Hey, great channel 👌🏼 watched like a ton of videos today and as Ive experience in the industry for almost 13 years now I still learned something today 😊 So I’m doing my live vocals over multistage compression if possible. Of course general EQing or dyn EQ and then into multiple stages of compression using a very fast attack and release time to tame very high peaks. I’m using a hard knee here. So it’s basically a sort of limiter bit but not with a very high ratio. I’m using 2/3:1. After that I’m hitting my „fattening“ compressor with a slow attack (45ms) and a middle to fast release (around) 65ms. This compressor is doing most of the work with around 4-6 dB of reduction. And if I somehow have a built in plugin available or even an outboard hardware in my 500 series I’m going even one step further and compressing it either way an opto or I’m using a HF limiter, or and multiband depending on the style of music. This is my chain that I’ve perfected over the years and it is killer and super versatile. Not possible with every desk of course but doing a few steps in multiple stages is key in my opinion. Cheers ✌🏼
I like to compress my vocals with no makeup up gain to catch the peaks on the individual channel, and that then goes to a group where it's a more smooth compression with a soft knee and around 2-3 maybe 4db of gain reduction then makeup gain depending on the genre, and a slower attack and release time to thicken the vocal out and make sure it is always audible in the mix, usually with onboard compression or an LA-2A clone (think dlive with d pack). I like this because most digital desks allow a PEQ/GEQ on the group so I can kill the feedback that the makeup gain may (or may not) bring out. Great video!
Nice summary for a basic vocal. I like to eq my send to the reverb instead of the return. I find this to be cleaner. In addition to the filters I also like a small dip with a medium to narrow Q around 1k. This helps the presence of the vocal.
Please how can i achieve the Benjamin Dube kind of BGV's mix. I got a new job as a mixing engineer and my BGVs mix is too in the face. I wanna achieve a soft and airy kinda vox mix. Can you make a video on this?😊
Personally, I like to keep compressor gain reduction peaking at -6dB, and would tend avoid reaching -10dB for a lead vocal as it can sound a bit lifeless at that point, IMO. Of course, use your ears not the meters.
I feed two channels from main vocal input - First one has normal eq and no compression, this is the one I also send to monitors. The second one has more cut through eq, abundant compression (with make up gain) and some saturation. During live I balance these two according to situation. I like to ride FX very low but not mute between songs - if theres a certain atmosphere being created within the set, maybe even with little storytelling then total mute fx kind of kills the vibe, it of course depends of the scenario.
Great stuff Andrew! Depending on how powerfull the singer is, I'm often using input gain up to 26db and maybe 28 if there's only one vocal mic and the singer is really quiet. Obviously you need to have the monitor wedge eq'd so feedback freqs are notched. And definitely eq the incoming effects signal, either on the effects virtual device if it has one, or on the return channel.
I racked my brain for a week trying to figure out how to better utilize what i have. For signal processing. All analog except the driverack PA. So i like my mackie profx12 v3. Lots of control on levels, the 3 band channel eq is nice and smooth. But the fx section kind of sucks. No adjustable parameters, and just sounds too wet and even when the vocal is sounding good its still quite weak. So i had 2 gigs on the same night last month, so ordered a cheap behringer 4u 12 channel unit and then a buddy gave me an old vocopro mic mixer (it does have adjustable parameters in the fx section plus a 7 band eq on the main output and sweepable mid on the mic section) I have a dbx 2231 eq, and 266 stereo compressor, but have 4 mics i want to apply the eq and compression to. So for comp and eq i used the sub output and route channels 1 thru 4 (mics with onyx preamps) to go to the compressor, then eq then back to the mixer on channel 5/6 using the stereo line input so i can isolate left and right if i need to. Using the aux/monitor send i send a signal to the behringer, to take advantage of its fx section and the dirt of its preamps. Using the fx send i send a signal to the vocopro to take advantage of its delay parameters then route that to another channel on the behringer, then the mains of the behringer go to channels 7/8 and 9/10 of the mackie to be put into the main mix. Panning each group oposite each other. This is a karaoke setup. I will eventually buy a midas mr16/18 or behringer xr16/18 to do the same, but i now have somewhat dynamic control over my fx, i can compress all mics precisely and i have the added benefits of live vocal layering using things i already had. If it flops (worked well at home at high levels) tonight i just route to the main mix and bypass the sub group and im back to square one lol.
