The RWC was meant for the Springboks. How they survived the French, English and All Blacks its mind boggling. Just when you thought their opponents will take advantage of their mistakes, they did not. I guess it was a game of mental strength and resilience. Well done the Boks.
They had some help against France and a lot of help against New Zealand. Not to mention that scrum that was penalised against England in the semi final which many, including the greatest referee Nigel Owens, believe shouldn't have been given. I'm honestly suspicious that there's something dodgy going on behind the scenes with South Africa and rugby. 2007 England were robbed by being denied a clear try in the final... Officiating in rugby is usually among the best of any sport until it comes to South Africa games in World Cups
RWC Top 6 v Top 6 Scotland played 2 won 0 England played 1 won 0 France played 2 won 1 Ireland played 3 won 2 New Zealand played 3 won 1 Springboks played 5 won 4 The above stats alone showcase how tough the springboks route to winning the RWC was. An incredible effort and deserved champions.
What it really shows is the rules and interpretation of the rules suit the boks game to absolute perfection. Hence why they've won two on the trot. They really didnt play that great in this tournament or the final either.
I look to 80min great play match after match, and yes there are many boks but Bongi had no sub’s during 4 serious games. He gave it all. And so did the rest of the team but they did get sub’s and I don’t think any player plays 80 during the last 4 RWC Matches.
@@larrymeyer2917 4 serious games? He only had no sub in the semi final, and played almost the whole game against quarterfinal against France (75 minutes). He didn’t play against Tonga, he was subbed against Ireland in the 64th minute, played 40 minutes only against Romania, and less than half a game against Scotland. And just 2 minutes in the final.
SA losing their hooker in the 3rd minute no thanks to Shannon Frizell was a major setback. The replacement wasn’t a regular hooker. They were also down two players separately for 10 minutes each in the second half, effectively reducing their strength to fourteen men for almost 20 minutes collectively, leaving the team having to adjust on the spot with no break to plan anything or consult with coaches. On top of that, they had just played two big games with top tier opponents within a week of each other and of the finals. I think they did an exceptional job under adversity and tremendous pressure. They well and truly deserve that win. True champions that really got tested being the only team to play all five of the other top six teams. They somehow managed to get back on top against England too even though, in my opinion, the referee killed the game for them from the get go. Funny thing is when SA lost to Ireland in the pool games because of missed kicks, they were subject to all sorts of criticism. But when the AB lose because of all their missed kicks, they are praised and apparently, deserved to win. Equally strange is that when a team loses by one point, people say they deserve to win but when a team wins by one point they somehow don’t. Very strange world this is.
Thanks guys, by far the best analysis I have seen. Just one thing: There is a massive misconception around Barnes and Savea's penalty. He did NOT say "I saw the replay and realised I made a mistake". Exactly the opposite happened: His exact words were: "I DID NOT see the replay", meaning he was not looking at the screen when the replay was on. Then he said: "I did not see you release enough", meaning that he interpreted the play as a penalty against Savea for not allowing the tackler to place the ball. Point being, it is not that he did not realise a mistake was made and refused to reverse it. He interpreted it his way and did not see the replay so he could not change his mind.
Exactly. A narrative is being pushed that didn't happen. Secondly the TMOs had a directive from WR, let's not act like we don't know they are supposed to look for infringements. That was a knock on period.
Exactly. Don't be a MAGA-Trump fool and spin the Big Lie Barnes ostensibly apologized for his "mistake" . Barnes believed he did not, and were apologetic in conveying his CONTRARY opinion to the questioning All Black player. Barnes might as well said "Bugger off" to be far clearer, but then we will another different discussion about Barnes' rudeness now, wont we?
@mthunziphakathi4215 Then call the knock on when it happens. The only reason play was brought back was because a try was scored. If NZ instead get a 5m lineout from the play instead of a try, which has a high probabliilty of a try, the play isn't brought back. Or even if they get a penalty from it, its not brought back. The refereeing decision is only made as a result of the outcome, not as a result of the infringement, which is why the "2 phase rule" is there IMO. Also where is the compensation for the 2-3 minutes of game time that was lost? In theory nothing happened but the clocked moved forward. I'm happy to go back but why does the clock not reset to the time of the infringment. NZ would have loved another 2-3 mins to try and get those final points.
One of the best down the middle discussions i had heard about the final. This has been one of the best Pods that I followed during the tournament. They finally said something that I had been waiting for. They had their chances, even with the card, missed calls and what not, the ABs had their chances, and they did not take it. The Boks, took every chance they got, and won the scoreboard, and won the game. Plain and simple as that. This was a final where both teams went at this hammer and tongs, and it was a game of moments. Both teams can be proud, it was titanic.
I disagree - I was quite disappointed by the chat. They are always so fair in their views, but I am telling you now if it was 12-11 to NZ this whole discussion is completely different. It is sad to see this trend continuing ... Same in France vs Boks and Eng vs Boks. Parson's is visibly rattled. Yes, it hurts, but you have to acknowledge the opposition.
I’m still gutted 😢 No matter the controversy. New Zealand missed 2 kicks that could’ve won the game. Extremely proud of the NZ effort. They were in a position to win regardless the adversity. Congrats South Africa. If it’s not us, I’m happy, you are the winners. Keep it in the South.
@@PieterErasmus-bm3msAre you kidding.That TMO guy wouldn’t allowed try if was forward. That TMO guy had thousand cameras at different angles.He crucified the All Blacks. TMO guy Tom Foley was the man of the match.End of story!!
4 more years.. We had our chances , missed kicks, turning down points and the red card didn’t help us! + Boks defence still world class as ever ! Congratulations SA 🎉
@@mungoblizzard6114 thanks mate yeah ABs had their chances and didnt use them wisely i kept shouting kick for posts our defense is too powerful and they kept going side lines ..if they took those kicks they wouldve won
For years and years and years we have had the wrong sides of decisions in these big games (Eg Bryce Lawrence 2011 WC), Bismarck du Plessis tackle on Dan Carter being ruled a yellow card etc, etc etc. For ONCE, we get the rub of the green in so-called 50/50 decisions. It just happened to be on the big stage. So we will take it this time!😀
@@toymc51 that’s called class mate. You could argue they were not the best team in the tournament and the recent awards seems to point to that but champions always find a way to win. Take the red card away and the bokke dont go for the numerous kicks and drops…no matter what they found a way to win. Go watch that game again and remind yourself South Africa now has 4 trophies and are finally proven as the best rugby nation on the planet! GO BOKKE YOU BEAUTIES !!!!!
I completely understand the frustrations of the AB supporters and my heart goes out to them because if it was us losing by one point I would have been just as gutted and probably would have had a lot to say about some of the ref calls. However what I don’t agree with is fans coming in and attacking players and saying the boks didn’t deserve the win. The players can’t control the refs or TMO and each and everyone puts there heart and soul in to those matches on both sides. The All blacks and springboks both deserved to win it, and as a Bok supporter I really thought we were going to lose it in the last 15 but the boys found a way. Win or lose I have immense respect for both teams and if any fan has any kind of respect or deep appreciation for rugby you would only have to look at the interaction between Kolisi and Ardie after the game to feel the right way about rugby. Hats off to All blacks, to me you will always be the team to beat. May the rivalry always continue and respect never die 🫡🇿🇦
I have been Following Jacques Nienaber since 2005 at the Cheetahs. The guy in my opinion has been the best defense coach for almost two decades. At Cheetahs, Stormers, Boks 2011, Munster, Boks again, he always improves every team's defense to a world class level. Leinster will be very lucky to have him. If he can have an assistant coach with a good attacking pedigree, Leinster will be very hard to stop.
@@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lb I think Swys is done with coaching. He has some stress related conditions. I also believe the next coach will come from within the current setup. I agree with you on Ackerman. Hopefully they rope him in as part of the new coaching team and groom him over the next 4 years to become Springbok coach.
@@RikiLouw69 Johan Ackerman's run with the Golden Lions in Super Rugby from 2016 until he left was phenomenal. He came very close to winning it to but came up against an amazing Crusaders side. He'd be an amazing Springboks coach.
@@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lbDayne defense coach. Swys will go in as adviser as his previous position Ackerman is out sorry. Dan or Deon will get head coach even maybe sticks
World Rugby were never gonna give us Player of the year and coach of the year on top of winning back to back titles. But I cant complain with Ardie. He has been colossal for the ABs. I think Nienaber can feel hard done by. I think he is a better coach than Andy and when it mattered most he showed his quality.
South African here so I have skin in the game but… just based on the tactic of the bomb squad and bringing on players to close the game, it’s difficult to compare (awesome) players who play 45 to 50 minutes a game to equally awesome players who play the full 80 week in and week out. The 80 minute players should get the nod over the 50 minute players. Jacques N always said it’s about the squad and depth and so it was and the cup was won by rotating players but it came at the cost of prizes and awards for individual players. Eben was reported to have said that if you want individual glory go play tennis or golf
Stop whinging pal. SA are World Champs be happy with that. The International Rugby season diddnt start on Sep 8th it started in Feb. Its team/coach of the year not team of the World Cup. Ireland lost 1 game all year Boks lost 2. Farrell deserved COTY
The springboks have been innovators of the game of rugby for ages. When they do things consistently it is considered boring and must be changed. The irony is mindboggling
3 years ago Rassie called out refs inconsistencies and bad calls (and got lambasted for it). Then he spent the last year and half reaching out to Nigel Owen’s on how to respect refs, Siya at every press conference spoke about respecting the ref, etc. And in every game SA won by 1 point not one shocker call went against SA , and they got at least even treatment, if not the slight rub of the green on the 50/50 calls. Rassie deserves world PR expert of the year award. I don’t for one second believe we win all 3 of those games without first putting refs on notice, and then rebuilding the relationship with refs
You guys are the personification of why the Springboks/ ABs rivalry is so special. Respect, admiration, facts. Have loved every episode during the World Cup. Your comments about your team and Sam Cane are spot on. A class act. Thanks, from a proud Saffer.
