Unpacking Durge…. Hey, instead of playing as (possibly) normal character, you instead get to play as a super edgy bhaalspawn who is deep down a murderhobo that for some reason your companions had you become their leader…even though you randomly killed a poor innocent tiefling for no reason. The end.
@@CeaselessEnemy maybe, but I just don’t get why everyone treats Durge like the greatest thing of all time. Maybe the upcoming video will help shed some light on it. 🤷🏻♂️ And yes, I did do an evil Durge playthrough. It just left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially how tepidly companions react to extreme acts of psychopathy, unrealistic to their characters, imo.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027 I'm not trying to be rude, but I didn't really ask what kind of playthrough you did. That said, I can kinda understand. Evil Durge isn't exactly for me either- you miss out on so much story, being the BG3 equivalent of a murder-hobo. I find resist-durge a lot more compelling, personally. My overall point was that your assessment of Durge as a whole concept just kinda oversimplifies the story. Is it violent and edgy? Yeah, but that doesn't make it poorly done. I think the character being edgy and violent is the point. Bhaal is inherently pathetic, as are his offspring- the only goal being omnicide, with the self-justification that life is pain. I view Bhaal as like a nihilistic influender, who views death as everyone's only purpose. That's also what makes Durge interesting to most people, specifically in the resist path- this character constantly struggles to control themselves and an urge that has been forced upon them by a God with a 3rd grade understanding of nihilism. If they don't do as Bhaal wants, they have a harder time with this self-control, because the fact they want to live and let live is the complete antithesis to the reason they exist. There are implications that have given into this urge quite often, but there are also small dialogue moments that imply there were bare hints of someone who wanted more. It kinda parallels Astarion in a way- This Dark Urge character is rewarded for cruelty, and has a harder time doing the right thing- which makes it very important when they DO the right thing, regardless of their purpose.
I always thought that Cazador favored torturing Astarian because he reminds Cazador the most of himself and we always hate what we see of ourselves in others.
That's a good point!! I've seen some speculate that Vellioth may have looked like Astarion, but I like the idea of seeing himself in Astarion, and that kind of supports the theme of Astarion having the choice of kind of turning into Cazador or doing better.
my head cannon is that godey is the friend cazador reached out to, and when cazador free'd himself, he went back and raised that friend's bones to have him again
An important part of Cazador is also his appearance. Astarion hypes him up to be this scary bogeyman the entire game, and then you meet the guy and he is just this depressed loser. I keep seeing people complain about his appearance, that he should look more intimidating, but I love his portrayal because it is so realistic. Those like Cazador are just normal people with jobs and families. Only certain unlucky ones will ever see the monster that lurks inside. And Astarion did and now its all he can see. Only at the very end when he stabs him to death, he can finally see Cazador for what he really was. I do believe that Cazador thinks he is a merciful master, because Velioth has done worse to him. Velioth impaled him for 11 years, so he was being nice by entombing Astarion for "just" 1 year. But I don't actually think he is being better than Velioth, his abuse is just different. It does the same damage, no matter if the scars are physical or mental. The inclusion of Amanita Szarr in my interpretation serves to show that not all vampires are inherently evil (unlike most DnD lore). Because this is first and foremost a story about the cycle of abuse and 'vampire, therefore evil' goes against that theme. If turning into a vampire (perhaps even) against your will, leaves you with no other option than become an abuser, there is nothing to take away from the story.
I think that's probably one of the hardest things to admit to oneself as a victim of abuse (depending on the person's experience, at least). That your abuser wasn't just a scary evil and special monster - that they were also just some person. I guess that also echoes how abuse is easily overlooked because anyone can be abused, anyone can be an abuser, and often times abusers have been victims of abuse themselves at one point.
I was not prepared for Cazador to be such a weenie. He's at least one of the harder boss fights and managed to cause a wipe and a reload on tactician so he at least has that going for him.
I feel like Amanita’s inclusion fits a similar role as Omelum’s in the story, showing the player that there are people who were transformed into these horrible monsters and yet retained their nature, refused to become evil, and decided to help those in similar situations (curiously both by spreading knowledge). Granted, Amanita’s role is a lot smaller but I feel like it should, as Cazador’s role is also a lot smaller and more focused than the Absolute’s and the Dead Three. (Also, in D&D they are moving away from that “certain races are certain alinements”, orcs and other monstrous player races were changed from exclusively evil canonically, so ignoring that vampire rule has precedent in the books)
Also his voice. I've seen complaints about his "old man" voice, but Ketheric also has an "old man" voice and no one is mad about that. But you meet Cazador, and he sounds *feeble*. He sounds harmless. If you'd met him first, are you SURE you'd believe Astarion?
The story of Amanita Szarr is so tragic. Cazador turned her, and gave her the option to either drink humanoid blood or starve. First it was blood that had already been drained. And then he locked her in the attic with a bound captive. He didn't directly command her to kill the captive, but he forbade her from any other options. The guilt she must have felt after caving to her hunger is just heartbreaking. Knowing she was resisting for gods know how long, and then finally relented after her hunger took over. What was going through the captive's mind, I wonder? Did they feel for her? Or did their fear and desperation and anger leave no room for any compassion at all? Did they forgive her? Or did they curse her name? The world may never know.
I might make a short fanfiction about this now that I think about it. There's a D&D character that I made a few years ago that would be absolutely perfect.
I remember thinking he was gonna be a huge menace from what Astarion told me and then I burst out laughing when we meet, seeing him look and sound like a wood elf from oblivion
What I find fascinating is the worldview instilled by this line of vampirism. You can see it with Velioth, Cazador, and Astarion before he even makes the decision to ascend or not, saying that the only thing Cazador did wrong was that he did it to him. In their worldview, there is no good or bad, only victims and those in power. It's such an alien way for most people to view the world, but each spawn spends decades or even centuries having this idea impressed upon them. When you think about the outrageous lengths that need to be taken for someone to view the world in such a twisted way, the more understanding it is that so few people break free of that cycle. Astarion is the only companion who requires you to pass a persuasion check to get his good ending. It just goes to show that by becoming a good person, Astarion isn't just defying fate, he is shattering it.
Or just kill one of the other spawn batteries. If ya do that then cazodor doesnt eat astrian and astrian just murders him when he teleports to heal. Didnt even realize i locked myself out of the ascended ending. Me and my buddy were just sick of reloading and astrian dying cuz he kept getting captured. And we already spent a day and a half on the fight.
Yeah, with the lesson being "an immortal has time to wait and plan" I assumed that Vellioth's lesson to Cazador was basically to say "you idiot, if you were real vampire lord material you would've succeeded in killing me. You're literally immortal and you were impatient enough to make a plan that wasn't guaranteed to win"
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but in the 5e Monster Manual there’s a section of the description of (full) vampires (not spawn, importantly) called Dark Desires that states: “Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.” As such, the idea that so many of his evil actions were spurred on by the desire to have a family or “equals” itself holds a lot of weight. He definitely had a close enough connection to others so as to reach out to his friend, and that desire for connection was twisted when he became a vampire into the construction of a warped, fucked up family unit. This also feels like it plays into the idea that an ascended Astarion could be “better” than Cazador. Inevitably, he can’t, Cazador tried to be better and vampirism shaped that desire into something cruel and obsessive. It’s why astarion becomes an asshole if you allow him to ascend, and when, if you romance him, he claims ownership of you: love twisted to control and obsession. All because Astarion decided to follow in his abuser’s footsteps and complete the ritual. It’s pretty neat to see how well they seem to stick to this pretty specific bit of vampire lore and used it to tell this story. It’s also very fun to play with as a DM when constructing vampire villains imo.