Try insert cables Y with send and return I use them on each channel no need for using so many channels send to compressor then back to the channel input 🙂
@@stephancarroll7260 I only have 2 channels of external eq and compression, technically 2 channels of fx. I need to process up to 6 channels at times. Sending them to the sub group and splitting them into 2 separate chains allows me to dry process on one chain and send that dry signal to mains and process the 2nd chain with fx mixed on the other mixer and compressed/gated before sending to a separate fader then to mains. Each channel on the Mackie has its own mute, so i don't have to wear out knobs and faders between songs or sets. Speaking is clear and clean, and singing is present in the mix without being too wet with fx. I can pan everything separately to place a singer or singers in the right place into the prerecorded music. If I were to use inserts, I would need a compressor, eq and multiple fx channels for each Individual channel on the board. And the fx portions I'd have to have quick access to the bypass buttons to mute or install a footswitch chain. But even then I'm at the mercy of the wet/dry knob. I'd much rather blend in a wet signal next to a dry one vs having one or the other and be able to adjust the dynamic compression of each independently.
Enjoyed your vid. I have a very generic set up for a vocalist in my living room. Using a vocoloco / chorus pedal / ventris / blue sky/ going thru a TC vocalist vocalist unit. No mixer and playing through 2 powered 12" monitors. Any suggestions ?
I’ve found through the years that I really need to use make-up gain to get vocals out there even with the obvious high-pass filter and mid cut EQ applied. I’ve never know why. People say don’t use it but I always have to. I’m doing something wrong.
Could be a few things: not enough headroom in the system, gain staging, amount of compression. There's nothing wrong with using make up gain if you're in control and you know the effect its having. But if you can't things loud enough without it I would assume there is gain staging problem.
Great video! I do agree that you should be very conscious of muting delays between songs, however reverb can just be turned down, as I’ve become more experienced I find it sounds weird when the vocal goes totally dry. Turn the verb down a gooooood amount but just enough left that talking still has a little bit. Maybe it’s just me and a subtle touch but one that I find to be nice.
I totally agree! I don't usually hard mute effects either but it's much easier to tell someone to mute than say, "turn it down a bit, you decide how much".
Yeah for sure: 1.EQ. if you're in a small venue, mkae sure you're you're ringing out and tuning your PA and monitors. Be gentle, only make a few cuts and try not to cut more than 3db. Also try and identify where the feedback is coming from, is it monitors or FOH. Turning down monitors won't stop feedback in FOH 2. Positioning. make sure your monitors are placed in the area of rejection from your mics. Make sure you know the rejection pattern of your mic, sm58 is not the same as beta58 for example. Also make sure your PA is in front of the stage. Further the mics are from the speakers, less feedback there will be. 3. Understand it's just physics. The mics can only go so loud before they will feedback. A little EQ can help but there comes a point where they can go no louder, then the band must play quieter and vocalists must sing louder. Hope that helps.
Interesting about not using make-up gain on a compressor. Totally agree about high and low pass filter on FX returns, and also riding the faders and cutting on talking!
Yeah maybe I'm strange for not using make up gain. I just don't often compress hard enough to need it really. But it's just how I work. It's not like I've never used make up gain, it's just that I've seen some amateur disasters with tons of compression and make up gain to compensate.
Oh I get it now hahaha! Finally, by the end of the video I realize you arent the vocalist 😲. I'm thinking "how do I ride the faders while I'm singing?" Having said that, man I learned some things here! So question then, I'm going to be using a boss ve 20, how will that effect your average sound guy at a venue?
Haha I'm glad you got something out of it man. In my experience vocal pedals always do something weird to the vocal dynamic range but it shouldn't be a problem. Be wary of using any compression or distortion effects, it can result in feedback really quickly. Also just try and communicate that you'll have it in advance. But really any decent sound person should be able to work with you to get the most out of the effect.
Very Impressive Work! Thank you for this gem! I gotta suggest a video on an overlooked aspect of vocals which is the production. I came to realise this from a video that Nick Mavromatis did. Everyone focuses so much on the mixing when it’s only 50% of how to get a good vocal. Check out his episode on vocal production!
Thanks so much. I agree, though there's only so much you can do live, if there's been good production and arrangement behind a live performance, for say a tour then it makes all the difference. I'll definitley check the video out :)
My live vocal “chain” looks like this. Gain stage: as close to -18db as I can get with out pushing the mic gain past 22-25 db. Eq: much like how was explained this this video. Compressor: 7:1 or sometimes 10:1 ratio, 3 - 6 db of reduction and if it really needs it, upwards of 7 db of make up gain! Which I know sounds scary. But if find if your gain and eq are set properly, you don’t have to fear it so much
I compress our vocalist in a similar way. I find we have to be quite aggressive on the make up gain. A low cut and a few EQ cuts keep feedback at bay. But that said, because all of our musicians have digital setups with quite considerable dynamic differences, I apply a similar strategy to the bass, guitar and keyboards too.
