@Anonymous One hopefully eBikes bring in a huge new wave of demand which can help to reduce prices over time but yeah I do find it surprising how similarly priced EMTBs are to motorcycles and besides a few risky Ali Express options there doesn't seem to be any way to get the best tech from 5 years ago for a low price.
All they need to do now is to include a jacuzzi and coffee machines in these things and it will be perfect, smh. To be honest, this isn't cycling anymore.
Rubbish tech. All it’s doing is shifting under load which we have been told not to do since bikes were born lol. Shimano are chasing sram and running out of ideas. Until they make wireless it’s game over
A system like that is reactive whereas a good rider is proactive. Good for noobs I guess. The one feature that genuinely looks useful is the ability to shift while keeping the pedals level. This could be handy if you are going downhill through a gnarly section and you know that there is a punchy climb coming up, you could shift down, ready for the climb without having to risk clipping your pedals.
@@mremtb7689 You can’t use the word “react” and then say it’s proactive. I would shift down before I even got to the climb and you can bet I would avoid crunching the gears like they did in the demo.
This ia all well and good until your Shimano motor gives you the E010, I'd rather Shimano spent some money on developing a reliable motor before trying to sell us a load of tech we don't really need.
Great content thanks! I can see FreeShift working for me, not sure about AutoShift, I hear a lot of “bad” noises that I normally try to avoid when going uphill. Good to see some R&D progress on drivetrains. 👍
Seriously, Shimano and friends are just treating customers like sht continuing to push derailers and systems based on them. The gearbox/motor combo already exists and is the only future for ebikes but then they wont sell replacement cassets, etc. EMBN know this and have the power to help push them into the market but dont. Lots of vested interests in the industry and its BS. PS- This auto system is going to eat your drivetrain even faster shifting under load all the time, enjoy buying even more parts from Shimano.
I think this is awesome. ABS, auto shift, give me all the tech! I don’t know if I’d actually use this personally but I love seeing cool new stuff like this.
so when i manually shift as im climbing i can time it so i take off some pedal pressure. How does this system NOT lead to that horrible gear grinding and destruction of your equipment. I know its more durable, but i cant imagine its good for it when you are pressing hard up a hill and it just shifts anytime it wants. otherwise, sounds really neat.
I was wondering the same thing. I think all this system does is you don't need to press the shifter trigger anymore but the gear change will remain exactly the same as manual shifting.
i hate Autoshift. why is that a thing? i dont want anything to shift on its own. especially off road. freeshift is pretty cool though. you can actually do that on emtbs that have a seperate walk assist button by just pressing that and shifting.
A solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. More expensive more complex and gives bike manufacturers more reason to charge us more money. When I started riding an expensive bike was £1000+. Now it’s more expensive to buy a mtb than a car! Not for me
@@fraser6127 compare cheapest new car with most expensive EMTB perhaps? Or consider that you get a lot more motorcycle for your money compared to high end EMTBs.
@@fraser6127 I recently bought a BMW 1 series to drive around the UK with my bike. It cost 3x *less* than my MTB, and it's not even an electric MTB. So to answer your question; this world.
@@----.__ what are you comparing? A 15 year old car with 100,000 miles to a brand new top spec mtb? Hardly apples to apples is it. I can buy a old studio flat in the northeast for less than a new BMW 5 series, does that mean cars are more expensive than houses now?
@@fraser6127 _"in what world is it more expensive to buy a mtb than a car??"_ You're the one that posed the question, I simply answered it with a real world example. To answer your second question, yes. Cars are more expensive than studio flats. I would have thought that was obvious.
Free shift seems useful... the same as a internal geared hub... not sure about Autoshift... and the shifting under load has me concerned... still waiting for a real gearbox and a belt drive system on a mainstream bike...
Why does shifting under load matter? The tension on the chain is on the top between the chain ring and the first few teeth on the sprocket. Where the chain is changing gears from the derailer, there is actually not much tension at all
Very nice but there sounds to be a lot of banging coming from that drive train changing gear under full load, I wonder if we are about to have a chain snapping epidemic 🤔😬
Gearboxes excite me and I want to try them and I'm excited to see them evolve in the future, but the biggest turn off is the current inability to shift under load, this is the greatest weakness for gearboxes on emtbs when even if you are currently in the right gear to climb, your angle and traction constantly changes on a challenging climb and you're left having to cut power to shift. Sounds extremely complicated to make autoshift work with a gearbox
Amazing how tech evolves! I am not able to ride as much as i did due to medical reasons. Looks like this would be a great option for me so i can go back to riding!
