Really nice overview, thanks. I very much like MQTT's JSON object modeling when using a versatile platform like Node-RED that handles JSON natively, for me it's one of its biggest advantages.
My experience has shown me that your thesis of "we'll have to support both" is true for everything. One size fits all assumes something generic, whereas specific is sometimes required (example: water proof hiking shoes versus ballet slippers). In my view the way forward is knowing when and how to chose and use different tools as they're most appropriate. Not picking one approach, but a set of patterns.
Really well balanced breakdown John. Thanks for your contribution. Have your Blue Book on OPC UA on my shelf. It helped me a lot in understanding the various aspects.
Although I have minimal knowledge and experience in this field, I have very similar views as explained in this video. Now, I don't have a crystal ball to look into the future but what I firmly believe is that OPC is not the answer. The main reason I say this is my reading of history. At the time OPC UA was being worked on, Service Oriented Architecture was all the rage and hence in the Microsoft world at least we had WCF which promised a lot of things. However, fast forward to end of 2022, WCF is no longer supported but instead Microsoft is advocating for Google's gRPC. While I have not worked with gRPC much apart from doing some beginner tutorials, for me the reason why gRPC has got more traction is simplicity, which incidentally, from this video, is one of the strengths of MQTT. As to the point that lots of companies are behind a particular technology/architecture/tool, is not a good indicator of the eventual "winner". Case in point, SOA at the time had all the major Software vendors provide SDKs. I am not saying that MQTT will be the "winner" but the fact that it is simpler means that adoption in the real world is likely to be higher simply because as a developer I have enough domain/infrastructure complexity to deal with and I don't need to deal with more complex architectures. The fact that people used MQTT in a domain that it was not really designed for further reinforces this point in my view. Now I think that currently, the main value of OPC UA is the standardised information model. However, there again, although I have not really worked in that field, currently as it stands, the information models are too complex and need simplifying ( I don't know how but divide and conquer would help). Then how we encode, transport, process and present the data can be left open depending upon our needs.
Excellent breakdown, John. FYI, I cut my teeth on OPC from your Blue Book. You are spot on: 'OPC tries to be everything'. And... 'Object modeling in MQTT is weak'... I absolutely agree with your thesis: you have to support both and information models are super important to the future. I want three things: 1. OPC Foundation to burn the technical debt in the UA standard (the being everything to everyone) 2. OPC foundation to re-write part 14 pub/sub 3. Leverage OPC UA Information and Object models with MQTT SPb. Thanks for the run-down!!!
Thanks Walker. Appreciate your thoughts. It's almost like the dems and repubs. All polarized. MQTT people won't admit its weaknesses. UA People won't admit its faults. Need everyone to work together to meld the best of both so we have a really good solution (never will be a perfect one).
Very interesting, thank you! I see that some companies and tool vendors are moving to OPC UA with MQTT to have the benefits from both worlds. From my experience this is a nice opportunity. OPC UA client / server for dedicated SCADA and automation principles locally in combination with OPC UA MQTT for low latency, low bandwith pubsub tech for IoT concepts. What is your opinion on this?
Nice video John. I did not know about your Blue Book. I just saw it on Amazon and there is no Kindle version. Any chance it will be available for Kindle?
There are companion specifications that define just that. However adding additional mixes of transport and data models adds complexity. Solutions and tools need to support that variety.
![OPC UA PubSub: What it is and How it Works? (OPC UA Over MQTT) [ 7 of 11 ]](/img/n.gif)
Well explained. Clear, precise, and straight to the point
Really nice overview, thanks. I very much like MQTT's JSON object modeling when using a versatile platform like Node-RED that handles JSON natively, for me it's one of its biggest advantages.
My experience has shown me that your thesis of "we'll have to support both" is true for everything. One size fits all assumes something generic, whereas specific is sometimes required (example: water proof hiking shoes versus ballet slippers). In my view the way forward is knowing when and how to chose and use different tools as they're most appropriate. Not picking one approach, but a set of patterns.
