We are returned with a quite overdue next episode of Loregear. Mega Bolters, interestingly I think I will probably go on and do a specific ep on the stupid nonsense of Deuterium at some point. Do not overthink my rant on realism, its just sometimes fun to think about things in those terms. More SOON.
To quote our most holy Manly Man-Emperor of Mankind: "At the point in time when bullets can pass through the inter-dimensional walls, when firepower takes up the entirety and eternity of space and time all beings stuck in a never-ending life and death cycle as bullets recover and destroy their bodies in quick succession, no one able to think about anything but the sheer force of the bullets rapidly flying literally everywhere in the materium turning the warp itself into nothing but a sea of semi-automatic weaponry. Then, there will be enough Dakka. Or at least almost."
Guardsmen: reasonably depict the ammo and gear they would need to lug around. Raptor gunship: realistic amount of ammo capacity to serve a seek and destroy role. Super heavy tank: on the edge of what it would need to feed its hungry-hungry heretic shredder, but it has support. Space marines: *pouch*
Power armor has so many large wide surfaces, there's plenty of spaces to strap pouches to it (all around the waist for starters, the chest, thighs and greaves additionally). Not to mention that some books (like Brothers of the Snake) show that they have magnets embedded in the ceramite so you can "holster" weapons just by mag-locking it to armor.. this should work for pouches/boxes too. But I guess it's for "clean aesthetics" that they're always portrayed without rigging and webbing with pouches, sigh.
I always thought it would’ve made more sense for SMs to use lasweapons and plasma exclusively, and have those be overpowered, and let the IG have the bolters but nerfed. The IG would have the logistics to make projectile based weapons feasible. When in the lore a team of space marines could feasibly bring an unprepared world to its knees, it simply doesn’t make sense for their ammunition to be so limited. Or, lorewise, I suppose it would work if the SMs literally always favored melee combat and if their armor was ALWAYS strong enough to allow them to close to melee range, but that’s just not the case. Oh well. Same as luetin and probably same as you, this sort of thing triggers me lol.
The TItans could run off of Battletech logic, where you can shove ammunition on virtually any component of the mech - even the head - and it somehow has a weightless and seamless feed mechanism to its designated gun.
And one that can't suffer battle damage unless you directly strike the bullets themselves and cause them to explode. There's no way to stop a leg-mounted gauss round from reaching a arm-mounted gauss cannon without destroying the round itself, which doesn't explode. Or the entire leg.
Thats how I choose to think about it. Main ammo stores are in the body of the titan itself, and the storage on the weapon itself is perhaps something like a "buffer stock" since the weapon probably fires faster than the internal system can deliver the ammo. So you still can only fire in relatively short bursts using up your buffer stock, then you need to wait for the system to refill that stock. I suppose it also gives you a couple of quick bursts if that refilling system fails.
If ammo supply is going to be the hill to die on, in the fourth Ciaphis Cain book, there was a considerate amount of detail on how supplies are acquired, used, and located. Essentially, Commisar Cain starts gathering scattered remnants of the Guard and leaving very little to waste, even using Ork vehicles and weapons, and they would hop from emergency supply caches to all around the world of Perlia, and gathering various troops along the way. Cain lived and could’ve died over missing supply caches, and even knowing which kind of ammunition, how much of it was there, and what to leave behind and blow up to deny the Orks from having it, was pretty critical through most of the book.
It also has moments like a missile launcher team being down to 3 missiles, one krak and two frag, the time and effort needed to train up a militia with spare weapons, and a dramatic scene where a force goes back to a cache rigged with explosives' and under siege by orks to get their hands on ammo for the tank that just showed up.
@@smolwavingsnail9028 Not "easily". You'd be expending a lot more time and individual munitions. That and bolters don't penetrate multiple walls like conventional rounds can. So it'd be slowly stripping away wall after wall.
@@chosenrubric7308 they're explosive rounds each one is essentially a miniature rocket they would shred anything but the most fortified walls I've seen swedish auto cannons punch through like a metre of concrete in a short amount of time. Now imagine that scaled up and with technology far superior to our own current standards. I stand by my original comment.
@@Saurophaganax1931 nah - the Titans have the equivalent of a backpack filled with Bolt rounds, but appropriated to its size, so they can EASILY have millions of rounds. And because of that, they indeed have BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
"How is this weapon created?" Mechanicus: "We vaguely understand that." "And where does it store all the ammunition?" Mechanicus: "We even less understand that."
Cadian: "How do we keep the ammo for this thing stocked?" Commissar: "Streamlined straight from the factory." Mechanicus riding the conveyor belt: "YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!~~~~"
"Well it's simple, we built a manufactorum in the vehicle so when they start needing more rounds they build an ammo manufactorum and that makes ammo." "Why didn't you build an ammo manufactorum then?" "I'll build you a shallow grave because you're going on the suicide charge in 5 minutes. "
Mechanicus Priest: [the Mechanicus Priest is sitting on a toolbox in front of his lander, playing guitar, in front of an unseen fire. Next to him is a sentry gun, and a kill counter at 209] Hey look, buddy, I'm an Mechanicus Priest. That means I solve problems. [a gunshot ricochet off his lander is ignored] Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. [two more gunshot ricochets, glanced briefly at] I solve practical problems. [he swigs a bottle of oil while his sentry shoots an ork off screen] Ork: [screams] Engineer: [puts the oil down and keeps playing guitar, the kill counter goes up to 210] For instance... [an unknown figure off to the Mechanicus Priest's left starts sneaking up in the distance] How am I going to stop some big mean mother hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? [the sentry gun spots and shoots this person too, bring the counter to 211] The answer... [a second, sentry gun kills an offscreen Tau and someone else] Tau: [screams] Mechanicus Priest: [the counter goes up to 213] Use a gun. And if that don't work, [another sentry fires rockets] use more gun. [he stops playing guitar again. The rockets hit their mark and the Mechanicus Priest grins] Tau: MY ARM! [the counter goes to 214 and an arm lands in front of the Mechanicus Priest] Mechanicus Priest: [He resumes playing] Like this heavy caliber, tripod-mounted, little ol' number designed by me, [he kicks the hand into the air and the small sentry shoots it] built by me, [the same sentry shoots a choas marine off screen, counter to 215] and you'd best hope... not pointed at you.
I have always wondered where space marines carried extra mags. Maybe it's like orcgineering, faith in the Emperor keeps bolts in the magazines or whatever.
spacemarine kits also the HH and the new primaris kits always come with extra ammo pouches,handgrenades,meltabombs etc etc but i rarely see them used much on the models people make, but also in magazines like white dwarf you rarely get to see a full loadout somehow people accept it when its deathwatch.. my chapter has pouches,grenades and other gear , i use it on waists,chests, backpacks,upper legs, but also on the shoulderpauldrons i cut off the plasma canisters from plasmaguns i won,t be using, i also do that with the promethium canisters from flamers i won,t use. same as with spare boltguns i cut off the magazines. its good to have a have flamer marine with some extra canisters on his belt together with some nice grenades pete the wargamer also takes issue with it ;-) th-cam.com/video/uRLlxhvK4ic/w-d-xo.html also his raptors killteam is amazing and full of extra gear as it should be. it takes some dry fitting to know if it will be looking good but once you get the hang of it it looks much more realistic.
Standard load of ammo for an American soldier today is 210 rounds (six mags and one in the weapon). And that’s not a lot for a firefight. And those rounds are tiny compared to .75 caliber bolter rounds
Gaunt's Ghosts series highlights the logistics of the Guard. Battles are short, wars take a long time. Resupply happens between battles. Ammo is either fed from captured manufactorum on planet or drops from orbit. Also the support crews are and ammo supplies follow these armies around. Fielding titans and tanks require armies of crewmen to keep them going and even getting them into position. We never see it in game because it's Warhammer 40k, not Warhammer 40k; Rear with the Gear... although that does sound like a pod cast
Been really interested in this sort of idea, focus on rear guard tactics and mid battles logistics. Actual contact takes the back burner, being used for building tension or gushing about operation and maintenance.
