As a Twins fan and having watched Joe Mauer play most of his career, there are some things that stats don't cover when considering how great a player is and how much impact they have on the game. For starters, Joe was respected by EVERYBODY in baseball. You could see it in every game he played. He never had a bad attitude and even garnered respect from umpires. He was such a natural talent and he played the game about as honest and pure as one can. I know these things can't be put in documentation, but I think of the similarity he has when regarding Ken Griffey Jr. when he was inducted. Griffey had the highest % of HoF votes for any player and, while deserving of it, he didn't have amazing seasons every year he played, in fact some were worse than most at the time. His time in the spotlight was pushed to heavy celebrity status, unlike Joe's. But overall, both were perfect examples of honest, pinnacle of play performances. It's the understanding of what type of player they are aside from stats and how they are looked up to by others in the league that hold weight for the fickle decision-making of HoF voters. Some things that cannot be quantified can hold great value and I'm confident the HoF will see that as well when it's his time.
If Mauer gets in, then Justin Morneau should get in. The take I have on Mauer is he never played the catcher in games played every year he played catcher. Like Bench, Rodriguez, Berra, Fisk, Piazza, etc. Bench, for example, in his first 3 years play over 150 games at catcher, over 140 games in his 2nd year and over 130 games in his 3rd. Mauer played over 130 games in his career 1 time/year. He also played only 1 other position in the field...1st base. Bench played 3rd, 1st and outfield. Mauer played catcher over 100 games in parts of 5 seasons. In his final 3 seasons at catcher, his big salary seasons of his huge contract and top 10 paid salary of any year of his contract, he played catcher 52 times in 2011, 74 times in 2012, 75 times in 2013 and 1 at bat/pitch in 2018. In 2004, just to add, he only played in 32 games. So saying he played catcher for 10 years is a lot overstated. He was a great hitter when he did played even though he had little power. I think the Hall of Fame will look at those games played at catcher, times at DH. Also how many games he missed/didn't played every year of his career. He was a great guy but if that gets him in, then a much better producer in runs. Justin Morneau, should get in.
@@hartspacevachon again...if you read what I just wrote earlier, he will definitely have a tough time getting in. Especially the first year. To add, he never was on a team that won even a playoff game. It would seem in ten games, he would have helped them, caught them at least one win. Being one of the nicest guys' in baseball doesn't mean Hall of Fame. If that's the case, Justin Morneau, the Twins best Home run and RBI man the past 20 years gets in too.
@@garycrabb9805 dude this isn't football or whatever other sport your thinking is the standard. The respect of your peers is more important than if you won games or not. Justin Morneau isn't a hall of fame player. He was a very good player but that's just it. He played a different position so first off you can compare the 2. Second off yeah he didn't play that many games behind the plate and look at his line now imagine if he did play more games there.
@@hartspacevachon "Dude" I am thinking baseball. Justin Morneau- MVP. runner-up in 2008, would have been in 2010 if not hurt, 4 straight years of 100 or more RBIS. (Which JOE NEVER EVER DID) And Justin was respected and a extremely nice guy. Joe was a excellent role model baseball player too. No question. But again, Joe took a lot of time off. DH, days off even hurt. The Twins paid Joe because he was a product of Minnesota, a great hitter when he played and the most important...would be the catcher and hitter he was in 2009! Sorry but starting in 2011, he was hurt and never again played at least 100 games at catcher. He also didn't play 1st base very regular either 100 games in 2014, 137 was the most in 2015 and 125 in 2017. For catchers, see Piazza, Bench, Berra, Fisk, Rodriguez, etc. First basemen see Musial. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell. Thomas, etc. Joe just doesn't measure up because of GAMES PLAYED. He had a bunch of time off. All throughout of his career. 2007-109 games, 2011-82 games, 2013- 113 games, 2014-120 games. And every season he played- he played either DH or sat out a lot of games. Nothing compared to those hall of fame players. Just my thoughts and probably not etched in stone...the Hall of Fame committee will look at. Good luck. Justin Morneau deserves in too. So does one of my favorites and a great ambassador of the sport, Mark Grace!!
Having to learn how to play 1B that late into his career was an accomplishment on its own. Also, 2017 Mauer should have one a GG at first I think he made 2 errors the entire season or something like that. But for whatever reason people have this “he plays a power position” that penalized him. But in the modern era of baseball, all positions are guys who can hit for power.
Couldn't it be said, since all positions have guys who can hit for power (generally) doesn't that make Mauer's lack of power for the position of 1B all that more glaring?
@@timmutohfan See also Rod Carew, who made the transition to first base out of a concern for injuries. Mauer was never a base-thief, but if one is good enough at getting on base one does not have any complaint about a lack of power or speed. Look at it this way: Rod Carew made both Harmon Killebrew and Reggie Jackson all the more dangerous for clogging up the base-paths in front of those sluggers.
@@stybur19 Reread what I wrote. I wanted to see his take on Utley's case for the Hall, to see if he did have a chance or not. After all, the period he was hurt seems to have hurt his chances.
@@stybur19 oh really it so ridiculous to even think Utley is a hall of famer because of how "prestigious" the hall is? Barry Larkin, a short stop, typically a better offensive position had career stats .295 avg /198 HR /960 Rbi = HOF'er Utley - 259 HR / .275 avg / 1025 rbi... Oh and 6x all star and a top player at his position for almost a decade. = "Bum. Not prestigious enough"
Mauer is one of those WHAT IF? If it wasn't for the multiple concussions is he able to still hit for a high average? I think he would have. He wasn't a power hitter he just had godlike hand eye coordination. So even as age would have cought up to him he would have still been fine.
yes,he was so good in the field,put the Ro ckies on the map,had he not had a back injury,he would gave easily hit over 400 HRs,glad he was loyal and didn't go after the money with the Yankees!
