Tom Holland accepts AC Grayling's challenge: "Name ONE thing Christianity did for us"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ม.ค. 2020
- Historian Tom Holland responds to AC Grayling's challenge to name one thing that Christianity has done for the world that doesn't also have a secular or classical source... and reels off a list.
This is an extract from The Big Conversation between Tom Holland & AC Grayling. Watch in full: • Tom Holland vs AC Gray...
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![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #1 SS8 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ytc50m91QK8/mqdefault.jpg)
Tom Holland has really aged out of the Spider-Man role quickly...
Was expecting this joke 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😆
Awwww how original of you
🤣😅🤣😅
heres one for you AC Grayling "But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
That was actually a Jewish concept before Christianity was invented.
Very bad advice when your enemies are fascists or violent religious nutters.
Do you mean 'slaughter entire populations, women and children too so that they can't procreate anymore'? That concept in the bible directed by your alleged god?
@@memisemyself I have never seen any proof that is the case
@@colaboytje What's that got to do with Christianity?
Christianity gave me hope when I was not a Christian.
Zeal! False. 500+ witnesses witnessed Jesus walking, talking, eating, laughing... living amongst them after His resurrection from the dead before ascending into Heaven... they even stuck their hands in His otherwise deadly wounds. God raised Him from the dead so that all men might know and believe that His testimony was true, all of it, every word. Furthermore His 12 apostles (save one (John) who died of old age after surviving being boiled alive)... all died martyrs deaths proclaiming Him as Savior of the world.
Who should I believe and trust with my soul? Them who walked with Him and died proclaiming Him? Or you?
Jesus’s testimony is this; That whosoever will believe in Him (Jesus), will be saved. Amen.
@@RealSnail3D a book full of obviously fictional stories claims that 500+ people blah blah blah with some bullshit on top.....
Have you read the bible?
@Zeal! It's OK. You aren't ready to accept it yet. Your salvation is in your hands. I think those of us who believe in the one true God and Jesus Christ at least live with our beliefs that we will spend eternity with God in Heaven. You don't have to believe, you also don't have to try to change the minds of those who do. You couldn't if you tried, however, because us Christians know the truth because He lives in each one of us and we can feel Him. Investigate the hundreds of NDE 's, which now scientists and doctors are investigating and believing in. Non-believers/athiests now believers. Iranian underground Christian movement taking the cou try by storm. People turn in away from Islam and willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs in Jesus. Messianic Jews who are preaching and changing the minds of Jews. It's unbelievable what's going on. The world is waking up.
Hope of white man God and White Son of god as well who is Jew
@@somerandom3247 i read it. excellent book. Former atheist here, Gbu :)
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the fact that Christianity especially in its Calvinist(Puritan)form more than any other force in history promoted universal literacy -this was because of the need for every individual to access the Bible in his/her own language and have a personal relationship with God -once a person is literate he then is capable of reading other things than the Bible and this may include critiques of religion -thus it was no accident that many of the Enlightenment philosophers and activists were from Britain especially Scotland,the Netherlands,Switzerland and of course the New England region of the United States where the agitation for independence had its main focus.
@War Peace Your comment is irrelevant to the topic -Calvin and Luther may have done very bad things but the movements they spearheaded ultimately led to a lot of very beneficial changes in society like the promotion of literacy and ultimately to democracy and the enlightenment through the questioning of medieval belief systems.
@War Peace You talk about evil things done by Calvin etc -these pale into insignificance compared to the evil done by popes-I know as I have studied church history .One need only look at the life of the Borgia pope or a monster like Pius VI who had people tortured by the hundreds.Papacy once owned half of Italy and had own armies and started bloodthirsty wars -just look up the Wars of Castro for example where the pope had a whole town destroyed because they opposed him.
Universal literacy is not novel. It exists and was promoted in earlier cultures.
@@danieljones2048 Which ones? Classical Greece and Rome were literate to an extent but it was far from universal -the first nations to attain full literacy in history were the Scandinavian countries as soon as the early seventeenth century -mainly Lutheran Protestant lands! The Protestant reformation and its insistence on translating the Bible into the vernacular languages kick started many of the literatures of Europe -e.g.Martin Luther's translation of the Bible is the basis for a lot of modern German(spelling etc) and of course the tremendous effect the King James Bible had on English literature(Shakespeare,Milton etc)Earlier the Catholic church had been wary of allowing the laity to read the Bible on their own as could lead to revolutionary movements etc as the New Testament in particular is a very radical text-a mere carpenter being the savior of the world!"When Adam delved(dug) and Eve span/who was then the gentleman(aristocrat)? This was the catchcry of the great peasant's revolt in medieval England.Then we had the Hussite revolt in late medieval Bohemia(Czech republic) and the great German peasant's revolt subsequent to Luther's break with Rome but then hastily condemned by him and the whole thing crushed!Christianity is a very radical religion indeed.
@@kaloarepo288 Calvin was a spycopath. The Bible had been translated to vernacular languages many years before he said shit. Enlightment thinkers (and most of them were shitty as well) were mostly French. Those countries you mentioned, never heard of philosophers from those places. I'm sire there were many, but they are not exactly well-known.
The one that seperates from all others is unmerited salvation.
reefcreep to which one according to their own did... not really do whatever you like... and be saved.... just to believe.
"The one that seperates from all others is unmerited salvation."
The CLAIM of salvation. No one has presented any evidence to prove such salvation actually exists.
C Nault False. 500+ witnesses witnessed Jesus walking, talking, eating, laughing... living amongst them after His resurrection from the dead before ascending into Heaven... they even stuck their hands in His otherwise deadly wounds. God raised Him from the dead so that all men might know and believe that His testimony was true, all of it, every word. Furthermore His 12 apostles (save one (John) who died of old age after surviving being boiled alive)... all died martyrs deaths proclaiming Him as Savior of the world.
Who should I believe and trust with my soul? Them who walked with Him and died proclaiming Him? Or you?
Jesus’s testimony is this; That whosoever will believe in Him (Jesus), will be saved. Amen.