Honestly, I wish more people dug deeper into Cazador. It makes Astarion's storyline so much better because it's basically a cycle of abuse. Cazador was once abused and became the abuser. Astarion, depending on your choices, either ends the cycle or continues it. It's brilliant!
I have this theory that Cazador didn't really know Astarion at all and that his large staff was definitely compensating for something. I seriously think that Cazador hired the Gur to kill Astarion back before our favorite pale elf was turned due to some political stuff. I think that the spawn were definitely used sexually and that Astarion was also used for killing Cazador's political opponents and other enemies. It's why I made Astarion an assassin.
This. For added context, half-elfs only live for around 180 years. So if humans, on average, live to about 75 years, that would make Jaheira exactly 50 in human years.
I have a headcanon that Cazador suffered from sexual/intimacy issues and did not have sex at all. Forcing the spawn to use their bodies and have sex with their victims was not intended as a humiliation ritual, but it was his way of vicariously experiencing sexual passion. Perhaps he even craved love and so he fixated on the ACT of love, since vampires obsess over material symbols for the things they want. He may have even thought the spawn were blessed that they got to spend their lifespans bedding young beauties, and thought they were ingrates for disliking it.
I appreciate the move away from "entire species are inherently evil," but there's so much to be explored with monsters who *become*. Because the only real way to magically turn evil is to lose free will, and if the monster has no free will, how much responsibility do they really bear for their evil actions? You can work to stop them, prevent them from continuing to harm people, you can hate them if they hurt you personally, but can you actually blame them? And what is "morality," anyway? What if the monster magically loses all interest in doing the right thing but also has no motivation to harm others? Did Amanita choose to work against Cazador because she somehow managed to remain "good," or to spite him for what he did to her? And what does that change really look like? For narrative expediency, it's usually shown as a flipped switch, turning into a moustache-twirling villain overnight, but in reality, so much of our behavior is based in habit. If you're used to acting in a certain way, chances are good you'd continue to do so for a while simply because that's just... you. It would take a while for gradual changes to accumulate enough that you're completely, unambiguously evil. I wonder how long Cazador had been a vampire by the time he turned Astarion. Astarion was turned in 1268, so Cazador must already have been a full vampire at that time, even though he didn't succeed Vellioth as Vampire Lord until 1276. Perhaps he did start out kinder, back when he was already a full vampire but still under someone else's thumb, though it had clearly all been ground away by 1268. There's still a lot of nuance to be had within a black-and-white framework of "vampires bad." Yeah, I hate Cazador. In a good playthrough, there's really no choice but to take him out, and it's really satisfying. But damn, I feel sorry for the guy.
Love your analysis of Cazador, and honestly I always wondered if pre-turned Cazador was even remotely a good person. Hard to tell because they game doesn't give us an idea and being turned does change you both physically and mentally. I do like the idea that Cazador pre-vampire is very different from his current self, and it is why he treated his niece so cruelly. Here, his niece is holding onto her morals and rejecting the idea of drinking blood as much as she can, while he is an empty person who has completely lost any form of his identity from his past life. Oh the rage he must felt. Also FYI, the reason Jaheira is old for 150 years is because she is a half-elf, not full elf! The average lifespan of half elves are around 180 years, and since she refused to take the timeless body druid ritual to stop physical aging, she's around her late 60s in human years.
Vampires in D&D (especially in 5e) are heavily based on Bram Stoker's Dracula. Vampires in this edition are evil no matter how good you are in life. That is where the horror comes from. Its kind of like zombies in the way that the person you see in front of you is no longer your loved one. (unless they were already evil AF in life.) All good morals and tendencies are warped to evil. A lawful good oath of redemption paladin that is turned into a vampire would start to corrupt people rather than redeem them, a monk who fasts ritually and eats little would go on to drink as much blood as possible in unlife etc...
What about unpacking Gortash? He is my favorite character and there is so much to his character, especially when it interweaves so much with others! DUrge, Raphael, Karlach, and just the speculations on his motives! This is not even mentioning his parents.
Imo the fact that Cazador calls his spawn "family" and instructs them to refer to each other as siblings seems to be his own unique spin on abuse, as he was seemingly Vellioth's only spawn and thus spent all of his enslavement completely alone; that is, that particular shtick of his is his own creation and way of normalizing abuse. I think the family metaphor is especially apt because, as far as cycles of abuse go, generational relationships are one of the biggest ways trauma and abuse are perpetrated. Think of that one Tweet or whatever that's like "You were beaten as a child and turned out just fine? Clearly not, you think it's okay to beat children." If the spawn are 'siblings' then Cazador is positioning himself, probably deliberately, as a father. The in universe reason for this is unclear; does he see himself as more benevolent and lenient than Vellioth, therefore loving/fatherly to his spawn in comparison? Is it because he was an "only child" of a spawn, so having multiple spawn and calling them a family is a way for him to try and alleviate his solitude and the way he was his master's sole abuse target in some perverse way? It's not like this allegory for family is a reach considering that one line Cazador says about "what is family if not the monsters we are obliged to love?" and how he even refers to Astarion as a prodigal son. Was Cazador alluding (even subconsciously) to the fact that vampirism ran in his own family, meaning that (his) family is LITERALLY the monsters he was obliged to love? Regardless, I do think Cazador's positioning as a father figure in this story about abuse was a very targeted choice. It ties in generational trauma into the theme of cycles of violence, this sort of normalization of violence where our own abusive parents are so steeped in a culture of violence and abuse that they literally do not comprehend their own behavior as being abusive. At least in this case Cazador does see himself as a monster to some extent, but as far as his behavior and words are concerned, it seems the way he copes with it is to simply double down and insist that this abuse of his spawn is simply part of "achieving perfection" or that he is "forgiving" compared to Vellioth. In much the same way that abusive parents justify their actions as just how parents are supposed to raise children or how all of their punishments were justified by some misbehavior of their children. Sorry for the essay I just recently started obsessing with Cazador as a hyperfixation/comfort character (wild I know) and I really appreciate this video existing as proof that ppl are willing to discuss how even horrible monsters like Cazador have depth Edit: I wrote this about halfway through the video and you mentioned a lot of the same stuff lol
And thats why my Drow Necromancer fits so well into that world. Her house seeks power through Necromancy. First by attempting to breed Shadow sorcerers by only mating with Sharen males, but Shar started making them sterile to keep Shadow sorcerers out of Lolth's web. So the house ditched Lolth worship and swapped to Kierransalee the drow goddess of undeath to try and earn her favor to get a lich. And thats where they are now. My Drow is the closest to achieving that goal at her matron mothers command. Lich or die trying.
Wonderfully insightful analysis. It really hammers home how amazingly well written this game is, especially Astarion's questline. I know the AA fangirlies soured your love of Astarion for a while, so I appreciate you dealing with that to make this excellent video.
Did anyone else question if the murder attempt before Cazador turned Astarion was what Astarion thinks. I know I felt it was more likely to me the entire thing was planned. Sort of an I want that one I'll try to rile up some people with a grudge and see what happens, or I want that one I'll pay those people with a grudge to try and kill him so I have leverage.
