The Crimes of Big Boss
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Special thanks to the Master of Machinima, Nourished Psyche! He uses Metal Gear Online 2 to make movie versions of all the unvoiced games in the series. Check out his version of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, featured in this video: • Metal Gear 2: Solid Sn...
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0:00 Genesis
2:33 Enhanced Interrogation
4:19 Kidnapping
6:34 Child Soldiers
10:00 Exploitation of Orphans
11:36 WMDs
13:29 Last Rites
#FreeBigBoss - เกม
Part 2: The Man Who (Almost) Saved the World - th-cam.com/video/UDhVV1BAmgI/w-d-xo.html
Also, can anybody explain why so many people think that the Patriots spread misinformation about Big Boss to make him look evil? People keep commenting with this bullshit, but it never happened in the games, so where did this idea even come from?
"Uncle Ocelot was there the whole time" is the summary of the MG saga as a whole :D
This guy gets it.
“NEPHE… I mean SNAAAKE!”
“It’s me LIQUID OCELOT dear brother!”
was boutta say
Funny. I just finished MGS4, yesterday.
"Uncle Ocelot touched me... I will show you, on the doll, where...."
He is creepy. 🤣
If Big Boss thinks, I agree
If Big Boss speaks, I listen
If Big Boss is an evil villain, I’m a villain
If the world is against Big Boss, I’m against the world
If Big Boss runs Outer Heaven, I work for him
If Outer Heaven has 1 million soldiers I’m one of them
If Outer Heaven has zero soldiers I’m dead
"We live and die by your side boss"
@@alial-king9998 Got a tear rolling down my cheek remembering that 😣
Maybe that's the point? Big Boss is the Legendary Soldier and/or the Legendary Mercenary. Legends turn into fairy tales, words get twisted, History is rewritten (which is a major theme in MGS).
"There are no facts, only interpretations." is the starting quote of MGSV:TPP, the game that supposedly shows how BB turns into villainy. Spoilers: he did not. Because why would he? He's not evil, it's just one interpretation of his legend, of his meme, by the masses, for the masses.
(I'm just trying to follow Kimboji's logic, I'm not defending it, I'm also not that pretentious, it's just how it felt to me as I played the games.)
1,000% agree. And yet, like I said, I've had countless conversations with people who aren't anywhere near as open-minded: basically, anybody on Twitter with a red exclamation mark next to their name. My fault for going on Twitter.
Big boss is a war criminal by metal gear 2. He's plan was a perpetual cycle of warfare.
@@kyzersoze8408 to give soldiers a place to be when the superpowers left them to rot. Considering war already was a business way before Zanzibar land, he's not much worse than the lobbies of the US or the CCCP. The endless cycle of warfare is already perpetuated by every other country, he only wants to sustain his by trying to enter the business and take its money for what he believes to be a good cause.
@@kyzersoze8408 Oh, no! You wasted your time writing all that garbage and now it's gone!
@@UnintelligibleYT Yes sir, can't save the world & be truly free without a army of your own, he was just balancing the scales using tactics everyone else was. Not to say its right, but given his endgame was to help free the world from being pawns, how bad was he REALLY compared to everyone else?
Big Boss believes in Santa, how could he be evil.
I never thought that Big Boss was completely evil. I just chalked it up to the governments of the world labeling him as evil because he was a threat to their power structure.
This has nothing to do with governments in the story and everything to do with the so-called "fans" of the franchise.
@@IANGEL101I the funniest prank of the century
@@IANGEL101I Blasphemy. I am ordering an airstrike on your house
“I don’t care about boss hyperextending this guys leg cause his dumbass deserved it.” agreed. It is wild that anytime you play as big boss he’s taking out worldwide threats and probably not even killing the goons the villains send after him. Would have been dope to have play as big boss and slowly be courrupted into a war crime committing monster
But it’s honestly cooler to imagine he played the part of a villain near the end of his life. In order to raise a successor that would topple any warlords that raised up in the power vacuum of his death. him holding a monopoly over all blues to prevent nuclear war is more effective than trying to stop it by speaking out against it or disarming them individually.
Electro-torture is not "not permanent". You can lose feeling or coordination in parts of your body for life, and your capillaries burst, leading to bruising that leaves permanent scars deep inside muscular tissue. You might not see the damage, but that's because its under the skin and usually felt for the rest of a person's entire life because it accelerates the aging process of nerve cells. This is why real people who've been through real ET try to minimize energy when they walk, the same way elderly people do. This is why its probably one of the easiest ways to "decommission" a soldier by making their aim and coordination useless and this has been done in a bunch of conflicts.
I didn't wanna go into detail about all the things that electricity can do because then I'd be on a one-way trip to demonetization city, but you're absolutely right. Electricity can and will mess you up. Badly. But we don't see that in the games. The way it's used throughout the series, shocking someone is a way of "safely" inflicting pain. Now, if there was just a character who had lost some limbs because their blood vessels were cauterized _inside their body,_ I wouldn't have even brought it up.
@@AfterlifeGames Fair point. This is about how MGS works, not how reality works. 100% right.
@@osakanone I'm glad you brought it up, though. I wish I could've gone more into detail on that. But like I said: Demonetization City...