@@RealSnail3D an old ass book claims that 500+ people witnessed blah blah blah......
Have you read the bible? It's clearly fictional. I mean, talking snakes, donkeys and bushes should be enough. But the countless contradictions, stories of events the. Never happened on this planet and supernatural bullshit really seal the deal. Completely fictional garbage....
@@somerandom3247 simply because to believe in it you must know that there is force that can do this but you don't so there is no point reading it without having the base idea required to understand
That's how philosophy works sometime, that you have to analyse every situation the way people say it to understand, no one was that animals talk naturally, if you read carefully you'd know that they were always angels an demons while everytning else is the same
Also where in the Bible was there a contradiction, name me one, but like I said, try to analyse it properly
Don't just be like "it's so fake I don't need to understand this" watch Jordan Peterson I'm think he might change your mind
Does everybody forget Gregor Mendel? Dude is a Monk from the Augustinian Abbey. He was an Abbot who was literally the guy who discovered genetics....
i thought Spider-man would be in this video
SAME
Litteraly the only reason I clicked on it.
I didn't realise people as dense as Tom still existed. Scary stuff.
It's like the Monty Python sketch: "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
"Well apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
@@ancalagonyt A number of the things you mentioned predate the roman empire...
@@byronboydstun2222 It's a quote from the skit.
ancalagonyt Brought peace. ✌️
Yes!
Tell me why I clicked on this thinking it was going to be about Peter Parker
Hahaha
Yeah, I thought it was going to be THAT Tom Holland
😀😀
Hospitals, orphanages, classical music theory, school systems, universities,
Plenty of other civilizations, especially in the East, had those as well.
@@RayLRhodesName them.
@@RayLRhodessaying "plenty others had them" is easy to do. For instance, I could easily claim that plenty of mediaeval countries had nuclear power stations. Unless I give evidence, nobody will ever believe me. Which is the same reason nobody believes you right now.
@@Jin-dc7glfirst hospital and university was made by islam
@@maving2449wrong lol
In China Christian missionaries were at the forefront of stopping footbinding of the feet of young girls which caused them great pain and for fashion's sake made normal walking impossible.
Their next challenge is chest binding going on in the West today.
Not for fashion sake to make them more ornamental for the men and less able to run away. It was like hobbling miners.
Christianity the world over has been the single greatest force in increasing female literacy, which impressed me when I learned that. As a literate female, I'm thankful.
In Roman times Christians saved the lives of babies who had been left outside to die, often getting slandered and sccused of using the babies for ritual sacrifice and even cannibalism.
Long lay the world in sin and error pining
'Til He appeared and the soul felt its worth
In India Christian missionaries were at the forefront of unifying city dialects to help inguistically streamline their languages to futher independance from Britain.
What a stretch of imagination!
@@instamdgram History is full of surprises.
ROFL.. they wanted to make the local languages seem uncouth and destroy culture. They wanted everyone to learn English so that it would be easy to convert and cheap labour for the Raj.
And then they discovered Harappan civilization
What unique positive contribution to society has atheism brought that didn’t already exist in a religion beforehand?
@Jonathan Archer science can end all suffering... You are our of your mind...
@@jackclark1916 assuming atheists endorse children transgenderism just because some far leftist deviants happen to be atheist is like assuming Christians endorse pedophililia as evidenced by the catholic priests child abuse scandals.
@tsimahei That's an intriguing quote from Nietzsche I've never seen before. Obviously I have google at my fingertips, but do you have a source for that by chance? God bless.
Well science has evil intentions right ? Stem cell research? We need more infirmities of creation walking around with disease or deformity to bring praise and glory to sky dad.
Omg the religious idiots on this thread. Every single argument littered with logical fallacies
Medical missionaries were among the first to speak up worldwide against female circumcision
Shame they don’t care about the genitals of baby boys being mutilated 👀
I am missing the answer Grayling gave after Holland did his piece...
probably a non sequitur. It's what the weirdos who make up the small army of militant atheists do. Very odd people.
@Unbelievable? The title you chose for this video misrepresents AC Grayling's challenge and has led to a lot of confusion in the comment section. AC Grayling's challenge was to "Name one thing Christianity has introduced that doesn't have some source or parallel with previous and other civilizations". This is entirely different than "Name one thing Christianity did for us". His challenge focuses on the uniqueness of Christianity, not strictly on its utility.
Chains and whips in the slave trading?
@@EdMcCornholeAssyrians?
HAHAHA This guy is losing his shit that his Lord and Saviour, AC Grayling (PBUH) didn't have the hard on Title he would usually get on social media lmao.
How about grace? the unmerited or undeserving favor of God to those who are under condemnation
You have to prove God for that to be valid.
Yeah. You see, there's this idea that we're "condemned" and "undeserving". It kinda... Makes it less appealing?
What we miss when we look at Christianity in a temporal, materialistic way, as "starting" with the birth of Jesus, is that all of the ancient world's wisdom was focused on the coming incarnation of the Divine. That's why we see much of the Christian iconography, ritual and knowledge emerging in the ancient world. They knew about the coming incarnation of God in the world and were preparing humanity for it. Christianity didn't "borrow" or "steal" this ancient knowledge, it was fulfilling it. The world was already "Christian." As Augustine says, "That which is known as the Christian religion existed among the ancients, and never did not exist." That's why the magi (coming from the East) show up at Christ's birth. And they already KNOW what ritual he is going to perform with his entire birth, life, and death. Hence, the gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Christ is the Divine King, he is here to sacrifice himself as an offering for us, and he will experience great suffering and death in doing so.
Also, we now have documents written by the Chinese Emperor at the time of Jesus mentioning that they know that their God has incarnated in the West. The very same God that the Jews were worshipping.
Forgiveness.
Fake news.
ok some guy. why bother being here if you dont believed in such.
Rocketbearful If you really think forgiveness wasn’t around before Christianity you’re a moron.
