2261 The Ammonia Car And The Hydrogen Economy Just Got One Step Nearer
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Links
Original Paper - pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsa...
Solar Ammonia Paper - pubs.rsc.org/en/content/artic...
Solar Ammonia UIC Video - • Solar-driven electroch... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
The chances of ammonia being used as a road fuel are somewhere between zero and bugger all. Ignoring the obvious toxicity, by any measure it's a poor fuel with horrendous NOX emissions that would require as much as 80ml of Adblue per mile to remove from the exhaust of an typical family car. Toyota have made a whole series of bad decisions and are now putting up every smoke screen and delaying tactic they can think of to give them a chance of catching up with their competitors.
but the climate activists only care about CO2 emission
It truly sucks if it gets loose. You have another Bopal on your hands. However, it is possible to use it more efficiently in a fuel cell. Then you have a smaller Bopal on your hands.
Toyota breaks records in how many mistakes they can make.
Possibly. But maybe Toyota are doing something strategically smart. Competition amongst car producers is brutal and probably unsustainable. Eventually, many of today's biggest car producers will go bust. Toyota are playing a 'zigzag' game. When everyone else zigs, they zag. It means that if they win, they win big because they were the only ones who zagged. If they don't win, well, they probably would have lost anyway, even if they had followed the crowd.
@@audiodead7302And current EVs are terrible so they may win in the end due to hybrids, hydrogen (but they seem to have abandoned this), ...
@@audiodead7302 toyota has many ammo lined up, gasoline, hydrogen, Plug in EV, Hybrid, plug in hybrid, solid state battery, ammonia car in development.
If only ammonia was not so toxic. I dread to think about the fumes of even a tiny leak in a cars fuel system or leak during filling the tank, or the potential of a major leak after some accident breaking the tank or fuel line.
You can store it as Magnesium nitride and probably other compounds, but maybe the overall efficiency drops too much.
There's a ton of ammonia in interior paint, especially what I use.
@@JesusSaves86AByou really have no idea do you.
It's also pretty nasty when released in volume from refrigeration systems. The injuries that it can cause are pretty horrific. Seen a case when the engineer survived for a few years. Horrible.
There were some incidents accidents deaths from domestic ammonia fridges before the creation of freon. The weak point was in sealing the compressor effectively for the high pressure required for operation. Actually Einstein and Szilard worked on a solution to that problem by development of an MHD pump that would thus be completely leak proof . Anyway freon came along but the MHD concept was later adopted for nuclear power stations.
For ammonia storage for fuel purposes , I'm sure that charcoal can absorb a decent amount equivalent to if it were at say a hundred atmosphere pressure or even more at standard temperature pressure (STP) . But water absorbs around 80% it's own mass at standard temperature pressure equivalent or along those lines . Conceivably the water/ammonia mix would be heated to release the ammonia.
Imagine...if the Ford Pinto or Ford Exploder.....had run on ammonia😢😢
They would have 3/8" thick 2200 PSI pressure tanks that would be stronger than any vehicle you could hit them with.
That is what is federally required to ship and store ammonia.
You would end up doing more damage to the OTHER vehicle than to the fuel tank.
@@DeliciousDeBlair there are lot of ignorant people out there, just spewing fear without knowledge, just like the covid hysteria.
Might as well. Here in the US we've already got guys pissing into the DEF tanks on their diesel trucks 😂
DEF is piss. 32.5% Uriah 67.5% deionized water.
Piss and water.
I assume you realize that urea is actually only a little over half of the stuff in there besides water. It'll clog up the filter and other plumbing in the DEF system fairly quick, some of the constituents can even crystallize under some conditions, and there's also a variety of bacteria (don't know if they can survive in the DEF system or not).
But this does have me wondering if there isn't a way to use some of this ammonia tech with urea, which is just ammonia reacted with carbon dioxide, but way less toxic than ammonia. So if you could store and transport it as urea and somehow convert it back to ammonia on board as needed, it'd be less nasty. Except then you'd be releasing a bunch of CO2, I guess
forward osmosis of urea to ammonia (nasa)
Does anyone have any news of his family? How is he?