Even the best 40k Novels tend to play fast and loose with the idea of supply lines and ammo capacity. Some times in moments of stress a character will complain about low ammo or lack of grenades but it rarely does more than force them to try and get more. Another good series is the Ciphas Cain novels, I think it's the third one? Where he gets crash landed on an orc infested world and has to rally the locals into a militia. They spend a lot of time worrying about supplies, raiding supply depots and working with ad hoc weapons or supplies.
I've read quite a few 40k books, and there are only two times I can recall a character dealing with logistical information: The first the first Heresy book on the Dark Angels. In act 3, whilst acting as Regent of Caliban, Luther writes a memo to the Lion mentioning the equipment he is sending out, including several million rounds of Bolter ammunition. Its interesting, because given the size of legion, how long would that last them in active campaigning? The second is from the Gaunt's Ghosts book The Guns of Tanith, where the 1st and Only get seriously hamstrung in a battle when the Munitorium stocks the wrong size Lasgun power packs - the majority of the task force use Size 5 packs, but the Tanith use Size 3, and the Munitorium only ordered Size 5. As a result, with the exception of officer laspistols ammo, they go into battle with only 3 powerpacks each. Guant even muses about putting on a marionette show after battle, using the Sword of Sondar as the prop, and the Munitorium clerk as the screaming puppet.
Helsreach does but not the procurement. We just know that Grimaldus has to sit through briefings and read reports for ten days about a myriad of things related to the defense. From what weapons/positions the guard are using, supplies they are using, city planning, and food/water stores. They don't go into a lot of detail but that's because Grimaldus hates that part.
GW is hilariously bad at actually putting numbers to their equipment. You can even look at WWI-era weapons procurement for a smaller country like Portugal or Spain. They would order like 250,000 rifles and something like 7 or 8 million rounds of ammunition from Mauser to kit out their army for bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. I would say that the armory of a small Crusade fleet that is heading off into deep space and is needing to be self sufficient for quite some time would have millions of bolt rounds on hand for a couple of companies worth of Space Marines all using full-auto capable small arms. Even if you account for Space Marines having significantly superior marksmanship than your average unaugmented human soldier, they are usually outnumbered in the extreme and will still chew through lots of ammo regardless.
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In the HH book Thousand Sons it is stated that the legion needed 6 month to restock their ammo, food, etc.
The magazines are actually filled to the brim with Bananas to lure Jakaero into the weapon system; once inside the Jakaero steadily fills the barrels with Banana peels modified into being giant metal rounds with the radioactive potassium whilst tech priest use Ork- *inquisitorial gunshot and replacement sits down* while blessed machine spirit teleport gun fires more bananas directly into the magazine. hence titans needing an extensive ground crew and their heavy landers stacked with fruit crates.
The thing you might be able to argue is that the titan megabolter has internal ammo storage, since bolters are notorious for needing barely any barrel, you could assume that most of the space in the weapon is for ammunition storage, where the magazine is additional ammunition.
if you look at the feedingsystem of the a10, you don't need the storage to be anywhere near the actual gun. also, you can "store" additional rounds in the actual feedbelt, so placing the mainstorage in/near the torso and then slinking the feedbelt through the arm could actually be advantagious for rounds carried
@@FulloutPostal I know nothing about the a10, so I can't speak to that point in any capacity. However the remainder of your comment falls completely in line with my understanding or at least conceptualization of how the storage and feeds on a warhound are laid out. In my mind, the vast majority of the storage is within the carapace of the main body assembly (although one could make the argument that that is not nearly as much space as would be necessary considering the size of the warhound compared to larger classes) and then fed on what is probably a needlessly complicated feed system to the main housing of the gun mount. Likewise, I never took what Luetin the suspects to be a box magazine as such; for whatever reason, I had always presumed that that casing contained an internal cooling loop to prevent the Vulcans from overheating. That probably wouldn't be terribly practical either, but I still think it's more likely than for it to be intended as a box magazine.
@@ulfgard4734 basically, the a-10 feedsystem is a huge drum, just about fitting in the body of the a10 behind the pilot, using railings to move the rounds to the gun without a belt (as a sidenote, the spent casings are actually fed back into the drum) so while there may come up some issues when extending the railings too far, as long as you keep to the specs (and implement something to handle rotating parts of the arm), you can put the magazine(s) anywhere you want and can...
Just a little fact for the those who might not know. In the clip at 8:25 of the GAU-8 firing the first RATATATAT you hear is the shells exploding on the ground and the second BRRRRRR you hear is the actual gun firing.
In the book betrayer Kharn talks about some of the "not so glorious" parts of war. He mentions the dust and noise and pure chaos we aren't told about. Infact several times hes forced to use enemy weapons because his have broken or been exhausted.
For myself i like to explain those "box mags" on the Titans like this: Those are not box magazines. It's a modular loading mechanism for the guns, which is so maintenance intensive, that the entire mechanism can be removed for easy acces/replacement. The main ammo storage is in the torso, with the rounds being fed through the arms. At least that is my personal head-canon :)
An irl minigun gau-17 has a feeder/delinker that strips and loads rounds in time with the spinning barrels of the gun and is detachable and removable for maintenance. I find this to be an excellent understanding of the boxy things underneath the firearms.
Nah, you see every ammo pack has a small StarTrek Replicator inside, which just keeps creating ammo until its out of energy, because of the Dark Age of Technology, and something to do with Stacked Atomic Chains, or whatever!
That would be great, however that brings up that even Star Trek never implemented thier own technology in a realistic manner, never using Replicators, Transporters, Holograms, ForceFields, Tractor Beams, and dozens of other things Logicly or to the extent any human giving it 5 minutes thought would. Such is the limitation of a TV budget on a Sci-Fi story. Logistics and Logical implementation of Technology/Magic are often downfalls of almost every Sci-Fi/Fantasy universe ever put to paper. :/
There was this one time I read about what could have only been a fanfic, featuring some sort of weird mechanism where some Hereteks incorporated teleportation technology into the magazines of some Chaos Space Marine bolters. The idea was that it would hold a 10th of the original amount of ammunition, yet the extra space was used to incorporate a teleportation system that continuously brought more rounds in to fill the space as the Traitor Astartes kept firing. The "logic" behind it being that since it wasn't anything more than just some ammo floating in the Immaterium, there would be little interest for any passing Daemons to check and possess one of these rounds. Where were the rounds coming from? Directly from their armory. How are they getting sucked into the Warp by this teleportation tech? Gravity reversal tech to pull them into the portal. This of course goes wrong and after the first few shots are taken, the weapon is discovered to no longer fire actual bolt rounds, but instead daemon teeth. The idea sounds somewhat interesting, using teleportation tech to circumvent ammo storage problems.
Cool idea but even the teleporter beacon is larger than the magazine, not to mention how forgotten tech teleporters are and how much upsies come with it, plus energy need to even run one requires starship engine. Cool idea but ultimately too risky for the rewards. If there was not existing lore how those bolts are built, i would have suggested that each shell has double or tripple charge. Recoil system is jammed for first two electrically fired shots and only on third jam is electronically removed and shell is ejected. Since there is no propellant required to move the action on first two less propellat is needed so more compact it is and more ammo you have for the volume while still having it in reasonable size packet. For the rest of the ammo marine armor really needs backpack style of setup where rail system moves new magazine for marine to jam it in place. For power sword and bolt pistol users this location should be on the front so loading can be done with one hand. Pretty much why i have viewed double wielding big issue since reloading is pain if you dont have third arm
@@Hellsong89 Space Marines could just wear a combat vest with various gear pouches, or they could have spaces built within their armor to hold additional magazines. I've seen drawings and models that usually show either no webbing or other storage so I always wondered how they carried additional magazines..
This makes me think about Battletech where somehow you can fit 140 missiles for a long range launcher system in a single ton of ammo located at the diagonally opposed part of the mech, with missiles somehow being passed through the entire internal structure into the weapon.
