Honestly, that's a problem that I have with a lot of the early MCU-adjacent movies. Some of the X-Men movies couldn't resist the urge to make fun of their own origins (jokes about yellow spandex), like they were ashamed of being comic book characters. Eff that. Let's have yellow spandex. Be goofy and colorful and proud of it.
@@BjornTheDim the black suits kinda made sense where the X-Men were trying to stay below the radar in a world largely unaware of mutants, but I hope they don't go that way again in the MCU.
Plus that bit where it's pretty obvious Fury has been not sheltering the aliens so much as exploiting their need for asylum by putting them to work for his own purposes. Looking forward to seeing where its going, but I definitely don't think they put this one very high on their 'let's back it' list
I honestly prefer the idea that the MCU Skrulls aren't all misunderstood virtuous good guys, I've long since tired of the Planet of Hats trope, so having factions and schisms even within a group with complicated motives is only a good thing to me, especially when it calls out the good guys for being complacent. Humans are stupid complicated at the best of times, why shouldn't aliens be stupid complicated at the best of times? Also, I will defend to my last that dumb things should be proud, aware, and unashamed. Yes, I want yellow spandex and dramatic speeches in my dumb superhero movies, what about it.
I thought the not all the Skrulls are a monolith is still a good plot point and idea for Marvel. And I still think the main factor that got them to this refugee status is going to be Galactus eating their planet back in the 90s or late 80s leading to them becoming a scattered civilization and big chunks of them going different directions in the universe. With the faction that meets Captain Marvel ending up in the Earth area.
I’m really hoping there’s a twist at the end that Fury isn’t nearly isn’t in as bad a shape as he looks and that it’s an act put on to lull his enemies into a false sense of security. i half thought mgs4 would go down that route and at the end Snake would pull off the old man mask and be like “haha, the cloning process actually didn’t cause rapid aging.”
"You think they'd promote this a lot harder" I was seeing ads for it all over New York public transit. I don't watch TV, so I don't know if it was there.
Doesn’t having the alien race being as complex as the humans mean you end up with a three way faction where you have the humans that will want to kill all the skrulls, the skrulls that want to kill all the humans and the humans and skrulls working together to coexist?
@@johnathonhaney8291 I liked solouko's comment to begin with, but your critique caused, rather inherently, me to think BIGGER. So...nowwww I'm reminiscing about Deep Space 9 (specifically the Bajor-for-Bajorans group being deceptively manipulated), and how, particularly with the Skrulls involved, you could have the Kill-the-Humans faction pitting the other two factions against one another rather easily and just staying in the shadows, or even SUPPLYING the Kill-the-Aliens people with good OR bad intel/supplies (Oh! Nowwww I reminded myself of ANDOR! 😆😆), depending on how the K-t-Hs want things to play out.
The entire time I was watching Episode 1, I kept getting flashbacks to things like The Lion In Winter and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. At its core, Secret Invasion feels like it's going to be a story about mistakes, regrets and old wounds that refuse to heal. You see that as much with Talos as you do Fury.
I see what you're saying about how this is similar to Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy. This show isn't afraid to let the paranoia simmer while we don't know who to trust. I only saw the pilot like everyone else, but I have a feeling the writers will rely a little too much on explosions to keep things moving
@@megabyte01Not just the paranoia, the pain, which was the OTHER big part of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Specifically, the pain of realizing you never had a firm grasp on what was really going on.
After watching one episode, I kept wondering why the Skrulls feel the need to remain hidden to this level anymore. New Asgard has demonstrated that there is at least some tolerance out there for Alien refugees on Earth, and that can make radicalization difficult.
3:43 I admit I'm far behind on Marvel stuff, but the last one I've seen to completion was WandaVision and I don't remember a Skrull there at all. Where was it?
In “Behind the Bastards” Robert Evans reads several AI generated children’s books and they were unreadable trash. I don’t think actual writers have to worry about their jobs being replaced any time soon.
I give about six days before the reactionary sphere of Twitter decides this is what Marvel should have been all along. And then by the conclusion they'll be crying like they were over the Boys.
I guess it was either this or try to squeeze in the Infinity Serum and Man on the Wall plot points in last minute. After Thanos wiped half the universe and try to explain either how Fury missed that or what could have possibly been bigger than that to distract Fury enough to let Thanos win.
I know some people are a bit bent out of shape about the Skrulls are now terrorists', but I think it makes perfect sense. In universe, it's been 30 years. It makes sense that the Skrulls would be tired of waiting. Also, notice how the revolutionaries are all the young Skrulls? The older Skrulls, like Talos, are trying to avert them nuking everything. Thinking about it logically, it makes sense that the 30 year old Skrulls would be more disillusioned and more likely to resort to extreme measures. Notice that all of our good guys are all older? Hill, Fury, and Talos represent the old guard trying to keep the young bucks from destroying everything.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it" I agree, and 'dumb' is probably the most humorous way to put it, but for the people in the setting that stuff is just every day life. It's completely believable. Look at how much dumb things have wound their way into our language in real life. If you went back fifty years ago and started talking about Cookies and Apple and Google and Yahoo, people would have no idea you were talking about computers and just think you were some kind of idiot.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it." You just summed up the entire Fast and Furious franchise. My Disney+ only showed the first episode and my best friends is angry about that ending, and yet you indicate there's another thing coming. That should be fun. Didn't notice the art was AI generated, and missed the legion of bitch about Marvel TH-camrs and Twitch Streamers. Guess I'm getting to old to keep up with those guys. Not to mention this endless parade of "find something to explain why Marvel is failing" creeps are so exhausting. Good review.
Even how Marvel Films loves to grab weird comics stuff and run with it (Guardians of the Galaxies anyone), I wouldn't be surprised if the "Evil Skrulls" turn out to be the MCU version of the Dire Wraiths. They're an evil, magical, Skrull sub-race that was introduced in the ROM Space Knight toy-tie comic. Interestingly, the climax of ROM's story happened at the same time as the Secret War's event comic, which let ROM and other lesser known characters play large roles in a world scale climax while most of the well-known heroes were fighting in the Secret War. While ROM himself is not under license to Marvel anymore, the rest of the stuff in the comic was created by Marvel, so the Dire Wraiths are fair game.
