11:08 and Boris' statement that "we got nothing from the Rosenbergs". This is definitely not true. But what they got in terms of nuclear bomb plans was some juvenile sketches from David Greenglass and some typing by Ruth Prinz Greenglass. The information helped validate much more complex manuscripts coming from K. Fuchs. J Rosenberg allegedly handed over a working proximity fuse from the plant he was working at in the NY area. This was a state secret at the time for fear that the Germans would get details of the design. Eventually the soviets reverse engineered it. This video omits the important fact that the Rosenbergs were prosecuted under the 1917 WWI espionage act which made it easier to execute than under the Atomic control act which was more applicable. David Greenglass undoubtedly handed over his own Sister, Ethel, in place of his implicated wife and the US government knew about it. Ruth Greenglass had a soviet pseudonym in the Venona transcripts but Ethel does not . She is described by her age and as the wife of Julius, but has no codename. That would suggest that Ethel provided minimal information or activity in her own right. Tim F
The judge who sentenced the Rosenbergs to death was also Jewish. If there was any antisemitism involved, maybe that judge thought that the two Communist spies and all their other Jewish fellow travellers were bringing the whole religion/community, including non-communist Jews like him, into disrepute. I think he also took into consideration that their espionage leading to the Soviet's acquisition of the atom bomb had emboldened Stalin to allow the Korean War to be started, costing American lives.
So you're saying that instead of the Korean War, the crazy Douglas McArthur should have been allowed to nuke China? Which would then have caused millions of deaths from the USSR striking back justifiably?
can you cover the Chinese civil war, between 1945-1949. I know the communist won but have no idea how the events unfolded for that to take place. Would definitely be an interesting topic, to me at least.
Please make a video on the sino-soviet split. It's was a huge geopolitical event because it spilt up the communist block in two and paved the way to the modern PRC. Great video thanks again.
LOL, do you know what the Shanghai Corp is? There is a Russia-Shanghai Corp. Because the USA will not fix what they break, and politicians continue to get away with their crimes, and CIA is nothing but a terrorist organization - no doubt the Shanghai Corp will soon Tower over USA, which is imploding on itself. The dirtbag politicians are inciting war just to pay for their damn crimes! They are NAZIS, real traitors - unlike the Rosenbergs, who most likely sought to support their Jewish Nation. Who can blame them?
Yeah ethel was a spy too so what if she had a smaller role. If He gave up their sources he could have saved them both. Executing them and orphaning there kids sent a message to anybody considering spying. It makes more sense to give the death penalty there than even too murderers in which the death penalty does less to actually deter.
Married to a spy = she almost certainly knew. They both denied til the end. If she was innocent he should have taken responsibility and admitted it was all him.
Quite frankly, I get annoyed every time I see an article trying to get me to overly sympathize with the likes of them. They were traitors who didn't even try to give any sort of story to defend themselves. They're traitors and the reasons their children were orphaned.
They don't need to give a story because the fifth amendment protects one against self incrimination. Julus could have made an affirmative defense that he was indeed a Soviet Spy and while he did not give away the secret to the bomb he would done so to prevent mad men like General MacArthur getting an easy go ahead by President Truman for dropping the bomb on Chinese and Soviet Cities needlessly killing million of human beings in a third world war. The fact that Stalin got the bomb when he did made Mutual assured destruction possible. It prevented a third world war for the time being.
Exactly, and even if Ethel played a small role she and her husband were uncooperative with authorities. They traded intel on weapons of mass destruction with a foreign adversary. Which is treason with penalty of death. I see no reason to sympathize with traders, who put the safety of their country at risk.
@@ameerelayyan Sorry the treason Charge is well defined in the US Constitution. Two witness to an overt act of giving aid and comfort to the Enemies of the United States. The only treason convictions the government has ever obtained are for US citizens engaging in activity on behave of a Country that Congress has declared war on Not even General Lee was so charged. At no time during the "cold war" were we ever officially at war with Korea, China, Cuba, Vietnam or the Soviet Union. The law involved is the same one Donald Trump is accused of violating the Espionage Act of 1917. Do you want Trump sent away based upon evidence you can't see? Maybe Trump should just throw himself on the mercy of a court and a Democratic Party engineered frame job? Also they traded nothing the government never alleged they received a red cent. They just as much evidence that Bush did of Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destrution and being the "Next Hitler". People such as yourself will march off a cliff before waking up.
@@ameerelayyanyeah dude, we Americans are gonna fascist. It's in our nature to bully and suppress true democracy for the working class. Corporations' profits and the military industrial complex are what matter in the good old US of A. How dare people want to support a system that prioritizes human needs of the laboring majority over the wealth of a ruling economically-undemocratic minority. Glad our education and media produces ignorance like yours or else our capitalist Oligarchy might be in jeopardy.
Everybody is innocent until proven otherwise. If there is no credible evidence or the due process is not followed any decision the judge makes is illegal, null and void. Very simple law 101. It does not matter if they are spies or not. Your emotions and conviction is irrelevant. Your patriotism is denied. Period.
I really enjoy this channel. I did my military service just after the Cold War ended, but the "Soviet Threat," was still very real. I like learning about this era because it was, very much, dominated by spy games...and, I'm woefully ignorant of COLD War history. This channel is awesome! Thank you.
@davebrayfb if you went to elementary school, you'd know when you had drills to hide under your desk. If you paid attention to any newspaper back then, the red threat was real. You didn't need to be well versed. You just had to pay attention
@@DonRamiro1 Shortly after the Russia revolution in 1918. Leon Trotsky's Red Army defeated 14 Imperialist Armies during the civil war. Churchill rose in Parliament demanding Bolshevism be strangled in it cradle. Both Axis and Allied nations turned on the new Soviet Workers Republic which had called for peace without annexations. Wilson who promised not to enter WW1 did and had Eugene Debs thrown in Prison where he ran as the Socialist Party candidate and got 1 million votes. Shortly after the first Red Scare began. A round up of labor, socialist, anarchist, and the new communist movement activists began with deportation or jail the goal.
I think it would be cool if you did videos on how countries got nuclear weapons China, France, UK, etc. India and Pakistan would be fascinating to watch.
@@Sturminfantrist I recall that they only allegedly have a nuclear weapon. They've never let the UN or anyone else confirm that they have them. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@EthanReighley There was one individual who sold the technology to Pakistan, DPRK, LIBYA IRAQ AND IRAN that he stole from the company he worked for I believe in Amsterdam.. URENCO ..that guy was Abdul Qadeer Khan aka A.Q. Khan he is currently and for the rest of his life confined to his home in Pakistan and is not allowed to be interviewed by the Media
You forgot to mention that Ethel Rosenberg was offered a chance to admit she was a communist days before she was about to be executed and she refused she was a dedicated communist and deserve to be executed or worse the campaign to freedom was orchestrated by a very entrenched leftist communist organization throughout the United States using typical propaganda of accusing antisemitism as the reason they were as guilty as hell worse they betrayed our country for communism and they should’ve grabbed Fuchs in Britain because he lived a long happy life in Great Britain and one other problem many of the spies were homosexual’s part of the Harvard homosexual community beware what’s going on to our country now
I forgot to include that if she admitted her guilt she would not have been executed a sentence of life would’ve been granted but she loves communism so much and Stalin so much that she would’ve rather died for communism and evil
@@victorsamuelson3589excuse me... Every nation on this earth has.. and actively is using spies.. Including the United States of America. Espionage is a well known craft of nation states. What on earth does that have to do with the kids or children 😂.
Defends the Rosenbergs and quotes Sartre in the same sentence... quite an interesting retelling, as I'm sure "many" more felt they deserved the death penalty.
grafvonstauffenburg I agree that OP should have clarified Sartre’s political inclinations, though Sartre’s importance in the time-political affiliation be damned-is not something to be passed lightly, especially when partaking in a criticism of policy for one of the most influential forces in the world. It would be like a person using Orwell without mention of his own ideological tendencies to justify the actions of the Soviet Union when he himself served in the anti-Stalinist communist volunteer army (POUM) in the Spanish Civil War, as mentioned in first-hand information from the conflict and “An Homage to Catalonia”
Whether it were the Rosenbergs or not, someone did pass the info to the Soviets. Just recently I read a great article how the USSR reverse engineered the B-29 bomber cause they couldn't build their own (although I must respect the Soviet engineers for taking the plane apart down to single rivets and then building the Tu-4 out of that). The same was with jet engines - the Soviets only had them available so early cause they got blueprints from their British sympathizers. Given the level of Sovet tech in the lat 1940s, they must have got the info on a-bombs from the west. There were plenty of "useful idiots" in the west making Stalin and other commies happy for decades. Anyway, the vid is very interesting as most information presented on tCW - a great way to teach history.
Many of the Tu-4's built even had holes in their frames based on bullet holes found on downed B=29's that sustained damage from Japanese fighters, this was due to Stalin wanting an exact copy produced and the engineers took that literally.
Everything is possible with enough resources and time. It's just much cheaper and faster to pay few million dollars and let intelligence (a.k.a. spying) produce the needed information.
The day you guys make a video on McCarthy is the day this channel is gonna have half of youtube screaming at eachother on these comments, probably even Razorfist himself. I look forward to it.