Another case of two careers: before back injury and after. It's a real shame we didn't see more of pre-injury Helton otherwise this wouldn't even be a question.
See the thing about the MLB HoF vs the other sports is that the other sports let the "hall of very good" guys into their HoF. I mean football does this all the time. I tend to like the "big tent" HoF style... Dudes like Joe Mauer, Jim Edmonds, Fred McGriff, and Andy Pettitte are definitely on the cusp and probably deserve to have more conversation around their HoF case.
You are forgetting something huge that has nothing to do with stats, the sportswriters like Joe Mauer, hes a guy who grew up and played for the home team, and didn't take the big deal from the Yankees or Dodgers. It was no fluke that Joe Mauer was the face of the MLB and MLB the Show. The Sportswriters hate Barry Bonds, and surprise surprise hes not in the hall of fame.
I think another important thing to remember about Ivan Rodriguez barely getting into the hall, is that he was named by Jose Canseco in the book "Juiced" as a steroid user, and that every other player named in the book (Juan Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark Mcgwire, and Jason Giambi) all either tested positive or were found with steroids. I think that had more to do with Pudge's rougher road to Cooperstown.
Mauer should be inducted as he had one of the ten best primes of any catcher in MLB history. On another note, you misunderstood the dWAR stat. His dWAR at 1B is only negative because it includes the positional adjustment (which is negative for first basemen). On fielding alone, he was 23 runs above average as a first baseman from 2014-2018, or about 2.5 wins.
I may be incredibly biased as a twins fans, but Joe absolutely deserves this honor. He was a great catcher and an above average firatbase men. His stats can get him in also who doesn't like a hometown kid staying a hometown kid.
Im still kinda confused at how u said Mauer was at LEAST top 10 in the league in every defensive metric had OVER a 50%CS rate and lead the league in fielding% yet you call him an "Average Defensive Catcher"🤔
@@mattthompson9351 lmao makes so much more sense...it is crazy tho IF THAT'S TRUE how being healthy and being consistent REALLY is that valuable think how crazy it is that only 11catchers played in half the games in that 4 year span to qualify for fielding percentage leaderboard
I think the low vote turnout of Pudge to the HoF us more due to his later years being overshadowed by the home run chase and the attentions of fellow stud catcher Mike Piazza, as well as being saddled with some terrible teams at the start and tail end of his career. I'm also a Twins fan, but as just a baseball fan I believe Mauer should be inducted based on his entire body of work as a player on the field as well as being an outstanding MLB ambassador off the field.
I think he'll get in as well based on the fact (in part) he was a consummate professional his entire career as well and was with one team. The numbers may be slightly above what is needed, but his total person will help I'd have to think
If not for a retarded manager pulling him in his last start He would have joined a class of only 3 other pitchers to pitch 200 innings 15 straight seasons
Really well-done analysis. Being a lifelong Twins fan, I've mainly relied on the eye test when contemplating Joe's HOF case. My big knock on him is that his game-winning/altering hits highlight reel is pretty thin. Offensively, not much of a game-breaker. I would have liked to have seen him break the 100 runs or RBI's/200 hits thresholds at least once or play 150+ games more than once in his 15 seasons, but his individual accolades as a catcher should get him in.
Please....Mark Grace would make a great video and should be in the Hall of Fame before anyone retired right now. More hits and doubles than anyone in the 1990s.
He definitely should. I can't remember a more dominant catcher than Joe. He is the only catcher to ever win an AL batting title, much less 3 of them! He also won three consecutive Gold Glove Awards (2008-2010), five Silver Slugger Awards (including three in a row) and the 2009 AL Most Valuable Player (MVP) Award. As of 2020, he is the most recent catcher to win (or even place in the top three in the voting) the MVP award in the American League.
Was Mauer an All-Star at 1B? No. Was he robbed of a Gold Glove at 1B in 2017? Yes. If he’d won that popularity contest, I don’t think people would look so poorly at his time at 1B. Regardless, during near decade long career as a C, he accomplished things no catcher ever has.
I agree completely. "Above-Average" doesn't sound like a great Hall of Fame argument, unless you are "Above-Average" all the players in that position currently in the Hall of Fame. I'm not certain he'll get in on the first ballot, though voters love a good story as well as good stats, and spending your entire career with your hometown team after being drafted #1 and despite being offered millions more to play in other markets (and I'm looking at you Yankees!) is a pretty good story,. Both Mauer and Morneau's numbers would have been better had Target Field been designed to favor left-handed batters. Talk about a couple of guys who had their careers derailed by concussions!
All i can say is .306 batting average in 6930 at bats Over 2000 hits 6x all star One time MVP Three time batting title AND the only catcher to win a batting title in the AL Three consecutive gold gloves If that doesnt scream HOF i dont know what does guys
You should also do a Torii Hunter Vid. I didn't realize he had nearly 2500 hits, 350 hrs and a .280 lifetime ba along with 9 gold gloves. I understand he and Andruw Jones are similar, but I believe if you can let Baines in, all these guys should get the call. Baines never had 9 gold gloves...
Joe Mauer is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for sure, in my opinion. He was the best catcher in the league during his prime years, which lasted longer than most catcher's prime years. I think his never being linked to PED's in an era that was still plagued with players using them should be a significant factor in the decision making process. Also, he was the lone bright spot for the Twins organization at different points in his career and many Twins fans consider him a major reason the Twins avoided being relocated (ie the Montreal Expos) and were able to get a new, baseball-only stadium.
