saying that Franco-Spanish rapiers are useless and English backswords and bills are the best weapons.
the reason an 'offhand' weapon is often used with a rapier is to protect the vulnerability of being able to bat away the rapier i think the convention with a buckler is to have it extended with the rapier to block off more lines of attack than if it was withdrawn; to protect the vulnerable section of the blade as pointed out; and to obscure the position of the handle making it harder to predict attacks. do correct me if I'm mistaken
Covering the hand with the buckler is good advice with an arming sword or messer, or sidesword at times. But with a rapier, this brings the left shoulder in and reduces the length advantage; besides, a cup-hilt rapier already comes equipped with a mini-buckler to cover the hand! A retracted buckler is more use in this case, to deflect an incoming thrust or to receive or reinforce a bind made with the rapier to allow closing in. The katana guy seems to have figured this out!
Nicely done. George Silver would approve of the rapier counters. BTW you consider other weapons to try? I'd like to see Seki-sensei pick up a dedicated fighting bowie knife and see how it translates.
I've never seen someone this relaxed in a fight and having this much fun... The closest I've seen was a Sikh playing frail old man baiting someone into an attack.
A very cool video! Don't get tricked, rapiers were not weak swords, they were very heavy, weighing ~1.5kg on average (>3lb). Simply hitting them near the hilt wouldn't do much, unless you are far stronger than the person wielding it. You want either strong pushes near the hilt or light taps in the middle or near the tip to get the sword away from a direct line to your torso so you could advance. The two swords have completely different philosophies applied. With rapier you maneuver around for an easy stab or a cut while protecting yourself all the time, with katana you aim for a decisive blow that will end the fight while taking risks. Think of it like Western European vs. Japanese mentality. As I learned both, the only way to win with katana consistently requires incredible footwork. Another tip I could share for Suka-sensei (I apologise if I mispronunced the name) is that one does not need wide swings or much force to parry with tanto or wakizashi. Instead of making movements from above drawing strength from an elbow, utilise the sidearm with the tip pointed upwards and make simple rotational wrist movements left and right to deflect it and the blade will slide past you. Alternatively, one can "lock in" the elbow and the wrist and make swiping movements from a shoulder to move away already "engaged" blade but that is risky as leverage on rapiers is exceptional and a fast fighter might exploit the now widen stance. Just catch it with your wakizashi, no need to deflect with vigour if a stab is coming. Rapier is heavy and long and that actually works against it in certain ways, so a child's strength and no technique is enough.
Rapiers have had different sizes and weights, from full basket hilt covered shorter and thin blades, to mostly ornamental basket hilt setups with a crossguard and an almost square rod(or diamond-shaped blade), sharpened only some parts along the way to the tip. So I'm assuming that some used them almost as top-heavy sabers, focusing on the thrust-attacks with cuts (like from the Waithe manual). But supposedly the "right" way is a fairly heavy rod that weighs a bit less than 2kg. Which would be used to glance incoming attacks high on the blade, a bit in the same way as a heavy, stiff Chinese straight-sword. And then use the weight of the blade to stop blows and to deflect (a lot like Seki sensei does with the katana). Which does work, but it's not something I'd be comfortable with as an amateur, to be entirely honest. Even just friendly sparring with a real sword like that is rough. So I can't imagine that untrained soliders would practice that. And.. that it would make sense that 17th and 18th century rapiers tended to then be lighter thrust-swords. To the point where they would be like the one you have, more like a heavy epee than a thrust-sword. But they're supposed to be heavier, and to be top-heavy to have that specific weight-advantage in those specific plays.
I am not sure I got it right: when you mentioned sword weighting a bit less than 2kg, are you still referring to rapiers? Because I've never seen or read of a functional historical rapier that was that heavy, usually they are between 1-1.3kg. Sure, there are the heavier war rapier with broader blades like those used by Spanish cavalry in the 17th and 18th century, but I would consider swords used by mounted troops as something separate. And rapiers in general are never top-heavy, not even those with a blade profile meant for cut and thrust techniques. They're heavier and with the balance moved further than thrust-only rapiers, but not too much or they would be rendered clumsy and impractical as duelling or battlefied weapons: if cutting is meant to be the main attack, then it makes more sense to just use a sabre with a blade designed to be optimized for cuttings.
@@ROMANTIKILLER2 There are extant examples of real rapiers, that don't necessarily count as cavalry swords, that weigh as much as 4 pounds, where the blade is surprisingly heavy. But you're right that most rapiers in museums, specially the pretty ones (even if they are not dress-swords), are much lighter. And you're right - they're not practicable for anyone who doesn't specialize in using them, even if you are quite good with a sword, and perhaps are using the point for a very specific reason. And I genuinely think that choosing a longsword with the weight further back would probably make sense even for an incredibly good swordsman, even if you only were thrusting (because you're ...probably good with the longsword, too). Or like you say, just use a heavy saber - it also does have a point, after all (and was a popular cavalry sword, probably because of the weight distribution and the control you have with it). So it makes complete sense that the thrusting swords developed the way they did. Holding even a 1,3kg sword that won't rest well in the hand while on horseback won't make sense, either, right.. Really, it would just not make sense with a one-handed sword like that on horseback, period. You'd just destroy your wrist, and have very little control. But. There does exist heavy rapiers, and they were used for some sort of reason. And... having practiced a bit with a heavy Chinese 剑, a straight sword, non-functional handguard, etc., with pretty much even thickness (that then makes it a bit top-heavy) - there are techniques you can do with that that won't work on a handguard-less longsword. So I think that that is the usage scenario for it. That you'd move in and meet the cutting-blade on a thrust, in a way that would only work on a longsword (safely) with a handguard (even two-handed). And even with the weight, you have to really hit perfectly. At the same time - this is also the principle behind the japanese longswords with slight curves, or no curves. It's not something you do every time - but because of the weight distribution you could, if you're really good, meet an incoming blade higher, and use the weight of the blade to deflect it. So it's not like that usage scenario for a heavy rapier, on foot, doesn't exist.