Before they do that they might want to do a video on who actually was the first one to serve on the house unamerican activities committee.. that would be a Democrat congressman by the name of Samuel Dickstien.. I find it ironic that during the FDR administration the chairman of that committee was a PAID agent for the Soviet Union who was found out in the Venona papers .. even the soviet's hated this clown because Dickstien did it NOT for ideology he did it for money .. his code name in venona was " CROOK"
@@davidweikle9921 he was a Communist who spied for the very country he came from against the very country that was stupid enough to take him in.. end of story
Based on the Venona documents released in 1995, could it be said that Soviet agents inside the government and the paranoia of the McCarthy era were somewhat reasonable responses? It seems that the modern narrative of that era uses hindsight as a crutch sometimes.
I think people misunderstand the extent to which McCarthy was making accusations. He was the most extreme voice in a paranoid atmosphere. He basically was going after anyone and everyone he could to further his career often on no factual basis. He ruined the career of many people for no other reason. He even waved around a laundry receipt claiming it had the list of a bunch of Communists within the government. It's unlikely he himself found any. What brought him down was when he began to accuse the Army of being infiltrated by Communist agents, based off of no evidence. The reason was that his associate, Roy Cohn, had a homosexual relationship with another McCarthy staffer who was drafted into the Korean War and he had unsuccessfully tried to get him out of the draft. Cohn was angry and retaliated with this accusation, creating the Army - McCarthy hearings which ended his career. So no, it really wasn't reasonable, even people who did try to go after Communist double agents in the government didn't take him seriously because he was a fraud.
@@reshpeck the facts make the left look bad lmfao XD you mean the facts that McCarthy completely missed soviet agents while frantically ruining people's lives in his idiotic anti communism? yeah, guess who looks bad honey
What was she suppose to do? Become government evidence and point a finger at whom ever she was told to? Her Children grew up in Springfield, MA and both became college professors.
The rosenbergs died because they did not want to cause any harm to the Communists. Because they were a couple of filthy Communists who got what they deserved.
Do Nords servers generate certificates differently than other VPNs servers? If they're randomly generated for each and every connection made then it would be pretty difficult, you'd think. I believe most VPNs use randomly generated certificates though, right?
Soviet engineer Brokhovich is probably correct the Rosenbergs didn’t give anything important on the bomb - but somebody did. As Richard Rhodes tells it the Soviet bomb was an exact copy of the US one.
@@mikehimes7944 Klaus Fuchs did, he was passing tech info even when we was still in the UK before the Manhattan Project even existed. Later he was passing info right out of Los Alamos. This is all well known, there are books written about it. Throwing dirt onto Fermi and Szilard is utterly insane...
Yeah, so right in fact that the united states is falling apart due to failing wars and economic disasters on a scales second only to the great depression, which was also caused by -surprise- capitalism. But keep spamming "communism no breed" memes boomer.
Boy, that’s a toughie. Putting stalwart patriotism aside, it’s a couple who maintained their innocence but wouldn’t speak up to clear their names. Left behind two young boys who were orphaned. It’s a sad tale and easy to empathize with. However, consider if the help they were providing would’ve been instrumental in helping a more volatile nation develop weaponry that destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Makes their story significantly less tragic. It’s easy to convict institutions in the court of revisionist history. Did the Rosenburg’s truly deserve the death penalty? Who knows. Was what they were doing dangerous for national security? That question may never be answered but the possibility deserves the utmost reverence. It’s easy, kids. Don’t give military secrets to opposing nations… it’ll increase your chances of living a full and rewarding life.
Quite frankly, I get annoyed every time I see an article trying to get me to overly sympathize wirh them. They were traitors who didn't even try to give any sort of story to defend themselves.
I do believe that whoever smuggled the information for the soviets actually saved lives. Who knows how aggressive could the americans become in a world without any sort of power balance?
@@bushit123456 The United States dropped the first atomic bomb in August of 1945. The Soviet Union tested their first in 1949. That is 4 years for the US to hold complete atomic supremacy yet they did nothing with it apart from dropping them on Japan
@@kamilpotato3764 im no usa fanboi but even ik usa already have large no. of woke people who will destroy their own nation if us govt tries to be dictator
My immediate educated assumption as a novitiate lawyer would be that espionage is not a crime decided based on the value of information passed along but the deed itself. It’s likely not like larceny, but rather like battery. In that case the husband is guilty and Ethel may have done enough to be an accomplice. Still, it seems extremely harsh sentencing to give her the death penalty as well.
From many Memoirs Written sense, They never actually thought they would die until they did, they wanted the husband to talk and used his wife as leverage, it didn't work out that way, not to mention the testimony used to get her in the chair was falsified...
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 well this is old Yes they did illegal things, that's why the movement to have there crimes Revoked was denied, yes the husband was a spy, but none of his crimes warranted the electorate chair, and his wife's crimes were inconsequential compared to his. And yes, they had nothing to do with the bomb, it's been looked into, forged testimony. Anyway this whole thing is super duper old
There was nothing antisemitic about their punishment, even saying as much makes me lose most of my sympathy for them. If you betray your country, how much you participated doesn’t really make a difference. You still did it, even playing a “comparatively small” role is still treasonous at its core. It’s insane and quite deplorable to blame the consequences of your actions on supposed antisemitism in a cheap attempt to avoid your punishment.
@@Sniperboy5551 The word treason applies to passing information to the enemy in wartime and the Rosenbergs did not do that. Russia / SU was an ally. It is very clear that Ethel did not type up the notes from David Greenglass. David Greenglass changed his testimony from the Grand jury hearing to the time of trial to implicate Ethel. Other irregularities include I. Saypol discussing the penalty with judge Kaufmann before the Rosenbergs were convicted and a deal done with Greenglass that if he testified then his wife would not be charged with conspiracy to commit espionage. Both Ethel and Ruth were typists so they could equally have done the typing. There is a book available on Ethel and the trial by Anne Sebba (look it up on Ytube using both names - it clarifies just how badly Ethel was treated. Prosecutors though that the threat of execution of Ethel would help make Julius talk and name names (Barr and Sarrant for example). Barr had already escaped. Alfred Sarrant escaped to Mexico after he was interviewed by the FBI (wikipedia article exists). Essentially, trying to get Rosenberg J to name names was useless as the main names had already fled. Clearly the FBI knew that, but they did not know if there were others who they had missed. It seems that other spies at the time did not operate through Julius Rosenberg.
doesnt this story have anything to do with the english scientists who gave nuclear secrets because they believed that america alone with nuclear weapons was too much power for one country to have, im kinda with them on this one, the us govt is a big enough bully so can you imagine what it would be like if they were the only country to have such power
I'm not entirely sure how not giving classified information about WMDs to an enemy state is superstitious hindrance of science, but then again, I'm not an acclaimed philosopher.
Oh trust me they've been persecuted. Prosecuted is, I think, the word you meant Judging by how few times the prosecuting parties have been right to do so, I cordially invite you to STFU.
I’m surprised that FDR didn’t invite the Soviets to participate in the Manhattan Project. He bent over backwards for them in everything else. Though there is no evidence FDR was a Soviet agent, I would have more respect for him if he was for a job well done.
Gringo Bombero right? Lol I keep scrolling thru the comments here seeing requests and thinking “oh yeah, that was a fascinating part that factored into the bigger picture too”. The Cold War is a broad subject indeed, and being familiar with it is still crucial to understanding the world today.
fyi the subtitles are messed up between about 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Mostly during the ad, but it had the subtitles from further into the intro and then from the end of the episode. Not a major problem, just confusing for those of us who rely on captioning to fill in what we can't get from the audio. After the title card, it appears that everything is fine, though
That’s not how it works. You can plead the 5th if you are innocent if you are worried that you could accidentally self incriminate even if you didn’t actually do it. It is very easy to slip up and say something that seems self incriminating even if you didn’t actually do the crime you are accused of.
