On the Gilligan's Island of lawn care, you, sir, are the Professor. I had never done a soil test until this year and it was enlightening. My P was top of the range and K was deficient, so I switched to Ringer instead of Milo. Thanks to this video, it all makes sense to me now.
This was great, thanks! It was really cool to have you get down into the weeds on the chemistry here. Milo has been great stuff for me so far but knowing what's going on beyond the "5-4-0" really helps sort out how to use as a tool beyond "spread it out and hole for the best". The stuff on the N release rate was particularly interesting.
I have been using Milo for the past 4 years but as I have learned about the science of turf grass from you I have moved away from it and starting using a ammonium sulfate with methylene urea fertilizer this spring. So far I am pleased.
It's not that Milo is a bad fert, it's good. But it doesn't supply a complete nutrient profile. It also provides a carbon source which has great long term.benefits
Agreed, always had pretty good success with it and it is dummy proof. As you said in your video it can get expensive ( i have St.Aug in Central FLA) and I think there are better options even for the DIYer.
Man this was a great video with excellent technical content and great rationale explanation behind what you are and aren’t getting from Milorganite use. My next questions are: 1.) Can you do a similar video for Ringer 2.) The BEST advice I would take is what you would recommend for a well balanced approach and also give recommendations for particularly increasing soil nutrient levels if you’re lacking in certain specific areas. For instance: what do you do if you’re lacking Ca and Mg, what about Fe, Mn, etc.
Some good info. I believe you nailed it with saying that Milo is a good starting point. I also believe it works as a good supplementation with a lawn care program. I do not believe that Milo is the one all, do all. I always spread the suggested rate of Milo when I am spreading the synthetics. I believe Allyn, refers to this a an organic/hybrid system. Honestly, people are in some sort of organic craze and believe that organic means better.
Wow, so much info. I always thought this was the best fertilizer per all TH-camrs. You open my eyes, specially from a cost stand point. I'll be looking at those other sources of N
Phosphorous is an anion - it should not compete with the nutrients you listed, which are cations. Sulfur, boron and molybdenum are anions, so excess phosphorous may cause issues with those.
Spent the morning watching your excellent channel content. Two questions- I’ve got large bare spots in my palisades zoysia that resulted from large equipment in my lawn during a water feature install during the fall. Since zoysia spreads by rhizomes what can I do to speed up the spread of zoysia to fill in the bare spots? Add compost to bare spots? Other ideas? 2. Related to question 1, the bare spots also have brown patch due to a wet winter combined with the mechanical damage last fall. I’ve treated with 2 apps of pillar g over 2 weeks but should I postpone my first FERT app considering the brown patch? Much Thanks!
I’m in North Texas. I’ve been using Milorganite for 4 years. Ive discontinued using it because North Texas soil is naturally occurring in very high levels of P.
💣I love it when you drop all that knowledge! What do you think about mixing milo with some synthetic fertilizer like maybe putting a half a bag in with 50 lbs of fertilizer ? ( I don’t really know why) just thinking 🤔
Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown! Not a turf grass question, but I’m curious: Do you think you could use milorganite in some way to jump start a closed recirculating aquatic bio-filter for ponds or tanks of water used for fish culture or ornamental aquatic plant/animal displays? Could the fertilizer jumpstart the nitrogen cycle in new systems? Has it been used to jump start primary production in ponds?
Thanks for the great information I'm in Dallas been using milo for 2 yrs and definitely like the results going to use rgs next week what other fertilizers can I use for st augustine grass spring summer and fall with rgs?
Hey Grass Factor... Will Milorganite help break down heavy hard clay soil? I'm thinking of adding a bag of gypsum to a couple of really HARD areas. Any other suggestions on how to soften up these areas of hard clay?
Milorganite may pass the heavy metal test but pharmaceuticals? The jury is out. I'd love to see the testing. I personally wouldn't use it for a variety of reasons, mainly it's a rather pointless fertilizer for most situations, and what you specifically mentioned.
@@TheGrassFactor I used it for about 3 years in my yard and quit 2 years ago. It did help a little with overall greening, but my main focus was on keeping deer out of my garden. Deer don’t like the smell. It worked about 80-90% effective in that area.