Just some guy guess you were around back then eh
@@justsomeguy6336 haha haloo.. imagine some moron raping every women you loved and not killing them.. actually he returned them to you, both legs cut below knees.. then tell me how you would forgive him?
What a combination! Winner by TKO, Tom Holland!
When will they learn that "I can't think of/find any example" is not an argument...
Maybe when someone actually provides a legitimate answer?
Argument from ignorance is usually not a good path to travel.
Some more than others. Believers more than others
@@robertpaulson9813 love the use of the word "legitimate" in that sentence. Obviously, Bobby here will determine what is legitimate and what isn't - wholly dependant on his priori, of course. lmao.
Grace over Law distinguishes Christianity.
Yes, but more so, grace over Law distinguishes us as the Body of Christ, where we recognize Jesus in the flesh no longer, and take comfort in the fact that we're already justified through His sacrifice, and not our works, being crucified with Him, and buried with Him, and raised with Him, 2000 years ago.
and Law fulfilled by sanctifying Grace
But A.C. Crayling is addressing history and culture broadly.
But A.C. Crayling is addressing the question about Christianity in relation to culture, not theology.
Thats it.
Thanks.
The human dignity that we individuals cherish with freewill, dreams, and indelible personal identity which longs for eternal existence only made possible from Christian hope whereas reincarnation based on karmic debts or evolutionary thoughts totally obliterates your individual identity, freewill or dreams. It is capricuous or hopeless.
Let's see.....
-Loving your enemies and praying for your tormentors
-Atonement for all humanity
-Virgin birth
-Physical Resurrection (not ascension or apotheosis)
-Trinity
-A deity refers to his followers as his "brothers"
-Jesus being God and Man. Not a demigod or a God living in human flesh.
-All humans being equal regardless of gender or nationality (Since the first pages of Genesis)
Samuel Hunter sorry, pet peeve...”irregardless” is not a word. Bless you brother!
Bonus pet peeve: it’s based “on” and not based “off.”
@Jonathan Archer Who said the essence of theism is evil despotism?
@Jonathan Archer Isn't that just false equivocation?
@Jonathan Archer You're referring to Pantheism, not theism.
The whole point of theism is knowing and understanding God, or at the very least, the personal creator.
Jonathan Archer Hi Jonathan, please tell me, what is your definition of a theist?
Made some damned fine buildings.
Recorded hatches, matches, and dispatches.
Promoted literacy.
Helped galvanise Europe to stop the Muslim invasion.
And I'm atheist.
And burned witches
@@konyvnyelv. cope harder.
Plenty of other civilizations have made buildings.
Christians fought for the Plimsoll line - a red line on the hull of a merchant ship which was always to remain visible - to prevent overloading and unnecessary loss of life because of greedy risk-taking merchants.
A personal relationship with God. Even as a concept only, it’s a pretty novel approach to religion.
So you think no one of the thousands of cults in Hellenistic and Roman world 2000 years ago did offer a spiritual religion?
Christians are not God's Barristers, but stand as testimony to God's Word and work...
The "idea of lifelong matrimony", aka marriage, as far as historians know, started with a shift from polygyny to monogamy between 1000 and 600 BCE in Greek city-states. The Roman Emperor Augustus then implemented legal reforms between 18 BCE and 9 CE that encouraged men to marry. As the Roman Empire expanded so did monogamy which the Christian church assumed as the norm after the fall of the empire. The Church was influential to be sure, but not the originator of the idea.
According to Emmanuel Todd, the oldest form of family structure is the nuclear, monogamous family. He is a specialist in the anthropology of family structure.
M Rede. Thanks for the clarification. It appears to be true that humans were monogamous after splitting from other hominids such as the Australopithecus some 300,000 years ago and remained that way until the departure from hunter gatherer. With the increasing inequality humans became primarily polygynous. I left that part out in the spirit of conciseness and because it wasn't relevant to my rebuttal. Cheers
The point was “life long” not just marriage.
@@kjustkses Once divorce became legal (because of the exceptionally difficult cases), and legality replaced morality, it slowly became accepted and commonplace
Same as with abortion.
Da Koos. He's still incorrect. Christian's take credit for so much, sometimes out of ignorance and sometimes disingenuously. The point is that the implementation of lifelong marriage was a long process that Christians played a roll in but certainly were not the sole initiators of. We had a strong genetic propensity rooted in natural selection taking place over vast sums of time allowing for marriage to be possible. Almost certainly God or Jesus was not responsible for marriage.
In the beginning...
(drops mic)
Fake news.
I think that the question of what Christianity has given to the world is really impossible to define, since so many people over the past centuries who have been instrumental in fashioning the society we live in were brought up as Christian. Still, it isn't possible to say for certain how much of an impact their Christian upbringing and faith (or lack of it) has played a part in their subsequent actions or ideas. This is true of all religions.
"Wha'ha da Romans evah dun fah uz?"
Monty Python: LIFE OF BRIAN
I would say the idea of forgiveness is more developed in Christianity (not that Christians themselves have always shown to be great at it). So the idea that anyone can be forgiven for whatever they do and that we are to forgive everyone of everything.
To go along with this, is the teaching to love your enemies. Everyone is okay with loving other people until one of them does something bad to you, then you want to get your own back on them. By following the teaching to love your enemy, it causes you to value them as human beings despite their flaws. This in turn can help them change.
I'm not saying I'm definetely correct that these teachings are only in Christianity, but they would be my best guesses. I would, in fact, be happier to see another religion or philosophy that embraced these ideas before Christianity. The more who do good, the better, afterall.
Nope. Karma has all of the elements you just named and predates Judaism and Christianity. You can build up good karma and shed bad karma, which is the same concept as sinning and having your sins forgiven.
Why don't Christians just admit they don't study the history of other religions instead of making incorrect assumptions about them?
@@JL0007 I thought karma is only negative. There is no good karma.
In any case, that doesn't refute what I wrote.
@@miguelthealpaca8971 sounds like you never studied karma.