All Europeans are brothers, as Americans like to say when they leave the western hemisphere. The Soviet nuclear weapons program started in 1936 and lasted till 1945, and building of the atom bomb were delayed by a few dissident scientist there. The drawings of the Soviet atom bomb were smuggled to the White House itself by 1941 or 1942. The drawings of the atom bomb, along with air blast calculations and materials lists were ready by 1941 at the Soviet nuclear weapons research center. Soviet Union had the best nuclear scientists, with a human tough and humane mentality. At the time the focus of the United States was in radio waves. So, right after the Soviet drawings of the atom bomb and air blast calculations were smuggled to the office of President Roosevelt, President Roosevelt initially put together a rag tag team with G. Marconi, the inventor of the radio, in charge of the American nuclear program in 1942 - 1943. Soon someone mentioned to him that the United States too had a bright scientist trained in nuclear physics who was in a scientific company somewhere else in the USA. In 1942 or so, Oppenheimer called back the White House: he needed two months notice, at the very least. He told officials in 1942 to let Marconi continue, and that he had to give two months notice to his current employers in 1941 or 1942. Robert Oppenheimer and President Roosevelt were both very impressed with the Soviet papers of the Soviet atom bomb, as these were accompanied by extensive airblast calculations . president Roosevelt commented that even he could understand the air blast calculations ND the Soviet design papers, despite being a history major. Their brilliant nuclear scientists decided to have a go slow approach till a Slav (East European) is selected as the Secretary general of the Soviet Union in place of Joseph Stalin. These were smuggled out of the Soviet Union by a few dissident nuclear scientists of the Soviet Union on to the White House in 1941 or 1942. the dissident nuclear scientists of the Soviet Union didn't like the idea of a communist country like their county building the first atom bomb. original atom bomb drawings and materials lists and air blast calculations were prepared in a nuclear bomb research center in the Soviet Union by a team of nuclear physicists, led by Egor Kurchatov. In his younger days, Mr. Kurchatov looked like a handsome man. Soviet chief scientist and project manager of the Soviet atom bomb program looked more like a white beach boy on a surfboard and more like a slim fraternity member an any college in the USA. Later, he started looking more like a mad scientist with age. During the initial successes of the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, Kurchatov and his team of dissident nuclear scientists decided to smuggle out the papers of the Soviet nuclear weapon to the United States. and atom bomb including the original drawings and materials lists and formulas and air blast calculations. These were were smuggled out of the Soviet nuclear weapons research center by two real Europeans:: The two smugglers were two academic scientists from central Europe, actually western Europe. The duo who reached the United States also reached the White House in 1942, give or take 6 month, along with the Soviet designs of the atom bomb were from one or two central / west European countries, either Holland or Denmark or a similar country. came from Igor Kurchatov lead scientist of the atom bomb research center. The rest is history. He almost didn't respond to the President's invitation. He was working in a company working or wired signals and other radio signals. Oppenheimer was the only knowledgeable authority in nuclear scientist in the western hemisphere, unlike the Soviet Union and Germany. Initially he told the White Science he had forgotten nucear science even he had studied nuclear science.
On a totally unrelated note, when the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939, members of the Jewish community would hand over lists of the names of polish high-ranking officials to commissars.
The soviets already knew who the high ranking officials were. they did not need a list from the poles. of course many non jewish poles sent their Jewish neighbors to the nazi death camps.
Very articulate and well researched. Good point about Ethel have little to zero involvement. But her husband, regardless of his "good intentions", was guilty as charged.
That radically mis-charcterizes what the kids tried to do. Every step along the way they argued that they were both innocent. Even after VENONA was declassified, they argued this. ... then the Soviets opened the KGB archives, totally guilty. Crestfallen, saddened that their life's crusade was for naught, they, like little whipped puppies opted for plan B. "Well, okay, daddy was a guilty traitorous scumbag, but not mommy!" Their sole piece of evidence seems to be "mommy didn't have a code name. " ... tens of thousand of people died because of their traitorous acts. They deserved to be fried.
I can't say I have much sympathy for the Rosenbergs. They were both true believing fanatics, abject worshippers of the most holy and divine Stalin. Instead of telling the truth they lied right to the end and, even worst in my opinion, foisted on their two sons the lie that they were innocent. As for Ethel's "innocence", she was at least an accessory and certainly knew of her husbands activities. Remember they were both fanatical Stalinists. The result was that they both were executed. That said aspects of the trial were dubious. David Greenglasses change of testimony, (i.e., perjury), is repellant. Although again it appears he was pressured to change his testimony, which is even more repellant. As for all those people who complain about him testifying against his sister. Just remember he was trying to save his wife from being charged and jailed. The bottom line was that the Rosenbergs did not tell the truth but coolly lied in the service of their fanatically held ideology. If they had told the truth they very likely, and Ethel certainly, would have lived. Instead they chose to lie to serve the cause. None of this justifies in the slightest Greenglasses perjury or trying to pressure Julius by charging Ethel and given that Ethel's involvement in the spying appears to have been tangential, (i.e., she simply knew about it.), her execution cannot be excused in the slightest. And I have my doubts about Julius' execution. That being said still in many respects they were willing martyrs to the cause. As for the importance of the Rosenbergs' atomic spying for the Soviets getting the bomb; the evidence or should I say conclusions about it are all over the map. I cannot come to a conclusion. Although I would rate that if Soviet spying helped with them getting the bomb, probably the stuff from Fuch and Hall was more important.
@Steveyboii I suppose you could argue that. But again I am not convinced that the Atomic information provided by the Rosenberg Spy Ring was all that important in the Soviets building a bomb. I think it is more likely that the information provided by Fuch and Hall was much more important. As for the charges being true. Well they were. The Venona decripts and Sobel's admission 10 years before his death that he and Julius were spies in the Spy Ring is enough for me. As for the idea that peace was served by the Soviet's having the bomb also? Well Britain did too by this time. The bottom line is that at best the Rosenberg Spy Ring may have advanced the Soviet's having the bomb by a few years at most. And since we now know that various Soviet officials thought the information provided by their spies was crap designed to deceive them perhaps it had little effect. Your notion that the US was a danger to peace if it had the bomb without a hostile power to it having the bomb to counter US power sort of misses the point that two powers having the bomb who hate each other greatly increases the chances that any war could get out of control. Further it appears to be the case that the Soviet Union getting the bomb encouraged Stalin to let North Korea attack South Korea in 1950 starting the Korean war that killed at least 2 million people. Finally none of this in the slightest changes the fact that both Julius and Ethel Rosenberg worshipped at the altar of the most holy and divine Stalin. They were fanatical Stalinists who weren't just doing it for "peace" but to serve the goal of establishing Stalinism in the USA. For in their warped minds Stalinism equaled "Freedom" and "Democracy" and their spying was to advance the "happy day" in which the glorious Stalinist system would rule the USA, with terror and mass murder. None of this changes the fact that however outrageous the lies told by the Greenglasses that both of the Rosenberg's lied and lied far more outrageously in their own testimony. Further they lied to their two sons right to the point of their own deaths about their "innocence". I have no sympathy for two political fanatics enmeshed in the cult worship of one of the most evil men who has ever lived, Stalin, and who wished with blind fanaticism to impose a similar regime on their own country. Their executions were unjustified, in my opinion, but I weep no tears for them.
It's hard to follow your comments under the lens of american law. Being a stalinist or any other fanatic is not a crime. Neither it is a crime to hold information that could be used against your husband in trial. Not confessing is not a crime, there's a whole constitutional amendment saying so. And what could they even explain? Even an admission that they were communists would seal their fates, even though it is perfectly legal. The aspects of the trial are in fact dubious because we know the strategy of the prosecution; we know Ethel was only accused as a form of war of nerves against Julius, in hopes he or her would confess out of fear - the deputy attorney general (William Rogers) even reacted saying "she called our bluffs". It is ridiculous to say the right thing for her to do was to sign her husband death penalty and go home to her kids.
@@bushit123456 Whatever. I actually agree that being Stalinist fanatics was not illegal or any sort of crime. What was illegal was spying. I was replying to Steveyboii's comments regarding the motives of the Rosenberg's. In my opinion they were Stalinist fanatics worshiping at the altar of the most holy and divine Stalin. We now know that Ethel's involvement in the spy ring was peripheral, although according to the Venona documents she did take part in recruiting Ruth, (David's wife.). And yes she was charged to pressure Julius. And yes it is was not illegal for Ethel to hold back testimony about her husband. However what was illegal was false testimony. Both Julius and Ethel repeatedly perjured themselves when they testified. They lied and lied in their testimony. Then before their deaths they lied to their own children about their innocence. (Not legal perjury but not good.) As for David he was under pressure also. His wife Ruth was far move involved in the spy ring than Ethel and hanging over his head, (And Ruth's head.),was the threat of charges against Ruth if he didn't cooperate. As for what was the right thing to do for Ethel? Well the right thing was certainly not to lie on the witness stand, or lie to her children about being innocent. And of course Ethel and Julius could have negotiated a way out of the death penalty for Julius in exchange for cooperation. The right thing to do was not to sacrifice themselves for the most holy and divine Stalin, or lie to further the holy cause. Part of furthering the holy cause was lying to their children. But being absolute fanatics they did in fact sacrifice themselves. Assuming that Ethel's cooperation would in fact have not saved Julius the right thing for Ethel to have done would have been in fact to tell the truth and go home to raise her kids. It is hard to have much sympathy for two cultish political fanatics who adored one of the great monsters of human history along with a disgusting political ideology and who oh so willingly threw themselves under the bus. And their worship of this monster lead them to spying for him and then in service of the cause to lie and lie. Their destruction had a large element of suicide in it.
@@makinapacal Stalin and Marxism-Leninism, as that's the specific form of communism the USSR practiced, did more good for the world than most ever do. Sincerely, a Marxist-Leninist.
I was born on JULY 16, 1945~~~ the day & year~~the “”FIRST ATOMIC BOMB was TESTED in NEW MEXICO”” I always got this question 🙋🏻♀️ answered in History Class/Civics 😊
It's funny. Because looking back at it they were inadvertently ensuring that both sides had the same bomb tech, ontributing to a detente that's lasted to this day.
