LaserDisc Audio Guide - Part 4: DTS
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- Culturedog Sam Hatch has returned with a small series of videos hashing out the convoluted history of the audio portion of LaserDisc history. Analog, digital, mono, stereo, surround, Pro-Logic, AC-3, Dolby Digital, DTS… all those confusing acronyms and output jacks… all will be broken down and explained.
In this fourth video, Sam discusses the long-awaited LaserDisc implementation of Digital Theater Systems’ 5.1-channel “Coherent Acoustics” surround sound format. Primed to explode on the market as a Dolby killer following a stellar period of theatrical growth, DTS dropped into home theaters in 1997 with no less than Jurassic Park in its corner.
Was it worth the wait? And how does one go about listening to these discs in the present day? Hold onto your butts as we flip the switch and shine a light on DTS 5.1!
Strap in and crank it up!
Chapters
0:00 Opening Titles
0:14 Intro / Recap
1:10 Digital Theater Systems
2:26 Discrete 5.1 Surround
3:17 Audio Compression
4:35 DTS Software Rollout
6:06 5.1 LaserDisc Implementation
8:10 Backwards Compatability
9:28 Market Approaches
11:13 Playback Issues / DTS Drawbacks
15:22 Speaker Level Quirks
16:49 LaserDisc Surround Mixes
18:15 Injecting New Life in LD Format
19:40 Collectability Factors
21:46 Player Needs
22:20 Connecting/Decoding
23:50 Wrap-Up
Check out the roster of all known DTS LaserDiscs on the LaserDisc Database:
www.lddb.com/list.php?format=...
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Intro music: "Anger Mgmt." by Sever the Drama.
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I love watching Jurassic Park DTS. When T-Rex shows up and eats the lawyer, that was the best. I remember going to see it in the theater and all the seats were taken up, so I just sat down in the aisle. I think they totally over sold the tickets that day. What an amazing movie! I watched Waterworld for the first time on a DTS LaserDisc, and I loved it. I tried to stay away from Kevin Costner in the 90's because I didn't like him, but nowdays I can stand him. Especially since that movie was unique as hell. I love the part where the old guy on the oil rig says, "Thank God!" just before he dies from the explosion. He wanted to die since his life completely sucked. I can relate on certain days. Anyway, I'm loving your series. I just bought another DVL-919 since my Sony from work started acting funny. I guess I'm going to have to find another one of the RF Demodulators to get the Digital track. Have you repaired any of your players? I'd love to see some TH-cam videos with people repairing old Sony, Pioneer LaserDisc players. :) Just food for though. Take care, Sam from the Synthesizer channel, machiwoomiapoo. :) Go listen to some synthpop. :)
I need to track down a DTS copy of Waterworld at some point - I love the sound in that film, even though I too never got into the Costner.
How's the DVL-919 treating you? I remember hearing people trash the DVLs all the time, but once I landed a few DVL-90s they really won me over.
Yeah, I mess around with mild to moderate maintenance. The hairiest repair I've done so far was probably replacing the spindle motor in a CLD-D704 recently. I've done some repair recording here and there, but I haven't been satisfied with the results enough to post them. I usually get so focused on doing the work that I pay 0% attention to the video side of things and the imagery is mostly blocked and useless. I need to hire a documentary team to do all the work for me!
@@Culturedog there are plenty of people repairing LaserDisc and other players on TH-cam. But I figured since you are the laser this man perhaps you should post a few as well.I think the DTs version of water world is pretty badass but I just recently got the Blu-ray from arrow video and it's pretty sweet too. my dvl-919 arrived dead but I was lucky enough to find another one in the area that I didn't have to have shipped the dvl-v888. Now I have the ability to do karaoke.
Thank you Sam. I am loving this series! You go into depth in a way that is easy to understand. Which is a problem when getting involved in a so called dead format. I am the type of person that when I get into a hobby I want to know everything about it that I can learn and nowhere have I found the in depth explanation that I crave until I found your channel. Thanks so much! Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much! That's awesome to hear - it's easy to get lost in the weeds trying to explain all these details, so I'm glad it's been coming across well so far! Cheers!
My brother and I were early adopters of DTS laserdiscs. Sherwood Newcastle 945 (iirc) was the first home receiver that featured onboard DTS decoding
A good decoder for AC3RF and DTS is the Denon AVD-2000.