It can also cause permanent chronic pain
As morbid as it might seem, this topic if quite interesting. Electrical injury can cause ventricular fibrillation, which, along other effects, reduces blood flow to the brain leading to cerebral hypoxia. This in itself poses a great risk at developing numerous neurological disorders, on top of the already assured PTSD, anxiety and such that come with torture.
All torture can have lasting effects, but yeah that wasn't entirely the point considering the in-universe use of electrical torture and it's apparently benign nature.
Honestly I've never really seen big boss as an evil guy. I've just always assumed that in universe his life was hiding mythologized. And by the time of guns of the Patriots he's even seen as a true hero by the general public. Heck I would say that none of the snakes are evil. Liquid solid solidus and venom. Liquid spent most of his life being manipulated by everybody around him. The dude spent his entire life on battlefields. Not to mention dedicated his entire life to fighting against the Patriots and freeing himself. Solid did the same exact thing. Being manipulated and betrayed by every single one of his superiors but unlike liquid he wasn't fighting just to free himself he was fighting to protect people. Solidus was in the same situation and yes he did have child soldiers but he was only 16 years old himself at the time. Something that people overlook. He was a child soldier himself. And after the fact he dedicated his entire life to the principles of the founding fathers of America until he found out everything was being controlled by a shadow organization and he decided to fight back to take back freedom.
Venom seemly spent his life saving people and taking in people who suffered because of war. Yes he found most of his new recruits on the battlefield but it was ultimately their decision and they all seemed to be on board with what he was doing.
Did all the copies of Big Boss did they all have a completely undeniable sense of justice and compassion and only ever did the right thing? Absolutely not but you can't call them evil.
This guy gets it.
Solidus' methods may be extreme but he just wants to free the USA from The Patriots' control. Although he committed criminal acts(such as holding hostages in Big Shell) and being a "terrorist" leader, he was also manipulated by The Patriots in committing acts of "terrorism" to recreate the Shadow Moses incident. Besides, Solidus has a sense of honor because if he doesn't, he could've killed Raiden immediately but he gave him a chance to defend himself despite wanting to kill him.
Yeah in MGS4 Big Boss does say that him and his clones only ever fought for their independence, fought against the Patriot's system of control, they may have done immoral things, and endangered innocents, (I'm mainly thinking Solidus here lol) but in their minds the ends justified the means and their motives were noble.
Also why did Solidus kill raidens parents? Were they combatants or did he just flat out murder them?
I mean alot of games are like that bro. Resident evil 7, you spend the whole game trying to save a girl because she’s “your wife” and that’s all you get. But it’s still a hell of a ride. I personally enjoyed how they started with metal gear solid and basically made a story that gets told backwards. You see everything but you have to put all the parts together yourself to make sense of it all
RE7 was my favorite game of 2017. And it was a hundred times better than RE8. But both of those games had terrible stories. Complete dog shit. Just like MGS.
its almost like the entire point was that big boss wasnt really a bad guy, just a victim of the times, the role he played was to be a universally hated leader of an army, bringing the world together through trying to kill him, anyone who believes hes evil clearly didnt play the games
No one on the planet knew that Big Boss was the mastermind behind Outer Heaven or Zanzibar Land. So it was impossible for Big Boss to be universally hated. Outer Heaven was meant to be the target of the world's governments, not Big Boss. Even after he "died" in MG1, Big Boss was still thought of as the greatest soldier who ever lived. Sounds like _you're_ the one who didn't play the games...
@@AfterlifeGames my bad, i shouldve clarified, i didnt mean "big boss" as in the american hero, i mean the leader of outer heaven/zanzibar, his mission was to be targeted by the world, no matter which name he used. i wasnt disagreeing with the video, the opposite really. i just meant that the world (countries) all didnt quite like this guy who made his own country with nukes and a relatively sizable army who seemed like a threat, its just easier to say "the world hated big boss" than all of that, again, i agreed with the video, i didnt mean to offend anyone
the worst crime big boss committed was stealing midge ure's version of the man who sold the world a whole year early
The man who stole The Man Who Sold The World
His biggest crime was Venom. He used him, he took everything from him and he bettayed him
That's your interpretation, not the story that was told in the game.
@@AfterlifeGamesThe story is that he was brainwashed and used as a decoy. He used him as a tool, the same sin Zero commit with him
@@reaper5491 Again, that's not the story that was told in the game. Listen to the Doublethink tape again.
@@AfterlifeGames Tha is exactly what the saga tells you
And then you woke up.
Huey's torture scene was one of the stuff that lingered in my mind from that game. I wish skullface got similar treatment
While i agree with the “show don’t tell” principle of storytelling-
If we were shown what happened with The Joy before she became The Boss- we wouldn’t have been left with any questions as to her motives for defecting to Volgin’s team and even tho the exposition dump from her lips- telling snake what he needed to know rather than what is the objective truth… only leaves us with more questions when Eva leaves snake a cassette exposition dumping about her true mission to fake defect and take a bullet for her county so that Kruschev will be appeased and not plunge the world into war.
But Eva is also just another Narrator… with an Agenda.
