My rule of thumb: Only run enough shocks that any of your fetchs can get you to the necessary mana density to cast your hardest to cast spell. (2UUBB is considered easier than UBB for example)
Follow it and be happy. Until double field of ruin cuts you off of a colour. Then you cry. But that's only applicable if you're playing a deck that can't afford to play a basic for the splash (like burn that doesn't want a plains).
Well, UR Storm plays four copies of Steam Vents, for what's fair. I agree it's a exception but it needs to be pointed out that sometimes you do want to play all 4 shocks on your 2 color deck
The thing that makes storm different from a lot of decks is that it has really strange mana requirements. Almost every important card in storm is red, so you need to have a ton of red sources, but all your rituals bar Manamorphose only make red, and you need blue mana for your cantrips and Gifts. Plus, since you're often drawing cards as you combo, you don't know exactly what colour of mana you need when you start your turn.
@@canismajor1186 Not in all builds, but yes most lists are fetchless because shuffling cards that you scry to the bottom isn't worth the deck thinning. Many storm lists also run the pain lands for the same reason they run all of the shock lands: the life doesn't matter if you plan on winning faster than your opponent anyways.
using fetchlands as deck thining is a mistake, the effect is negligible (you can google the maths). at the end of the day going fetchless means loosing less life for mana fixing. almost any 2-color deck can go fetchless.
I love the video, however you didn't go into much detail on a very important point that was just briefly mentioned. Not everyone has 6-8 fetch lands to play. How does the limitation on fetch lands effect the number of shocks you should run? Obviously you'll end up wanting more, but how many more?
Don't play a 3-color deck if you can't afford fetchlands. Once you're locked on a 2-color deck without fetchlands, take a look at UR Storm manabase. It just plays 4-of of the best 3 dual UR lands it can play, and then fills up with basic lands
You can always do what I do... That is, to keep your decks two color play four fast lands, four fetch lands (if its in your budget), four check lands, and four shocks, leaving room for however many ghost quarter or field of ruin you want, and the rest basics. I find that if you can get away with using Khans fetches whenever possible, the manabase I described above is usually very good and pretty affordable.
This guide isn't entirely accurate when it comes to three color decks. The decks mentioned (ie Burn and Spirits) play the number of shocks that they do entirely because of the fact that they only need a single mana of that extra color on any given turn. In general with burn you aren't going to play a helix and a boros charm in the same turn because with the right sequencing you dont need to, with spirits you most likely aren't going to cast a noble and a company in the same turn cycle because you don't need to. In a deck like jund and jeskai for example when all three of your colors could be needed in a single turn though you will need more shock lands in order to make your mana better. That's why jund and jeskai plays 5 shocks in almost every build. While I agree 6+ shocks is not needed in most three color decks, more often then not you are most likely running 5 unless your deck only needs a single mana of a third color. It is entirely dependent on how color hungry your deck is and just saying "its a trap to play more then 4" isn't accurate. Every decks mana base is going to be different and those numbers aren't going to be the same as another decks 95% of the time.
I learned this when playing/upgrading the Jeskai Flying Men deck: Blood Moon and burn were both very popular at the time, so fetchlands were more important additions than shocklands. I ended up playing 3x Flooded Strand, 1x Scalding Tarn, 1x Arid Mesa, 1x of each WRU shockland, and a Prairie Stream. Building a mana base in Modern is a much more complicated process than in Standard or EDH, and it largely depends upon the meta of your LGS.
Something I have been experimenting with is using some of the bicycle lands from Amonket over the second or third shocks. If I'm playing a slower deck and commonly fetching a hollowed fountain or watery grave tapped, then it may as well be a bicycle land and not a shock. Meanwhile, if I flood out, they cycle. The whole point of shocks is to fetch them out, and I usually end up only running 1 anyways, since I'd rather not be open to blood moon (Or choke in blue).
i am a brewer at heart and i have been noticing this problem with my three color decks, so thank you for the advice, also i think its fine to play three or four shocks in two color decks without fetches becuase you are less likely to run into them.