3rd Basemen are terribly under-represented in the HOF compared to all other positions. Scott Rolen, Graig Nettles, Ken Boyer, Dick Allen, etc. all deserve some respect.
tbh i couldnt make it through the video, the stats were boring me... but when you're the face of a franchise for over a decade, and you're productive throughout...that should be a key factor. Joe put a lot of people in the seats, some were good teams, some were bad...regardless, he was one of the main draws. when you watched the twins, you knew he was going to do something that made you go, wow
Mauer's case is pretty interesting i always thought ppl viewed him as a slam dunk HOFer but do you brush aside the last 7yrs of his career? I mean there are plenty of ppl who had great peaks but injuries kept them out of the hall....sure Ernie banks wasn't a HOF 1B but lmao he hit over 500 Hrs (like top 8 when he retired)and had a 500 career slugging i didn't like that comparison from that writer😂
Great video! Being a Twins fan & having watched Mauer his whole career I was somewhat on the fence but I know how much we love him here in Minnesota. I have always thought with the MVP & 3 batting titles all while catching he should go in. The 3rd title puts him in. Go Joe!
Both have similar stats, TO had more power, shame he got hurt. I too would chose TO over Mauer. So if TO is not worthy JM is not either. Seen them both play and life long fan of the Twins.
I'm not sure he'll get in on the first ballot, but I think he should get in eventually. Also I think it would be interesting to cover Tony Oliva and Jim Kaat in your Hall of Fame Case series.
No way. As an MN guy, home town bias is basically all this dude ever was. Imo (and I'm a big MN sports fan) probly the most overrated baseball player ever. Shouldve never been in MVP contention, and hardly even all-star consideration.
@@sammyollie5133 Yeah and Mauer was on the most talented Twins teams in history and failed to step up or elevate the team in big moments. Never even got all that close to success... Guys like Posey, Molina , and quite a few more were more talented, more accomplished, yet got overshadowed by an inferior player.
Based on Joe's prime when he played Catcher, his play merits his inclusion in the Hall Of Fame. He won three batting titles, one MVP award, and was a six-time All-Star. He was in the top-ten in MVP voting four times during the five year period from years 2006 - 2010; he won three Gold Gloves and four Silver Sluggers during this five year period. Joe was the main reason the Twins won Division championships in 2006, 2009 and 2010. After physical problems forced Joe to stop playing Catcher and become a First-Baseman, Joe gave his best effort and became a very good fielder at First-Base. His last five years playing while physically diminished should not detract from his great seasons as a Catcher. Joe Mauer belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Hmmm.... "Mauer is a serviceable fielder." Actually, he ranks 5th ALL-TIME in 1B fielding %. He is the ONLY player in the top 10 of fielding percentage at two different position.
He barely played 1st base except in 3 years of his career. One of those 100 games. He never played a full year at catcher. He played several games at DH. He did great when he played 1st base and catcher. I just think they will compare him with the greats of the game at both of those positions and the GAMES played at those positions and say he had a lot of off times/rest those years. The others played more games and less rest/time off. Just my take on this. He is one of nice guys of the game along with his friend Justin Morneau.
Ozzie Smith is 23rd all time in fielding percentage at shortstop. JJ Hardy is 6th. Do you honestly think JJ Hardy was a better defender than Ozzie Smith? Hopefully you don't, so stop using fielding percentage. It's a garbage stat.
@@SgtHolton now that you brought that up...he sure had a lot of errors during his time. And face it, when it came to batting avg, on base pct, home runs. RBIS, OPS..Slugging Pct etc...he kind of sucked...badly. He may have had 2400 hits but he played 19 years. Which means he barely had over 100 hits a year. His career OPS...- .666 yuck. So you are telling me these are great stats for a HOFer?? Please. And to add..Hardy did have less errors, better OPS but no way is he a HOFer..
@@garycrabb9805 Ozzie Smith is the greatest defensive shortstop in the history of baseball. All the defensive metrics bear that out, and anyone who watched him play defense agrees he was the greatest shortstop defender ever. That's how you put up a career WRC+ of 90 and still have 67 fWAR to JJ Hardy's 27.
@@SgtHolton must be a St. Louis fan. But he is no Jeter, Garciaparra, Visquel, Ripken, etc. Why are you comparing him to JJ Hardy? Sorry but he was a decent player but HOFer...no!! Go Cubs!
And you didn't take into account that Ivan Rodriguez had been mentioned in connection with PEDs. I'm not to say whether he used them or not, but I'm sure it had some bearing on how many votes he got on the first ballot.
Catcher is the most important anf hardest defensive position any person who can play catcher AT ALL even if they don't there whole career should make the hof if they hit like mauer, Yoder molina will be in the hof as he should for his defense bc catcher is so important to defense and a peak mauer was better at the plate then almost any catcher outside of Johnny bench
Thurman Munson or Joe Mauer.....Munson isn't a hall of famer...Would you take Mauer over Munson?...... Mauer had poor production numbers and chocked in the playoffs...didn't take over a series or game....Clutch and Joe Mauer...don't add up.....