For years and years and years we have had the wrong sides of decisions in these big games (Eg Bryce Lawrence 2011 WC), Bismarck du Plessis tackle on Dan Carter being ruled a yellow card etc, etc etc. For ONCE, we get the rub of the green in so-called 50/50 decisions. It just happened to be on the biggest stage. So we will take it this time!😀
Bok supporter here. It's a big privilege to face the haka on any match day, but it is a thing of beauty in a world cup final. We're actually playing New Zealand! Almost thirty years later and it still chokes me the hell up. Always very special. Kane's red card was harsh, and moments such as when the little kick from Faf down the line got caught almost gave me a heart attack. This match had many moments of that class of brilliance and drama. Huge respect to Mr Foster for taking the team from being harshly described as worst ever to a real contender in the final with a loss by the slimmest of margins. Can't write about the Boks yet, bit too emotional. Huge respect to the ABs, can't wait for you glorious, clinical bastards with your spooky ball skills to come and try to take the cup back next time! Loved your coverage of the World Cup, thank you very much. Ps. Would have absolutely loved Argentina to have beaten the English!
This was such a great final. Two southern hemisphere teams in the final was epic. As a South African, I'm going to miss this show. We have great respect and friendship for New Zealand.
@gaweedwen Yes I call that a great game! 15 v 14 is unfortunate but that galvanised the AB's, they showed grit and that's why it was a great game, not many teams with 14 players on the park can play that well like the AB did and also score while 1 man down. As much as the Boks won, lets not take that effort away from the AB. You got to give the ABs more credit buddy!
Scrum at the end - AB's pushed too early. Exactly the same happened in the SA/Ireland game, Murray milked it and Ireland actually got a penalty which they converted. Experienced scrumhalves are smart in those situations.
Siya is so right in what the Boks represent to South Africa and how that is a motivator for never giving up. Morning tv coverage is focused on the team landing around 10.30 am. Fans arrived at the terminal before 7 am, shots of the plane flight path are intercut with asking people who is the star - no one can list less than 4 names. Also asking what they represent to us as a nation and how they are a template for the country. Adding to the day is the fact that it is snowing - breaking the early summer heat wave. And the president has declared a public holiday on 15 th December to celebrate the cup and the hope the Boks stand for.
As a South African, I am extremely happy we have won the world cup back-to-back, but I am also extremely sad and heart-broken. This is truly an end of an era for our current squad. From Siya being our first black captain, who reminds me of Mandela, to Faf with his long blonde hair and jack-russell-terrier-like tenacity; this team just oozies character and diversity like no other. The heart wrenching journey they have been through; fending off France, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against England, holding-off the All Blacks with shear grit; it’s like their legacy was written in the stars... Even though, their performance had been questionable, fate wouldn't allow them to lose... Life in South Arica is really tough, back in 2019 the Springboks won us over by giving us hope, but now they've just plainly made us fall in love with them. Many of them are already in their 30s and will probably not be in the next world cup squad; Jacques Nienaber is moving on, so is Felix Jones; I'm sure other staff will follow cos they've all become high commodity now, which SA's economy can't afford to compete and keep... This bio-epic has come full-circle, it is at its end and that breaks my heart... What a team, what a story!
What a great chat! Y'all were very objective. Good on you! My argument for Nienaber getting Coach vs Farrell is entirely that Farrell went into this year cycle with the "best" team and coached them to the quarter finals in a RWC year which is the objective of the year. Nienaber took a side that wasn't the "best" (1 player in the World XV), and coached them through the toughest route possible to lift the trophy. Springboks showed the expansive rugby vs Romania and Tonga. They showed the game-management and territory rugby vs Ireland (lost because of 5 missed kicks :/) and Scotland. They played the frenetic running rugby vs France. They played the ugly, clawing rugby vs England. Then they played the smothering rugby against the All Blacks (who were phenomenal, and eliminated the downside of only having 14 men by attacking constantly - Good Lord, ABs are great!)
Best Team won - AB's had a serious "Brain fart". Forgot they were in a Final. If they had kicked their early penalties the result may have been different - were over confident in their Try scoring abilities born out of a number of easy opponents in earlier rounds who they took pleasure in scoring some incredible tries against. Bok's had a game plan for the Final - and executed. Losing Bongi was huge - their ability to take this in their stride and move on was incredible.
Were you guys also frustrated by decisions that went against the Boks? If your opposition conceded 10 penalties and only had 38% of possession and territory, and you missed 5 points at goals, you really only got yourself to blame. Also, if Siya made one pass after half time, the game could have been buried.
@@KiloPage777 it is stupid why would you be concerned if your opposition are frustrated with decisions that are being made it makes no difference to what your trying to do.
@@Stephen-bq4nq It makes the world of difference. Don't be an idiot. If you are a pundit, it is expected from you to be impartial and unbiased. If NZ won, then there would have been no complaints. NZ wants open flowing rugby, because it suits them. We saw after the 35-7 result as well. Just whinging, whinging, whinging. When you are a pundit, it is expected from you to have an objective opinion.
The best game in the world cup that showed the world that the Springboks can attack when needed was the France and South Africa game.The Romania game also showed That the Springboks can run a ball down the line well.Congrats to the Springbok Fan group well done Supporting our team.
I pointed out after Argentina we could lose because of not taking converting our penalties and taking points on offer, and that exactly what happened. Big respect to Springbok, they brought it to us and after the games they had to get through, outstanding to win WRC
Nobody talks about the wrong call made prior to the Barret try. A penalty was awarded to NZ for Fourie making a strip with his knees on the ground during a line out mall. Another line out followed resulting in the try. A replay showed Fourie was on both feet, and Kolbe was on his knees adjacent, but he did not play the ball. Bitch about that for 10 or 15 minutes!
Nobody looks at the bad calls that go against the winning team. We've been guilty of that in the past... but for a good few years now, SA fans have been saying that poor officiating is ruining the game, and the world told us to shut up and stop whinging. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot and they don't like it. Maybe now something will be done about it. But probably not, at least not until things change in World Rugby management.
Your interpretation of what happenec is wrong. The ball carrier (I believe Savea) had a knee on tbe ground, at which point the tacklers have to release, but Fourie ripped the ball. The correct call was made. The point is that the TMO made the right calls, some went for us, some went for the Kiwis.
@@rothnieoosthuizen3728 You are correct saying some calls went for SA and some for NZ - that is what I am trying to illustrate. The whining goes on and on about the wrong calls against NZ, but no mention of the calls against SA. In this situation the ref called "tackle" the moment Savea's knees hit the ground. That was the moment he should have placed the ball. Fourie was never involved in the tackle. A player not upright, or on his feet is not allowed to play the ball. Savea was supposed to release the ball the moment the ref called "tackle". He was holding on, because had he placed it in terms of the rules, there was no way NZ could recycle the ball. Strictly speaking the penalty should have been awarded to SA.
@@battievandermerwe9121 I just went back and had another look at the incident. Sorry, but no, you are wrong. Fourie was wrestling for the ball before Savea's knee went down, he was clearly part of the tackle. The TMO made the right call. I get the broader point you are trying to make, but your incorrect recollection/interpretation of the incident detracts from it and plays into the "whiners" hands.
Difficult to imagine how Jacques was not coach of the year….he has taken the game to a whole new level…set so many new standards…and the Springbok team love him….
People also forget that the Springboks won the British and Irish lions series whilst the AB did not ...only drew 🤔...so going by that... this Springboks team is special.
No, Sir, Wayne Barnes did not admit that he gave the wrong call, his words were: “Sorry, Ardie, that’s how I see it.” At that moment I thought that those were one of the grey areas of interpretation between North and South. Congrats to a magnificent All Black team!
So on the TMO, basically what these guys are saying is that the TMO should have intervened when the decisions went against the ABs but they should not have, under the guise of the flow of the game, when it went for the ABs.
I think the Sam Cane Red card was too harsh, but I think the AB's got the Beauden Barret try with the rub of the green - because the ball did go forward out of Telea's hand when he knocked it on with the "pass" to Barret.
I agree with you, Cane card was harsh, world cup final some common sense should have been used, ABs should have won the game, just like France and England. I love watching the ABs play rugby.
I dont think it went forward to me it was passed just enough back from the hands but it bounced off the ground forward which is irrelevant because thats the momentum the player was carrying which is allowed for in the rules.
@@llewellynlamb9545 Read the rules. It doesnt matter how the ball bounces on the ground (from a LEGAL pass) and the momentum of the player after he released the ball shows he probably went over a meter before the ball even touched the ground. Thats momentum and the shape of the ball hitting the ground. Completely irrelevant to the pass. The pass only has to be going backwards from the hands thats it. All that matters is the ball goes backwards from the hands and it clearly did.
Wayne Barnes DID NOT APOLOGISE..he said to Ardie, who was insisting he'd released,"sorry, I didnt see it that way" he stood firm on his decision...stop with the copium
Thanks guys for your always balanced reviews on the games during the RWC, especially on the final when other pundits weren't so dignified. NZ will always be our greatest rivals. Go Bokke 🇿🇦
Thank you guys ....love this show, so good to see different perspectives .....true rugby banter and huge respect for NZ rugby.......from JHB South Africa
Loved to listen to you guys. Strong opinions. I want the correct calls for and against. If it means tmo has to help a ref, so be it. I would like someone to talk about the AB try. In my opinion, that ball went forward. There was no backward movement to justify a drift ball, and it definitely landed in front of his hands since the ball left his hands.
Prior to 1995, when the Springboks were not included in the rugby “world” cup, we always claimed : ‘ you cannot claim yourself to be WORLD champions, until you have beaten the Soringboks.’ Perhaps you will finally understand why we made such claims.
Great conversation thanks guys. Just a comment on the tmo. If he had nothing to report we probably would not have heard from him. In the other playoffs we didnt have constant tmo intervention and it may be because they didnt see anything, in this case dangerous tackles. So, while we sit now and hackle the tmo, it is possible that the tmos actions were dictated by what he saw on the field and had nothing to do with attitude or inconsistency.
Yet there were misses...so yeah...inconsistency. 1. At 40:15 they discuss the arm to Ethan DeGroot's nose while Fresel gets yellow 2. At 19:02 they discuss the guideline that says 2 previous plays for a try called back. They took 4, while the ref called no knock on. Those TMO boys got a big head that night. They made Wayne Barnes look stupid, and made a poor spectacle for growing the game. That is the problem. This is not about one side or the other.
The Frizell incident is a blight on the game! To deliberately hurt a player and end his final is disgusting. Difficult to not think the team discussed the 7-1 bench and how vulnerable they would be in certain positions and saw the opportunity@@sports2hedz542
It is frustrating when the ref says 1 thing and then reverses the decision once the tmo gets involved, same thing happened to us in a previous match where O'Keefe told Eben well done for rolling, good job, and then the tmo comes in and Eben gets a penalty for not rolling.