Very informative video for Modern especially considering that balancing mana bases is a hot topic often debated when considering builds. This should give most Modern players an idea of the "skeleton" frame for the Modern manabases, once you've already covered your on-color fetches of course. :)
I’m currently playing 6 shocklands in my janky budgetish Abzan. I have only 2 fetchlands (WG) and 6 checklands. I also have a bit of lifegain with 4 Siege Rhino, 3 Kitchen Finks, and 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor. It’s been working out fine, and I would like to know if there is a more optimal landbase I could be using (while still being budget friendly).
What if you're playing without fetches? For budget reasons. For example, I have 4 Steam Vents and 4 Sulfur Falls in a slightly upgraded version of Eminent Domain, is that too many?
Depends. I think 4-5 shocks should be ran in 3 color decks and 2-4 in 2 color. Fetches will go get your shocks so I think running excessive amounts feels bad. Shocks are very important to start the game with for checklands if your deck so chooses to run them. In UW control I'm only running 2 fountains and I don't regret it the fortresses are doing wonders along with just more basics. Not super weak to Blood Moon.
I play a tempo build of UW spirits. Looking for advice regards to this video. I have always ran the mana base with 4 shocks, and 2 pain lands, because anytime I can't deploy threats or answers due to colour limitations, I feel like I'm losing a ton of tempo, so I try to have as many lands as possible that can offer me either colour. Is this assumption incorrect? I don't run anything higher than a 3 drop in the main, and just a 2 of 4 drop in the board, with no double costed spells. Below is my current mana base. Would love to hear thoughts and opinions on what I should maybe change? Thanks in advance :) 4 Flooded Strand 4 Hallowed Fountain 4 Seachrome Coast 2 Adarkar Wastes 2 Moorland Haunt 2 Ghost Quarter 2 Island 1 Plains
You're running too many colorless lands. If you're having mana issues, they are the reason. Edit: also you don't have enough basics with all of the paths and field of ruins. I'd recommend 5-6 basics
@@TzHaar-Doug It's not that I run in to mana issues in the traditional sense, sometimes on turn 3/4/5 when I want to cast 2 spells, I find I'll have the incorrect combination to cast them both, while having needed a different combination the previous or next turn. Basics would make it worse. What I am saying is that a higher number of my mana sources throughout a game will be required to tap for both colours at some point. Hope that makes some sense? I can deffo see swapping out the Adarkar wastes potentially for basics, but must of the time they are paying for a generic cost. All the 2 and 3 drops have one generic, plus aether vial. The most common example I run into is on turn 4, flashing in a rattlechains, with 2 different 2 drop options to flash in after, one white, one blue. I feel like I need both colours available on as many lands as possible to be able to play the correct answer at all times. Thanks for the reply thought, much appreciated :) Edit: If I could afford 2 Cavern of Souls they'd go in for the wastes
I think burn is a bad example as to why you want less shocks. The mirror is really important on that issue. My BW tokens deck has 8 fetches and 4 godless shrines with two Concealed Courtyard. Today I got two additional concealed Courtyard and took out two Godless Shrines. I will test this out. For my 3 color decks I have 5 shocks. One of them is Abzan Rhino Rites so I'm always getting lands and wouldn't be against going down to 4 shocks. I hope you're right Seth.
I started playing 3 shocks in burn when field of ruin was heavily played. Vantage isn't fetchable so if both shocks get hit with field of ruin you can have a hard time finding white mana. It felt like 2 was right pre field of ruin but after rivals of ixalan 2 might not be enough.
I've just rewatched this in 2023, and the part that states that it's wrong to play 4 shocks in modern still holds up. I found one UR list playing 4 shocks, all other 2 colour decks I looked up in the meta run 3 or less.
Crack a fetch to pull a shocker, just gave my burn opponent a free bolt to my face to fix for 1 mana. Kind of a sketchy play at best. Play some basics boys and girls.