Episode 2 was quite the step up from 1; Maybe they should have combined them. The "terminal data" was something I've been wondering about for awhile; "Not them but those, ok". The end of 2 was a deconstruction/inversion of one of the main plotpoints of Secret Invasion.... I don't know how I feel about it yet. HOWEVER, the point in episode 2 where Fury forced them to conFORM was horrifying. It came off more like "What if Samuel L Jackson was Willy Wonka" sort of thing. That's not going to age well. "Why can't green alien refugees be green alien refugees?" Making it a Secret makes YOU the bad guy... Oh. [thinks of the ending] OH. Mutherfu. END
I also agree that "Dumb Things Should Be Dumb And Proud Of It." Or as Bob observed in his "Really That Good" on the original ID4, "...Smile, dammit. It's a movie, not a funeral." If you're taking goofy sci-fi/fairy-tale nonsense seriously, You're Doing It Wrong.
I knew what they were doing with the opening credits and thought it was clever and the correct use of that tool...and tone deaf and should have been thrown out the moment the Writer's Strike started looming. I like where this seems to be going so far; but I feel there is a missed opportunity here. Instead of going with the Skulls, I would have had the 1998 David Hasselhoff version of Nick Fury come in from another Earth and use LMDs (Life Model Decoys) as part of a plot to steal this Earth because of something happening on his that is going to destroy it (or some resource that would help save his and ultimately destroy ours.) They better end this series with Skrulls turned into cows.
I note how Bob called the "Secret Invasion" storyline, "the first time in a while Marvel had done anything with the Skrulls", but I would go even further than THAT by paraphrasing his take as "the first time...well, EVER...that Marvel had done anything with the Skrulls that was actually INTERESTING". Because despite the Skrulls' grandiose pronouncements that, like their "mortal enemies", the Kree, they're this species bred for war and conquest, if you look back over the comics, you quickly realize that, historically...they've NEVER actually been any GOOD at that. They were only ever just BARELY competent, as a military force, and anytime they showed up, they were really little more than simple comic relief. Essentially, for the longest time, they were seen as the Ferengi of the Marvel Universe, with only their technology making them, in ANY way, formidable. Which is why it was such a jarring tonal shift when "Secret Invasion" came along and turned that whole perception on its head. That's actually why I preferred the MCU take on the Skrulls that Captain Marvel introduced, because it played more with their track record in the comics. Of course, they're not conquerors or any kind of professionally-trained military. They're just this ragtag band of displaced refugees who are only trying their damnedest to keep from getting completely wiped out. At least...that's just MY take on it.
Up till now, I thought the "good" Skrulls we've seen in the movies and streaming series were themselves exiles from Empire run by the "bad" Skrulls: religious fanatics who believe it's their divine destiny to conquer the universe. At least that's what I remember about them from the comics.
@@louisduarte8763 Maybe, but what I remember about the Skrulls from the comics actually ties in more with Bob's analysis of Nazi Germany in his Big Picture video, "Don't Be a Stupid, Be a Smarty"..."how the Third Reich was actually NOT all that efficient, or well-managed, or strategically competent, or even battlefield tough, but were mostly good at LOOKING the part for a while".
@@TuxedAaron And to expand on that, just because they believed they had the goal and self-deluded destiny of universal domination didn't mean they had the ABILITY for it. I think that's why they used shapeshifting, infiltration, and destabilization from within because, unlike the Kree (or maybe Shi-Ar?), they couldn't take on anyone in a straight fight.
"Current Avengers and 70s Avengers have a big brawl in the jungle that lasts for 5 episodes" probably isn't that great a concept for a TV show. Or a comic for that matter.
And here I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, the announcement that they could reissue the old ROM comics meant they were gonna replace the Skrulls with Dire Wraiths, since they also had shapeshifting powers
I watched the first episode, and... like.. what? The skrulls need some bombs so they get money to go buy some bombs from a special bomb maker/art dealer. But... that guy is a skrull? so the skrulls payed a skrull for a bomb? how does that track?
Let's face it, the original comic was crap (Bendis' writing has been a dumpster fire for a while) a more down to earth spy thriller, with minimal superhero action, is exactly what this show needed to be (regardless of the final quality of the show)
I’m enjoying it so far. I definitely agree with you on the pleasure of seeing goofy comic stuff merged in with a slicker more serious genre. The ai thing while not good is just part the culture war where Disney is an acceptable target while Amazon and Warner bros are not for some reason.
We BOTH know the reason, surely. And the intro sequence tells me that the current state of AI tech will never do what lazy execs want. Nor will they be motivated enough to sink the necessary R&D money to improve it.
You can't stop content scraping. If it's visible to you, it's visible to a bot. All you can do is slow it down by limiting requests at the server level.
We're going back to the well of "abused people tired of waiting for change, decide to try violent action, and they're the villains"? I mean, okay, but I've got my doubts that Disney can do this sensitively, especially considering their prior attempts
@@Nanook128Very true and good on you for figuring that out. But he still caused a lot of malicious harm when the pain got too much to bear. Understanding someone's actions and condoning them are two separate silos.
I absolutely plan to watch this, but I can't do it week to week. The stress and paranoia and fear of not knowing who to trust is already driving me crazy, so I'm just gonna binge it when it's done.
Personally, I don't understand the point of releasing streaming shows on a one-a-week schedule as if streaming was TV. Let us binge the thing we all know is already finished!
@Iceykitsune I mean, Disney don't care about that. Disney care that releasing the epsidoes one by one stretches out your subscription and makes them more money.
... But if the show is a paranoid thriller, surely the fact it is making you question who to trust is the whole point? Why would you want to take that away? It's like saying you want a horror movie with no scares.
Hard not to, isn't it? If you do like that sort of storytelling, may I suggest also seeing the most recent version of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy with Gary Oldman? Very much in the same vein.
I just watched the second episode, and it was okay. Nothing happened much other than Fury and Talos spouting exposition at each other, the old British lady torturing a Skrull for information, and Gravik taking over the Skrull Council. I still think making the tensions between America and Russia intentionally controlled by alien invaders is insensitive given the latter is the one driving hostilities by pulling a September 1939 on its neighbor.