It does refute what you said because you said Christianity came up with the idea of forgiveness, and that's not true because the concept of karma is the same concept from a different religion. And I'm sure the concept predated Hinduism also. These aren't unique ideas
Also loving your enemies is a concept in Hinduism and Jainism. Jains say to love all life, whereas Christianity and some other religions only apply that to humans. And really Christianity only applies to believers or members of the tribe, not everybody. So it's not universal like Buddhism is for instance
The concept of forgiveness is actually seems even more developed in Hinduism now that I think about it. In Christianity you're taught to forgive, but in Hinduism you never blame in the first place because karma balances rights and wrongs. So you don't have to forgive because you never blamed the person in the first place. Christianity adds a guilt component to everything, so that may explain the difference considering it's a younger religion.
Many if not most emerging political leaders in Africa after WW2 had learned to read and write in a missionary school; a running joke amongst left-wing protagonists in Third World countries was, Christians taught the natives how to read but Karl Marx had written the material that they did read.
The concept of forgiveness, to forget one self's errors and even loving your enemy, that's has christian origin, and the charity fundraisers are also from it, I can be wrong if there was any other ancient civilization that has that but...
Jonathan Archer Its clearly that you are not a wise man.
Great answer. I thank the Lord for His abundant steadfast love and faithfulness because He has been my help in all of my distress and afflictions just as it says in scripture so it is. He answered all of my prayers and lifted me up from ruins. He is the God of restoration and gives His promised Spirit to those who repent and believe just as it says in the scripture. I found out about His goodness and am overjoyed by His presence. I am so happy and looking forward to His coming. He really does provide for all of my needs. Grace and peace to all in Christ. 🙂
there are christian schools, hospitals and outreach missions to third world countries.... President Carter thru Carter Center has helped heal people with diseases thru out the world....christians on an individual basis have done God’s work unnoticed....
Shame on you for even saying this.
Christian missionaries were the first to begin to treat lepers in India, Africa and South America.
Give what is due to Caesar and give what is due to God. This is the separation of political power and religious power. Caliphate is political error. Second one ruler should be Minster, formerly rulers were God. This two concepts of Jesus Christ has done marvelous change in Western world and human welfare.
How about salvation by grace
Christianity has given us the modern day calendar as well as eternal life.
[Citation needed]
@tsimahei you think Christianity gave us modern science?
@tsimahei you're mentioning Christians who have done great things in the world of science, that doesn't mean Christianity should get the credit. That's like saying Atheism is responsible for founding computer science. There's nothing in the Bible or the life of Christ that's responsible for modern science. Also your flat earth comments are just weird....what's being an atheist got to do with flat earth?
@tsimahei Please explain what role Christianity had in developing science....I'm not disputing the role of certain Christians but you haven't shown that it was their belief system that in anyway contributed. The flat earth thing is just silly and by trying to link that with atheism suggests you don't even know what atheism is.
Julius Ceasar gave us the modern calendar, for the most part. But Christianity did give is many other vital elements to build the foundation of a great culture (though admittedly not a perfect one)
Why doesn't this video clip include Grayling's response?
Love.
Love your enemies.
Love everyone.
Even that isn't special to Christianity if you've read from Stoic philosophy
Reminds also of that other guy in the middle of a beautiful sunny valey but somehow angry with life and suddenly shouts:" God why don't you show yourself?"
Looking at the comments section here I'd say Christianity is pretty unique! I wonder how long that atheist struggled with that question!?
Education!
Matt 22:39....and Forgiveness not 7 times but 7x70! Charity, Grace and Peace be with YOU!
I would add to the list: “The Word became flesh”
the Q&A A deity taking human form is definitely not uniquely Christian.
SKCLLC- A deity taking human form is one thing, but the Logos becoming a human is different, very distinct. Superficially the same, but fundamentally different.
@@theQandA I don't know what all is entailed in the title of "Logos", but how is it fundamentally different than Vishnu (the Hindu embodiment of ultimate reality) incarnating on Earth to save us from our own evils?
SKCLLC- With Vishnu, I think there are two essential differences. One is, as you alluded to, what is entailed in Logos. The biblical notion is based on the Jewish concept of a single, personal God who created the universe with His speech in accordance with His will and wisdom, and who revealed Himself through interaction with people throughout history and through Scripture that He inspired to be written. God is so closely associated with His word that He could be said, in some sense, to be identified with it. If His word does something, He does it, and vice versa.
By contrast, I don’t know if there is technically a concept of logos in Hinduism, but the pantheistic framework is conceptually altogether different. That alone guarantees that even if there is a concept of logos in Hinduism, it would be too foreign from the Christian concept for the two to be realistically correlated. It would be like two people having a conversation about apples while one of them is thinking about oranges.
The second essential difference, in my view, is what it means to “become flesh.” The biblical concept is that the Logos was supernaturally conceived in a virgin’s womb, and so was both fully God and fully human. In this way He actually entered into human history in the first century as the one particular human Jesus of Nazareth.
By contrast, Vishnu has multiple avatars, most of which are mythical (not historical), and some of which are not human or not fully human. From what I understand, the one exception would be that some traditions consider one of his avatars to be the historical Buddha, but in this case he was not virginally conceived. These are all significant differences that place the two worlds apart.
& dwelt amongst us. ✝️
What a ridiculous challenge, seriously. He's basically playing to the fact that human beings have a degree of compassion within them which means in some lesser form, no matter how much of a lesser form that is, no matter how superficially similar to the extreme, humans have been kind, caring, charitable and defending of one another.
The problem with this of course is that humans actually tend towards disorder and this is easily provable throughout human history. The greatest human advancements that we take full luxury of today were mostly made by Christians, that includes the sciences. But he's also missed the boat completely with his challenge and preconceived notions (reference to Noah is entirety deliberate)...