Matt, I've been using Milo for two years here in N. Texas, on my Bermuda turf, going on season three. I've always used it in a hybrid system. Early spring I put a 25-1-2 and then use Milo the rest of the summer. This year I'm using the Nxt products. My question, should I back off Milo next year, year 4? Is the Hybrid mix a solid way to go, with Nxt products? Really appreciate all your info.
A hybrid approach is a great way to go. I like your style. Backing off the Miko may be necessary depending in your P levels. Pull a soil sample and see where you are. If high, pull it out
As a professional with purchase volume, my cost per k is $.20 per k or less. That's very cheap. For homeowners it's maybe $.45-.60 per k. That's pretty cheap, too.
If you break the cost of the N-Ext products down to per 1,000 ft2, it's not really expensive at all. Depending on the size of your lawn, you should get quite a few uses out of 1 gallon.
How long is the shelf life on their products? I have 5.5k sq ft. It would take me a long time to use up $100 worth, wouldn't it? I am afraid to sink a bundle and have it go bad. I saw someone comment that it is only good for a year in the bottle. Thanks for supplying so much good information.
ryeguy01 it may not be as pronounced, but turf is only supposed to be so green. Forcing it to be unnaturally green with excess iron is not a good thing. Especially when all that P begins binding up with all your extra iron and none of it is available
I put a full bag on my front lawn. Half bag, 1 week apart from the other half of the bag. My lawn sticks out like a sore thumb. This is in South FL and I did it about one month ago. This stuff moves slow but works.
Wow.. Milo at $8 per bag. The good old days. $15/bag in my area, and that is if you can find it. Nowadays you would think it was made from unicorn poo.
Can you expand a little more on how the result is a “net zero point” in organic matter? I think I followed what you were saying but would be helpful to understand the nuance behind the answer.
It was a mis-speak that I didn't edit out. Even though you're applying OM, it all gets used up or losses occur, so there's not an overall build up in soil OM. It does build up soil carbon though.
The Grass Factor I watched this video last night as I was about to fall asleep but somehow that is actually what I recall taking away from what you said.. that the OM applied would be used up, so it would be ‘net zero’ effect on OM. I guess I just wanted to get a better understanding of the science behind how OM can effectively be destroyed in soil. I was always under the impression that microbial activity on OM just converted that OM to different OM. Like dead grass roots that you have mentioned contribute to soil OM. The microbial activity that we want to promote is actually working against that? Sorry if this is a dumb question or one you’ve already answered.
This would be for my personal home, not for any of my lawn care clients. I have TTTF lawn, and live in Nashville, TN. Right now I am applying about 60% of bag rate of Milo bi-weekly to increase the organic matter in my soil per my soil test this past spring. Also putting out a couple table spoon of laundry soap every 6 weeks or so. Picked up a bag of the Anuvia today on my lunch break and thought I would give it a try on this Bi-weekly treatment.
Cody Sutherland with TTTF I would worry about applying too much N. If you're major concern is OM, I personally would huse humics. If you've got access to Milo, run with that. It has much lower N
The Grass Factor dang lol, already bought a bag. Guess I will see what happens. Better get it out before it gets too hot. How much should I put out on a 2500 sq ft yard?
U have enlightened me once again. I’ve been using Milorganite for roughly 3 years now with very good results, but after seeing this video I feel a bit foolish. Any idea when your fertilizer will be available for the DIY guy?
I think this TH-cam “Throw ‘er Down!” attitude to milorganite is dangerous. There are consequences like saturating your soil P levels. I would urge anyone is using milorganite on the max spreader setting to get a soil test this winter and re-assess.
Wow shit so what should we buy instead to feed microbes, get micros, get enough K, & N? I want to build the soil, but why waste $ with milorganite. Tell me what's next.