Is he related to Anthony Hopkins? Looks just him!
Excellent information here. Free energy here we come!
That method might take alot of energy but making it through electrolysis does NOT take much energy
Sounds like a terrible fuel for domestic vehicles.
you heard it wrong
Thanks for the video -- unless the Ammonia is in some new form that is safe for handling -- not gonna even come close to wanting to use this.
The pure Anhydrous Ammonia that would be used as a fuel -- just insanely unsafe to handle... and requires a lot of safety protocols and training -- which is why it requires professionals to handle it.
it is used as a fertiliser..........
@@roybarton9617But it uses equipment and safety standards that can't be used for final costumers.
@@roybarton9617 are you a plant
Case for Ammonia cars assumes that EV battery technology remains the same, it doesn't. EV charging infrastructure is expanding now & battery technology continually improving. In essence Ammonia cars are just too late.
I think its a pointless exercise for cars. Unless they can filter out the toxic exhaust fumes 100%, its still going to dirty the air we breathe.
Hey robert......I wonder whether carbon doped graphite carbon nitride can store ammonia as well as it can store hydrogen? Might be worth looking into...two uses for nitrogen and carbon
What would happen if they recycled the byproducts back through another lithium battery cell? Or a cell of different composition? Sorry I'm not a chemist. It would seem the process of creating the Ammonia then burning it would leave byproducts which could be reshaped in a similar fashion.
Neat, thanks.
all i can say is YIKES!!
Robert, have you seen the new developments in the alchemical engines from Bendal ? They got some very interesting data and if its true it is very good news.
Probably end up drag racing Quatermass up the M1 in a Humber Hawk
Super cool, I will have to give that paper a look!
Awesome master class, mate, thanks 🎉
Hydrogen here, hydrogen there, hydrogen everywhere. The big issue is still getting the hydrogen made up or extracted. There is still no cheap or fast way to get loads of the stuff in a hurry for doing all these other ideas. This has to be tackled first.
I dont see carbon as the horrible bad guy its being made out to be,
I think that maybe if it were captured in some way (better than it is) it could possibly be reused as an energy source.
Also for cars, why not just bio gas like what comes off sewage and veg matter rotting.
I worked on a pig farm in germany and the gas was sold to the grid,granted it was cleaned and fiddled about with before it went to a customer but it seems better than drilling for it
Have you seen Garage 54's 4 cylinder "magnet" engine? Is it real or a hoax?
I love your channel and content. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the Hydrgen economy is a curse and will severely damage any progress we hope to make towards reducing emissions. There is a reason why the Oil and Gas industry u pushing hard for it. This is because, despite all the various ways we can make Hydroten and Ammonia, they know that any profit hungry corporation will always choose the cheapest method of making it, fossil fuels.
A .major flaw in Hudrogen and Ammonia as fuels is that their energy by volume density is abysmal compared to fossil fuels. For instance, Ammonia is such a terrible fuel source for a car internal combustion engine, that it is only considered an additive. You still need to use mostly gas and just mix in some Ammonia to bring down the emissions.
The worst thing is, the oil and gas sector are pushing very hard for governments to devote funds, resources, and time to Hydrogen and Ammonia infrastructure. Once the infrastructure is in place, governments will have bought into the plan. They will be far less likely to stop at that point, even when they realize that green Hydrogen and green Ammonia won't scale at prices compares to fossil fuels. Push comes to shove, they will act like Germany after they shut down their nuclear and got cut off from gas. They will scramble and use whatever is available. Fossil fuel produced Hydrogen and Ammonia.
S.M.H
Just....no
Where's your sense of adventure? Life is just so much more fun with ammonia.
@@j.f.christ8421it's more fun if you react it with sulphur dichloride in carbon tetrachloride. You can make S4N4 which can detonate when you: leave it impure, purify it, knock it, slide the crystals over each other, heat it, expose it to static electricity (Teflon spatula time). But it's great fun. 😂😂😂
Pee in the cars' tank ammonia from your pee.