It's heavily speculated that the group of gur who attacked him was hired by Cazador. I do think of it as a Astarion had it coming moment, with his shitty actions as a magistrate catch up with him like he says, something that would have happened anyway.. But both can be true! I wish we knew more of how and why Cazador picked Astarion to be his spawn.
I’m reading a fanfic right now called Perfect Slaughter that just concluded recently. It explores a lot of the stuff you touched on in the video, and fleshes out the mechanics of both the Rite of Profane Ascension and the Rite of Perfect Slaughter. I highly recommend it, but be warned it’s not a cheery read.
5:20 Jaheira is only a half elf, and while that doesn't make mom any less awesome, it does mean she is pretty old at being over 150 years old. Just a little note to explain that "oddity" ^^
Great analysis. I've always been interested in the idea of vampires and their spawn since the 3.5 book Libris Mortis. I like the implication that every vampire is inherently abusive and toxic to their spawn, but always in a different way from their own sire, as a way of distancing themselves and pretending that they are more merciful and 'progressive' as vampires. Its fascinating that Vellioth denied Cazador friends, and Cazador explicitly allows his spawn friends while abusing them in other ways. Ascended Astarion treats the player spawn almost as an equal, unlike Cazador, but is still subtly controlling and abusive in his own way.
I want to go back and check the dates of Aminita's letters for how long ago that was, because it sounded like the Szarr family was fairly large by then, and from how Astarion had originally mentioned him as the head of the family, it sounded like there were many more Szarrs out there. I wonder if making the spawn into his "family" was his trying to replace the extended family he'd turned, and who'd all died out by then. Cazador had tried to reunite with his family after Velioth was dead and he wouldn't be punished for it again, but over the centuries they were all killed off, leaving him alone. The version of him trapped in his head really must have been miserable, watching himself destroy the family and connections he'd craved.
Great Video. Also to add on speculation, I always thought it was interesting that Astarion compared Malus to Cazador. Malus is remarkably mad and had succumbed to his monstrous state. This is not evidence towards the “monster” leaning towards a literal sense but it always made me wonder if Cazador was just as mad. I supposed you would have to be to be so evil but there’s a difference to me if they can’t control it.
I think whether Cazador experienced SA or not, dude knows sex sells. Sending out a bunch of young, well versed and charming spawn was easy souls. I was a teen in the twilight hype and you cant convince me he wouldnt have THRIVED getting victims in 2010 lol.
This was a lovely video!!! I really hope you continue unpacking these characters, it brings a much clearer understanding of the depth of each one. (i’m Really hoping for an Unpacking Gortash and Maybe The Dark Urge!!)
I remember my mum walked in my room and saw the scene of Astarion stabbing Cazador and was horrified and I was like ‘he deserves it trust me!!’. I didn’t want to get into the fact that he sexually and physically abused my in game boyfriend
5:20 just to precise Jaheira is not an elf she’s a half-elf that’s why she is just 150 years old (half-elves live approximatetly 180 years old) Very good video by the way love you ❤
What about Strahd? Strahd is the first vampire, so he is the longest existing vampire of them all. I wonder if this list just traces Cazador's vampire line, but then all vampire lines should be able to be traced all of the way back to Srahd.
About more characters to analyze for bg3, I wonder if there's enough content to analyze Raphael. Although Raphael might not have as many character insights as plot insights in my opinion. Raphael definitely has... plot significance and such. (a headcanon of mine is that Raphael is essentially the 'mastermind' of the whole game's plot, in a puppetmaster way. Although that is PROBABLY giving him too much credit lol.)
@@PocketLeaves Probably. lol. essentially the headcannon stems from: Raph wants the crown. Mephistopholes had it. Raph had Gortash as a servant. It's revealed that Durge and Gortash stole the crown from Mephistopheles. Raph has some power over the astral prism, presumably. (able to silence it, and in the event you didn't take his deal, he's able to teleport in if you say 'NO. IMMA SIDE WITH ORPHEUS!' (or if you lose it somehow if you did take the deal.) ) Most importantly though, the orphic hammer itself, and Hope's chains being the same as Orpheus. The fact that it is the orphic hammer - > orpheus. Feels like something on the nose that Raph would do. So how it went down: After Raphael was done raging about the crown, he started planning. It is unknown of when in dnd's history the gith rebelled against the mindflayers, but either the devil that Vlakiith made the deal with to seal orpheus was either Raphael, or someone that raphael got power over. He then had the orphic hammer made for insurance so that someone else could free Orpheus. I'm believing that it could have been Raphael that Vlaakith 1 made the deal with, because the similar chains for Hope. Raphael gets the prisim to the mindflayers somehow, leaking it to the church of shar to ensure it ends up in hands other than the mindflayers or githyanki. ( weakest step here tbh admittedly.) Meanwhile, Raphael lets the knowledge of the crown of karsus slip to gortash and 'lets him slip free' so that Durge and Gortash would do the dirty work for him in stealing the crown - he now can get the crown and have some plausible deniability that HE wasn't the one who stole it from his father! He is *INNOCENT* in that regard! Next is the meeting with TAV/Durge/player character. After the crash. He knows that the emperor is keeping the party safe... due to the power/connection to the prism he has. So, he tracks them down. He lets them know that he is an option to solve their problems... He worms his way into your head, making you think of him as an answer... but won't solve your problem because he has plans... Next in the shadow cursed lands, he agrees to answer Astarion's question about his scars without a contract as a way to show 'hey, I stick to my word. I can be trusted. :)' even more so in that Raphael was honest with you about what he was... while the emperor was not. Making you have reason to trust Raphael above the emperor, so that you could give him what he wants when he gives you the ultimate deal in act 3. power. Power and chaos in the realms (as he seems a-okay with it also ending up in mystra's hands, apparently in one of his epilogues, saying it's going to be chaotic... and can SHE be trusted with the crown, IIRC)
For reference, apparently BG3 takes place in 1492 DR, while Karsus's folly, when the crown of Karsus was first used was in -339 DR. So that is a good over 2200 years to plan.
Okay so halfway through the video, I really don’t think we can compare the traumas. Astarion was SA’d and Tortured for 200 years, and Cazador for sure went through similar if not the same, but the point I think, is that there’s a cycle of abuse. Velioth abused Cazador, so Cazador abused his spawn because that’s all he knew. And then if you ascend Astarion, he abused the player and those around him. It’s so sad really…because vampirism is pushed as this “dreamy” “gothic” “desirable” fantasy, but the Truth in the lore for D&D it’s really messed up lol (Also no hate to you I love your unpacking of this just a thought I couldn’t help but comment)
Yeah, I make the same point about cycles of abuse. The only reason there is a point of comparison, is I do believe Cazador compares trauma and deems his worse, which is why he thinks he's a better master. It's more so looking into his mindset then me actually comparing trauma.
I know we don't get a lot of info on the spawn but can you do an analysis of the spawns' relationship with each other and Astarion? If you're at all interested
A universe I think you would enjoy deep diving into would be the fallout universe. For a specific character, one of the best is Joshua Graham. With your love of good character writing you're bound to come across him at some point, but we can't expect god to do all the work...