Supposedly the shells are "bigger than human skulls", which would indicate a caliber in excess of around 10 inches / 250mm Naval artillery as a gatling gun
Headcannon: the box mag on a warhound is actually just a teleport beacon and rounds are teleported in from orbit as it fires. Possibly the same for the tanks and gunships. Astartes are a different issue and it's a shame we don't get more lore on the logistics side of the campaigns
This is a first obvious explanation, but isn't teleport tech exceedingly rare and expensive? Is it plausible it is deployed on legions of weapons? Eh... I'm torn on the idea. And AFAIK there is no lore supporting it, but I'll admit to it being kinda headcannon to me too. Lacking anything better.
@@GomiBushi given the scale of conflicts units like Titans or superheavy tanks are deployed to, you will likely have vessels capable of teleportation in orbit as part of the support fleet which is where my reasoning comes from. If there is one thing WH40k does poorly it's properly give you the scale of things. Also populations on planets, a place like Terra should be home to multiple Trillions if not Quadrillions of people given some of the details we have on the average space a person gets. whereas the best numbers I can find are a range of 200 billion to Quadrillions.
@@GomiBushi bro look up the squared cubed law. The titans are full of ancient, unknowable technology just tp keep them upright. I'm sure putting a teleporter in the arm of a machine which uses gravitational engines to stand up and protects itself with starship shields will be able to equip one.
"A wise man once asked, "Is it better to be feared or respected?" I say, is it too much to ask for both? With that in mind I humbly present you the crown jewel of Stark Industries' Freedom Line. It's the first missile system to incorporate latest proprietary Repulsor Technology. They say that the best weapon is the one that you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree! I prefer... the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it... and it's worked out pretty well so far." - Tony Stark
This type of weapon is what makes me love the idea of knight and titan pilots becoming addicted to their roles. I imagine if I was able to waltz around a battlefield unleashing firepower of such magnitude, I wouldn't want to stop either...
‘Titanicus’ has some details on Titan operations, including how they get resupplied with specialised vey large vehicles there to provide resupplyIn the field. On the Vulcan mega Bolter on the Warhound, there’s quite a big space behind the mega bolter (look how far forward the ejection port is) that could be filled with extra ammo.
Before i ever got into 40k i was digging battletech, and i had an idea of doing a scratchbuild of a mech in a "realistic" style. Real modular armor, maybe some reactive, ammo hoppers/feeds, ejection ports for casings, functional shielded heat sinks, and pretty much whatever else i could come up w. Imagine what a functional or at least somewhat functional titan would have going on....though i guess you could hide a lot of that in the damn cathedral lol.
Broke: Titans have cathedrals because Mechanicus is Religious Woke: Titans have cathedrals because they looked cooler to DAoT Humanity than just having giant radiators
Also keep in mind that most Warhounds carry a energy weapon as it's other army mount, and that Hounds are Hunters, so often their actual engagement time would be short but Brutal, and that Legio Command would be cycling them through for resupply. And in saying that the Titan Inferno Gun wouldn't be firing for long either.
"What good is it, Eldar, that you can plan and scheme and trick your enemies, when we can simply lay waste to all that we see? You're not half as clever as you think, alien." ~Some Commissar, with his boot on the soon to be snapped neck of a knife-ear.
"foolish monkeigh we have already perfected that, we just have the maturity to show restraint"- said eldar before said commisar gets a d-cannon to the face. dont forget how insane eldar weaponry is. black hole guns, the insanity that is the vibro and d-canon, fuckin pulsars that can easily 1-tap titans.
@@bluestormpony No one's forgetting a handful of powerful weapons, that's not the point: It's the mass delivery of hordes of troops+equipment and the will to use it that weapons like the megabolter exemplify. Eldar aren't exactly known for brute force tactics and they constantly underestimate the lengths humans are willing to go to. Despite Eldar looking down on them, they secretly do see themselves in humans and hope for the better. Eldar won't field an army and powerful weaponry unless they're positively sure that they'll win. They overly rely on tactics to utilize their strengths and minimize their losses. They have everything to lose and very little to gain. Their hesitancy is their downfall; It's THE ongoing theme with them. Eldar are written like Primarchs: Very stupidly. For all the intellect and wisdom they're supposed to possess, the author rarely reaches the same conclusion that a being like that would, so it's hard to write a satisfying story, especially when it's the dilemmas and grimdark (which is more often grimderp) that carries things forwards. In conclusion, they field five or ten guys with unbelievably powerful weapons, but against the numbers the guard alone can field in manpower and weapons (which aren't on the weak side either, in case you've forgotten) they are guaranteed to die and lose. Which is a cost they are unwilling to pay.
They can theoretically drop easy access ammo packs across the battlefield so the Titans and Dreadnoughts can just pick it and restock in matter of seconds. Just like high velocity drop pods.
you always seem to release a video when I am already in the best mood. it's like I'm having a great night and then bam luetin turns it into an even better one somehow.
Gaunts Ghosts often had logistical topics at least in parts (mostly how the ghosts got screwed over again i think) one thing was how their enemy used gigantic stockpiles to keep a constant attilery barage going. As for Warhounds i would guess the main Ammo supply is not in its weapon but in its body and the boxes are emergency stocks for when internal storage is empty
While true the effect tends to be highly exaggerated, some people even believe that the recoil can make the plane stall which is bullshit. Basically it's measurable but not much more, and it wouldn't be even measurable if the A-10 actually dived steeply while attacking.
First time I saw an A-10 fire it was at Holbeach ranges and it certainly slows them but every jet gets slowed by recoil. They’d shoot up ship targets just off shore. Over the decades I heard plenty jets fire cannons in training or on ops and none were as loud as the A-10.
@@StormBringaretheoretically the gas produced from firing could stall the engines how long the gun would have to be shot for that to happen is another matter considering they pretty much fixed that problem during testing.There is also the fact its recoil is slightly more then one of the engines so if one stalled it would start slowing the plane down a whole lot more than the few mph it does with 2 engines
Something I do both in scifi and fantasy games is bringing what's essentially functionless scatter terrain that's straight up just ammo boxes with me, usually accompanied by a bloke who carries them. That's mostly because I with scifi games I can't really believe that any of my guys have enough ammo with them to last,unless the models have some sort of backpacks or they're using low fire rate weapons like snipers. In one of my fantasy armies I've got archers with these Dark souls style giant bows that shoot fucking spear sized arrows so I resin printed out wooden crates and filled those with said giant arrows because there was no way I could just slap a quiver on those guys and call it a day. The models are from Valiant and the vile for anyone interested.
13:56 Small correction, the Stormlord's Vulcan Mega-Bolter can carry up to 10,000 rounds. The 4,000 round estimate was for the surrounding Heavy Bolter sponson weapons.
Fun fact, depleted uranium rounds are great not just for their high density, but also for being "self-sharpening", meaning when theybimpact armor, the round doesn't blunt, it burns away layer by layer, with yet another pointed layer below the last until it's pierced through.
To mix in two quotes from another fictive universe about human firearms: "The Asgard would never invent a weapon that propels small weights of iron and carbon alloys by igniting a powder of potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur." "We're all about the pew-pew, you humans are all about the boom-boom" (Thor, SG1)
Only one problem the Thor comment isn't entirely accurate, unless they where shooting weapons from the 1800's or earlier. The mix describes classical black powder, this powder was used in muskets up to very early cartridge firing firearms such as the stereotypical cowboy six shooter. Since the movie took place during the present day, firearms utilize smokeless powder and the components making up the powder are completely different. Usually using a nitrocellulose base
GW: *assembles confusing and counter-intuitive, badly thought out lore no one could hope to understand* Luetin: Ah, it's on purpose to increase immersion
@@Jarms48 I'd agree with that, even with potential future materials, space to store ammunition is the real limiting factor on its effectiveness, even with 3-5 second bursts, its probably why energy weapons feature so much in a future war as ammunition packs/capacitor/chemical/quantum cells could in theory have near limitless energy storage depending on what physics 40k uses today
@@CaptainEshara the mechanicus for sure has 3D printers capable of keeping up with ammo needs - its the 41st millennia, I'm sure they figured that part out if they've figured out how to ignore gravity's effect on the squared cubed law with future tech.
