Is This The World's Most Advanced eBike?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- eBikes have been progressing rapidly since their conception, but recently it seems like there's been a plateau in eBike technology. Steve Jones met up with Claus Fleische to talk about his prototype Nicolai bike. This bike is jam-packed with all the latest tech such as ABS braking, internal hub gears with a belt drive and much more!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Welcome To Another EMBN Video!
00:16 - Introducing Claus Fleischer & His Prototype Bike
00:36 - The Motor & The Batteries
05:45 - The Hub Gearing
11:13 - Let’s Talk About ABS
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What do you think of ABS braking? Let us know in the comments below!
Maybe step the lever feel so it's two stage, abs through the first part and then if you pull through you get the ability to lock it up?
wouldn't stop me
I dont want ABS and I wont pay for it.
Already dislike it on motorbikes.
If you have a safety problem, just drive slower.
Gears in the motor and in the heavy hub. The Pinion MGU is a better solution. Put all the gearing and the weight in one place at the BB. Perhaps the Pinion system is not completely optimized, but that approach seems to be superior with less total weight, less unsprung weight, one gear case, and more centralized weight.
Amen... I second those thoughts!!!
Me too
Agree
Which part of prototype is hard to understand, bud? , he is the CEO, the CEO and he can do whatever craziness he wants whether it makes sense or not
@@IHatePikeys For sure he can prototype whatever he wants. I hope this prototype leads Bosch to develop an MGU - a really good one
What a great interview. Claus knows what he is talking about. Very exciting times.
He's a wealth of knowledge is Claus!
Interesting. So the choice is gonna come down between the MGU of Pinion and the rear hub gear of Bosch and Rohloff. Let battle commence. Also interesting to see that both systems are employing the Gates Belt drive as their primary means of transmission.
I can see a load of people (me included) ditching their derailers for a more reliable easier to maintain rear internal gear hub. Just a shame Rohloff couldn’t bring down their prices but maybe that’s for the future.
Valeo got there first and its better. The automatic shifting is amazing
@@Alex-uh1mj I severely doubt that it’s better.
@@johnchristopher5075 well ive used them both extensively. Bar the weight penalty its far better..
It has all the advantages of the Pinion MGU except the heavy weight at the rear. I think Bosch is looking for comparable technology and sees this solution as a bridge technology.
Like the modularity idea, especially reg. batteries ; i'm interested on more detail on this 3x3 internal gearing hub variant.
Btw ABS-braking has also been around for longer than that ; as a mechanical non-electric hydraulic-braking version.
I guess I don't not understand the reason for the rear hub. What is wrong with the Pinion MGU where they house 12 gears? Why the complexity when Pinion has it already figured out.....the difference was really not explained
It’s basically just two different companies, doing the same thing in two different ways (Pinion may hold some patents on that design). I agree with you on the Pinion, would be my choice. I think moving that weight out of the rear hub (having the rear wheel similar in weight to the front) and low down in the middle of the bike, will give a more balanced ride. 🙂
I think Claus is obviously just trying things out, it's not really a case of a head to head as such. I was pretty amazed at the lightning speed of shifting under load
Interesting what Bosch is prototyping. Steve, did you get the bike off the ground? How balanced did it feel in the air?
I cannot help but think this prototype is a way of researching how Bosch is going to integrate gears with the motor? We all know this has to be the future?
I have been riding my 2017 S-Works Levo Turbo 6 Fattie with its motor re-conditioned, with much stronger bearings and much better seals for more than a year. At the same time as re-conditioning the motor, the rear hub was replaced with a 14-speed Rohloff internal gear box. My bike performs and handles far better than it ever did with its original Sram 11-speed derailleur gear set. I cannot recall ever noticing a difference in braking or rear suspension handling, even though the Rohloff hub gears are heavier than the Sram. The wider range of gears enable me to climb hills I could not previously climb. My battery consumption in Eco mode seems to be about the same as it was with the original drive train. I regularly achieve 120-to-140 km on a single charge of my 540 Wh battery. With the Rohloff my maintenance routine is simply performing an oil change once a year. That’s all. My rear wheel is stronger now with its shorter spokes. I have never had to true the rear wheel.
Internal gearboxes are the future of eMTBs.
Are you running Gates with this setup? If so, what tensioner did you use?
My next emtb will be a belt drive bike. Glad to see that Bosch, Pinion and other companies are moving this way. Hopefully they can be affordable.
yep me too, will be keeping my beaten up cube stereo alive until then
i would luv to see a video comparing the MGU of Pinion and the rear hub gear of Bosch and Rohloff.
Claus, a man after Mr Jones’ heart😆. Great to see that he’s not sitting behind a desk but getting out there and using and developing these products to enable the mechanical tech and electronic tech blend and fine tune. Of course we mere mortals cannot afford such a piece of kit but know it will improve and filter down 😎
I think it's really interesting to see how things develop🤔
Very interesting interview. Nice to hear from big boys of the e-bike industry!