Just like Major Zero, and his team, feeding Snake Exposition and info that would influence Snake’s feelings towards the Boss-
The whole game though, Snake is questioning everything, doubtful, it doesn’t make sense… “why would she defect? I don’t get it!?” and in the torture room when she slips Snake a piece and tells him to Run, while Sorrow straight up gives snake the codec number to unlock the cell door, and Eva tells Snake about the rendezvous point…
Boss and Eva are in Cahoots?
More questions, people telling you “she’s bad! She’s a traitor!” But she’s being SHOWN her helping you cos you’re about to fail your mission if you stay locked up or Volgin time paradoxes you.
We are being Shown AND Told. And what we’re being Told actively contradicts what we see, whenever the story can allow the curtain to slip- we see there’s something else that we’re not being told.
Same as Sons of Liberty- GW and the Ai want to police “objective truth” and control content by “creating context” by manipulating the algorithms and spinning the narrative so only one story will be undeniable fact.
Imagine if we finished Snake Eater and only took Major Zero’s testament as gospel.
The only thing we knew- needed to know was that The Boss was a double crosser and we had to take her out.
In the context of that information there’s no further question. We’re told, but not shown because ve CANT show us her being a war criminal.
Like Big Boss being the megalomaniac dictator who enslaved children as soldier, it never happened… that’s the Narrative that was given to solid Snake in MGS because that’s the context they wanted him to have.
Told. And not shown.
Truth is observed.
Lies are told.
Everything were told… from “Liquids Crew have the Launch codes for metal gear” to “I am the real big boss and leader of outer heaven” and everything that happened in MGS2 that makes you question reality.
It’s all told.
And it was all part of a massive ruse and cover up.
Big Boss is a hero in my eyes, maybe some weird motives but definitely not evil.
I always thought the point of MGS 3 and Peacewalker was to show that Big Boss was more than a one dimensional, mustache twirling villian.
I'll admit, I went into MGS 5 fully expecting the game to show the events of Big Boss turning bad. MGS 3 and Peacewalker let us know why, but we never actually saw the turn.
Hey, there it is again. Show, don't tell.
i mean if big boss wasent there the earth would have been nuked(peace walker), hit with a plague(Skull face) or maybe nuked anyways(human stupidity) but he does do some bad and a lot of good so idk make your own opinion.
None of that would have happened if Big Boss never existed in the first place. He started wars, murdered parents to intentionally orphan children so they would only have him to "save" them and devote themselves to his insane ideals.
Even Big Boss himself admits he was terrible and wrong in the end.
@@mojokharmaSkull face became evil because of Zero (the end would've died of old age)
we're talking about the guy who stopped EVA from shooting an 18 yr old ocelot because he was "still young"?
Idk, I'm ok with Naked Snake having a strong relationship with Boss. Makes sense given the context, and stories need premises. There's always established relationships between characters that you have to take as an axiom.
In terrible stories, yeah. Good stories put the work in, even for established relationships.
@@AfterlifeGames not really. Otherwise it's either a story about someone that starts off completely alone, or you enter a loop where each character requires a book/game/movie of their own.
Everytime a character is introduced as family, or a life-long friend or colleage, we can absolutely accept that without needing to see the development of that relationship.
Obviously a protagonist (or any character) can start already having a friend or mentor, and that should not break inmersion for anyone. No need for backstories for everything.
@@Yarblocosifilitico I didn't say anything about a backstory. You demonstrate the dynamics of the relationship. Through inside jokes, facial expressions, and reactions to both. But if you like it, good for you. I (and thousands of others) think it's garbage.
@@AfterlifeGames right but that assumes said characters are together in the story. I don't see a problem with Snake here having a strong relationship with Boss way before we even see her, which is what I got from the beginning of your video.
Like, let's take 'Saving Private Ryan', except one of the guys in the squad is Ryan's brother. We don't see their relationship in flashbacks or anything but when they reunite we can totally feel the emotion. Why? Because we've already accepted they're close, based on what the story established early on. Again, I see no problem with that and that's all I was saying.
Off topic, no need for contempt. I just expressed doubts about a statement you made; if you can take that level of criticism, beware youtube...
_"But if you like it, good for you. I (and thousands of others) think it's garbage."_
#FreeBigBoobs
My boy did nothing wrong 😭😭😭🙏🙏🙏
I never saw Big Boss as “Evil“. I see him as a broken man clinging to the one thing remaining from The Boss. Different interpretations of her goals are pretty much the focus of the games. Whether it’s the patriots or BB they want to achieve her goal by enforcing an outside force. The difference is if it’s through Intimidation or Information Control. The point is that someone isn’t evil but rather that there is an ethical question to be asked, if giving power to someone else is a way of achieving peace and unity.
I’ve literally thought this the entire time and everyone believes I’m crazy
Sometimes, the entire world is wrong.
0:20 Metal Gear Solid 3 was my first MGS game, so I originally presumed she was developed in 1 & 2 more, I figured this was like a revenge of the Sith final fight between Obi and Anakin type of scenario. After playing all the other games, I was shocked to discover this was her only appearance. We really need a MGS 3 prequel starring The Boss in World War 2, ending with her training up a young snake in the end!
An opinion from Jeramy Jahns was that the point is Big Boss wasn't the insane super villain he was made out to be and the games showed his side of things. Which I always thought was a more interesting idea.
