Heavies only seem bad due to the stigma of thinking that if someone is slow and easy to hit they're bad. Heavies are great because they can capitalize off it by armoring through hits to deliver huge punishes or utilize having a further reach with strong attacks. Dk V Puff sounds fun until you realize one hit from Dk means puff might just die. And even if they don't it's a huge momentum swing since Dk has more range than piff with his moves. Projectiles are really their only downfall, they grab to counter defensive options like blocks and parries, you can trick the opponent into rolling by making them think you throw out a slow move just to mix them up by attacking where they'll be after the roll, projectiles force you to be evasive unless you have a reflector, and heavies have little to no evasion since they're meant to take hits on the chin.
I don't think 7:22 was an untechable. The launch effects such as the smoke trail are red because K. Rool got launched by player 1, and characters launched by particularly powerful moves have a "meteor entering the atmosphere" effect for the first half of the launch. So, it looked a bit like an untechable because that meteor effect was superimposed by the effect produced when K. Rool hit the underside of the stage, and the tail end of the meteor effect looks similar to the extra red flair added when when a stage impact is untechable. I looked closer, frame by frame, and I'm pretty sure that's what's actually going on there.
Steps when fighting a difficult boss: figure out their attack patterns, avoid their attacks, don’t get hit by their stronger attacks. Steps when fighting a heavy: figure out their braindead options, avoid their attacks, don’t get hit by their stronger attacks. I sense a pattern 🤔
That depends on the person's playstyle, it clearly shows how smooth Zach was playing with heavies in contrast with HopCat, Zach has nailed the timings and the movement from the heavies, while HopCat expects a more quick and nimble response. I'm not saying he's bad with heavies, he just needs to get used to it. It's like playing Dr Mario, he's my main but damn he's slow, I usually play fast characters like Pichu or Yoshi when fooling around and they feel so easy, but when I get serious, I choose Dr Mario or Krool, I have to think what I'm doing and be more careful.
Little disappointed to not see any Ridley. Even if he's not heavy enough to technically be a super heavy he feels like something of an honorary heavy to me. Still a very fun video regardless!
@@PigismalRidley is also usually like 5x bigger in the Metroid games. If you think about it, Ridley probably isnt that heavy. Most of his size is wing span, and his weight would decrease logarithmically thanks to square cube law. As barely twice Samus's height, I don't think he's heavier than a tall bird lady with a giant suit of armor.
Ganondorf's problem isn't only being a heavy. His problem is that his moveset doesn't work with the kind of character he is because he is a very slow character that uses a moveset that was designed for a very fast character. That's without mentioning the moveset also being unfaithful to his appearances in his series with a few exceptions like his Side B and Forward Air.
As a Dedede main in elite smash… I think upping the damage threshold for the gordo’s would be great, as well as making the forward smash match the animation better, and having a bit more aerial mobility.
In my option, for Gordo Toss, they should outright remove the ability for single Gordoes to be reflected by non-reflected attacks, increase their damage output, launch/kill power, shield damage and *possibly* allow a second Gordo to be tossed at the cost of allowing non-reflector moves to reflect them again (with like a 10% damage threshold though).
Your videos since you 'switched' up your content are really Peak hopcat imo. Not that I don't like the old ones but these just seem to be really thought through and they feel fresh compared to what over gaming channels release at the time.
The reason heavies are bad at the highest levels of competition is because mistakes are few and far between and you need to capitalize quickly on your opponent's slightest misstep. heavies resist launching more but if you're getting launched then you're losing anyway. if heavies were going to be viable at top competitive levels they would need to hit way harder but then they would dominate casual play even more than they already do.