There's a thousand things I could recommend. Narrowing to one is nearly impossible. If you shift your focus from just greening grass to driving roots, you supply plenty of food for micros. Still feel like your lagging? Apply a little molasses. Need micros? Try foliar micros. Need carbon? Slow release? Try polymer coated, sulfur coated, or PCSCU and spray Humic acid. Like Milo? Balance it out with maybe 0-0-50 potassium sulfate. It's all about building what works for your lawn. Learn the science, apply the principles!
ok thank you. Yes my main concern is driving roots, density, and killing weeds atm. Green is irrelevant. I already applied molasses @ 25lbs per 5000sq. ft. I'm trying foliar micros with kelp, but it seems stupidly expensive. Also did some fish Emulsion. Polymer scares me personally just given what I know about plastic. Humic acid I can't find a place to get for less than $35/50lbs. Tried farmers coops near me, etc. Potassium sulfate is a great recommendation. I'll look around for it, but not sure where I'll get it. Probably not home depot or the Coop. Also not saying we should just buy one thing. I already use several. Mostly milo & lesco products atm.
The Next Products www.greenecountyfert.com/home/all-products/ I can try them. The $100 cost turned me away, but I was being irrational. Buying 10 bags of $12 fertilizer comes out to more in the end. I'll give it a try after I burn through the kelp. Thanks so much for all the replies! Currently am low in Zinc, copper, Boron, while Mn is at 14-15ppm.
Is there any way to bring down P levels in soil? Just wondering if it's possible to still use mostly milo but counteract the effects of the P building up.
Unfortunately only way to drop P is to make it available and stop applying it. Carbon is a great way to unlock it. As is potentially AMS. From that point, it's limiting your application rates of it.
🤣 I'm sad you take it as such! I don't hate it, I just want it to be clear it's not the end of lawn care, it's the beginning of a whole new world (🎶🎶🎶)
Not at all, at the end of the video I explain that he does things right! He utilizes a K source to keep things balanced. I really like the way he gets things done with his hybrid approach
The Grass Factor just poking fun! you're both awsome. Lcn does it from more of a homeowner approach and you come at it more from a business format. You are both extremely knowledgeable and unbelievably helpful to the people that watch.
On the Gilligan's Island of lawn care, you, sir, are the Professor. I had never done a soil test until this year and it was enlightening. My P was top of the range and K was deficient, so I switched to Ringer instead of Milo. Thanks to this video, it all makes sense to me now.
This was great, thanks! It was really cool to have you get down into the weeds on the chemistry here. Milo has been great stuff for me so far but knowing what's going on beyond the "5-4-0" really helps sort out how to use as a tool beyond "spread it out and hole for the best". The stuff on the N release rate was particularly interesting.
My new favorite channel. Turn in and nerd out on the science of growing turf.
I have been using Milo for the past 4 years but as I have learned about the science of turf grass from you I have moved away from it and starting using a ammonium sulfate with methylene urea fertilizer this spring. So far I am pleased.
It's not that Milo is a bad fert, it's good. But it doesn't supply a complete nutrient profile. It also provides a carbon source which has great long term.benefits
Agreed, always had pretty good success with it and it is dummy proof. As you said in your video it can get expensive ( i have St.Aug in Central FLA) and I think there are better options even for the DIYer.
The Ray Charles of the grass game.
Out freaking standing video. Thank-you for sharing!
Milo didn't do anything for my lawn. Using MicroLife products now. We will see how the Spring goes since the lawn is going dormant here soon in Texas.
Man this was a great video with excellent technical content and great rationale explanation behind what you are and aren’t getting from Milorganite use.
My next questions are:
1.) Can you do a similar video for Ringer
2.) The BEST advice I would take is what you would recommend for a well balanced approach and also give recommendations for particularly increasing soil nutrient levels if you’re lacking in certain specific areas.
For instance: what do you do if you’re lacking Ca and Mg, what about Fe, Mn, etc.
Some good info. I believe you nailed it with saying that Milo is a good starting point. I also believe it works as a good supplementation with a lawn care program. I do not believe that Milo is the one all, do all. I always spread the suggested rate of Milo when I am spreading the synthetics. I believe Allyn, refers to this a an organic/hybrid system. Honestly, people are in some sort of organic craze and believe that organic means better.
Thanks, as with most things, this is another tool for the arsenal
Wow, so much info. I always thought this was the best fertilizer per all TH-camrs. You open my eyes, specially from a cost stand point. I'll be looking at those other sources of N
Biggest factor I think many like for Milo is that you can't burn your lawn with it, you can use guesswork if your not familar and still do fine.