I really want Seki Sensei and a HEMA instructor to spar. I feel like both could learn so much from eachother ♡
He basically figured out how Rob Childs also uses rapier in minutes. That's kinda amazing tbh.
Rob Childs technique is not complex, it's precise. It is the most basic way to use a rapier, but just done to such a fine and slick point that he doesn't need a wide variety of techniques to cover him. It's just a very simple approach with a lot of experience, talent, and diligence.
Ergo, in my opinion, it's not surprising he would devise a similar approach. It still speaks highly of his understanding of swordsmanship, but I'm pretty sure Rob Childs figured out how to use the rapier the way he does in minutes too lol.
He's an MOA fencer, so he already had a fantastic base to work from and the tools he needed to make his simple system work were already engrained in him.
You just described every master martial artist and pro fighter on the planet...
Since it's primarily a thrusting weapon, poking and stabbing techniques from bo, jo, naginata, yari and katana all come naturally. There's surprisingly little that's truly original in martial arts, after all, it's all physics and the human body, so there's only so many ways to solve certain problems. Still impressive that he knows so much about Japanese weapons that he always has something to draw on, though
Being got at using a sharp metal stick makes you good at sharp metal stick
This channel is living proof, that mastery of technique will almost always trump the “tool”. It doesn’t matter what advantage your strategy has. If your opponent worked harder than you, there’s no tech that will save you.
This is true to an extent. I still think that if I was in full riot gear with a rifle I'd probably win against seki sensei armed with nothing but a toothbrush
@@mobpriv - Until he flipped you like a burger patty with it.
So as someone who has spared against several different rapier wielders using long sword. Experienced users of the rapier will tend to avoid making contact with your sword at all or very little and whip it around to side where your sword is not. A lot of this is try and cover and counter the weakness that make a rapier prone to being disarmed. Their is a weakness in some experience rapier wielders that your experiment wouldn't account for. Rapier on rapier sparring is almost exclusively a point forward guard. Someone who does rapier against only other Rapier wielder, or sword systems with point forward guards, have trouble telling distance against a someone who isn't using a point forward guard. This isn't a weakness someone who has significant experience sword based martial arts that don't exclusively rely on a point forward guard. Most people at instructor level in historical rapier do have enough experience in multiply different type of sword martial arts that don't have this weakness. However it is a common weakness in rapier practitioners at an intermediate level.
"There" - Locative. Ex: He's over there
"Their" - Possessive. Ex: Their friend is coming by
"They're" - Contraction of "They are". Ex: They're ready to meet
Learn the difference.
multiple, not multiply
@@maiorano84 seriously? you realize that typos happen right?
1:24 a dagger is also used with a Rapier, specially a parrying dagger used for defense to deflect and or control enemy weapons before counter attacking. Also
Rapiers can also cut rather well through muscle making well placed draw cuts and snipes fight enders and nasty.
you're telling me those things are sharp and not just pointy?
@@SammyRenard Oh yea, they're not much of a limb cutter but you're having a REALY bad day if you get cut by a well sharpened one. Definitely losing a few fingers from a well-placed hand snipe.
@@Amadeo790 dang
Be interesting to see him using a cut and thrust sword, not as whippy as some rapiers, stiff enough to thrust with but a bit more blade edge that can you can definitely take off a hand with.
@@ArcticGator That would be an interesting practice. He did a video with a long sword a few months back that was pretty good.
Very glad to see you guys are taking eye protection with the seriousness it deserves.
What I love are those moments when something clicks. You see it on their faces. Almost childlike happiness. Then you see the technique change from then on. Those moments feel so good when you experience them. I love seeing others have them. I have some experience with the rapier and yet I learned something new from watching both partners. I thank you for that. A question? How different did the rapier feel from the smallsword for you? Just out of curiosity.
Considering everyone in the video handled a rapier for the first time it turned out really well, probably even better than other novices. And on the other hand you could use just about anything to pair with rapiers from daggers, torches, cloaks and even another rapier.
I like the humility and humour, the genuine exploration of a foreign weapon.
The rapier creates a different shape of guard. I don't mean the weapon's hilt, to be clear, I mean the space protected by the weapon's position. A katana creates "invisible walls", it completely screens some areas from attack while inviting the opponent to try for the apparently unprotected areas.
A rapier creates a cone of defence, radiating forward from the hilt. It deflects obliquely by default, and creates almost total cover at its optimum range. As Sensei discovered, contact closer to the rapier's hilt steers that defensive cone off and leaves the wielder open.
I once sparred an experienced fencer. We were in Iraq and used flyswatters in place of swords. We were mainly sparring to amuse our coworkers during our off time. What i found worked was to close distance and grapple. fencing and techniques meant for the rapier in general are weak against grappling attacks. The hard part is to close the distance. I had the most luck with throwing my weapon in such a way my opponent would have to parry it by moving his weapon out of position.
My background in Japanese sword arts is very limited. I have studied Aikido for years and picked up just a little knowledge of the katana from that, and free sparring using Shinais in college. We had a club were many different people from all sorts of back grounds would get together and free spar using shinai. There was no instruction involved, just find someone and figure out what worked.
さすが関先生. Getting the hang of a weapon immediately is truly a testament to the skills he’s honed over so many years .
Sukara sensei also has proved his skill and his ability to adapt in this video. Seki sensei taught him well, and sukara sensei learned well.
There is one story of a samurai with a katana fighting a Spanish man with a rapier.
The Spanish man thought “surly the samurai will not charge in when I extend my point.”
The samurai though. “Surely this Spanish will try to block or dodge my attack.”
Because neither had been trained in the art of the other, they were not prepared to deal with each other’s techniques.
The samurai did not see the Spanish man extend his point, and the samurai stepped forward to strike , and cut the Spanish man down in one strike. The Spanish man died instantly. But he had stepped forward into the point of the rapier and impaled himself on it. The samurai died a few days later.