Rather than using AI bs if they wanted to convey a fake thing standing in or imitating a real thing they could have used mannequins that look like the actors. The human brain would have filled in all the other uncanny valley necessities for this. It also would have been way more powerful
@@PersephoneDarling28 hard disagree. AI is trash and ugly useless stolen labor. Doing something intentionally would have been best rather than some trash farted out by a computer
It feels that Skrulls are the villains here after Captain Marvel established that they're good guys, or at the very least unjustly persecuted... I suppose this is a case of #NotAllSkrulls but still, kind of hampers the messaging of that movie with this.
I mean, it’s fine so far, I’ve only seen the first episode. Really feels like an Agents of SHIELD premise without all the characters from that show I liked. I’m a little bummed out because it doesn’t seem like there’s gonna be any actual superheroes in this show, given the concept it also seems like it could’ve been some thing done as a running theme throughout an entire phase. But now it’s going to be all fixed by the end of this miniseries. For the record, I think, making the Skrulls good guys was one of the dumber things marvel signed off on. They are a classic villain that’s never been properly given their due so one of the lower, ranked marvel movies could give us a lecture on xenophobia, something we could’ve easily done with one of the dozens of other alien species in the Marvel comics. It also makes the good Skrulls less impactful now. These were characters who overcame there warlike nature to fight with the good guys. We don’t have HYDRA anymore, and I was hoping they could be set up as the next ever present villain
"Really feels like an Agents of SHIELD premise without all the characters from that show I liked." That pretty much describes every MCU TV show on Disney+. AoS remains a hard act to follow.
I really see where director was coming from with the AI art intro but yeah it really was a bad call. Especially with all the grumbling about how badly Disney has been treating it's CGI artists and the absolutely shitty attitude that the tech-bro has on plowing creatives who they seem to have a real thing against. Absolutely shitty. That said, this series sounds fun. I hope Disney learns a lesson and doesn't do this again and yeah I hope all the AI art theft in general gets legally broken over the leg of the usually crazy litigious copyright holders. I'm shocked there hasn't been much talk about that (from what I've heard)
I think it's a clever subversion of the Captain Marvel twist without undermining the twist itself. And if the ultimate reason is just "inaction on crisis radicalized a large group of refugees" then it will be a much better message to people in power than FatWS's "just do better" message.
The most damning thing I can say about this, as someone who has been MCU ride or die since before the damn thing even existed-- I was so bored by this I turned it off halfway into the first episode; but not before skipping to the end and going "huh." And I really wanted a good Nick Fury show, but this just isn't selling. I love Marvel and I'm sure they're doing this or that behind the scenes for the X-Men and Fantastic Four, but right now they're the dominant superhero brand by default and not by merit.
@@Carabas72 k. I turned it off halfway because I was bored as shit. Benefit of Marvel being 100 miles wide at this point-- not every product has to be for everyone lest you not support "the brand" properly. I don't think it's particularly well-made otherwise. Marvel's style was due to evolve 4 years ago and now it's getting ridiculous. Their writers are largely trash.
I thought the first episode was pretty good, bringing back the slow political thriller angle we haven't seen in an MCU property in a long time and helping create context even for people who haven't watched Captain Marvel. The only problems I noticed were how predictable Everett Ross' reveal was (I knew as soon as the other guy was telling him about the Skrull conspiracy that he was a Skrull himself) and the setting. I'm sure the script was written before the invasion of Ukraine, but the filming definitely wasn't. Don't construe Russia as a peaceful country being dragged into conflict by aliens infiltrating the government. You're giving Putin and his cronies positive press.
Ok putting aside the AI issues, this first episode was alright. Not my favorite MCU Disney+ premiere, but I’m intrigued to see where it goes next. Though it we’re honest: Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Season 2 is the standard this show will be judged against. Not the original comic.
The opening monologue about fake news and not knowing who to trust, in Moscow. How timely. I would not have known the opening title sequence is AI generated if someone didn't say it. That might have been my first time watching AI-driven animation EVER. After the bit with Ross (if you watched the 1st episode already, you know what I mean), I wonder who else was replaced with a Skrull, and if Marvel will use "they were a Skrull all along!" as plot-hole cement. Like after Wakanda Forever.
I know I'm in the minority but I prefer the kree and skrulls from one of the older avengers cartoons. Neither were good and that was fine. They were at war and neither were on our side viewing earth as just a key strategic territory both wanted to possess to aid them in their war effort. I think that would have made for a great underlying narrative post infinity war. We've dealt with saving half of all existence now let's chill out a little and get involved in a war that predates human existence and fight for earth's independence and be the centrists looking to bring peace to the blue space people and the green space people. Secret War could have been the next big avengers movie to bring everyone together to defend against the invading kree while at the same time weeding out the skrulls who already infiltrated our world and tricked our heroes to fight for them under the guise of the kree being the only threat. You could still have had the message about how we treat refugees by having some skrulls and kree defect to our side having fallen in love with our way of life and the people they interacted with or just tired of eons of war and want to know peace. Oh what could have been...
It's marvel, so it'll be cool enough. But, and this may be just my fanboy thing. I so want a Beyonder level Marvel/SW/Disney blowout movie. Just a huge OTT planet based fight between the universes. Oh well.
I've watched both episodes now an quite honestly, I find it boring an uninspired. Feels more lieka Cold War spy story than an alien invasion story and that's probably intentional and alien invsaion stories have often been metaphors for the fear of a communist takeover but here that's even more emphasized by the Skrulls being based in Russia and that's a bit too on the nose for my taste. That said, both episodes had killer cliffhanger endings and it's MCU so I'll keep watching anyway...
Not that it would help our xenophobia problem any, but I was hoping Secret Invasion's bad Skrulls would turn out to be a cult of Fin Fang Foom worshippers (because green shapeshifters), and this would be a way to make Captain Marvel and Shang-Chi relevant again, maybe tying Khamala's bangle and the Ten Rings together as a new set of MacGuffins being used to keep the eldritch horrors like Dweller, Nightmare, Dormammu, and MEPHISTO from exploiting Incursions to invade the lower dimensions. I mean, it's the perfect opportunity and timing to make the subversive joke that it *isn't* always Kang behind everything, make sense of the last three years of content, and "cleanly" pivot to a new focus without becoming their biggest imitator.