@@TheBananamonger yeah i can just imagine a tech priest sitting in the back of the ammo hopper printing bullets, cursing his fep sheet broke and praying to the Omnissiah for a better STC scraper
I always love the technical drawings of vehicles with cutaways showing internal workings and design. I'm with you Luetin, make magazines bigger! Once seen, it can't be unseen.
Naw, just load them into missile tubes like the Angry Marines do and go flying into the enemy with middle fingers raised high and beat a Heretic to death with a steel chair.
I honestly think that taking out the tape measure to measure anything is a million step process for the mechanicus, primarily involving a lot of incense. The 30 RPS figure for the Vulcan Megabolter makes me think that the Mechanicus just inspects the machine-spirit and decides "this one wants to go slow (for a rotary gun), this one wants to go fast"
The Custodes have battle resupply serfs. They toss their gunblades off to them and switch to melee weapons while the serf reloads, then tosses the gun back. You also often see loyalists / heretics looting ammo off of slain opponents.
Ironically I have read exactly one 40k story where supply lines really mattered. In the Dark Hunters story Umbra Summus (sadly no longer generally available due to copyright issues). A city under siege by Chaos space marines is only able to hold out so long as its bastion’s guns can be supplied by the city’s factory district. The threat of this supply line being severed before the book’s eponymous space marines can arrive being the main tension for the various human characters in the first half of the book.
When I see these, I remember the battle of the dock in Matrix Revolution. I love to imagine small crews of gards or enginseer rushing to reload heavy tank or even titans, trying desperately to maintain the stock of ammo, and hence it's rate of fire. They would be vulnerable and important target to the ennemy, but damn does it make for a good scene! Excellent video, as usual.
If supply interdiction really does interest you, perhaps you could do a video on the Taros Campaign? The T'au commander there specifically targeted Imperial supply lines because he could not match the Guard in open combat.
Ammo is a funny thing in 40k, even in the novels, movies and video games. Basically it's only an issue when it needs to be fore story reasons. Though it is often brought up a benefit of lasguns over bolters. That getting ammo for them can be hard for non Space Marines. And anything like a deep strike mission cut off from easy resupply makes them a very poor choice of weapon.
I'm a veteran and aircraft mechanic, and have experienced the effects of the A-10 firsthand. Also a big 40k fan, I can't imagine what a mega bolter would sound like. Fun fact, an A-10 has to be at full throttle when it fires because the recoil of the cannon slows the aircraft to stall speeds if it's not at full speed.
It was interesting when I was reading about the early iterations of the A-10 that some of the gas and so on sprayed out or I think chemicals from the gun caused issues on the pilots screen, and even fed back into the engines and caused test versions to crash? so its why they had to position that scoop below to suck some of the expelled gas from the gun and prevent it from spraying back into the engines , or something along these lines
I love this episode. I'm working on a Stormlord right now, and was just wondering how effective this mega bolter would really be. It's a troop transport that also has to house thousands of bullets. It didn't make sense to me, but there we go again with "This is 40k. It's not supposed to make sense!" notion. I've shot a GAU-19 before that shoots 7.62 rounds, and i was through a thousand rounds in about 5 seconds, so a Mega Bolter that shoots WAY bigger rounds just does not fit my personal perspective haha. But I digress! Luetin! You're the man. I look forward to all your episodes, and love listening to them when I'm painting or on a long drive. You really help me out when I need some good lore, and I'm constantly learning. Can confirm that you got me back into the hobby, and you are more than right that WH/WH40k does help people with metal health issues. My PTSD has been so much more in control ever since i got back into it, and you and your videos also help me keep it all in check. Thank you! Alex P.S. Can we get an episode about the Imperial Navy at some point? Love me some Valkyries
Another, uh, fun fact about depleted uranium rounds. The material properties mean that while other metals dull as they penetrate, DU self sharpens as it slices through armor, and burns as it does so.
Opening size is not always an indicator of the caliber due to the use of barrel shrouds. Reference the M1919A4 which looks like it has a .50 size hole at the end of the barrel, but is actually .30 cal.
In Betrayer, there's a description of used mega bolter casings being the length of a mans arm. Plus, Black Ops 3 has an LMG that prints it's own ammo. Don't know how likely that'd be, and you'd have thought it'd be mentioned at some point.
Years ago I made a comic character; "Kaptain Kalashnikov" who wielded a hammer and sickle and a belt fed AK47 with unlimited ammo. (His cape was also called the "Iron Curtain".) I made it so his ammo bag had a teleporter device leading to a whole ammunition store. I think this sort of tech might be worth having on a Titans box mag. I think it's a fair rationalisation.
You make a really interesting point about the absence of ordnance logistics (coincidentally my dad's speciality when he was in the army) in a lot of 40k fiction. I think that one of the things I love about 'military sci-fi' is the attention to the tactics, strategies, and considered application of assets in battlefield situations; and like yourself, I feel that the logistics/supply issues are just as relevant. I guess this is why I can call to mind a few good examples of when such details HAVE been included, because they are the exceptions rather than the rule, and also they occur in Horus Heresy novels, so 30K not 40K. Those examples are from Betrayer, which goes into at least some detail about ammunition and supply drops during an invasion, and also the recurring character of General Ilya Ravallion, who worked to introduce a working logistical framework into the White Scars during the Heresy, precisely because they gave too little attention to the need for functional supply lines. There are probably some other examples too, but I have to say that I agree completely with the re-supply issues facing Terminator forces on space hulks - which is probably why they simply made the decision to have unlimited reloads in the Deathwing game!
StarCraft addressed a similar issue in an interesting way. The units who would theoretically burn through ammunition have the ability to "synthesize" rounds. I forget the specific units, but it was the ones who utilized grenades. Seemed like a smart way to sidestep this exact issue
Though I've never been a particularly big fan of your videos on 40k weaponry, I do love how you manage to turn your discussions towards adjacent subjects and in this case specifically the attention to the operational and logistical requirements of these weapons. Even when you're covering extreme topics like exterminatus or titans, you never seem to limit yourself to the absurdity of the violence and always pivot into how these concepts could fit within the cultural and pragmatic values of the Empire, or other factions under discussion. Good stuff really, serious quality lore analysis.
Ohman... How I love that constant juggling between rational, skeptical "neah... not possible, silly" and "Praise Omnissiah!!!" :D Perfect ending for really crap week at this end. Cheers! I.
repeated phrase at 17:35 "when it comes to the issue of ammunition supply" happens twice, not a big deal but thought I'd point it out in case you gave a shit luetin lol
The best part about this video and this channel is when he calls stuff out that wouldn't work realistically I'd love a whole series about him trying to explain the stuff that realistically doesn't make sense
As a regular user of firearms, I'm glad you said something about capacity. I love me some 40k but it always knaws as my sanity. I mean, I can totally suspend the disbelief that red ones are faster... because they are but, come on... bolters couldn't have more than 12 rounds assuming the magazines use a spring feed follower.
Bolters fire .75 bolts (often), with a triple stack in a massive Marine sized magazine (the length of your thigh) it could hold 50 rounds easily. People both underestimate the size of Marines weapons while also overestimating the size of Bolt rounds.
@@WozWozEre I'm going out on a limb with the assumption that you have limited to no access to real life firearms... at least of a magazine or belt fed variety. Exaggerated size was accounted for. Check how many 12g rounds fit in a box mag. Better yet, what inertial forces are inherent in moving just 10 rounds of 50bmg. Bigger the rounds the bigger the spring and follower, genius. Half the mag is spring and follower.