It can often be found on eBay for almost the same price as a standard Yamaha AC3RF demodulator
Gary Reber of Widescreen Review magazine hyped DTS like crazy. He even had a DTS system in his car. I get amusement out of an anecdote that a friend of mine related to me: He played DTS and Dolby Digital for Reber in a movie theater (he was a projectionist). What made it interesting is that the comparison was done BLIND, ie Reber did NOT know which was which. When he was asked which sounded better, he picked.......Dolby Digital.
Honestly I kinda prefer DTSHD over DolbyTrue or Atmos, Atmos sounds amazing in a theater though because Avengers Endgame had it and holy shit..... it was immersive! It makes you feel like you're actually there. DTS is more like a rock concert which I kinda prefer. The DTS DVDs are pretty good but the HD blu rays in lossless are just amazing even when played through tv speakers, it feels like you're in a theater. I'm probably going to post quite a few comments on this one! The different stereo track options for blu ray or LD fascinate me.
Yeah, it seems that most of the time I'm listening to DTS HD Master Audio tracks. No complaints there!
I still haven't heard a theatrical Atmos soundtrack. There's only one theater in my state equipped with it, and it's about an hour drive. Maybe I'll do a road trip for something special sometime.
@@Culturedog My AMC has an Atmos set up and they ape the shit out of it before you even walk into the theater room lol.
Great video! I didn't know that the DTS track only needed a Digital Coxial or Toslink cable. I only have the RCA outputs on my CLD-D502, but next year I will start the Goodwill hunt for one of those digital-out players. I always avoided buying the DTS discs because of my setup, but I do have a Sony A/V Receiver I bought from Best Buy two years ago with both inputs. Thanks for educating the masses, Sam!
Thanks buddy! Glad I could help! It's too bad they took away the digital out on the D502, considering the D501 had one. Keeping costs low I suppose. In any case, good luck on the Goodwill hunt! Cheers!
super interesting and informative man, thanks!
Thanks for watching! Cheers!
Thanks Sam. I thought I knew just about everything regarding DTS but you did bring up some aspects that I had no idea about. In particular, I was always confused about what everyone was saying about levels being too high on DTS and now I know. Looking forward to the next video. 🙂
Thanks so much for watching and commenting! It's awesome to hear that it was an informative video!
I still have such a soft spot for The Shadow 🤩
Same here! Love that film!
Great video! Fun memories!
I think JP on dts laserdisc is the best sounding home version available. Just wish I had a way of backing the mix up and syncing it to a 3d blu ray and uhd.
It is ridiculously good! I know the madmen over at originaltrilogy.com were working on pairing the HD video with the LD DTS audio, but I'm not sure if they ever completed the project.
@@Culturedog I sometimes just put on the Rex attack on the jeep scene and crank the amp up. 💪
Thanks for all your knowledge, I love watching and reading stuff on these old formats. It’s cool to see the evolution of audio and video tech, and how ahead of its time this stuff was.
The laser disc format it’s so fascinating, everything from the cool album like covers to the ground breaking digital formats is interesting.
I recently started collecting UHD because it’s the best way to watch and listen to movies. Just like Laser disc was the end all be all... we have it to thank for bringing digital audio and video theater formats to the home theater.
I’m considering getting a laser disc player for the heck of it, I think it’s really neat. I love the old DTS and THX start up sounds, I wish more movies would do that now.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, I do miss those supercool intro bumpers. I particularly loved the Dolby Digital "Canyon" and "Egypt" trailers.
There's some great stuff on UHD. I'm hoping some of the boutique companies will start releasing more of them, since there are so many great 4K scans out there just waiting to be utilized to their fullest!
Cheers!
Culturedog can you do a comparison video of the DTS Jurassic Park vs the Jurassic Park on UHD DTS?... there’s conflicting info out there that the UHD has the exact same DTS mix as the laser disc with the hotter LFE track but there’s others saying it’s not... I’d love to see a direct comparison, and if the laser disc is indeed got the better slam it my force me to try and get my hands on one sooner than later, and try and get a copy of that DTS Jurassic Park haha! I’d also like to see a visual comparison between UHD and laser disc! Just to see how laser disc holds up today!
Thanks for responding! Keep up the great work!
Mike
I know it’s 2 years old, but I’m really enjoying this series!
Most excellent! Thanks for checking them out!
The first time I heard DTS in the home theater system was in early 2003 and I was blown away. The movie was the Extended Edition of The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring on DVD.