We saw some great tackles in this match. I honestly thought Eben's tackle on Maunga was going to be a hospital case. Bone crushing. PSDT folding Barrett was another classic.
So much respect for Same Kane, don't think the AB's would have beaten Ireland without his performance. He spoke incredibly well post-match given what he must have been feeling!
If South Africa scored a try after that knock on in the lineout, and the TMO didn't intervene, kiwis will be jumping up and down, you wouldn't hear the end of it.There are times where the TMO needs to intervene
Shannon Frizzell knew exactly what he was doing to Bongi Mbonambi in the 2nd minute of the game and it was a very dangerous act of blatant foul play (a crocodile tackle) to take him out of the game and weaken the effectiveness of the Bok scrum/lineout!...it was a red card all the way because it was a deliberate act of aggression!
As a Springbok supporter, we did not like the red card, because we KNOW, once the All Blacks are man down, they are SO go a notch up. Well done All Blacks
I love you Kiwi guys, so much respect, thank you, I bit different from all the other supporters hate that we have seen against South Africa. Well done in the final, great game! Hope next world cup will be yours (lets keep it in the SH). Much love for all of yous! Love the pod as well, thanks for an awesome WC.
With regards to the Ardie penalty, Barnes NEVER admitted to being wrong, he said he saw it different to how it was presented in the replay, and it was a millisecond call. Ardie asked the ref if he saw the replay, to which Barnes replied "I didn't see the replay, I thought you stayed on him, you didn't come off him enough." His actual words.
I understand some of the comments in the show are coming from a positiin of pain. Good discussion none the less...and comiserations. You guys were excellent snd should feel proud. We look forward to cheering you all the way next time. Keep it between us 😊
Id just love to hear the take about the TMO if the ref just awarded the Kurt Lee Arendse “try” without checking the grounding or foot in touch. It’s the same principle. If you are going to check the legality of the one, you have to check the legality of the other. How would it be right to award the NZ try when there’s an obvious and clear knock, just because the ref missed it, but not aware the Kurt Lee “try” when the ref couldn’t see the grounding and foot in touch and had to check the TMO. It’s completely arbitrary to say: we should go back so many phases. Either you use replays to get obvious calls right (and the Savea call was a 50/50), the knock on was clear as daylight. or you don’t.
With SA playing in the URC we saw how involved TMOs were in the Northern Hemisphere games. Before the world cup we said this WC is going to be decided by cards as too much emphasis is placed on big collisions. We just thought the Springboks being physical would be the one to get the cards. It seems they adjusted a lot for the World Cup, as they almost stopped contenting kicks and rather waited for the ball to land.
Barnes didn't apologise for making a mistake but continued to allow the penalty. English people use the word sorry in general conversation not to only apologise and it seems the context of the word here has been misunderstood.
Good discussion. But with Frizell, definitely a deliberate move. He eyes Mbonambi right before he drives his shoulder into his leg while still holding his head. It’s not about his inability to roll away 😂 A little AB bias creeping in there, I think. I’d even consider that a red.
@@jasonmiles7607 I just can't shake the feeling off that it was intentional. I pray it wasn't, but you can see how aware he was in his controlled movement.
Bryn was ABSOLUTELY correct by correcting everyone else that was NOT what WB said. He said he did not see the replay, but "sorry" that was not how he saw Ardi's "jackle" as being legal. There was no clear daylight in allowing Vermeulen to place the ball - and that was what WB blew and hat he meant. The panel's subsequent discussion about having to go back and reiview the decision is thus superfluous.
What was Frizell's intent grabbing bongi around the neck in the cleanout? Were his intentions pure😂. You want inconsistencies, de Groot collapsing the scrum three times without being penalised, RG being penalised for coming through the middle of the maul leading to the all blacks' try, all blacks scrumming early on the second last scrum and not conceding a short arm, all blacks throwing in scew into the lineouts three times in the first half without conceding a scrum. Please complain about the inconsistencies on both sides.
As for the mics on water carriers, I think that's a great idea.. I think most Kiwi's might get confused when listing to so much Xhosa conversation but it least we'd cut back on the "SIDE" show. On the head contacts, I don't understand why Kiwi pundits are struggling so much with this: 1) Sam Cains' was picture perfect red card. It'll probably be used by WR as an example of what not to do. Shoulder to face, no drop in height.... illegal. 2) Kolisi's I'd argue wasn't even a yellow. He was bent at the waist. His primary point of contact was shoulder to body. His head then hits the ball and bounces up. It's not DIRECT head contact. It's not dangerous. It's at most a penalty, and probably just a "rugby incident". Go to 29:02 and use the . key to go forward frame by frame. Shoulder, ball, head. 3) Kriels' lack of a card. There are angles that show the heads move past each-other. The SCo player bounces off the ball which is being carried under his chin. There;s enough doubt there to wonder if head contact even happened. We don't card player if they might have done something wrong, we card them when it's clear and obvious. Sam Cain's card was clear and Obvious.
Alot of respect and Props for Bryn Hall and James I agree there is alot of frustration regarding TMO decisions throughout the Tournament or the involvement of the TMO not just in the Final but throughout the Tournament. This is a good Unbiased and down the middle Commentary on Rugby matters way better than the Drivel and EMOTIVE Vitriol from John Kirwin and Jeff Wilson who are mostly part of the Old Boys Club and Dagg from sky nz
@@Againstdhawa We definitely hope so. We are losing some great players so he has a huge workload ahead of him. Only thing none of us can control is …we can only hope that RWC get their act together for next cup….but end of day we play what we are given…all the best…and gratz on your 4th Cup title…Massive feat!
Nothing I can say to console the Kiwis, but feel like mentioning. I didn't give them any chance after France. What they have done since then, shows why they are considered by many as the best in the World. What an amazing turnaround and they could have won that final. Naturally happy for South Africa, but a special word of thanks and congrats to the Kiwis. See you again soon for yet another monster of a game. NZ rugby looks good for 2027. Love from SA.
I wish the northern hemisphere rugby pundits can watch this podcast. There's no bragging of how the best their team are. How they have the best 15 world wide. It's about rugby pure rugby, the pros and cons of the game. So nice and refreshing. Gentlemen, big ups to you. From a south African
On the Ardie "turnover". Ardie saw the replay and said to the ref he released the ref said "sorry mate I didn't see the replay, I thought you stayed on him, didn't come off it enough" Where in that statement did he apparently admit he got the call wrong? He literally said I didn't see the replay and explained why he gave the penalty and then the Sky commentators lost their minds. That's why New Zealand watched a different game then the rest of the world
Ardie defenitely deserved it last yeat as well. He always plays well, even if the ABs has an off day. Think World Rugby might be a year behind on the award, as Eben could have gotten it last 3 years as well, so maybe next year. Well done Ardie. You are one of my favourite players --- from a Bok supporter
The Boks took the hardest route in history to winning the WC, their game management and BMT got them the cup. We adapted our game plan when needed, we scored tries when needed and this side is the greatest WC team in the history of the game. We can debate some decisions but that has always been the case, no ine cried when Warburton got red carded against France and a very good Welsh team got knocked out. Its tough as a supporter to watch the small margins go against you but that the way the game goes.
I was actually quite sad to see Wales robbed of their place in the final that year. South Africa have a suspicious habit of being on the right side of robberies when it really counts in World Cups. France semi final 1995. Probably the final in 1995. England robbed of try 2007 final. France kick unfairly blocked down this years quarter, England penalised in scrum in wrong call to let SA kick for final place. Kolisi runs into Cane's arm and Cane gets a red card even though he had zero forward momentum (unlike the elbow to the face he got earlier or the later SA headcharge)
@@cigh7445 You need some tissues for those tears mate? You can try discredit us all you want but history won’t remember you folks trying to discredit us. History will remember us winning those WC’s and in 2023 having the hardest route to the final and winning it against our arch rivals to win a historic 4th WC. You gents need to learn how to lose, it’s becoming embarrassing with all this whinging. I thought that’s what the Poms do
The NZ pundits only review certain parts of the game that effected them negatively. Then the South African pundits will only review parts of the game that negatively effected them. No one is looking at any of this objectively, but rather coming from very biased opinions based on which team they support.
As always, great pod gentlemen. Could not see too much wrong with the analysis. Congratulations to Ardie Savea, well deserved. See you in the next one.
There appears to be this mass delusion from some NZ supporters over the Savea incident, Barnes did not admit fault he apologized for the fact that he doesn't agree with Savea and I saw no clear release. And there wasn't any clear release. But I have said it adpot the captains challenge from league.
But the TMO didn't consistently help the ref make correct decisions. He got involved sometimes when when he felt like it and other times he didn't get involved. One time he alerted the ref to foul play which when checked by the bunker was deemed not to be foul play. The ref didn't think so at the time either. I.E. The Frizell penalty and yellow. Originally the TMO was someone the ref could call on when he needed more info, e.g. To check.a grounding, and or a foot over the side line during a grounding. Need to go back to that.
@peterclareburt4594 the TMO will alert the ref to certain incidents that only technology can pick up... what's the point of having live technology if the TMO ignores it
@@dn822 the bunker reversed the TMO and the refs reasons for penalizing Frizzel, and of course the ball was passed backwards but travelled forward a little. That scenario has been covered off many times over the years.
Until the boks lose to the TMO then lets get rid of it ayyyy. If not then ayyy i am wrong and you are right. P.S. not a AB or Bok supporter but will always call out one eyed fans and silly comments.
Agree was all so close, it was well matched game. If that Barrett penalty kick had landed between the 2 poles, don’t think my beloved Bokke would have come back. I’m South African but honestly that missed penalty was what had Bokke win. Hard luck ABs, bloody well done Bokke who’d basically played at least 2 finals 2 weekends ahead(against France& England)💚💛 Edit: also ABs had wrong strategy trying to break an impenetrable Bokke defence…too much energy wasted on it. It wasn’t going to be enough to win them the game. And that is what makes SA coaching superior, understand the team you’re playing and what’s needed to win to next round or to lift trophy
Yep as soon as he missed it I knew it was game over, Jordie has insane power on his kicks but his Accuracy has never been top tier , kicking cost us this game
When he was lining up to take it I knew he would miss it, he was all nerves. Mannie Libbok also struggled with this throughout. I am glad sanity prevailed within the Boks and Pollard was given the reigns
I don't think the strategy was wrong we were breaching the bok line one try we scored but got called back for a knock on at the lineout,we scored the second opportunity. We also had another try scoring opportunity in the 73 min we had an overlap and the Boks only had one player back near their 22. The bok winger intentionally knocked the ball down resulting in a yellow card and a penalty but we lost the opportunity to score a try and also lost the opportunity for field position which would have given us the opportunity to get points from kicks closer to the posts. I think the bad decision they made was to kick for the corner rather than take easy shots at goal in those tight games you need to take the easy points that are offered to you because points are so hard to come by and South Africa understands that.