It's a bit rowdy listening to a motor on an e-bike on a ride, listening to the gears crunching away as well might just be a bit too much for me (not that I'd put it on my muscle bikes either) !
Nice, that is awesome, finally I can focus on important stuff like texting, playing a game on my phone or checking the stocks while doing a steep uphill climb or a technical descend!
Noisy shifts... but if the chain and cassette are designed to take that extra abuse without shortening their life then it seems like a great idea. Now we just need Shimano and Sram to collaborate and combine linkglide and the new derailleur mounting system into an industry standard... probability wishfull thinking 😂
The new system was designed to withstand shifting under load - they specifically designed the chain and tooth profiles to withstand it, which in turn allows a system like Auto Shift to work.
@Electric Mountain Bike Network made to withstand the shifting under load... ok I can understand but that's the same a wrong way to shift gears and only in emergency situations should be done, that fact that is considered "normal" in my opinion is a bad advice.
Just like ABS on bicycles, another solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Like already mentioned, it just makes MTB's more expensive with tech for the sake of tech.
Looks like the point of this is for people who don’t know how to ride bikes/E bikes. I’ll bet many inexperienced riders lugging the bike up hill in the wrong gear in turbo ruining the life span of the motor.
Linear progression is one thing where a semi-smart power ratio dilemma can be solved easily. However, the instantaneous progression over obstacles is quite a different story. If you can have both running simultaneously, using both modes, or all 3-simultaneously. So manual and terrain settings might make it worthwhile. If he said it’s possible, I didn’t hear that.
That looks like it's going to really shorten the life of chains and cassettes by doing all the poor shifting we've been told not to do previously. Mixing that with sram's t-type system, on the other hand, would be fantastic
Shimano is probably not too sad if you have to buy more spare parts in the future, claiming, that this is just a small "downside" of the huge comfort benefit 😄
Cassette is all high alloyed case hardened steel now, instead of previously being part aluminium, slightly heavier but that's no drama for the E power.👍🇬🇧
You MTB guys are getting so soft that soon you will be able to stay in the cafe drinking coffee and just send the bike out to do the track for you and GoPro the ride,instantly sending it to your mobile for your viewing while you are sipping your drink.
I really do not understand why people are so upset about this tech. you must be some old boomer than hates the new generations because "back in your day, you kids had to ride over mountains and trudge through snow storms to get to school"
"Back in my day bikes were single speeds. You struggled up the hill without some fancy high gear to make it easy on your legs. Next you'll tell me they gave you lower ones for speed." This is how you sound. Let people enjoy things and be excited about them. Negativity does nothing for the conversation. Grow up and stop gatekeeping bikes.
I imagine it still has a big impact on your drive train... Shifting early manually should theoretically protect your drive train and prolong its life. Does not sound very good and would actually annoy me.
I can see the autoshift and freeshift being useful, especially on commuter and cargo bike applications. Not sure autoshift is something I would like on an eMTB though. I upgraded my eMTB to SRAM Transmission and shifting under load has been great feature when I shift late. Hoping to see a more robust/waterproof and serviceable Shimano EPxxx series motor in the future. If not here's hoping aftermarket motors designed to fit Shimano motor mounts become a thing. C'mon Bosch, get it done! :-)
Rode a cargo bike Urban Arrow with auto shifting (not shimano) in my past job, it works really smooth, but I miss the sound of my rapid fire shifters. Also when I normally shift I reduce the power I put on the pedals so the chain can go over smoothly, which is pretty much impossible to time right with auto shifting
Hello eMBN, do you know if it will be possible to mount the new Di2 XT 12 speed on bikes with EP8 (DU-EP800)? Of course without Free/Auto shift as DU-EP801 is needed. Thx
I've been looking for a link that has this bike listed with all the auto shift features on it but am unable to find anything with cost or models that have this. Is there a link to this bike and cost. Thank you
Great reason to add 2000 to the price tag 😂 but we will pay it because we love it! Personally i would hold off until an integrated system is achieved, fair play for this system and the research into automation. This would be a respectable decision for any new bike released. There are rumours of a gearbox / integrated unit being developed by Shimano as we speak.