@@Bluematchhead Given my 8 years in the infantry I've got plenty of experience with firearms. The thing is we have no idea as to the internal mechanism of an Astartes bolter magazine. We have no idea if bolts are single, double, triple or even quadruple stacked. They may be fed by something as advanced as some sort of magnetic stacking system, we have no idea. We do know that some bolter's such as chaos bolters can take belt fed ammunition, therefore indicated that a spring and follower mechanism is not even required.
All comes down to how we can imagine it. A Space Marine assault is not just the landers with marines in them but the landers with supplies behind them and servitors and serfs managing that stuff. I could imagine a thing where they drop supply drop pods farther into enemy lines too. There has to be Space Marines in chapters that specialize in the logistics because a Chapter Master and Captain can't be all things.
You really do have a way with words, I don't even play 40k but love listening to the unparalleled dystopian nightmare of a universe, I like to think the writers really are predicting the trejectory we are currently on. Grim but fascinating =)
"The Megabolter has a relatively low firing rate of 30 rounds per second". Yes! 30 self propelled grenades a second. I'd like to see any modern Vulcan Cannon do that.
Plausibility is a major game breaker for me and my friends. When we're playing very scenarios typically we like to include conditions for capturing of Bases that are more nuanced and can include limits to which type of unit and how many can capture the objective... We like to think this balances out the whole supply thing as you may have to in one of our games, grab a token from one side of the board and carry it across the board, in order to utilize another objective on the other side.
What could be interesting is to extend plausibility to ammo counts. Give for example the huge gatling weapons discussed in this video a very limited number of shots? So that a knight for example can only shoot a few "bursts" before its out of ammo. Possibly even extend this to units so that you cant just shoot an infinite number of turns. I mean theres only so much bolter ammo a marine can carry around you know. And then maybe units whose guns use smaller ammo, such as guardsmen for example, would logically get more shots as they can carry more of the stuff. This cpuld compensate naturally for weaker guns.
Its a god machine. It uses gravitational field manipulation to ignore the squared cubed law. How hard is it to rationalize on board ammunition 3D printing advanced enough to turn raw energy into matter when we're talking about 100+ foot tall giant robots with miniguns the size of a house each?
@@TheBananamonger Because many lore sources indicate that they do indeed run on physical ammo suplies and theres no mention of borderline magical 3D printing hocus pocus? This seems like a lazy headcanon to justify the big boom booms in a universe which infamously doesn't do a good job of taking logistics or functionality into account and sacs them for le epic war.
@@hyde4004 thats because thats exactly what this is. Its a tabletop game for big boom booms and exploring daddy issues in the grimdark future. I genuinely, truly do not care where the big building sized minigun gets its bullets when its attached to a 100 foot tall machine which shouldn't even be able to physically exist in most gravity wells.
@@TheBananamonger Well then it's simply a difference of what you look for from 40k. You like the ott dakka fantasy and thats all well and good. I, like Luetin, find it to be irritating when things that supposedly act on real world-like rules don't make sense at all. The difference is that something like the gravity well manipulation stuff is something less quantifiable and therefore I can just chock it up to be science bs. But when the gun supposedly just works off of a physical onboard storage, yet there's no way to carry any meaningful amount of ammo that scale, I can't just think "oh well, its 40k science so whatever". Its literally telling me that a camel just fits trough the eye of a needle "cause science", so the logic of the world falls apart. And really lore discussion imo becomes pretty meningless if everything can be explained away by some magic dark age tech or other nonsense. If nothing has to follow any logic then what's the point of even debating anything?
13:13 a gatling is NOT for supressive fire, you want low RoF for that... gatlings are good at delivering very precise strikes with lots of rounds in a short period of time. supressing fire doesn't need to be precise, just enough to keep the enemy in cover
@@JunkCCCP you obviously can suppress with a high RoF, but it costs too much ammo to be efficient. why send 200 rounds downrange when 20 would do the job? when you pull the trigger on a high RoF weapon, you want to destroy whatever you are aiming at (see gau-8 vs armoured vehicles or MG42 vs clusters of infantry), but if you want to keep the enemy from poking their heads out, a few rounds here and there are usually enough
I always expected the Warhounds and most titans to have internal teleportation beacons always bringing in the necessary ammunition for very long engagements. They are not that big and so would run dry rather rapidly but with such system it would explain how they can remain in combat for so long.
Bolters (in the few cutaways we get) are incredibly short chambered and barreled weapons. This leads to different problems with round stability and guidance but may lessen the Warhound problem: perhaps the magazines actually occupy much of the inside of the weapon arm behind the box you drew under the gun arm. By the way: I am right there with you on suspension of disbelief being easier when a setting takes steps to be plausible in areas that closely parallel Real World (tm.) experience.
I have always thought it was fire lasers in the world of 40K, so I imagined every round to be some kind of battery and reusable multiple times hence no more storage problems
As someone who served in the army, you can never carry enough ammo. I always thought about the ammo requirements of weapons in 40k. The bolt guns have fat mags that fire fat ammo, but the marines don't carry any sort of LBV or anything similar, to carry a sustainable amount of ammo. It's times like that when you need to remember this is just a fantasy universe.
Imagine that GW had turned the titan megaholter upsidedown, so that the magazine was on the top of the gun, and the Imperium would have cargo aircrafts landing on the Titans arm to reload the mega bolter.
in one of the recentish books involving primiaris theres mention of ammo drones/pods that drop mid combat, they actually sounded like they are drop pods that land throughout enemy lines that also act as locator beacons and objectives for each squad to head to and hold
On the note of ammunition, I set up my homebrew chaper (the Forlorn Hope) as always carrying much extra gear. I even pair every Devastator I build with a dedicated ammo carrier bearing the same kind of ammo backpack but just a regular bolter, a bit like real militaries do though IRL it's rarely less than two extra people on each weapon.
We are returned with a quite overdue next episode of Loregear. Mega Bolters, interestingly I think I will probably go on and do a specific ep on the stupid nonsense of Deuterium at some point. Do not overthink my rant on realism, its just sometimes fun to think about things in those terms. More SOON.
Also noice
Noice
Thank you for this Luetin
Wish I could heart this XD
keep up the good work lad
In the grim darkness of the far future, one does not simply ever have enough dakka.
There is never an inappropriate time for dakka.
Bert Gummer approves this message👍
To quote our most holy Manly Man-Emperor of Mankind:
"At the point in time when bullets can pass through the inter-dimensional walls, when firepower takes up the entirety and eternity of space and time all beings stuck in a never-ending life and death cycle as bullets recover and destroy their bodies in quick succession, no one able to think about anything but the sheer force of the bullets rapidly flying literally everywhere in the materium turning the warp itself into nothing but a sea of semi-automatic weaponry. Then, there will be enough Dakka. Or at least almost."
@@TheBassManBoy "a sea of semi automatic weaponry"
Full auto is the correct text, and the inquisition will be with you shortly.
"more dakka is not a goal youz strive faw, rather itz a state of bein."- Warboss Ardbrain, M41
Guardsmen: reasonably depict the ammo and gear they would need to lug around.
Raptor gunship: realistic amount of ammo capacity to serve a seek and destroy role.
Super heavy tank: on the edge of what it would need to feed its hungry-hungry heretic shredder, but it has support.
Space marines: *pouch*
"Hungry Hungry Heretic Shredder" is my new favorite way of describing 40k weapons.
But it's a big pouch....lol
Power armor has so many large wide surfaces, there's plenty of spaces to strap pouches to it (all around the waist for starters, the chest, thighs and greaves additionally).
Not to mention that some books (like Brothers of the Snake) show that they have magnets embedded in the ceramite so you can "holster" weapons just by mag-locking it to armor.. this should work for pouches/boxes too.
But I guess it's for "clean aesthetics" that they're always portrayed without rigging and webbing with pouches, sigh.
But it's a magi ..a technological pouch that conceals a tiny portal into an artificial dimension where everything put into the pouch gets stored.
I always thought it would’ve made more sense for SMs to use lasweapons and plasma exclusively, and have those be overpowered, and let the IG have the bolters but nerfed. The IG would have the logistics to make projectile based weapons feasible.