I don’t really agree with Hop’s analysis on K Rool, I think the belly armor is both a reasonable way to shore up the traditional heavy weaknesses AND a good way of invoking the underhanded feel K Rool has in his original boss fights. Other than that, Incineroar is the clear standout, as well as the role Charizard plays as a part of Pokémon Trainer. DK would probably be fine if he got some more elaborate throw combos and a barrel replacing his head but side special. Bowser needs to have his recovery improved, balance his onstage game however you want to compensate. That leaves Ganondorf and Dedede, who realistically both need full reworks. Ganondorf more so than Dedede, but they both could use a more extensive look at their movesets.
if there's one thing i learned from this video, its that did you know that bowser down b is actually free offstage against hero because the up b will save you every time? you can go for down b on recovering heroes for free because
I'll be honest, I've been watching a lot of "early Little Z/Underdogs content" aka pre-covid era videos and I thought this was another one lol. Like I thought it was the video where you played elite smash until you ran into Little Z, take this as a compliment?
I get what he means. Heavy characters' strengths aren't rewarded at high level and their a lot of heavies' weaknesses make them almost unplayable if your opponent studies the game minimally.
DeDeDe is already perfect and doesnt need to be changed at all. He was top tier meta defining at my colleges tournaments and we had some semi pro players who used him. You gotta be WAY more aggressive and throw smashes out otherwise people will be bold enough to combo food you. A few forward smashes and aggressive up b landings will make people respect your killing power and give you space to control the fight with ur gordos
I think Zacks right incin is best designed heavy and it's my fav to play and I preform well in tourney with it too even against falcos and bad mus hype comebacks and u draw a crown to watch u play inci it feels amazing
Incineroar vs K Rool is insane. I'm an Incineroar player and K Rool gets wrecked. counter the recovery while still on stage for free revenge, his fat ass gets frame trapped and combod real bad and Incineroar hits hard enough to get early stocks on K Rool too
K.rool gameplay player plays with one hand while eating chicken nuggets in the other K.rool eats chicken nuggets to get fatter so his belly armor is stronger
![Peter train vs helicopter [game name in comments]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w-iROs-tflA/mqdefault.jpg)
Go to buyraycon.com/hopcat for 15% off your order, plus get free domestic or flat fee international shipping. Brought to you by Raycon.
Absolutely everyone loves heavies, we TOTALLY do and that has nothing to do with the video theme.
How dare you speak about our perfect King in that way. Dedede is perfect in every way
Heavies only seem bad due to the stigma of thinking that if someone is slow and easy to hit they're bad. Heavies are great because they can capitalize off it by armoring through hits to deliver huge punishes or utilize having a further reach with strong attacks. Dk V Puff sounds fun until you realize one hit from Dk means puff might just die. And even if they don't it's a huge momentum swing since Dk has more range than piff with his moves. Projectiles are really their only downfall, they grab to counter defensive options like blocks and parries, you can trick the opponent into rolling by making them think you throw out a slow move just to mix them up by attacking where they'll be after the roll, projectiles force you to be evasive unless you have a reflector, and heavies have little to no evasion since they're meant to take hits on the chin.
_"Do you wanna win, or do you wanna Down+B"_ (With Bowser)
Now I understand the final battle of SMB3.
Both of You are mooks😒
Zack after pressing side-b 27 times:
"He's such a spammer!"
King of skill mashing intensifies
Hopcat was the one who said that tho
@@bonkeykong858 zack said it too
@@Arronic"your such a masher"
@@robertitonicitomip95127 YOU ARE A ROBOT!!!
“I love HEAvies” -Zack 3 seconds into the video
“I looOOoove the waffles” -cogger
Spoilers bro
@@DAWGIESZ64it was 3 seconds bro
@@DAWGIESZ64your not funny
@@JohnyMeBoithey are funny. And much funnier than the original comment, which literally just quoted the video without adding anything 💀
This is as natural a fit for Zach as "I played Smash with Little Z and he took a shot for every stock he takes"
So nice of hopcat to collab with a small youtuber
I don't think 7:22 was an untechable. The launch effects such as the smoke trail are red because K. Rool got launched by player 1, and characters launched by particularly powerful moves have a "meteor entering the atmosphere" effect for the first half of the launch. So, it looked a bit like an untechable because that meteor effect was superimposed by the effect produced when K. Rool hit the underside of the stage, and the tail end of the meteor effect looks similar to the extra red flair added when when a stage impact is untechable. I looked closer, frame by frame, and I'm pretty sure that's what's actually going on there.