Very nice overview. Subscribed and bought the blue book 5 minutes into the video 🙂
Really well balanced breakdown John. Thanks for your contribution. Have your Blue Book on OPC UA on my shelf. It helped me a lot in understanding the various aspects.
Although I have minimal knowledge and experience in this field, I have very similar views as explained in this video.
Now, I don't have a crystal ball to look into the future but what I firmly believe is that OPC is not the answer. The main reason I say this is my reading of history. At the time OPC UA was being worked on, Service Oriented Architecture was all the rage and hence in the Microsoft world at least we had WCF which promised a lot of things. However, fast forward to end of 2022, WCF is no longer supported but instead Microsoft is advocating for Google's gRPC.
While I have not worked with gRPC much apart from doing some beginner tutorials, for me the reason why gRPC has got more traction is simplicity, which incidentally, from this video, is one of the strengths of MQTT.
As to the point that lots of companies are behind a particular technology/architecture/tool, is not a good indicator of the eventual "winner". Case in point, SOA at the time had all the major Software vendors provide SDKs.
I am not saying that MQTT will be the "winner" but the fact that it is simpler means that adoption in the real world is likely to be higher simply because as a developer I have enough domain/infrastructure complexity to deal with and I don't need to deal with more complex architectures. The fact that people used MQTT in a domain that it was not really designed for further reinforces this point in my view.
Now I think that currently, the main value of OPC UA is the standardised information model. However, there again, although I have not really worked in that field, currently as it stands, the information models are too complex and need simplifying ( I don't know how but divide and conquer would help). Then how we encode, transport, process and present the data can be left open depending upon our needs.
I have your blue book on my table. Learnt a lot from it. Thanks John for a quick meaningful comparison.
Awesome, thank you!
Excellent breakdown, John. FYI, I cut my teeth on OPC from your Blue Book. You are spot on: 'OPC tries to be everything'. And... 'Object modeling in MQTT is weak'... I absolutely agree with your thesis: you have to support both and information models are super important to the future. I want three things: 1. OPC Foundation to burn the technical debt in the UA standard (the being everything to everyone) 2. OPC foundation to re-write part 14 pub/sub 3. Leverage OPC UA Information and Object models with MQTT SPb. Thanks for the run-down!!!
Thanks Walker. Appreciate your thoughts. It's almost like the dems and repubs. All polarized. MQTT people won't admit its weaknesses. UA People won't admit its faults. Need everyone to work together to meld the best of both so we have a really good solution (never will be a perfect one).
Spot on analysis, the feeling is mutual!
thanks for everything sir
very sympathic, easy to understand, great video
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for this comparison. Had you done some comparison with LwM2M ?
Thanks man, very helpful
Very interesting, thank you!
I see that some companies and tool vendors are moving to OPC UA with MQTT to have the benefits from both worlds.
From my experience this is a nice opportunity. OPC UA client / server for dedicated SCADA and automation principles locally in combination with OPC UA MQTT for low latency, low bandwith pubsub tech for IoT concepts.
What is your opinion on this?
Thanks!! Excellent analysis!!
MQTT is also platform independent and certificates for security
MQTT‘s versions is not an issue，the higher versions all have backward compability
Nice video John. I did not know about your Blue Book. I just saw it on Amazon and there is no Kindle version. Any chance it will be available for Kindle?
No it's not on kindle and I don't know why. I'll see of I can find out.
Are these things not mutually exclusive? Surely we can leverage an MQTT or AMQP message broker to carry OPC-UA messages, can we not?
There are companion specifications that define just that. However adding additional mixes of transport and data models adds complexity. Solutions and tools need to support that variety.
Love the passion behind this video lmao.
Nice vedio...
"always going to be stuck with competing standards"
What I Love about John Rinaldi................ (I might run out of black ink)
If there are competing standards, there is no standard.
I use none of them. TCP/IP Sockets gives me the freedom to do it the way I want and/or need it
6919 Allie Dam
Birth, death and will ?? is there no other way to describe this in a more appropriate lingo? LOL Why did they name it this way...