There are decks that ameliorate all of your potential down sides heavy aggro strats that race to the end or decks like deaths shadow or jund where your life total is just another resource
I don’t know if this applies to all 2 colour decks. In bridgevine, you need both red and black at all times, since you have a lot of RR costs, but also need BB to recast gravecrawler over and over, this is why the deck often runs 1 basic land max. And turn 1 you often need R or B, for looting or stitchers, so you always fetch+shock turn 1
What i've seen usually is this , turn one crack a fetch, and play untap shock land, that's already 3 damages to the face! you just bolted yourself on turn 0. Burn and Landscape decks love seeing this.
I feel the same way about the "fast" lands(or as I betterly call them, the "first" lands, 'cuz U play dem 1st....) A play set of *Copperline Gorge* , *Inspiring Vantage* , *Concealed Courtyard* & all their friends is, and always should be, three(3). In a "Perfect Draw" scenario where you get all copies of [CARDNAME] in your deck to start the game, getting 4 of a 1st land DOOMS the 4th one to EtB tapped, while 3 copies allow each to function optimally!
This really depends on the deck, for example, Aristocrats comes with natural life gain in the deck, so you can afford running 4 shocks since you likely gain back the lost life at some point. Tokens w/ Auriok Champion or Boros Soul Sisters also don't lose out of running 4 shocks. And if you start with 2 or more check lands in hand and no basics, the drawback of being one turn behind on curve can set you back in some matchups. Alternatively if you are playing 2 color Death's Shadow you put in about every shock you can imagine and don't care about the life loss.
Except for aggro decks. If you're playing an aggro deck, it doesn't matter if you're taking 2 damage a couple times and there's not going to be a late game for you to have to take the 2 damage because you're going to need the land later.
My rule of thumb: Use Shocklands to make sure you can cast any spell in your deck when drawing a fetch. If you are splashing black in a WU deck and your highest color density is BB, you shouldn't really be playing more than two black shocklands to find with your Flooded Strand.
I've been playing 20 shock lands and four city of brass! No wonder why I'm always losing! Just kidding. :P Thanks for the video Mr. Olive. I just changed my old UR Wizards deck for standard, into a modern version of the deck. I am running four Spirebluff Canal which I figured was a no brainer,, and then added four steam vents because I am playing four sulphur falls. Should I still be running four steam vents since I'm running four sulphur falls? I'm not really certain if that's a proper manabase for UR Wizards. Keep in mind though that Scalding Tarn is an absolute no go because of the price. Any advice would help. Thanks, and an early Happy New Year to you!!
I really like using shock lands, in decks with life gain, the loss of life isn't really a big deal. Also, it is often unnecessary to bring them into play untapped.
I play a single g/w shock in humans so I can fetch off of the 1 of flooded strand. I don’t have 4 horizon canopy so I run 1 horizon, 2 razorverge, 1 temple garden.
Although I understand the point of the video, I think that it should also be addressed the fact that what to do if you don't have 10+ fetchlands in the right colors for every modern deck you make. In my case I can barely buy some shocks because now they are in standard. But forget about the fetchlands. What do I do then? Is it ok to shove 12 shocks in a 3 color standard deck? What about modern? My thought is that even the cost is quite high, the cost of getting mana color screwed and have to take turns off is worse. I don't have any statistic though. What do you people think?
If i was playing burn i might run naya burn because atarka's command is strong so really the burn deck would be splash white splash green if you have access to fetches the mana question gets easier but i dont so i would probably run 3 sacred foundry 3 stomping grounds an 1 or 2 temple gardens and flesh out with basics or check lands like rootbound crag and what ever the red white one is because red would be the most important color and white and green are ancillary to that
Actually, this is generally correct. Ponza is dominantly green, so you're usually fetching out basic forests a lot and using Utopia sprawl for your red mana, so playing cinder Glade makes a ton of sense considering how often the deck fetches out basics
I thought, surely seth didnt do this video as he shocks himself for more damage than his opponents generally... but it was by seth. The man that shock fetches for shock lands. I admit you dont do it as much but i recall cringing every time you shocked yourself to 11 by turn 3 every game
Haven’t watched the video yet. Stopped it to write this comment: if you play death shadow, take your crap elsewhere. If you play tron go eat yellow snow hahah. Alright play video haa
It's odd how this guy has written an article in the past telling people to drop tons of money on all the fetchlands and all the shocklands is now telling us we're using too many. Did some revenue dry up since then?