Nah both sides was or became as bad as each other.
Big Boss originally started out with good intentions.
Bringing together soldiers who’ve lost their homeland and give them a home where they could live without fear of being used and abused.
Good honorable intentions.
Then Jack was betrayed by Kaz, Jack forgave him.
But then Paz sacrificed herself.
She was originally loyal to Zero and was sent in to bring Jack back into the fold.
Zero loved Jack, loved him for who he was but also because he was the last remnant of The Boss.
He couldn’t bare to let him go and he carried out toxic relationship methods to bring him back to him.
Anyway Jack was trying to do the right thing by his soldiers, Kaz betrayed Jack.
Paz was sent in like I mentioned but over time she started to become loyal to him.
It’s thought that Zero sent in Paz and assisted MSF to get him (Jack) on side and give him an opening at repairing their damaged relationship.
Now for bad stuff.
It’s thought that Skullface somehow found out how to communicate with Paz and high jacked this method of communication and impersonated Zero.
Skullface as “Zero” ordered Paz to steal Zeke and threaten him and made them out to be insane nuclear armed cultists.
Anyway what broke Jack was Paz’s sacrifice and caused him to basically become the insane monster that he is accurately portrayed as willing to kill anyone and everything to justify his actions and existence but he’s also willing to use anyone whether they were enemies.
Lives were cheap and expendable in his eyes they didn’t matter as long as he could crush the Patriots and replace their control for his new world order.
Ocelot wanted the AI system destroyed and Jack released from his prison and control over humanity’s future would be back in human hands once more.
Most likely Jack would have picked up where he left off using Ocelot’s squirreled away resources and money with the Outer Heaven PMC mother company and Outer Haven.
But Jack didn’t, Jack didn’t metaphorically or literally burn the world down when he awoke.
And the only thing I can think of to reconcile and explain why he didn’t is because while his body was locked up his mind was still conscious and fully cognizant of what’s happening around him.
And so he spent the better part of 20+ years fully aware of everything he had ever done and he realized he was wrong and decided to reform.
He started out as a soldier idealistic and was betrayed.
He essentially betrayed Snake but Snake didn’t become like him and he sacrificed everything repeatedly probably gave Jack a lot to think about.
Big Boss is evil simply because he is not under lalilulelo.
You know how much villainous shit I did as Big Boss in Phantom Pain? The electrocution scene is definitely not the only act of villainy I saw that guy commit...
*You* don't speak for *everyone.* Or the character itself.
Isn’t Big Boss’s public image propaganda, just like Boss?
Yes, but the only time his image was propagandized, it was to make him look like a legendary figure, not a criminal.
Big Boss was never the bad guy
Just another puppet of the patriots.
Not a bad guy? He trained child soldiers and obtained nuclear weapons to hold the world hostage. Yeah, it was defend himself against the patriots, but he was definitely not a good guy.
He wasn't a good guy either. Hope that's not where you were going with this because you'd be misguided if that were the case.n
Turning Big Boss into a villain is the one reason I think we need one more MGS game. well maybe not the only reason but the best reason haha
Every new game with big boss is always supposed to be the “missing link” that makes him a villain. I’ve just accepted that it is what it is, at least we got MGSV
@@56brandonray Couldn't agree anymore. More and more we got games that felt like random additions to his life, that felt like it went nowhere and added near nothing to his inevitable fall from grace. He eventually got the grey area treatment, but the first two mg games made it clear that he was a war hungry overlord.
It’s hard to tell whether or not BB being actually being a chill dude was intentional or if kojimbo just straight up forgor. The series really should have just ended at 3 and 4 with rising as the spin-off. Snake refusing to shake the hand was all we needed …
Been trying to understand the metal gear lore. I think big boss purposely put grey fox/cyborg ninja through all he did on purpose sure he apologized and claimed he shouldve known better. But going off what venom said in metal gear talking about how to make war victims I cant help but think he put him in certain institutions.
You have misunderstood the series worse than anyone I've ever seen in eight years of making Metal Gear videos. But that's a good thing. The only people who try and understand this stuff are idiots like me. So just walk away.
"He I said he was going to create victims and feed them back onto the battlefield"
"And you believed him?"
Big Boss is literally a master of stealth and espionage. Why wouldn't he lie just to further his own plans?
Bingo.
Watching this makes me want to play peace walker again, one of my favorite psp games of all time but my psp and games were stolen years ago. I would love a remake of peace walker and it's sad they didn't add it to the master collection.
It's on the Ps3 with MGS2 and MGS3. I do hope they make Vol 2 and add Peace Walker.
I believe Big Boss wanted to be seen as that monster. He never made any of those atrocities he was accused of but he also didn’t really do anything to change his public image. He knew it was useless so he double down on it and said all of those things to become an even bigger deterrent.
In the UK we have Army, Navy and Air Cadets. My friend who was in Navy cadets used to shoot guns once or twice a year and they basically ran Navy drills (to whatever extent you can without cruisers, subs, ect).
So whilst she never saw combat or ever went on a bigger boat, she'd have a massive leg up on a average citizen if a war ever broke out and they needed roles quickly.