Innovation coming from every corner. Exciting times! 👍
Amazing developments going on guys - thx for sharing!
a bit of "elephant in the room question": could we all expect an integrated motor/gearbox from Bosch anytime soon?
It's the future ,many others are trying so Bosch won't want to be left behind.
Yes, but then the gear bearings will get messed up from water too.
Oh heck did we edit the question out? 😉
I'm a proponent of IGH... lightweight ones (the Kindernay 7 spd) but the 3x3 is way too heavy. Too much unsprung mass reduces efficiency of braking and sus travel...the tradeoff isn't worth it yet. It can't be any heavier than current Sram Transmission to really be a true breakthrough. Otherwise, go with the geared motor like Pinion and put the weight at the BB for lower CG. But it's still too heavy currently. Plus, each motor company has to make their Pinion version....so time. Conclusion: Wolftooth Or Oneup, buy Kindernay IGH tech and improve it.👊
Forward thinking would be creating industry standards on battery pack mounting, motors and communication standards between them. Allowing to ride a shimano motor with a bosch battery pack.
Soo sick! I wonder how much this would weigh w just the 400w in tube battery?
Amazing bike, I've bashed my derailer hanger so many times, I bought a tool to straighten them. That rear hub gearbox is brilliant.
Good to hear that development is running...but what about opening the Bosch system to third party Garmin computer for data sharing for example?
Great interview and bike😊
At the the end of the day I just like to see long travel emtb with big battery full power & transmission. Looks like Nicolai are on the right path 👌🇦🇺😎
What do you think is the best gear set up that bike or the pinion 12 speed set up
Incredable cool bike ..gpod job , keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Nice and using products already invented will speed the production time ..👍
Just a thought with the geared rear hub will that make the wheel stronger? Shorter spokes less flex ??
That's an interesting thought!
My Dream bike! Make it and take my money already!
Prachtige fiets en de gebruikte componenten zijn top.
I like it a lot 🥳👍
Klaus is looking fit! Snell!!
The 4 pound hub adds a lot to the rear end
Will mud and dirt ride the belt in and clog up the internal gears?
Which schwinn trailer is that i want one for my chihuahua kind of want this exact one so its small enough for him to stand up and stick his little head up and feel the wind thats his favorite lol
What do you think Karl Nicolai or Pinion
They need to do more testing in a UK weather, grit and rain seem to kill them over here
Hey Christian, when you say kill...what part do you mean?
Steve is right, 12 speeds isn't needed. 8 or 9 would be fine as long as the limits are the same (big and small gear).
Nice setup.. I just want the rear hub..)/*
Internal hub shifting is the future. Bashing a derailleur is day ending and to have such a delicate mechanism so exposed has been going on too long.
I’m more interested in ABS for safety than performance. it takes much longer to recover when you’re 48 - if ABS saves me from a stack I’m in.
Oh yeah the safety elements are still there :)
I'm already a fan of Nicolai, and anyone who offers an alternative to the derailleur.
i really like the idea of modularity when it comes to battery packs. Would then like to see double (2x 3A = 6A) and triple chargers (3x 2A = 6A). It'd be nice, but they do not need to output the full 6A to one outlet, if it saves cost. And - please - all chargers should be programmable chargers. For 90% of my rides, I don't want or need to charge my batteries to more than a 80% state, let alone at a cell-flooding 6A. When i have the time overnight during the week, i'd rather charge at 1A (~11h 20-80% for 625 Wh (i.e. charging from 8 p.m. to 7 a.m.)) and keep the battery usable for longer :)
6 Amps isn't really that fast to be honest. I have charged high quality lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries the same size at 60 amps and it be fully charged within 20 mins. Now the batteries at that charge rate won't last near as long but dropping from 6 amps to 1 shouldn't make any noticeable difference at all and charging to 80 would make it last longer most of all the chargers I have seen have a button you push that charges the e-bikes to 70 percent.
Honestly on one of my EMTBs I have charged it completely every time unless I don't think I'm going to ride for a while and then I will charge to 70%. I have had the battery and bike 4 years now and the battery health and capacity is still at 97% of new and I get to ride longer because I charge it completely.
6A is not that fast and the 6A charger is rated for everyday usage without compromising lifetime. I've been using it for years and the battery is as fresh as it was when it was new. The rest of the bike will fall apart before the battery comes to a point where I notice degrading performance. To be honest, I'd even prefer higher charging rates at the expense of lifetime, simply because there are occasionally situations where a quick charge would save the day...
@@Bouncy8864 I agree 💯
The added complexity of the hydraulics in regard to bleeding, will be an added difficulty to manage. With motorcycle abs systems, it’s somewhat fussy a process to get the air out of the hydraulic lines….is the bike abs system a similarly fussy proposition ?