They were scapegoats. They knew were the Russians got the information to fill the gaps in there project. I think it was a whole range of different people who worked on the Manhattan project. Scientists with morals
*Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.* Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954) is a former intelligence analyst for the United States government. In 1987 Pollard pleaded guilty to spying for and providing top-secret classified information to Israel. He was sentenced to life in prison for violations of the Espionage Act. Pollard is the only American who has received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally of the U.S. In defense of his actions, Pollard declared that he committed espionage only because "the American intelligence establishment collectively endangered Israel's security by withholding crucial information". Israeli officials, U.S.-Israeli activist groups, and some U.S. politicians who saw his punishment as unfair lobbied continually for reduction or commutation of his sentence. The Israeli government acknowledged a portion of its role in Pollard's espionage in 1987, and issued a formal apology to the U.S., but did not admit to paying him until 1998. Over the course of his imprisonment, Israel made repeated unsuccessful attempts through both official and unofficial channels to secure his release. He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1995. Opposing any form of clemency were many active and retired U.S. officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, former CIA director George Tenet; several former U.S. Secretaries of Defense; a bi-partisan group of U.S. congressional leaders; and members of the U.S. intelligence community. They maintained that the damage to U.S. national security due to Pollard's espionage was far more severe, wide-ranging, and enduring than publicly acknowledged. Though Pollard argued that he only supplied Israel with information critical to its security, opponents pointed out that he had no way of knowing what the Israelis had received through legitimate exchanges, and that much of the data he compromised had nothing to do with Israeli security. Pollard revealed aspects of the U.S. intelligence gathering process, its "sources and methods". He sold numerous closely guarded state secrets, including the National Security Agency's ten-volume manual on how the U.S. gathers its signal intelligence, and disclosed the names of thousands of people who had cooperated with U.S. intelligence agencies. While Benjamin Netanyahu (current Prime Minister of Israel) argued that Pollard worked exclusively for Israel, Pollard admitted shopping his services-successfully, in some cases-to other countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
I heard that more evidence incriminating the Rosenbergs came to light after the USSR fell, and the country's files on the matter were opened to the public. But how much they incriminated Ethel is something I don't know .
@@ttun100 if you look her up in the venona files you will see that Julius had 2 code names LIBERAL and ANTENNA Ethel name was actually listed as Ethel no code name BUT she was complisit and an accessory ...along with her brother and her sister in law who by the way sold out his sister in a deal that she would serve no time ... that piece of shit was David Greenglass
It's a tragedy that these two adults made the decision to leave their children without parents but they didn't what they did knowing the risks. In my opinion there is no punishment too great for what they did
@@stink1343 It was proven that Julius was guilty, he was a spy, recruiting, passing documents, it's not 1st amendment. Your mainstream hate for america's history is obscuring your judgment.
What they did is saving countless lives from nuclear bombs being dropped elsewhere in the World by United states. In the end it was for better that Soviets quickly developed nuclear arms because it upheld equilibrium.
@@totalwartimelapses6359 That is leftist brainwashing or just plain ignorance of historical context. America has ALWAYS been a beacon of advanced society in the world. When it was founded, the rest of the world was still ruled by monarchies and the idea of average people electing their government was unthinkable. When America abolished slavery after the civil war it was one of the first countries in the world to do so. When America conquered and resettled native American tribes they gave them far more rights and reparations than other colonizers gave to natives. When the countries of Europe started world wars and destroyed themselves, America stepped forward at great sacrifice to save them and preserve freedom. America's past is not perfect, but it is consistently better than the alternatives of its time. To say otherwise is to apply your biased modern perspective on things to completely different times, peoples and cultures.
I'll have to share this one on social media. Very timely. I guess it always has been.🤔 Anyway, I'm learning a lot about things that happened in or just before my lifetime. So very interesting.👍 Thanks CWC 👍
♔Support our channel and get 70% off a 3-year plan plus one additional month for free by signing up here: nordvpn.com/thecoldwar
The Cold War , please make a video on the Naxalbari Movement a Maoist Movement in India which shook the government.
Do indonesia malaysia konfrontasi 1963-1966
A chapter on John Birch please.
The claims of anti-Semitism are false do to the fact lawyer Roy is Jewish himself and Donald Trumps mentor. This is a interesting side note and fact.
11:08 and Boris' statement that "we got nothing from the Rosenbergs". This is definitely not true. But what they got in terms of nuclear bomb plans was some juvenile sketches from David Greenglass and some typing by Ruth Prinz Greenglass. The information helped validate much more complex manuscripts coming from K. Fuchs. J Rosenberg allegedly handed over a working proximity fuse from the plant he was working at in the NY area. This was a state secret at the time for fear that the Germans would get details of the design. Eventually the soviets reverse engineered it. This video omits the important fact that the Rosenbergs were prosecuted under the 1917 WWI espionage act which made it easier to execute than under the Atomic control act which was more applicable.
David Greenglass undoubtedly handed over his own Sister, Ethel, in place of his implicated wife and the US government knew about it. Ruth Greenglass had a soviet pseudonym in the Venona transcripts but Ethel does not . She is described by her age and as the wife of Julius, but has no codename. That would suggest that Ethel provided minimal information or activity in her own right. Tim F
RIP Mad Magazine. The true builder of my character.
Lol
Well said.
@@theccpisaparasite8813 love your name
Maybe he should have worried
Yeah i also love glorified tabloids
US: *Executes 2 spies*
USSR: "Hold my beer."
Hold my giant bottle of vodka*
OUR*
"Rookie shit, get those numbers up!"
USSR: Only 2? Pathetic!
America is very wimp
The judge who sentenced the Rosenbergs to death was also Jewish. If there was any antisemitism involved, maybe that judge thought that the two Communist spies and all their other Jewish fellow travellers were bringing the whole religion/community, including non-communist Jews like him, into disrepute. I think he also took into consideration that their espionage leading to the Soviet's acquisition of the atom bomb had emboldened Stalin to allow the Korean War to be started, costing American lives.
Last time I checked, Korea was not located in the US.
So you're saying that instead of the Korean War, the crazy Douglas McArthur should have been allowed to nuke China? Which would then have caused millions of deaths from the USSR striking back justifiably?
Last time I checked south korea was an ally, and Americans were murdered by the North, with help from the russians and red chinese.
The lead prosecutor was also Jewish. Those damn antisemites! (sarcasm, obviously…)
@Malleus Imperiorum Did you even read what he wrote, or do you just have poor reading comprehension skills?
can you cover the Chinese civil war, between 1945-1949. I know the communist won but have no idea how the events unfolded for that to take place. Would definitely be an interesting topic, to me at least.
He already has.
Adam Iaccheo It’s probably one of the most impressive tactical feats in history. CGTN has a long documentary on it.
The consume wun
Adam Iaccheo yes
easy, they waited until the kmt was weakened by Japanese and then attacked
Please make a video on the sino-soviet split. It's was a huge geopolitical event because it spilt up the communist block in two and paved the way to the modern PRC. Great video thanks again.
LOL, do you know what the Shanghai Corp is? There is a Russia-Shanghai Corp. Because the USA will not fix what they break, and politicians continue to get away with their crimes, and CIA is nothing but a terrorist organization - no doubt the Shanghai Corp will soon Tower over USA, which is imploding on itself. The dirtbag politicians are inciting war just to pay for their damn crimes! They are NAZIS, real traitors - unlike the Rosenbergs, who most likely sought to support their Jewish Nation. Who can blame them?
All that whining about the dude being innocent then he turned out to be a spy anyway LMAO
Yeah ethel was a spy too so what if she had a smaller role. If He gave up their sources he could have saved them both. Executing them and orphaning there kids sent a message to anybody considering spying. It makes more sense to give the death penalty there than even too murderers in which the death penalty does less to actually deter.
Married to a spy = she almost certainly knew. They both denied til the end. If she was innocent he should have taken responsibility and admitted it was all him.
@@xiaoka Agreed.
Commies gonna commie
fiery but peaceful
Quite frankly, I get annoyed every time I see an article trying to get me to overly sympathize with the likes of them. They were traitors who didn't even try to give any sort of story to defend themselves. They're traitors and the reasons their children were orphaned.
They don't need to give a story because the fifth amendment protects one against self incrimination. Julus could have made an affirmative defense that he was indeed a Soviet Spy and while he did not give away the secret to the bomb he would done so to prevent mad men like General MacArthur getting an easy go ahead by President Truman for dropping the bomb on Chinese and Soviet Cities needlessly killing million of human beings in a third world war. The fact that Stalin got the bomb when he did made Mutual assured destruction possible. It prevented a third world war for the time being.
Exactly, and even if Ethel played a small role she and her husband were uncooperative with authorities. They traded intel on weapons of mass destruction with a foreign adversary. Which is treason with penalty of death. I see no reason to sympathize with traders, who put the safety of their country at risk.
@@ameerelayyan Sorry the treason Charge is well defined in the US Constitution. Two witness to an overt act of giving aid and comfort to the Enemies of the United States. The only treason convictions the government has ever obtained are for US citizens engaging in activity on behave of a Country that Congress has declared war on Not even General Lee was so charged. At no time during the "cold war" were we ever officially at war with Korea, China, Cuba, Vietnam or the Soviet Union.
The law involved is the same one Donald Trump is accused of violating the Espionage Act of 1917. Do you want Trump sent away based upon evidence you can't see? Maybe Trump should just throw himself on the mercy of a court and a Democratic Party engineered frame job? Also they traded nothing the government never alleged they received a red cent. They just as much evidence that Bush did of Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destrution and being the "Next Hitler". People such as yourself will march off a cliff before waking up.