Hey, not sure I understand what you mean exactly. On the vocals I aim for about 6dB of gain reduction. I tend to have compression on most drum shells, and bass. Sometimes on brass. I'll have a drum shell group for b parallel comp. I don't tend to do any masterbus compression live. I hope one of those answers your question! Let me know.
I will review our settings at rehearsal on Sunday. Currently I think the reverb effect is on stage, I will try hall out. I am currently compressing at 4:1 but do use make up gain. If I don't use make up gain for live gigs and as a result. Have to turn up the channel fader, doesn't this increase the undesirable ambient noise and reduce the quality of my signal to noise ratio? I'm interested to know how you keep the vocal at the front without make up gain, maybe you turn everything else down. Thank you for the video
@chris Jones Hey Chris, makeup gain. That's just how I do it. I know loads of sound techs that use makeup. I'm just lazy so just do it on the fader. It doesn't make a difference whether you add gain on the fader or the compressor. The signal to noise ratio will be the same. You could argue that makeup gain would preserve your gain structure but I'm not compressing enough to make a big difference. My advice would be to Use less compression if you can't keep the gain ahead by riding the fader.
Hey, great channel 👌🏼 watched like a ton of videos today and as Ive experience in the industry for almost 13 years now I still learned something today 😊
So I’m doing my live vocals over multistage compression if possible. Of course general EQing or dyn EQ and then into multiple stages of compression using a very fast attack and release time to tame very high peaks. I’m using a hard knee here. So it’s basically a sort of limiter bit but not with a very high ratio. I’m using 2/3:1.
After that I’m hitting my „fattening“ compressor with a slow attack (45ms) and a middle to fast release (around) 65ms. This compressor is doing most of the work with around 4-6 dB of reduction. And if I somehow have a built in plugin available or even an outboard hardware in my 500 series I’m going even one step further and compressing it either way an opto or I’m using a HF limiter, or and multiband depending on the style of music.
This is my chain that I’ve perfected over the years and it is killer and super versatile. Not possible with every desk of course but doing a few steps in multiple stages is key in my opinion.
Cheers ✌🏼
I like to compress my vocals with no makeup up gain to catch the peaks on the individual channel, and that then goes to a group where it's a more smooth compression with a soft knee and around 2-3 maybe 4db of gain reduction then makeup gain depending on the genre, and a slower attack and release time to thicken the vocal out and make sure it is always audible in the mix, usually with onboard compression or an LA-2A clone (think dlive with d pack). I like this because most digital desks allow a PEQ/GEQ on the group so I can kill the feedback that the makeup gain may (or may not) bring out.
Great video!
Nice summary for a basic vocal. I like to eq my send to the reverb instead of the return. I find this to be cleaner. In addition to the filters I also like a small dip with a medium to narrow Q around 1k. This helps the presence of the vocal.
THX for posting , weekend warriors need all the help they can get for live sound management
Thats the first perfect explanation I heard on YT _ thats the truth
White Robert Walker Maria Gonzalez Brenda
I use AUTO compression on X32,M32, XAir mixers and it works perfect on vocals for me.
Definitely the most actionable and practical advice on live vocals! Thank you
Thanks so much, great to hear you enjoyed :)
Please how can i achieve the Benjamin Dube kind of BGV's mix. I got a new job as a mixing engineer and my BGVs mix is too in the face. I wanna achieve a soft and airy kinda vox mix.
Can you make a video on this?😊
Personally, I like to keep compressor gain reduction peaking at -6dB, and would tend avoid reaching -10dB for a lead vocal as it can sound a bit lifeless at that point, IMO. Of course, use your ears not the meters.
I feed two channels from main vocal input - First one has normal eq and no compression, this is the one I also send to monitors. The second one has more cut through eq, abundant compression (with make up gain) and some saturation. During live I balance these two according to situation. I like to ride FX very low but not mute between songs - if theres a certain atmosphere being created within the set, maybe even with little storytelling then total mute fx kind of kills the vibe, it of course depends of the scenario.
Great stuff Andrew! Depending on how powerfull the singer is, I'm often using input gain up to 26db and maybe 28 if there's only one vocal mic and the singer is really quiet. Obviously you need to have the monitor wedge eq'd so feedback freqs are notched. And definitely eq the incoming effects signal, either on the effects virtual device if it has one, or on the return channel.