This is a story I learned that was told to teach me the importance of being cautious around weapons and tactics you haven’t seen before, as they could easily catch you off guard.
Seki sensei shows his wisdom and humbleness by not underestimating the rapier and expressing how he says he would be cautious at the end of the video.
Where does he buy the props from?
@ that particular item looks to be off Amazon.
“Polypropylene 40 inch rapier training sword” is what it seems to be titled as.
That's similar to that old refrain about masters disliking fighting those new to the art, because the newbies make moves that are suicidal to someone who knows what they're doing.
@@adistan9142 it looks like it’s on t amazon.
@@adistan9142 TH-cam won’t let me comment the actual words to give you a simple answer. So i am forced to give you a riddle.
but the object you are looking for is in the place named after the biggest South American rain forest.
One thing you guys are not really utilizing is the "Bell" guard on the rapier. Granted the one you have is plastic. But they are normally metal and may have crossguards as well. With this, they can also be used for blocking and parrying as you can dive a bit further in without having to worry about your opponent striking your hand potentially leaving room for a riposte. Other than that the "Maki" technique you mentioned also looked similar to a spainish "Destraza" technique. Love the video! - A rapier fencer
I am so proud of my sensei's, they are amazing.
Seki sensei timing is crazy accurate
First time seeing sensei with a face guard. I don't know much about rapier either but I feel like he did another great job understanding its strengths and weaknesses. Seeing the maki technique executed in a duel so perfectly was beautiful! Great follow-up to the first one!
They made the right call to use a face guard with a rapier. One important technique any sort of fencer has is to point the tip of the weapon towards the eyes of the opponent thus making it very hard to judge the weapon's reach. This makes thrusts towards the face a key attack. If facing a katana wielder who is using a two handed grip it makes for an effective use of the reach advantage.
It's nice to see Seki Sensei smiling so much, he looked like he was really enjoying himself on this one.
So while it's not on the plastic one you have as far as I can see usually rapiers(and many later era European swords) have a finger ring that you would hook your index finger in (sometimes also a thumb ring) that on top of giving you more control also makes disarming much harder also it's interesting how passive everyone was with the buckler where as most western swordsmen practiced in the style tend to be incredibly active and sometimes aggressive with it
I agree. You almost never see mention of the ring or occasionally two rings in a complex guard in fiction, but they certainly played an important role. And in the sparring matches I have seen with bucklers, they are often used more as an offensive tool than a defensive one. In Hema they would likely have paid a lot more attention to the after blows of the katana as well which would have forced the rapier to fight more cautiously.
Yeah, a buckler is better thought of as a sort of fist weapon. Its a really handy tool, you can smash it right into the opponents weapon without worry, especially with good gloves.
Seki Sensei has great knowledge🙏.
This rapier is very close to the real ones, the cool thing is, If you add a 30cm crossguard behind the cup, it will look like a 17th century Spanish rapier.
Tsukada-sensei mentioning how the rapier's hard to gauge depth is something is something rapier manuscripts take advantage of. That's part of the reason many stay in point forward guards. As well as because of the speed, it's necessary to be immediately able to parry. In the system of side sword (a precursor to the rapier) I took a few lessons in, they advise you to always keep your point facing the eyes of your enemy. As an artist, I notice that many stances that do this don't look good from the front view because the depth perception is so obscured by the point and blade being in line. It's so effective that drawing it as is would be confusing for someone looking at your art.
This is called “The hidden knife technique”, as the blade and distance appeared hidden to the opponent.
Seki Sensei is an excellent fencer with a deep understanding of the fundamentals of personal combat, and that is borne out by these demonstrations with weapons with which he is unfamiliar. Even being inexperienced with the rapier, he has great form and displays control and would, I think, prove formidable in sparring an experienced fencer. I'd be interested in seeing him experiment with other European swords (backsword/ baskethilt broadsword is a different beast compared to the rapier) and other weapons.
I wonder, too, if this serise is getting more views than his others?
many rapiers had additional finger and thumb rings, as well as more encompassing guards on the hilts to prevent them being knocked/ wound out of the hand by the techniques such as those shown. great stuff loved seeing how much fun you guys had
It is great to see a Sensei of his skill level show a willingness to learn and to say that they do not know.
Thanks for sharing this with us.
WOW that was a good video!! Subarashi!
I already am a HUGE fan of those sparring videos in particular (please keep them coming), this one was especially wonderful.
I loved seeing how Seki Sensei's crushing dominance with skill shines forth with either weapon type, but it was also awesome to see Tsukada Sensei learn and adapt very quickly with the rapier.
Had a great time watching this! Again, wonderful job!
Probably my favorite on the series so far! It is amazing how quickly Sensei could figure out the strengths & weaknesses then emoloy them.
This was a very good video for authors such as myself.
I am a great fan of the rapier, but I believe the best weapon depends a lot on the situation. If both opponents were asked to draw their weapons before engagement then the advantage would go to the Katana. Similarly if both opponents were armored the Katana would have a significant advantage. Seki Sensei's form with a rapier was superior and his moves had fewer tells. This gave him a significant advantage when fighting with the rapier and opposing the rapier. The advantages of the rapier were largely lost with the swings which Seki Sensei easily countered.
The rapier used this time was MUCH better than the one from before. The guard was more in line with what you would expect. It wasn't perfect, but it was very good.
どうもありがとうございました。
It’s a pleasure seeing masters at work.
Seeing seki-sensei immediately adopt the fools guard was so sick!!!
Against a slashing weapon like katana I would use the buckler primarily to protect the hand holding the rapier. In asymmetrical duels against a heavier weapon it is a weak spot. Long daggers also work very well, but bucker would be my personal preference.
fun to watch, Seki Sensei is truly impressive. I fear it gives a slightly boosted image of the rapier: your prop seems really light, while rapiers have quite a heavy guard. Maybe it would be interesting to use the same weapon with a weighted bracelet?
Also, Seki Sensei understands the basis of rapier fencing: dodging the opponent's blade before stabbing, and hiding your reach by all sorts of means (like holding your blade down), so even if he pretends to know nothing of rapier fencing he would be a very dangerous opponent.