Phosphorous is an anion - it should not compete with the nutrients you listed, which are cations. Sulfur, boron and molybdenum are anions, so excess phosphorous may cause issues with those.
Unrelated but are going to make a white board video about fungicide program for fescue?
$8 a bag?! can’t ever find it around me for less than $13 a bag, which is why I never use it, and the fact that it stinks 😷
@Duke Of Prunes go to menards get their natural fert. milo sub
Spent the morning watching your excellent channel content. Two questions- I’ve got large bare spots in my palisades zoysia that resulted from large equipment in my lawn during a water feature install during the fall. Since zoysia spreads by rhizomes what can I do to speed up the spread of zoysia to fill in the bare spots? Add compost to bare spots? Other ideas? 2. Related to question 1, the bare spots also have brown patch due to a wet winter combined with the mechanical damage last fall. I’ve treated with 2 apps of pillar g over 2 weeks but should I postpone my first FERT app considering the brown patch? Much Thanks!
Well dammit. I have to re learn now.
Wait till the Allyn views this video!
I mentioned him because he does it right 😁
I’m in North Texas. I’ve been using Milorganite for 4 years. Ive discontinued using it because North Texas soil is naturally occurring in very high levels of P.
What is the least expensive lawn fertilizer? Milo bag price is very low.
Thanks for the info. Can you do a video on Ringer Lawn Restore? Thanks
Question for reference. Customers worried about run off into water ways. Milorganite VS Synthetic?
Milo? Failure?? Oh you trying to start something with that title =P
Laws of dimenishing returns! 🤣
Grass Daddy and they just reduced the iron to 2.5% in the new formula..
Semantics. 2.5% Fe is plenty
Grass Daddy so should we use milo ur something else? My head is spinning so many new words
Like a boss. Looking like a young Bocephus
Matt Martin = Hero
🤣🤣 far from it!
💣I love it when you drop all that knowledge! What do you think about mixing milo with some synthetic fertilizer like maybe putting a half a bag in with 50 lbs of fertilizer ? ( I don’t really know why) just thinking 🤔
How long (Typically) does it take to be completely broken down into the soil? And what does Milorganite do for pH? (if anything)
Thanks for the comprehensive breakdown! Not a turf grass question, but I’m curious: Do you think you could use milorganite in some way to jump start a closed recirculating aquatic bio-filter for ponds or tanks of water used for fish culture or ornamental aquatic plant/animal displays? Could the fertilizer jumpstart the nitrogen cycle in new systems? Has it been used to jump start primary production in ponds?
@Giant Bass71 wonder if it could jump start a reirc NAS bio filter if you kept light away.
Thanks for the great information I'm in Dallas been using milo for 2 yrs and definitely like the results going to use rgs next week what other fertilizers can I use for st augustine grass spring summer and fall with rgs?
Anyone you want. Just whatever your turf needs.
Before N-ext products where you using any humics as part of your programs, or more as trials here and there?
I didn't use it wide spread, but I did use a fair amount
Hey Grass Factor... Will Milorganite help break down heavy hard clay soil? I'm thinking of adding a bag of gypsum to a couple of really HARD areas. Any other suggestions on how to soften up these areas of hard clay?
Any OM will help,gypsum is a myth that it helps clay. The truth is OM and getting something growing on it actually works
Great video, dude is definitely smart
Does Milorganite contain pharmaceuticals and heavy metals?
Milorganite may pass the heavy metal test but pharmaceuticals? The jury is out. I'd love to see the testing. I personally wouldn't use it for a variety of reasons, mainly it's a rather pointless fertilizer for most situations, and what you specifically mentioned.
@@TheGrassFactor I used it for about 3 years in my yard and quit 2 years ago. It did help a little with overall greening, but my main focus was on keeping deer out of my garden. Deer don’t like the smell. It worked about 80-90% effective in that area.
great info great video! any products recommended that just gives Potassium if DIY continue to use Milo?
No real name brands off the top of my head. I don't use any branded fertilizers so hard to recommend one
Gene Manning` Look into Protassium 0-0-50. Potassium Sulfate. 👍
I'm a long term Milo user. What do you suggest for SE Michigan?
Does using the n-ext products help with the binding up of Phosphorus in the soil???