What Jesus Christ brought, was a super natural internal rejuvenation that leads to everlasting life by placing faith and trust in Him alone, because only He alone lived a perfect moral life, died for all of humanities sins and then physically rose from the dead to prove He is God and that His words are true. In fact his saints today are still led by His voice. You can TH-cam people's experiences from all over the world, all of whom have no connection to one another to make if all up, yet we all have very similar or exactly the same experiences when encountering the LORD Jesus Christ and how He has changed our lives. It's precisely why every empire in the world could not kill off Christianity, because the Holy Spirit cannot be stopped by human hands or anything else for that matter. Just look at the Sermon On The Mount or the Olivet Discourse also, nothing - no one has ever even been close to Jesus Christ.
There's nothing else in all of human history that has this, not even close. Praise Jesus, praise His mighty name above all names. Amen. 😎✝️🛡️⚔️
Amen brother, God will not be mocked, questions like the one asked by the atheist at the beginning are just juvenile rebellion. I find the ultimate way they try to hurt God is by denying His existence or attacking Jesus' teachings. They most likely have daddy issues, I say that from experience ;)
Yes what he said
if humans naturally tended towards disorder we wouldn't have a society ya dipshit
Disciple AJ it isn’t tho. The first civilizations were not Christian as Christianity didn’t even exist yet Or Judaism for that matter. Humans don’t lean towards chaos, we lean towards balance. Christianity is a religion of absolutes, the world does not work in absolutes.
Suppression of Greek science?
In reality all religions have the same goal, connect the human soul with the cosmic soul by the virtues that each one constructs in their life times, thats why we come multiple times or reincarnate to perfect or purify the soul of our own egos.
"Name 1 thing Christianity did for us" is a false argument. Even if it did nothing externally for us to see, it wouldn't make it untrue. Also, assuming the value is in what can be seen in people's behaviour, reduces Christianity to some kind of self help class. It makes the statement, "If Christianity was true people wouldn't be sinners, and the world would be better". But Christianity is necessary BECAUSE we are sinners. So we shouldn't expect to see radical changes in the world around us if Christianity is true.
How is it a false argument? It's a question.
"What have the Romans ever done for us ?"
taught you how to poop in the toilet and flush it away
"I am the way the truth and the life. No man can come to the Father except through me"
-Jesus Christ
Its Christ. He is that difference.
"Believing our bullshit is the only way to get to the made up afterlife" there, I fixed it for you...
Litteraly every religion does this.
Why didn't you show his reply?
i think I might have found it, here on TH-cam, haven't watched it yet but i did come across this..
might be it...?
Premier Unbelievable: tom holland and a c grayling, did Christianity give us our human values...
full programme
I don't think I would say it's a distinctly Christian thing to have lifelong marriages, because Jesus said in the Gospel that it was something that was from the beginning. We came into the picture later, but he designed it from the beginning.
The ability to be saved through the belief in Jesus Christ
Amen
Jonathan Archer
Theist practices as in what practices??
Jonathan Archer including to love thy enemy
& neighbour
Because to me if you stand by those principles from the bible ,
then you will always be righteous and just
Jonathan Archer which evil are you talking about? There is no evil there. Dont take things out of context.
I recommend you guys read Tom Holland's new book: Dominion, which is about this very subject.
I don't think I'll bother. It might be as silly as his answer to Grayling.
Yes I will, he is a great guy and a good historian.
@@ronhirsch1944 Suit yourself. I personally loved and think you might find quite informative.
Graylings stupid
@Jonathan Archer For starters, I was very intrigued that an agnostic historian might attest that the alleged belief in the resurrection was the single most influential event in the formation of the Western mind. He goes over Persians, Greeks, Jews and Romans, before jumping to Paul (the lack of depth for Jesus' life was imo frustrating) and the early church.
I learnt how Christianity overturned so many cultural norms, so as how it introduced charity. People competed to see who could give more to the poor, rather than the disregard for anyone of a lower class than you. I'd recommend the book anyway; I haven't yet finished.
Christians have and still do finance and drill artesian wells all over the world.
Did any previous religion consider thinking about a sinful act to be equal with actually committing the act?
SKCLLC kind of. Believe it or not the “evil eye” was actually something to be feared and warded. It existed it Greek religious practice, and was very prevalent in Roman thought. In one sense, it wasn’t a sin, but in another sense they attributed real power to covetousness and evil intent towards another. That’s why the answer is “kind of.”
L Proof Thank you, that makes sense. Now that you say that I realize that covetousness is forbidden by the Ten Commandments. I was more thinking of the teaching that anger is equivalent to committing murder as far as God is concerned (or something like that).
SKCLLC Yeah it’s hatred towards someone without just cause. Even Jesus got angry. If you’ve ever seen the film Amadeus, which oddly enough means ‘love God,’ I think it’s an excellent depiction of how inner-hatred leads to murder. I still don’t think it’s wholly unique though considering the idea above.
I stated this the other day though that the work on the cross is the most important and unique idea in Christianity. Christianity claims it has solved the problem of evil, and no other religion does this. Not even Judaism. Christ’s work on the cross is the most important event that ever occurred and what it provides can be found nowhere else. Thank God
Good ideas come from all places. The greatness of the idea relies on it’s content and not it’s source.
That's not the case when the source is the Truth and not just something more or less inspired by the Truth.
Unless there’s verification, these are simply bald assertions, and are wrong to be outright believed as true. Grayling’s response was needed here too
Christianity changed our morality. Piety, long life matrimony, sacredness of life, that's true. But it also became the policy of thought, this was the high cost to pay. Anything has its bright and dark side.
I tell you one thing is done? Given us all the chance of eternal life
Looks like AC Grayling didn't spend much time "racking his brain" on this issue.
LMAO
Christianity didn’t invent monogamy
Michael Henrikson he said matrimony
nick liu No he said lifelong matrimony, which is monogamy.
Michael Henrikson oh my b
@@cheesezpleaze monogamy is being married to one person at a time, nothing life long
@@petemaguire8677 so add divorce to the mans list.
Just one thing?How about Hospitals?How about Universities?How about universal literacy?How about Modern Science(Or people really think Newton,Kepler,copernicus,etc... were given their knowledge by random falling apples?)How about the idea that God is logos made flesh?How about the idea of natural law?How abotu the idea that men should love their wives as Christ loves his church and give Himself to her(And we are talking about Christ's love here,which is infinite,eternal and unconditional,pure agape and not some romantic,weak Eros).