Kolisi not passing the ball with an over lap which should have been an almost certain try, Boks held up over the line, Faf's charge down which could have gone anywhere, Pollard's drop charged down, ifs, ifs ifs. Both sides had chances to score more points.
Hi gents, I am South African and I love the show, so appreciate the dialogue and the insights you offer on important questions, completely understand some of the frustrations. I think to offer an alternative perspective from an SA point of view, because often if you win you tend not to criticise marginal calls on either side, but from a SA perspective I think I could offer two critical moments for us that are overlooked because of the win, one being Siya's second half run and de Allende nearly getting over, he is tackled short by Jordie I think and is never released for a recycle but instead pulled over the line by Barrett and it is called held up instead of a potential penalty or quick recycle and try, so I felt that was marginal enough to feel agrieved. The other instance was Faf's out the back pass which was called forward but off which Willie appears to have potentially scored a try, for me these 2 instances would have been massive calls for me. Potentially would have been more frustrated by these calls had we lost but in the end we ended up on the correct side of the score. So I agree there are often marginal calls that can have big impacts on the outcome of the game, I feel maybe in this instance our opportunities seem to be overlooked as if NZ had all the lost opportunities to win the game, save for some marginal calls but my feelings are that we had missed opportunities too for the score to potentially be higher, save for some marginal calls from an SA perspective. Just a different perspective to keep the referee decisions in context on both sides, in a contest separated by a 1 point margin.
The TMO in rugby is getting it 80 percent right and that's very good for the game even if they are always in the game as long as the right decision is been made that's all that matters even if the game needs to be stopped that's fine we want the best and fairest decision as possible must be taken the TMO in this world cup was getting it more right then wrong and that's all that matters
As a Bok supporter I am ecstatic we won and feel we fully deserve it. The ABs had their chances and in that sense sport is very cruel. Wayne Barnes had an excellent match. I do want to point out, that we can all benefit from simplifying the laws of the game, and even doing away with a lot of them. At the moment there is a lot of subjectivity in how they are interpreted and applied. Just think of how the refs need to make a decision in a second and we expect them to always get it right. It's impossible. But we can make it easier for the refs, the players and the fans to enjoy the game we love so much. Simplify the laws. Expand the game. PS I was gutted for Sam Cane, but the way the All Blacks responded was incredible. What a match.
That is what Rassie was trying to say but was criticized and banned for it. So let's all reflect and not forget about that situation which he took on the chin. Granted he was part of an organization, be that as it may.
Excellent show and analysis lads. Springbok fan here and I am obviously delighted and over the moon. However the all Blacks needs to hold their heads high. They played a tremendous game. I absolutely agree on your takes on the inconsistencies with reffing as well as TMO's. It needs to be looked at. This time the Boks navigated the perilous path. Hope to see common sense changes going forward.
I remember when the southern hemisphere teams played in the north they got penalised for everything. So they went back and learnt how to play the north rules but with the south mentality and so we dominated . The north thought they had the games in the bag you cannot beat the southern hemisphere temperament.
good discussion - another moment that wasn’t even reviewed by the ref or tmo was the Barrett try where the pass appeared to go forward - not just 😢bounced - puts and takes both ways - I agree O’Keefe was good and ref’d the previous games Boks in - as you say overall the Boks played all the top teams and had the winning streak they needed, ABs had there chances - you can’t argue with that 👍
Great analysis! I agree about the refereeing. As a South African and Springbok supporter, I was also frustrated with the inconsistent Referee decisions. Ultimately, both sides want to contest and win a fair game.
I thought you were gonna discuss how the Springboks won the world cup? Like an analysis type of thing. But the whole conversation was around Wayne Barnes and the TMO?
De Groot's call was because both players went in low. The defending Springbok went down as well to make an attempted "legal" tackle (hinging at the waist with wrapping arms). A similar situation also happened, Willemse tried to milk a penalty for a high tackle (while he was falling to the ground), but the ref told him he went down. So even though there was an arm around the neck, the NZ player attempted to make a legal tackle (low enough). Coming back to De Groot, if we wanted the SB to go even lower the only other tackle would've been around the legs, which in many cases is illegal if it's a "grass cutter" (and can also be extremely dangerous for both the defender and runner), so basically that means De Groot should've just been allowed to run through with no attempted tackle from the defending SB.
All Blacks & Springboks will always be the best because the undying respect and love between the teams and all the fans! We celebrate and commiserate each other equally.
Great Show guys I realize that this loss to Boks is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow for All of NZ but great assessment of the Final on the whole especially with regard to the knock-on at the line-out 2-Phases being a Guideline and all for TMO.... Again enjoyed watching Podcast as always.
With regards to that last scrum. Of course Faf isn't going to play the ball if NZ engages early. Also, what about the All black number 21 who plays Faf without the ball, while rotating around to the back of the South African scrum?
Howzit guys! As a Saffa, I just love this podcast. The way you analyse the game, no bias at all. If NZ would have won this world cup they would have been fully deserving of the title, hats of to all NZ players and fans, huge respect to you guys!
Loved the episode and the objectivity. Do agree with the issues raised and needs to be addressed for the greater good of the game. Will take the win and celebrate it but it was frustrating to watch.
As a Saffa, I still can’t understand why the AB’s didn’t take the points when they were on offer. You don’t get points for “style” of play. 🤷♂️ AB’s played like demons though 👌🏾
We got the try, we missed conversion, we missed penalty kick so why single out the penalty kick for touch decision made by coach btw and a right call. There were three shocking tmo calls and im not referring to Cane.
Yeah I mean Don't think Sam cane should have gotten red card . all blacks knocked ball forward great pass form faf de klerk and try scored ref calls boks back without playing advantage. All blacks try video footage shows ball going forward.
The RWC was meant for the Springboks. How they survived the French, English and All Blacks its mind boggling. Just when you thought their opponents will take advantage of their mistakes, they did not. I guess it was a game of mental strength and resilience. Well done the Boks.
Your Jesus backing, hallelujah, hallelujah
They had some help against France and a lot of help against New Zealand. Not to mention that scrum that was penalised against England in the semi final which many, including the greatest referee Nigel Owens, believe shouldn't have been given.
I'm honestly suspicious that there's something dodgy going on behind the scenes with South Africa and rugby. 2007 England were robbed by being denied a clear try in the final...
Officiating in rugby is usually among the best of any sport until it comes to South Africa games in World Cups
And scotland
@cigh7445 some decision did NOT go out way either. We had 2 yellow cards in final
arg please man, stop being a sore loser@@cigh7445
RWC Top 6 v Top 6
Scotland played 2 won 0
England played 1 won 0
France played 2 won 1
Ireland played 3 won 2
New Zealand played 3 won 1
Springboks played 5 won 4
The above stats alone showcase how tough the springboks route to winning the RWC was. An incredible effort and deserved champions.
What it really shows is the rules and interpretation of the rules suit the boks game to absolute perfection. Hence why they've won two on the trot. They really didnt play that great in this tournament or the final either.
Thnx mate
@@austingtir we didnt play great? Lmfao🤣🤣🤣 keep crying..want some salt ? We played some of the best rugby..cry harder try again next time
Thanks for these stats, I was thinking of this too, esp tht NZ was 3-1, it's good perspective & helps reinforce why ireland is still ranked #2
@@austingtirso what then is playing well, pray tell
Big respect to Bryn hall…always professional ,respectful and fair in assessment…love from South Africa
agreed
Listening to James Parsons on the other hand felt like Jeff Wilson's whinging about officials.
Kwagga Smith. World rugby player of the year. Absolute beast
He is my favorite SA player. But Ardie deserved it. Kwagga is a beast.
They should create an award for best impact player. Kwagga is probably the best impact player of all time.
I totally agree...Kwagga Pieter Ox and Jessie was amazing, but it was a squad who won the game
I look to 80min great play match after match, and yes there are many boks but Bongi had no sub’s during 4 serious games. He gave it all. And so did the rest of the team but they did get sub’s and I don’t think any player plays 80 during the last 4 RWC Matches.
@@larrymeyer2917 4 serious games? He only had no sub in the semi final, and played almost the whole game against quarterfinal against France (75 minutes). He didn’t play against Tonga, he was subbed against Ireland in the 64th minute, played 40 minutes only against Romania, and less than half a game against Scotland. And just 2 minutes in the final.
SA losing their hooker in the 3rd minute no thanks to Shannon Frizell was a major setback. The replacement wasn’t a regular hooker. They were also down two players separately for 10 minutes each in the second half, effectively reducing their strength to fourteen men for almost 20 minutes collectively, leaving the team having to adjust on the spot with no break to plan anything or consult with coaches. On top of that, they had just played two big games with top tier opponents within a week of each other and of the finals. I think they did an exceptional job under adversity and tremendous pressure. They well and truly deserve that win. True champions that really got tested being the only team to play all five of the other top six teams. They somehow managed to get back on top against England too even though, in my opinion, the referee killed the game for them from the get go. Funny thing is when SA lost to Ireland in the pool games because of missed kicks, they were subject to all sorts of criticism. But when the AB lose because of all their missed kicks, they are praised and apparently, deserved to win. Equally strange is that when a team loses by one point, people say they deserve to win but when a team wins by one point they somehow don’t. Very strange world this is.
Bunch of cry babies they are mate and salty kids
Losing Marx (best hooker in the world by far) was massive.
@@nic0072 Yeah agreed but Bongi was doing well in his place. Too bad the AB took him out.
💯
People just hate the boks, and the narrative will always change depending on which side of the story we fall on
Thanks guys, by far the best analysis I have seen.