I racked my brain for a week trying to figure out how to better utilize what i have. For signal processing.
All analog except the driverack PA.
So i like my mackie profx12 v3. Lots of control on levels, the 3 band channel eq is nice and smooth. But the fx section kind of sucks. No adjustable parameters, and just sounds too wet and even when the vocal is sounding good its still quite weak.
So i had 2 gigs on the same night last month, so ordered a cheap behringer 4u 12 channel unit and then a buddy gave me an old vocopro mic mixer (it does have adjustable parameters in the fx section plus a 7 band eq on the main output and sweepable mid on the mic section)
I have a dbx 2231 eq, and 266 stereo compressor, but have 4 mics i want to apply the eq and compression to.
So for comp and eq i used the sub output and route channels 1 thru 4 (mics with onyx preamps) to go to the compressor, then eq then back to the mixer on channel 5/6 using the stereo line input so i can isolate left and right if i need to. Using the aux/monitor send i send a signal to the behringer, to take advantage of its fx section and the dirt of its preamps. Using the fx send i send a signal to the vocopro to take advantage of its delay parameters then route that to another channel on the behringer, then the mains of the behringer go to channels 7/8 and 9/10 of the mackie to be put into the main mix. Panning each group oposite each other.
This is a karaoke setup. I will eventually buy a midas mr16/18 or behringer xr16/18 to do the same, but i now have somewhat dynamic control over my fx, i can compress all mics precisely and i have the added benefits of live vocal layering using things i already had.
If it flops (worked well at home at high levels) tonight i just route to the main mix and bypass the sub group and im back to square one lol.
Try insert cables Y with send and return I use them on each channel no need for using so many channels send to compressor then back to the channel input 🙂
@@stephancarroll7260 I only have 2 channels of external eq and compression, technically 2 channels of fx. I need to process up to 6 channels at times. Sending them to the sub group and splitting them into 2 separate chains allows me to dry process on one chain and send that dry signal to mains and process the 2nd chain with fx mixed on the other mixer and compressed/gated before sending to a separate fader then to mains. Each channel on the Mackie has its own mute, so i don't have to wear out knobs and faders between songs or sets. Speaking is clear and clean, and singing is present in the mix without being too wet with fx. I can pan everything separately to place a singer or singers in the right place into the prerecorded music.
If I were to use inserts, I would need a compressor, eq and multiple fx channels for each Individual channel on the board. And the fx portions I'd have to have quick access to the bypass buttons to mute or install a footswitch chain. But even then I'm at the mercy of the wet/dry knob. I'd much rather blend in a wet signal next to a dry one vs having one or the other and be able to adjust the dynamic compression of each independently.
Enjoyed your vid.
I have a very generic set up for a vocalist in my living room.
Using a vocoloco / chorus pedal / ventris / blue sky/ going thru a TC vocalist vocalist unit. No mixer and playing through 2 powered 12" monitors.
Any suggestions ?
Set up for acoustic playing only.
excellent video and super helpful, thank you!
I’ve found through the years that I really need to use make-up gain to get vocals out there even with the obvious high-pass filter and mid cut EQ applied. I’ve never know why. People say don’t use it but I always have to. I’m doing something wrong.
Could be a few things: not enough headroom in the system, gain staging, amount of compression. There's nothing wrong with using make up gain if you're in control and you know the effect its having. But if you can't things loud enough without it I would assume there is gain staging problem.
How about some examples next time?
Is the compressor suitable for live vocal performances such as band or karaoke?
Great video! I do agree that you should be very conscious of muting delays between songs, however reverb can just be turned down, as I’ve become more experienced I find it sounds weird when the vocal goes totally dry. Turn the verb down a gooooood amount but just enough left that talking still has a little bit. Maybe it’s just me and a subtle touch but one that I find to be nice.
I totally agree! I don't usually hard mute effects either but it's much easier to tell someone to mute than say, "turn it down a bit, you decide how much".
Great information congratulations!! Any advice for mixing vocals at FOH and monitors with only One mixing console ? I have some issues with feedback 😢
Yeah for sure:
1.EQ. if you're in a small venue, mkae sure you're you're ringing out and tuning your PA and monitors. Be gentle, only make a few cuts and try not to cut more than 3db. Also try and identify where the feedback is coming from, is it monitors or FOH. Turning down monitors won't stop feedback in FOH
2. Positioning. make sure your monitors are placed in the area of rejection from your mics. Make sure you know the rejection pattern of your mic, sm58 is not the same as beta58 for example. Also make sure your PA is in front of the stage. Further the mics are from the speakers, less feedback there will be.