Choose one of those.
Plenty of non Christian societies had hospitals and universities. Grayling specifically says to mention things that no other societies had.
It's a two minute video. Watch before commenting.
Also fact that at time of jesus, his philosophy was utterly unique in his approach to the poorest as most in need of his time.
No other religion or culture put such an emphasis on the weak at the time of jesus.
U could say he was the 1st socialist
Socialism is actually solidarity rather than charity,wtf are you talking about.
@@deutschesvaterlandfankanal socialism is looking after the working class & poor. Not enriching the rich at everyone else's expenses. U clearly missed my point
Got slapped pretty hard there :)
@rewertzyy 1 I am not religious but Grayling got hammered throughout
Because they cut after he spoke. None of the things he named are unique to Christianity. He's just woefully unaware of other religions
People get married and do science in every nation on this planet. Neither are solely christian. His response was simply wrong.
Talking to religious people is entertaining because you never know what stupid thing they are going to say next.
John L so an acclaimed historian, writer about Islam, Christianity, Greece, Rome and Persia is “just woefully unaware of other religions”?
Do you see how dumb you look when you say something like that?
Gosh people live in their own bubble.
I’m glad they don’t shut up because that makes it so much easier to uncover all the ignorant folks
When you proudly ask the damn wrong question.
What's wrong with the question?
Anthony Norman It's a very dumb question, typical of a man illiterate on the subject - just as the answer shows. The fact that it was proposed as a challenge makes it rather embarrassing. Just like someone coming to you and asking "name one thing medicine has done for us."
@@vaderetro264 ...the responder failed to name one unique unparalleled thing...
Anthony Norman - because he named quite a few instead of one, you mean??
The challenger was so sure that his opponent will hang his head in shame and ask for a glass of water....... instead the challenger was taken down a peg or two. And he still kept a silly self-satisfied smirk on his face. These sort of people really think that the only clever person in the room is them, everyone's else is a stupid dilettante.
@@kbeetles looking at the histories of Asia or North America shows that not to be the case
Helped stop cannibalism. Christian missionaries were the only ones with the courage to go to cannibals and by the preaching of the gospel turn cannibals from their ways.
Holland skims over those points without digging out precise reasons why they were good or bad or ethical or unethical.
Salvation through faith by God's grace. Not salvation on self improvement or self development (good deeds). No other society or religion gives that concept. Remarkable concept that God chose the saved ones since before the creation. Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior! Grace and peace from Brazil.
PS.: just for the record - Has any other religion or civilization given something unique or is that question aimed only to christianity? Why so much hatred toward Christ and christianity? Why so much animosity? It is really annoying to see again and again people of all areas of life trying to disconsider christianity based on little details. Hypocrits! "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Mathew 7.3-5 NIV
Alexandre de C Lima You mean the unfalsifiable thing that can’t be proven to exist or be justified in needing to exist?
“Salvation” from what?
“Through faith” = “Blind subjective belief”
“God’s grace” both God and his grace are unsubstantiated.
''Remarkable concept that God chose the saved ones since before the creation.'' Huh, didn't know Calvinists still existed. If God has allready chosen someone to be saved then they don't have free will.
I'll accept that if you show me that Salvation is real, but first to have to show me what we're being saved from.
"No other society or religion gives that concept." How do you know, have you studied every society and religion?
@@mikeil4803 you clearly think like a jew or a muslim. 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 (jewish and muslim thinking). They say that God can only be One and that He could not become a human being (in their view that would diminish God). That is materialism. Such a poor way to depict God. It is ok for you not to believe in God, but for you to make your own God that does what YOU think He should or could do is not a good idea. It is idolatry.
How is “the categories of homosexuality and heterosexuality” uniquely Christian?
They're not Christian, however, it could be argued -- in a tangential way -- that they were a product of Christian civilization, albeit an extremely late product. Until VERY recently, the idea of the homosexual was unknown. The word used was "sodomite". The crucial distinction was that a sodomite was someone who DID something, whereas a homosexual was someone who WAS something. It had never previously been considered that sodomites were in some way different from other men, with some kind of separate "identity". That idea was more to do with the breakdown of Christian civilization than with Christianity itself.
Its shared with the jews.
Dave Whatever opinions about that are very different.
Because whilst other cultures had people engage in homosexual acts, it's only in Christian countries that the idea that a man was somehow only attracted to men and could never be attracted to women emerged
Battlez
What do you mean by “Christian countries”? Did the idea emerge as a direct result of Christian teachings and doctrine? Or is it just that it emerged in Western culture (which is currently more influenced by Enlightenment Humanist principals than by Biblical principles)?
Rule of law/English common law are ideas that really could only have been born out of judo-Christian values. The idea that we are all equal in the eyes of God, and intrinsically valuable is a concept derived from an understanding that we are made in the image of God.
Christianity showed me how hopeless the human race is and our need for a Savior.
That is such a miserable depressing sentiment
Bach! Duh!
Literally everything that is summed up, is not unique to Christianity.
Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
@Jonathan Archer Are you drunk? Your comment has nothing to do with mine.
Lifelong matrimony has been a robust concept in most developing nations in Asia and Africa without any sort of jump in divorce rates. Hindus even go one step further and take seven rotations (known as saat phere) so that they are bonded for seven births and Hinduism has been way way before Christianity and the divorce rate in India is well below 1%. Secularism, tolerance and being commodious towards homosexuality and recognizing other religions mean patently going against the Christian scriptures like those atrocities mentioned the good book and sometimes procedures to what to do to other tribes. Not to mention witch hunts, the Spanish Inquisition and conversion of the indigenous populations in Africa, Oceania and the Eastern civilization, especially in Southern and North Eastern India and Japan and Korea. Secularism and scientific temperament also reflected by the great Western thinkers who went against those religions. E.g.- Galileo who was showed the instruments of torture, Hypatia got murdered and not that long ago George Lamitre, the Belgian priest was tried to get coaxed into diluting the theory on the origin of the universe.