Just one thing: There is a massive misconception around Barnes and Savea's penalty. He did NOT say "I saw the replay and realised I made a mistake". Exactly the opposite happened: His exact words were: "I DID NOT see the replay", meaning he was not looking at the screen when the replay was on. Then he said: "I did not see you release enough", meaning that he interpreted the play as a penalty against Savea for not allowing the tackler to place the ball. Point being, it is not that he did not realise a mistake was made and refused to reverse it. He interpreted it his way and did not see the replay so he could not change his mind.
You missed the piece at the very end where Ardie says "so that was alright?" obviously referencing what was now on the screen and Barnes said "yeah".
Wayne Barnes was not apologizing for making the wrong call he just said sorry mate I saw something different.
Exactly. A narrative is being pushed that didn't happen. Secondly the TMOs had a directive from WR, let's not act like we don't know they are supposed to look for infringements. That was a knock on period.
Exactly. Don't be a MAGA-Trump fool and spin the Big Lie Barnes ostensibly apologized for his "mistake" . Barnes believed he did not, and were apologetic in conveying his CONTRARY opinion to the questioning All Black player. Barnes might as well said "Bugger off" to be far clearer, but then we will another different discussion about Barnes' rudeness now, wont we?
@mthunziphakathi4215 Then call the knock on when it happens. The only reason play was brought back was because a try was scored. If NZ instead get a 5m lineout from the play instead of a try, which has a high probabliilty of a try, the play isn't brought back. Or even if they get a penalty from it, its not brought back. The refereeing decision is only made as a result of the outcome, not as a result of the infringement, which is why the "2 phase rule" is there IMO.
Also where is the compensation for the 2-3 minutes of game time that was lost? In theory nothing happened but the clocked moved forward. I'm happy to go back but why does the clock not reset to the time of the infringment. NZ would have loved another 2-3 mins to try and get those final points.
@@samgeorgia7358 Do you understand that the laws and a guideline are two separate things.
One of the best down the middle discussions i had heard about the final. This has been one of the best Pods that I followed during the tournament. They finally said something that I had been waiting for. They had their chances, even with the card, missed calls and what not, the ABs had their chances, and they did not take it. The Boks, took every chance they got, and won the scoreboard, and won the game. Plain and simple as that. This was a final where both teams went at this hammer and tongs, and it was a game of moments. Both teams can be proud, it was titanic.
It was the same in 2011 when we beat France in the final
I disagree - I was quite disappointed by the chat. They are always so fair in their views, but I am telling you now if it was 12-11 to NZ this whole discussion is completely different. It is sad to see this trend continuing ... Same in France vs Boks and Eng vs Boks. Parson's is visibly rattled. Yes, it hurts, but you have to acknowledge the opposition.
This is such a refreshing rugby talk show.. people talking common sense rugby and keeping it real
Geez I commend you guys for being so objective on the 50/50 calls… refreshingly honest views and I was blown away by Bryn especially.
I’m still gutted 😢 No matter the controversy. New Zealand missed 2 kicks that could’ve won the game. Extremely proud of the NZ effort. They were in a position to win regardless the adversity. Congrats South Africa. If it’s not us, I’m happy, you are the winners. Keep it in the South.
The ABs try should have been disallowed because it went forward and the kicks they missed were no gimmes.
@@nic0072 it was 100% a try. Not forward. That is all.
The ball rolled forward .Should have been a Springbok scrum .End of story !
Keep your head up! It’s yours next!
From 🇿🇦
@@PieterErasmus-bm3msAre you kidding.That TMO guy wouldn’t allowed try if was forward.
That TMO guy had thousand cameras at different angles.He crucified the All Blacks.
TMO guy Tom Foley was the man of the match.End of story!!
Been looking forward to this episode. Give the Springboks their flowers. They are the best team in the world once again. 4 more years.
4 more years.. We had our chances , missed kicks, turning down points and the red card didn’t help us!
+ Boks defence still world class as ever ! Congratulations SA 🎉
@mungoblizzard6114 yes it was victory thru defence... viva Bokke
@@mungoblizzard6114 thanks mate yeah ABs had their chances and didnt use them wisely i kept shouting kick for posts our defense is too powerful and they kept going side lines ..if they took those kicks they wouldve won
If New Zealand won this, the conversation would have been all about how good a state rugby is and what a great referee job was done …
100% and it just shows they dont care about rugby and the game they just care about winning
For years and years and years we have had the wrong sides of decisions in these big games (Eg Bryce Lawrence 2011 WC), Bismarck du Plessis tackle on Dan Carter being ruled a yellow card etc, etc etc. For ONCE, we get the rub of the green in so-called 50/50 decisions. It just happened to be on the big stage. So we will take it this time!😀
@@toymc51 that’s called class mate. You could argue they were not the best team in the tournament and the recent awards seems to point to that but champions always find a way to win. Take the red card away and the bokke dont go for the numerous kicks and drops…no matter what they found a way to win. Go watch that game again and remind yourself South Africa now has 4 trophies and are finally proven as the best rugby nation on the planet! GO BOKKE YOU BEAUTIES !!!!!
@@commentwell3870 exactly mate, we always had to worry about what ref had a chip on their shoulder.
@@toymc51Rassie warned you about the state of refereeing a while back and nobody agreed with him 😂
This has been one of the best most unbiased pods i ve ever listened to.
Factual.accurate .well done guys
Unbias? Imposible!
Then listen
From a defeated bunch to be so humble....come on
James Parsons whinges like Jeff Wilson about officiating. Hardly unbised😂😂
I completely understand the frustrations of the AB supporters and my heart goes out to them because if it was us losing by one point I would have been just as gutted and probably would have had a lot to say about some of the ref calls. However what I don’t agree with is fans coming in and attacking players and saying the boks didn’t deserve the win. The players can’t control the refs or TMO and each and everyone puts there heart and soul in to those matches on both sides. The All blacks and springboks both deserved to win it, and as a Bok supporter I really thought we were going to lose it in the last 15 but the boys found a way. Win or lose I have immense respect for both teams and if any fan has any kind of respect or deep appreciation for rugby you would only have to look at the interaction between Kolisi and Ardie after the game to feel the right way about rugby. Hats off to All blacks, to me you will always be the team to beat. May the rivalry always continue and respect never die 🫡🇿🇦
I have been Following Jacques Nienaber since 2005 at the Cheetahs. The guy in my opinion has been the best defense coach for almost two decades. At Cheetahs, Stormers, Boks 2011, Munster, Boks again, he always improves every team's defense to a world class level. Leinster will be very lucky to have him. If he can have an assistant coach with a good attacking pedigree, Leinster will be very hard to stop.
Johan Ackerman Swys debruin Jacque Fourie and Dwayne Vermeulen to replace Nienaber and co.
@@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lb I think Swys is done with coaching. He has some stress related conditions. I also believe the next coach will come from within the current setup. I agree with you on Ackerman. Hopefully they rope him in as part of the new coaching team and groom him over the next 4 years to become Springbok coach.
@@RikiLouw69 Johan Ackerman's run with the Golden Lions in Super Rugby from 2016 until he left was phenomenal. He came very close to winning it to but came up against an amazing Crusaders side. He'd be an amazing Springboks coach.
And now he is going to Leinster as a assistant coach. What a downgrade. Dude stay with the boks and climb the ladder
@@RicksPhatPharm-vw2lbDayne defense coach. Swys will go in as adviser as his previous position Ackerman is out sorry. Dan or Deon will get head coach even maybe sticks
World Rugby were never gonna give us Player of the year and coach of the year on top of winning back to back titles. But I cant complain with Ardie. He has been colossal for the ABs. I think Nienaber can feel hard done by. I think he is a better coach than Andy and when it mattered most he showed his quality.
I agree, my brother... World Rugby insulted SA rugby
The world 15? Only one Saffa? I don't think they place any value on defence. Kolbe was immense on D
South African here so I have skin in the game but… just based on the tactic of the bomb squad and bringing on players to close the game, it’s difficult to compare (awesome) players who play 45 to 50 minutes a game to equally awesome players who play the full 80 week in and week out. The 80 minute players should get the nod over the 50 minute players. Jacques N always said it’s about the squad and depth and so it was and the cup was won by rotating players but it came at the cost of prizes and awards for individual players. Eben was reported to have said that if you want individual glory go play tennis or golf
@@trevorsolomons6305but that's why Jacques should get coach of the year. Rotation, building depth, player management and game plan won this world cup
Stop whinging pal. SA are World Champs be happy with that. The International Rugby season diddnt start on Sep 8th it started in Feb. Its team/coach of the year not team of the World Cup. Ireland lost 1 game all year Boks lost 2. Farrell deserved COTY
The springboks have been innovators of the game of rugby for ages. When they do things consistently it is considered boring and must be changed. The irony is mindboggling
3 years ago Rassie called out refs inconsistencies and bad calls (and got lambasted for it). Then he spent the last year and half reaching out to Nigel Owen’s on how to respect refs, Siya at every press conference spoke about respecting the ref, etc. And in every game SA won by 1 point not one shocker call went against SA , and they got at least even treatment, if not the slight rub of the green on the 50/50 calls. Rassie deserves world PR expert of the year award. I don’t for one second believe we win all 3 of those games without first putting refs on notice, and then rebuilding the relationship with refs
You guys are the personification of why the Springboks/ ABs rivalry is so special. Respect, admiration, facts. Have loved every episode during the World Cup. Your comments about your team and Sam Cane are spot on. A class act. Thanks, from a proud Saffer.
For years and years and years we have had the wrong sides of decisions in these big games (Eg Bryce Lawrence 2011 WC), Bismarck du Plessis tackle on Dan Carter being ruled a yellow card etc, etc etc. For ONCE, we get the rub of the green in so-called 50/50 decisions. It just happened to be on the biggest stage. So we will take it this time!😀
Amen!!!!
Bok supporter here. It's a big privilege to face the haka on any match day, but it is a thing of beauty in a world cup final. We're actually playing New Zealand! Almost thirty years later and it still chokes me the hell up. Always very special. Kane's red card was harsh, and moments such as when the little kick from Faf down the line got caught almost gave me a heart attack. This match had many moments of that class of brilliance and drama. Huge respect to Mr Foster for taking the team from being harshly described as worst ever to a real contender in the final with a loss by the slimmest of margins. Can't write about the Boks yet, bit too emotional. Huge respect to the ABs, can't wait for you glorious, clinical bastards with your spooky ball skills to come and try to take the cup back next time! Loved your coverage of the World Cup, thank you very much. Ps. Would have absolutely loved Argentina to have beaten the English!