Is this voice real? How did anyone get past the first 20 seconds without tearing their ears off?
6 ปีที่แล้ว
Let's face it - Modern would be a better format if fetches were banned. Not jut because they're overpowered, they require so damn much shuffling. Paper Magic will never be watchable esport with so much damn shuffling. On high REL every fetch means you need to full shuffle, then your opponent needs to full shuffle after you. Add to this pre-game and mulligan shuffles, and a lot of matches will be more shuffling than playing!
Not a problem if you can't afford shocklands ;)
I have half a dozen temple gardens, but no GW decks.
Good point
When your opponent casts blood moon but you can only afford basics :)
Temple garden is only 4.50 currently
Shock lands are cheap. Fetch lands are expensive.
No wonder Modern is a "fast format" pay 1 life for fetch, 2 for shock, then turn one thoughtseize, you start the game with 15 life.
Colheita Sombria
You forgot to cycle Street Wraith
13 life
True haha
@@Nick-sx4nn into second wraith
As a burn player, this is my favorite opening play to see.
My Death's Shadow also liked your turn 1 bolt. Back when the deck was able to race burn 50% of the time :( RIP gitaxian.
Grixis death's shadow says hello.
The obvious exception lul
Still only plays like 5 shocks
Warren yoshizuka-chang yeah but it plays 10 fetches
Grixis Death's Shadow actually only plays four or maybe five shocks :)
@@MTGGoldfish Four or five too many!
That's not true, I play 0 shock lands...
... in my tron list.
1+1+1=7
WOW
@@splatterb0y Urza's quick maths
@@hungdo6397 FUCK
Seth this must be your most informative Brewer's minute I have watched.
rule of thumb: don't run more than 2 of the same shock.
This is a pretty good rule of thumb.
My rule of thumb: Only run enough shocks that any of your fetchs can get you to the necessary mana density to cast your hardest to cast spell. (2UUBB is considered easier than UBB for example)
Follow it and be happy. Until double field of ruin cuts you off of a colour. Then you cry. But that's only applicable if you're playing a deck that can't afford to play a basic for the splash (like burn that doesn't want a plains).
Really glad to have brewers minute back!
:)
Well, UR Storm plays four copies of Steam Vents, for what's fair. I agree it's a exception but it needs to be pointed out that sometimes you do want to play all 4 shocks on your 2 color deck
The thing that makes storm different from a lot of decks is that it has really strange mana requirements. Almost every important card in storm is red, so you need to have a ton of red sources, but all your rituals bar Manamorphose only make red, and you need blue mana for your cantrips and Gifts. Plus, since you're often drawing cards as you combo, you don't know exactly what colour of mana you need when you start your turn.
Well he said "MOST of the time incorrect" not all off the time
Storm doesn't even use fetchlands. That already makes it unique.
@@canismajor1186 Not in all builds, but yes most lists are fetchless because shuffling cards that you scry to the bottom isn't worth the deck thinning. Many storm lists also run the pain lands for the same reason they run all of the shock lands: the life doesn't matter if you plan on winning faster than your opponent anyways.
using fetchlands as deck thining is a mistake, the effect is negligible (you can google the maths). at the end of the day going fetchless means loosing less life for mana fixing. almost any 2-color deck can go fetchless.
I love the video, however you didn't go into much detail on a very important point that was just briefly mentioned. Not everyone has 6-8 fetch lands to play. How does the limitation on fetch lands effect the number of shocks you should run? Obviously you'll end up wanting more, but how many more?
Don't play a 3-color deck if you can't afford fetchlands. Once you're locked on a 2-color deck without fetchlands, take a look at UR Storm manabase. It just plays 4-of of the best 3 dual UR lands it can play, and then fills up with basic lands
He mentions in the video his argument is assuming you do have access to the fetches.
He’s explaining why decks are built not using a full playset.
I wish I could play less fetch lands...
no you dont
i do, budget
I wish fetch lands didn’t exist.