Regarding life-long matrimony, generally people try to resolve problems in a marital relationship, but sometimes there comes a point when staying together becomes hell. Then we should have the freedom to walk away and that is exactly what Christianity tried to end. Also, the notion that life-long matrimony was invented ('given' to us) by Christianity is ludicrous. We know from archaeological evidence that it existed long before and it is also present in many other cultures with completely different belief systems.
Nursing, hospitals.
How much research have you done on this?
Those existed WELL before Christianity
@@whatwecalllife7034 not much really, just had it in mind that charities, looking after the poor, nursing and hospitals came through Christian charity.
@@ThePalePrince ok. Where and when, and for whom? The rich or the poor?
@@ThePalePrince I had a quick google, and you're right, but it was christianity that started the first civilian hospitals. So that to me shows the charitable and caring nature of true christianity. Because certainly it's christianity that's the most charitable of all beliefs, and actions, in the world.
It Offers Eternal Salvation, Through Jesus Christ ❤️
It’s a scam.
Amen
where's the reply?
please.. 🙂
Ever sorry you asked a question?
Provided the world with the university education system, a model which is used in almost every country on earth, and thus eventually providing AC Grayling with a job, place and presumably funding to do his research.
There were universities in the Muslim world. It's weird you don't know that.
@@RayLRhodes a madrassa (Religious school) is not a University like what Christians have founded, it's like a convent and calling it a University. 🙄
Think the Chinese had most of the items on that list. Also I’m sure this clip should be longer.
Yes! And that is why the Chinese people enjoy freedom and individual liberty to this day.
@@DainBramaged00 LOL
Having tried living the faith of actually being " born again" as a fundamentalist Baptist after being raised Episcopalian I came to the conclusion that God is a concept. Christianity has a multifaceted history. The message of Jesus didn't bring about Science as far as I can see. Jesus message seemed more about repentance and following rules to please God and avoid hell. There was a time Christian belief included slavery, torture, and death or imprisonment if you were gifted yet different like Galileo or Capernicus etc. Western Civilization is the product of human social evolution that coincidentally included the Christian faith which many cultures suffered from like native Americans as they were being wiped out and churches put in places were ceremony and tribal dances were held.
Civilization continues to evolve and now we have the Internet which is furthering us towards greater knowledge building on what works for everybody.
One thing that is new... The personal relationship with a Celestial Daddy (Abba)... that loves you and care for you in a personal level... no paralel.
How's sky dad doing?
Fishing Rod 71 He is wonderful... laughing a lot of the poor scientists that have ZERO idea of what consciousness is, how the universe came to be, or how life began...
@@wildthecat been reading the 2 page toilet paper creationism news letter again eh?
Fishing Rod 71 Did I said any lie? My statement above is undisputed... is true science don’t know...
He forgot to feed all the millions of poor starving children that died with manna from heaven like he did in the old testament. Or was that story also horse shit ?!
Christianity attributed to suffering the glory that is attributed to conquering. This is the distinctive idea that Christianity brought to the world, that has no root in any human wisdom prior to Christ. In fact, this idea that suffering and persecution is victory andglorification, is so foreign to the human psyche that it literally came out of this world.
Thank you.
Until Neuroscience pretty much showed what the brain does when woo woo-ing lol...
That was a joke. Not one thing he names was exclusive to Christianity - and this show is meant to bring the best thinkers together? This is all Christianity has to offer in its defense? Yikes.
Seriously?! Metaphysically, the concept of Logos, adapted from the Greeks to mean Christ. And the Trinity--which permeates Hegel, with his tripartite dialectics.
To think Grayling calls himself a philosopher...Anglos really are the least philosophical people on the planet.
I think also, non-corporate punishment
I assume you mean “non-corporal”?
If Christianity forbids corporal punishment, then what is Proverbs 13:24 all about?
“Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.”
He did not name one thing that was Christianity did not steel from other cultures or was not though of in other parts of the world. What a failure at critical thinking.
Science
So, rebuttal was cut out? In essence, just a biased christian marketing clip. Bye.
I find it hilarious that *NONE* of the *Atheist* responses realize that Tom is not a Christian.
He's a classical historian who does not believe in Jesus Christ. It shows how little atheists actually *THINK!*
@Jonathan Archer So your saying humans were non violent before the bible?
That's the most historically inacurate lie I have heard in 2020.
@Jonathan Archer I hope that one day we can. But I have to point out that historically, and far before the Bible had any impact on cultures outside of the Jewish culture, societies had despotism, war, slavery and many such behaviours. So, I'm afraid that your assertion that the Bible is the originator of despotism and such behaviours is historically inaccurate. Sorry mate.
@Jonathan Archer Yes I can see that now, apologies for the missunderstanding. I can also see that you mentioned theists as well as the Bible, and so I only responded to part of your assertion- my bad. I'm sure you know how it is with youtube 'conversations.' In response to your most recent post, I think your key assertion is that human's struggle with despotism is rooted in Biblical Doctrine. And to assert this you supply the example that Jesus himself was killed by people seeking to 'follow' its doctrine (as you note, we also see modern examples). I think this example is key and I completely agree with it, except that where I land afterwards is a slightly different assertion compared with yours. There is not enough space here to explain fully, but essentially, I think that the whole point of why Jesus came and what Jesus taught was to correct and satisfy those doctrines and the interpretation of them. Grace and forgiveness, mercy and love (yes, even love of enemies) were completely counter cultural insights (and also counter to the love of and abuse of power) but yet completely accurate to the Bible, and in fact drawn from the Old Testament. Jesus' shocking and counter cultural words heavily quote it. True followers of Jesus seek to emulate Jesus and his correct interpretation of those biblical doctrines, albeit with great weakness and failure. And so, to follow the bible truly, as Jesus did, is to reject the love of power and live in grace, forgiveness etc; attitudes and ideas that are counter to despotism. I hope I have made my position and assertion clear and concise, and that this finds you enjoying the day.