Ok from the sound of it you can tell it eats the material. Thanks for showing us. Now I know I won't switch to such things. Always good that this channel shows us what to avoid ❤❤❤ I like you very much 🎉
So i think this is great….now if I could only get a hold of a one. That said, the Canyon Spectral CFR has the 12 Speed version, and Im pretty sure you were testing the 11speed system. According to Shimano, the 11 speed cassette is 3x more durable than other cassettes which is key in eMTB. Thoughts?
Motor gearbox combos you would think will be in the works soon. Hey Steve? How much faster in the real world….! On trails. Test 1. Is this something else that needs charged up ? The so called cheap SX/NX on my husky has 400 hard miles on it trouble free so far. Happy Trails.
Nice to see some advancement in the bicycle industry. Ebikes are becoming a very reliable and a viable replacement in the real world. I'm 18k miles on my ebike motor and it's not required any replacement parts yet. Autoshift is used in other vehicles so why not bicycles.
Idk if auto shift is for everyone. You have to be going up some narly climbs to benefit from it. For me im happy with the GX system. When my ship comes in maybe ill be the cool kid on the block.
Can the E7000 do Auto shifting? 1. "Compatible with Di2 RD-M8050" "D) Gear shifting mode* 2.Displays current gear shifting mode as [A] (Auto)or [M] (Manual)."
5:08 Autoshift failure. No, it wasn't rider error but a clear demonstration autoshift's inability to anticipate and accommodate upcoming terrain changes.
Nicely done. Even though you and the bike handled that abruptly encountered climb, I'm still thinking last minute shifting can't compete with human predicting. In other words manual shifting would start the climb in the correct gear, where as auto uses part of the climb to understand gradient - risking a failed climb. Maybe A3 setting: "Siri, I need 2nd gear" LOL
I'm very sad after buying my Cannondale with the Shimano EP8 (EP800) and a few days later the new version of the EP8 (EP801) appeared, I was shocked by the fact that it was not compatible with my bike frame and battery. I understand the industry but it is a lack of respect for consumers, because I'm subject to the EP800 and the BT8036 battery disappearing from the market when they need to be replaced. This is an expensive bike that was difficult for me to buy, and I don't know if next year I still have spare parts for it. Give your opinion about this complete mess in the market.
Been riding for 25 years - still cannot see how this is even slightly better - AND WHY - compared to a 1995 24-speed LX, for instance. More weight, a battery to charge, 100x times the breaking points - but it's all good because it has an APP. I don't know how to say "keep your head grounded" in Japanese - but someone needs to tell that to Shimano loud and clear. Otherwise the fanboyism of "tech for tech's sake" seems overhyped.
I Thought Part of the Fun of Bike riding was Deciding What Gears to use,But I Suppose You Can Compare This to F1 They Have Not Used a Gear Stick For Years and Call Themselves Professional Racing Drivers So This Tech Will be in the Tour De France Shortly😊 Better if they Stopped Messing About And Spent Some of there Massive Profits and Made a Gearbox in the Motor With a Belt Drive As Chains and Sprockets are a Pain in the - To Keep Cleaning etc
Shifting under load? My SRAM EX1 drivetrain is approaching 5,000 km (Cairngorms use only) and is doing fine with the old Gen 3 CX.... avoiding anything that needs a "smart" phone app and de-skills you as long as possible...
I’m stoked on this new tech, got me thinking of selling my current EMTB and buying this new one.. but I will give it a year for any bugs to be worked out first, until then shred on..
90NM from the motor, 500 watts from the legs on full power while shifting, where does the power go ? It either has to go into the rear mech, the chain or the cassette. I really do not see your components lasting longer than a year with this even with mild usage.
Isn't it true that you should not switch gears under load? And the autoshift is doing exactly this. In "manual mode" you shift in advance, control the load and the shifting moment. If you cannot manage your shifting manually, probably you should not be mounting biking. There are a lot more complicated thing going on during the ride, than the shifting. Honestly, I cannot see the future of this and certainly cannot justify the price. But of course, probably they say the same for automatic gearboxes in cars. :)
That's not a bike anymore, that's clearly a motorbike with an automatic gearbox. You climb stuff that would never be possible with human bodies. I really like e-bike as they allow people to avoid using cars, reduce carbon emissions, practice some activities, etc... but let's not forget there is a motor and a battery inside and these requires lot of resources. They are costly. To put a battery in an enduro bike and use it like a motorbike to go to place we would never go, that's a waste. It just "adds up" to the resource we are using and wastes we are generating, and does not replace anything. I hope these technologies will help people access cycling, but if it get too hard, take another route or push your bike...