Isn't me or in a messed up way that they (cazador and astarion) is trying to break the cycle. Ex: astarion didn't force u to become a spawn, u becoming a bride instead a spawn,( but still am asshole) Cazador having a "family", punishment as he a spawn is worse than the ones he made. I'm jus saying 🤔
I like to think Ascended Astarion is drunk on power right after it happens but once he gets a grip he will level out and continue healing and your Tav/Durge as his spawn now has eternity to help him. But I also see how “hurt people hurt people” especially when you hear Astarion change you from “My Love” to “My Pet” it feels very much like he stopped loving us and is right back to manipulating up into falling for his new self. Cazador clearly put value into his actual blood family seeing as we see people with Szar last names mentioned in documents and books but the spawn who aren’t actually family are viewed like mouse traps
@@Louves192 it doesn’t not necessarily but it feels too sudden of a flip for it to be more than a power trip. Also he levels out a small amount during the final party glad to see everyone only mad he wasn’t allowed to host the get together. It feels very like a addict on the road to recovery but still relapsing every so often when shit gets too hard
@@skyesmith5683 Well I guess that's one way to interpret things and I can see that it might look like that if you select very specific dialogue options. Because (according to the script and the dev notes) most of the dialogues are pretty patronizing and he is jealous of the companions who are doing better than him. He is also planning to create more spawn and take over Baldur's Gate. Repressing trauma and your own feelings is not the same as healing.
I disagree with a lot of your take, but I'm so glad you mentioned the drunk/addict comparison bc when I first experienced A-Astarion I personally thought he came off as someone suffering from mania. I mean, he's a super powerful vampire so the "symptoms" are just me imposing mental health rules on a supernatural creature, but the way AA suddenly speaks with such superiority, the way he has massive delusions of grandeur, he even seems to be incredibly high energy as he describes how every passing second feels like hours to him. Idk there's just something special to me about A-Astarion comparisons that compare his situation to that of an addict or untreated mental illness. Idk what it's like to be a vampire ascendant but I can comprehend/empathize with more mundane things like mental health/illness. Really the way Astarion's mannerisms and voice change so noticeably is fascinating to me in general
Hi. I snatched a dead illithid larva from a cat near the moon tower, but I can't find any information about it anywhere. Do you know anything about it?
Not sure why were debating Cazador being a merciful master, the dude was literally willing to sacrifice thousands of lives which he orchestrated for hundreds of years in order to become more powerful. Maybe he views himself as such, but he's nuts if he actually believes that about himself
I mean, no one is saying he actually is merciful. That's just his perception. The only thing is he's more merciful than Vellioth, that's not to say he is ACTUALLY merciful.
You dislike Cazador because of his character, I dislike Cazador because his boss fight sucks. We are not the same. (Cazador's boss fight sucks because he is extremely weak, his stat block is not a good representation of D&D Vampires, and you spend the entire fight just fending off minions.)
OMG last time I did his boss fight, he one shot killed my character 3 times in a row, and one of my friends I was playing with ended up pretty much soloing the fight.
Cazador was such a hilarious flop for me. He's built up to be a seriously bad dude and given a very serious history of abuse and then you meet him and he's got the voice of a villain from He-Man or G.I. Joe and he says the most cartoonishly bland villain stuff it's like oh, I guess we didn't want to get too real with this one, that could result in opinions. It's like how they introduced an interesting political conflict with the refugees in the third act and then didn't have it matter at all and the game never addresses the underlying complexities of the xenophobia they introduced as fun fantasy worldbuilding. Gotta make sure right wingers still play the game, after all.
Hard agree on the political conflicts and xenophbia, but I do think having Cazador be just some guy who actually works in favor of the story. Like irl abusers are just some people who have gained power over their victims through circumstance or charisma or whatever. The feeling of "this is the guy you're scared of, Astarion?" is pretty real imo. When we see Cazador he isn't trying to win our favor, nor is he trying to lure us in. He's focused on tearing Astarion down in the ways he already knows to be effective. With out having an established power dynamic for ourselves, seeing that sort of manipulation from the outside can feel lame and cartoonish, but that's not too far off from irl experiences.
I feel like that's the point. Abusers aren't often that scary for the people outside the abusers reach and control. They even knew you would think that so there was a dialogue option in the game to question Astarions fear of Cazador
I. hate. this. Character. I end him EVERY playthrough, whether I romance Astarion or not. The thing about him that sets me off the most is .... he doesn't look like an all powerful Vampire lord. He looks like evil Steve from accounting. ASTARION is way more terrifying once ascended than Cazador is UNascended. So...why didn't they make him LOOK actually terrifying? Minthara is terrifying in appearance despite being pretty. We ALL know it was possible. ALSO, his voice makes him sound like a used car salesman named Ernie.
I think they made him just some guy to mirror how irl most abusers are just some guy. Although I do wish they would have gone with is earlier design, because it looks really cool. I think the voice fits, but to me it just sounds kind of ancient (I know Cazador isn't THAT old in the grand scheme of things but it makes him feel old in a way that I think works for him)
@@PocketLeaves Oh the VA delivers the lines well. I just hate the voice. He sounds like a little old lady whose voice was slowed down to 33 RPMS on those old 1970s record players. I'm just not a fan. BTW excellent analysis, as always!
You can’t escape Unpacking the Dark Urge forever!
I know! I'm waiting for the patch 7 updates so we can include the new evil endings
Unpacking Durge….
Hey, instead of playing as (possibly) normal character, you instead get to play as a super edgy bhaalspawn who is deep down a murderhobo that for some reason your companions had you become their leader…even though you randomly killed a poor innocent tiefling for no reason.
The end.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027That's a little reductive.
@@CeaselessEnemy maybe, but I just don’t get why everyone treats Durge like the greatest thing of all time. Maybe the upcoming video will help shed some light on it. 🤷🏻♂️ And yes, I did do an evil Durge playthrough. It just left a sour taste in my mouth. Especially how tepidly companions react to extreme acts of psychopathy, unrealistic to their characters, imo.
@@betweenthelakescinema7027 I'm not trying to be rude, but I didn't really ask what kind of playthrough you did. That said, I can kinda understand. Evil Durge isn't exactly for me either- you miss out on so much story, being the BG3 equivalent of a murder-hobo. I find resist-durge a lot more compelling, personally. My overall point was that your assessment of Durge as a whole concept just kinda oversimplifies the story. Is it violent and edgy? Yeah, but that doesn't make it poorly done. I think the character being edgy and violent is the point. Bhaal is inherently pathetic, as are his offspring- the only goal being omnicide, with the self-justification that life is pain. I view Bhaal as like a nihilistic influender, who views death as everyone's only purpose. That's also what makes Durge interesting to most people, specifically in the resist path- this character constantly struggles to control themselves and an urge that has been forced upon them by a God with a 3rd grade understanding of nihilism. If they don't do as Bhaal wants, they have a harder time with this self-control, because the fact they want to live and let live is the complete antithesis to the reason they exist. There are implications that have given into this urge quite often, but there are also small dialogue moments that imply there were bare hints of someone who wanted more. It kinda parallels Astarion in a way- This Dark Urge character is rewarded for cruelty, and has a harder time doing the right thing- which makes it very important when they DO the right thing, regardless of their purpose.
I always thought that Cazador favored torturing Astarian because he reminds Cazador the most of himself and we always hate what we see of ourselves in others.
That's a good point!! I've seen some speculate that Vellioth may have looked like Astarion, but I like the idea of seeing himself in Astarion, and that kind of supports the theme of Astarion having the choice of kind of turning into Cazador or doing better.
my head cannon is that godey is the friend cazador reached out to, and when cazador free'd himself, he went back and raised that friend's bones to have him again
Ooooh!! I like that head cannon!