TLDR: You can train children to be ready for war legally
Big Boobs was a good man.
Boobs?
Special thanks to the Master of Machinima, NourishedPsyche! He uses Metal Gear Online 2 to make movie versions of all the unvoiced games in the series. Check out his version of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake, featured in this video!
th-cam.com/play/PLIrrzH6Q5eofYyzVdzZ7GHByWE9JvvnCw.html
I never saw Big Boss as evil. In the old games he was written to look that way but after playing Peacewalker and Phantom Pain he was more of an anti-hero who was targeted and had his reputation slandered.
The only real "villain" in the entire mgs saga is the times. And if you want to say Ocelot was, no he just acted as if he went with the times but went against it to break the cycle.
People STILL don't understand big boss was the ultimate good guy. Guy was willing to sacrifice himself and his loyal men for the chance at world peace
Big Boss is, and always will be, a True Hero. He knew that the same world he tried to save would try to kill him, but he did everything he could anyways, and he succeeded with the help of his brother in arms, Ocelot.
Actually, Ocelot was the one who ensured his failure.
Have a look at the lyrics of “Sins of the Father”:
“Let the world fear us all
It just means to an end..
Our salvation lies…”
pretty obvious to me
A lot of things are obvious to ignorant people. The earth is flat and the sun is pulled across the sky by a dude in a chariot. Obviously.
It's tragic that after putting so much effort into trying to make a world were no soldier had to go through what the boss want through, his fate would end up being the same as her's...
The boss is one of the best characters ever written.
To 12-year-olds, perhaps.
@@AfterlifeGames i think he meant big boss but even then not quite one of the best character written
@@CuackTheDucks Don't underestimate people. Nobody would ever accidentally type "The Boss" if they meant "Big Boss."
@@AfterlifeGames "best character written" atleast he didnt say shown
Big Boss did nothing wrong
Even though big boss was the big bad of the Series.....He really didn’t do anything too bad outside a few minor things....if anything He technically did a lot more good than bad!
why yes, Im Loyal To Big Boss and Outer Heaven, How'd you knew?
Isn't one of the major themes of the series how the powers that be (The Philosophers, The Patriots, the US, etc) make up this big, bad villainous figures in order to keep the masses under control and the flow of History going?
That's the plot of the entire story.
The player makes the choices and morality along the lines of the games story.
Yes. I always had the inclination that Big Boss was a super bad guy was always like a semi-4th wall break if that exact idea and we see his actions weren’t as bad as we’re told.
i dont think he said what he was planning on doing that with the kids but rather he was stating what was happening. he was describing the current situation as he saw it.
Speaking of The Boss I remember someone claiming there were flashbacks to The Boss in Peace Walker, but we only got a flashback of the fight with her. Feel like they really missed a chance to show her relationship with Snake
The way I see it is you don’t need to know everything about her and even when she tells you everything it’s still amazing and I never mind that we never got to see
Big Bosses real crime was loving too much...
One could say these are the... Sins of the father
The soldiers tried to keep the kids out of military areas, they kept sneaking in to play
Big Boss Did Nothing Wrong 🦾
Big boss was right. The governments were the the real villains of the series for making soldiers puppets.
The US were forced to use The Boss as a pawn to prevent nuclear war. They aren't good by any means but it was the only way to stop further deaths.
Big Boss absolutely has the right to hate them for essentially making him assassinate his own mother but that doesn't justify his later actions.
Based and mercenary pilled #commitmorewarcrimes
I genuinely adore these games, every single one of them, they definitely have some poor writing, but overall they're phenomenal in my opinion. Love MG.
It’s a love hate relationship with your poor writing comment it’s like there should be more but it’s a lovable story at the same time
Big Boss is the Video game version of Hannibal Barca and Alexander the Great put together. (The two of them are nearly identical anyways in terms of character and accomplishment). Their enemies saw them as mad and monstrous. Their men (obviously) saw them as far more than just commanders and even a king-which is why they were able to do the nigh unthinkable. Men only follow other men so far
My interpretation of the events of Big boss is that the US saw him as a major threat with outer heaven. And wanted to do to him what they did to his mentor. Boss knew it and wanted to give bad intel and fake his death in MG1 while setting up Zanzibar Land in MG2. I feel it was all a frame up to take out Boss.
Close! Great observations, though! All will be revealed in the next video.
@@AfterlifeGames Wow I didn't expect to be close! I've just been in a MG series kick during the last month. The story MGS3, MGSPW, MGS5, MG1, and MG2 have been fresh in my mind. Mainly because it's been confusing seeing how the way Boss acts and what he believes in do a 180 and he is a flat out terrorist by the time he dies. It feels more like that that is the narrative the government wanted told about boss.
I didn't like the video and now i got moose antlers growing out my ass.
Tried to warn you!
Dear God.....
@@LeonWick526 Antler Gear?
I have never thought of Big Boss as a bad guy. Soildus, Zero and Liquid uh yea. lol but not sure about Ocelot.