So Shimano have probably figured out how to see where the crankarms are to shift in the dead spot of the pedal stroke, but...damn, if that isn't shifting in all the places that kill drivetrains. No human would ever choose to bog down in a big gear and then shift to a small one under load...and this is human + motor load. Just like a person who knows how to shift can generally beat an automatic gearbox by anticipating what is coming, the rider who can look ahead and shift *before* they bog down will do much better and break lots less chains and/or cassette teeth. But maybe that's what you get in manual mode. One other question: does "free" shift just mean the system registers your button presses to shift while coasting and makes the shift when you start pedaling?
It's all cool and that, I love technology and everything to make things better, easier, more reliable, long lasting, etc......but hey, sometimes you need to ask, does it make really a big difference to your riding?...I still have to try it...But the real problem is cost, bicycles are costing more than motorbikes with all that...
...my Shimano drive train already "auto-shifts" ... It's just not always useful having the derailleur shift into a harder gear when you hit a hectic uphill.
Is this why I have never been able to ride up a hill before? Perhaps my brain is different to others? Luckily or perhaps miraculously signals to my thumb seems to be instantaneous making gear changing thoughtless.
It is a sad state of mountain biking when you need to download an app, pair your bike to the phone just to change gear. Bin the BS and just ride a bike. Stop turning a ride in the woods into a 10k+ joke. At what point does this just become electric motorbikes?
So a system for absolutely NooBs who don't know how to bike and neither wanna learn so instead they show off the $$$ they got Why would I want to ride a mountain bike which has a motor and shifts automatically? Makes more sense to just take a car or motorcycle then
Not buying till theres a cigarette lighter
Lol agreed!
Imagine a 12-V socket car cigarette lighter on a bicycle.
That's future!
This comment is an excellent representation of the new crowd e-Mtb’s are bringing to the trails.
How about a cup holder for a beer?
Just puncture the battery.
reminds me of slipper cutches for MX, those who have love it those who dont just have different skills
, cool tech but not for 99%
That Di2 cable to the rear mech looks a bit shoddy....One snag of a branch and.......Ha !!
Next in line: auto-pedaling
lol
Off the subject. Do you ever think pedal power will be introduced to charge the battery?
I wish I had the option of buying free shift for an mtb not just emtb.
Why does my EP8 motors display have the M for manual when that's all there is?
So in which year is this tech going to be ubiquitous on the majority of EMTBs including entry level?
@Anonymous One hopefully eBikes bring in a huge new wave of demand which can help to reduce prices over time but yeah I do find it surprising how similarly priced EMTBs are to motorcycles and besides a few risky Ali Express options there doesn't seem to be any way to get the best tech from 5 years ago for a low price.
Can any EP8 bike be easily upgraded?
Just need to get something to do the steering for me.... come to think of it. Is there something that can do the pedaling for me too?
I suppose that’s one way to sell more cassettes 😅
All they need to do now is to include a jacuzzi and coffee machines in these things and it will be perfect, smh. To be honest, this isn't cycling anymore.
Wtf! 6.08. Why are you in boast going downhill! Save battery for starters and you don't get that over power when on cornering
Another opportunity to pay Shimano hundreds for a repair?
Rubbish tech. All it’s doing is shifting under load which we have been told not to do since bikes were born lol. Shimano are chasing sram and running out of ideas. Until they make wireless it’s game over
A system like that is reactive whereas a good rider is proactive. Good for noobs I guess. The one feature that genuinely looks useful is the ability to shift while keeping the pedals level. This could be handy if you are going downhill through a gnarly section and you know that there is a punchy climb coming up, you could shift down, ready for the climb without having to risk clipping your pedals.
Nailed it
But it reactcts so quick I feel it is really proactive
@@mremtb7689 You can’t use the word “react” and then say it’s proactive. I would shift down before I even got to the climb and you can bet I would avoid crunching the gears like they did in the demo.
This ia all well and good until your Shimano motor gives you the E010, I'd rather Shimano spent some money on developing a reliable motor before trying to sell us a load of tech we don't really need.
Great content thanks!
I can see FreeShift working for me, not sure about AutoShift, I hear a lot of “bad” noises that I normally try to avoid when going uphill. Good to see some R&D progress on drivetrains. 👍
Seriously, Shimano and friends are just treating customers like sht continuing to push derailers and systems based on them. The gearbox/motor combo already exists and is the only future for ebikes but then they wont sell replacement cassets, etc. EMBN know this and have the power to help push them into the market but dont. Lots of vested interests in the industry and its BS.