To nitpick one statement: David Ortiz was absolutely That Guy™️ at the end In his final season he was an all star, won the silver slugger and placed 6th in the MVP voting. He had 87 extra base hits including a league leading 48 doubles and 38 homer runs (respectively the second and fourth highest single season totals of his incredible offensive career) He led the league with 127 RBI (his 4th best total) and posted an excellent 80 BB to 86 K mark. His slash line of .315/.401/.620 (the latter being the leagues best slugging mark) was good for a league leading 1.021 OPS. 4th best of his career but actually his 1 time leading the league his 164 OPS+ was the third best in his career and he led the league in intentional walks. So yes. David Ortiz was unequivocally That Guy™️ at the end
I’m a life long Twins fan . I think Joe Mauer from St.Paul great athlete. Deserves to be in Twins Hall of fame. Great career. Number retired. Awesome. But Cooperstown is different top 1% Yes he won 3 batting titles 2006,2008,2009 . He was not behind the plate for every game He had big games hitting those years as a DH. Those DH at bats effect his average. Those other catchers in National league won those batting titles catching. No DH in National league. Stop using computer stats. 300 wins 500 homeruns 3000 hits. RBI’s . He was a great hitter. During those years 2006-2013 he caught 772 games out of a possible 1296 Avg 97 games per year out of 162. 920 games in 15 years He didn’t catch enough games Look up the numbers on baseball reference. Subtract DH plate appearances from his numbers . Then see if he wins batting titles. They don’t even talk about winning batting titles anymore. The talk about OPS. WAR
HOF catcher WHEN HE ACTUALLY PLAYED THAT POSITION. I think he will get in and it certainly won't annoy me, but he wouldn't get my vote. 921 games played at the catcher position and 915 games as a DH, or playing another position. You want to get in the HOF as a catcher? Then you've got to actually CATCH for the majority of your career.
Any sport? How about the NHL. - Patrick Marleau - Rob Brind A'Mour - Roberto Luongo - Joe Thornton - Zach Parise - Eric Staal - Blake Wheeler - David Krejci Some of these cases are easy, some are more difficult.
Lou Whitaker Mickey Lolich Thurman Munson Dwight Evans Billy Wagner Dave Concepcion Omar Vizquel Ron Guidry Jim Kaat Keith Hernandez Dave Parker Bill Freehan Bernie Williams Dick Allen
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And Mauer had 1 error in 1 year at first base and still didn't win the golden glove
@Val Venus that is racist because you judging someone on skin color instead of their stats
THIS should get more attention!! How he didn't win a gold glove that year at first base....beyond me
@@joshjessen1397 That year was during peak Eric Hosmer hype if I recall. Joe shoulda had it by a landslide that year imo
@@joshjessen1397 And being a guy who has won a Gold Glove at two positions would have been pretty rare as well
Errors are bad stats
As a Twins fan and having watched Joe Mauer play most of his career, there are some things that stats don't cover when considering how great a player is and how much impact they have on the game. For starters, Joe was respected by EVERYBODY in baseball. You could see it in every game he played. He never had a bad attitude and even garnered respect from umpires. He was such a natural talent and he played the game about as honest and pure as one can. I know these things can't be put in documentation, but I think of the similarity he has when regarding Ken Griffey Jr. when he was inducted. Griffey had the highest % of HoF votes for any player and, while deserving of it, he didn't have amazing seasons every year he played, in fact some were worse than most at the time. His time in the spotlight was pushed to heavy celebrity status, unlike Joe's. But overall, both were perfect examples of honest, pinnacle of play performances. It's the understanding of what type of player they are aside from stats and how they are looked up to by others in the league that hold weight for the fickle decision-making of HoF voters. Some things that cannot be quantified can hold great value and I'm confident the HoF will see that as well when it's his time.
If Mauer gets in, then Justin Morneau should get in. The take I have on Mauer is he never played the catcher in games played every year he played catcher. Like Bench, Rodriguez, Berra, Fisk, Piazza, etc. Bench, for example, in his first 3 years play over 150 games at catcher, over 140 games in his 2nd year and over 130 games in his 3rd. Mauer played over 130 games in his career 1 time/year. He also played only 1 other position in the field...1st base. Bench played 3rd, 1st and outfield. Mauer played catcher over 100 games in parts of 5 seasons. In his final 3 seasons at catcher, his big salary seasons of his huge contract and top 10 paid salary of any year of his contract, he played catcher 52 times in 2011, 74 times in 2012, 75 times in 2013 and 1 at bat/pitch in 2018. In 2004, just to add, he only played in 32 games. So saying he played catcher for 10 years is a lot overstated. He was a great hitter when he did played even though he had little power. I think the Hall of Fame will look at those games played at catcher, times at DH. Also how many games he missed/didn't played every year of his career. He was a great guy but if that gets him in, then a much better producer in runs. Justin Morneau, should get in.
Lets be real Joe is a HoFer Hes one of the best catchers in the last 20 years. Hes a respected guy. Great defensive catcher and a very good hitter
@@hartspacevachon again...if you read what I just wrote earlier, he will definitely have a tough time getting in. Especially the first year. To add, he never was on a team that won even a playoff game. It would seem in ten games, he would have helped them, caught them at least one win. Being one of the nicest guys' in baseball doesn't mean Hall of Fame. If that's the case, Justin Morneau, the Twins best Home run and RBI man the past 20 years gets in too.
@@garycrabb9805 dude this isn't football or whatever other sport your thinking is the standard. The respect of your peers is more important than if you won games or not. Justin Morneau isn't a hall of fame player. He was a very good player but that's just it. He played a different position so first off you can compare the 2. Second off yeah he didn't play that many games behind the plate and look at his line now imagine if he did play more games there.