I really like DTS audio and it is too bad that it wasn't as common on DVD as Dolby Digital is. I always thought it was a nice treat when a movie on DVD had a DTS track.
I've got a couple old DVDs that have full bitrate DTS tracks and they sound terrific!
Oh man, I have fond memories of all of the LOTR Extended Editions on DVD! I'll always remember having family over for Thanksgiving dinner one year and nearly demolishing the house with the audio on The Return of the King while we were digesting our meals!
Those old full bitrate DTS DVDs were cool! I still have a few titles that I purposefully sought out in DTS form, like The Haunting, Jaws, and Saving Private Ryan. I just recently hunted down the DTS version of the Nine Inch Nails home video "And All That Could Have Been" - that had been on my wishlist for ages!
It would have been nice I they kept using Full Bitrate DTS on DVD but apparently it took up too much disc space and they were sacrificing the video for the audio. So they switched to the reduced bitrate of 754kbps and it still sounds great.
Did you ever get TLOTR Extended Editions on Blu-Ray? I bought that box-set on sale for 45.00 from Amazon.ca in October of 2011 and at the time the price was a steal.
Oh, man, some of those Superbit DVD DTS tracks are awesome
Agreed @@1dbanner.
The SuperBit DTS Tracks for movies like Hook, The Mask of Zorro, Spider-Man, and Spider-Man 2 were terrific!
I think that they still hold up.
Great video👍
Thanks for watching!
Why Columbia/Tristar, Warner Bros. (not including New Line) and a dash of Paramount were not on the DTS Laserdisc bandwagon is beyond me. You had Disney/Touchstone/Hollywood Pictures/Miramax/Dimension, 20th Century Fox, Universal, MGM and New Line Cinema/Image Entertainment. However, I notice there is barely an anime title on laserdisc with DTS (Digital Surround). As to be expected, the standalone trailer is shown on this DTS encoded laserdiscs. No waterdrop, no organic balls/forming balls or the sonic landscape/piano trailer shown.
I don't get why people are so concerned with re buying movies they already have for an upgrade, you can always sell the old copies on ebay/garage sales or to someone you know and get most of your money back. I've bought DVDs online on Facebook from a friend with Paypal so they got their money back on those old discs! I couldn't resist an OOP DVD of Peter Jackson's Dead Alive unrated.
Right? When I got into LD, they were already talking about DVD and HDTV, so I've always been used to anticipating re-releases on newer formats. It's just the nature of the game. At least with upgrades it means physical media is still being developed and released, so you get another release of a cool movie and support a good cause at the same time! :-D
Great info! How do you feel about steelbook Blu-ray’s versus amaray cases?
I've got a scattered pile of steelbooks in my collection, but I don't actively seek them out for the most part. The only cases I don't get along with are the eco ones - blech!
I would love to have the 1996 dts surround mix of Vertigo ported over to 4k bluray. I can't seem to find it anywhere, but that dts laserdisc.
Yeah, it's great! It gets a lot of flak for sonic revisionism, but I have great memories of hearing it in the cinema when the 70mm restoration made the rounds back in the 90s. I have a soft spot now for those over the top foley effects.
does the dts noise damage ur speakers?.. i didnt know that,, i thought it sounded very simular to when my mate listens to dub step.. great vid again boss,,
Haha! On the flip side, if you run dub step through a DTS processor it decodes into a 5.1 classical symphony! :-D
@@Culturedog hahah that's a good one!!
Where'd you get the DTS Booklet?
It was a big, multi-page paid advertisement in Widescreen Review - I think it was Issue no. 23.
Sam, are there DTS LDs you prefer over the other formats (aside from Jurassic Park)?
Strange Days for the creativity of the mix. Last Man Standing for the bombastic firefights. And of course Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies.
@@Culturedog creative mix? Now I'm curious...
is it fair to say that AC-3 Start up initially is costly but then you can get awesome rocking AC-3 discs for next to nothing , where as with DTS almost no cost initially but each disc are quite expensive there-on??
Yup, that's it in a nutshell!
I have a pioneer DVL-909 which is a combination LD/DVD player.
It has 4 digital outs.
Ignoring the AC-3 RF port there is
an orange RCA jack which outputs PCM
A black RCA jack which outputs PCM and DD
And an optical jack which outputs PCM and DD
Which would i use if i wanted to tap into the DTS signal?
Worth noting that only the AC-3 RF jack says “LD” next to it.
I am unsure if this is to denote that this is a laserdisc SPECIFIC port or if it is to denote that this is the only port for laserdisc playback at all.