🤓
🤓
Thanks you for your research, brave solider
Man got called a nerd for this…he did it for us o7 we love ya
Untechable would've been an actual red splash, the splash was greenish blue still
Hopcat: "heavies are bad at a high level"
They get online to try and disprove his point
Online high level?
Down-b into windup his punch is a true combo
Steps when fighting a difficult boss: figure out their attack patterns, avoid their attacks, don’t get hit by their stronger attacks.
Steps when fighting a heavy: figure out their braindead options, avoid their attacks, don’t get hit by their stronger attacks.
I sense a pattern 🤔
Zack: “We should give Dedede some throw combos”
Me: *flashback to infinite down throw chain grabs in Brawl*
They DID THE THING WITH THE THUMBNAIL
So nice to see zack playing his best characters in yet another video
really like the new style of content hop has been doing recently
Ikr it's really fresh and unique
I hope you're joking
That depends on the person's playstyle, it clearly shows how smooth Zach was playing with heavies in contrast with HopCat, Zach has nailed the timings and the movement from the heavies, while HopCat expects a more quick and nimble response. I'm not saying he's bad with heavies, he just needs to get used to it. It's like playing Dr Mario, he's my main but damn he's slow, I usually play fast characters like Pichu or Yoshi when fooling around and they feel so easy, but when I get serious, I choose Dr Mario or Krool, I have to think what I'm doing and be more careful.
Little disappointed to not see any Ridley. Even if he's not heavy enough to technically be a super heavy he feels like something of an honorary heavy to me. Still a very fun video regardless!
As one of the few Ridley mains it makes me sad how light he actually is. Even Samus is heavier than him :(
@@johnstarinieri7360 one of the least canon weight choices in history, samus is heavy in metroid but not THAT heavy
@@PigismalRidley is also usually like 5x bigger in the Metroid games.
If you think about it, Ridley probably isnt that heavy. Most of his size is wing span, and his weight would decrease logarithmically thanks to square cube law. As barely twice Samus's height, I don't think he's heavier than a tall bird lady with a giant suit of armor.
11:09 I swear I heard "I know I'm gonna win, Corrin's an immigrant"
Ganondorf's problem isn't only being a heavy. His problem is that his moveset doesn't work with the kind of character he is because he is a very slow character that uses a moveset that was designed for a very fast character. That's without mentioning the moveset also being unfaithful to his appearances in his series with a few exceptions like his Side B and Forward Air.
His only canon move is his forward tilt, a move from the Twilight Princess boss fight, which I find hilarious
@@Aj-if6rj His Side B is based on him choking out one of the sages in Twilight Princess.
@@Aj-if6rjBest part is that both his canon moves (the kick and flame choke) aren't even canon to his ultimate design.
@@Robbie_Haruna Oh shoot your right
@@AubergineMans What a mess of a character
atleast they got marth in elite smash
8:02 ''Free neutral win'' he says, offstage
As a Dedede main in elite smash… I think upping the damage threshold for the gordo’s would be great, as well as making the forward smash match the animation better, and having a bit more aerial mobility.
In my option, for Gordo Toss, they should outright remove the ability for single Gordoes to be reflected by non-reflected attacks, increase their damage output, launch/kill power, shield damage and *possibly* allow a second Gordo to be tossed at the cost of allowing non-reflector moves to reflect them again (with like a 10% damage threshold though).
So heavies are good as long as you are good and your opponent is bad. Got it.
And you aren’t Dedede
And you don't stand still to get combo by high tier characters like captain falcon or Mario
Also Steve
Cough
Here comes peter giving fitness tips to betas
The thing I get from that first part with Charizard is, "when in doubt, Flareblitz".
square has messed me up so many times. I live in WA so i love seeing all the players i VS in everyday show up in the videos. some how i haven't tho :)
Your videos since you 'switched' up your content are really Peak hopcat imo. Not that I don't like the old ones but these just seem to be really thought through and they feel fresh compared to what over gaming channels release at the time.