@@hartspacevachon "Dude" I am thinking baseball. Justin Morneau- MVP. runner-up in 2008, would have been in 2010 if not hurt, 4 straight years of 100 or more RBIS. (Which JOE NEVER EVER DID) And Justin was respected and a extremely nice guy. Joe was a excellent role model baseball player too. No question. But again, Joe took a lot of time off. DH, days off even hurt. The Twins paid Joe because he was a product of Minnesota, a great hitter when he played and the most important...would be the catcher and hitter he was in 2009! Sorry but starting in 2011, he was hurt and never again played at least 100 games at catcher. He also didn't play 1st base very regular either 100 games in 2014, 137 was the most in 2015 and 125 in 2017. For catchers, see Piazza, Bench, Berra, Fisk, Rodriguez, etc. First basemen see Musial. Gehrig, Foxx, Bagwell. Thomas, etc. Joe just doesn't measure up because of GAMES PLAYED. He had a bunch of time off. All throughout of his career. 2007-109 games, 2011-82 games, 2013- 113 games, 2014-120 games. And every season he played- he played either DH or sat out a lot of games. Nothing compared to those hall of fame players. Just my thoughts and probably not etched in stone...the Hall of Fame committee will look at. Good luck. Justin Morneau deserves in too. So does one of my favorites and a great ambassador of the sport, Mark Grace!!
Having to learn how to play 1B that late into his career was an accomplishment on its own. Also, 2017 Mauer should have one a GG at first I think he made 2 errors the entire season or something like that. But for whatever reason people have this “he plays a power position” that penalized him. But in the modern era of baseball, all positions are guys who can hit for power.
Couldn't it be said, since all positions have guys who can hit for power (generally) doesn't that make Mauer's lack of power for the position of 1B all that more glaring?
@@timmutohfan See also Rod Carew, who made the transition to first base out of a concern for injuries. Mauer was never a base-thief, but if one is good enough at getting on base one does not have any complaint about a lack of power or speed. Look at it this way: Rod Carew made both Harmon Killebrew and Reggie Jackson all the more dangerous for clogging up the base-paths in front of those sluggers.
"Nobody is That Guy at the end."
David Ortiz: Hold my beer.
Nelson Cruz: Kag stand!!
Justin Verlander: Hold my beer
He wasn't That Guy in several early years with the Twins either
(Sandy Koufax has entered the chat)
Came here to say this.
If joe mauer doesn’t make it. Then that’s a SHAME
I agree he was such a great rookie p.s he was my favorite player
Good news, he made it
Love it! He's a hall of famer in my book. You should do Chase Utley next!
Outta Here Baseball good choice!
I agree. I like to see SportStorm's take on Utley's case for the Hall.
@@MrLeoni2 if you think Utley is a hall of famer than you clearly dont understand how prestigious the hall is supposed to be.
@@stybur19 Reread what I wrote. I wanted to see his take on Utley's case for the Hall, to see if he did have a chance or not. After all, the period he was hurt seems to have hurt his chances.
@@stybur19 oh really it so ridiculous to even think Utley is a hall of famer because of how "prestigious" the hall is?
Barry Larkin, a short stop, typically a better offensive position had career stats .295 avg /198 HR /960 Rbi = HOF'er
Utley - 259 HR / .275 avg / 1025 rbi... Oh and 6x all star and a top player at his position for almost a decade. = "Bum. Not prestigious enough"
David Wright won’t make the hall of fame, but I think it’s worth looking at how great he was for a short period of time
Joe did some crazy things that typical stats wont track. For instance, he broke up a no-hitter in the 9th inning on THREE separate occasions. Wow
I think Jim Edmonds deserved more love for the Hall. Great offense and power with 8 Gold Gloves in center field.
Dwight Evans. There's a strong case. It's an old one but as a red Sox fan it's where my mind went. Also he had a great mustache
Mauer is one of those WHAT IF? If it wasn't for the multiple concussions is he able to still hit for a high average? I think he would have. He wasn't a power hitter he just had godlike hand eye coordination. So even as age would have cought up to him he would have still been fine.
He's admitted his vision was blurry those final seasons and he STILL hit .270+ in the Majors
Intriguing hall of fame case: Todd Helton
He'll go if voters get over their bias about Colorado
yes,he was so good in the field,put the Ro ckies on the map,had he not had a back injury,he would gave easily hit over 400 HRs,glad he was loyal and didn't go after the money with the Yankees!
Another case of two careers: before back injury and after. It's a real shame we didn't see more of pre-injury Helton otherwise this wouldn't even be a question.
@@brandonsheumaker2673 no doubt
Lol Helton is a no brainer
The three batting titles alone as a catcher puts him in as far as I am concerned.
See the thing about the MLB HoF vs the other sports is that the other sports let the "hall of very good" guys into their HoF. I mean football does this all the time. I tend to like the "big tent" HoF style... Dudes like Joe Mauer, Jim Edmonds, Fred McGriff, and Andy Pettitte are definitely on the cusp and probably deserve to have more conversation around their HoF case.
You are forgetting something huge that has nothing to do with stats, the sportswriters like Joe Mauer, hes a guy who grew up and played for the home team, and didn't take the big deal from the Yankees or Dodgers. It was no fluke that Joe Mauer was the face of the MLB and MLB the Show. The Sportswriters hate Barry Bonds, and surprise surprise hes not in the hall of fame.
Barry Bonds is suspected of better performance through chemistry.
was surpried hometown player wasn't mentioned,that is huge,even SI talked about it!!!
Curt schilling is another guy they don’t like and that’s probably the best comparison to mauer in terms of name recognition and prestige
I think another important thing to remember about Ivan Rodriguez barely getting into the hall, is that he was named by Jose Canseco in the book "Juiced" as a steroid user, and that every other player named in the book (Juan Gonzalez, Rafael Palmeiro, Mark Mcgwire, and Jason Giambi) all either tested positive or were found with steroids. I think that had more to do with Pudge's rougher road to Cooperstown.
yeah,Pudge was a sure fire Hall of Famer,shouldn't have affect it!
@@t-squared6406 like bonds?