BB was initially a bad guy, but as they kept making more games with him they tried to retcon him into being grey area. MG and MG2 made him a clear cut warlord. Solidus was an end justifies the means. Liked his character the most. Liquid to me was the most evil, but on an annoying crybaby side
This is why we need remakes of mgs 1 and 2 since more nuance was added to big boss with why he did what he did
BIG BOSS DID NOTHING WRONG
Big Boss is the victim like any revolutionary that challenges ruling class hegemonic power, he is falsely made into a monster
I was always so confused about why people called big boss a villain when i have literally never saw him do anything villain like
In truth we never got the missing link which turns BB into this brutal warlord we see in mg 1&2.
Good marketing though, since every BB game was advertised as such.
Except we don't see a brutal warlord in MG1 and MG2, either.
@@AfterlifeGamesbased answer
@@jacensolo8310 Stating facts is based?
@@AfterlifeGames Yes.
But srsly, i just recently began watching your channel and i'm very impressed with the quality of your videos man, great stuff.
We did see big boss as a villain you just mightve seen too much of his legend to realize the evils at the moment. Examples. Venom snake existing at all proves that big boss eventually bought into his own legend from everyone whispering it into his ears like Kaz and ocelot, big boss stripped a man who was loyal to him to the very end ,of everything he ever was or would be, and made him venom snake, he made that man himself and when venom eventually dies because big boss was an idiot and was like, yea solid snake go ahead and go to OH. All the accomplishments venom achieved were usurped by big boss, venom was a tool. Furthermore in ground zeroes, we see big boss is clearly willing to kill children when he asks if they should take out Paz (yes she's 21 but bb doesn't know that only cipher does, but thinks she's 13. Makes the love box in peace walker weird asf too, can we add that to him being a villain? I think it'd be too much.) also, he doesn't kill the child soldiers only when they offer him payment, even Kaz said to BB "you know what to do" IMPLYING HE SHOULD TAKE THEM OUT. Then he takes them back and tells Kaz that the kid(s) would make a good solider and are a natural. And we never saw him being villainous? those actions clearly showed big boss being a villain. He created victims fanned the flames and pumped them bsck onto the battlefield. Whether its diamond dogs, msf, solid and liquid, Even venom. We did see big boss become a villain in the end but in a realistic tragic way, i like the slow build to a villain, at the start of his story he IS a hero, and at the end he IS a tragic villain, we saw it through 3 games (4 if you include portable ops which I do) which is why it felt like he wasn't becoming "evil" we loved big boss and will look at him with rose tinted glasses because yes he is and has been a hero, but over time it got warped into something else entirely, not as obvious or on the nose as him saying the n word while stomping on a Bible, but i think thats good, but I prefer story's told with more thinking
Or you know forms a mercenary unity by kidnapping and BRAINWASHING soldiers to work for him. That is the basic gameplay in every big boss game post MGS3.
This was actually really good, and sounds thought out. ill be looking forward to the next one
1:28
Vamp watching them from a distance.
I think the thing we need to take into mind when talking about ANY Metal Gear character is that there are hardly people out there that are pure good or evil, except maybe Huey and Volgin. Do you not remember what The Boss said about the changing times? People can do more than only "good" or "evil" and even then yesterday's good might be tomorrow's evil
Tell that to 30% of people.
Also, wait a minute... Huey?! How do you mention him and not Skull Face?
Was Huey not a bastard? Yeah I thought about Skull Face, I mean it sucks to have your culture taken away and covered over several times but destroying English is just adding damage to the world. Yeah Skull Face is up there too
You mentioned characters that could be classified as pure evil. Yeah, Huey's a bastard, but he doesn't come close to Skull Face. Neither does Volgin, for that matter.
Yeah neither of those probably killed as much as Skull Face, but when have we seen them doing any good?
@@alissaandry1332 I think I see the issue here. The problem is that your sense of morality is underdeveloped. You're speaking as if there's only right and wrong, with nothing in between. Just because you don't see anyone doing any good doesn't mean they're 100% bad. But that's still not what we're discussing. The actions of Huey and Volgin simply aren't on the same level as Skull Face. So for you to leave him out of your original comment is telling, to say the least.
thank you for making these videos i love metal gear and your videos are awesome they must take alot of time and effort to make i just wanna say there appreciated
I'm a big fan of Superman and Christopher Reeves, so the feeling's mutual!
This guys argument: naaahh torture aint THAT bad, its just a lil shock... naaah they good.
But in seriousness, here are my arguments:
Big Boss after the death of his master, started trying to follow her ways, to build an army for soldiers to not be used, but ultimately loses his ways and contradicts his own beliefs. He manipulates Venom, brainwashes him, makes him think hes somebody else, and uses him for his purposes. You can also see posters saying "Big Boss is watching", as hes trying to control his soldiers. The hypocrisy continues with the whole nuke situation, after disarming every nuke, he builds one himself to "protect" his base, which also goes against what he himself believes in. Other countries cant protect themselves, but he can. I don't think MGSV is the story about Venom turning evil, but Big Boss. Venom is pretty much a more refined moral version of Big Boss, after all hes the one who denies the child soldiers and goes against nukes again. And he doesnt build one either.
wasn't that kaz who was against using child soldiers venom seemed ok with the idea in the cutscene when u get back to base with them
BB was already evil by Peace Walker. He mock executes Chico like 30 minutes into the game and then recruits him as a child soldier. Combatant or not a 12 year old had no business living in a terrorist base.