Episode 1 was a whole lot of OH MY GOODNESS WHAT THE ACTUAL...?! and has me well hooked. Well, for now, anyway. But, we've been hearing about this a long while now, so I'm not sure how it slipped under your radar, Bob. Glad you like it too, though; means we're all on the same page. At least I hope it does... and you're not - you know - a Skrull, or something.
Slick, yes. Entertaining? Ummm . . . about that: Yes, there are likeable elements but sometimes they come across as a little too cookie-cutter to really become interesting. Yes, Ben Mendelsohn shows that he's capable of really terrific acting but will he be allowed to do more than just punch narrative buttons? Samuel L. Jackson actually gets to do something I've never seen him do before: be old and tired. And there is a huge elephant in the room but will this show acknowledge it: UKRAINE. I'm sorry but this show makes Moscow look better than I can believe right now. That seriously undercuts my suspension of disbelief. Normally I would give a show like this a chance to develop into something that could hold my interest, but too much of this show is just too rote and by-the-numbers to really hook me in. And I say that as someone who was invested in "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." from the very first episode all the way to the very end. And that makes me sad.
Moviebob has turned into an HR meeting aobut your problematic coffee cup, that says "I hate Mondays", "have you considered the feelings of people who actually like Mondays?"
I’m starting to think James Gunn was the secret sauce all along and ever since they fired him, marvel is having dceu problems, while dc is now starting to get their shit together since he’s been on their team.
No, they're not. They're having post-COVID problems, as Mr. Chipman keeps trying to tell you. And with a cruel, lying POS like David Zaslav as a boss, I have no faith Gunn will be allowed to succeed.
I am somewhat unhappy about the way they take it. Because it very much does seem to be goin into the direction of "refugees and immirgrants are bad actually"
Honestly it doesn't surprise me that moviebob is simpinig for copyright; he's definitively the kind of person who doesn't care the damage indie artists would suffer is the AI art lawsuits win (seriously, fuck copyright, intellectual property is an aberration)
Given how many copyright strikes Zaslav's goons have handed down to him over publicly available footage in recent times? I imagine our Mr. Chipman is a bit more jaded than you on the subject. Also, the AI sequence was so ugly, it only proves that lazy execs will never get from it what they want at this level.
@@johnathonhaney8291 is he? He literally supported a position that would nuke his channel into oblivion; seriously it bothers me how many independent artists are calling for copyright maximalism that wouldn't deter AI much, but would enable corporations to crackdown on small creators. AI models can be trained with AI output, but restricting what works can be used freely exposes artists, specially fan artists, to copyright takedown. Also the AI sequence was fine, I don't know why people call it ugly; it wasn't the most impressive sequence I've seen, but it had that style that's particular to AI art
But Bob, if these spoiled brat writers continue to write below sub par crap, and the corporations run out of money, then what? Do you want the companies to go broke? Apparently, you don't seem to care because 'muh writers, muh product to consume. Economic feasibility, and quality writing be damned.
At first I thought your comment was satire, but you seem to have played it pretty straight. If satire, slow clap. If not, slow head shake and ask why when you are oliver twist do you route for the master?
I never found the story in the comics terribly interesting, and between the AI credits and yet another woman in the fridge, I'll be skipping this one. I'll just read the wikis to get caught up if it impacts anything in Kamala's movie in November.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it" might be my favourite Bob Chipman quote ever 😊
5:21
That’s basically Bob in a nutshell
See: Godzilla, King of the Monsters
Honestly, that's a problem that I have with a lot of the early MCU-adjacent movies. Some of the X-Men movies couldn't resist the urge to make fun of their own origins (jokes about yellow spandex), like they were ashamed of being comic book characters.
Eff that. Let's have yellow spandex. Be goofy and colorful and proud of it.
@@BjornTheDim the black suits kinda made sense where the X-Men were trying to stay below the radar in a world largely unaware of mutants, but I hope they don't go that way again in the MCU.
Plus that bit where it's pretty obvious Fury has been not sheltering the aliens so much as exploiting their need for asylum by putting them to work for his own purposes.
Looking forward to seeing where its going, but I definitely don't think they put this one very high on their 'let's back it' list
I honestly prefer the idea that the MCU Skrulls aren't all misunderstood virtuous good guys, I've long since tired of the Planet of Hats trope, so having factions and schisms even within a group with complicated motives is only a good thing to me, especially when it calls out the good guys for being complacent. Humans are stupid complicated at the best of times, why shouldn't aliens be stupid complicated at the best of times?
Also, I will defend to my last that dumb things should be proud, aware, and unashamed. Yes, I want yellow spandex and dramatic speeches in my dumb superhero movies, what about it.
Thank you!
I thought the not all the Skrulls are a monolith is still a good plot point and idea for Marvel. And I still think the main factor that got them to this refugee status is going to be Galactus eating their planet back in the 90s or late 80s leading to them becoming a scattered civilization and big chunks of them going different directions in the universe. With the faction that meets Captain Marvel ending up in the Earth area.
I’m really hoping there’s a twist at the end that Fury isn’t nearly isn’t in as bad a shape as he looks and that it’s an act put on to lull his enemies into a false sense of security.
i half thought mgs4 would go down that route and at the end Snake would pull off the old man mask and be like “haha, the cloning process actually didn’t cause rapid aging.”
"You think they'd promote this a lot harder" I was seeing ads for it all over New York public transit. I don't watch TV, so I don't know if it was there.
Doesn’t having the alien race being as complex as the humans mean you end up with a three way faction where you have the humans that will want to kill all the skrulls, the skrulls that want to kill all the humans and the humans and skrulls working together to coexist?
Respectfully, you're thinking too small.
and the entire spectrums in between, pretty much.
Yes. Which is more interesting than just Good Guys and Bad Guys.
It _is_ still a Hollywood production. No reason to think otherwise.
@@johnathonhaney8291 I liked solouko's comment to begin with, but your critique caused, rather inherently, me to think BIGGER. So...nowwww I'm reminiscing about Deep Space 9 (specifically the Bajor-for-Bajorans group being deceptively manipulated), and how, particularly with the Skrulls involved, you could have the Kill-the-Humans faction pitting the other two factions against one another rather easily and just staying in the shadows, or even SUPPLYING the Kill-the-Aliens people with good OR bad intel/supplies (Oh! Nowwww I reminded myself of ANDOR! 😆😆), depending on how the K-t-Hs want things to play out.
