I feel a great deal of "Good Envy" you have managed to create a great value on your product, and specially a flexible approach to customer service, that makes a huge difference when it comes to compete against the larger drone companies! Good luck sir!
Spike, this is an amazing bird! Well done! I think the air brakes are awesome. I cannot wait to see that this thing can do. Your power system is awesome. The black and white scheme looks great. Were you flying without a flight controller in this video? I like to fly my planes manually before adding a flight controller.
Yes Manual mode. I do all flight testing this way. Only way to determine effects of aerodynamic changes and prove stable flight characteristics. Not everyone wants a flight controller either. They are more and more common however. Sorry I’ve been busy lately but welcome discussions.
Any testing data on the new design vs old design? Say your landing approach speed is 25 kts fully loaded. What is the max slope angle you can fly and hold 25kts with power off on new design vs old design? Maybe do a level max speed test of both designs to get an idea of the improvement?
Always great videos. Sorry question here from a novice. If there was enough room would air brakes lifting from the topside wing (like a glider) be more effective to disrupt airflow and lift? I'm assuming the size of these coming from the fuselage is what what's them so effective? Also would would recommend this as a first build from a novice?
Gliders use Spoilers because they are so lightweight for the amount of lift them make, they can afford to sacrifice some lift. They carry no payload,engine, or battery. Some airliners use them in flight but they have warnings that do not allow them to be used below a certain speed. They are usually not used unless the descent rate has to be drastically modified. They are used on landing routinely, but only once the plane has touched down, and the lift is no longer needed. having them on the fuselage sides does not create any pitch stability issues, as flaps do, and in fact improves stability in Yaw at low speeds, which flaps cannot. it's also easier to modify the fuselage bay than to rebuild the wing. Gemini V-2 could be fitted with flaps. It would work, but may be hard to fly for beginners in manual mode. Recommend getting a motor glider trainer, such as a radian first, just to get some mistakes out of the way. Also spending some time in the SIM is helpful for complete novice. Gemini V2 is not hard to fly.
I need to know..how long does this new setup fly with say a 500gram camera payload. Or how long does it fly with just batteries.... Last time i vhecked u guys got 1hr plus flight time ... Any improvements?? I am trying to make one with 2hr + endurance.. Need to choose between electric power and i.c engine power
Hey there everyone! Just put this plane (the one in this video specifically) up for sale on the website. If you see it available on the website, It's still available. First come, first serve. airframe only. www.bearospaceindustries.com/aircraft.html Scroll down all the way on this page to see the listing. Thanks for checking it out!
The airfoil we’re using already has a very high coefficient of lift so flaps would not help create much more lift. Flaps also change the effective angle of incedence of the wing, so tend to create instability in pitch. These type help stabilize the aircraft especially at low speed. Applying a greater angle of attack to an outer wing section can cause a tip stall if the outer section stalls first. We’ve tried split flaps and these work much better. Easier for the pilot, simple and can be quickly retrofited to existing aircraft. Also no external linkages or control horns to cause drag. Slotted flaps would be the only useful option on a slightly thinner wing, but we’d insist on having internal hinges and actuators. Would be very complex, but would actually increase lift.
we have only flown missions up to 130km at slow speed, and with moderate battery pack that allows a large payload. This design is optimized for endurance, not distance, but if flown at 50-55kph, and use a large battery size, over 100 miles should be easily achievable. It's main purpose is to lift weight and keep it airborne for a long time. Also be practical, thus the tricycle fixed gear. eliminating the gear would help a lot too. This has a very thick airfoil and is not really distance optimized.
@@franciscourena5636 Our website has all of the info. Designed it specifically for scratch builders, and a company in Canada developed a high quality laser cut kit. I also have done a few custom builds for people, mostly with custom mods, all with videos about the planes on this channel.
@@franciscourena5636 Working on a prototype specifically for VTOL commercial operations. It will be a purpose built aircraft, however, as opposed to an adaptation of an existing airframe.
Yes, spoilers are very effective, because they kill a large amount of the lift, while causing drag at the same time. They cause the wing to lose lift, great for lightweight sailplanes which have an excess of lift, but not an option for flying high values payloads that are heavy. That's why airliners have them but only use them to kill the lift once the wheels touch the ground. It's all flap before then. The air brakes cause no adverse effects on the stability of the aircraft when deployed like flaps. They actually enhance it.
@@FPVREVIEWS no haha, im sorry but thats incorrect. Airliners use spoiler inflight aswell. The spoilers give more drag when deployed and also decrease the lift, so the aircraft has to increase the lift coefficient to l counteract the decreased lift which results in even more drag. But in your application the air brake makes sense, just like fighter planes, where the wing load is very high.