An important part of Cazador is also his appearance. Astarion hypes him up to be this scary bogeyman the entire game, and then you meet the guy and he is just this depressed loser. I keep seeing people complain about his appearance, that he should look more intimidating, but I love his portrayal because it is so realistic. Those like Cazador are just normal people with jobs and families. Only certain unlucky ones will ever see the monster that lurks inside. And Astarion did and now its all he can see. Only at the very end when he stabs him to death, he can finally see Cazador for what he really was.
I do believe that Cazador thinks he is a merciful master, because Velioth has done worse to him. Velioth impaled him for 11 years, so he was being nice by entombing Astarion for "just" 1 year. But I don't actually think he is being better than Velioth, his abuse is just different. It does the same damage, no matter if the scars are physical or mental.
The inclusion of Amanita Szarr in my interpretation serves to show that not all vampires are inherently evil (unlike most DnD lore). Because this is first and foremost a story about the cycle of abuse and 'vampire, therefore evil' goes against that theme. If turning into a vampire (perhaps even) against your will, leaves you with no other option than become an abuser, there is nothing to take away from the story.
I think that's probably one of the hardest things to admit to oneself as a victim of abuse (depending on the person's experience, at least). That your abuser wasn't just a scary evil and special monster - that they were also just some person.
I guess that also echoes how abuse is easily overlooked because anyone can be abused, anyone can be an abuser, and often times abusers have been victims of abuse themselves at one point.
I was not prepared for Cazador to be such a weenie.
He's at least one of the harder boss fights and managed to cause a wipe and a reload on tactician so he at least has that going for him.
I feel like Amanita’s inclusion fits a similar role as Omelum’s in the story, showing the player that there are people who were transformed into these horrible monsters and yet retained their nature, refused to become evil, and decided to help those in similar situations (curiously both by spreading knowledge). Granted, Amanita’s role is a lot smaller but I feel like it should, as Cazador’s role is also a lot smaller and more focused than the Absolute’s and the Dead Three.
(Also, in D&D they are moving away from that “certain races are certain alinements”, orcs and other monstrous player races were changed from exclusively evil canonically, so ignoring that vampire rule has precedent in the books)
Also his voice. I've seen complaints about his "old man" voice, but Ketheric also has an "old man" voice and no one is mad about that.
But you meet Cazador, and he sounds *feeble*. He sounds harmless. If you'd met him first, are you SURE you'd believe Astarion?
Not depressed. Narcissistic. Loser however is apt.
The story of Amanita Szarr is so tragic. Cazador turned her, and gave her the option to either drink humanoid blood or starve. First it was blood that had already been drained. And then he locked her in the attic with a bound captive. He didn't directly command her to kill the captive, but he forbade her from any other options. The guilt she must have felt after caving to her hunger is just heartbreaking. Knowing she was resisting for gods know how long, and then finally relented after her hunger took over.
What was going through the captive's mind, I wonder? Did they feel for her? Or did their fear and desperation and anger leave no room for any compassion at all? Did they forgive her? Or did they curse her name? The world may never know.
I might make a short fanfiction about this now that I think about it. There's a D&D character that I made a few years ago that would be absolutely perfect.
@@emmasilver2332 Hope you share if you do
@@CakeandCosplay I'm writing it right now and I'm so excited
**Unpacks Cazador**
**Looks inside**
"It's... there's nothing there! He's completely empty! Can you believe this shit, Astarion?"
I remember thinking he was gonna be a huge menace from what Astarion told me and then I burst out laughing when we meet, seeing him look and sound like a wood elf from oblivion
bros got eso mannimarco energy
What I find fascinating is the worldview instilled by this line of vampirism. You can see it with Velioth, Cazador, and Astarion before he even makes the decision to ascend or not, saying that the only thing Cazador did wrong was that he did it to him. In their worldview, there is no good or bad, only victims and those in power. It's such an alien way for most people to view the world, but each spawn spends decades or even centuries having this idea impressed upon them.
When you think about the outrageous lengths that need to be taken for someone to view the world in such a twisted way, the more understanding it is that so few people break free of that cycle. Astarion is the only companion who requires you to pass a persuasion check to get his good ending. It just goes to show that by becoming a good person, Astarion isn't just defying fate, he is shattering it.
Does that worldview really exist super far from people in reality?
@@zacharybosley1935 So many actual human people in the real world have this world view...
Or just kill one of the other spawn batteries. If ya do that then cazodor doesnt eat astrian and astrian just murders him when he teleports to heal. Didnt even realize i locked myself out of the ascended ending. Me and my buddy were just sick of reloading and astrian dying cuz he kept getting captured. And we already spent a day and a half on the fight.
I think the rhing of "he was impaled because he failed"- i always interpreted that as Cazador tried to kill Vellioth and failed.
Yeah, with the lesson being "an immortal has time to wait and plan" I assumed that Vellioth's lesson to Cazador was basically to say "you idiot, if you were real vampire lord material you would've succeeded in killing me. You're literally immortal and you were impatient enough to make a plan that wasn't guaranteed to win"
I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but in the 5e Monster Manual there’s a section of the description of (full) vampires (not spawn, importantly) called Dark Desires that states:
“Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed.”
As such, the idea that so many of his evil actions were spurred on by the desire to have a family or “equals” itself holds a lot of weight. He definitely had a close enough connection to others so as to reach out to his friend, and that desire for connection was twisted when he became a vampire into the construction of a warped, fucked up family unit. This also feels like it plays into the idea that an ascended Astarion could be “better” than Cazador. Inevitably, he can’t, Cazador tried to be better and vampirism shaped that desire into something cruel and obsessive. It’s why astarion becomes an asshole if you allow him to ascend, and when, if you romance him, he claims ownership of you: love twisted to control and obsession. All because Astarion decided to follow in his abuser’s footsteps and complete the ritual. It’s pretty neat to see how well they seem to stick to this pretty specific bit of vampire lore and used it to tell this story. It’s also very fun to play with as a DM when constructing vampire villains imo.
Honestly, I wish more people dug deeper into Cazador. It makes Astarion's storyline so much better because it's basically a cycle of abuse. Cazador was once abused and became the abuser. Astarion, depending on your choices, either ends the cycle or continues it. It's brilliant!
I like the idea of a villain that endeavors to be a less evil version of their master. Also I like vampires too, they're fun.
Vampires are really fun!!
Me too! My favourite has to be Lestat ❤
I have this theory that Cazador didn't really know Astarion at all and that his large staff was definitely compensating for something. I seriously think that Cazador hired the Gur to kill Astarion back before our favorite pale elf was turned due to some political stuff. I think that the spawn were definitely used sexually and that Astarion was also used for killing Cazador's political opponents and other enemies. It's why I made Astarion an assassin.
Jaheira is old because she's only a half elf!
This.
For added context, half-elfs only live for around 180 years.
So if humans, on average, live to about 75 years, that would make Jaheira exactly 50 in human years.
I have a headcanon that Cazador suffered from sexual/intimacy issues and did not have sex at all. Forcing the spawn to use their bodies and have sex with their victims was not intended as a humiliation ritual, but it was his way of vicariously experiencing sexual passion. Perhaps he even craved love and so he fixated on the ACT of love, since vampires obsess over material symbols for the things they want. He may have even thought the spawn were blessed that they got to spend their lifespans bedding young beauties, and thought they were ingrates for disliking it.