PS- This auto system is going to eat your drivetrain even faster shifting under load all the time, enjoy buying even more parts from Shimano.
I think this is awesome. ABS, auto shift, give me all the tech! I don’t know if I’d actually use this personally but I love seeing cool new stuff like this.
I think in 10-15 years we will see a lot more ABS on bikes.
so when i manually shift as im climbing i can time it so i take off some pedal pressure. How does this system NOT lead to that horrible gear grinding and destruction of your equipment. I know its more durable, but i cant imagine its good for it when you are pressing hard up a hill and it just shifts anytime it wants. otherwise, sounds really neat.
I was wondering the same thing. I think all this system does is you don't need to press the shifter trigger anymore but the gear change will remain exactly the same as manual shifting.
i hate Autoshift. why is that a thing? i dont want anything to shift on its own. especially off road. freeshift is pretty cool though. you can actually do that on emtbs that have a seperate walk assist button by just pressing that and shifting.
A solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. More expensive more complex and gives bike manufacturers more reason to charge us more money. When I started riding an expensive bike was £1000+. Now it’s more expensive to buy a mtb than a car! Not for me
in what world is it more expensive to buy a mtb than a car??
@@fraser6127 compare cheapest new car with most expensive EMTB perhaps? Or consider that you get a lot more motorcycle for your money compared to high end EMTBs.
@@fraser6127 I recently bought a BMW 1 series to drive around the UK with my bike. It cost 3x *less* than my MTB, and it's not even an electric MTB.
So to answer your question; this world.
@@----.__ what are you comparing? A 15 year old car with 100,000 miles to a brand new top spec mtb? Hardly apples to apples is it. I can buy a old studio flat in the northeast for less than a new BMW 5 series, does that mean cars are more expensive than houses now?
@@fraser6127 _"in what world is it more expensive to buy a mtb than a car??"_
You're the one that posed the question, I simply answered it with a real world example.
To answer your second question, yes. Cars are more expensive than studio flats. I would have thought that was obvious.
Free shift seems useful... the same as a internal geared hub... not sure about Autoshift... and the shifting under load has me concerned... still waiting for a real gearbox and a belt drive system on a mainstream bike...
Why does shifting under load matter? The tension on the chain is on the top between the chain ring and the first few teeth on the sprocket. Where the chain is changing gears from the derailer, there is actually not much tension at all
At some point there will also be an Auto Pedal feature, I mean just go and buy a cross motorbike for what it's worth.
@@ivanramic1428 mx bike still have manual transmissions lmao.
That's going to snap some chains that like . Shifting under such high pressure going through pedals 😜😱
The chain used here is borrowed from buzz light year, and is constructed of terrilium carbonic alloy from sector 18 in the gamma quadrant 😀
It wont snap chains
Idiot-proof tech is not cheap :)
How much?
Forget it!
"Longer component life"? How exactly? Those crackling noises under load indicate quite the opposite.
Very nice but there sounds to be a lot of banging coming from that drive train changing gear under full load, I wonder if we are about to have a chain snapping epidemic 🤔😬
Nice, when no derailleur with real gearbox.
soon
this is what i want. good cheap hub gears.
Gearboxes excite me and I want to try them and I'm excited to see them evolve in the future, but the biggest turn off is the current inability to shift under load, this is the greatest weakness for gearboxes on emtbs when even if you are currently in the right gear to climb, your angle and traction constantly changes on a challenging climb and you're left having to cut power to shift. Sounds extremely complicated to make autoshift work with a gearbox
Valeo has one.. bafang launch at eurobike
That’s hilarious the regular poor person shifting sounded much better then the rich guys auto shift crap. Lololo😅 hilarious
Amazing how tech evolves! I am not able to ride as much as i did due to medical reasons. Looks like this would be a great option for me so i can go back to riding!
Where the need this addresses? More to break, more to pay for, why?
What about timings? The best time to shift a gear is before climbing, insted of do it during uphill 😮
It's a bit rowdy listening to a motor on an e-bike on a ride, listening to the gears crunching away as well might just be a bit too much for me (not that I'd put it on my muscle bikes either) !
Nice, that is awesome, finally I can focus on important stuff like texting, playing a game on my phone or checking the stocks while doing a steep uphill climb or a technical descend!