Yes
Mind Blown - I hate feeling like I'm back in college lol
An added benefit of Milo...the deer hate it and will stay away!
Matt, I've been using Milo for two years here in N. Texas, on my Bermuda turf, going on season three. I've always used it in a hybrid system. Early spring I put a 25-1-2 and then use Milo the rest of the summer. This year I'm using the Nxt products. My question, should I back off Milo next year, year 4? Is the Hybrid mix a solid way to go, with Nxt products? Really appreciate all your info.
A hybrid approach is a great way to go. I like your style. Backing off the Miko may be necessary depending in your P levels. Pull a soil sample and see where you are. If high, pull it out
The Grass Factor thanks Matt!
I’m hearing about these Next products, they appear to be quite expensive. How do you reconcile that?
As a professional with purchase volume, my cost per k is $.20 per k or less. That's very cheap. For homeowners it's maybe $.45-.60 per k. That's pretty cheap, too.
If you break the cost of the N-Ext products down to per 1,000 ft2, it's not really expensive at all. Depending on the size of your lawn, you should get quite a few uses out of 1 gallon.
The Grass Factor I am going to have to do more research on this. Thanks for responding
How long is the shelf life on their products? I have 5.5k sq ft. It would take me a long time to use up $100 worth, wouldn't it? I am afraid to sink a bundle and have it go bad. I saw someone comment that it is only good for a year in the bottle. Thanks for supplying so much good information.
Thank you
Is the level of iron in milorganite significant enough to give it a distinctive look?
ryeguy01 it may not be as pronounced, but turf is only supposed to be so green. Forcing it to be unnaturally green with excess iron is not a good thing. Especially when all that P begins binding up with all your extra iron and none of it is available
The Grass Factor What is the indicator that the P is bound up? Or iron is bound up plant can’t use it?
Powerbypoole chlorosis-iron, purpling shoots-P
I put a full bag on my front lawn. Half bag, 1 week apart from the other half of the bag. My lawn sticks out like a sore thumb. This is in South FL and I did it about one month ago. This stuff moves slow but works.
Milo.. It works!!!
Wow.. Milo at $8 per bag. The good old days. $15/bag in my area, and that is if you can find it. Nowadays you would think it was made from unicorn poo.
Yep, I went to HD to buy some, saw the price and said Nah!
I got that shirt....stitch fix??
Where Can I get a cap like that ? Good information
Thelawnforum.com
Can you expand a little more on how the result is a “net zero point” in organic matter? I think I followed what you were saying but would be helpful to understand the nuance behind the answer.
It was a mis-speak that I didn't edit out. Even though you're applying OM, it all gets used up or losses occur, so there's not an overall build up in soil OM. It does build up soil carbon though.
The Grass Factor I watched this video last night as I was about to fall asleep but somehow that is actually what I recall taking away from what you said.. that the OM applied would be used up, so it would be ‘net zero’ effect on OM. I guess I just wanted to get a better understanding of the science behind how OM can effectively be destroyed in soil. I was always under the impression that microbial activity on OM just converted that OM to different OM. Like dead grass roots that you have mentioned contribute to soil OM. The microbial activity that we want to promote is actually working against that? Sorry if this is a dumb question or one you’ve already answered.
The I'm is digested and nutrients are re
Leased. Carbon is deposited. The longer OM sits, the less nutritive value it has, but still deposits carbon.
All om is eventually digested
How about a 24-25-4, in conjunction with Milo?
Are you extremely deficient in phos?
Here come the pitchforks from /r/lawncare.
💖 reddit
Great video
Could you do one on ringer lawn restore lol
Sure
Anuvia or Milo? Thoughts? I have access to both, but from a previous video you seem to be more of a proponent of the anuvia.
Depends on what you're trying to do. But overall, anuvia is next level
I'll say like it was said to me - Milorganite is a meme
This would be for my personal home, not for any of my lawn care clients. I have TTTF lawn, and live in Nashville, TN. Right now I am applying about 60% of bag rate of Milo bi-weekly to increase the organic matter in my soil per my soil test this past spring. Also putting out a couple table spoon of laundry soap every 6 weeks or so. Picked up a bag of the Anuvia today on my lunch break and thought I would give it a try on this Bi-weekly treatment.