You can always do what I do... That is, to keep your decks two color play four fast lands, four fetch lands (if its in your budget), four check lands, and four shocks, leaving room for however many ghost quarter or field of ruin you want, and the rest basics. I find that if you can get away with using Khans fetches whenever possible, the manabase I described above is usually very good and pretty affordable.
@@user-ng5pg4im5g i do the same but i like to stay away from too many checklands tho. Also they need to reprint blackcleave cliffs
I really love his videos and I watch every single one of it, but I am still continuously dumbfounded how Seth can not just talk like a person.
10 Manabase building tips doctors don't want you to know?!
Love the content you make, Mr Seth. Would love to see a similar video of fetch lands if possible. Happy Holidays everyone!
Thanks for finally doing this. Please do more.
What a shocking discovery
This guide isn't entirely accurate when it comes to three color decks. The decks mentioned (ie Burn and Spirits) play the number of shocks that they do entirely because of the fact that they only need a single mana of that extra color on any given turn. In general with burn you aren't going to play a helix and a boros charm in the same turn because with the right sequencing you dont need to, with spirits you most likely aren't going to cast a noble and a company in the same turn cycle because you don't need to. In a deck like jund and jeskai for example when all three of your colors could be needed in a single turn though you will need more shock lands in order to make your mana better. That's why jund and jeskai plays 5 shocks in almost every build. While I agree 6+ shocks is not needed in most three color decks, more often then not you are most likely running 5 unless your deck only needs a single mana of a third color. It is entirely dependent on how color hungry your deck is and just saying "its a trap to play more then 4" isn't accurate. Every decks mana base is going to be different and those numbers aren't going to be the same as another decks 95% of the time.
Any chance you could make a follow up video talking about how to determine the ratio of fetches that should be run in 3+ color decks?
For most of these decks you also have to be able to afford 10-12 fetch lands, which is why they are more expensive than the 4-6 needed shock lands.
I learned this when playing/upgrading the Jeskai Flying Men deck: Blood Moon and burn were both very popular at the time, so fetchlands were more important additions than shocklands. I ended up playing 3x Flooded Strand, 1x Scalding Tarn, 1x Arid Mesa, 1x of each WRU shockland, and a Prairie Stream. Building a mana base in Modern is a much more complicated process than in Standard or EDH, and it largely depends upon the meta of your LGS.
Something I have been experimenting with is using some of the bicycle lands from Amonket over the second or third shocks. If I'm playing a slower deck and commonly fetching a hollowed fountain or watery grave tapped, then it may as well be a bicycle land and not a shock. Meanwhile, if I flood out, they cycle. The whole point of shocks is to fetch them out, and I usually end up only running 1 anyways, since I'd rather not be open to blood moon (Or choke in blue).
What does he say at 2:33?
*"Land, crack, fetch, take 2, I'm Conley Woods."*
th-cam.com/video/dATWZFoHi6c/w-d-xo.html
@@Niggipoo i dont get the joke still :(
i am a brewer at heart and i have been noticing this problem with my three color decks, so thank you for the advice, also i think its fine to play three or four shocks in two color decks without fetches becuase you are less likely to run into them.
I MISSED BREWERS MINUTE!
What if you don't have fetches, do you play more shocks?
this sounds like an odd request but could you do the same on Fetch Lands?
I use shocks as budget fetch. Is there a better option?
This was a really great video, thankyou very much.
Very informative video for Modern especially considering that balancing mana bases is a hot topic often debated when considering builds. This should give most Modern players an idea of the "skeleton" frame for the Modern manabases, once you've already covered your on-color fetches of course. :)
I play Thunderous Wizards in modern and play 2 steam vents. It’s because I only have 2, but it’s 2.
I’m currently playing 6 shocklands in my janky budgetish Abzan. I have only 2 fetchlands (WG) and 6 checklands.
I also have a bit of lifegain with 4 Siege Rhino, 3 Kitchen Finks, and 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor.
It’s been working out fine, and I would like to know if there is a more optimal landbase I could be using (while still being budget friendly).
What about going fetchless in 2-color decks??