The entire time I was watching Episode 1, I kept getting flashbacks to things like The Lion In Winter and Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. At its core, Secret Invasion feels like it's going to be a story about mistakes, regrets and old wounds that refuse to heal. You see that as much with Talos as you do Fury.
I see what you're saying about how this is similar to Tinker Tailer Soldier Spy. This show isn't afraid to let the paranoia simmer while we don't know who to trust.
I only saw the pilot like everyone else, but I have a feeling the writers will rely a little too much on explosions to keep things moving
@@megabyte01Not just the paranoia, the pain, which was the OTHER big part of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. Specifically, the pain of realizing you never had a firm grasp on what was really going on.
After watching one episode, I kept wondering why the Skrulls feel the need to remain hidden to this level anymore. New Asgard has demonstrated that there is at least some tolerance out there for Alien refugees on Earth, and that can make radicalization difficult.
The Asgardians look exactly like humans so they probably fit in better.
I personally cannot wait for the Professor Wombat solo movie.
3:43 I admit I'm far behind on Marvel stuff, but the last one I've seen to completion was WandaVision and I don't remember a Skrull there at all. Where was it?
Mid-credits of the finale. A Skrull operative contacted Monica and invited her to join SABER
I can't believe MovieBob was a Skrull the whole time!
Professor Wombat!
In “Behind the Bastards” Robert Evans reads several AI generated children’s books and they were unreadable trash. I don’t think actual writers have to worry about their jobs being replaced any time soon.
I give about six days before the reactionary sphere of Twitter decides this is what Marvel should have been all along. And then by the conclusion they'll be crying like they were over the Boys.
I guess it was either this or try to squeeze in the Infinity Serum and Man on the Wall plot points in last minute.
After Thanos wiped half the universe and try to explain either how Fury missed that or what could have possibly been bigger than that to distract Fury enough to let Thanos win.
I know some people are a bit bent out of shape about the Skrulls are now terrorists', but I think it makes perfect sense. In universe, it's been 30 years. It makes sense that the Skrulls would be tired of waiting.
Also, notice how the revolutionaries are all the young Skrulls? The older Skrulls, like Talos, are trying to avert them nuking everything.
Thinking about it logically, it makes sense that the 30 year old Skrulls would be more disillusioned and more likely to resort to extreme measures.
Notice that all of our good guys are all older? Hill, Fury, and Talos represent the old guard trying to keep the young bucks from destroying everything.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it"
I agree, and 'dumb' is probably the most humorous way to put it, but for the people in the setting that stuff is just every day life. It's completely believable. Look at how much dumb things have wound their way into our language in real life. If you went back fifty years ago and started talking about Cookies and Apple and Google and Yahoo, people would have no idea you were talking about computers and just think you were some kind of idiot.
If you didn’t laugh at the random shout of PROFESSOR WOMBAT then I don’t know what to tell you.
"Professor wombat" had me absolutelly cackling
Glad I saw this ahead of firing up the episode. Thanks for the warning about the premise.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it." You just summed up the entire Fast and Furious franchise. My Disney+ only showed the first episode and my best friends is angry about that ending, and yet you indicate there's another thing coming. That should be fun. Didn't notice the art was AI generated, and missed the legion of bitch about Marvel TH-camrs and Twitch Streamers. Guess I'm getting to old to keep up with those guys. Not to mention this endless parade of "find something to explain why Marvel is failing" creeps are so exhausting. Good review.
Even how Marvel Films loves to grab weird comics stuff and run with it (Guardians of the Galaxies anyone), I wouldn't be surprised if the "Evil Skrulls" turn out to be the MCU version of the Dire Wraiths. They're an evil, magical, Skrull sub-race that was introduced in the ROM Space Knight toy-tie comic. Interestingly, the climax of ROM's story happened at the same time as the Secret War's event comic, which let ROM and other lesser known characters play large roles in a world scale climax while most of the well-known heroes were fighting in the Secret War. While ROM himself is not under license to Marvel anymore, the rest of the stuff in the comic was created by Marvel, so the Dire Wraiths are fair game.
review starts at 3:30
My issue is so far they've taken nearly whole cloth the plot of that Peter Capaldi Zygon story from Doctor who
Great, now you have me imagining Samuel L. Jackson giving the speech about revolutions and wars to Emilia Clarke. And totally killing it.
Finally, I watched the second episode.
Episode 2 was quite the step up from 1; Maybe they should have combined them. The "terminal data" was something I've been wondering about for awhile; "Not them but those, ok".
The end of 2 was a deconstruction/inversion of one of the main plotpoints of Secret Invasion.... I don't know how I feel about it yet.
HOWEVER, the point in episode 2 where Fury forced them to conFORM was horrifying. It came off more like "What if Samuel L Jackson was Willy Wonka" sort of thing. That's not going to age well.
"Why can't green alien refugees be green alien refugees?" Making it a Secret makes YOU the bad guy... Oh. [thinks of the ending] OH.
Mutherfu. END
I'm calling it right now, Gravik is the half Skrull son of Nick Fury!
Trust in the Bob!!!
I also agree that "Dumb Things Should Be Dumb And Proud Of It." Or as Bob observed in his "Really That Good" on the original ID4, "...Smile, dammit. It's a movie, not a funeral."
If you're taking goofy sci-fi/fairy-tale nonsense seriously, You're Doing It Wrong.
ID4?
@@einootspork "Independence Day." We abbreviated it "ID4" for some reason... the "4" referring to the 4th Of July.
@@thetribunaloftheimaginatio5247
In fairness, it seems only folks who were around for the original release remember that abbreviation.
@@johnathonhaney8291 Fair enough. I was a teenager in the summer of 1996.
I knew what they were doing with the opening credits and thought it was clever and the correct use of that tool...and tone deaf and should have been thrown out the moment the Writer's Strike started looming.
I like where this seems to be going so far; but I feel there is a missed opportunity here. Instead of going with the Skulls, I would have had the 1998 David Hasselhoff version of Nick Fury come in from another Earth and use LMDs (Life Model Decoys) as part of a plot to steal this Earth because of something happening on his that is going to destroy it (or some resource that would help save his and ultimately destroy ours.)
They better end this series with Skrulls turned into cows.