@@ameerelayyanyeah dude, we Americans are gonna fascist. It's in our nature to bully and suppress true democracy for the working class. Corporations' profits and the military industrial complex are what matter in the good old US of A. How dare people want to support a system that prioritizes human needs of the laboring majority over the wealth of a ruling economically-undemocratic minority. Glad our education and media produces ignorance like yours or else our capitalist Oligarchy might be in jeopardy.
Everybody is innocent until proven otherwise. If there is no credible evidence or the due process is not followed any decision the judge makes is illegal, null and void. Very simple law 101. It does not matter if they are spies or not. Your emotions and conviction is irrelevant. Your patriotism is denied. Period.
I miss the times when youtube was a real free space for people to inform people
Whatya mean
@@forgotten1s in 2014 freedom of expression existed on TH-cam. Now people who made informative truthful content have emigrated to other platforms.
It still is
@@samsmet3121 ; not it is not
Correct, it's become an intellectual Gulag!
I really enjoy this channel. I did my military service just after the Cold War ended, but the "Soviet Threat," was still very real. I like learning about this era because it was, very much, dominated by spy games...and, I'm woefully ignorant of COLD War history. This channel is awesome!
Thank you.
@david gallagher US/UK invaded the Soviet Union not the other way around.
@davebrayfb if you went to elementary school, you'd know when you had drills to hide under your desk. If you paid attention to any newspaper back then, the red threat was real. You didn't need to be well versed. You just had to pay attention
China and Russia are still a threat.
@@kimobrien. when did that happen?
@@DonRamiro1 Shortly after the Russia revolution in 1918. Leon Trotsky's Red Army defeated 14 Imperialist Armies during the civil war. Churchill rose in Parliament demanding Bolshevism be strangled in it cradle. Both Axis and Allied nations turned on the new Soviet Workers Republic which had called for peace without annexations. Wilson who promised not to enter WW1 did and had Eugene Debs thrown in Prison where he ran as the Socialist Party candidate and got 1 million votes. Shortly after the first Red Scare began. A round up of labor, socialist, anarchist, and the new communist movement activists began with deportation or jail the goal.
I think it would be cool if you did videos on how countries got nuclear weapons China, France, UK, etc. India and Pakistan would be fascinating to watch.
you forgot Israel
@@Sturminfantrist I recall that they only allegedly have a nuclear weapon. They've never let the UN or anyone else confirm that they have them. Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@ethanreighley1336 true!
@EthanReighley
There was one individual who sold the technology to Pakistan, DPRK, LIBYA IRAQ AND IRAN that he stole from the company he worked for I believe in Amsterdam.. URENCO ..that guy was Abdul Qadeer Khan aka A.Q. Khan he is currently and for the rest of his life confined to his home in Pakistan and is not allowed to be interviewed by the Media
@@ethanreighley1336 North Korea tested theirs.
This couple changed the world forever.
You forgot to mention that Ethel Rosenberg was offered a chance to admit she was a communist days before she was about to be executed and she refused she was a dedicated communist and deserve to be executed or worse the campaign to freedom was orchestrated by a very entrenched leftist communist organization throughout the United States using typical propaganda of accusing antisemitism as the reason they were as guilty as hell worse they betrayed our country for communism and they should’ve grabbed Fuchs in Britain because he lived a long happy life in Great Britain and one other problem many of the spies were homosexual’s part of the Harvard homosexual community beware what’s going on to our country now
I forgot to include that if she admitted her guilt she would not have been executed a sentence of life would’ve been granted but she loves communism so much and Stalin so much that she would’ve rather died for communism and evil
Oh what do you expect the kids to do to say oh my parents were spies
@@victorsamuelson3589 THey are Jews saying they are spies is a oxymoron
@@victorsamuelson3589excuse me... Every nation on this earth has.. and actively is using spies.. Including the United States of America.
Espionage is a well known craft of nation states.
What on earth does that have to do with the kids or children 😂.
Defends the Rosenbergs and quotes Sartre in the same sentence... quite an interesting retelling, as I'm sure "many" more felt they deserved the death penalty.
Sartre was a socialist. It’s not right to quote him without spelling out his inclinations.
Echo Drive “any criticism of the United States is communism!!”
grafvonstauffenburg I agree that OP should have clarified Sartre’s political inclinations, though Sartre’s importance in the time-political affiliation be damned-is not something to be passed lightly, especially when partaking in a criticism of policy for one of the most influential forces in the world.
It would be like a person using Orwell without mention of his own ideological tendencies to justify the actions of the Soviet Union when he himself served in the anti-Stalinist communist volunteer army (POUM) in the Spanish Civil War, as mentioned in first-hand information from the conflict and “An Homage to Catalonia”
@@JohnSmith-ts3dt Marxist
@@tonyv6351 what’s wrong with that?
Whether it were the Rosenbergs or not, someone did pass the info to the Soviets. Just recently I read a great article how the USSR reverse engineered the B-29 bomber cause they couldn't build their own (although I must respect the Soviet engineers for taking the plane apart down to single rivets and then building the Tu-4 out of that). The same was with jet engines - the Soviets only had them available so early cause they got blueprints from their British sympathizers. Given the level of Sovet tech in the lat 1940s, they must have got the info on a-bombs from the west. There were plenty of "useful idiots" in the west making Stalin and other commies happy for decades.
Anyway, the vid is very interesting as most information presented on tCW - a great way to teach history.
The British also sold the Soviets jet engines (the yanks were probably not happy in Korea when they lost aircraft to the lightning)
@@redcoatgaming4141 nene engine, that was.
Many of the Tu-4's built even had holes in their frames based on bullet holes found on downed B=29's that sustained damage from Japanese fighters, this was due to Stalin wanting an exact copy produced and the engineers took that literally.
Everything is possible with enough resources and time. It's just much cheaper and faster to pay few million dollars and let intelligence (a.k.a. spying) produce the needed information.
@@todortodorov940 The Soviets having the bomb prevented the American Imperialists from using it in their quest for world domination.
The day you guys make a video on McCarthy is the day this channel is gonna have half of youtube screaming at eachother on these comments, probably even Razorfist himself. I look forward to it.
Before they do that they might want to do a video on who actually was the first one to serve on the house unamerican activities committee.. that would be a Democrat congressman by the name of Samuel Dickstien.. I find it ironic that during the FDR administration the chairman of that committee was a PAID agent for the Soviet Union who was found out in the Venona papers .. even the soviet's hated this clown because Dickstien did it NOT for ideology he did it for money .. his code name in venona was " CROOK"
@@victorseger6044 a politician who was motivated by money instead of ideology? In other news, water is wet.
@@davidweikle9921 he was a Communist who spied for the very country he came from against the very country that was stupid enough to take him in.. end of story
@@victorseger6044 good info.
@@davidweikle9921 LMAO.
Based on the Venona documents released in 1995, could it be said that Soviet agents inside the government and the paranoia of the McCarthy era were somewhat reasonable responses? It seems that the modern narrative of that era uses hindsight as a crutch sometimes.
Of course. But the truth makes the left look bad, always has.
Well McCarthy used the information for political gain, and there's no denying both sides used the "soft on communism" scare tactic.
I think people misunderstand the extent to which McCarthy was making accusations. He was the most extreme voice in a paranoid atmosphere. He basically was going after anyone and everyone he could to further his career often on no factual basis. He ruined the career of many people for no other reason. He even waved around a laundry receipt claiming it had the list of a bunch of Communists within the government. It's unlikely he himself found any. What brought him down was when he began to accuse the Army of being infiltrated by Communist agents, based off of no evidence. The reason was that his associate, Roy Cohn, had a homosexual relationship with another McCarthy staffer who was drafted into the Korean War and he had unsuccessfully tried to get him out of the draft. Cohn was angry and retaliated with this accusation, creating the Army - McCarthy hearings which ended his career. So no, it really wasn't reasonable, even people who did try to go after Communist double agents in the government didn't take him seriously because he was a fraud.
McCarthy ruined so many innocent people's lives while missing all the real culprits. That is incredibly bad counterintelligence. Shameful, really.
@@reshpeck the facts make the left look bad lmfao XD
you mean the facts that McCarthy completely missed soviet agents while frantically ruining people's lives in his idiotic anti communism?
yeah, guess who looks bad honey
I absolutely love this channel. I watch it every morning when I get ready for work.
"Julius Rosenberg was born on May 12, 1918, in New York City to a family of Jewish immigrants from the Russian Empire."
I have occasionally thought that exile to Soviet Russia would have been appropriate for the Rosenbergs.
Dark Comedy: Mad Magazine lost some of their building materials in Australia
Could I humbly request the Narrator turn down the "Smug" setting a couple notches?
Also ☆ Bring the Chin Down.
Down Farther. That's it! Thanks!
At the very minimum, Ethel provided aide and comfort to the enemy
Amen.
And that qualify you to receive the death penalty. What kind of Banana Republic do you live in?
@@larslundandersen7722 aiding in treason = treason.
@@larslundandersen7722 chill dude, it's just a sex joke
@Steveyboii literally just a bad sex joke, not something to clutch your pearls about
So he was a spy and his wife died because she wanted to die on her sword. Clearly good parents.