A Mizora video would be super interesting to see!
I appreciate the move away from "entire species are inherently evil," but there's so much to be explored with monsters who *become*. Because the only real way to magically turn evil is to lose free will, and if the monster has no free will, how much responsibility do they really bear for their evil actions? You can work to stop them, prevent them from continuing to harm people, you can hate them if they hurt you personally, but can you actually blame them?
And what is "morality," anyway? What if the monster magically loses all interest in doing the right thing but also has no motivation to harm others? Did Amanita choose to work against Cazador because she somehow managed to remain "good," or to spite him for what he did to her?
And what does that change really look like? For narrative expediency, it's usually shown as a flipped switch, turning into a moustache-twirling villain overnight, but in reality, so much of our behavior is based in habit. If you're used to acting in a certain way, chances are good you'd continue to do so for a while simply because that's just... you. It would take a while for gradual changes to accumulate enough that you're completely, unambiguously evil. I wonder how long Cazador had been a vampire by the time he turned Astarion. Astarion was turned in 1268, so Cazador must already have been a full vampire at that time, even though he didn't succeed Vellioth as Vampire Lord until 1276. Perhaps he did start out kinder, back when he was already a full vampire but still under someone else's thumb, though it had clearly all been ground away by 1268.
There's still a lot of nuance to be had within a black-and-white framework of "vampires bad." Yeah, I hate Cazador. In a good playthrough, there's really no choice but to take him out, and it's really satisfying. But damn, I feel sorry for the guy.
Now let's see how long it takes for a certain somebody to comment "Cazadaddy," lmao.
10/10 analysis though, as always!
aw BROTHER this guy STINKSSSS
A Cazaddy video is crazy
Cazaddy it’s crazy.
HANNAH NOT YOU TOO
Love your analysis of Cazador, and honestly I always wondered if pre-turned Cazador was even remotely a good person. Hard to tell because they game doesn't give us an idea and being turned does change you both physically and mentally.
I do like the idea that Cazador pre-vampire is very different from his current self, and it is why he treated his niece so cruelly. Here, his niece is holding onto her morals and rejecting the idea of drinking blood as much as she can, while he is an empty person who has completely lost any form of his identity from his past life. Oh the rage he must felt.
Also FYI, the reason Jaheira is old for 150 years is because she is a half-elf, not full elf! The average lifespan of half elves are around 180 years, and since she refused to take the timeless body druid ritual to stop physical aging, she's around her late 60s in human years.
OH! That makes so much sense for Jaheira! Idk how I missed that she was a half elf instead of a full elf.
Vampires in D&D (especially in 5e) are heavily based on Bram Stoker's Dracula. Vampires in this edition are evil no matter how good you are in life. That is where the horror comes from. Its kind of like zombies in the way that the person you see in front of you is no longer your loved one. (unless they were already evil AF in life.) All good morals and tendencies are warped to evil. A lawful good oath of redemption paladin that is turned into a vampire would start to corrupt people rather than redeem them, a monk who fasts ritually and eats little would go on to drink as much blood as possible in unlife etc...
What about unpacking Gortash? He is my favorite character and there is so much to his character, especially when it interweaves so much with others! DUrge, Raphael, Karlach, and just the speculations on his motives! This is not even mentioning his parents.
You’re pulling off that look so well! I’m excited for another installment of my favorite BG3 series
Imo the fact that Cazador calls his spawn "family" and instructs them to refer to each other as siblings seems to be his own unique spin on abuse, as he was seemingly Vellioth's only spawn and thus spent all of his enslavement completely alone; that is, that particular shtick of his is his own creation and way of normalizing abuse.
I think the family metaphor is especially apt because, as far as cycles of abuse go, generational relationships are one of the biggest ways trauma and abuse are perpetrated. Think of that one Tweet or whatever that's like "You were beaten as a child and turned out just fine? Clearly not, you think it's okay to beat children." If the spawn are 'siblings' then Cazador is positioning himself, probably deliberately, as a father. The in universe reason for this is unclear; does he see himself as more benevolent and lenient than Vellioth, therefore loving/fatherly to his spawn in comparison? Is it because he was an "only child" of a spawn, so having multiple spawn and calling them a family is a way for him to try and alleviate his solitude and the way he was his master's sole abuse target in some perverse way? It's not like this allegory for family is a reach considering that one line Cazador says about "what is family if not the monsters we are obliged to love?" and how he even refers to Astarion as a prodigal son. Was Cazador alluding (even subconsciously) to the fact that vampirism ran in his own family, meaning that (his) family is LITERALLY the monsters he was obliged to love?
Regardless, I do think Cazador's positioning as a father figure in this story about abuse was a very targeted choice. It ties in generational trauma into the theme of cycles of violence, this sort of normalization of violence where our own abusive parents are so steeped in a culture of violence and abuse that they literally do not comprehend their own behavior as being abusive. At least in this case Cazador does see himself as a monster to some extent, but as far as his behavior and words are concerned, it seems the way he copes with it is to simply double down and insist that this abuse of his spawn is simply part of "achieving perfection" or that he is "forgiving" compared to Vellioth. In much the same way that abusive parents justify their actions as just how parents are supposed to raise children or how all of their punishments were justified by some misbehavior of their children.
Sorry for the essay I just recently started obsessing with Cazador as a hyperfixation/comfort character (wild I know) and I really appreciate this video existing as proof that ppl are willing to discuss how even horrible monsters like Cazador have depth
Edit: I wrote this about halfway through the video and you mentioned a lot of the same stuff lol
And thats why my Drow Necromancer fits so well into that world. Her house seeks power through Necromancy. First by attempting to breed Shadow sorcerers by only mating with Sharen males, but Shar started making them sterile to keep Shadow sorcerers out of Lolth's web. So the house ditched Lolth worship and swapped to Kierransalee the drow goddess of undeath to try and earn her favor to get a lich. And thats where they are now. My Drow is the closest to achieving that goal at her matron mothers command. Lich or die trying.
Wonderfully insightful analysis. It really hammers home how amazingly well written this game is, especially Astarion's questline. I know the AA fangirlies soured your love of Astarion for a while, so I appreciate you dealing with that to make this excellent video.
Did anyone else question if the murder attempt before Cazador turned Astarion was what Astarion thinks. I know I felt it was more likely to me the entire thing was planned. Sort of an I want that one I'll try to rile up some people with a grudge and see what happens, or I want that one I'll pay those people with a grudge to try and kill him so I have leverage.
It's heavily speculated that the group of gur who attacked him was hired by Cazador. I do think of it as a Astarion had it coming moment, with his shitty actions as a magistrate catch up with him like he says, something that would have happened anyway.. But both can be true! I wish we knew more of how and why Cazador picked Astarion to be his spawn.
I’m reading a fanfic right now called Perfect Slaughter that just concluded recently. It explores a lot of the stuff you touched on in the video, and fleshes out the mechanics of both the Rite of Profane Ascension and the Rite of Perfect Slaughter. I highly recommend it, but be warned it’s not a cheery read.
AO3?
@@grumpynoodlejen5616Yep! Super easy to find.
5:20 Jaheira is only a half elf, and while that doesn't make mom any less awesome, it does mean she is pretty old at being over 150 years old. Just a little note to explain that "oddity" ^^
I would love to see an analysis of Rolan. He grew into one of my favorite tiefling side characters out of nowhere.