When in the lore a team of space marines could feasibly bring an unprepared world to its knees, it simply doesn’t make sense for their ammunition to be so limited.
Or, lorewise, I suppose it would work if the SMs literally always favored melee combat and if their armor was ALWAYS strong enough to allow them to close to melee range, but that’s just not the case. Oh well. Same as luetin and probably same as you, this sort of thing triggers me lol.
The TItans could run off of Battletech logic, where you can shove ammunition on virtually any component of the mech - even the head - and it somehow has a weightless and seamless feed mechanism to its designated gun.
Oh, I like this. I am using this as my explanation until I hear a better one to avoid headaches thanks.
And one that can't suffer battle damage unless you directly strike the bullets themselves and cause them to explode. There's no way to stop a leg-mounted gauss round from reaching a arm-mounted gauss cannon without destroying the round itself, which doesn't explode. Or the entire leg.
It's not a weightless feed system, it's carried by some poor Adeptus servitor.
Thats how I choose to think about it. Main ammo stores are in the body of the titan itself, and the storage on the weapon itself is perhaps something like a "buffer stock" since the weapon probably fires faster than the internal system can deliver the ammo.
So you still can only fire in relatively short bursts using up your buffer stock, then you need to wait for the system to refill that stock. I suppose it also gives you a couple of quick bursts if that refilling system fails.
@@reginaldsafety6090 😭🤣😂
If ammo supply is going to be the hill to die on, in the fourth Ciaphis Cain book, there was a considerate amount of detail on how supplies are acquired, used, and located. Essentially, Commisar Cain starts gathering scattered remnants of the Guard and leaving very little to waste, even using Ork vehicles and weapons, and they would hop from emergency supply caches to all around the world of Perlia, and gathering various troops along the way. Cain lived and could’ve died over missing supply caches, and even knowing which kind of ammunition, how much of it was there, and what to leave behind and blow up to deny the Orks from having it, was pretty critical through most of the book.
Which book was that? I really can’t remember that Part. Wasn’t the third book about a slaneesh cult
@@xenon3990 Death or glory, if I recall correctly.
4th book!
It also has moments like a missile launcher team being down to 3 missiles, one krak and two frag, the time and effort needed to train up a militia with spare weapons, and a dramatic scene where a force goes back to a cache rigged with explosives' and under siege by orks to get their hands on ammo for the tank that just showed up.
The space marines and titants are the ones not thought about. The imperial gaurd are pretty well thought through.
As the ancestors, in their wisdom, once said as Mankind first left Terra:
"Go big, or go home"
I think you mean "More Daka, or more Daka" - Just Orky Fings
So Ogryn's took that too seriously?
@@WasLostButNowAmFound x du voll PM
Back when the ancestral Terrans had an ork-ish saying; "heheh big gun go BRRRRRT"
"wear slippers and have a big dong" - Theodosius Roosewelt, according to Adeptus Custodes historical research
I always just assumed "movie rules" for 40k when it comes to ammo. Most definitely when it comes to orks especially!
That's usually why "energy weapons" are so popular in sci fi, the ammunition is something up to to author and how the fictional power source works.
Ork weapons don't actually have any ammo, they shoot because the orks think they will.
@@DetectiveLance or the ammo is just teeth, if you look closely.
@@GomiBushi Just as likely, and just as impossible to work.
Orks just believe they have more ammo.
Bolter: when you wanna split a person in half
Mega bolter: when you wanna split a building in half
I mean a heavy belter could easily cut a building In half. Mega bolter is whent you want to split a greater deamon in half
Cyclonic torpedo: For when you want to split a planet in half.
Mega Bolter: For when your CO very much wants a tank column to "go away"
@@smolwavingsnail9028 Not "easily". You'd be expending a lot more time and individual munitions. That and bolters don't penetrate multiple walls like conventional rounds can. So it'd be slowly stripping away wall after wall.
@@chosenrubric7308 they're explosive rounds each one is essentially a miniature rocket they would shred anything but the most fortified walls I've seen swedish auto cannons punch through like a metre of concrete in a short amount of time. Now imagine that scaled up and with technology far superior to our own current standards. I stand by my original comment.
Xenos: "YoU cAnNoT gO aRoUnD cOnQuErInG tHe GaLaXy wItH mInI-gUnS!"
Imperium of Man: "hehe, Mega-Bolter goes BRRRRRRR!"
No xenos can comprehend the true power of ....BRRRRRRRR!
At this point they are macro guns
Ork: "Dis git spittin"
BRR!- for two seconds before your titans expended all its ammo.
@@Saurophaganax1931 nah - the Titans have the equivalent of a backpack filled with Bolt rounds, but appropriated to its size, so they can EASILY have millions of rounds.
And because of that, they indeed have BRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
The topic of ammo supply has allowed me to understand Luetin's gravitation towards Gulliman. Great video with great detail.
Beginners study tactics, experts study logistics
@@marsar1775 actual generals study both(the competent ones at least)
An Army runs on his stomach...
"How is this weapon created?"
Mechanicus: "We vaguely understand that."
"And where does it store all the ammunition?"
Mechanicus: "We even less understand that."
"Don't question the Omnissiah or you will see yourself as his servitor firing those weapons."
I think it is entirely possible there is some non-euclidean geometry going on in the ammo boxes, but the tech priests have no idea.
@@johnathanclayton2887 Non-euclidian geometry? So they put them into spheres?
@@derekh6962 Draw them on 4d hyperbolas to allow them to have more internal volume than would otherwise be from the perimeter in flat spacetime.
i dont think you understand how big a titian is.. also if you look at the bolter rounds they are short an fat,like a shotgun round..
Cadian: "How do we keep the ammo for this thing stocked?"
Commissar: "Streamlined straight from the factory."
Mechanicus riding the conveyor belt: "YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS!~~~~"
i read that as "Canadian"
@@FeedMeSalt For the emperor eh?
"Well it's simple, we built a manufactorum in the vehicle so when they start needing more rounds they build an ammo manufactorum and that makes ammo."
"Why didn't you build an ammo manufactorum then?"
"I'll build you a shallow grave because you're going on the suicide charge in 5 minutes. "
why am i reading the "yes" with jeremy clarksons voice?
@@Speedy2619 I dunno, when I wrote it I was writing it in SpeakerD's potentially Flayer virus infected voice.
Mechanicus Priest:
[the Mechanicus Priest is sitting on a toolbox in front of his lander, playing guitar, in front of an unseen fire. Next to him is a sentry gun, and a kill counter at 209] Hey look, buddy, I'm an Mechanicus Priest. That means I solve problems. [a gunshot ricochet off his lander is ignored] Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. [two more gunshot ricochets, glanced briefly at] I solve practical problems. [he swigs a bottle of oil while his sentry shoots an ork off screen]
Ork:
[screams]
Engineer:
[puts the oil down and keeps playing guitar, the kill counter goes up to 210] For instance... [an unknown figure off to the Mechanicus Priest's left starts sneaking up in the distance] How am I going to stop some big mean mother hubbard from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? [the sentry gun spots and shoots this person too, bring the counter to 211] The answer... [a second, sentry gun kills an offscreen Tau and someone else]
Tau:
[screams]
Mechanicus Priest:
[the counter goes up to 213] Use a gun. And if that don't work, [another sentry fires rockets] use more gun. [he stops playing guitar again. The rockets hit their mark and the Mechanicus Priest grins]
Tau:
MY ARM! [the counter goes to 214 and an arm lands in front of the Mechanicus Priest]
Mechanicus Priest:
[He resumes playing] Like this heavy caliber, tripod-mounted, little ol' number designed by me, [he kicks the hand into the air and the small sentry shoots it] built by me, [the same sentry shoots a choas marine off screen, counter to 215] and you'd best hope... not pointed at you.
All fun and games until some spy saps your sentry
I want someone to animate your comment bad.
@@ravenspire0240 Team Fortress 2 - Meet the Engineer.