I note how Bob called the "Secret Invasion" storyline, "the first time in a while Marvel had done anything with the Skrulls", but I would go even further than THAT by paraphrasing his take as "the first time...well, EVER...that Marvel had done anything with the Skrulls that was actually INTERESTING". Because despite the Skrulls' grandiose pronouncements that, like their "mortal enemies", the Kree, they're this species bred for war and conquest, if you look back over the comics, you quickly realize that, historically...they've NEVER actually been any GOOD at that. They were only ever just BARELY competent, as a military force, and anytime they showed up, they were really little more than simple comic relief. Essentially, for the longest time, they were seen as the Ferengi of the Marvel Universe, with only their technology making them, in ANY way, formidable. Which is why it was such a jarring tonal shift when "Secret Invasion" came along and turned that whole perception on its head.
That's actually why I preferred the MCU take on the Skrulls that Captain Marvel introduced, because it played more with their track record in the comics. Of course, they're not conquerors or any kind of professionally-trained military. They're just this ragtag band of displaced refugees who are only trying their damnedest to keep from getting completely wiped out.
At least...that's just MY take on it.
Up till now, I thought the "good" Skrulls we've seen in the movies and streaming series were themselves exiles from Empire run by the "bad" Skrulls: religious fanatics who believe it's their divine destiny to conquer the universe. At least that's what I remember about them from the comics.
@@louisduarte8763 Maybe, but what I remember about the Skrulls from the comics actually ties in more with Bob's analysis of Nazi Germany in his Big Picture video, "Don't Be a Stupid, Be a Smarty"..."how the Third Reich was actually NOT all that efficient, or well-managed, or strategically competent, or even battlefield tough, but were mostly good at LOOKING the part for a while".
@@TuxedAaron And to expand on that, just because they believed they had the goal and self-deluded destiny of universal domination didn't mean they had the ABILITY for it. I think that's why they used shapeshifting, infiltration, and destabilization from within because, unlike the Kree (or maybe Shi-Ar?), they couldn't take on anyone in a straight fight.
@@louisduarte8763 Well, that's a fair analysis...pressing any advantage they could, I suppose.
It's probably going to be completely different from the comics but I think this is interesting enough on its own to see how things go.
"Current Avengers and 70s Avengers have a big brawl in the jungle that lasts for 5 episodes" probably isn't that great a concept for a TV show. Or a comic for that matter.
@@Carabas72 Hence why the idea worked better in Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
My least favourite part was the opening credits so it’s interesting to learn there’s controversy around it.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it."
Hell. Yes.
glad to hear Bob's take on this
I'm engaging because nobody knows a better way to get the recommendation algorithm to work.
Winter Soldier was my favorite MCU movie, so I’m already in. I’ll catch up with it after episode 5.
And here I was hoping that maybe, just maybe, the announcement that they could reissue the old ROM comics meant they were gonna replace the Skrulls with Dire Wraiths, since they also had shapeshifting powers
I didn't read the Secret invasion event (not a flex, I just missed it because of circumstances), so I'm going into this blind.
You didn't miss much. The actual event series would have been more aptly titled: "Damn Obvious Assault"
@@legomaniac213 okay. Hey, I wonder if they'll put in a Teddy cameo.
I watched the first episode, and... like.. what? The skrulls need some bombs so they get money to go buy some bombs from a special bomb maker/art dealer. But... that guy is a skrull? so the skrulls payed a skrull for a bomb? how does that track?
What's weird about it? Would you be confused if humans were buying things from other humans?
Nobody mention the zygon invasion/inversion. ;)
Let's face it, the original comic was crap (Bendis' writing has been a dumpster fire for a while)
a more down to earth spy thriller, with minimal superhero action, is exactly what this show needed to be (regardless of the final quality of the show)
1:17 - 1:30 Oh boy 😬😬
1:56 - 2:54 Well said 🫢🙏
I’m enjoying it so far. I definitely agree with you on the pleasure of seeing goofy comic stuff merged in with a slicker more serious genre. The ai thing while not good is just part the culture war where Disney is an acceptable target while Amazon and Warner bros are not for some reason.
We BOTH know the reason, surely. And the intro sequence tells me that the current state of AI tech will never do what lazy execs want. Nor will they be motivated enough to sink the necessary R&D money to improve it.
You can't stop content scraping. If it's visible to you, it's visible to a bot. All you can do is slow it down by limiting requests at the server level.
We're going back to the well of "abused people tired of waiting for change, decide to try violent action, and they're the villains"? I mean, okay, but I've got my doubts that Disney can do this sensitively, especially considering their prior attempts
It's a valid approach, going back to at least Frankenstein's monster. One need not look too far or deep in the real world for parallels either.
@@johnathonhaney8291 the monster wasn't the villain though
@@Nanook128Very true and good on you for figuring that out. But he still caused a lot of malicious harm when the pain got too much to bear. Understanding someone's actions and condoning them are two separate silos.
they do it well all the time
@@Nanook128Yeah he was. The doctor was too
@7:45 Was that...was that a Power Rangers reference? I'm gonna pretend it was.
I absolutely plan to watch this, but I can't do it week to week. The stress and paranoia and fear of not knowing who to trust is already driving me crazy, so I'm just gonna binge it when it's done.
Personally, I don't understand the point of releasing streaming shows on a one-a-week schedule as if streaming was TV. Let us binge the thing we all know is already finished!
@@jimballard1186 Because dumping it all at once prevents a real community from forming.
I honestly wouldn't bother waiting. It's not that good.
@Iceykitsune I mean, Disney don't care about that.
Disney care that releasing the epsidoes one by one stretches out your subscription and makes them more money.
... But if the show is a paranoid thriller, surely the fact it is making you question who to trust is the whole point? Why would you want to take that away? It's like saying you want a horror movie with no scares.
Same. Ep1 slow but interesting, will stick with it. As someone who is now older than I used to be I identify with some of the themes here,
Hard not to, isn't it? If you do like that sort of storytelling, may I suggest also seeing the most recent version of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy with Gary Oldman? Very much in the same vein.
I just watched the second episode, and it was okay. Nothing happened much other than Fury and Talos spouting exposition at each other, the old British lady torturing a Skrull for information, and Gravik taking over the Skrull Council. I still think making the tensions between America and Russia intentionally controlled by alien invaders is insensitive given the latter is the one driving hostilities by pulling a September 1939 on its neighbor.