What if you're playing without fetches? For budget reasons. For example, I have 4 Steam Vents and 4 Sulfur Falls in a slightly upgraded version of Eminent Domain, is that too many?
Depends. I think 4-5 shocks should be ran in 3 color decks and 2-4 in 2 color. Fetches will go get your shocks so I think running excessive amounts feels bad. Shocks are very important to start the game with for checklands if your deck so chooses to run them. In UW control I'm only running 2 fountains and I don't regret it the fortresses are doing wonders along with just more basics. Not super weak to Blood Moon.
I play a tempo build of UW spirits. Looking for advice regards to this video. I have always ran the mana base with 4 shocks, and 2 pain lands, because anytime I can't deploy threats or answers due to colour limitations, I feel like I'm losing a ton of tempo, so I try to have as many lands as possible that can offer me either colour. Is this assumption incorrect? I don't run anything higher than a 3 drop in the main, and just a 2 of 4 drop in the board, with no double costed spells. Below is my current mana base. Would love to hear thoughts and opinions on what I should maybe change? Thanks in advance :)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Adarkar Wastes
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Island
1 Plains
You're running too many colorless lands. If you're having mana issues, they are the reason.
Edit: also you don't have enough basics with all of the paths and field of ruins.
I'd recommend 5-6 basics
@@TzHaar-Doug It's not that I run in to mana issues in the traditional sense, sometimes on turn 3/4/5 when I want to cast 2 spells, I find I'll have the incorrect combination to cast them both, while having needed a different combination the previous or next turn. Basics would make it worse. What I am saying is that a higher number of my mana sources throughout a game will be required to tap for both colours at some point. Hope that makes some sense? I can deffo see swapping out the Adarkar wastes potentially for basics, but must of the time they are paying for a generic cost. All the 2 and 3 drops have one generic, plus aether vial. The most common example I run into is on turn 4, flashing in a rattlechains, with 2 different 2 drop options to flash in after, one white, one blue. I feel like I need both colours available on as many lands as possible to be able to play the correct answer at all times. Thanks for the reply thought, much appreciated :)
Edit: If I could afford 2 Cavern of Souls they'd go in for the wastes
3 shocks for most decks in modern 4 tops for anything besides death shadow
Is the Spirits deck really a good example? Three Horizon Canopies argue that they're just as painful as if they were running 4 Temple Gardens.
These aether vile decks really don't want mana flood though. It's worth it for the cycling.
One of the reasons I would love to have Price of Progress in Modern.
Auriorium ikr?
But muh standard
@@drakeconsumerofsoulsandche5761 Best thing they could do is drop that during a single-color matter format (like Theros was)
price is too strong for modern,period.
@@ahunter7563 it's been overdone, but, hollow one and so forth aren't?
That's why I play hardened scales lol. Also mardu pyromancer only plays 3 shocks total most of the time and I play that as well.
I think burn is a bad example as to why you want less shocks. The mirror is really important on that issue. My BW tokens deck has 8 fetches and 4 godless shrines with two Concealed Courtyard. Today I got two additional concealed Courtyard and took out two Godless Shrines. I will test this out. For my 3 color decks I have 5 shocks. One of them is Abzan Rhino Rites so I'm always getting lands and wouldn't be against going down to 4 shocks. I hope you're right Seth.
I started playing 3 shocks in burn when field of ruin was heavily played. Vantage isn't fetchable so if both shocks get hit with field of ruin you can have a hard time finding white mana. It felt like 2 was right pre field of ruin but after rivals of ixalan 2 might not be enough.
so lets say im making a modern budget friendly jund deck. what would the mana base look like?
How about 4 colour deck? Is 7 shocks too many?
I've just rewatched this in 2023, and the part that states that it's wrong to play 4 shocks in modern still holds up. I found one UR list playing 4 shocks, all other 2 colour decks I looked up in the meta run 3 or less.
What about taxes like decks that dont run fetches but do run shocks
Crack a fetch to pull a shocker, just gave my burn opponent a free bolt to my face to fix for 1 mana. Kind of a sketchy play at best. Play some basics boys and girls.