What was she suppose to do? Become government evidence and point a finger at whom ever she was told to? Her Children grew up in Springfield, MA and both became college professors.
The rosenbergs died because they did not want to cause any harm to the Communists. Because they were a couple of filthy Communists who got what they deserved.
Nord VPN makes hacking almost impossible, that's one outlandish claim you have there !!
Especially since they tmeselves got hacked not long ago.
Do Nords servers generate certificates differently than other VPNs servers? If they're randomly generated for each and every connection made then it would be pretty difficult, you'd think. I believe most VPNs use randomly generated certificates though, right?
@@joluoto No, they were not hacked. They were compromised by spies who stole their secrets.
Ah the McCarthy era, when there was only 57 communists in the government.
Soviet engineer Brokhovich is probably correct the Rosenbergs didn’t give anything important on the bomb - but somebody did. As Richard Rhodes tells it the Soviet bomb was an exact copy of the US one.
Yes
Fuchs, szilard and Fermi come to mind.
@@mikehimes7944 Klaus Fuchs did, he was passing tech info even when we was still in the UK before the Manhattan Project even existed. Later he was passing info right out of Los Alamos. This is all well known, there are books written about it. Throwing dirt onto Fermi and Szilard is utterly insane...
You're Not maintaining innocence if you're pleading the fifth.
Never talk to cops. Plead the 5th
She could have been pleading the 5th cause she knew her husband did it but could be held to testify against him
@@dixiewhiskey3273 AFAIK spouses can't be made to testify against each other.
@@paulzapodeanu9407 you’re right but that just proves she wouldn’t have needed to plea the 5th....
Excellent upload Sir and thanks again 👍 ☘️
correction - MAD magazine has never ended & is still going
GRENADIER just online, right?
The paranoia was with good reason.
He was right
Just because you have paranoia it does not mean they are not after you.
Yeah, so right in fact that the united states is falling apart due to failing wars and economic disasters on a scales second only to the great depression, which was also caused by -surprise- capitalism.
But keep spamming "communism no breed" memes boomer.
@@KZ-xt4hl your so dump.. people don't work without intensive
@@chalsfo Also you still haven't addressed the fact that capitalism is falling apart for the second time.
@@KZ-xt4hl and the first time was in USSR?
The punishment was excessive. The Soviets were more than capable of building nuclear weapons on their own, and didn't really need the Rosenbergs.
Your sponsor segment is a big fat lie, false advertisement. A VPN does not make being hacked close to impossible.
Joe McCarthy had nothing to do with the Rosenberg case
Rosenberg deserved Peace Nobel Prize
@@ABCXYZ-tc5fc By being a a benefactor to the USSR and helping to catapult the world into the nuclear arms race?
@@EnigmaEnginseerTo prevent anyone from having a monopoly on power, as we all know absolute power corrupts totally those who wield it!
Spying was more important than their 2 sons
Boy, that’s a toughie. Putting stalwart patriotism aside, it’s a couple who maintained their innocence but wouldn’t speak up to clear their names. Left behind two young boys who were orphaned. It’s a sad tale and easy to empathize with.
However, consider if the help they were providing would’ve been instrumental in helping a more volatile nation develop weaponry that destroyed the lives of hundreds of thousands of people. Makes their story significantly less tragic.
It’s easy to convict institutions in the court of revisionist history. Did the Rosenburg’s truly deserve the death penalty? Who knows. Was what they were doing dangerous for national security? That question may never be answered but the possibility deserves the utmost reverence. It’s easy, kids. Don’t give military secrets to opposing nations… it’ll increase your chances of living a full and rewarding life.
Quite frankly, I get annoyed every time I see an article trying to get me to overly sympathize wirh them. They were traitors who didn't even try to give any sort of story to defend themselves.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 They were heroes is a sense. Glad the soviets got nukes so quickly because this prevent nuclear war in a way.
I do believe that whoever smuggled the information for the soviets actually saved lives. Who knows how aggressive could the americans become in a world without any sort of power balance?
@@bushit123456 The United States dropped the first atomic bomb in August of 1945. The Soviet Union tested their first in 1949. That is 4 years for the US to hold complete atomic supremacy yet they did nothing with it apart from dropping them on Japan
@@kamilpotato3764 im no usa fanboi but even ik usa already have large no. of woke people who will destroy their own nation if us govt tries to be dictator
Extraordinarily balanced review of these events. Not easy in these politically polarized times. Well done!
Love the little vault boy on the desk! :)
Had exactly the same thought - a vault boy keyring, awesome :)
My immediate educated assumption as a novitiate lawyer would be that espionage is not a crime decided based on the value of information passed along but the deed itself. It’s likely not like larceny, but rather like battery. In that case the husband is guilty and Ethel may have done enough to be an accomplice. Still, it seems extremely harsh sentencing to give her the death penalty as well.
From many Memoirs Written sense, They never actually thought they would die until they did, they wanted the husband to talk and used his wife as leverage, it didn't work out that way, not to mention the testimony used to get her in the chair was falsified...
@@connorschultz380 she knew what her husband was doing. She didn't try to speak up once. She couldn't defend him.
@@robertortiz-wilson1588 well this is old
Yes they did illegal things, that's why the movement to have there crimes
Revoked was denied, yes the husband was a spy, but none of his crimes warranted the electorate chair, and his wife's crimes were inconsequential compared to his.
And yes, they had nothing to do with the bomb, it's been looked into, forged testimony.
Anyway this whole thing is super duper old
There was nothing antisemitic about their punishment, even saying as much makes me lose most of my sympathy for them. If you betray your country, how much you participated doesn’t really make a difference. You still did it, even playing a “comparatively small” role is still treasonous at its core. It’s insane and quite deplorable to blame the consequences of your actions on supposed antisemitism in a cheap attempt to avoid your punishment.
@@Sniperboy5551 The word treason applies to passing information to the enemy in wartime and the Rosenbergs did not do that. Russia / SU was an ally.
It is very clear that Ethel did not type up the notes from David Greenglass. David Greenglass changed his testimony from the Grand jury hearing to the time of trial to implicate Ethel.
Other irregularities include I. Saypol discussing the penalty with judge Kaufmann before the Rosenbergs were convicted and a deal done with Greenglass that if he testified then his wife would not be charged with conspiracy to commit espionage. Both Ethel and Ruth were typists so they could equally have done the typing. There is a book available on Ethel and the trial by Anne Sebba (look it up on Ytube using both names - it clarifies just how badly Ethel was treated.
Prosecutors though that the threat of execution of Ethel would help make Julius talk and name names (Barr and Sarrant for example). Barr had already escaped. Alfred Sarrant escaped to Mexico after he was interviewed by the FBI (wikipedia article exists). Essentially, trying to get Rosenberg J to name names was useless as the main names had already fled. Clearly the FBI knew that, but they did not know if there were others who they had missed. It seems that other spies at the time did not operate through Julius Rosenberg.
doesnt this story have anything to do with the english scientists who gave nuclear secrets because they believed that america alone with nuclear weapons was too much power for one country to have, im kinda with them on this one, the us govt is a big enough bully so can you imagine what it would be like if they were the only country to have such power
Ted hall gave the secrets he then fled to the UK
@steveyboii6817 Exactly the Mad men at the pentagon and the US ruling class can never be trusted.
Thanks
Antisemitism? LOL is that a joke?
I'm not entirely sure how not giving classified information about WMDs to an enemy state is superstitious hindrance of science, but then again, I'm not an acclaimed philosopher.
“acclaimed philosopher = communist
Very glad you covered this topic and got it right as well!
8:24 "over 4 decades later in 1955"😮
The subtitle is more accurate than the narration sometimes😅
Bring back Old Sparky. There are many more such Rosenbergs in US and Canadian governments than ever before.Persecute traitors accordingly.
Oh trust me they've been persecuted. Prosecuted is, I think, the word you meant Judging by how few times the prosecuting parties have been right to do so, I cordially invite you to STFU.
Yep! They both got old sparky lol
They should've all gotten the chair not just the Rosenbergs
I fear the government about as much as I trust it
NordVPN doesn't work inside China. My personal experience.
Happy 100k Subscriber Cold War❤. Keep the quality video every week 🤩
Uh.......McCarthy wasn't paranoid. There were indeed socialists planted in the US government. Alger Hiss, David Greenglass.
NOOOOOOOOOO HE WAS HECKIN CRAZY SHUT UP SHUT UP
Harry Dexter White Victor Perlo Andrew Duggan the list is long there were more soviet spies in the FDR administration then American Patriots
Stalin knew about the Manhattan Project (the atomic bomb) when Truman briefed Stalin and Churchill.
Staling new about the Manhattan Project way before that, with Klaus Fuchs passing technical info even before being at Los Alamos.
I’m surprised that FDR didn’t invite the Soviets to participate in the Manhattan Project. He bent over backwards for them in everything else. Though there is no evidence FDR was a Soviet agent, I would have more respect for him if he was for a job well done.
The Cold War, can you please make a video on Argentina under Juan Peron. Thank you very much.
Ekmal Sukarno So many different stories of the Cold War!