@@nicklindholm1860 i think Venom was following the same mindset at the beginning of V, as the other guy pointed out he wanted to carry out the plan to make the children soldiers, but Kaz put sense into his head and he grew out of it (i think this is due to the induced psychosis, and getting the mindset of big boss)
He became exactly what he once despised, during the time of Snake Eater. A man of power who manipulated his comrades for his own benefit. Just like they played him and The Boss.
I know he didn't plan the whole Venom thing per say. But that was done for him and he played along with it.
I complete agree Big Boss is not showing anything truly evil, he at worst does something that every goverment is complicit in. I don't think this was intentional
I mean he agreed to ruin his medic's life by changing his whole identity without his consent
@@pyrsenI mean,
Medic was devoted to MSF and Big Boss himself.
He was one of best.
He suffered critical trauma while saving BB.
I am fairly sure even if BB asked him he'd agree without thinking to lose his memory and become BB thru hypnose.
@gnat6216 nanana you need direct permission for shit like this him being devoted makes it more if a betrayal, having him clean up his mess while big boss would get all the credit
@@pyrsenthe medic’s life was ruined by Zero, not Big Boss, he agreed because Ocelot convinced him, but it is still noticeable that he isn’t proud of what Zero did but accepts the “gift” since Cypher would be out for his head
All of Big Boss’s crimes were propagandized, Venom did nothing wrong
I always thought that Big Boss became a hypocrite, rather than a villain. He uses his most loyal solider like how the Boss was used by the US Government. But he thinks he's better than that. Even when he himself does the same thing. Because he's the only one that truly has sincere good goals, in his eyes. The road to hell is paved with good intentions
I feel like people wanted to be spoon fed Big Boss being a villain by killing children like he's Anakin Skywalker or some shit. He can be a bit of an ass without needing to be a mustache twirling villain.
absolutewly agree.Playing peace walker I understand his motivation better now but even his actions towards Chicj show that he is a hypocrite and a person with distorted morals
I just replayed the (MGS) series for the first time since I was like 13 (so obviously a lot went over my head. I just remember Big Boss being my favorite snake)
Now I’ve been so confused as to whether or not he was a good guy, bad guy, anti hero, fallen here or whatever else! This helped me lean towards him being a good guy 😅
damn i didnt know i was a child soldier
We should start a club.
@@AfterlifeGames nah im an introvert
@@hoangvuification 😭
Boss did nothing wrong
Ocelot be like:
I've always thought he was more 'grey' than straight up 'evil' myself.
Ok i agreed all of but one of your points. Just because i played COD as a kid doesn't mean i'm a kid soilder, that's insane.
By your logic i'm also a potential killer because i liked GTA as a kid, that point is ridiculous.
It ain't my logic, Hugh. I don't know how you misunderstood that and I can't explain it any simpler... so that's on you.
What he did to venom is enough to be ruled evil
Said no rationally-thinking person ever.
@@dm8in You're wasting your time.
He went against the world government and thus became the biggest villain
Wait you don't think Alex Jones could be.... the fourth clone?
A lot of people have asked why we didn't mention Chico in the video. That's on me. I honestly didn't think that many people seriously believed Big Boss employed Chico as a child soldier. He didn't. The end.
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It’s called story*telling* not story*showing* (sarcasm)
Exposure to enough wattage can actually cause muscles to forcefully contract and burst
But that doesn't happen in any of the games where someone gets electrocuted.
what about chico as a child soldier
Big Boss never deployed Chico to combat. His sister did, but Big Boss had nothing to do with that.
@@AfterlifeGames got it
Well it was kaz who told big boss not to make those kids in mgs5 child soldiers but to educate them and make some good use elsewhere or just send them off
Sounds about right.
@@AfterlifeGames so is he a criminal now
@@manohman8587 He always was.
@@AfterlifeGames i meant guilty but yeah he always was though
@@manohman8587 Again: he always was. But not of using child soldiers.
I mean they explained that Boss practically raised Naked Snake and was like a mother/mentor figure for him, her closest disciple if you’ve ever read anything with no pictures this type of storytelling is pretty common, you don’t always need a super fleshed out account of all their exploits and adventures, you’re playing as a character that just knows these things, and i think they do a decent job of explaining her significance and why shes badass, I swear people complain about how convoluted the story of this franchise is but then i see a bunch of vids begging for MORE scenes of already explained plot points, can’t win lol
Let's hear some examples of the kinds of stories you're talking about.
@@AfterlifeGames ok I’ll give two examples, in Trigun the destruction of the city of July is a major event in the universe that everyone that exists in that universe knows about, but the destruction of the city was never actually shown, just what lead up to it, you just have people talking about it and its what gives the main character his reputation as an evil individual among the populace through the whole story, even in books like the dune series there are characters that they tell you are bad ass, and close with other characters and the only glimpse you get of that are the interactions they have during that instance of time where the story takes place, I don’t think the boss was badly written, they just chose not to go the overt route but through interactions with snake and her actions in the story we’re taking part in i think its clear that shes bad ass AND that she and snake are close
@@jbliggidy123 Do you understand there's a distinction between worldbuilding and character development? There's a massive difference. The only example you gave (and it was only one, even though you promised two) has nothing to do with the relationships between characters.