There are limited ways to increase the coefficient of lift. you can use flaps, such as slotted, or fowler flaps. In that case not much need for spoilers in normal operations on any aircraft. I should clear up that airliners do use flaps, but not in normal operations. They are used for essentially 2 different reasons, and not on approach to land. One reason is to rapidly increase the rate of descent even further, such as if the cabin has lost pressurization, or if the pilot has not planned the descent properly and finds himself too high, needing to dive at a rate where the drag from the airframe is not sufficient to achieve the goal. This is very rare. Another reason is to provide more bleed air for the de-icing system. This comes from the engines, and they may not put out enough bleed air at idle, so need to throttle up a bit to keep the de-icing system working. to offset the thrust, spoilers are used in flight. this is also very rare, and is only done at higher speeds, never on final approach, or anywhere near that IAS. Since there is no emergency descent protocol for unmanned aircraft, and no bleed air or de-icing systems, I don't see the application on a UAV. We usually load the UAV to maximum practical weight during normal operations, (gross) to carry the maximum battery possible to achieve good flight time. We only usually trade that weight for payload, but that puts the plane's weight back to the same gross weight. Only time it's lighter is when we are testing ,and have no reason to carry the extra weight. even then, it's limited in testing, as we want the plane at gross to test most systems. The Autopilot does not know if the airplane is lighter. This may be different for a fuel powered UAV, as it would be lighter when it lands. @@pasifpv5508
you can see their use here, where they are deployed slightly because likely the pilot was too high on approach, but not fully deployed by any means.. They are then fully deployed as soon as the main wheels touch. th-cam.com/video/ZzN8RNzwdOo/w-d-xo.html
Thank you For the vídeo Spike, its very detailed and you show concern about the build, how about you guide me on my new proyect, Im still in TJ and would not mind going to visit you on learning porpuses. I need advice from a pro like you! *Let me know when is a Good time For you.
What's the mAH on that battery? I'm still not convinced it's better than, I'm sure, much cheaper Multistar pack that is also, more than likely, significantly lighter.
The gravemetric energy density of these cells is greater than all other battery types that are commercially available at this time. They can also last for thousands of cycles if taken reasonable care of, can be safely discharged to 2.5Vper cell and have excellent cross ventilation. The amp output is not bad either and represents an almost double improvement over the previous generation of li ion cells. You can compare them by checking out the data sheet. They can also be configured in many different voltages and form factors. We’ve flown over 4 hours using them, and commercial multi rotors use them to fly for up to 2 hours. Same cells as used by Tesla.
Great, Let's do a DIRECT COMPARISON: these are the specs for multistar: Minimum Capacity: 16000mAh Configuration: 6S2P / 22.2V / 6Cell Pack Weight: 1920g Our battery is 35000mah also 6S, so 2 of the multistar packs would still not match it in terms of capacity. Our pack weighs 3016 grams. 2 of the multistar packs would weigh 3840grams. that's not including the weight of the Y harness that you would need to parallel them to run both. So if you want add 824 grams to your model? And still not match the capacity? SO, how about cost: The Multistar pack cost 184.59 USD on the Hobby king website. (I just looked a few minutes ago) so two of them, that do not even equal the capacity of our battery, would cost 369.18 USD. shipping not included. our pack cost 5.75 per cell at this listing with free shipping, very typical of current pricing: www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-Panasonic-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-Lithium-Battery-3500-mAh-10A-18650-cells/382690200321?hash=item591a1d0b01:g:acYAAOSw7OdcH7oo so 60 cells at that price cost: 345 USD. granted, still need to buy cell holders, tabs, leads, and connector. Let's be generous, and say they cost 20 USD. That brings the price to 365 USD. still cheaper than the Multistar, more capacity than the multistar ones we compared them to, no need for a Y connector, better cross ventilation for proper cell cooling, no worries about discharging past 3V, as they can be discharged safely to 2.5V per cell, will last for hundreds of cycles even if used hard, Thousands if taken care of somewhat. They are also tough, being individually encased in steel/ the pack encased in Rigid brick cell holders. So cheaper, more capacity, and nearly a kilo lighter... What's not to like? @@helloman1976
@@FPVREVIEWS Yes, as long as they do what they say they will that all seems true. Are these also protected cells? If so, does that mean each cell also has a "BMS" of sorts? That is, protection from over charging and over discharging?