Mauer should be inducted as he had one of the ten best primes of any catcher in MLB history. On another note, you misunderstood the dWAR stat. His dWAR at 1B is only negative because it includes the positional adjustment (which is negative for first basemen). On fielding alone, he was 23 runs above average as a first baseman from 2014-2018, or about 2.5 wins.
Different video topic - best draft year ever by an MLB team
Pretty much every team: 2011
I may be incredibly biased as a twins fans, but Joe absolutely deserves this honor. He was a great catcher and an above average firatbase men. His stats can get him in also who doesn't like a hometown kid staying a hometown kid.
My choices
Billy Wagner
Dave Parker
John olerud
Keith Hernandez
SPM18 I definitely want to look at Keith Hernandez at some point
Billy Wagner's case comes down to: Do you believe the BEST left handed relief pitcher in history belongs in the Hall?
John Olerud you say?👀
Wagner should
Dave Parker and John Olerud, I’m on board with for the hall of fame.
Im still kinda confused at how u said Mauer was at LEAST top 10 in the league in every defensive metric had OVER a 50%CS rate and lead the league in fielding% yet you call him an "Average Defensive Catcher"🤔
There were only 11 catchers qualified
@@mattthompson9351 lmao makes so much more sense...it is crazy tho IF THAT'S TRUE how being healthy and being consistent REALLY is that valuable think how crazy it is that only 11catchers played in half the games in that 4 year span to qualify for fielding percentage leaderboard
I think the low vote turnout of Pudge to the HoF us more due to his later years being overshadowed by the home run chase and the attentions of fellow stud catcher Mike Piazza, as well as being saddled with some terrible teams at the start and tail end of his career. I'm also a Twins fan, but as just a baseball fan I believe Mauer should be inducted based on his entire body of work as a player on the field as well as being an outstanding MLB ambassador off the field.
Send joe to the HOF!
Mauer was a catcher who hit .306 over a a 15 year career. I think he absolutely should be in the hall.
I think he'll get in as well based on the fact (in part) he was a consummate professional his entire career as well and was with one team. The numbers may be slightly above what is needed, but his total person will help I'd have to think
Dwight Gooden...hear me out. Before the drugs, he was an absolute beast. He wasn’t a stats stacker like those goons on the Braves staff.
Mark buehrle has a very interesting hall of fame case. Consistently great for a long time (almost 60 rWar) but not dominant
If not for a retarded manager pulling him in his last start He would have joined a class of only 3 other pitchers to pitch 200 innings 15 straight seasons
How about Dave Parker, Lou Whitaker, Dale Murphy, or Jeff Kent.
They'd all have to be veterans committee, none of them are still on the ballot
@THE BRAIN SPECIALIST jeff Kent still on the ballot
The only one I would take out of all of the above is Sweet Lou.
Jeff kent got in
@@noah_that_bills_fan1613 nope, only 14%
Really well-done analysis. Being a lifelong Twins fan, I've mainly relied on the eye test when contemplating Joe's HOF case. My big knock on him is that his game-winning/altering hits highlight reel is pretty thin. Offensively, not much of a game-breaker. I would have liked to have seen him break the 100 runs or RBI's/200 hits thresholds at least once or play 150+ games more than once in his 15 seasons, but his individual accolades as a catcher should get him in.
How many HOFers played 4 or 5 years too many? Why should be penalized for retiring before his skills went down the tube?
Please do Don Mattingly. I know his numbers went down toward the end of his playing days but he had some monster seasons.
Who's here after Mauer got inducted?
As a twins fan, I really enjoyed this video. Keep up the great underrated content!
Tim Hortons Cup Series thank you!
Please....Mark Grace would make a great video and should be in the Hall of Fame before anyone retired right now. More hits and doubles than anyone in the 1990s.
Michael Young would be a great HOF video candidate. #2 hitter behind Ichiro for most of his career in Texas.
Am I the only one who didn’t know this was a case that had to be made? I just assumed he was one of those guys who was almost guaranteed a spot.
Mark Buehrle would be interesting for this kind of video, one of the few pitchers to get 200+ wins in the 21st century
Put Mauer in if Harold Baines made it. Standards are low right now.
Would love to see Johan Santana's case
Shame he fell off the ballot after only one year. His peak was almost Koufax like, though he didn't have the postseason accolades of Koufax.
He definitely should. I can't remember a more dominant catcher than Joe. He is the only catcher to ever win an AL batting title, much less 3 of them! He also won three consecutive Gold Glove Awards (2008-2010), five Silver Slugger Awards (including three in a row) and the 2009 AL Most Valuable Player (MVP) Award. As of 2020, he is the most recent catcher to win (or even place in the top three in the voting) the MVP award in the American League.
Thurman Munson, Gil Hodges, Tony Oliva.
I wish I could like this comment 3 times
Please do Todd Helton!! Love the videos!
David Wright next
The Ginja Ninja very interesting case I’d imagine
SportStorm
He was so good when healthy but he played injured for so long
this is chief
The Ginja Ninja I make baseball videos on my channel and it would mean a lot if you could support me.
Terrific player early on. Injuries hampered him and only the Mets would build a new stadium with dimensions that hurt their best player.
Plus he was on the cover of both the show 10 and 11
Was Mauer an All-Star at 1B? No. Was he robbed of a Gold Glove at 1B in 2017? Yes. If he’d won that popularity contest, I don’t think people would look so poorly at his time at 1B. Regardless, during near decade long career as a C, he accomplished things no catcher ever has.
I agree completely. "Above-Average" doesn't sound like a great Hall of Fame argument, unless you are "Above-Average" all the players in that position currently in the Hall of Fame.