I feel like we are two episodes of seeing #notallskrulls trending.
Rather than using AI bs if they wanted to convey a fake thing standing in or imitating a real thing they could have used mannequins that look like the actors. The human brain would have filled in all the other uncanny valley necessities for this. It also would have been way more powerful
Nah, the AI is fully uncanny it's the best way to do it
@@PersephoneDarling28 hard disagree. AI is trash and ugly useless stolen labor. Doing something intentionally would have been best rather than some trash farted out by a computer
I find it funny that the Mother of Dragons won't do another SW project but ends up in Marvel
Far better than another GOT project, yes?
So this is just The Zygon Inversion then?
It feels that Skrulls are the villains here after Captain Marvel established that they're good guys, or at the very least unjustly persecuted... I suppose this is a case of #NotAllSkrulls but still, kind of hampers the messaging of that movie with this.
I mean, it’s fine so far, I’ve only seen the first episode. Really feels like an Agents of SHIELD premise without all the characters from that show I liked.
I’m a little bummed out because it doesn’t seem like there’s gonna be any actual superheroes in this show, given the concept it also seems like it could’ve been some thing done as a running theme throughout an entire phase. But now it’s going to be all fixed by the end of this miniseries.
For the record, I think, making the Skrulls good guys was one of the dumber things marvel signed off on. They are a classic villain that’s never been properly given their due so one of the lower, ranked marvel movies could give us a lecture on xenophobia, something we could’ve easily done with one of the dozens of other alien species in the Marvel comics. It also makes the good Skrulls less impactful now. These were characters who overcame there warlike nature to fight with the good guys. We don’t have HYDRA anymore, and I was hoping they could be set up as the next ever present villain
AFAIK, A.I.M. only lasted 1 movie, and I don't know what Marvel will do with The Ten Rings. The Kree Empire's still out there. Aren't they?
"Really feels like an Agents of SHIELD premise without all the characters from that show I liked." That pretty much describes every MCU TV show on Disney+. AoS remains a hard act to follow.
How are you reviewing episode two when episode one just dropped?
He told us that at the top...presser release for reviewers.
I really see where director was coming from with the AI art intro but yeah it really was a bad call. Especially with all the grumbling about how badly Disney has been treating it's CGI artists and the absolutely shitty attitude that the tech-bro has on plowing creatives who they seem to have a real thing against. Absolutely shitty. That said, this series sounds fun. I hope Disney learns a lesson and doesn't do this again and yeah I hope all the AI art theft in general gets legally broken over the leg of the usually crazy litigious copyright holders. I'm shocked there hasn't been much talk about that (from what I've heard)
There should be a marvel villain named Professor Wombat
Professor Wombat. Yes.
I think it's a clever subversion of the Captain Marvel twist without undermining the twist itself. And if the ultimate reason is just "inaction on crisis radicalized a large group of refugees" then it will be a much better message to people in power than FatWS's "just do better" message.
But it won't reflect on real-world refugee populations, will it? I think Bob implied that.
"Dumb things should be dumb and proud of it!" Words I can live by. :D This review makes me glad I stopped watching the TV shows!
One of the best elements of the Marvel tv shows, especially the Netflix shows, was the low-key references to things taking place in the MCU.
The most damning thing I can say about this, as someone who has been MCU ride or die since before the damn thing even existed-- I was so bored by this I turned it off halfway into the first episode; but not before skipping to the end and going "huh."
And I really wanted a good Nick Fury show, but this just isn't selling. I love Marvel and I'm sure they're doing this or that behind the scenes for the X-Men and Fantastic Four, but right now they're the dominant superhero brand by default and not by merit.
What are you on about? This is like the best thing they've done since probably Winter soldier.
@@Carabas72 k. I turned it off halfway because I was bored as shit.
Benefit of Marvel being 100 miles wide at this point-- not every product has to be for everyone lest you not support "the brand" properly.
I don't think it's particularly well-made otherwise. Marvel's style was due to evolve 4 years ago and now it's getting ridiculous. Their writers are largely trash.
I thought the first episode was pretty good, bringing back the slow political thriller angle we haven't seen in an MCU property in a long time and helping create context even for people who haven't watched Captain Marvel. The only problems I noticed were how predictable Everett Ross' reveal was (I knew as soon as the other guy was telling him about the Skrull conspiracy that he was a Skrull himself) and the setting. I'm sure the script was written before the invasion of Ukraine, but the filming definitely wasn't. Don't construe Russia as a peaceful country being dragged into conflict by aliens infiltrating the government. You're giving Putin and his cronies positive press.
Yeah that ai art intro really bugged me
Ok putting aside the AI issues, this first episode was alright. Not my favorite MCU Disney+ premiere, but I’m intrigued to see where it goes next.
Though it we’re honest: Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes Season 2 is the standard this show will be judged against. Not the original comic.
Yes! Though, I'll be honest, EMH S01 was the gold standard for me.
Yes
Ah ok, so it's the Zygon invasion/Zygon Inversion episodes of Doctor Who, got it.
The comic was kind of a rip-off of the BSG reboot. The writer claimed to have never seen that show, but I don’t believe it.
A comment for the algorithm!
Very interesting (p)review.
Hi there!
General Kenobi?
@@Recraptorbeta Hello there!
The opening monologue about fake news and not knowing who to trust, in Moscow. How timely.
I would not have known the opening title sequence is AI generated if someone didn't say it. That might have been my first time watching AI-driven animation EVER.
After the bit with Ross (if you watched the 1st episode already, you know what I mean), I wonder who else was replaced with a Skrull, and if Marvel will use "they were a Skrull all along!" as plot-hole cement. Like after Wakanda Forever.
I know I'm in the minority but I prefer the kree and skrulls from one of the older avengers cartoons. Neither were good and that was fine. They were at war and neither were on our side viewing earth as just a key strategic territory both wanted to possess to aid them in their war effort. I think that would have made for a great underlying narrative post infinity war. We've dealt with saving half of all existence now let's chill out a little and get involved in a war that predates human existence and fight for earth's independence and be the centrists looking to bring peace to the blue space people and the green space people. Secret War could have been the next big avengers movie to bring everyone together to defend against the invading kree while at the same time weeding out the skrulls who already infiltrated our world and tricked our heroes to fight for them under the guise of the kree being the only threat. You could still have had the message about how we treat refugees by having some skrulls and kree defect to our side having fallen in love with our way of life and the people they interacted with or just tired of eons of war and want to know peace.