I decided to buy the 4K of Avengers Endgame because both have different tracks, the 4K has Atmos while the blu has DTSHD..... you're getting the best of both worlds IMO. Same with Air Force One, the 4K is DTSHD while the blu is DolbyTrue HD which sounded almost as good as DTS..... I'm very curious what the newly remastered 4K sounds like.
I've got both Endgame releases too, though I still don't have an Atmos setup. I'm always at least 10 years behind it seems. I should grab Air Force One on UHD, though I don't know if I want to see that asstastic plane crash CGI in better picture quality! Haha
@@Culturedog That bad cgi plane crash is LEGEND lol. It still looks piss poor but the rest makes up for it.
What are your thoughts on JP blu ray DTSHD compared to the LD DTS sound? Which one is the better one?
Well, the DTS Ld has the original theatrical soundtrack, whereas all of the JP BluRays are 7.1 remixes. So I'll choose the Ld.
Believe it or not, I don't have Jurassic Park on anything but LD. Once I heard the DTS LD, I figured it was never getting better than that and stopped paying attention to new releases. Haha
@@Culturedog If you get it on blu ray, get the 2011 release. They totally fucked up the 3D 2013 blu ray, it is DNRed and teal/oranged to death.... the daytime scenes look like dusk is setting and that someone pissed on the negative lol. Not sure what the 4K disc looks like though but 2011 seems more accurate to the original colors. Also they digitally combed Malcolm's hair in the 3D version lol.
Its stupid how the AC3 demodulator was never integrated into any player. even on the Combo DVD LD players there were three digital outputs. One for AC3 RF, one for DVD PCM and AC3 (maybe also for LD PCM), and a single PCM output (could have been just for CDs but might have also been the LD digital output).
Hey man, what's the model of Sony Projector in your intro video?
@@RevivedMan86 that's a VPL-HW10. An older SXRD 1080p model from around 2009.
@Culturedog Thanks man🤘
I have two DTS LD’s but my player has no optical output, still planning to get one.
Nice! I'm sure you'll enjoy them when you get to check them out!
It doesn't have a coax out?
@@JohnSmith-qn3ob
No it doesn't only AC3.
@@theshadowman1398 You have a LD player with AC-3 out but no digital out??? What model LD player is it?
@@JohnSmith-qn3ob
There are several pioneer models ( and even other brands ) that are like that.
Is there a noticeable difference if you listen to a DTS laserdisc just hooked up to your tv?
Like a modern flatscreen that can accept DTS over optical? I don't think I've tried that actually.
Wow. This was a good one to watch. When I first got my DVL 700, all I ran for audio was my optical. But now that these videos are making things clear I can kind of rewrire everything when I get all my gear out of storage. You have to kind of take the sound for what it is, but in terms of LDs I've never heard a bad one. There was even some hifi VHS that I heard that kinda knocked my socks off. I actually bought a CLD 605 i think off Hollywood Laserdisc. And it came as a recommendation of having the best in terms of all the sound outputs and what not. So I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks!! Yeah, I think the only "bad" sounding disc I have is the U.S. release of Godzilla vs. Biollante - they must have messed something up in the transfer process, since it's super shrill sounding. But even old films with lower fidelity sound great in their own way on LD. Have fun when you finally get to hook up all those audio options!
@@Culturedog it might be a while, but I know you like videos on LD stuff, so I'll whip something together for you. Show you my setup and equipment and some of my favorite discs.
@@anthonywilson1014 Heck yeah! That'd be great!
I wonder how many of the old Discovision players even still worked by the time DTS came out. It seems it would have made more sense to stick the DTS data in the analog tracks and keep the PCM audio intact.
DTS uses 1,536 kbps. Dolby Digital in the analog tracks tops out at 384 kbps. There wasn't enough space in the analog track for DTS.
So I have both the box set and standard release of Jurassic Park. I have a pioneer DVL-909 and an Integra DHC 9.9 preamp with coax inputs. This preamp will process DTS.
I have the digital out connected to a coax input, and have it assigned. However I cannot get the preamp to recognize a digital signal. It’s making me sad.
And it’s really strange. I put my Jurassic Park disc in, and have the digital out going to my DTS certified preamp. When the disc first starts, and the warning telling me this is for private use is on the screen, the preamp is showing DTS audio on the front panel. But then when that goes off and the actual move starts, it switches to “all channel stereo” and will not switch back to DTS.