Some of the nuances he missed are: 1) don't be afraid to stab at the forearms, if you are afraid to miss your target, imagine the line your opponent's forearm should follow in order to attack you, put your point of that line and let your opponent extend his arms and stab himself.
2) The rapier is weak to hitting near the handle, but it is also strong in the same place if it manages to catch your weapon: the guard of a rapier is much bigger than with a katana, so you can catch your opponent's blade against the base of your blade and still have your hand protected, so you can control your opponent's blade (until he manages to escape)
3) seki sensei is used to katana having stopping power, so when he hits an opponent he expects the opponent to stop. That is much weaker with a rapier: I saw Seki Sensei stab Tsukada Sensei in the belly just before Tsukada Sensei would hit, and Tsukada Sensei stopped, so Seki Sensei didn't get hit. But Seki sensei did not raise his shield, so if it had been a battle (or sparring), Tsukada Sensei would not necessarily have stopped and Seki Sensei would have gotten hit at the head because he didn't raise his shield.
Rapiers have always been a fascinating item. They're so elegant and subtle, seemingly, but extremely effective in the right hands.
And those hands are Seki-sensei's 😅❤
I was wondering if having the uchikatana in the left hand and a wakizashi in the right hand would possibly let you get in closer, past the extended range?
Fun video! Looking forward to all the reaction videos ;)
Yeah, those are going to be great.
I would love to see Seki Sensei react to some European rapier techniques. European longsword and halberd techniques can be very similar to Japanese techniques, but rapier techniques can seem very strange.
To Sukara Sensei, firstly I would like to say that you are doing a great job and I appreciate your energy.
My advice would be to fight more cautiously with a rapier. Place your body edge on with your leading toe forward to allow for better lunges and fewer swings. Placing your body more edge on to your opponent is also useful. A rapier is a piercing light weight weapon that can land more hits, but a hit can't be guaranteed to end a fight, so be careful of the katana's after blow. Finally, many of your attacks had tells. These are things that signal to an opponent what you intend to do.
Non è solamente scherma! ma arte in movimento, nella sua forma più pura
A rapier has secondary options, usually a smaller rapier, but often a big knife with a sword catcher back... The handle is the weakness which is why the guards were made intricately for various purposes... Some even made to catch and break swords. Most are for deflecting.
Traditionally there are several items/weapons that were paired with Rapiers. Common items were the buckler like in this video, the parrying dagger, which is roughly analogous to a sharp jitte or a sai from Okinawan kobudo, and probably most common of all was a cloak. The cloak techniques would probably be similar to the some of the Asamiya Ichiden Ryu techniques using the clothing or jacket. That might be worth exploring in a future video.
The youtube channel scholagladiatoria has a ton of resources on western martial arts including some historical western accounts of fights with Samurai and western opinions on Japanese weapons that were brought to Europe during the 1700's and 1800's. Apparently the English that learned about Japanese weapons were very fond of the wakizashi.
I recommend to look fencing at the olympic games. Its extremely fast and I like watching it!
I noticed a good chunk of the times Seki Sensei won was when the opponent switched stances and had his buckler before his rapier, basically crippling the range of the rapier, and against the disarms, a lot of experienced HEMA swordsmen will pair the buckler with the handle of the blade so maybe that could help and also just generally try to keep at a range and sneak in thrusts
RE: buckler and rapier often being used together.
Bucklers were popular additions to the arming sword and side-sword. The side-sword is what we usually refer to intermediary sword until we start classifying them as Rapiers, blade lengths from between 30-38 inches, and hilts getting progressively more complex. Earlier rapier treatises would just use the term 'sword' but highlights techniques that can be used with both Rapiers and Sideswords, but as swords got longer and longer, above 39 inches, we classify them as rapiers and they are more commonly paired with the dagger for the advantages of trapping a longer blade. (Also because they're easier to carry.). But against a more cut-centric weapon like a katana, it's not a bad choice.
Re: the Rapier itself.
Your rapier looks more like a fencing foil or epee. Typically with a Rapier you would have an internal crossguard inside the cup-hilt, which you would put your finger over, and the handle would be straight. Your rapier lacks this internal guard, and the cup hilt is more shallow. For the sake of your rapier as a practice weapon, the blade is also cylindrical like a fencing foil, which is the final evolution of the rapier, but for the commonly interpreted rapiers you can absolutely cut with them, but your ratio of thrust vs cut of course changes as the sword gets longer.
I can't tell the length of your rapier, but while they start at around 40 inches or 100 cm (Due to a law imposed on shorting the length in Spain and England because they would trip bystanders) They can be quite a bit longer, though modern tournaments limit the size. What I'd really like to see is how Sensei would deal with holding a real rapier, as they are quite heavy, at around 950g-1.3kg. Very tiring in the one hand. Especially held outstretched against another Rapier.
Edit:
Re: buckler use.
I just noticed how Sensei and the student were holding the buckler. Brace the side of it with your thumb rather than a hammer grip, and it will prevent the buckler from turning inwards. Much safer that way.
Yes, when rapiers had just a D-guard, or two siderings, then bucklers may be used, but this rapier essentially had a buckler on the sword...
BTW: I recommend Hellish Quart for reference of how different European rapiers, and swords were used.
A fun new experience for sensei!
Sensei and his demonstration partner figured out the rapier quickly.
I'd be interested to see what sensei would do against the rapier if he was using a Jo or Bo staff.
If you can find Portuguese swords that would be interesting like a Carrack's black sword. Other swords the samurai may have see are a cutlass, or a basket hilt sword. All one handed swords.
Excellent video. I look forward to the next video.
Shogo desperately needs to make a collaboration happen with Matt Easton at Scholagladiatoria. Fly Shogo and Seki Sensei out to England to get a chance to look at Easton's collection of historical European weapons and do some workshops with local British HEMA groups. I think everyone would learn a lot from each other and have an amazing good time.