There are decks that ameliorate all of your potential down sides heavy aggro strats that race to the end or decks like deaths shadow or jund where your life total is just another resource
I don’t know if this applies to all 2 colour decks. In bridgevine, you need both red and black at all times, since you have a lot of RR costs, but also need BB to recast gravecrawler over and over, this is why the deck often runs 1 basic land max. And turn 1 you often need R or B, for looting or stitchers, so you always fetch+shock turn 1
I think Bridgevine probably plays three Blood Crypt for that reason.
I always play two colors deck in 60 cards format and three colors in EDH, 60cards deck is really hard to get the perfect mana for three colors
What i've seen usually is this , turn one crack a fetch, and play untap shock land, that's already 3 damages to the face! you just bolted yourself on turn 0. Burn and Landscape decks love seeing this.
I feel the same way about the "fast" lands(or as I betterly call them, the "first" lands, 'cuz U play dem 1st....) A play set of *Copperline Gorge* , *Inspiring Vantage* , *Concealed Courtyard* & all their friends is, and always should be, three(3).
In a "Perfect Draw" scenario where you get all copies of [CARDNAME] in your deck to start the game, getting 4 of a 1st land DOOMS the 4th one to EtB tapped, while 3 copies allow each to function optimally!
Death's Shadow says hi. Y'all ever played 2 5/5's by turn 2?
I'm having trouble parsing what's being said in the clip (especially the end) and the subs don't cover it. Anyone else make it out for me?
I feel that if your in only two colors the check/buddy lands are way better
I run that why in my Ideal deck, the life saved has won me many a game I would have otherwise lost.
This really depends on the deck, for example, Aristocrats comes with natural life gain in the deck, so you can afford running 4 shocks since you likely gain back the lost life at some point. Tokens w/ Auriok Champion or Boros Soul Sisters also don't lose out of running 4 shocks. And if you start with 2 or more check lands in hand and no basics, the drawback of being one turn behind on curve can set you back in some matchups.
Alternatively if you are playing 2 color Death's Shadow you put in about every shock you can imagine and don't care about the life loss.
Or the lands in SOI. I used to run those when I was new and they worked well.
Honestly I think it was a mistake for duals to have basic land types. Yes, up to and including the alpha duals.
Except for aggro decks. If you're playing an aggro deck, it doesn't matter if you're taking 2 damage a couple times and there's not going to be a late game for you to have to take the 2 damage because you're going to need the land later.
My rule of thumb: Use Shocklands to make sure you can cast any spell in your deck when drawing a fetch. If you are splashing black in a WU deck and your highest color density is BB, you shouldn't really be playing more than two black shocklands to find with your Flooded Strand.
I'm a proponent of running less shock lands and slightly more fetches.
just remove all shocklands and add all the fetchlands u can!
I've been playing 20 shock lands and four city of brass! No wonder why I'm always losing!
Just kidding. :P
Thanks for the video Mr. Olive. I just changed my old UR Wizards deck for standard, into a modern version of the deck. I am running four Spirebluff Canal which I figured was a no brainer,, and then added four steam vents because I am playing four sulphur falls. Should I still be running four steam vents since I'm running four sulphur falls? I'm not really certain if that's a proper manabase for UR Wizards. Keep in mind though that Scalding Tarn is an absolute no go because of the price. Any advice would help. Thanks, and an early Happy New Year to you!!
Not a modern player, but quite interesting point to Talk about
I really like using shock lands, in decks with life gain, the loss of life isn't really a big deal. Also, it is often unnecessary to bring them into play untapped.
I play a single g/w shock in humans so I can fetch off of the 1 of flooded strand. I don’t have 4 horizon canopy so I run 1 horizon, 2 razorverge, 1 temple garden.
Although I understand the point of the video, I think that it should also be addressed the fact that what to do if you don't have 10+ fetchlands in the right colors for every modern deck you make. In my case I can barely buy some shocks because now they are in standard. But forget about the fetchlands. What do I do then? Is it ok to shove 12 shocks in a 3 color standard deck? What about modern? My thought is that even the cost is quite high, the cost of getting mana color screwed and have to take turns off is worse. I don't have any statistic though. What do you people think?