Gringo Bombero right? Lol I keep scrolling thru the comments here seeing requests and thinking “oh yeah, that was a fascinating part that factored into the bigger picture too”. The Cold War is a broad subject indeed, and being familiar with it is still crucial to understanding the world today.
fyi the subtitles are messed up between about 30 seconds to 2 minutes. Mostly during the ad, but it had the subtitles from further into the intro and then from the end of the episode. Not a major problem, just confusing for those of us who rely on captioning to fill in what we can't get from the audio. After the title card, it appears that everything is fine, though
If they were innocent, why did they plead the 5th Amendment? What incriminating information were they trying to avoid?
Please tell me you are not an American citizen. If you are, God help us all.
That’s not how it works. You can plead the 5th if you are innocent if you are worried that you could accidentally self incriminate even if you didn’t actually do it. It is very easy to slip up and say something that seems self incriminating even if you didn’t actually do the crime you are accused of.
Excellent video on a very difficult topic.
This just made the weekend 10x better
A RED SPY IS IN THE BASE?
There is only one rule in the spy business......don't get caught.
Nice video, liked it
oh shit this was in We didn't start the fire by Billy Joel and I never knew what the heck he was talking aboot
All Europeans are brothers, as Americans like to say when they leave the western hemisphere. The Soviet nuclear weapons program started in 1936 and lasted till 1945, and building of the atom bomb were delayed by a few dissident scientist there. The drawings of the Soviet atom bomb were smuggled to the White House itself by 1941 or 1942. The drawings of the atom bomb, along with air blast calculations and materials lists were ready by 1941 at the Soviet nuclear weapons research center. Soviet Union had the best nuclear scientists, with a human tough and humane mentality. At the time the focus of the United States was in radio waves. So, right after the Soviet drawings of the atom bomb and air blast calculations were smuggled to the office of President Roosevelt, President Roosevelt initially put together a rag tag team with G. Marconi, the inventor of the radio, in charge of the American nuclear program in 1942 - 1943. Soon someone mentioned to him that the United States too had a bright scientist trained in nuclear physics who was in a scientific company somewhere else in the USA. In 1942 or so, Oppenheimer called back the White House: he needed two months notice, at the very least. He told officials in 1942 to let Marconi continue, and that he had to give two months notice to his current employers in 1941 or 1942. Robert Oppenheimer and President Roosevelt were both very impressed with the Soviet papers of the Soviet atom bomb, as these were accompanied by extensive airblast calculations . president Roosevelt commented that even he could understand the air blast calculations ND the Soviet design papers, despite being a history major. Their brilliant nuclear scientists decided to have a go slow approach till a Slav (East European) is selected as the Secretary general of the Soviet Union in place of Joseph Stalin. These were smuggled out of the Soviet Union by a few dissident nuclear scientists of the Soviet Union on to the White House in 1941 or 1942. the dissident nuclear scientists of the Soviet Union didn't like the idea of a communist country like their county building the first atom bomb. original atom bomb drawings and materials lists and air blast calculations were prepared in a nuclear bomb research center in the Soviet Union by a team of nuclear physicists, led by Egor Kurchatov. In his younger days, Mr. Kurchatov looked like a handsome man. Soviet chief scientist and project manager of the Soviet atom bomb program looked more like a white beach boy on a surfboard and more like a slim fraternity member an any college in the USA. Later, he started looking more like a mad scientist with age. During the initial successes of the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, Kurchatov and his team of dissident nuclear scientists decided to smuggle out the papers of the Soviet nuclear weapon to the United States. and atom bomb including the original drawings and materials lists and formulas and air blast calculations. These were were smuggled out of the Soviet nuclear weapons research center by two real Europeans:: The two smugglers were two academic scientists from central Europe, actually western Europe. The duo who reached the United States also reached the White House in 1942, give or take 6 month, along with the Soviet designs of the atom bomb were from one or two central / west European countries, either Holland or Denmark or a similar country. came from Igor Kurchatov lead scientist of the atom bomb research center. The rest is history. He almost didn't respond to the President's invitation. He was working in a company working or wired signals and other radio signals. Oppenheimer was the only knowledgeable authority in nuclear scientist in the western hemisphere, unlike the Soviet Union and Germany. Initially he told the White Science he had forgotten nucear science even he had studied nuclear science.
Klaus Fuchs looks like Harry Potter
I’m here after watching Oppenheimer
On a totally unrelated note, when the Soviets invaded Poland in 1939, members of the Jewish community would hand over lists of the names of polish high-ranking officials to commissars.
Maybe this had something to do with how the Polish fascist government treated their eastern colonies...
The soviets already knew who the high ranking officials were. they did not need a list from the poles.
of course many non jewish poles sent their Jewish neighbors to the nazi death camps.
On a totally unrelated note, indeed. What are you trying to say exactly?
Do a video on the Russian pilots many of whom had flown in WW2 battle the US pilots over the infamous Mig alley.
omer ashraf wasn’t MiG Alley Korea?
@@run2fire yes it was.
I plead the 5th! Also, I'm being framed! Cmon man.
That intro was the most filler segment to get ad time I have seen in a while
Lmao u know it mate
Very articulate and well researched. Good point about Ethel have little to zero involvement. But her husband, regardless of his "good intentions", was guilty as charged.
Never in the history of a covert war both part involved can claim: "we have our hands clean".
That radically mis-charcterizes what the kids tried to do. Every step along the way they argued that they were both innocent. Even after VENONA was declassified, they argued this. ... then the Soviets opened the KGB archives, totally guilty. Crestfallen, saddened that their life's crusade was for naught, they, like little whipped puppies opted for plan B. "Well, okay, daddy was a guilty traitorous scumbag, but not mommy!" Their sole piece of evidence seems to be "mommy didn't have a code name. " ... tens of thousand of people died because of their traitorous acts. They deserved to be fried.
This, tbh.
What deaths are you refering to?
What death you are referring to?
Wut???
@@3dPrintingMillennial The Rosenbergs should receive the Nobel Peace Prize for accidently preventing world war three.
Death penalty is what they deserved.
Always the tiny hats.
Always pay attention to last names.
Thought Stalin just stole the bombs.
They were Guilty
I can't say I have much sympathy for the Rosenbergs. They were both true believing fanatics, abject worshippers of the most holy and divine Stalin. Instead of telling the truth they lied right to the end and, even worst in my opinion, foisted on their two sons the lie that they were innocent. As for Ethel's "innocence", she was at least an accessory and certainly knew of her husbands activities. Remember they were both fanatical Stalinists. The result was that they both were executed.
That said aspects of the trial were dubious. David Greenglasses change of testimony, (i.e., perjury), is repellant. Although again it appears he was pressured to change his testimony, which is even more repellant. As for all those people who complain about him testifying against his sister. Just remember he was trying to save his wife from being charged and jailed.
The bottom line was that the Rosenbergs did not tell the truth but coolly lied in the service of their fanatically held ideology. If they had told the truth they very likely, and Ethel certainly, would have lived. Instead they chose to lie to serve the cause. None of this justifies in the slightest Greenglasses perjury or trying to pressure Julius by charging Ethel and given that Ethel's involvement in the spying appears to have been tangential, (i.e., she simply knew about it.), her execution cannot be excused in the slightest. And I have my doubts about Julius' execution. That being said still in many respects they were willing martyrs to the cause.
As for the importance of the Rosenbergs' atomic spying for the Soviets getting the bomb; the evidence or should I say conclusions about it are all over the map. I cannot come to a conclusion. Although I would rate that if Soviet spying helped with them getting the bomb, probably the stuff from Fuch and Hall was more important.
@Steveyboii I suppose you could argue that. But again I am not convinced that the Atomic information provided by the Rosenberg Spy Ring was all that important in the Soviets building a bomb. I think it is more likely that the information provided by Fuch and Hall was much more important.
As for the charges being true. Well they were. The Venona decripts and Sobel's admission 10 years before his death that he and Julius were spies in the Spy Ring is enough for me.
As for the idea that peace was served by the Soviet's having the bomb also? Well Britain did too by this time. The bottom line is that at best the Rosenberg Spy Ring may have advanced the Soviet's having the bomb by a few years at most. And since we now know that various Soviet officials thought the information provided by their spies was crap designed to deceive them perhaps it had little effect.
Your notion that the US was a danger to peace if it had the bomb without a hostile power to it having the bomb to counter US power sort of misses the point that two powers having the bomb who hate each other greatly increases the chances that any war could get out of control. Further it appears to be the case that the Soviet Union getting the bomb encouraged Stalin to let North Korea attack South Korea in 1950 starting the Korean war that killed at least 2 million people.
Finally none of this in the slightest changes the fact that both Julius and Ethel Rosenberg worshipped at the altar of the most holy and divine Stalin. They were fanatical Stalinists who weren't just doing it for "peace" but to serve the goal of establishing Stalinism in the USA. For in their warped minds Stalinism equaled "Freedom" and "Democracy" and their spying was to advance the "happy day" in which the glorious Stalinist system would rule the USA, with terror and mass murder.
None of this changes the fact that however outrageous the lies told by the Greenglasses that both of the Rosenberg's lied and lied far more outrageously in their own testimony. Further they lied to their two sons right to the point of their own deaths about their "innocence".
I have no sympathy for two political fanatics enmeshed in the cult worship of one of the most evil men who has ever lived, Stalin, and who wished with blind fanaticism to impose a similar regime on their own country.