It should be exactly the same as a standard hydraulic bike brake! There are usually a couple of quirks to getting it perfect depending on the model, but once you learn that you'll be sorted
I prefer the Nikolai with the Pinion MGU
Tech goodies apart (some of which sound fun) I couldn't spend a fortune on something with an external battery - on an eBike it seems a step back
Controverse Question: How do the development engineers at Bosch feel like after Claus told them they aren’t allowed to leave the office until they develop sth. similar to the Pinion MGU. 😅
Oh! I'm sure they were down the beach!😃
So if the rear hub has 3 speeds the where are the others to make the 9??
@adrianturner4249
The IGH on this bike is a 9 speed hub. The name of this 9 speed IGH is 3x3.
I've really been impressed by everything I've learned about this 3x3 IGH hub so far and if I was in the market to build a mid-drive bike my choices for an IGH would be between this 3x3 9 speed and a Rohloff 14. I'm currently converting a non-electric bike with a Pinion C1.12 gearbox and Gates belt drive setup to an ebike by adding a Grin Tech All-Axle rear motor w/ built-in torque sensing.
I agree that the Pinion MGU Gearbox bikes are great and they are on my radar for future ownership!
Don't mind the 9 speed as long it is as wide range as a 12 speed...
That is the dream bike....
It's pretty cool!
I wish i could own a Nicolai !!!!
same
Make your wish come true, knuckle down and get saving 👍💪 never wish have faith 👌
@@megane230f1 At the moment impossible, I’m a full time carer, no scope in saving and had to sell my Harley and a few other items to survive
You can be almost certain that the transmission is going to be in the e Drive bottom bracket
Wait, what? If an emtb only needs 9 gears, which 3 would you give up ?
can't help but think bosch already has the technology to remove the gears completely with cvt pushbelt
U mean those from scooter/moped 30/50 km/h? And/or the Shimano novinci? 😏
Hub gears is definitely not the way. Motor + gearbox is the way. Pinion got it right.
You have already got the Nicolai Eboxx GT1 MR14 that covers everything you are trying to achieve. Can't beat a totally proven manual 14 Rohloff and belt drive with tucked in front mounted tensioner. Electronic change is never going to be as good and reliable as using your brain and wrist to select multiple gears that you need for the terrain ahead. E=Mtb²
take my money
I have ABS capability on a dual sport motorcycle (on and off-road capable). I primarily ride it off road and have disabled the rear ABS with a 'dongle' that the factory sells. The front ABS defaults to on and has nearly caused me to crash more than once. I won't buy another dual sport or off-road motorcycle with the system unless I can easily remove it. I don't want it on a bicycle.
No to ABS and YEEESSSS to modular batteries!!!!
Why are you not a fan of ABS? The idea of modular batteries sounds great though! 👍
@@embn Because I use to lock the front brakes, as a means to have a feedback about the amount of grip the terrain is providing.
The techs out there to be exploited and made better or worse shimano and sram will be next to have their versions! Just sounds alot to go wrong and cost alot to fix! I'll Stick to the derailleurs, warranties need to be a massive part of this system thats for sure!
15k emtbs around the corner
Ich find die "neuen" Entwicklungen schon Geil,
ABER was die Fahrräder am ende Kosten schreckt mich dann doch wieder ab.
Es sollte immer noch ein Fahrrad bleiben.
Son: Mom I want Pinion MGU ebike.
Mom: No we have Mgu ebike at home!!!
Shows bootleg MGU Bosch rollooff combo bike.
The downfall off 12 speed cassetes and derailleurs is here people and it's called Pinion 12 speed .Bosch, Shimano are shitting their pants because they know it's over for them and they have no answer for it.That's why now Bosch is making a statement of this ''NEW tech" .It is soo new infact that you can actually get 1 of roolloff hubs since 2015.People used them on their commuter bikes for ages but now you can put them on EMTBs too. I bet shimanos answer to pinion12 speed MGU is Alfine Di2 .What a shit show!!!!
whats weight of rear wheel? .....everything else looks good....low center of gravity...better brakes....lets see some pros test this.....
Are u interested to test our ebike?
If Claus is not stupid he will just buy Pinion. They are based in the same City anyway.
Forward thinking? Let's get the water ingress or motors worked out first.
This would be a big fat no from me. Too much weight in the hub, external battery is also a no. Big ugly display on the bars, no. Also a big no on the ABS. Pinion has the right idea with the full power MGU. Motor, gears all centered in the bike with belt drive.
It’s a motorcycle
Getting closer and closer to a motorbike me thinks (electric one that is)! What’s next, an emtb with no pedals and an accelerator?
Nobody wants a chain / derailer….. thank goodness they’re on their way out
Something from Banana republik can‘t be something advanced.
Lame. “I need motorized assistance to ride a bike”. Assistance is for the weak.
May 25 2024. If I understand the bike is a combination of a frame BOSH electric motor and ROHLOFF internal hub on the rear wheel ? How about instead of BOSH a PINION 12 gears + ROHLOFF ?