This was such a great final. Two southern hemisphere teams in the final was epic. As a South African, I'm going to miss this show. We have great respect and friendship for New Zealand.
@gaweedwen Yes I call that a great game! 15 v 14 is unfortunate but that galvanised the AB's, they showed grit and that's why it was a great game, not many teams with 14 players on the park can play that well like the AB did and also score while 1 man down. As much as the Boks won, lets not take that effort away from the AB. You got to give the ABs more credit buddy!
We were 14 men for 1/4 of the game with two yellows. AB's missed so many kicks, no one but yourselves to blame.@gaweedwen
@gaweedwen Nobody wanted to see a red card in the final. Get real about that. Still, was a great final for the purists!
15 v 14 between the two too top teams was never going to be a great game, but congrats to the Springboks
Scrum at the end - AB's pushed too early. Exactly the same happened in the SA/Ireland game, Murray milked it and Ireland actually got a penalty which they converted. Experienced scrumhalves are smart in those situations.
Siya is so right in what the Boks represent to South Africa and how that is a motivator for never giving up. Morning tv coverage is focused on the team landing around 10.30 am. Fans arrived at the terminal before 7 am, shots of the plane flight path are intercut with asking people who is the star - no one can list less than 4 names. Also asking what they represent to us as a nation and how they are a template for the country.
Adding to the day is the fact that it is snowing - breaking the early summer heat wave. And the president has declared a public holiday on 15 th December to celebrate the cup and the hope the Boks stand for.
As a South African, I am extremely happy we have won the world cup back-to-back, but I am also extremely sad and heart-broken.
This is truly an end of an era for our current squad. From Siya being our first black captain, who reminds me of Mandela, to Faf with his long blonde hair and jack-russell-terrier-like tenacity; this team just oozies character and diversity like no other.
The heart wrenching journey they have been through; fending off France, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat against England, holding-off the All Blacks with shear grit; it’s like their legacy was written in the stars... Even though, their performance had been questionable, fate wouldn't allow them to lose...
Life in South Arica is really tough, back in 2019 the Springboks won us over by giving us hope, but now they've just plainly made us fall in love with them.
Many of them are already in their 30s and will probably not be in the next world cup squad; Jacques Nienaber is moving on, so is Felix Jones; I'm sure other staff will follow cos they've all become high commodity now, which SA's economy can't afford to compete and keep...
This bio-epic has come full-circle, it is at its end and that breaks my heart... What a team, what a story!
Invictus II?
I think you are right, however there is a lot of young guys in the sqaud that will make the next world cup, check the ages of all the players
What a great chat! Y'all were very objective. Good on you!
My argument for Nienaber getting Coach vs Farrell is entirely that Farrell went into this year cycle with the "best" team and coached them to the quarter finals in a RWC year which is the objective of the year. Nienaber took a side that wasn't the "best" (1 player in the World XV), and coached them through the toughest route possible to lift the trophy.
Springboks showed the expansive rugby vs Romania and Tonga. They showed the game-management and territory rugby vs Ireland (lost because of 5 missed kicks :/) and Scotland. They played the frenetic running rugby vs France. They played the ugly, clawing rugby vs England. Then they played the smothering rugby against the All Blacks (who were phenomenal, and eliminated the downside of only having 14 men by attacking constantly - Good Lord, ABs are great!)
Best Team won - AB's had a serious "Brain fart". Forgot they were in a Final. If they had kicked their early penalties the result may have been different - were over confident in their Try scoring abilities born out of a number of easy opponents in earlier rounds who they took pleasure in scoring some incredible tries against. Bok's had a game plan for the Final - and executed. Losing Bongi was huge - their ability to take this in their stride and move on was incredible.
100% I couldn’t believe it when I saw them kick for the corner…against the Springboks in a World Cup final…. Insane
Were you guys also frustrated by decisions that went against the Boks? If your opposition conceded 10 penalties and only had 38% of possession and territory, and you missed 5 points at goals, you really only got yourself to blame. Also, if Siya made one pass after half time, the game could have been buried.
What a stupid question that's like asking the Boks if they were frustrated by the decisions that went against the All Blacks
we're you frustrated that you had a numerical advantage and couldn't do jack shit and were kept scoreless in the second half.
@@KiloPage777 it is stupid why would you be concerned if your opposition are frustrated with decisions that are being made it makes no difference to what your trying to do.
@@Stephen-bq4nq It makes the world of difference. Don't be an idiot. If you are a pundit, it is expected from you to be impartial and unbiased. If NZ won, then there would have been no complaints. NZ wants open flowing rugby, because it suits them. We saw after the 35-7 result as well. Just whinging, whinging, whinging. When you are a pundit, it is expected from you to have an objective opinion.
@@RikiLouw69 You're the idiot do the Boks and their fans care about our frustrations no they don't they couldn't care less.
The best game in the world cup that showed the world that the Springboks can attack when needed was the France and South Africa game.The Romania game also showed That the Springboks can run a ball down the line well.Congrats to the Springbok Fan group well done Supporting our team.
I pointed out after Argentina we could lose because of not taking converting our penalties and taking points on offer, and that exactly what happened. Big respect to Springbok, they brought it to us and after the games they had to get through, outstanding to win WRC
Nobody talks about the wrong call made prior to the Barret try. A penalty was awarded to NZ for Fourie making a strip with his knees on the ground during a line out mall. Another line out followed resulting in the try. A replay showed Fourie was on both feet, and Kolbe was on his knees adjacent, but he did not play the ball. Bitch about that for 10 or 15 minutes!
Nobody looks at the bad calls that go against the winning team. We've been guilty of that in the past... but for a good few years now, SA fans have been saying that poor officiating is ruining the game, and the world told us to shut up and stop whinging. Well, now the shoe is on the other foot and they don't like it. Maybe now something will be done about it. But probably not, at least not until things change in World Rugby management.
Your interpretation of what happenec is wrong. The ball carrier (I believe Savea) had a knee on tbe ground, at which point the tacklers have to release, but Fourie ripped the ball.
The correct call was made. The point is that the TMO made the right calls, some went for us, some went for the Kiwis.
@@rothnieoosthuizen3728 You are correct saying some calls went for SA and some for NZ - that is what I am trying to illustrate. The whining goes on and on about the wrong calls against NZ, but no mention of the calls against SA.
In this situation the ref called "tackle" the moment Savea's knees hit the ground. That was the moment he should have placed the ball. Fourie was never involved in the tackle. A player not upright, or on his feet is not allowed to play the ball. Savea was supposed to release the ball the moment the ref called "tackle". He was holding on, because had he placed it in terms of the rules, there was no way NZ could recycle the ball. Strictly speaking the penalty should have been awarded to SA.
@@battievandermerwe9121 I just went back and had another look at the incident. Sorry, but no, you are wrong. Fourie was wrestling for the ball before Savea's knee went down, he was clearly part of the tackle. The TMO made the right call.
I get the broader point you are trying to make, but your incorrect recollection/interpretation of the incident detracts from it and plays into the "whiners" hands.
Difficult to imagine how Jacques was not coach of the year….he has taken the game to a whole new level…set so many new standards…and the Springbok team love him….
People also forget that the Springboks won the British and Irish lions series whilst the AB did not ...only drew 🤔...so going by that... this Springboks team is special.
No, Sir, Wayne Barnes did not admit that he gave the wrong call, his words were: “Sorry, Ardie, that’s how I see it.”
At that moment I thought that those were one of the grey areas of interpretation between North and South.
Congrats to a magnificent All Black team!
So on the TMO, basically what these guys are saying is that the TMO should have intervened when the decisions went against the ABs but they should not have, under the guise of the flow of the game, when it went for the ABs.
I think the Sam Cane Red card was too harsh, but I think the AB's got the Beauden Barret try with the rub of the green - because the ball did go forward out of Telea's hand when he knocked it on with the "pass" to Barret.
I agree with you, Cane card was harsh, world cup final some common sense should have been used, ABs should have won the game, just like France and England. I love watching the ABs play rugby.
I dont think it went forward to me it was passed just enough back from the hands but it bounced off the ground forward which is irrelevant because thats the momentum the player was carrying which is allowed for in the rules.
When it bounced the ball it was 1 meter forward, you can't say it went forward with momentum as Tela got tackled backwards.
Yup that was no try but they awarded it anyways
@@llewellynlamb9545 Read the rules. It doesnt matter how the ball bounces on the ground (from a LEGAL pass) and the momentum of the player after he released the ball shows he probably went over a meter before the ball even touched the ground. Thats momentum and the shape of the ball hitting the ground. Completely irrelevant to the pass. The pass only has to be going backwards from the hands thats it. All that matters is the ball goes backwards from the hands and it clearly did.
Wayne Barnes DID NOT APOLOGISE..he said to Ardie, who was insisting he'd released,"sorry, I didnt see it that way" he stood firm on his decision...stop with the copium
Quite correct. Media skewing things again.
GREAT analysis of the game and the RWC. RESPECT to New Zealand and the All Blacks. Go Bokke!!
Thanks guys for your always balanced reviews on the games during the RWC, especially on the final when other pundits weren't so dignified. NZ will always be our greatest rivals. Go Bokke 🇿🇦
Thank you guys ....love this show, so good to see different perspectives .....true rugby banter and huge respect for NZ rugby.......from JHB South Africa
Great balanced discussion. My heart with SA but NZ are a great team.
Loved to listen to you guys. Strong opinions. I want the correct calls for and against. If it means tmo has to help a ref, so be it.
I would like someone to talk about the AB try. In my opinion, that ball went forward. There was no backward movement to justify a drift ball, and it definitely landed in front of his hands since the ball left his hands.
Prior to 1995, when the Springboks were not included in the rugby “world” cup, we always claimed :
‘ you cannot claim yourself to be WORLD champions, until you have beaten the Soringboks.’
Perhaps you will finally understand why we made such claims.
I agree
Great conversation thanks guys. Just a comment on the tmo. If he had nothing to report we probably would not have heard from him. In the other playoffs we didnt have constant tmo intervention and it may be because they didnt see anything, in this case dangerous tackles. So, while we sit now and hackle the tmo, it is possible that the tmos actions were dictated by what he saw on the field and had nothing to do with attitude or inconsistency.