Oh what could have been...
It's marvel, so it'll be cool enough.
But, and this may be just my fanboy thing.
I so want a Beyonder level Marvel/SW/Disney blowout movie. Just a huge OTT planet based fight between the universes.
Oh well.
❤❤
The plot is awlward considering we're hovering over a nuclear war with Russia at the moment
Nah, that's Cold War BS. More like Russia is hovering on the brink of collapse due to COVID and a VERY ill-advised invasion.
I've watched both episodes now an quite honestly, I find it boring an uninspired. Feels more lieka Cold War spy story than an alien invasion story and that's probably intentional and alien invsaion stories have often been metaphors for the fear of a communist takeover but here that's even more emphasized by the Skrulls being based in Russia and that's a bit too on the nose for my taste.
That said, both episodes had killer cliffhanger endings and it's MCU so I'll keep watching anyway...
🥰
Make more damn sense now in real world politic. Some country like Indian , the youth are creating far right movement
Not that it would help our xenophobia problem any, but I was hoping Secret Invasion's bad Skrulls would turn out to be a cult of Fin Fang Foom worshippers (because green shapeshifters), and this would be a way to make Captain Marvel and Shang-Chi relevant again, maybe tying Khamala's bangle and the Ten Rings together as a new set of MacGuffins being used to keep the eldritch horrors like Dweller, Nightmare, Dormammu, and MEPHISTO from exploiting Incursions to invade the lower dimensions. I mean, it's the perfect opportunity and timing to make the subversive joke that it *isn't* always Kang behind everything, make sense of the last three years of content, and "cleanly" pivot to a new focus without becoming their biggest imitator.
Slava Ukraini
Episode 1 was a whole lot of OH MY GOODNESS WHAT THE ACTUAL...?! and has me well hooked. Well, for now, anyway. But, we've been hearing about this a long while now, so I'm not sure how it slipped under your radar, Bob. Glad you like it too, though; means we're all on the same page.
At least I hope it does... and you're not - you know - a Skrull, or something.
What da fok is that pixalated filter over all the shows footage? How Im supposed to see what is going on?
Engagery for Algor Ythmic Enumerational Embiggenment.
Ill wait til the whole series has dropped and we get a complete review. I don't want to waste my time with another mediocre series.
It sucks lol
I don’t watch MCU stuff anymore. I just watch spoiler reviews.
Slick, yes. Entertaining? Ummm . . . about that: Yes, there are likeable elements but sometimes they come across as a little too cookie-cutter to really become interesting. Yes, Ben Mendelsohn shows that he's capable of really terrific acting but will he be allowed to do more than just punch narrative buttons? Samuel L. Jackson actually gets to do something I've never seen him do before: be old and tired. And there is a huge elephant in the room but will this show acknowledge it: UKRAINE. I'm sorry but this show makes Moscow look better than I can believe right now. That seriously undercuts my suspension of disbelief. Normally I would give a show like this a chance to develop into something that could hold my interest, but too much of this show is just too rote and by-the-numbers to really hook me in. And I say that as someone who was invested in "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." from the very first episode all the way to the very end. And that makes me sad.
Um....except for a few shots of Russian flags that could have been just about any major city in Central or Eastern Europe.
Moviebob has turned into an HR meeting aobut your problematic coffee cup, that says "I hate Mondays", "have you considered the feelings of people who actually like Mondays?"
The fuck are you on about?
"Comment about AI Art controversy"
And here's mine vis-a-vis those opening credits: more proof that no one knows how to use AI effectively enough to do what lazy execs want it to.
I’m starting to think James Gunn was the secret sauce all along and ever since they fired him, marvel is having dceu problems, while dc is now starting to get their shit together since he’s been on their team.
No, they're not. They're having post-COVID problems, as Mr. Chipman keeps trying to tell you. And with a cruel, lying POS like David Zaslav as a boss, I have no faith Gunn will be allowed to succeed.
I am somewhat unhappy about the way they take it. Because it very much does seem to be goin into the direction of "refugees and immirgrants are bad actually"
Honestly it doesn't surprise me that moviebob is simpinig for copyright; he's definitively the kind of person who doesn't care the damage indie artists would suffer is the AI art lawsuits win (seriously, fuck copyright, intellectual property is an aberration)
Given how many copyright strikes Zaslav's goons have handed down to him over publicly available footage in recent times? I imagine our Mr. Chipman is a bit more jaded than you on the subject. Also, the AI sequence was so ugly, it only proves that lazy execs will never get from it what they want at this level.
@@johnathonhaney8291 is he? He literally supported a position that would nuke his channel into oblivion; seriously it bothers me how many independent artists are calling for copyright maximalism that wouldn't deter AI much, but would enable corporations to crackdown on small creators. AI models can be trained with AI output, but restricting what works can be used freely exposes artists, specially fan artists, to copyright takedown.
Also the AI sequence was fine, I don't know why people call it ugly; it wasn't the most impressive sequence I've seen, but it had that style that's particular to AI art
Ep 1 was so lethargic and clunky, with weird editing and boring action.
Honestly cant say im looking forward to more
If it don’t have she hulk booty clapping I don’t want it, jk
If this show isn't as good as Agents of SHIELD then I will consider it to be a disappointment.
Too bad I'll never watch this show over the inclusion of AI art
I mean, on reflection I haven't actually seen any Marvel stuff at all since the second Avengers film
But Bob, if these spoiled brat writers continue to write below sub par crap, and the corporations run out of money, then what? Do you want the companies to go broke? Apparently, you don't seem to care because 'muh writers, muh product to consume. Economic feasibility, and quality writing be damned.
At first I thought your comment was satire, but you seem to have played it pretty straight. If satire, slow clap. If not, slow head shake and ask why when you are oliver twist do you route for the master?
@@SilortheBladeTrust me, this guy is WAY too sincere for satire, just a jealous sheep of a smaller flock.
I never found the story in the comics terribly interesting, and between the AI credits and yet another woman in the fridge, I'll be skipping this one. I'll just read the wikis to get caught up if it impacts anything in Kamala's movie in November.