Not sure why you would want "Protection" when the charger balances, and provides all of those things. Unlike Lipos, the battery is not ruined if it runs low, as the Datasheet shows, and i have already mentioned. These cells can safely discharge down to 2.5v per cell. any serious long endurance aircraft will be telemetry equipped, so you have hours to monitor the voltage in flight, and if it uses any decent flight controller, you can program it to RTH, or Autoland when voltage gets to a certain point. you can also program it to do it during an auto mission, aborting the mission, and doing a RTH at that time. Multistar batteries have zero protection, and if they drop below about 3v, they have irreparable damage. No reason to have it anyway, with so much protection on both sides, the charge, and the discharge. "Protection" in this case aid just another point of failure. and the failure rate of the protection devices is many times higher than that of the cells themselves. Companies like Sanyo and panasonic sell these cells to major companies, like Tesla and HP. If they lied about their characteristics, there would be multi billion dollar lawsuits,. Plenty of people on youtube testing them to see if the specs are true. We test every batch, not because we don't believe the data sheet, but to make sure the cells are genuine. What kind of guarantee does the company manufacturing cells for hobby king give? Hobbyking products are notoriously bad quality. event the foam board kings over at flitetest won't work with them over their lies, bad products and ethical issues. We have literally demonstrated 4+hr flight times with the previous generation of cells, and the new ones are much better in terms of discharge rate. @@helloman1976
Nice improvements Spike! Your plane is more tempting than ever...
I feel a great deal of "Good Envy" you have managed to create a great value on your product, and specially a flexible approach to customer service, that makes a huge difference when it comes to compete against the larger drone companies! Good luck sir!
Spike, this is an amazing bird! Well done! I think the air brakes are awesome. I cannot wait to see that this thing can do. Your power system is awesome. The black and white scheme looks great. Were you flying without a flight controller in this video? I like to fly my planes manually before adding a flight controller.
Yes
Manual mode.
I do all flight testing this way. Only way to determine effects of aerodynamic changes and prove stable flight characteristics.
Not everyone wants a flight controller either.
They are more and more common however.
Sorry I’ve been busy lately but welcome discussions.
Wow! As always, that's impressive! Well done, Spike!
Excerlent well done young man very helpful thankyou. 👍👍👍💯💯💯
Any testing data on the new design vs old design? Say your landing approach speed is 25 kts fully loaded. What is the max slope angle you can fly and hold 25kts with power off on new design vs old design? Maybe do a level max speed test of both designs to get an idea of the improvement?
Always great videos. Sorry question here from a novice. If there was enough room would air brakes lifting from the topside wing (like a glider) be more effective to disrupt airflow and lift? I'm assuming the size of these coming from the fuselage is what what's them so effective?
Also would would recommend this as a first build from a novice?
Gliders use Spoilers because they are so lightweight for the amount of lift them make, they can afford to sacrifice some lift. They carry no payload,engine, or battery. Some airliners use them in flight but they have warnings that do not allow them to be used below a certain speed. They are usually not used unless the descent rate has to be drastically modified. They are used on landing routinely, but only once the plane has touched down, and the lift is no longer needed. having them on the fuselage sides does not create any pitch stability issues, as flaps do, and in fact improves stability in Yaw at low speeds, which flaps cannot. it's also easier to modify the fuselage bay than to rebuild the wing. Gemini V-2 could be fitted with flaps. It would work, but may be hard to fly for beginners in manual mode.
Recommend getting a motor glider trainer, such as a radian first, just to get some mistakes out of the way. Also spending some time in the SIM is helpful for complete novice. Gemini V2 is not hard to fly.
brakes in MIG-15 :))
exactly. very effective. Stable when deployed.
Beautiful plane
Would using side slip to slow the aircraft be a way to decrease complexity and weight of the airbrakes?
Yes, it would work, and does help, but this aircraft has such a good glide ratio, that it does not do as much as I would like.
Geez what a plane! Nice
I need to know..how long does this new setup fly with say a 500gram camera payload.
Or how long does it fly with just batteries....
Last time i vhecked u guys got 1hr plus flight time ...
Any improvements??
I am trying to make one with 2hr + endurance..
Need to choose between electric power and i.c engine power
Hey there everyone! Just put this plane (the one in this video specifically) up for sale on the website. If you see it available on the website, It's still available. First come, first serve. airframe only.
www.bearospaceindustries.com/aircraft.html
Scroll down all the way on this page to see the listing.
Thanks for checking it out!
What about just having nice big flaps? Split ones on the inner portion and normal ones out to the aileron.