Yet there were misses...so yeah...inconsistency.
1. At 40:15 they discuss the arm to Ethan DeGroot's nose while Fresel gets yellow
2. At 19:02 they discuss the guideline that says 2 previous plays for a try called back. They took 4, while the ref called no knock on.
Those TMO boys got a big head that night. They made Wayne Barnes look stupid, and made a poor spectacle for growing the game.
That is the problem. This is not about one side or the other.
@@sports2hedz542 its a GUIDELINE and the knock was clear and obvious.
The Frizell incident is a blight on the game! To deliberately hurt a player and end his final is disgusting. Difficult to not think the team discussed the 7-1 bench and how vulnerable they would be in certain positions and saw the opportunity@@sports2hedz542
Don’t be so reasonable
It is frustrating when the ref says 1 thing and then reverses the decision once the tmo gets involved, same thing happened to us in a previous match where O'Keefe told Eben well done for rolling, good job, and then the tmo comes in and Eben gets a penalty for not rolling.
We saw some great tackles in this match. I honestly thought Eben's tackle on Maunga was going to be a hospital case. Bone crushing. PSDT folding Barrett was another classic.
As a South African, there's no other team I would like to play as much in a WC final as the ABs, win or lose. Respect to my AB friends always ❤
So much respect for Same Kane, don't think the AB's would have beaten Ireland without his performance. He spoke incredibly well post-match given what he must have been feeling!
If South Africa scored a try after that knock on in the lineout, and the TMO didn't intervene, kiwis will be jumping up and down, you wouldn't hear the end of it.There are times where the TMO needs to intervene
TMOs had already spotted Ezebeth playing a player in air before knock on….so no
@@HeeniKeke Oh so if u have a penalty advantage forward passes are allowed? ARE U STUPID
Defence was on point for SA 🏉 Respect
Shannon Frizzell knew exactly what he was doing to Bongi Mbonambi in the 2nd minute of the game and it was a very dangerous act of blatant foul play (a crocodile tackle) to take him out of the game and weaken the effectiveness of the Bok scrum/lineout!...it was a red card all the way because it was a deliberate act of aggression!
Have to agree. Feel Frizzell got off easy from cynical foul play, whereas Sam Cane was unlucky to be caught by a crap rule - clearly no intent.
You mean crocodile roll. Which it wasnt, it was a neck roll.
Frizzell deserved the red more than Cane. Dirty dirty play
As a Springbok supporter, we did not like the red card, because we KNOW, once the All Blacks are man down, they are SO go a notch up. Well done All Blacks
One important stat. SA successful tackles 206. Insane.
I love you Kiwi guys, so much respect, thank you, I bit different from all the other supporters hate that we have seen against South Africa. Well done in the final, great game! Hope next world cup will be yours (lets keep it in the SH). Much love for all of yous! Love the pod as well, thanks for an awesome WC.
With regards to the Ardie penalty, Barnes NEVER admitted to being wrong, he said he saw it different to how it was presented in the replay, and it was a millisecond call.
Ardie asked the ref if he saw the replay, to which Barnes replied
"I didn't see the replay, I thought you stayed on him, you didn't come off him enough." His actual words.
I understand some of the comments in the show are coming from a positiin of pain. Good discussion none the less...and comiserations. You guys were excellent snd should feel proud. We look forward to cheering you all the way next time. Keep it between us 😊
Amazing how the Boks kicking was under the spotlight, how the tables turned in knock out rugby
Great commentary. Channel gets my support.
Id just love to hear the take about the TMO if the ref just awarded the Kurt Lee Arendse “try” without checking the grounding or foot in touch. It’s the same principle. If you are going to check the legality of the one, you have to check the legality of the other. How would it be right to award the NZ try when there’s an obvious and clear knock, just because the ref missed it, but not aware the Kurt Lee “try” when the ref couldn’t see the grounding and foot in touch and had to check the TMO. It’s completely arbitrary to say: we should go back so many phases. Either you use replays to get obvious calls right (and the Savea call was a 50/50), the knock on was clear as daylight. or you don’t.
This was refreshingly objective, I enjoyed listening to you guys. Respect.
With SA playing in the URC we saw how involved TMOs were in the Northern Hemisphere games. Before the world cup we said this WC is going to be decided by cards as too much emphasis is placed on big collisions. We just thought the Springboks being physical would be the one to get the cards. It seems they adjusted a lot for the World Cup, as they almost stopped contenting kicks and rather waited for the ball to land.
The Boks discipline in defence was brilliant, despite some boneshaking defence, they were mostly legit, even Siyas tackle he lowered his body
Barnes didn't apologise for making a mistake but continued to allow the penalty. English people use the word sorry in general conversation not to only apologise and it seems the context of the word here has been misunderstood.
Good discussion.
But with Frizell, definitely a deliberate move. He eyes Mbonambi right before he drives his shoulder into his leg while still holding his head. It’s not about his inability to roll away 😂 A little AB bias creeping in there, I think.
I’d even consider that a red.
Purely accidental, ...show me where you seen his eyes
@@glengee4462 @26:50 of this video. He knows where and how Mbonambi is situated, immediately after he drives his left shoulder and arm into Mbonambi.
@@jasonmiles7607 I just can't shake the feeling off that it was intentional. I pray it wasn't, but you can see how aware he was in his controlled movement.
Bryn was ABSOLUTELY correct by correcting everyone else that was NOT what WB said. He said he did not see the replay, but "sorry" that was not how he saw Ardi's "jackle" as being legal. There was no clear daylight in allowing Vermeulen to place the ball - and that was what WB blew and hat he meant. The panel's subsequent discussion about having to go back and reiview the decision is thus superfluous.
What was Frizell's intent grabbing bongi around the neck in the cleanout? Were his intentions pure😂. You want inconsistencies, de Groot collapsing the scrum three times without being penalised, RG being penalised for coming through the middle of the maul leading to the all blacks' try, all blacks scrumming early on the second last scrum and not conceding a short arm, all blacks throwing in scew into the lineouts three times in the first half without conceding a scrum.
Please complain about the inconsistencies on both sides.
Fritzell was dirty, should have been a red. Very, very lucky to just get a yellow.
Losing the ball forward in their "try"...
As for the mics on water carriers, I think that's a great idea.. I think most Kiwi's might get confused when listing to so much Xhosa conversation but it least we'd cut back on the "SIDE" show.
On the head contacts, I don't understand why Kiwi pundits are struggling so much with this:
1) Sam Cains' was picture perfect red card. It'll probably be used by WR as an example of what not to do. Shoulder to face, no drop in height.... illegal.
2) Kolisi's I'd argue wasn't even a yellow. He was bent at the waist. His primary point of contact was shoulder to body. His head then hits the ball and bounces up. It's not DIRECT head contact. It's not dangerous. It's at most a penalty, and probably just a "rugby incident". Go to 29:02 and use the . key to go forward frame by frame. Shoulder, ball, head.
3) Kriels' lack of a card. There are angles that show the heads move past each-other. The SCo player bounces off the ball which is being carried under his chin. There;s enough doubt there to wonder if head contact even happened. We don't card player if they might have done something wrong, we card them when it's clear and obvious. Sam Cain's card was clear and Obvious.
Alot of respect and Props for Bryn Hall and James I agree there is alot of frustration regarding TMO decisions throughout the Tournament or the involvement of the TMO not just in the Final but throughout the Tournament. This is a good Unbiased and down the middle Commentary on Rugby matters way better than the Drivel and EMOTIVE Vitriol from John Kirwin and Jeff Wilson who are mostly part of the Old Boys Club and Dagg from sky nz
Absolutely agree!
the ABS with RAZOR going to be a Beast the guy has charisma is gonna be rassie erasmus of NZ rugby@@HeeniKeke
@@Againstdhawa We definitely hope so. We are losing some great players so he has a huge workload ahead of him.
Only thing none of us can control is …we can only hope that RWC get their act together for next cup….but end of day we play what we are given…all the best…and gratz on your 4th Cup title…Massive feat!
Nothing I can say to console the Kiwis, but feel like mentioning. I didn't give them any chance after France. What they have done since then, shows why they are considered by many as the best in the World. What an amazing turnaround and they could have won that final. Naturally happy for South Africa, but a special word of thanks and congrats to the Kiwis. See you again soon for yet another monster of a game. NZ rugby looks good for 2027. Love from SA.
I wish the northern hemisphere rugby pundits can watch this podcast. There's no bragging of how the best their team are. How they have the best 15 world wide. It's about rugby pure rugby, the pros and cons of the game. So nice and refreshing. Gentlemen, big ups to you. From a south African
very gracious and balanced comments in this video, hats off to you Kiwi guys for sportsmanship. Cheers from a Pumas fan in Buenos Aires
On the Ardie "turnover". Ardie saw the replay and said to the ref he released the ref said "sorry mate I didn't see the replay, I thought you stayed on him, didn't come off it enough" Where in that statement did he apparently admit he got the call wrong? He literally said I didn't see the replay and explained why he gave the penalty and then the Sky commentators lost their minds. That's why New Zealand watched a different game then the rest of the world
Ardie defenitely deserved it last yeat as well. He always plays well, even if the ABs has an off day. Think World Rugby might be a year behind on the award, as Eben could have gotten it last 3 years as well, so maybe next year.
Well done Ardie. You are one of my favourite players --- from a Bok supporter
The Boks took the hardest route in history to winning the WC, their game management and BMT got them the cup. We adapted our game plan when needed, we scored tries when needed and this side is the greatest WC team in the history of the game. We can debate some decisions but that has always been the case, no ine cried when Warburton got red carded against France and a very good Welsh team got knocked out. Its tough as a supporter to watch the small margins go against you but that the way the game goes.
I was actually quite sad to see Wales robbed of their place in the final that year.
South Africa have a suspicious habit of being on the right side of robberies when it really counts in World Cups. France semi final 1995. Probably the final in 1995. England robbed of try 2007 final. France kick unfairly blocked down this years quarter, England penalised in scrum in wrong call to let SA kick for final place. Kolisi runs into Cane's arm and Cane gets a red card even though he had zero forward momentum (unlike the elbow to the face he got earlier or the later SA headcharge)
@@cigh7445We've won it 4 times. There's no luck there, pal. You guys can try to discredit us as much as you like but you can count the trophies 🏆🏆🏆🏆
@@cigh7445 You need some tissues for those tears mate? You can try discredit us all you want but history won’t remember you folks trying to discredit us. History will remember us winning those WC’s and in 2023 having the hardest route to the final and winning it against our arch rivals to win a historic 4th WC. You gents need to learn how to lose, it’s becoming embarrassing with all this whinging. I thought that’s what the Poms do
Thanks for the fantastic coverage during the world cup. Thoroughly enjoyed it
The NZ pundits only review certain parts of the game that effected them negatively. Then the South African pundits will only review parts of the game that negatively effected them.