I love watching heavy gameplay, I’d love to see more!
YOOOOO my jab 2 into bair up b though
Lord of all Lewis fr
w plays
absolutely ballin with the link
my goat
Would love to see you do the wii fit challenge poppt1 did a while back we’re every time you lose a stock you have to do a certain number of pushups
Hearing the "counter" from guilty gear strive has made me realise how long i havent heard it for, i have it replaced by the vine boom.
The greninja named brick that 3 stocked himself is just *chef's kiss*
80 minutes of the chair videos has poisoned my brain into immediately thinking “IMMUNITY” when they’re up 2 stocks 😭
I think Charizard might actually be Little Z's best character. I feel like every time he plays Charizard he goes off
The reason heavies are bad at the highest levels of competition is because mistakes are few and far between and you need to capitalize quickly on your opponent's slightest misstep. heavies resist launching more but if you're getting launched then you're losing anyway. if heavies were going to be viable at top competitive levels they would need to hit way harder but then they would dominate casual play even more than they already do.
Hopcat : "lets play heavies"
Little Z : " I LIKE EM BIIGGG, I LIKE EM PLUMPY"
8:32 counter must become an underdogs running joke please
18:20 Do NOT get cheesed
No johns
“He’s such a spammer!”
Zach after his 21st side b:
Now we need a part 2 where you only use lightweights
Opposite day I shall say 😑
"god he's such a spammer" Zack says, literally only using side b and down b the entire match
7:30 “untechable at 50”
1. Not untechable
2. Wasn’t at 50
Was untechable, head the red fountain
Also it is called, “rounding”
Rounding to the nearest multiple of 50
🤓
That K. Rool gameplay tho!
I don’t really agree with Hop’s analysis on K Rool, I think the belly armor is both a reasonable way to shore up the traditional heavy weaknesses AND a good way of invoking the underhanded feel K Rool has in his original boss fights.
Other than that, Incineroar is the clear standout, as well as the role Charizard plays as a part of Pokémon Trainer.
DK would probably be fine if he got some more elaborate throw combos and a barrel replacing his head but side special.
Bowser needs to have his recovery improved, balance his onstage game however you want to compensate.
That leaves Ganondorf and Dedede, who realistically both need full reworks. Ganondorf more so than Dedede, but they both could use a more extensive look at their movesets.
"I'm just gonna jump and flare blitz"
"I CHALLENGE this NOBODY youtuber to a HEAVIES MATCH"
"Hop what the hell u saying u know me since forever"
I usually skip past the Raycon sponsors but the drawing really had me drawn in so I sat through it
“Corrins are never good”
MKLeo playing Corrin last year : hold my beer
It wasn't because MKLeo's a Corrin player, it was because the Corrin player was MKLeo.
Spargo's really good tho.
@@justinfabela4899nah corrins good
*Dedede that's the name you should know*
Just to let you know, ur my favorite underdog. I legit laugh so much at ur jokes in the underdos vids 😂
one day, I hope they hop on slippi and just mess around, the online is much better
With all the counter sound effects, I'd love to see you try playing a bit of guilty gear strive. Great vid!
hey now, Inceneroar, Ganon, and Dedede are my fav characters, leave them alone xD
I need one more hour of this
I had a friend that owned smash ultimate for years and never noticed that they never unlocked dedede
Listening to the raycon ad with my JLab GO Air Pop earbuds
Bro just assaulted me by saying “Corrins are never good” 😩
And then Little z dies to a smart counter lol karma for talking smack to our main 😂
@@Tee_Wilson TRUE!!!
if there's one thing i learned from this video, its that did you know that bowser down b is actually free offstage against hero because the up b will save you every time? you can go for down b on recovering heroes for free because
we all love heavies
if you hate heavies, you're just wrong
Yes
Heavies are underestimated
Np matter how big bulky you are
You're super armor will carry you
@@Arronicheavies that dont have super armour:
It in fact was not untechable at 50, he got the red launch trail not the red tech splash
For some reason I thought they were versing each other and then I saw the tag “creature”.