The Maki wind Sensei pulled off against the rapier is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
IT WAS SO COOL!!!
What he said about the rapier being at its weekest at full extension has some merit.
There are a few different regional styles of rapier & two of them focus on this.
The Italian style has a heavy focus on the gampling on a lunge while the Spanish school teaches to avoid using the lunge in favor of more harassing a defender by circling around & peppering him with many small cuts & thrusts.
With the rapier you keep it pointing at your opponents face near full extension and use your legs to lunge.
There is an anecdote from before Sengoku in which a Spaniard and a samurai killed each other. The samurai slashed at the Spaniard, expecting him to move his sword to counter, and the Spaniard instead held his rapier steady, expecting the samurai to back down from the attack due to his point. The samurai was impaled, and the Spaniard was slashed in the neck; both died.
A lot of these kinds of exchanges I think would have resulted from a katana wielder with more aggression.
One of the techniques of buckler use is to hold it extended at arms length and close to the sword. This allows you to block or divert an attack earlier and create an opening. The buckler is a weapon used for parrying and not a shield. Much like a left handed dagger.
Thank you for your videos.
Well, one thing you and Seki didnt get right (tho it's common, as we tend to look at bucklers as just a small shield): lack of active buckler usage. Buckler is most efficient when you use it actively, held in front of you with extended hand, not hold close to the body. It provides most coverage then, as well as gives possibility to cover the sword hand while attacking.
I wouldn't say that he didn't get it right. He won every bout, and trying to be more active with the buckler would have weakened some of the advantages he was exploiting. Mainly the range and subtlety.
Presenting weapon arm forward, the buckler can only really extend so far in front, going further than he was holding it pushes your arm into close to full extension, which makes it slower to maneuver if you want to react to something your opponent does than having it only partly extended and then when an attack comes extending to where you want to place it.
This definitely changes if you present buckler arm forward, but now you've lost a noticeable amount of reach unless you do a passing step or passing lunge, which are slower and have more obvious tells than just extend lunge from a weapon forward guard. It's kind of a tradeoff. The way he was doing it does make the buckler feel a bit wasted, but I can see why he'd do it the way he did if he's confident in wanting to maximise his reach advantage.
Revenge of the Rapier 2 - Get one of Japan Olympic fencing team guys to fight Seki Sensei! 😆
These are great and it is fascinating to watch skilled swordsmen experiment with unknown tools. Maybe you could look at messers next? Very impressive!
2:10 -- I hadn't realized that Seki Sensei is SO DAMN GOOD at precisely knowing distance! I now think this is one of his key talents! It explains how he's able to come up with and execute just the right techniques, even on the fly! EDIT: Maybe we're only getting the good takes, but I keep seeing him with his guard down, but he brings his sword up and exactly the right time to just get his point in! EDIT: I also note, that Seki sensei is a bit less aware of opposition attacks in the thrust, and the use of the rapier hilt as essentially another buckler. EDIT: Also, if he was more aware of hand sniping with rapier cuts, with his excellent command of distance, he would be absolutely infuriating to face with no armor and Japanese style handguards. 8:25 -- Complete corroboration of what Scholagladiatoria said about the katana user needing to close the distance on the rapier in his katana vs. rapier material, and how.
once again - big respect to you and sensei for checking out western traditions and arms. I find the perspective of the master katana user fascinating.
I see sensei has adopted the low katana point stance to the rapier immediately
You an sensei might be interested to know that rapiers could only be made in the west after our metalurgy had reached a certain technology - they require high quality spring tempered steel. something that japan lacked for a long time due to lack of resources. This type of steel was a requirement for the rapier to be so long and thin and light, im certain if japan had access to this type of steel before the advent of firearms you would have had longer thinner lighter (but equally durable) katana.
Id love to see a theoretical concept of a japaense rapier.
For what its worth I have actually done katana vs rapier/foil/epee training. I studied kendo and my GF studied fencing.. so we practiced this out - in my honest opinion... the only way to beat rapier with katana is to use excessive force to knock the rapier aside and close inside the rapiers ideal range, but its VERY difficult, the fight certainly favours the rapier user if both are equally trained, hardly surprising as the rapier is the technological evolution of western one handed and 2 handed swords. Ultimately I concur with sensei here.
love and respect.
This video shows how similar the fundamentals are in Kobudo and HEMA, all that really changed are the tools. Seki Sensei was using what we call the Fool's Guard in HEMA during the first sparring session, and his counterattacks from that stance were excellent.
This is very cool, Seki Sensei grasped the weapon pretty much immeadiately and displayed his excellent knowledge of distance and timing. There were probably a few time Sukada Sensei could have caught or doubled with him if he had been a little more committed to his attacks, but they also weren't wearing full safety gear and that naturally causes some hesitation. The only criticism I can level is fighting with the point so low all the time, but that's not as important since they aren't both using rapiers. Sensei can afford to use the reach of his weapon and conceal it with the point low, but it would very likely cause both opponents to hit each other if they were both using rapiers, especially with an opponent who DOESN'T know what they're doing and just commits to a suicidal uncovered attack. It's one of the great dangers of rapier fighting.
As for the use of the Buckler with the Rapier, there's some overlap but later thrusting oriented rapiers were typically used with parrying daggers. The Buckler punch he did could have easily been a counterthrust with a dagger. The function the buckler served was largely superseded by complex handguards, and the dagger was a good close range weapon that also functioned as a buckler. A Buckler is more useful when you have to encounter two headed weapons or polearms but isn't as precise at parrying a rapier as a good parrying dagger because you have the added leverage from the blade.
The solution to the quick strikes from the rapier has a lot of literature in HEMA, and it's primary advantage is what Seki Sensei notes which is that it takes one moment to attack, while a cut takes two moments if it is not already chambered, even then it is slower by virtue of an indirect path of motion. You have to cover lines of attack in rapier without much information, and frequently in matched rapier duels the opponents will try to cover and leverage the other's blade much like the maki that sensei used. Rapiers will exchange these "maki" in order to counter each other, but the deeper you are on the blade the harder and less safe it is to do. The other thing that Seki Sensei did well is attacking while the other opponent attacks so they can't change their position or guard. I'm sure with like 15 minutes of demonstration of rapier specific techniques, he would be extremely difficult to fence even for an experienced rapier fighter.