@Jonathan Archer Thank you Jonathon, I will indeed think about your response, but as you might imagine I do have some different views haha. I think the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the NT written by the authors it claims to have been written by, due to the thousands of source manuscripts, dating, stylistic questions, and the fact that Rome did not like Christians and tried to kill them all off. I also disagree that all people are innocent and good, I think having children proves that point ;), but also considerations of the current climate, how the west seems to be getting morally worse as it divorces from theism. But I think from this point we can say it was fun talking and I hope you have a great new decade. Feel free to have the last word if you would like, but thank you for chatting.
Interesting. It appears I am possibly being prevented from replying to M Rede. I hope it's not due to hurt feelings.
It depends on what do you consider as "christianity", but im going to say some things that were invented or developed by christians. Staff notation, mathemathical perspective, sacrifice refusal, universalism, salvation and holiness of children (specially in Protestantism, although its said in Matthew's gospel), protection of women through: mandatory marriage in order to have sexual relationships, equality like no hierarchies in saints depending on sex (actually Mary is at the top), female priestdom (f.e in the Anglican church there are female priests, bishops and its head is a woman, the Queen), Jesus' examples when he treated women like he treated men, saving the life of a prostitute... championing slavery, capital punishment and torture abolitionism (youll find that most of its pioneers were devote christians and that the first states that permanently banned these things were of Christian majority and leadership), universal suffrage aka modern democracy (same with abolitionism), missions (and not only for the purpose of conversion, this inspired the Red Cross), everything that Florence Nightingale did for the sick like creating modern nursery, promoting universal literacy (Martin Luther), natural rights and international law ( De Las Casas, Vitoria, Suarez...) human rights (the UDHR draft was written and influenced by Christian scholars like Malik or Maritain), mechanical clocks, watermarks, greek fire, grenades, plate armour, coat mail, eyeglasses, flying butress, pintle-and-gudgeon stern-mounted rudders, the longbow, the organ gun, oil painting, mills, magnets, wine press, quarantine, mirrors, universities, compasses, movable type press,the laser printer (check it out, Gary Starkweather, the inventor, believes he was God-inspired), hospitals, modern banking, lending and the stock exchange, most of the things the Kellogg's brothers invented, Kepler and Galileo's discoveries, Lemaitre's theories, the Hubble constant and universe age (Allan Parridge), George Boole’s work, Existentialism (concept coined by Marcel, a catholic, being Kierkegaard it's pioneer), actus purus, actus essendi, just price, principle of double effect, Occam's razor, pandeism, haecceity, elections and computation theory, formal distinction, calculus, a priory/a posteriory, law of continuity, Boolean algebra, law of continuity, theory of gravity, Boyle's law, Mendelian inheritance, Gaudí’s architecture...
Before finishing, I want to add something. Everything a follower of a certain religion does, if its not done and perceived as an attack to its beliefs is because this religion or philosophy permitted that way of thinking and pushed into it. (Yes, even the internally immoral things or externally inmoral things, the test of time and present peoples opinion tells where everything belongs, paradigms are inevitable.) F.e the most important advances on painting were created by Catholics and i label them as Catholic inventions. Why? Because Catholicism was and its not iconoclast and therefore it culturally demanded for more beautiful and precise depictions of their objects of worship, this pushed the Catholic painters into creating things like oil painting or mathemathical perspective.
@War Peace Dude, lots of Native Americans practiced slavery among themselves, slavery its not a Western invention, it happened everywhere. But when slavery came to an end GLOBALLY its pioneers were Westerners and usually devout Christians like Wilberforce.
Knock knock
"Who's there?"
"It's Jesus let me in"
"Why do you want in?"
"I want to save you"
"Save me from what?"
"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in"
From sin.
Study the word 'sin' and you shall see.
@@chevychelios4672 sin is an offense to god. No god...no sin
@@lawrenceeason8007 I said study the word 'sin' and you shall see. Meaning study the origin word, the literal meaning, the premise, the after effect, the pre and post event etc.
I believe you are a smart person so why do you limit yourself inside your own box?
@@chevychelios4672 okay...tell me your summary of the word and please tell me how that applies to me....meaning what point do you have to tell me
@@lawrenceeason8007
Sin literally means 'miss the mark'
God's will from the beginning of creation was good. He's given humans the earth to possess and to enjoy until they disobeyed the Lprd (they're against God's will) not to eat the forbidden fruit.
If you read Genesis, you will notice that humans were supposed to live healthy and perfect without pain and death within God's presence because He created them in His own image.
We're supposed not to know the concept of good and evil for the forbidden fruit is from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Anything that against God's will is sin.
He came to earth to free us from sin so we may live on earth according to His will, to enjoy the earth as intended. Remember God's will from the beginning was good. We now know the 'concept' of good and evil. If we trust and obey Him, He will bless us so we may live within His peace and He's given us His Son so we may live eternally in the New Earth. That is His promise. The Bible recorded all of His promises and He fulfilled them all while constantly saving His people from sin, from their own false doings.
It's simple, the only thing we must do is to believe in Jesus' works for He is the perfect sacrifice for sin. When we believe we will be given His Spirit (gift of God's personal Spirit also a promise long before Jesus came) so we may live in His blessings and protection.
Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put My Spirit in you and move you to follow My decrees and be careful to keep My laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you.
I was prepared for something I hadn't heard before.
All we got was nonsense and a word salad which proved he has little knowledge of previous civilisations.
@whiteliketar what item was unique?
@@anthonynorman7545 that's what I was thinking
@whiteliketar you mean my natural scepticism?
You honestly think Tom Holland has “little knowledge of previous civilisations”?!
@@althenimble Let's assume he has an encyclopaedic knowledge.
I would assume he would have made a better attempt at answering Grayling's question.
Nothing of what he said was original to Christianity
The Christian faith (through Christ) will give you a desire to see the future when no one else will.
Didn't realize playing Spider-Man was so stressful