I'll be honest, I've been watching a lot of "early Little Z/Underdogs content" aka pre-covid era videos and I thought this was another one lol. Like I thought it was the video where you played elite smash until you ran into Little Z, take this as a compliment?
When in doubt nair it out
-based hopcat
Hopcat was the one being forced to play heavies
The chair's taking over
"king of skill would like to know your location"
I get what he means. Heavy characters' strengths aren't rewarded at high level and their a lot of heavies' weaknesses make them almost unplayable if your opponent studies the game minimally.
"If I were to say something about Incineroar, I would say he's the best designed heavy in Smash."
Pokemon fans, get him
DeDeDe is already perfect and doesnt need to be changed at all. He was top tier meta defining at my colleges tournaments and we had some semi pro players who used him. You gotta be WAY more aggressive and throw smashes out otherwise people will be bold enough to combo food you. A few forward smashes and aggressive up b landings will make people respect your killing power and give you space to control the fight with ur gordos
where's the /j??????
Me listening to the raycon ad using my racon earbuds XD
I can’t attack cancel to save my life. Hands too slow.
I was wondering why Kazuya wasn’t included then remembered Ganon didn’t give him the rank of heavy
I think Zacks right incin is best designed heavy and it's my fav to play and I preform well in tourney with it too even against falcos and bad mus hype comebacks and u draw a crown to watch u play inci it feels amazing
I guess pt3 of this trilogy is playing heavies against a pro (poppt1)
Support all underdogs all put out great vids 👍
I wish ridley was a heavy 😢
It seems Peter forgot about Brent, huh
You should get Zack to direct your sponsor segments.
I haven’t watched yet but I wonder if there’s a kazuya or piranha plan in this video
Does the editor play guilty gear strive? That counter message was crispy
mans been playing ggs i swear
Heavy gaming
Poor DDD...😢
He needs a rework for sure, sadly. Although, he is fun to play.
No Piranah Plant smh
0:50 bring rock smash back
Zack relegated to “this TH-camr”
My biggest question at the end of this: Is Ridley not considered a Heavy? Otherwise, did you guys just forget about him?
ridley is a big light character
Samus is heavier than Ridley
...huh. I don't know why I remember him being heavier. Maybe just him having the same Down Smash as the two newest heavies threw me off.
@@RotaAbyssian Because he's giant. Guess he has hollow bones just like a bird
for some reason at the start i read heavies as he ve's i dont know why but i did
Incineroar vs K Rool is insane. I'm an Incineroar player and K Rool gets wrecked. counter the recovery while still on stage for free revenge, his fat ass gets frame trapped and combod real bad and Incineroar hits hard enough to get early stocks on K Rool too
K.rool gameplay player plays with one hand while eating chicken nuggets in the other K.rool eats chicken nuggets to get fatter so his belly armor is stronger
Never played heavies
But looks like someone is doing fine playing em :]
Leave the funny penguin alone
First minutes of the video is based bring charzard rocksmash back
INCINEROAR IS BROKEN DUDE
7:21 not untechable at 50 the k rool is just bad
Did not know hopcat was a w artist
Ganondorf is heavier than Ridley?! I'm confused how Ridley isn't here 😮
I played the 8 heaviest characters. Ridley is 15th! Lighter than Samus lol
@@HopCatSmash That's kooky, thanks for the knowledge! Cheers
I was just watching one of your videos and this came out lol
My GF disagrees but theres a guy on love island called George who’s basically British Hopcat
"Top tier privelidge" he says about ZSS who the top user of (Marss) has tried to swap off of multiple times because shes literally so bad
8:25💀💀💀
Why does this sound to derogatory 8:25