CAVEAT: None of my discs say anything on their covers about DTS. So maybe I don’t have any DTS versions of these films. I’ll concede that.
Sorry for the late reply! Yeah, the disc jackets will have a very large front banner if they have DTS 5.1. Only a few discs like Titanic hid that information on the back. Jurassic Park DTS definitely has a large DTS logo at the top of the front jacket image.
The original standard release of Jurassic park had PCM and analog audio, so you'd be getting the PCM stereo info over the digital cable.
@@Culturedog thank you for the reply. Yes I did a deep dive into DTS and AC-3 and I think I have it all figured out. I have acquired a DTS Jurassic Park disc and have achieved DTS audio. Had to use the optical connections to get sound. It apparently is not carried over coax.
I have also acquired a Yamaha ADP1 demodulator and am currently awaiting a pair of true 75 ohm coax cables to connect it. After 30 years of collecting, this is the first time I’ve listened to any laserdisc in true digital sound. The DTS sounds phenomenal.
Greetings can you upload some laserdisc movies to watch on TH-cam I found a few full laserdisc movies
Hi Sam- I hope you had a nice holiday season. when is the next livestream? A buddy of mine is selling a few players. He has a nice LD-S2 for sale. Do you think $700 is fair?
Definitely! Especially if it's in decent condition.
You have to be careful with DTS even nowadays, I only keep my tv volume level to 30 or 40 with a DTSHD or lossy DVD track, sometimes 20 depending on the movie's sound mix. It just gets too fucking loud lol! Hard Target is a beast on blu ray, X2: Xmen United on DVD has a DTS track and I always have to turn it down to 20.... it is that loud surprisingly. Those are the two monsters I've come across lately, although Candyman from SF is pretty rockin as well. Freeway 2 blu ray has some HD sound you wouldn't believe for a B grade cult film like that, very surprising coming from a new and very small video company.
I used to love when my AVR remembered the last sound levels used for DD and DTS separately, and if I put a DTS disc in after blasting something like Jurassic Park some earlier time, that same level setting would come back and blast my ass off the couch at midnight when I'd be trying to quietly watch something. Haha
Yeah Sam I have titanic,the shadow, casino Jurassic park and the second one also Jackie brown Casper Independence Day from dust to dawn Apollo 13 eagles hell freezes over goldeneye tomorrow never dies all the die hard movie’s and true lie’s great movies that blow the ac-3 discs out of the water and also the long kiss good night
Oh man, Long Kiss Good Night was one of the first DTS titles I grabbed. That early fight scene in the kitchen made it sound like my house was going to explode! Haha
For a visual cover list by month (assuming we have a cover and a release date...)
www.lddb.com/dts.php
Haha! I had just tried punching in 'dts' in place of ac3 on the other link you'd given me just to see if there was a DTS counterpart!
These are great visual checklists to have! And thanks for all the lddb awesomeness over the years! Cheers!
Hey Sam thanks to Maggie the laserdisc queen from Hollywood laserdisc I got brand new Titanic in wide screen in DTS plus. Alien ws I thx and Beetlejuice and singture serious Scarface last the Clint Eastwood chronicles with outlaw Josey whales pale Rider and unforgiven found a demon amp receiver on eBay that had both DTS optical and a Dolby digital RF in demodulation built in they wanted 275 plus 50 dollars shipping thought you would like to know
Oh wow, some nice scores there! I still need to get the DTS Titanic disc sometime - I saw it in 70mm with DTS in the theater once and it was amazing!
Is it the AVR-3600DTS? There aren't too many AC-3-capable models with DTS as well, so there's a rarity factor there, but $275 is a little pricy for that model unless it's super mint and comes with all the original packaging etc. That one usually tops off around $140 or so. The shipping price isn't bad though, because that thing is a beast!
Kinda sucks there were no DTS and ac3 disks just for the fun of it.
Yeah, they certainly could have done it, technically. Heads would have exploded for sure!
@@Culturedog that would have been something fun to see. And fun to preserve in the modern age
Yeah Sam just picked up the eagles he’ll freeze’s over on dts laserdisc
Nice! I still haven't heard that one - bet it really fills the room!
Love DTS laserdiscs with jurrasic park all the die hards golden eye tommorow never dies the shadow Casper casino long kiss goodnight pulp fiction auseme sounding Hale the culture 🐕 merry Christmas
Cheers! Merry Christmas to you too!