This is perfect for me. I just broke my right hand, being able to ride with just one hand is what I need
Noisy shifts... but if the chain and cassette are designed to take that extra abuse without shortening their life then it seems like a great idea. Now we just need Shimano and Sram to collaborate and combine linkglide and the new derailleur mounting system into an industry standard... probability wishfull thinking 😂
The new system was designed to withstand shifting under load - they specifically designed the chain and tooth profiles to withstand it, which in turn allows a system like Auto Shift to work.
@@embn But does it hurt Shimao if more chains and cartridges have to be bought because of higher usage? :)
@Electric Mountain Bike Network made to withstand the shifting under load... ok I can understand but that's the same a wrong way to shift gears and only in emergency situations should be done, that fact that is considered "normal" in my opinion is a bad advice.
@@embn uh no. there is much more force involved. even if the chain is somehow hardened it is still shit. you cant change basic physics.
Shimano is the worst for asking question about it, there is not email or phone to talk to them. They send you out to their dealers for it
Gee wiz, do they actually think we need that 🤔 😂
Just learn to ride a bike properly ffs, it's not hard.
I can see Freeshift being a lot more appealing and useful than Autoshift. I don't need or want auto shifting on my emtb.
As long as tech brings new riders to our sport I’m all for it and this seamless. This would be awesome for my spouse or as part of a rental fleet!
🤮
Just like ABS on bicycles, another solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.
Like already mentioned, it just makes MTB's more expensive with tech for the sake of tech.
This is BS... every manufacture tells you NOT to shift under pressure.... Oh well have the improved to cure that???? good for them.
Looks like the point of this is for people who don’t know how to ride bikes/E bikes. I’ll bet many inexperienced riders lugging the bike up hill in the wrong gear in turbo ruining the life span of the motor.
Linear progression is one thing where a semi-smart power ratio dilemma can be solved easily. However, the instantaneous progression over obstacles is quite a different story. If you can have both running simultaneously, using both modes, or all 3-simultaneously. So manual and terrain settings might make it worthwhile. If he said it’s possible, I didn’t hear that.
I don’t ever want auto shift, nope, ebiking is already pushing it. You don’t need it
That looks like it's going to really shorten the life of chains and cassettes by doing all the poor shifting we've been told not to do previously.
Mixing that with sram's t-type system, on the other hand, would be fantastic
Shimano is probably not too sad if you have to buy more spare parts in the future, claiming, that this is just a small "downside" of the huge comfort benefit 😄
What crains will need to be replaced
@@downhill64 "Chains" ......... spell check maybe !
Cassette is all high alloyed case hardened steel now, instead of previously being part aluminium, slightly heavier but that's no drama for the E power.👍🇬🇧
That will last about two hours if your lucky.👎
You MTB guys are getting so soft that soon you will be able to stay in the cafe drinking coffee and just send the bike out to do the track for you and GoPro the ride,instantly sending it to your mobile for your viewing while you are sipping your drink.
I really do not understand why people are so upset about this tech. you must be some old boomer than hates the new generations because "back in your day, you kids had to ride over mountains and trudge through snow storms to get to school"
"Back in my day bikes were single speeds. You struggled up the hill without some fancy high gear to make it easy on your legs. Next you'll tell me they gave you lower ones for speed."
This is how you sound.
Let people enjoy things and be excited about them. Negativity does nothing for the conversation. Grow up and stop gatekeeping bikes.
At what point will mtn bikes break every price point imaginable and price everyone out
I imagine it still has a big impact on your drive train... Shifting early manually should theoretically protect your drive train and prolong its life. Does not sound very good and would actually annoy me.
I can see the autoshift and freeshift being useful, especially on commuter and cargo bike applications. Not sure autoshift is something I would like on an eMTB though. I upgraded my eMTB to SRAM Transmission and shifting under load has been great feature when I shift late. Hoping to see a more robust/waterproof and serviceable Shimano EPxxx series motor in the future. If not here's hoping aftermarket motors designed to fit Shimano motor mounts become a thing. C'mon Bosch, get it done! :-)
Rode a cargo bike Urban Arrow with auto shifting (not shimano) in my past job, it works really smooth, but I miss the sound of my rapid fire shifters. Also when I normally shift I reduce the power I put on the pedals so the chain can go over smoothly, which is pretty much impossible to time right with auto shifting
So it's an automatic bike
That Shimano motor rattling down the trail.... so sad...