You vaguely alluded to Dune, but you didn't provide any specific details, which leads me to believe you don't really know. So lemme help you out. Imagine Dune, but Paul and his dad never speak before Dr. Yueh betrays House Atreides. It's fine, right? Because the audience knows Duke Leto is Paul's father. And everybody is _always_ sad when their dad dies. After all, there's no such thing as estranged relationships. Could Paul actually _want_ his father dead so he could take his place? Not possible. So all the dialogue between Paul and Duke Leto is unnecessary. Right? So why not just start the story with Baron Harkonnen capturing Duke Leto?
@@AfterlifeGames lol so Leto talking to Paul and being fatherly for a bit, and then dying, is character development.? even in the book all of Letos qualities were TOLD to us, hes shown respect, so we as the reader assume hes earned it, he says a few words to his son, his wife, his soldiers, his friends, and then through these interactions shows hes tender, loyal, a leader, and he cares about his people, and then he dies, the entirety of who he is and what he represents was implied, and then confirmed through interactions that we saw as they happened in that instance, they didn’t go back in time and expound lengthily on his feats, because just through simple interactions, and feats in the present time where we the readers are getting the story do we get who he is and what hes about, and it was enough, same with the boss, snake clearly reveres her, after years of seeing this character and his clones do amazing stuff i think it was enough just to see how highly snake regards her, how she beats him up damn near everytime they met lol for her feats to be things that people know of in the games universe and for that reason to be respected by other characters as well, even volgin was afraid of her, and for her and naked snakes relationship to be talked about in little snippets shes a character big boss never mentioned until this games if im not mistaken , and now we know why, i get that a few scenes of maybe them developing cqc together or her teaching a young Jack how to shoot or maybe them having a tender moment after she saved his life or something mightve been cool, but i also think the mystery is cool too, she got as much character development as Duke Leto did though, then she died
@@jbliggidy123 Oh, I see. Somehow, you got the idea in your head that it would take a lot of work to establish The Boss as a character, and all the people who know why she's a shitty character want several hours of exploring her backstory, but in reality, all it would take is five minutes.
If you like her as a character, fine. Go do that. For me and the thousands of others though, she's trash. Worst character in the entire series. I'm always glad to shoot her in the face. So much so, that I reload a save just so I can do it twice.
Venom Snake: "Oh, he did nothing wrong, alright."
I really appreciate anyone still making metal gear content.
Should be called "Storyshowing" then
He's outta line, but he's right.
The Law & Order sound and visual got me
I had a cameo from Ice-T planned, but I ran into scheduling issues.
@@AfterlifeGames did you schedule at 6 'N The Mornin'!?
My grievance with BB is how he’s fine with Venom’s creation and use. That’s about it.
Broken window. Venom was created when Big Boss is in a coma and he had no say in it. When he woke up, it was done. He couldn't "unmake" venom even if he wanted to. He couldn't hold someone at gunpoint to return the original guy back. He was permanently gone ( the shrapnel through the head would cause serious personality changes, so the original guy was gone forever). The very fact Venom chose to stay in his role instead of leaving was why Big Boss was okay with it.
@@ShadowHunter-jb3il I think it’s more the fact that he decided on it because it signals to me that BB didn’t have principles holding him back. It doesn’t make him a bad guy, it makes him pragmatic, but I feel like Solid Snake for example would have refused because of his convictions. BB lost those during Peace Walker.
@@christiancordeus1169 That is an interesting take.
"Interesting." That's an... interesting word for it
@@AfterlifeGames @ShadowHunter2070 I'll keep my takes to myself next time then :P
The mgs storyline is one of the few stories more intentionally complicated than Iran-contra
That's what happens when a writing team doesn't know what they're doing. People who aren't good at their jobs add layers to hide their incompetence.
I'm a bit mixed. on one hand he had the means and had threatened the entire world but on the other hand he was trying to achieve world piece. I would consider him an anti hero (because killiing thousands justifiably is still genocide) however a lot of his herioc acts were performed by venom who lost his identity and was brainwashed by the legend of big boss. He manipulated a fellow soldier just to cover his ass just like the pentagon did in mgs3.
Gradually revealing that Big Boss wasn't the villain he was made out to be was kind of the point, I thought.
I see you don't spend a lot of time on Reddit or Twitter. Good for you! You're WAY ahead of the curve!
@@AfterlifeGames I try and lead a healthy lifestyle.
SOCOM for PS2 was the game I trained on. I had the headset on giving orders.
Throwback! I'm gonna have to play that one again.
Ok your argument of playing video games as being a child soldier does reflect some themes in MGS2!
I know.
Tbh big boss and venom snake are my favorite characters 💎🐶
boss you killed a child
Boss those are just kids,don't hurt them!
FIREEEEE!!!
Amazing! Mission complete boss
It was clear by the time i got to MSG3, that the real Big Boss was never a “bad guy”. He inherited his title from The Boss, and MSG3 was to draw out her story and sacrifice as a patriot and for future peace, showing us why she is ‘The Boss’ in that way at least. And i think most of the all the other games together are suppose to mirror the same story of “The Boss’ and The Snakes”