Great video. You should do longsword and buckler vs katana.
a) Renaissance Rapier use was not only forward/backward like modern rapier fencing. There was alot of lateral movement. The Buckler main use is to provide denial of attack opportunities by extending it. The buckler disapeared because the rapier got longer and longer.
b) Most rapiers had finger placement and that helped the Grip of the weapon. This weapon was more or less a practice saber with an added rapier guard. This is why hitting the base would disarm the fencer.
C) You have a video with Seki Sensei using a helmet. It's the same thing.
Rapier is a great weapon, but it's not good against surprise attacks nor vs armoured people.
Great!
The usage of the rapier itself was quite good, though most European manuals have the rapier at extension and tend to rely upon lunges for attacks.
Additionally, the buckler is normally kept at extension alongside the rapier to protect the hand and to block more lines of attack as a passive defense while still being able to be moved as an active defense.
One thing that is unfortunately still lost with the simulator (not the fault of Shogo or anything, I know getting a rapier in Japan is tough) is the loss of the weight and the finger-rings in the guard.
Seki-sensei was able to easily disarm his opponent of the rapier because the simulator is very light and the opponent was holding it like a sabre, loose and quick. However, rapier often have rings or cups that allow the user to hold with one or two fingers over the crossguard (another feature the simulator lacked). In addition to giving you even more point control, fingering the guard also wraps your hand into the guard in a much more solid manner.
His overall assessment is correct, of course. The rapier has far less blade presence and so beating it aside can and is effective (rapierists would even hold their own rapier in two hands and sweep it around like a greatsword when surrounded by enemy blades sometimes) but it would not be knocked aside so easily if it hand the weight of steel and the secure fingered grip.
Overall, fantastic video as always! I truly wish as a Diestro and HEMA practitioner I could fence with Seki-sensei one day. Unlikely though that is, lol
As for what I would have done? Depends. Grappled him back, I would've been more aggressive with it, of course. Lots of very fun things could happen lol
But I also fence against Kendoka and Kenjutsu practitioners with Rapier, so I have a bit of experience against Katana and often find a well placed cavazione (or half-moon / full moon thrust) is ideal. This is where you let them move your rapier offline but instead of fight them you step off line from their attack and wheel the point underneath or over them to stab them from the open side of their attack.
My understanding is that the buckler is used somewhat differently, that it should be held forward not close to the body, and is used more aggressively including striking
Covering the hand with the buckler is good advice with an arming sword or messer, or sidesword at times. But with a rapier, this brings the left shoulder in and reduces the length advantage; besides, a cup-hilt rapier already comes equipped with a mini-buckler to cover the hand! A retracted buckler is more use in this case, to deflect an incoming thrust or to receive or reinforce a bind made with the rapier to allow closing in. The katana guy seems to have figured this out!
While rapier & buckler was done, the pairing weapon most commonly associated with it is the maine gauche(a dagger with a complex hilt).
This style is referred to as Rapier & Dagger in tournaments.
7:25 To note, base of the blade(close to the handle) for the rapier is actually the strong part of the blade. It just feels like the weak part of the blade to Sensei, because his two handed heavier katana weapon can over power the one handed rapier. He does explain the one hand vs two hand concept so I'm sure Sensei knows, but I don't think it was clear for the audience that might not be familiar with weapons.
I wanted to clarify because one of the basics of fencing is to control your opponent's blade by attacking the part of the blade closer to the tip which is the weak side of the blade, and you want to use the stronger side(closer to the handle) to make those control movements. Also you block opponents attacks using the base of the blade(closer to the handle) because it is the stronger side.
I found surprising hear Seki-sensei call the strong of the blade the weak part, but I suppose that in context it was indeed more of a matter of terminology, due both to his point of reference being the heavier two-handed katana and possibly the language itself.
Black fencer and purple heart armory make good synthetic rapier. This is a lot closer but the lack of finger rings is weird. This is more like a straight "saber".
The comments were wrong, bucklers are generally used against slashing weapons, when rapiers became popular, slashing weapons fell out of favor in civilian situations, being relegated to the battlefield largely.
As a consequence the buckler was either abandoned or replaced with a parrying dagger or main gauche which are better at defending against thrusts.
But ironically the rapier and buckler is a better matchup against a katana then it’s historic counterpart, not to say that rapier and buckler never happened, it just largely didn’t make sense.
Battlefield had pole arms, cavalry and many people, all of which favors weapons that have enough mass in the blade to block larger swings, as well as quickly switching between multiple opponents from any position, which is easier to do with a slash then a thrust. So a rapier will struggle, thus no need for parrying daggers
Vs civilian self defense, dueling culture has cemented the rapier’s presence, and rapiers are the king when it comes to unarmored 1 vs 1 because of its reach and nimble point, and because it’s a cultural phenomenon, nearly everyone is carrying a rapier, or if they can’t afford one, a dagger. No slashing weapons, no need for a buckler.
Early rapiers, which had more cut-centric, shorter blades were used with bucklers or daggers. The late Spanish-style rapier had essentially a buckler on its sword.
The problem with thrust-centric weapons is that they may get through siderings, D-guards, and glance off bucklers and still perforate you. That's why late bucklers had additional bars forge-welded on top, which would trap a rapier and could break it, or disarm someone. They're not that common in fictional media, but I assure you that they existed. You can buy reproductions too!
Good gravy---imagine a crossover between this channel and Shadiversity!
To help you, a rapier grip is different from a katana grip; that's why you disarmed him more easily than is usual.
That said, skill matters more than the weapons.