I'm not certain he'll get in on the first ballot, though voters love a good story as well as good stats, and spending your entire career with your hometown team after being drafted #1 and despite being offered millions more to play in other markets (and I'm looking at you Yankees!) is a pretty good story,.
Both Mauer and Morneau's numbers would have been better had Target Field been designed to favor left-handed batters. Talk about a couple of guys who had their careers derailed by concussions!
All i can say is
.306 batting average in 6930 at bats
Over 2000 hits
6x all star
One time MVP
Three time batting title AND the only catcher to win a batting title in the AL
Three consecutive gold gloves
If that doesnt scream HOF i dont know what does guys
1 MVP, 3 batting titles and 39 war over his 7 year prime? Thats a HOFer bro. Thats not including ancillary awards and All star selections on top.
You should also do a Torii Hunter Vid. I didn't realize he had nearly 2500 hits, 350 hrs and a .280 lifetime ba along with 9 gold gloves. I understand he and Andruw Jones are similar, but I believe if you can let Baines in, all these guys should get the call. Baines never had 9 gold gloves...
Joe Mauer is a 1st ballot Hall of Famer for sure, in my opinion. He was the best catcher in the league during his prime years, which lasted longer than most catcher's prime years. I think his never being linked to PED's in an era that was still plagued with players using them should be a significant factor in the decision making process. Also, he was the lone bright spot for the Twins organization at different points in his career and many Twins fans consider him a major reason the Twins avoided being relocated (ie the Montreal Expos) and were able to get a new, baseball-only stadium.
3rd Basemen are terribly under-represented in the HOF compared to all other positions. Scott Rolen, Graig Nettles, Ken Boyer, Dick Allen, etc. all deserve some respect.
tbh i couldnt make it through the video, the stats were boring me...
but when you're the face of a franchise for over a decade, and you're productive throughout...that should be a key factor.
Joe put a lot of people in the seats, some were good teams, some were bad...regardless, he was one of the main draws.
when you watched the twins, you knew he was going to do something that made you go, wow
just found this channel love the content! PLEASE do Scott rolen!
Scott Rolen is a definite HOFer, he will be in there shortly
Pete Rose. The most controversial hall of fame case.
His numbers remind me of Mattingly. It might take a little while.
Mauer's case is pretty interesting i always thought ppl viewed him as a slam dunk HOFer but do you brush aside the last 7yrs of his career? I mean there are plenty of ppl who had great peaks but injuries kept them out of the hall....sure Ernie banks wasn't a HOF 1B but lmao he hit over 500 Hrs (like top 8 when he retired)and had a 500 career slugging i didn't like that comparison from that writer😂
Great video! Being a Twins fan & having watched Mauer his whole career I was somewhat on the fence but I know how much we love him here in Minnesota. I have always thought with the MVP & 3 batting titles all while catching he should go in. The 3rd title puts him in. Go Joe!
You could do David Wright Hall of Fame Case?
Yadier Molina- intriguing HOF Case
Mark freaking Grace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do Ben Wallace he got snubbed the last time he was on the ballot for the NBA
He deserves to be put in. His prime was how long of some players whole career
I sent the HoF voters this video, you're welcome!
I'd pick Tony Oliva over Joe Mauer any day. Jim Marshall in football also.
Both have similar stats, TO had more power, shame he got hurt. I too would chose TO over Mauer. So if TO is not worthy JM is not either. Seen them both play and life long fan of the Twins.
Lou Whitaker. Tram is in. He should be too.
I'm not sure he'll get in on the first ballot, but I think he should get in eventually.
Also I think it would be interesting to cover Tony Oliva and Jim Kaat in your Hall of Fame Case series.
Tony O not being in the Hall is still a shame.
He is now
Great video! I love Mauer and I think he’ll get in!
Paco thanks!
How about Torii Hunter and Mark Buerhle?
No way. As an MN guy, home town bias is basically all this dude ever was. Imo (and I'm a big MN sports fan) probly the most overrated baseball player ever. Shouldve never been in MVP contention, and hardly even all-star consideration.
You are so dumb bro
@@sammyollie5133 At least I have the same number of WS appearances as Mauer ✌
Ben Xenos baseball is way more of a team sport than others like basketball where someone can carry
@@sammyollie5133 Yeah and Mauer was on the most talented Twins teams in history and failed to step up or elevate the team in big moments. Never even got all that close to success... Guys like Posey, Molina , and quite a few more were more talented, more accomplished, yet got overshadowed by an inferior player.
Ben Xenos think about how many baseball players in the hof don’t have a ring...uh doi
Johan Santana
You should do the Hall of Fame case of Tim Hudson
Foolish BB did this but Andrelton Simmons would be cool
Yes! He should make it.
Barry Bonds should be in the HoF
Mauer is like a guy from the 1920's who just happens to played the modern game. I think that throwback appeal plus his numbers deserve him to get in.
Dale Murphy and Fred McGriff
I feel like there's a lot of repetition in your script.
He did it :)
Based on Joe's prime when he played Catcher, his play merits his inclusion in the Hall Of Fame. He won three batting titles, one MVP award, and was a six-time All-Star. He was in the top-ten in MVP voting four times during the five year period from years 2006 - 2010; he won three Gold Gloves and four Silver Sluggers during this five year period. Joe was the main reason the Twins won Division championships in 2006, 2009 and 2010. After physical problems forced Joe to stop playing Catcher and become a First-Baseman, Joe gave his best effort and became a very good fielder at First-Base. His last five years playing while physically diminished should not detract from his great seasons as a Catcher. Joe Mauer belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Hmmm.... "Mauer is a serviceable fielder." Actually, he ranks 5th ALL-TIME in 1B fielding %. He is the ONLY player in the top 10 of fielding percentage at two different position.