Oi mate! You got a loicense for designing that? - The rest of mechanicus, probably
Engiseer, or going by his ancient terra spelling EngiNeer, was one of the omnisia's prophets
I have always wondered where space marines carried extra mags. Maybe it's like orcgineering, faith in the Emperor keeps bolts in the magazines or whatever.
In their packs on their backs.
spacemarine kits also the HH and the new primaris kits always come with extra ammo pouches,handgrenades,meltabombs etc etc but i rarely see them used much on the models people make, but also in magazines like white dwarf you rarely get to see a full loadout
somehow people accept it when its deathwatch..
my chapter has pouches,grenades and other gear , i use it on waists,chests, backpacks,upper legs, but also on the shoulderpauldrons
i cut off the plasma canisters from plasmaguns i won,t be using, i also do that with the promethium canisters from flamers i won,t use. same as with spare boltguns i cut off the magazines. its good to have a have flamer marine with some extra canisters on his belt together with some nice grenades
pete the wargamer also takes issue with it ;-)
th-cam.com/video/uRLlxhvK4ic/w-d-xo.html
also his raptors killteam is amazing and full of extra gear as it should be.
it takes some dry fitting to know if it will be looking good but once you get the hang of it it looks much more realistic.
Standard load of ammo for an American soldier today is 210 rounds (six mags and one in the weapon). And that’s not a lot for a firefight. And those rounds are tiny compared to .75 caliber bolter rounds
@@enginepy truth!.. and yet a spacemarine going in with only the magazine he has in his bolter looks just stupid.
@@enginepy did they lower the expected load out? I recall it being more like 10 or 11 magazines.
Gaunt's Ghosts series highlights the logistics of the Guard. Battles are short, wars take a long time. Resupply happens between battles. Ammo is either fed from captured manufactorum on planet or drops from orbit. Also the support crews are and ammo supplies follow these armies around. Fielding titans and tanks require armies of crewmen to keep them going and even getting them into position. We never see it in game because it's Warhammer 40k, not Warhammer 40k; Rear with the Gear... although that does sound like a pod cast
Been really interested in this sort of idea, focus on rear guard tactics and mid battles logistics. Actual contact takes the back burner, being used for building tension or gushing about operation and maintenance.
Even the best 40k Novels tend to play fast and loose with the idea of supply lines and ammo capacity. Some times in moments of stress a character will complain about low ammo or lack of grenades but it rarely does more than force them to try and get more.
Another good series is the Ciphas Cain novels, I think it's the third one? Where he gets crash landed on an orc infested world and has to rally the locals into a militia. They spend a lot of time worrying about supplies, raiding supply depots and working with ad hoc weapons or supplies.
Mybe just mybe. Universe always on war and humanity always go there and amonition always scater around so. They war while pick up the amonition
I've read quite a few 40k books, and there are only two times I can recall a character dealing with logistical information:
The first the first Heresy book on the Dark Angels. In act 3, whilst acting as Regent of Caliban, Luther writes a memo to the Lion mentioning the equipment he is sending out, including several million rounds of Bolter ammunition. Its interesting, because given the size of legion, how long would that last them in active campaigning?
The second is from the Gaunt's Ghosts book The Guns of Tanith, where the 1st and Only get seriously hamstrung in a battle when the Munitorium stocks the wrong size Lasgun power packs - the majority of the task force use Size 5 packs, but the Tanith use Size 3, and the Munitorium only ordered Size 5. As a result, with the exception of officer laspistols ammo, they go into battle with only 3 powerpacks each. Guant even muses about putting on a marionette show after battle, using the Sword of Sondar as the prop, and the Munitorium clerk as the screaming puppet.
Helsreach does but not the procurement. We just know that Grimaldus has to sit through briefings and read reports for ten days about a myriad of things related to the defense. From what weapons/positions the guard are using, supplies they are using, city planning, and food/water stores. They don't go into a lot of detail but that's because Grimaldus hates that part.
GW is hilariously bad at actually putting numbers to their equipment. You can even look at WWI-era weapons procurement for a smaller country like Portugal or Spain. They would order like 250,000 rifles and something like 7 or 8 million rounds of ammunition from Mauser to kit out their army for bolt action rifles with 5 round magazines. I would say that the armory of a small Crusade fleet that is heading off into deep space and is needing to be self sufficient for quite some time would have millions of bolt rounds on hand for a couple of companies worth of Space Marines all using full-auto capable small arms. Even if you account for Space Marines having significantly superior marksmanship than your average unaugmented human soldier, they are usually outnumbered in the extreme and will still chew through lots of ammo regardless.
In the HH book Thousand Sons it is stated that the legion needed 6 month to restock their ammo, food, etc.
You probably read Mechanicus, in which a Fist arrives at mars to take as much ammunition and armor before the planets fall to the rebels.
I've been reading the Last Chancers books and there are quite a few moments where Kage comments on logistics and not having enough ammo.
The magazines are actually filled to the brim with Bananas to lure Jakaero into the weapon system; once inside the Jakaero steadily fills the barrels with Banana peels modified into being giant metal rounds with the radioactive potassium whilst tech priest use Ork- *inquisitorial gunshot and replacement sits down* while blessed machine spirit teleport gun fires more bananas directly into the magazine. hence titans needing an extensive ground crew and their heavy landers stacked with fruit crates.
This is my new head canon
The thing you might be able to argue is that the titan megabolter has internal ammo storage, since bolters are notorious for needing barely any barrel, you could assume that most of the space in the weapon is for ammunition storage, where the magazine is additional ammunition.
Depends, if they do sonething like a P-90 style loading system they could use the upper arm for storage.
if you look at the feedingsystem of the a10, you don't need the storage to be anywhere near the actual gun.
also, you can "store" additional rounds in the actual feedbelt, so placing the mainstorage in/near the torso and then slinking the feedbelt through the arm could actually be advantagious for rounds carried
@@FulloutPostal I know nothing about the a10, so I can't speak to that point in any capacity. However the remainder of your comment falls completely in line with my understanding or at least conceptualization of how the storage and feeds on a warhound are laid out. In my mind, the vast majority of the storage is within the carapace of the main body assembly (although one could make the argument that that is not nearly as much space as would be necessary considering the size of the warhound compared to larger classes) and then fed on what is probably a needlessly complicated feed system to the main housing of the gun mount.
Likewise, I never took what Luetin the suspects to be a box magazine as such; for whatever reason, I had always presumed that that casing contained an internal cooling loop to prevent the Vulcans from overheating. That probably wouldn't be terribly practical either, but I still think it's more likely than for it to be intended as a box magazine.
@@ulfgard4734 basically, the a-10 feedsystem is a huge drum, just about fitting in the body of the a10 behind the pilot, using railings to move the rounds to the gun without a belt (as a sidenote, the spent casings are actually fed back into the drum)
so while there may come up some issues when extending the railings too far, as long as you keep to the specs (and implement something to handle rotating parts of the arm), you can put the magazine(s) anywhere you want and can...
@@FulloutPostal that's a really interesting system. Thanks for the easy to understand explanation.
Just a little fact for the those who might not know. In the clip at 8:25 of the GAU-8 firing the first RATATATAT you hear is the shells exploding on the ground and the second BRRRRRR you hear is the actual gun firing.
The mating call of the Warthog, because you _know_ someone is going to get fucked.
Ah yes, the Brrrrt. Love that sound! Glad I'm not on the receiving end.
Lion El'Johnson will wake up when Luetin does his Dark Angels video finally.
Make this a popular fan theory and GW will use it in the lore so they don’t have to come up with another story.
He was on a podcast they discussed the Lion awakening
Why do you think he's waited so long to make it? He knows something we don't...
In the book betrayer Kharn talks about some of the "not so glorious" parts of war. He mentions the dust and noise and pure chaos we aren't told about. Infact several times hes forced to use enemy weapons because his have broken or been exhausted.