No one is looking at any of this objectively, but rather coming from very biased opinions based on which team they support.
Rugby values are gone mate. They love to harp on about it, but it has changed.
As always, great pod gentlemen. Could not see too much wrong with the analysis. Congratulations to Ardie Savea, well deserved. See you in the next one.
There appears to be this mass delusion from some NZ supporters over the Savea incident, Barnes did not admit fault he apologized for the fact that he doesn't agree with Savea and I saw no clear release. And there wasn't any clear release. But I have said it adpot the captains challenge from league.
Ross I applaud you - excellent moderator, you nailed it on this episode - bringing balance to the discussion
TMO was introduced into the game to assist referees make correct decisions... let's live with it
But the TMO didn't consistently help the ref make correct decisions. He got involved sometimes when when he felt like it and other times he didn't get involved.
One time he alerted the ref to foul play which when checked by the bunker was deemed not to be foul play. The ref didn't think so at the time either. I.E. The Frizell penalty and yellow.
Originally the TMO was someone the ref could call on when he needed more info, e.g. To check.a grounding, and or a foot over the side line during a grounding. Need to go back to that.
@peterclareburt4594 the TMO will alert the ref to certain incidents that only technology can pick up... what's the point of having live technology if the TMO ignores it
Correct decisions were made at least.....well the try went forward but apart from that it was fine
@@dn822 the bunker reversed the TMO and the refs reasons for penalizing Frizzel, and of course the ball was passed backwards but travelled forward a little. That scenario has been covered off many times over the years.
Until the boks lose to the TMO then lets get rid of it ayyyy. If not then ayyy i am wrong and you are right. P.S. not a AB or Bok supporter but will always call out one eyed fans and silly comments.
Always a pleasure to listen to commentators that knows their story.
Agree was all so close, it was well matched game. If that Barrett penalty kick had landed between the 2 poles, don’t think my beloved Bokke would have come back. I’m South African but honestly that missed penalty was what had Bokke win. Hard luck ABs, bloody well done Bokke who’d basically played at least 2 finals 2 weekends ahead(against France& England)💚💛
Edit: also ABs had wrong strategy trying to break an impenetrable Bokke defence…too much energy wasted on it. It wasn’t going to be enough to win them the game. And that is what makes SA coaching superior, understand the team you’re playing and what’s needed to win to next round or to lift trophy
Yep as soon as he missed it I knew it was game over, Jordie has insane power on his kicks but his Accuracy has never been top tier , kicking cost us this game
When he was lining up to take it I knew he would miss it, he was all nerves. Mannie Libbok also struggled with this throughout. I am glad sanity prevailed within the Boks and Pollard was given the reigns
I don't think the strategy was wrong we were breaching the bok line one try we scored but got called back for a knock on at the lineout,we scored the second opportunity.
We also had another try scoring opportunity in the 73 min we had an overlap and the Boks only had one player back near their 22.
The bok winger intentionally knocked the ball down resulting in a yellow card and a penalty but we lost the opportunity to score a try and also lost the opportunity for field position which would have given us the opportunity to get points from kicks closer to the posts.
I think the bad decision they made was to kick for the corner rather than take easy shots at goal in those tight games you need to take the easy points that are offered to you because points are so hard to come by and South Africa understands that.
Kolisi not passing the ball with an over lap which should have been an almost certain try, Boks held up over the line, Faf's charge down which could have gone anywhere, Pollard's drop charged down, ifs, ifs ifs. Both sides had chances to score more points.
BTW - both AB missed kicks were difficult kicks. Not a surprise that it were missed.
Hi gents, I am South African and I love the show, so appreciate the dialogue and the insights you offer on important questions, completely understand some of the frustrations. I think to offer an alternative perspective from an SA point of view, because often if you win you tend not to criticise marginal calls on either side, but from a SA perspective I think I could offer two critical moments for us that are overlooked because of the win, one being Siya's second half run and de Allende nearly getting over, he is tackled short by Jordie I think and is never released for a recycle but instead pulled over the line by Barrett and it is called held up instead of a potential penalty or quick recycle and try, so I felt that was marginal enough to feel agrieved. The other instance was Faf's out the back pass which was called forward but off which Willie appears to have potentially scored a try, for me these 2 instances would have been massive calls for me. Potentially would have been more frustrated by these calls had we lost but in the end we ended up on the correct side of the score. So I agree there are often marginal calls that can have big impacts on the outcome of the game, I feel maybe in this instance our opportunities seem to be overlooked as if NZ had all the lost opportunities to win the game, save for some marginal calls but my feelings are that we had missed opportunities too for the score to potentially be higher, save for some marginal calls from an SA perspective. Just a different perspective to keep the referee decisions in context on both sides, in a contest separated by a 1 point margin.
The TMO in rugby is getting it 80 percent right and that's very good for the game even if they are always in the game as long as the right decision is been made that's all that matters even if the game needs to be stopped that's fine we want the best and fairest decision as possible must be taken the TMO in this world cup was getting it more right then wrong and that's all that matters
As a Bok supporter I am ecstatic we won and feel we fully deserve it. The ABs had their chances and in that sense sport is very cruel. Wayne Barnes had an excellent match.
I do want to point out, that we can all benefit from simplifying the laws of the game, and even doing away with a lot of them. At the moment there is a lot of subjectivity in how they are interpreted and applied. Just think of how the refs need to make a decision in a second and we expect them to always get it right. It's impossible.
But we can make it easier for the refs, the players and the fans to enjoy the game we love so much. Simplify the laws. Expand the game.
PS I was gutted for Sam Cane, but the way the All Blacks responded was incredible. What a match.
That is what Rassie was trying to say but was criticized and banned for it. So let's all reflect and not forget about that situation which he took on the chin. Granted he was part of an organization, be that as it may.
Excellent show and analysis lads. Springbok fan here and I am obviously delighted and over the moon. However the all Blacks needs to hold their heads high. They played a tremendous game. I absolutely agree on your takes on the inconsistencies with reffing as well as TMO's. It needs to be looked at. This time the Boks navigated the perilous path. Hope to see common sense changes going forward.
I remember when the southern hemisphere teams played in the north they got penalised for everything. So they went back and learnt how to play the north rules but with the south mentality and so we dominated . The north thought they had the games in the bag you cannot beat the southern hemisphere temperament.
Well said
good discussion - another moment that wasn’t even reviewed by the ref or tmo was the Barrett try where the pass appeared to go forward - not just 😢bounced - puts and takes both ways - I agree O’Keefe was good and ref’d the previous games Boks in - as you say overall the Boks played all the top teams and had the winning streak they needed, ABs had there chances - you can’t argue with that 👍
Commiserations boys, from Brisbane ... but, life goes on ...
Great analysis! I agree about the refereeing. As a South African and Springbok supporter, I was also frustrated with the inconsistent Referee decisions. Ultimately, both sides want to contest and win a fair game.
I thought you were gonna discuss how the Springboks won the world cup? Like an analysis type of thing. But the whole conversation was around Wayne Barnes and the TMO?
De Groot's call was because both players went in low. The defending Springbok went down as well to make an attempted "legal" tackle (hinging at the waist with wrapping arms). A similar situation also happened, Willemse tried to milk a penalty for a high tackle (while he was falling to the ground), but the ref told him he went down. So even though there was an arm around the neck, the NZ player attempted to make a legal tackle (low enough). Coming back to De Groot, if we wanted the SB to go even lower the only other tackle would've been around the legs, which in many cases is illegal if it's a "grass cutter" (and can also be extremely dangerous for both the defender and runner), so basically that means De Groot should've just been allowed to run through with no attempted tackle from the defending SB.
Frizel intentionally tried to take mbonambi out. He can't be so bad at the loose ruck and he isn't that bad. Disappointing approach by the abs
hes a thug
Have to say. It’s too much of coincidence that it was hooker in first 3 mins. Very suspect. Hooker and 9 would’ve been target by ABs coz 7/1
All Blacks & Springboks will always be the best because the undying respect and love between the teams and all the fans! We celebrate and commiserate each other equally.
Jesus, Lord Jesus has South Africa’s. Back in the rugby. Hallelujah, hallelujah. Hallelujah.
By per luck
Great Show guys I realize that this loss to Boks is a bit of a bitter pill to swallow for All of NZ but great assessment of the Final on the whole especially with regard to the knock-on at the line-out 2-Phases being a Guideline and all for TMO.... Again enjoyed watching Podcast as always.
With regards to that last scrum. Of course Faf isn't going to play the ball if NZ engages early. Also, what about the All black number 21 who plays Faf without the ball, while rotating around to the back of the South African scrum?
Finally someone else said it!!!
Howzit guys! As a Saffa, I just love this podcast. The way you analyse the game, no bias at all. If NZ would have won this world cup they would have been fully deserving of the title, hats of to all NZ players and fans, huge respect to you guys!
Loved the episode and the objectivity. Do agree with the issues raised and needs to be addressed for the greater good of the game. Will take the win and celebrate it but it was frustrating to watch.
Congrats, great analysis, objectivity, best example of a rugby show!
As a Saffa, I still can’t understand why the AB’s didn’t take the points when they were on offer. You don’t get points for “style” of play. 🤷♂️ AB’s played like demons though 👌🏾
We got the try, we missed conversion, we missed penalty kick so why single out the penalty kick for touch decision made by coach btw and a right call.
There were three shocking tmo calls and im not referring to Cane.
As a kiwi ...they didn't take kicks..cos they're stupid..sigh
I cant understand how you can only chuck 1 point on a 14 man team.... oh well a win is a win. People get inspired by that.
You like many AB fans, was screaming at the screen to take the points. Had to have a few beers after that game!
Yeah I mean
Don't think Sam cane should have gotten red card .
all blacks knocked ball forward great pass form faf de klerk and try scored ref calls boks back without playing advantage.
All blacks try video footage shows ball going forward.