The airfoil we’re using already has a very high coefficient of lift so flaps would not help create much more lift. Flaps also change the effective angle of incedence of the wing, so tend to create instability in pitch.
These type help stabilize the aircraft especially at low speed.
Applying a greater angle of attack to an outer wing section can cause a tip stall if the outer section stalls first. We’ve tried split flaps and these work much better. Easier for the pilot, simple and can be quickly retrofited to existing aircraft. Also no external linkages or control horns to cause drag.
Slotted flaps would be the only useful option on a slightly thinner wing, but we’d insist on having internal hinges and actuators. Would be very complex, but would actually increase lift.
Can it fly 100 miles like my twindream FPV?
we have only flown missions up to 130km at slow speed, and with moderate battery pack that allows a large payload.
This design is optimized for endurance, not distance, but if flown at 50-55kph, and use a large battery size, over 100 miles should be easily achievable. It's main purpose is to lift weight and keep it airborne for a long time. Also be practical, thus the tricycle fixed gear. eliminating the gear would help a lot too. This has a very thick airfoil and is not really distance optimized.
@@FPVREVIEWS
Thanks for answering my question
How much does it cost?
Where can I get it?
@@franciscourena5636 Our website has all of the info.
Designed it specifically for scratch builders, and a company in Canada developed a high quality laser cut kit.
I also have done a few custom builds for people, mostly with custom mods, all with videos about the planes on this channel.
@@FPVREVIEWS
I can make a request for a custom built
But can I request vertical take off?
@@franciscourena5636 Working on a prototype specifically for VTOL commercial operations. It will be a purpose built aircraft, however, as opposed to an adaptation of an existing airframe.
What effect would suicide doors have?
Would destabilize the yaw axis.
Suicidal.
Why didn't you use wing spoilers? Much more effective
Yes, spoilers are very effective, because they kill a large amount of the lift, while causing drag at the same time. They cause the wing to lose lift, great for lightweight sailplanes which have an excess of lift, but not an option for flying high values payloads that are heavy. That's why airliners have them but only use them to kill the lift once the wheels touch the ground. It's all flap before then. The air brakes cause no adverse effects on the stability of the aircraft when deployed like flaps. They actually enhance it.
@@FPVREVIEWS no haha, im sorry but thats incorrect. Airliners use spoiler inflight aswell. The spoilers give more drag when deployed and also decrease the lift, so the aircraft has to increase the lift coefficient to l counteract the decreased lift which results in even more drag. But in your application the air brake makes sense, just like fighter planes, where the wing load is very high.
There are limited ways to increase the coefficient of lift. you can use flaps, such as slotted, or fowler flaps. In that case not much need for spoilers in normal operations on any aircraft. I should clear up that airliners do use flaps, but not in normal operations. They are used for essentially 2 different reasons, and not on approach to land. One reason is to rapidly increase the rate of descent even further, such as if the cabin has lost pressurization, or if the pilot has not planned the descent properly and finds himself too high, needing to dive at a rate where the drag from the airframe is not sufficient to achieve the goal. This is very rare. Another reason is to provide more bleed air for the de-icing system. This comes from the engines, and they may not put out enough bleed air at idle, so need to throttle up a bit to keep the de-icing system working. to offset the thrust, spoilers are used in flight. this is also very rare, and is only done at higher speeds, never on final approach, or anywhere near that IAS. Since there is no emergency descent protocol for unmanned aircraft, and no bleed air or de-icing systems, I don't see the application on a UAV. We usually load the UAV to maximum practical weight during normal operations, (gross) to carry the maximum battery possible to achieve good flight time. We only usually trade that weight for payload, but that puts the plane's weight back to the same gross weight. Only time it's lighter is when we are testing ,and have no reason to carry the extra weight. even then, it's limited in testing, as we want the plane at gross to test most systems. The Autopilot does not know if the airplane is lighter.
This may be different for a fuel powered UAV, as it would be lighter when it lands. @@pasifpv5508
you can see their use here, where they are deployed slightly because likely the pilot was too high on approach, but not fully deployed by any means..
They are then fully deployed as soon as the main wheels touch.
th-cam.com/video/ZzN8RNzwdOo/w-d-xo.html
@@FPVREVIEWS thanks for the info but im all familiar with this. In fact im an commercial pilot myself.
Thank you For the vídeo Spike, its very detailed and you show concern about the build, how about you guide me on my new proyect, Im still in TJ and would not mind going to visit you on learning porpuses. I need advice from a pro like you!
*Let me know when is a Good time For you.
What exactly is the project you're working on?
@@FPVREVIEWS its an UAV as well but with a few more accesories needed For an specific market target!