I''ve studied HEMA for many years now, although I'm still more of a beginner in terms of rapier. From what I can see having fought with and against them, Seki-sensei has the right of it. If you can get inside it's reach, or explosively engage it's comparatively thin blade, you are much much safer than if you are standing in front of the point. I think from my experience in fencing, there's almost nothing more threatening that standing in front of someone who has the point of a rapier aimed at you. You need to find a way to push their point offline long enough for you to strike.
What you can do as well with any kind of blade is angle it inside the rapier thrust. If the rapierist commits to the lunge and you get your blade inside it (ideally while pivoting away to move your body off the line of attack), you can redirect the rapier by simply holding your blade steady with only limited strength. Often rapier edges themselves weren't always very sharp either, so you could potentially trap the blade with a lightly-gloved hand once you were safe from the point.
Delightful!
Seki Sensei IN SPACE!
Beam Katana vs Heat Hawk video soon tm
I will say, I was half expecting Sensei to use the reverse grip to attack from below. That will instantly smack the rapier away, and then he can chase the opponent down.
Overall, this is a very interesting sparring video, and I look forward to another one.
I do feel that part of the younger guys problem is that he isn't as willing to hit hard. There are a few times he pulls back right before hitting.
The master had the right idea, there is no need for fancy movement and just go for the fast stab. your not going to parry the much heavier katana so better to just avoid it.
You can really tell master and apprentice here. He is very VERY hard to get an attack on.
One thing to keep in mind: Rapier isn’t a single sword, it’s a sword type.
From Epees and the Foil you are using here to the two handed Estoc and even the Sidesword, there are many different kinds of rapiers. A smallsword is just another type, although not typical of a more traditional rapier.
Think of the term “rapier” less of a single style of weapon and more like the term “longsword” which can include anything from a flamberge zweihander to a single edged messer. I’m less versed in Japanese weaponry otherwise I would make a contemporary example.
Smallswords were sometimes called "rapiers" when they were in use, so there's a lot of confusion even among English speakers as to what the correct term is. (I think most common term was just "sword", which is also true of rapiers) (and rapiers and smallswords are not English inventions, so pinning them to an English word is not necessarily correct in the first place)
There should be movie or media where a samurai travelled throughout Medieval Europe and learn how to adapt to all the weapons there and returned to Japan and surprised everyone there
My new years wish is that somehow, Seki Sensei and Skallagrim colab some day!
Would be interesting to see Seki Sensei using a swordbreaker for his off-hand
Nice video thanks :). Sadly I also feel like it's a missed opportunity to see sensei first try the weapon him self and how he would fight. Then after a bit of sparring watch some proficient fighters of the weapon use them in traditional martial arts. Hear his thoughts and maybe see him trying to implement what he saw when HEMA fighters used them.
But I understand that this would extend the videos quite a bit :(. This is just something I had to think about every time I see the European weapons videos.
Have a pleasant holiday season
There's good reason the rapier is envisioned as a duelist's weapon. Of course, no tool is perfect; you might not want to face someone wearing full armor with a rapier
I only ever studied fencing a little bit, and stage fighting, which isn't HEMA per se. I did a couple things with the kendo club at university too, but my coordination isn't very good as a right-hander and there's no other way you learn kendo.
You don't want to fully extend or retract a light, long blade (unless you have to of course). Also, since it is lighter and more maneuverable, you are always looking for angles around a heavier blade. Your biggest disadvantage is if you get caught in a bind or someone closes inside your reach, which is one reason the hand protection helps, and also one reason why I would prefer a parrying dagger to a buckler (though right-handers may feel differently, I don't know).
next suggestion: Dane axe, or 'viking' axe and shield. I actually think sensie would have a blast with the dane axe, while it looks VERY different, many katana and naginata technique will apply.
Awesome video, please try sabres next.
Excellent video
Και τι πρέπει να κάνω Δάσκαλε ως να σταθώ δίπλα σου ισάξια… 🙏🏻
Historically the rapier is long and the rapier hits the katana swordsman first. But it takes seconds to die or faint by a stab, so that the katana swordsman rush up and cut down the rapier user before he expires. Hence the Chinese swordsman dance around and dance away before the saber-man or katana man has a chance to cut him down.
Rapiers are probably the most diverse group of European swords. Some are thick and sturdy and slow, some are thin and flimsy but very fast. I think it is valid to question whether a real life rapier that is strong enough to parry a katana would also be fast enough to do some of the moves that Seki Sensei is pulling off, or rather, I think in order to be strong enough to deflect a katana, it might lose its speed advantage over the katana.
The rapier isn't the strongest. Just the most optimized sword for dueling and streetfighting without armor. On the battlefield a broadsword with well guarded grip would be more common, sometimes one that has a handle length similar to a katana. For daily self defense, most nobles and aristocrats would probably wear a smallsword like you showed in your first video.
However a sword that was commonly used for duels, self-defense, and battlefield fighting before and during the time of the rapier would be the Messer. I hope you have the chance to explore that sword on our channel soon. It might seem like it's just the European version of the Katana, but I promise it wouldn't make for a dull video.
I think some of Seki Sensei's successful hits with the rapier may not have been sufficient in a real life swordfight. Because they are thrusting weapons, they do have the same stopping power when a sharp one connects, they puncture, they do not push. A rapier MUST hit a very vital target in order to push someone back. I remember hearing an account of two swordsmen who actually both stabbed each other in the neck with rapiers, but missed the jugular and windpipe, and so were stuck together for a few minutes before they could continue their fight.
And naturally, knowing when a training weapon is being realistic and when it isn't, is challenging even for modern HEMA. And in fact, even the people at the time disagreed with each other over how best to practice. George Silver in 1599 was infamous for saying that Franco-Spanish rapiers are useless and English backswords and bills are the best weapons.
the reason an 'offhand' weapon is often used with a rapier is to protect the vulnerability of being able to bat away the rapier
i think the convention with a buckler is to have it extended with the rapier to block off more lines of attack than if it was withdrawn; to protect the vulnerable section of the blade as pointed out; and to obscure the position of the handle making it harder to predict attacks.
do correct me if I'm mistaken
Covering the hand with the buckler is good advice with an arming sword or messer, or sidesword at times. But with a rapier, this brings the left shoulder in and reduces the length advantage; besides, a cup-hilt rapier already comes equipped with a mini-buckler to cover the hand! A retracted buckler is more use in this case, to deflect an incoming thrust or to receive or reinforce a bind made with the rapier to allow closing in. The katana guy seems to have figured this out!