Great analysis. I've always been interested in the idea of vampires and their spawn since the 3.5 book Libris Mortis. I like the implication that every vampire is inherently abusive and toxic to their spawn, but always in a different way from their own sire, as a way of distancing themselves and pretending that they are more merciful and 'progressive' as vampires. Its fascinating that Vellioth denied Cazador friends, and Cazador explicitly allows his spawn friends while abusing them in other ways. Ascended Astarion treats the player spawn almost as an equal, unlike Cazador, but is still subtly controlling and abusive in his own way.
ITS HERE
I want to go back and check the dates of Aminita's letters for how long ago that was, because it sounded like the Szarr family was fairly large by then, and from how Astarion had originally mentioned him as the head of the family, it sounded like there were many more Szarrs out there. I wonder if making the spawn into his "family" was his trying to replace the extended family he'd turned, and who'd all died out by then. Cazador had tried to reunite with his family after Velioth was dead and he wouldn't be punished for it again, but over the centuries they were all killed off, leaving him alone. The version of him trapped in his head really must have been miserable, watching himself destroy the family and connections he'd craved.
There is actually a lot that you can learn about gortash and how he learned about certain things that have a direct effect in the story.
I cant help but stare at that little Abbacchino figure in the back. Best goth.
These unpacking videos have been really great. Glad I found your channel!
Great Video. Also to add on speculation, I always thought it was interesting that Astarion compared Malus to Cazador. Malus is remarkably mad and had succumbed to his monstrous state. This is not evidence towards the “monster” leaning towards a literal sense but it always made me wonder if Cazador was just as mad. I supposed you would have to be to be so evil but there’s a difference to me if they can’t control it.
Great video! Really did make me think deeply on Cazador 😮
Babe wake up new pocket leaves unpacking BG3 video just dropped (I love ur content, I'm so excited for more of it, mizora unpacking when?)
5:16 Jaheira is only a half-elf so she is only going to live a fraction of a proper elves lifespan
I think whether Cazador experienced SA or not, dude knows sex sells. Sending out a bunch of young, well versed and charming spawn was easy souls. I was a teen in the twilight hype and you cant convince me he wouldnt have THRIVED getting victims in 2010 lol.
This was a lovely video!!! I really hope you continue unpacking these characters, it brings a much clearer understanding of the depth of each one. (i’m Really hoping for an Unpacking Gortash and Maybe The Dark Urge!!)
Jaheria is a half-elf, not a full elf. Half-elves have a life expectancy of around 180 years. So she is definitely getting up there
Very good points here. I noticed them, too.
More villain unpackings! Love this series ❤
another great video, i'm obsessed with these
NEW POCKET LEAVES VIDEO. BEST. SUNDAY. EVER!!!! 😁
Fun fact: Cazador is the only Oblivion character in Baldur’s Gate.
Who’s to say cazador and astarions reasoning for ascending arent the same? To not fear *anyone ever again*
OMG yeah I can see that, especially if you're looking at Cazador and Vellioth as a parallel to Astarion and Cazador.
I remember my mum walked in my room and saw the scene of Astarion stabbing Cazador and was horrified and I was like ‘he deserves it trust me!!’.
I didn’t want to get into the fact that he sexually and physically abused my in game boyfriend
Amazing analysis!! 🙏
Ok I have no idea if it’s something you plan to do but could we get a video on Raphael? Possibly?
5:20 just to precise Jaheira is not an elf she’s a half-elf that’s why she is just 150 years old (half-elves live approximatetly 180 years old)
Very good video by the way love you ❤
Laezel has the best romance in my opinion
great vid.
The SIZE of the location is just absolutely insane I couldn't believe it just kept GOING
omg yeah, there's so much to explore in Cazador's manor.
What about Strahd? Strahd is the first vampire, so he is the longest existing vampire of them all. I wonder if this list just traces Cazador's vampire line, but then all vampire lines should be able to be traced all of the way back to Srahd.
Unpacking the Doughbag: Cazador
About more characters to analyze for bg3, I wonder if there's enough content to analyze Raphael. Although Raphael might not have as many character insights as plot insights in my opinion. Raphael definitely has... plot significance and such. (a headcanon of mine is that Raphael is essentially the 'mastermind' of the whole game's plot, in a puppetmaster way. Although that is PROBABLY giving him too much credit lol.)
Raphael would be so pleased to hear that headcanon though!
@@PocketLeaves Probably. lol.
essentially the headcannon stems from:
Raph wants the crown.
Mephistopholes had it.
Raph had Gortash as a servant.
It's revealed that Durge and Gortash stole the crown from Mephistopheles.
Raph has some power over the astral prism, presumably. (able to silence it, and in the event you didn't take his deal, he's able to teleport in if you say 'NO. IMMA SIDE WITH ORPHEUS!' (or if you lose it somehow if you did take the deal.) )
Most importantly though, the orphic hammer itself, and Hope's chains being the same as Orpheus. The fact that it is the orphic hammer - > orpheus. Feels like something on the nose that Raph would do.
So how it went down: After Raphael was done raging about the crown, he started planning. It is unknown of when in dnd's history the gith rebelled against the mindflayers, but either the devil that Vlakiith made the deal with to seal orpheus was either Raphael, or someone that raphael got power over. He then had the orphic hammer made for insurance so that someone else could free Orpheus. I'm believing that it could have been Raphael that Vlaakith 1 made the deal with, because the similar chains for Hope.
Raphael gets the prisim to the mindflayers somehow, leaking it to the church of shar to ensure it ends up in hands other than the mindflayers or githyanki. ( weakest step here tbh admittedly.)
Meanwhile, Raphael lets the knowledge of the crown of karsus slip to gortash and 'lets him slip free' so that Durge and Gortash would do the dirty work for him in stealing the crown - he now can get the crown and have some plausible deniability that HE wasn't the one who stole it from his father! He is *INNOCENT* in that regard!
Next is the meeting with TAV/Durge/player character. After the crash. He knows that the emperor is keeping the party safe... due to the power/connection to the prism he has. So, he tracks them down. He lets them know that he is an option to solve their problems... He worms his way into your head, making you think of him as an answer... but won't solve your problem because he has plans... Next in the shadow cursed lands, he agrees to answer Astarion's question about his scars without a contract as a way to show 'hey, I stick to my word. I can be trusted. :)' even more so in that Raphael was honest with you about what he was... while the emperor was not. Making you have reason to trust Raphael above the emperor, so that you could give him what he wants when he gives you the ultimate deal in act 3.
power.
Power and chaos in the realms (as he seems a-okay with it also ending up in mystra's hands, apparently in one of his epilogues, saying it's going to be chaotic... and can SHE be trusted with the crown, IIRC)
For reference, apparently BG3 takes place in 1492 DR, while Karsus's folly, when the crown of Karsus was first used was in -339 DR. So that is a good over 2200 years to plan.
EVERYONE WAKE UP LEAF POSTED ABOUT CAZADOR!