What kind of accessories? you mean sensor? @@aleztj
@@FPVREVIEWS among other things yes!, i really need some help and i would apreciated very-very much.
What kind of help so you need? among what other things? @@aleztj
Do you have any drawings for this plan
Yes, here:
www.bearospaceindustries.com/aircraft.html
"Handsome"
What's the mAH on that battery? I'm still not convinced it's better than, I'm sure, much cheaper Multistar pack that is also, more than likely, significantly lighter.
The gravemetric energy density of these cells is greater than all other battery types that are commercially available at this time.
They can also last for thousands of cycles if taken reasonable care of, can be safely discharged to 2.5Vper cell and have excellent cross ventilation. The amp output is not bad either and represents an almost double improvement over the previous generation of li ion cells. You can compare them by checking out the data sheet. They can also be configured in many different voltages and form factors.
We’ve flown over 4 hours using them, and commercial multi rotors use them to fly for up to 2 hours.
Same cells as used by Tesla.
@@FPVREVIEWS They're heavy and expensive compared to just about everything else out there that you'd compare these to. I took a look, they're OK.
Great, Let's do a DIRECT COMPARISON:
these are the specs for multistar:
Minimum Capacity: 16000mAh
Configuration: 6S2P / 22.2V / 6Cell
Pack Weight: 1920g
Our battery is 35000mah also 6S, so 2 of the multistar packs would still not match it in terms of capacity. Our pack weighs 3016 grams. 2 of the multistar packs would weigh 3840grams. that's not including the weight of the Y harness that you would need to parallel them to run both.
So if you want add 824 grams to your model? And still not match the capacity?
SO, how about cost:
The Multistar pack cost 184.59 USD on the Hobby king website. (I just looked a few minutes ago)
so two of them, that do not even equal the capacity of our battery, would cost 369.18 USD. shipping not included.
our pack cost 5.75 per cell at this listing with free shipping, very typical of current pricing:
www.ebay.com/itm/100pcs-Panasonic-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-Lithium-Battery-3500-mAh-10A-18650-cells/382690200321?hash=item591a1d0b01:g:acYAAOSw7OdcH7oo
so 60 cells at that price cost: 345 USD.
granted, still need to buy cell holders, tabs, leads, and connector. Let's be generous, and say they cost 20 USD. That brings the price to 365 USD. still cheaper than the Multistar, more capacity than the multistar ones we compared them to, no need for a Y connector, better cross ventilation for proper cell cooling, no worries about discharging past 3V, as they can be discharged safely to 2.5V per cell, will last for hundreds of cycles even if used hard, Thousands if taken care of somewhat.
They are also tough, being individually encased in steel/ the pack encased in Rigid brick cell holders.
So cheaper, more capacity, and nearly a kilo lighter... What's not to like?
@@helloman1976
@@FPVREVIEWS Yes, as long as they do what they say they will that all seems true. Are these also protected cells? If so, does that mean each cell also has a "BMS" of sorts? That is, protection from over charging and over discharging?
Not sure why you would want "Protection" when the charger balances, and provides all of those things.
Unlike Lipos, the battery is not ruined if it runs low, as the Datasheet shows, and i have already mentioned. These cells can safely discharge down to 2.5v per cell. any serious long endurance aircraft will be telemetry equipped, so you have hours to monitor the voltage in flight, and if it uses any decent flight controller, you can program it to RTH, or Autoland when voltage gets to a certain point. you can also program it to do it during an auto mission, aborting the mission, and doing a RTH at that time.
Multistar batteries have zero protection, and if they drop below about 3v, they have irreparable damage.
No reason to have it anyway, with so much protection on both sides, the charge, and the discharge.
"Protection" in this case aid just another point of failure. and the failure rate of the protection devices is many times higher than that of the cells themselves.
Companies like Sanyo and panasonic sell these cells to major companies, like Tesla and HP. If they lied about their characteristics, there would be multi billion dollar lawsuits,. Plenty of people on youtube testing them to see if the specs are true. We test every batch, not because we don't believe the data sheet, but to make sure the cells are genuine.
What kind of guarantee does the company manufacturing cells for hobby king give? Hobbyking products are notoriously bad quality. event the foam board kings over at flitetest won't work with them over their lies, bad products and ethical issues.
We have literally demonstrated 4+hr flight times with the previous generation of cells, and the new ones are much better in terms of discharge rate.
@@helloman1976
Ha ha. Do a runup with the air brakes deployed and then stow them just before takeoff.
We’d love to add wheel brakes too!