The super stinky, volatile ammonia?
The MSDS also adds irritant, toxic, flammable, corrosive, eye damage, burns, but y'know, it'll be fine.
I spray it in an airless paint sprayer very regularly. It's in most interior latex paints.
@@JesusSaves86ABand?
If you've ever worked with anhydrous ammonia and seen the injuries it can cause you might wonder just how stupid this is.
Exactly! Imagine being trapped in a car crash and getting that first smell of ammonia before dying horribly as your lungs burn inside you. Or imagine being a first responder trying to free trapped people in that deadly environment.
Do something about the earth being egg shaped, information given on April fools day 😅
Loving the ammonia series 😁🙌
With ev tech moving ahead so quickly, this seems like a convoluted waste of time
Lmao instead of just using hydrogen and oxygen.
Loving the potato audio quality.
We're useless at adopting new ideas aren't we? Once you've charged your EV at home, just topping off today's usage, you'll never want to go to the fuel station, for ritualistic refuelling, again. How ever did we move from mobile phones to smart phones & weekly to daily recharging?
Though ammonia/hydrogen fuel for specific applications, like heavy haulage, sounds great.
Nice advancements in chemistry 👍
I wonder if a standard catalytic converter could be used to deal with the nitrogen oxides emissions from an engine burning ammonia as fuel? The way a typical catalytic converter works is by simultaneously dealing with nitrogen oxides and unburned / partially burned hydrocarbons in the exhaust: The nitrogen oxides are used as an oxygen source (aka oxidising agent) to oxidise the unburned or partially burned hydrocarbons, the net result being carbon dioxide, water vapour and nitrogen gas. The heat required to drive the reaction coming from the hot exhaust itself, which is why catalytic converters don't start working properly until the engine has been running long enough to bring them up to temperature.
Of course there would be no unburned or partially burned hydrocarbons in the exhaust from an ammonia burning engine - there would just be the nitrogen oxides, and perhaps some unburned ammonia, though not a significant amount of the latter unless the engine was running very fuel-rich. However, there would still be a way of making a catalytic converter work - you would just need a source of some gaseous hydrocarbons to inject into the exhaust. It wouldn't need much, because the nitrogen oxides are only present at the fraction-of-a-percent level. So maybe a small can of butane would be enough, such as the cans of butane sold for refilling lighters. Another possibility would be the cans of butane or propane/butane mix sold for running camping stoves or small blowtorches - these are a bit bigger and also come with a built in valve and rubber gasket seal, so fitting and changing them out is something anyone can do. Then you would just need a flow regulator to control the rate of gas delivery - and it would probably be best to inject the gas upstream of the catalytic converter, to give it a chance to mix with the exhaust first.
You could even improve the system a bit by injecting both fuel gas and extra air into the exhaust (combined with a spark plug or some other ignition method) to generate extra heat on engine startup - enough to heat the catalytic converter up to operating temperature. This would of course generate a bit of extra carbon dioxide emissions, but not all that much, and the payoff would be lowering the nitrogen oxides emitted, even for short journeys where the engine run time would not be long enough to heat up the catalytic converter to operating temperature.
An alternative to using a bit of extra hydrocarbon fuel to make the catalytic converter work for an ammonia-fueled engine would be if the catalyst could make the reaction between nitrogen oxides and unburned ammonia work: If you had enough unburned ammonia in the exhaust, then the net products from that reaction would be nitrogen gas and water vapour. So if the catalyst could make that reaction work, all you would have to do is make the ammonia to air ratio going into the engine fuel-rich (aka ammonia-rich) enough to get the right amount of unburned ammonia into the exhaust to compensate for the nitrogen oxides the engine also produces.