Okay so halfway through the video, I really don’t think we can compare the traumas. Astarion was SA’d and Tortured for 200 years, and Cazador for sure went through similar if not the same, but the point I think, is that there’s a cycle of abuse. Velioth abused Cazador, so Cazador abused his spawn because that’s all he knew. And then if you ascend Astarion, he abused the player and those around him. It’s so sad really…because vampirism is pushed as this “dreamy” “gothic” “desirable” fantasy, but the
Truth in the lore for D&D it’s really messed up lol
(Also no hate to you I love your unpacking of this just a thought I couldn’t help but comment)
Yeah, I make the same point about cycles of abuse. The only reason there is a point of comparison, is I do believe Cazador compares trauma and deems his worse, which is why he thinks he's a better master. It's more so looking into his mindset then me actually comparing trauma.
I know we don't get a lot of info on the spawn but can you do an analysis of the spawns' relationship with each other and Astarion? If you're at all interested
A universe I think you would enjoy deep diving into would be the fallout universe. For a specific character, one of the best is Joshua Graham. With your love of good character writing you're bound to come across him at some point, but we can't expect god to do all the work...
HC is that Caz hates astarion because he looks like Vellioth
Cazadors aggh their in balders gate too bad enough in New Vegas!
pls say hi to your abbacio nendoroid for me
Isn't me or in a messed up way that they (cazador and astarion) is trying to break the cycle.
Ex: astarion didn't force u to become a spawn, u becoming a bride instead a spawn,( but still am asshole)
Cazador having a "family", punishment as he a spawn is worse than the ones he made. I'm jus saying 🤔
Lol, immortality is "draining."
I like to think Ascended Astarion is drunk on power right after it happens but once he gets a grip he will level out and continue healing and your Tav/Durge as his spawn now has eternity to help him. But I also see how “hurt people hurt people” especially when you hear Astarion change you from “My Love” to “My Pet” it feels very much like he stopped loving us and is right back to manipulating up into falling for his new self.
Cazador clearly put value into his actual blood family seeing as we see people with Szar last names mentioned in documents and books but the spawn who aren’t actually family are viewed like mouse traps
I would like to know where in the ascended path it shows that he might be healing? What is the theme here if he heals in both paths?
@@Louves192 it doesn’t not necessarily but it feels too sudden of a flip for it to be more than a power trip. Also he levels out a small amount during the final party glad to see everyone only mad he wasn’t allowed to host the get together. It feels very like a addict on the road to recovery but still relapsing every so often when shit gets too hard
@@skyesmith5683 Well I guess that's one way to interpret things and I can see that it might look like that if you select very specific dialogue options. Because (according to the script and the dev notes) most of the dialogues are pretty patronizing and he is jealous of the companions who are doing better than him. He is also planning to create more spawn and take over Baldur's Gate. Repressing trauma and your own feelings is not the same as healing.
I disagree with a lot of your take, but I'm so glad you mentioned the drunk/addict comparison bc when I first experienced A-Astarion I personally thought he came off as someone suffering from mania. I mean, he's a super powerful vampire so the "symptoms" are just me imposing mental health rules on a supernatural creature, but the way AA suddenly speaks with such superiority, the way he has massive delusions of grandeur, he even seems to be incredibly high energy as he describes how every passing second feels like hours to him. Idk there's just something special to me about A-Astarion comparisons that compare his situation to that of an addict or untreated mental illness. Idk what it's like to be a vampire ascendant but I can comprehend/empathize with more mundane things like mental health/illness. Really the way Astarion's mannerisms and voice change so noticeably is fascinating to me in general
Why do I feel like cazador to astarian is very similar to Valentino to angel dust?
YES
Jaheira is a half elf. Not full elf
Mol. Because she herself would say so =P
Mass effect Legendary Edition now discounted on Steam until July 11th
Have you read the description of Cazadors Dagger?
We gonna unpack Veleoth too?
Not Minsc... so maybe Jaheira instead?
Hi. I snatched a dead illithid larva from a cat near the moon tower, but I can't find any information about it anywhere. Do you know anything about it?
Is it the furless cat that says it’s hunting the larva?
It doesn't really do anything, just a clue to let you know you're on the right track looking for the source of the tadpoles.
Unfortunately it's just a dead tadpole and you can't actually consume it for power
Where did you get the Astarions fine wines poster from?
I got it from the artist A Sunny Disposish at a convention! asunnydisposish.carrd.co/
@@PocketLeaves thank you for the answer! 💖
Not sure why were debating Cazador being a merciful master, the dude was literally willing to sacrifice thousands of lives which he orchestrated for hundreds of years in order to become more powerful. Maybe he views himself as such, but he's nuts if he actually believes that about himself
I mean, no one is saying he actually is merciful. That's just his perception. The only thing is he's more merciful than Vellioth, that's not to say he is ACTUALLY merciful.
jaheira looks old because she's only half elven!
You dislike Cazador because of his character, I dislike Cazador because his boss fight sucks. We are not the same.
(Cazador's boss fight sucks because he is extremely weak, his stat block is not a good representation of D&D Vampires, and you spend the entire fight just fending off minions.)
and yes, I am still pissed I was able to kill him with just 3 divine smites. (AFTER HE ASCENDED AND EVERYTHING!)
OMG last time I did his boss fight, he one shot killed my character 3 times in a row, and one of my friends I was playing with ended up pretty much soloing the fight.
First! 😊
Cazador was such a hilarious flop for me. He's built up to be a seriously bad dude and given a very serious history of abuse and then you meet him and he's got the voice of a villain from He-Man or G.I. Joe and he says the most cartoonishly bland villain stuff it's like oh, I guess we didn't want to get too real with this one, that could result in opinions. It's like how they introduced an interesting political conflict with the refugees in the third act and then didn't have it matter at all and the game never addresses the underlying complexities of the xenophobia they introduced as fun fantasy worldbuilding. Gotta make sure right wingers still play the game, after all.
Hard agree on the political conflicts and xenophbia, but I do think having Cazador be just some guy who actually works in favor of the story. Like irl abusers are just some people who have gained power over their victims through circumstance or charisma or whatever. The feeling of "this is the guy you're scared of, Astarion?" is pretty real imo. When we see Cazador he isn't trying to win our favor, nor is he trying to lure us in. He's focused on tearing Astarion down in the ways he already knows to be effective. With out having an established power dynamic for ourselves, seeing that sort of manipulation from the outside can feel lame and cartoonish, but that's not too far off from irl experiences.
Probably the most disappointing villain. Does anyone remember Elder Scrolls Oblivion? Cazador will sounds like a wood elf. That's not a compliment.
I feel like that's the point. Abusers aren't often that scary for the people outside the abusers reach and control. They even knew you would think that so there was a dialogue option in the game to question Astarions fear of Cazador
I. hate. this. Character. I end him EVERY playthrough, whether I romance Astarion or not. The thing about him that sets me off the most is .... he doesn't look like an all powerful Vampire lord. He looks like evil Steve from accounting. ASTARION is way more terrifying once ascended than Cazador is UNascended. So...why didn't they make him LOOK actually terrifying? Minthara is terrifying in appearance despite being pretty. We ALL know it was possible. ALSO, his voice makes him sound like a used car salesman named Ernie.
I think they made him just some guy to mirror how irl most abusers are just some guy. Although I do wish they would have gone with is earlier design, because it looks really cool. I think the voice fits, but to me it just sounds kind of ancient (I know Cazador isn't THAT old in the grand scheme of things but it makes him feel old in a way that I think works for him)
@@PocketLeaves Oh the VA delivers the lines well. I just hate the voice. He sounds like a little old lady whose voice was slowed down to 33 RPMS on those old 1970s record players. I'm just not a fan. BTW excellent analysis, as always!
Cuz a Door