Have those mtb boffins invented a 29.5 wheel yet
Hello eMBN, do you know if it will be possible to mount the new Di2 XT 12 speed on bikes with EP8 (DU-EP800)? Of course without Free/Auto shift as DU-EP801 is needed. Thx
At least Di2 XT 11 speed is OK with EP800 - I have driven such bike and it works cool!
How long does the chain and cogs last. I have had 2 sets of clusters and chainring and 4 chains on my turbo levo in 2 years. That's about 10000 km.
I've been looking for a link that has this bike listed with all the auto shift features on it but am unable to find anything with cost or models that have this. Is there a link to this bike and cost. Thank you
same problem for me
Great reason to add 2000 to the price tag 😂 but we will pay it because we love it! Personally i would hold off until an integrated system is achieved, fair play for this system and the research into automation. This would be a respectable decision for any new bike released. There are rumours of a gearbox / integrated unit being developed by Shimano as we speak.
Ok from the sound of it you can tell it eats the material. Thanks for showing us. Now I know I won't switch to such things. Always good that this channel shows us what to avoid ❤❤❤ I like you very much 🎉
yup, the same
It this tech gonna be another few thousand on the ebikes ?
So i think this is great….now if I could only get a hold of a one. That said, the Canyon Spectral CFR has the 12 Speed version, and Im pretty sure you were testing the 11speed system. According to Shimano, the 11 speed cassette is 3x more durable than other cassettes which is key in eMTB. Thoughts?
Go back to the couch.
Cruise control next please Shimano 😅
Motor gearbox combos you would think will be in the works soon. Hey Steve? How much faster in the real world….! On trails. Test 1. Is this something else that needs charged up ? The so called cheap SX/NX on my husky has 400 hard miles on it trouble free so far. Happy Trails.
Nice to see some advancement in the bicycle industry. Ebikes are becoming a very reliable and a viable replacement in the real world. I'm 18k miles on my ebike motor and it's not required any replacement parts yet. Autoshift is used in other vehicles so why not bicycles.
Idk if auto shift is for everyone. You have to be going up some narly climbs to benefit from it. For me im happy with the GX system. When my ship comes in maybe ill be the cool kid on the block.
even then youd not want that. imagine it randomly shifting. thats just asking for problems.
Can the E7000 do Auto shifting? 1. "Compatible with Di2 RD-M8050" "D) Gear shifting mode* 2.Displays current gear shifting mode as [A] (Auto)or [M] (Manual)."
5:08 Autoshift failure. No, it wasn't rider error but a clear demonstration autoshift's inability to anticipate and accommodate upcoming terrain changes.
This seems like a better fit for something like a nuvinci that is infinitely variable under power. The drivetrain crunching is brutal here!
Nicely done. Even though you and the bike handled that abruptly encountered climb, I'm still thinking last minute shifting can't compete with human predicting.
In other words manual shifting would start the climb in the correct gear, where as auto uses part of the climb to understand gradient - risking a failed climb.
Maybe A3 setting: "Siri, I need 2nd gear" LOL
I'm very sad after buying my Cannondale with the Shimano EP8 (EP800) and a few days later the new version of the EP8 (EP801) appeared, I was shocked by the fact that it was not compatible with my bike frame and battery. I understand the industry but it is a lack of respect for consumers, because I'm subject to the EP800 and the BT8036 battery disappearing from the market when they need to be replaced. This is an expensive bike that was difficult for me to buy, and I don't know if next year I still have spare parts for it.
Give your opinion about this complete mess in the market.
Been riding for 25 years - still cannot see how this is even slightly better - AND WHY - compared to a 1995 24-speed LX, for instance. More weight, a battery to charge, 100x times the breaking points - but it's all good because it has an APP. I don't know how to say "keep your head grounded" in Japanese - but someone needs to tell that to Shimano loud and clear. Otherwise the fanboyism of "tech for tech's sake" seems overhyped.
I Thought Part of the Fun of Bike riding was Deciding What Gears to use,But I Suppose You Can Compare This to F1 They Have Not Used a Gear Stick For Years and Call Themselves Professional Racing Drivers So This Tech Will be in the Tour De France Shortly😊
Better if they Stopped Messing About And Spent Some of there Massive Profits and Made a Gearbox in the Motor With a Belt Drive As Chains and Sprockets are a Pain in the - To Keep Cleaning etc
Shifting under load? My SRAM EX1 drivetrain is approaching 5,000 km (Cairngorms use only) and is doing fine with the old Gen 3 CX.... avoiding anything that needs a "smart" phone app and de-skills you as long as possible...
i guess this is for beergarden riders
I want it. The thing with Shimano is they make it so complicated to figure out what you have to buy.