I'm not 100% certain if the catalyst currently used in conventional catalytic converters (platinum and related noble metals) can make the reaction between ammonia and nitrogen oxides work. But the catalyst used in the Haber-Bosch process might be a contender for this: Remember that the N2 + 3 H2 2 NH3 reaction is reversible, and that the way the catalyst is thought to work is by adsorbing the gaseous molecules onto the solid catalyst surface, weakening the intramolecular bonds (either H-H, N-N or N-H), thus lowering the activation energy required for both the forwards and reverse reactions. So including some of the Haber-Bosch process catalyst into a catalytic converter might well work for the reaction between ammonia and nitrogen oxides to make nitrogen gas and water vapour, which might well eliminate the need for using a hydrocarbon source to make the catalytic converter work. It might even be possible to use only Haber-Bosch process catalysts for this, without needing any platinum or other noble metals, which would make catalytic converters for ammonia-fueled engines a lot cheaper. Another possibility (though one which I am far less certain about) is that the iron metal present in the steel the exhaust pipes are made of might be a good enough catalyst for this reaction all on its own, in which case you might not need a catalytic converter at all.
Love your channel, mate.
Blue and green hydrogen will be the ultimate fuels when they are developed. Ammonia would just cause A-moan-ier bunch of lefties 😂
We just need to fund faster development of batteries and suercapacitors, we are nowhere near the maximum possible density of either. If they can get aluminium ion batteries to work, theoretical energy density of that is around 1000wh/kg. We are only around 200-250wh/kg with lithium ion currently.
Can the ammonia be made in the car as needed? If so you would not need to transfer/refuel the stuff or store a lot of it onboard.
There's a lot of this volatile ammonia in our cleaners and paints that I use every day for work.
And?
Have a whiff from the cylinders that are red, yellow and black. It's not much fun in tiny doses.
There's cyanide in apple seeds. What's your point?
isnt her a planet of ammonium around upiter of something? Imagine elon musk importing plastic to build rubber lining for cars on Europa or whatevr moon? wooh go elon! yay! Yah Elon!
Titan has oceans of cow farts. Probably cow fart icebergs as well.
That would make Ammonia only $1.002506266 USD per imperial gallon, based on $456 per imperial ton.
So that would make ammonia in and of its self potentially economically feasible, PROVIDED that the markup and the TAXES don't make it worthless compared to gasoline...
Couldn't you just bring back the gas station attendant, but have the attendant trained to handle the ammonia? I mean, we do the same thing with having propane tanks refilled?
Lol hydrogen and ammonia for transportation is a non-starter. 3 to 4x the costs compared to just using the electricity in an EV, no storage space due to tanks, crazy expensive and failure prone storage, transportation and filling infrastructure. No matter how hard the fossil fuel industry pushes H2, they can't change the laws of thermodynamics and physics. 13 million EVs sold in 2023, up 30% over 2022. 14,451 hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCEVs) were sold worldwide in 2023. This is 30.2% less than in 2022. Sales are down even compared to 2021. Not to mention the danger of H2 and ammonia.
Well, it's a step up from the iron-air battery from the last video. And the aluminium-air battery from while back. I still say eating beans, collecting ones farts and using the methane to run an engine is superior.
😂 I can split water quicker and easier then you can crack gas. But enough hydrogen to drive down a road in a 1-2 ton vehicle on demand with no storage not a chance unless you give me 30 years a lab, alot of free platinum and stuff we dont have enough of for the masses. But our current EV solution isnt much of a solution worldwide either. And theres alot of biased EV owners out there tooting their horn with a narrow perspective.
@@j.f.christ8421 But it's not a "step up" -- the type of Ammonia that they are talking about is super dangerous -- like literally it will wipe out a crowd of people standing around the car accident as the ammonia vaporizes into the air. Hydrogen gas has a lot of issues with storage -- people don't commonly drive around with pressurized gasses in giant tanks for a reason.
@@marcfruchtman9473 I guess schools don't have the "How To Spot A Joke" classes like they used to.
@@j.f.christ8421 Ah! My bad. (Well, to spot a joke in a text... that takes advanced classes!) hehe