3. Understand it's just physics. The mics can only go so loud before they will feedback. A little EQ can help but there comes a point where they can go no louder, then the band must play quieter and vocalists must sing louder.
Hope that helps.
@@OffshoreAudio you help me a lot ! Many thanks. Greatings from colombia
@@ibarralopezdavid you can use subgroups to EQ your vocals for foh and not affect the vocals in your monitors
Interesting about not using make-up gain on a compressor. Totally agree about high and low pass filter on FX returns, and also riding the faders and cutting on talking!
Yeah maybe I'm strange for not using make up gain. I just don't often compress hard enough to need it really. But it's just how I work. It's not like I've never used make up gain, it's just that I've seen some amateur disasters with tons of compression and make up gain to compensate.
Oh I get it now hahaha! Finally, by the end of the video I realize you arent the vocalist 😲. I'm thinking "how do I ride the faders while I'm singing?"
Having said that, man I learned some things here!
So question then, I'm going to be using a boss ve 20, how will that effect your average sound guy at a venue?
Haha I'm glad you got something out of it man. In my experience vocal pedals always do something weird to the vocal dynamic range but it shouldn't be a problem. Be wary of using any compression or distortion effects, it can result in feedback really quickly. Also just try and communicate that you'll have it in advance. But really any decent sound person should be able to work with you to get the most out of the effect.
YOU are the best compression! That is a great point!
what‘s that software ur using
Its just the offline editor for M32. M32Edit, you can get it here.www.midasconsoles.com/product.html?modelCode=P0B3I
.no? Are you norwegian bro?
Thanks for the knowledge 😁
You're very welcome :)
Bose T1😂😂
Very Impressive Work! Thank you for this gem! I gotta suggest a video on an overlooked aspect of vocals which is the production. I came to realise this from a video that Nick Mavromatis did. Everyone focuses so much on the mixing when it’s only 50% of how to get a good vocal. Check out his episode on vocal production!
Thanks so much. I agree, though there's only so much you can do live, if there's been good production and arrangement behind a live performance, for say a tour then it makes all the difference. I'll definitley check the video out :)
This video is about mixing "live" vocals so you can't do zip about the vocal performance;)
My live vocal “chain” looks like this. Gain stage: as close to -18db as I can get with out pushing the mic gain past 22-25 db. Eq: much like how was explained this this video. Compressor: 7:1 or sometimes 10:1 ratio, 3 - 6 db of reduction and if it really needs it, upwards of 7 db of make up gain! Which I know sounds scary. But if find if your gain and eq are set properly, you don’t have to fear it so much
I compress our vocalist in a similar way. I find we have to be quite aggressive on the make up gain. A low cut and a few EQ cuts keep feedback at bay. But that said, because all of our musicians have digital setups with quite considerable dynamic differences, I apply a similar strategy to the bass, guitar and keyboards too.
Yep, I too will generally add compression make-up around 6 - 8ish db, but ratios around 4:1
Thanks for the video, how much compression do you have in the mix?
Hey, not sure I understand what you mean exactly. On the vocals I aim for about 6dB of gain reduction. I tend to have compression on most drum shells, and bass. Sometimes on brass. I'll have a drum shell group for b parallel comp. I don't tend to do any masterbus compression live. I hope one of those answers your question! Let me know.
I will review our settings at rehearsal on Sunday. Currently I think the reverb effect is on stage, I will try hall out. I am currently compressing at 4:1 but do use make up gain. If I don't use make up gain for live gigs and as a result. Have to turn up the channel fader, doesn't this increase the undesirable ambient noise and reduce the quality of my signal to noise ratio? I'm interested to know how you keep the vocal at the front without make up gain, maybe you turn everything else down. Thank you for the video
@chris Jones Hey Chris,
makeup gain. That's just how I do it. I know loads of sound techs that use makeup. I'm just lazy so just do it on the fader.
It doesn't make a difference whether you add gain on the fader or the compressor. The signal to noise ratio will be the same.
You could argue that makeup gain would preserve your gain structure but I'm not compressing enough to make a big difference.
My advice would be to Use less compression if you can't keep the gain ahead by riding the fader.
Make up gain is feedback material, absolutely bang on!! It'll ruin your night, trust me! Love your vids mate, keep em comin!
Cheers man! much appreciated :D