He barely played 1st base except in 3 years of his career. One of those 100 games. He never played a full year at catcher. He played several games at DH. He did great when he played 1st base and catcher. I just think they will compare him with the greats of the game at both of those positions and the GAMES played at those positions and say he had a lot of off times/rest those years. The others played more games and less rest/time off. Just my take on this. He is one of nice guys of the game along with his friend Justin Morneau.
Ozzie Smith is 23rd all time in fielding percentage at shortstop. JJ Hardy is 6th. Do you honestly think JJ Hardy was a better defender than Ozzie Smith? Hopefully you don't, so stop using fielding percentage. It's a garbage stat.
@@SgtHolton now that you brought that up...he sure had a lot of errors during his time. And face it, when it came to batting avg, on base pct, home runs. RBIS, OPS..Slugging Pct etc...he kind of sucked...badly. He may have had 2400 hits but he played 19 years. Which means he barely had over 100 hits a year. His career OPS...- .666 yuck. So you are telling me these are great stats for a HOFer?? Please. And to add..Hardy did have less errors, better OPS but no way is he a HOFer..
@@garycrabb9805 Ozzie Smith is the greatest defensive shortstop in the history of baseball. All the defensive metrics bear that out, and anyone who watched him play defense agrees he was the greatest shortstop defender ever. That's how you put up a career WRC+ of 90 and still have 67 fWAR to JJ Hardy's 27.
@@SgtHolton must be a St. Louis fan. But he is no Jeter, Garciaparra, Visquel, Ripken, etc. Why are you comparing him to JJ Hardy? Sorry but he was a decent player but HOFer...no!! Go Cubs!
Michael Young
Todd Helton
Jim Kaat. Left hander for the Senators and The Twins
Yes, perhaps the biggest omission. Great broadcaster too
Very well done video! Tim Hudson would make an interesting case.
I vote for you to do one on Jorge Posada
John Olerud
big sexy's dad Stark Raving Sports just made a video on him if you haven’t seen it
I would appreciate if you considered a Mark Buerhle hall of fame video
Richard Villa I make baseball videos on my channel and it would mean a lot if you could support me
I think its safe to say Joe was an ELITE catcher during his prime defensively
And you didn't take into account that Ivan Rodriguez had been mentioned in connection with PEDs. I'm not to say whether he used them or not, but I'm sure it had some bearing on how many votes he got on the first ballot.
Catcher is the most important anf hardest defensive position any person who can play catcher AT ALL even if they don't there whole career should make the hof if they hit like mauer, Yoder molina will be in the hof as he should for his defense bc catcher is so important to defense and a peak mauer was better at the plate then almost any catcher outside of Johnny bench
Dawg I was in the Dimmu Stream😂
My man, you are way too underrated for how incredible your videos are! Keep up the amazing work!
Thurman Munson or Joe Mauer.....Munson isn't a hall of famer...Would you take Mauer over Munson?......
Mauer had poor production numbers and chocked in the playoffs...didn't take over a series or game....Clutch and Joe Mauer...don't add up.....
To nitpick one statement:
David Ortiz was absolutely That Guy™️ at the end
In his final season he was an all star, won the silver slugger and placed 6th in the MVP voting. He had 87 extra base hits including a league leading 48 doubles and 38 homer runs (respectively the second and fourth highest single season totals of his incredible offensive career)
He led the league with 127 RBI (his 4th best total) and posted an excellent 80 BB to 86 K mark.
His slash line of .315/.401/.620 (the latter being the leagues best slugging mark) was good for a league leading 1.021 OPS. 4th best of his career but actually his 1 time leading the league his 164 OPS+ was the third best in his career and he led the league in intentional walks.
So yes. David Ortiz was unequivocally That Guy™️ at the end
SportStorm, what's your take on Kirby Puckett? Deserving or not?
I’m a life long Twins fan . I think Joe Mauer from St.Paul great athlete. Deserves to be in Twins Hall of fame. Great career. Number retired. Awesome. But
Cooperstown is different top 1%
Yes he won 3 batting titles 2006,2008,2009 . He was not behind the plate for every game
He had big games hitting those years as a DH. Those DH at bats effect his average. Those other catchers in National league won those batting titles
catching. No DH in National league. Stop using computer stats. 300 wins 500 homeruns
3000 hits. RBI’s . He was a great hitter. During those years 2006-2013 he caught 772 games out of a possible 1296
Avg 97 games per year out of 162. 920 games in 15 years
He didn’t catch enough games
Look up the numbers on baseball reference. Subtract DH
plate appearances from his numbers . Then see if he wins batting titles. They don’t even talk about winning batting titles anymore. The talk about OPS. WAR
You should make a video of the MN Twins 2019 season
HOF catcher WHEN HE ACTUALLY PLAYED THAT POSITION. I think he will get in and it certainly won't annoy me, but he wouldn't get my vote. 921 games played at the catcher position and 915 games as a DH, or playing another position. You want to get in the HOF as a catcher? Then you've got to actually CATCH for the majority of your career.
Any sport? How about the NHL.
- Patrick Marleau
- Rob Brind A'Mour
- Roberto Luongo
- Joe Thornton
- Zach Parise
- Eric Staal
- Blake Wheeler
- David Krejci
Some of these cases are easy, some are more difficult.
Rodriguez was a known PED user, though, so I think Mauer gets in first ballot at about the same amount.
Lou Whitaker Mickey Lolich Thurman Munson Dwight Evans Billy Wagner Dave Concepcion Omar Vizquel Ron Guidry Jim Kaat Keith Hernandez Dave Parker Bill Freehan Bernie Williams Dick Allen