Cody Sutherland with TTTF I would worry about applying too much N. If you're major concern is OM, I personally would huse humics. If you've got access to Milo, run with that. It has much lower N
The Grass Factor dang lol, already bought a bag. Guess I will see what happens. Better get it out before it gets too hot. How much should I put out on a 2500 sq ft yard?
U have enlightened me once again. I’ve been using Milorganite for roughly 3 years now with very good results, but after seeing this video I feel a bit foolish. Any idea when your fertilizer will be available for the DIY guy?
It will likely be 2019. Lawyers told me to stop talking about it for the time being 🤣
I think this TH-cam “Throw ‘er Down!” attitude to milorganite is dangerous. There are consequences like saturating your soil P levels. I would urge anyone is using milorganite on the max spreader setting to get a soil test this winter and re-assess.
luckily even applying it at 20lbs/1000, 4xs a year, is still
You make that hat look good! 😜
It's the people behind it - not the hat 😁
What is a ine and done I can use my friend?
Wow shit so what should we buy instead to feed microbes, get micros, get enough K, & N? I want to build the soil, but why waste $ with milorganite. Tell me what's next.
There's a thousand things I could recommend. Narrowing to one is nearly impossible. If you shift your focus from just greening grass to driving roots, you supply plenty of food for micros. Still feel like your lagging? Apply a little molasses. Need micros? Try foliar micros. Need carbon? Slow release? Try polymer coated, sulfur coated, or PCSCU and spray Humic acid. Like Milo? Balance it out with maybe 0-0-50 potassium sulfate. It's all about building what works for your lawn. Learn the science, apply the principles!
ok thank you. Yes my main concern is driving roots, density, and killing weeds atm. Green is irrelevant. I already applied molasses @ 25lbs per 5000sq. ft. I'm trying foliar micros with kelp, but it seems stupidly expensive. Also did some fish Emulsion. Polymer scares me personally just given what I know about plastic. Humic acid I can't find a place to get for less than $35/50lbs. Tried farmers coops near me, etc. Potassium sulfate is a great recommendation. I'll look around for it, but not sure where I'll get it. Probably not home depot or the Coop.
Also not saying we should just buy one thing. I already use several. Mostly milo & lesco products atm.
Have you tried the Greene county line? Reasonably priced liquid. Has both micros Humic and kelp
The Next Products
www.greenecountyfert.com/home/all-products/
I can try them. The $100 cost turned me away, but I was being irrational. Buying 10 bags of $12 fertilizer comes out to more in the end. I'll give it a try after I burn through the kelp.
Thanks so much for all the replies!
Currently am low in Zinc, copper, Boron, while Mn is at 14-15ppm.
Its like McDonalds for your lawn
Is there any way to bring down P levels in soil? Just wondering if it's possible to still use mostly milo but counteract the effects of the P building up.
Unfortunately only way to drop P is to make it available and stop applying it. Carbon is a great way to unlock it. As is potentially AMS. From that point, it's limiting your application rates of it.
I'm blinded by your milorganite hate. :)
🤣 I'm sad you take it as such! I don't hate it, I just want it to be clear it's not the end of lawn care, it's the beginning of a whole new world (🎶🎶🎶)
Any suggestions for getting the organic matter up in my soil as quickly as possible?
Drive roots. Root cycling effect drives up OM faster than any supplementation
The Grass Factor do you have a root cycling video?
Mike R yes I do, search "root cycling effect"
All that fancy talk I just want know does it work how to put on and so on.
So does it work ? Lol
👍🏽
Do I smell a TH-cam Feud between you and Lawn Care nut? LOL
Not at all, at the end of the video I explain that he does things right! He utilizes a K source to keep things balanced. I really like the way he gets things done with his hybrid approach
The Grass Factor just poking fun! you're both awsome. Lcn does it from more of a homeowner approach and you come at it more from a business format. You are both extremely knowledgeable and unbelievably helpful to the people that watch.
🤯 way to many big words. 😴
Graham Oldreive about how I feel with a Faulkner novel 🤣
Milorganite is people poop from Milwaukee.
Milorganite is the worst fertilizer I have used. Used for two years and never made any difference.
Thanks!