"What would you have done in the situations where he won?"
Lose, probably. Let's be real, he knows his stuff.
Entertainment gold.
Nicely done. George Silver would approve of the rapier counters. BTW you consider other weapons to try? I'd like to see Seki-sensei pick up a dedicated fighting bowie knife and see how it translates.
I've never seen someone this relaxed in a fight and having this much fun...
The closest I've seen was a Sikh playing frail old man baiting someone into an attack.
i desperately want him to try various types of sabers next lol
1st sparing was like I have the high ground do not try this xD
A very cool video!
Don't get tricked, rapiers were not weak swords, they were very heavy, weighing ~1.5kg on average (>3lb). Simply hitting them near the hilt wouldn't do much, unless you are far stronger than the person wielding it. You want either strong pushes near the hilt or light taps in the middle or near the tip to get the sword away from a direct line to your torso so you could advance.
The two swords have completely different philosophies applied. With rapier you maneuver around for an easy stab or a cut while protecting yourself all the time, with katana you aim for a decisive blow that will end the fight while taking risks. Think of it like Western European vs. Japanese mentality. As I learned both, the only way to win with katana consistently requires incredible footwork.
Another tip I could share for Suka-sensei (I apologise if I mispronunced the name) is that one does not need wide swings or much force to parry with tanto or wakizashi. Instead of making movements from above drawing strength from an elbow, utilise the sidearm with the tip pointed upwards and make simple rotational wrist movements left and right to deflect it and the blade will slide past you. Alternatively, one can "lock in" the elbow and the wrist and make swiping movements from a shoulder to move away already "engaged" blade but that is risky as leverage on rapiers is exceptional and a fast fighter might exploit the now widen stance. Just catch it with your wakizashi, no need to deflect with vigour if a stab is coming. Rapier is heavy and long and that actually works against it in certain ways, so a child's strength and no technique is enough.
Stop thrust ftw
¿Habrá algún arma que Seki sensei no sepa manejar?
Rapiers have had different sizes and weights, from full basket hilt covered shorter and thin blades, to mostly ornamental basket hilt setups with a crossguard and an almost square rod(or diamond-shaped blade), sharpened only some parts along the way to the tip. So I'm assuming that some used them almost as top-heavy sabers, focusing on the thrust-attacks with cuts (like from the Waithe manual). But supposedly the "right" way is a fairly heavy rod that weighs a bit less than 2kg. Which would be used to glance incoming attacks high on the blade, a bit in the same way as a heavy, stiff Chinese straight-sword. And then use the weight of the blade to stop blows and to deflect (a lot like Seki sensei does with the katana). Which does work, but it's not something I'd be comfortable with as an amateur, to be entirely honest. Even just friendly sparring with a real sword like that is rough.
So I can't imagine that untrained soliders would practice that. And.. that it would make sense that 17th and 18th century rapiers tended to then be lighter thrust-swords. To the point where they would be like the one you have, more like a heavy epee than a thrust-sword.
But they're supposed to be heavier, and to be top-heavy to have that specific weight-advantage in those specific plays.
I am not sure I got it right: when you mentioned sword weighting a bit less than 2kg, are you still referring to rapiers? Because I've never seen or read of a functional historical rapier that was that heavy, usually they are between 1-1.3kg. Sure, there are the heavier war rapier with broader blades like those used by Spanish cavalry in the 17th and 18th century, but I would consider swords used by mounted troops as something separate.
And rapiers in general are never top-heavy, not even those with a blade profile meant for cut and thrust techniques. They're heavier and with the balance moved further than thrust-only rapiers, but not too much or they would be rendered clumsy and impractical as duelling or battlefied weapons: if cutting is meant to be the main attack, then it makes more sense to just use a sabre with a blade designed to be optimized for cuttings.
@@ROMANTIKILLER2 There are extant examples of real rapiers, that don't necessarily count as cavalry swords, that weigh as much as 4 pounds, where the blade is surprisingly heavy. But you're right that most rapiers in museums, specially the pretty ones (even if they are not dress-swords), are much lighter.
And you're right - they're not practicable for anyone who doesn't specialize in using them, even if you are quite good with a sword, and perhaps are using the point for a very specific reason. And I genuinely think that choosing a longsword with the weight further back would probably make sense even for an incredibly good swordsman, even if you only were thrusting (because you're ...probably good with the longsword, too). Or like you say, just use a heavy saber - it also does have a point, after all (and was a popular cavalry sword, probably because of the weight distribution and the control you have with it). So it makes complete sense that the thrusting swords developed the way they did. Holding even a 1,3kg sword that won't rest well in the hand while on horseback won't make sense, either, right.. Really, it would just not make sense with a one-handed sword like that on horseback, period. You'd just destroy your wrist, and have very little control.
But. There does exist heavy rapiers, and they were used for some sort of reason. And... having practiced a bit with a heavy Chinese 剑, a straight sword, non-functional handguard, etc., with pretty much even thickness (that then makes it a bit top-heavy) - there are techniques you can do with that that won't work on a handguard-less longsword. So I think that that is the usage scenario for it. That you'd move in and meet the cutting-blade on a thrust, in a way that would only work on a longsword (safely) with a handguard (even two-handed). And even with the weight, you have to really hit perfectly.
At the same time - this is also the principle behind the japanese longswords with slight curves, or no curves. It's not something you do every time - but because of the weight distribution you could, if you're really good, meet an incoming blade higher, and use the weight of the blade to deflect it.
So it's not like that usage scenario for a heavy rapier, on foot, doesn't exist.