Bridgevine plays a ton cause theres a decent chance some of them are gonna get milled over
Battle Lands are underrated and weren’t even mentioned in this video. They’re strictly better than guildgates
If i was playing burn i might run naya burn because atarka's command is strong so really the burn deck would be splash white splash green if you have access to fetches the mana question gets easier but i dont so i would probably run 3 sacred foundry 3 stomping grounds an 1 or 2 temple gardens and flesh out with basics or check lands like rootbound crag and what ever the red white one is because red would be the most important color and white and green are ancillary to that
Agreed. I have 14 shocklands in my tron deck. The worst part? Its eldrazi tron...
But Seth, I'm playing four-color blink...
If you’re playing the storm version without fetches is it correct to play 4 steam vents?
Hello scapeshift here we need to get a high mountain count ergo more stomping grounds
Jokes on you I can't afford shocklands.
i swear the 2 life points is so important. thats why decent cards like 'notion rain' isnt really that great in limited arena.
I like the bfz dual lands. I usually try to play a copy or two in decks with fetches in the ally color pairs.
I play at least 1 in my UW miracles, sometimes 2.
Bogles?
Death shadow says hi.
And I thought I was being budget when I was playing a battle for zendikar slow land in Ponza as my third duel.
Actually, this is generally correct. Ponza is dominantly green, so you're usually fetching out basic forests a lot and using Utopia sprawl for your red mana, so playing cinder Glade makes a ton of sense considering how often the deck fetches out basics
Pardon my noob-ness, what does it mean to 'goldfish' your opponent?
Maybe I could take out 2 stomping ground for another forest and mountain.
So basically, play a ton of fetches so you can always get perfect fixing with your shocks?
Im probably playing The exact amount i need
Another reason for my love of cEDH- 40 life.
Nobody:
My Shockland tribal deck: . . .
I play with plenty of shocklands because I can't afford fetchlands.
Cool
Can't run too many shocklands if you play mono blue illusions with 20 islands.
I thought, surely seth didnt do this video as he shocks himself for more damage than his opponents generally... but it was by seth. The man that shock fetches for shock lands. I admit you dont do it as much but i recall cringing every time you shocked yourself to 11 by turn 3 every game
Shocking you're is a little different than playing shocks, but I think I used to put too many shocks in a lot of my decks as well.
Burn plays 2 shock lands but 10 fetches. :/
for that landfall burn spell
I mean, I play fish so...
Jack Cramer same, except I play martyr life
Conley love ♥
Land, Crack, Fetch, take 2, dead LOL
Burn I will just use basic lands
I heard that some dredge decks are play 3 stomping ground they really should have watched this video
jokes on you i play titanshift
You don't want too many fetches either.
Wait why did I click this? I play 2 shocks... then again I play 9 fetches
Haven’t watched the video yet. Stopped it to write this comment: if you play death shadow, take your crap elsewhere. If you play tron go eat yellow snow hahah. Alright play video haa
It's odd how this guy has written an article in the past telling people to drop tons of money on all the fetchlands and all the shocklands is now telling us we're using too many. Did some revenue dry up since then?
Is this voice real? How did anyone get past the first 20 seconds without tearing their ears off?
Let's face it - Modern would be a better format if fetches were banned. Not jut because they're overpowered, they require so damn much shuffling. Paper Magic will never be watchable esport with so much damn shuffling. On high REL every fetch means you need to full shuffle, then your opponent needs to full shuffle after you. Add to this pre-game and mulligan shuffles, and a lot of matches will be more shuffling than playing!
Do you mean "Modern would be a better place to play Humans and Tron on"? Because that's literally what banning Fetchlands would cause.
@@olmomedina1339 ban fetches , cavern of souls and ixalan land that can add any mana, karn and ugin and its done
My god, his voice...
First time?
This is how he always sounds.
Jay Tomten hahaha yes
Would you like to know how he got these scars?
It’s why I can’t watch the videos.
I know it’s kinda mean but it’s really hard to listen to for me..
Wrong I play shadow