Their executions were unjustified, in my opinion, but I weep no tears for them.
It's hard to follow your comments under the lens of american law. Being a stalinist or any other fanatic is not a crime. Neither it is a crime to hold information that could be used against your husband in trial. Not confessing is not a crime, there's a whole constitutional amendment saying so. And what could they even explain? Even an admission that they were communists would seal their fates, even though it is perfectly legal.
The aspects of the trial are in fact dubious because we know the strategy of the prosecution; we know Ethel was only accused as a form of war of nerves against Julius, in hopes he or her would confess out of fear - the deputy attorney general (William Rogers) even reacted saying "she called our bluffs". It is ridiculous to say the right thing for her to do was to sign her husband death penalty and go home to her kids.
@@bushit123456 Whatever. I actually agree that being Stalinist fanatics was not illegal or any sort of crime. What was illegal was spying. I was replying to Steveyboii's comments regarding the motives of the Rosenberg's. In my opinion they were Stalinist fanatics worshiping at the altar of the most holy and divine Stalin.
We now know that Ethel's involvement in the spy ring was peripheral, although according to the Venona documents she did take part in recruiting Ruth, (David's wife.). And yes she was charged to pressure Julius. And yes it is was not illegal for Ethel to hold back testimony about her husband. However what was illegal was false testimony.
Both Julius and Ethel repeatedly perjured themselves when they testified. They lied and lied in their testimony. Then before their deaths they lied to their own children about their innocence. (Not legal perjury but not good.)
As for David he was under pressure also. His wife Ruth was far move involved in the spy ring than Ethel and hanging over his head, (And Ruth's head.),was the threat of charges against Ruth if he didn't cooperate.
As for what was the right thing to do for Ethel? Well the right thing was certainly not to lie on the witness stand, or lie to her children about being innocent. And of course Ethel and Julius could have negotiated a way out of the death penalty for Julius in exchange for cooperation.
The right thing to do was not to sacrifice themselves for the most holy and divine Stalin, or lie to further the holy cause. Part of furthering the holy cause was lying to their children. But being absolute fanatics they did in fact sacrifice themselves.
Assuming that Ethel's cooperation would in fact have not saved Julius the right thing for Ethel to have done would have been in fact to tell the truth and go home to raise her kids.
It is hard to have much sympathy for two cultish political fanatics who adored one of the great monsters of human history along with a disgusting political ideology and who oh so willingly threw themselves under the bus. And their worship of this monster lead them to spying for him and then in service of the cause to lie and lie. Their destruction had a large element of suicide in it.
@@makinapacal Stalin and Marxism-Leninism, as that's the specific form of communism the USSR practiced, did more good for the world than most ever do. Sincerely, a Marxist-Leninist.
@@jakekaywell5972 Capitalism did more good in the world than most ever do.
I was born on JULY 16, 1945~~~ the day & year~~the “”FIRST ATOMIC BOMB was TESTED in NEW MEXICO””
I always got this question 🙋🏻♀️ answered in History Class/Civics 😊
USSR was pointing and still is, thermonuclear weapons at the human race.
What do you mean by 'still is'? The Soviet Union ceased to exist about 30 years ago.
Also the USA had like 3x as many. Also pointed at human, actually still do
@@the_slamminsalmon The US is the only state to have actually used them in war. General MacArthur wanted to use them in Korea and on Chinese cities. .
the east and by extension gogmagog getting nukes was the greatest blunder in all of history and that 2 the ish gave it to em.
It's funny. Because looking back at it they were inadvertently ensuring that both sides had the same bomb tech, ontributing to a detente that's lasted to this day.
They were scapegoats. They knew were the Russians got the information to fill the gaps in there project. I think it was a whole range of different people who worked on the Manhattan project. Scientists with morals
McCarthy wasn't paranoid. He was right all along.
As right as Trump is still wrong!
Yes he was. He accuse the civil rights activts as socialist.
Mc carthy was right
Excellent show! Thankyou.
*Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.*
Jonathan Jay Pollard (born August 7, 1954) is a former intelligence analyst for the United States government. In 1987 Pollard pleaded guilty to spying for and providing top-secret classified information to Israel. He was sentenced to life in prison for violations of the Espionage Act.
Pollard is the only American who has received a life sentence for passing classified information to an ally of the U.S. In defense of his actions, Pollard declared that he committed espionage only because "the American intelligence establishment collectively endangered Israel's security by withholding crucial information". Israeli officials, U.S.-Israeli activist groups, and some U.S. politicians who saw his punishment as unfair lobbied continually for reduction or commutation of his sentence. The Israeli government acknowledged a portion of its role in Pollard's espionage in 1987, and issued a formal apology to the U.S., but did not admit to paying him until 1998. Over the course of his imprisonment, Israel made repeated unsuccessful attempts through both official and unofficial channels to secure his release. He was granted Israeli citizenship in 1995.
Opposing any form of clemency were many active and retired U.S. officials, including Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, former CIA director George Tenet; several former U.S. Secretaries of Defense; a bi-partisan group of U.S. congressional leaders; and members of the U.S. intelligence community. They maintained that the damage to U.S. national security due to Pollard's espionage was far more severe, wide-ranging, and enduring than publicly acknowledged. Though Pollard argued that he only supplied Israel with information critical to its security, opponents pointed out that he had no way of knowing what the Israelis had received through legitimate exchanges, and that much of the data he compromised had nothing to do with Israeli security. Pollard revealed aspects of the U.S. intelligence gathering process, its "sources and methods". He sold numerous closely guarded state secrets, including the National Security Agency's ten-volume manual on how the U.S. gathers its signal intelligence, and disclosed the names of thousands of people who had cooperated with U.S. intelligence agencies. While Benjamin Netanyahu (current Prime Minister of Israel) argued that Pollard worked exclusively for Israel, Pollard admitted shopping his services-successfully, in some cases-to other countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard
I heard that more evidence incriminating the Rosenbergs came to light after the USSR fell, and the country's files on the matter were opened to the public. But how much they incriminated Ethel is something I don't know .
Guilty!
But death penalty is to harsh, 15yrs prison ok.
USA( some US states) with its death penalty are a shame for a democratic and human nation
@@Sturminfantrist 15 years for high treason lmao
i dont understand is it too much or not enough? 15 years is even for Murder the limit in my country and we have no high treason § here only espionage.
I'd love to learn more about Cold War espionage. It's a major special interest of mine.
Pretty much every double agent America caught was Jewish
Julius was guilty, Ethel wasn't TLDR.
Look up the declassified KGB files on the Rosenburgs. She was just as guilty.
@@ttun100 if you look her up in the venona files you will see that Julius had 2 code names LIBERAL and ANTENNA Ethel name was actually listed as Ethel no code name BUT she was complisit and an accessory ...along with her brother and her sister in law who by the way sold out his sister in a deal that she would serve no time ... that piece of shit was David Greenglass
But we hate to break up families.
Thanks to them, we’re in this mess because of this. Damn them to hell!!! 😠
Thanks to them the American Imperialists didn't drop nuclear bombs on China and the Soviet Union in WW3.
Those two are guilty as charged, good riddance.
It was Roy COHN, pronounced like *Cone.* Cohen is very likely from the Hebrew for priest. Roy Cohn was no priest.
It's a tragedy that these two adults made the decision to leave their children without parents but they didn't what they did knowing the risks. In my opinion there is no punishment too great for what they did
The only thing they "did" was hold beliefs that the government didn't agree with. So much for the 1st amendment.
@@stink1343 It was proven that Julius was guilty, he was a spy, recruiting, passing documents, it's not 1st amendment.
Your mainstream hate for america's history is obscuring your judgment.
@@mklaklaa incorrect, Michal
What they did is saving countless lives from nuclear bombs being dropped elsewhere in the World by United states. In the end it was for better that Soviets quickly developed nuclear arms because it upheld equilibrium.
@@timf2279 they knew the risk. dont give a f about sons and fake indian lady
Of course the Obama quote was shaming America's past. That's all he ever did.
Because its history IS bad, especially the 19th century
America only started bettering itself significantly from the 1950s or 60s
@@totalwartimelapses6359 That is leftist brainwashing or just plain ignorance of historical context. America has ALWAYS been a beacon of advanced society in the world. When it was founded, the rest of the world was still ruled by monarchies and the idea of average people electing their government was unthinkable. When America abolished slavery after the civil war it was one of the first countries in the world to do so. When America conquered and resettled native American tribes they gave them far more rights and reparations than other colonizers gave to natives. When the countries of Europe started world wars and destroyed themselves, America stepped forward at great sacrifice to save them and preserve freedom. America's past is not perfect, but it is consistently better than the alternatives of its time. To say otherwise is to apply your biased modern perspective on things to completely different times, peoples and cultures.
You don't have to be a nuclear expert or a scientist of any kind to give documents or information to someone. Come on.
I am no fan of capital punishment, but if anyone deserved the chair it was the Rosenbergs.
Alfred would be proud
How is executing traitors anti-semitic? Unless...
I'll have to share this one on social media.
Very timely.
I guess it always has been.🤔
Anyway, I'm learning a lot about things that happened in or just before my lifetime.
So very interesting.👍
Thanks CWC 👍
Awesome episode, very balanced, congrats David and team.