I’m stoked on this new tech, got me thinking of selling my current EMTB and buying this new one.. but I will give it a year for any bugs to be worked out first, until then shred on..
nice piece of tec…but i dont know if those things take it too far so that original riding is even more disappiring😮
90NM from the motor, 500 watts from the legs on full power while shifting, where does the power go ? It either has to go into the rear mech, the chain or the cassette. I really do not see your components lasting longer than a year with this even with mild usage.
Isn't it true that you should not switch gears under load? And the autoshift is doing exactly this. In "manual mode" you shift in advance, control the load and the shifting moment. If you cannot manage your shifting manually, probably you should not be mounting biking. There are a lot more complicated thing going on during the ride, than the shifting. Honestly, I cannot see the future of this and certainly cannot justify the price. But of course, probably they say the same for automatic gearboxes in cars. :)
That's not a bike anymore, that's clearly a motorbike with an automatic gearbox. You climb stuff that would never be possible with human bodies.
I really like e-bike as they allow people to avoid using cars, reduce carbon emissions, practice some activities, etc... but let's not forget there is a motor and a battery inside and these requires lot of resources. They are costly.
To put a battery in an enduro bike and use it like a motorbike to go to place we would never go, that's a waste. It just "adds up" to the resource we are using and wastes we are generating, and does not replace anything.
I hope these technologies will help people access cycling, but if it get too hard, take another route or push your bike...
So Shimano have probably figured out how to see where the crankarms are to shift in the dead spot of the pedal stroke, but...damn, if that isn't shifting in all the places that kill drivetrains. No human would ever choose to bog down in a big gear and then shift to a small one under load...and this is human + motor load. Just like a person who knows how to shift can generally beat an automatic gearbox by anticipating what is coming, the rider who can look ahead and shift *before* they bog down will do much better and break lots less chains and/or cassette teeth. But maybe that's what you get in manual mode.
One other question: does "free" shift just mean the system registers your button presses to shift while coasting and makes the shift when you start pedaling?
It's all cool and that, I love technology and everything to make things better, easier, more reliable, long lasting, etc......but hey, sometimes you need to ask, does it make really a big difference to your riding?...I still have to try it...But the real problem is cost, bicycles are costing more than motorbikes with all that...
...my Shimano drive train already "auto-shifts" ... It's just not always useful having the derailleur shift into a harder gear when you hit a hectic uphill.
I like it .
However the question is how long will the drive train last?
Great content embn
Well he said 300% longer than the hyperglide which is very good
Is this why I have never been able to ride up a hill before? Perhaps my brain is different to others? Luckily or perhaps miraculously signals to my thumb seems to be instantaneous making gear changing thoughtless.
It is a sad state of mountain biking when you need to download an app, pair your bike to the phone just to change gear. Bin the BS and just ride a bike. Stop turning a ride in the woods into a 10k+ joke. At what point does this just become electric motorbikes?
CADENCE ??? If you change your peddling power/speed it auto shifts? Sadly not designed in Germany.
How long until they are self riding?😮
Auto Shift should be called Auto Chain Mash Up - chaining gear while under so much load is not great for your drivetrain, we all know that.
So a system for absolutely NooBs who don't know how to bike and neither wanna learn so instead they show off the $$$ they got
Why would I want to ride a mountain bike which has a motor and shifts automatically? Makes more sense to just take a car or motorcycle then
Miles behind everyone else.... Derailleur gears are dead. They are awful on ebikes. Valeo.. bafang.. gearbox going in the motor...
Expensive and unnecessary.... Maybe good be inexperienced riders or people that don't understand the gearing on mountain bikes.
I could hear the new drive train order being placed as the auto-shift changed gears. Biggest weakness is a human's a greatest strength, prediction.
Pinion need to collab with Bosch,Shimano or Yamaha. To have motor and transmission in one . And to finally get rid of derailleur.
in case you are reading the comments Mr Shimano….we need some 150mm cranks for the EP8 motor ASAP…thank you
Yes more size options with cranks for sure
But prey tell where can you actually buy the auto shift kit from and is it complete or do you factor what you have existing on your bike
To me it’s just become more and more like a dirt bike which a dirt bike is way cheaper.
How can this be "mind blowing" if it does NOT work with 1x12 drivetrains?