Seeing as the World Eaters tend to chain their weapons to their arms this must be even more of a nuisance
Thank the lord for Luetin, praise the work that's put in
For myself i like to explain those "box mags" on the Titans like this:
Those are not box magazines. It's a modular loading mechanism for the guns, which is so maintenance intensive, that the entire mechanism can be removed for easy acces/replacement.
The main ammo storage is in the torso, with the rounds being fed through the arms.
At least that is my personal head-canon :)
An irl minigun gau-17 has a feeder/delinker that strips and loads rounds in time with the spinning barrels of the gun and is detachable and removable for maintenance. I find this to be an excellent understanding of the boxy things underneath the firearms.
Nah, you see every ammo pack has a small StarTrek Replicator inside, which just keeps creating ammo until its out of energy, because of the Dark Age of Technology, and something to do with Stacked Atomic Chains, or whatever!
Star trek is the dark age of technology?...id like that...the naiveté then suddenly...war.
So the energy is the ammo
That would be great, however that brings up that even Star Trek never implemented thier own technology in a realistic manner, never using Replicators, Transporters, Holograms, ForceFields, Tractor Beams, and dozens of other things Logicly or to the extent any human giving it 5 minutes thought would.
Such is the limitation of a TV budget on a Sci-Fi story.
Logistics and Logical implementation of Technology/Magic are often downfalls of almost every Sci-Fi/Fantasy universe ever put to paper. :/
@@ninurtaacha8641 yes but actually no
How about a mini teleportarium inside the magazine?
There was this one time I read about what could have only been a fanfic, featuring some sort of weird mechanism where some Hereteks incorporated teleportation technology into the magazines of some Chaos Space Marine bolters. The idea was that it would hold a 10th of the original amount of ammunition, yet the extra space was used to incorporate a teleportation system that continuously brought more rounds in to fill the space as the Traitor Astartes kept firing. The "logic" behind it being that since it wasn't anything more than just some ammo floating in the Immaterium, there would be little interest for any passing Daemons to check and possess one of these rounds. Where were the rounds coming from? Directly from their armory. How are they getting sucked into the Warp by this teleportation tech? Gravity reversal tech to pull them into the portal.
This of course goes wrong and after the first few shots are taken, the weapon is discovered to no longer fire actual bolt rounds, but instead daemon teeth.
The idea sounds somewhat interesting, using teleportation tech to circumvent ammo storage problems.
firing Deamon teeth hu... silly deamon, should of tried chewing on the bolt rounds.
Cool idea but even the teleporter beacon is larger than the magazine, not to mention how forgotten tech teleporters are and how much upsies come with it, plus energy need to even run one requires starship engine. Cool idea but ultimately too risky for the rewards. If there was not existing lore how those bolts are built, i would have suggested that each shell has double or tripple charge. Recoil system is jammed for first two electrically fired shots and only on third jam is electronically removed and shell is ejected. Since there is no propellant required to move the action on first two less propellat is needed so more compact it is and more ammo you have for the volume while still having it in reasonable size packet. For the rest of the ammo marine armor really needs backpack style of setup where rail system moves new magazine for marine to jam it in place. For power sword and bolt pistol users this location should be on the front so loading can be done with one hand. Pretty much why i have viewed double wielding big issue since reloading is pain if you dont have third arm
@@Hellsong89 Space Marines could just wear a combat vest with various gear pouches, or they could have spaces built within their armor to hold additional magazines. I've seen drawings and models that usually show either no webbing or other storage so I always wondered how they carried additional magazines..
This makes me think about Battletech where somehow you can fit 140 missiles for a long range launcher system in a single ton of ammo located at the diagonally opposed part of the mech, with missiles somehow being passed through the entire internal structure into the weapon.
Mega Bolters
basically if the auto cannon and a gatling gun were fused into one
more like rotary canon and grenade launcher. oh rocket propelled grenade launcher.
@@wepntech ah yes
Supposedly the shells are "bigger than human skulls", which would indicate a caliber in excess of around 10 inches / 250mm
Naval artillery as a gatling gun
Headcannon: the box mag on a warhound is actually just a teleport beacon and rounds are teleported in from orbit as it fires. Possibly the same for the tanks and gunships. Astartes are a different issue and it's a shame we don't get more lore on the logistics side of the campaigns
I LOVE this idea. gives more credence to the idea that these machines are complex as fuck to maintain.
This is a first obvious explanation, but isn't teleport tech exceedingly rare and expensive? Is it plausible it is deployed on legions of weapons? Eh... I'm torn on the idea. And AFAIK there is no lore supporting it, but I'll admit to it being kinda headcannon to me too. Lacking anything better.
@@GomiBushi given the scale of conflicts units like Titans or superheavy tanks are deployed to, you will likely have vessels capable of teleportation in orbit as part of the support fleet which is where my reasoning comes from. If there is one thing WH40k does poorly it's properly give you the scale of things.
Also populations on planets, a place like Terra should be home to multiple Trillions if not Quadrillions of people given some of the details we have on the average space a person gets. whereas the best numbers I can find are a range of 200 billion to Quadrillions.
@@GomiBushi bro look up the squared cubed law. The titans are full of ancient, unknowable technology just tp keep them upright. I'm sure putting a teleporter in the arm of a machine which uses gravitational engines to stand up and protects itself with starship shields will be able to equip one.
@@Its-Just-Zip look up "ecumenopolises" by Isaac Arthur and you'll enjoy yourself. Whether you conclude a low number or high number later
Great argument Eldar, unfortunately I have a gigantic tank that mounts 5 A-10 Cannons.
"A wise man once asked, "Is it better to be feared or respected?" I say, is it too much to ask for both? With that in mind I humbly present you the crown jewel of Stark Industries' Freedom Line. It's the first missile system to incorporate latest proprietary Repulsor Technology. They say that the best weapon is the one that you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree! I prefer... the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it... and it's worked out pretty well so far." - Tony Stark
He said before being shredded by his own weapon
Then a small ork wagh came through the wormhole and wiped out the Avengers. Except the Hulk, he became da new boss.
Did you seriously just quoted Tony Stark?
@@CleveryBoy I felt like it's something he would make.
I turn on my tablet and this the first thing I see. Just yes
same here, i love this stuff
This type of weapon is what makes me love the idea of knight and titan pilots becoming addicted to their roles. I imagine if I was able to waltz around a battlefield unleashing firepower of such magnitude, I wouldn't want to stop either...
I love when leutin catches me by surprise i wasnt expecting a video so good so soon
‘Titanicus’ has some details on Titan operations, including how they get resupplied with specialised vey large vehicles there to provide resupplyIn the field. On the Vulcan mega Bolter on the Warhound, there’s quite a big space behind the mega bolter (look how far forward the ejection port is) that could be filled with extra ammo.
Before i ever got into 40k i was digging battletech, and i had an idea of doing a scratchbuild of a mech in a "realistic" style. Real modular armor, maybe some reactive, ammo hoppers/feeds, ejection ports for casings, functional shielded heat sinks, and pretty much whatever else i could come up w.
Imagine what a functional or at least somewhat functional titan would have going on....though i guess you could hide a lot of that in the damn cathedral lol.
Broke: Titans have cathedrals because Mechanicus is Religious
Woke: Titans have cathedrals because they looked cooler to DAoT Humanity than just having giant radiators
Also keep in mind that most Warhounds carry a energy weapon as it's other army mount, and that Hounds are Hunters, so often their actual engagement time would be short but Brutal, and that Legio Command would be cycling them through for resupply. And in saying that the Titan Inferno Gun wouldn't be firing for long either.
"What good is it, Eldar, that you can plan and scheme and trick your enemies, when we can simply lay waste to all that we see? You're not half as clever as you think, alien." ~Some Commissar, with his boot on the soon to be snapped neck of a knife-ear.
"foolish monkeigh we have already perfected that, we just have the maturity to show restraint"- said eldar before said commisar gets a d-cannon to the face.
dont forget how insane eldar weaponry is. black hole guns, the insanity that is the vibro and d-canon, fuckin pulsars that can easily 1-tap titans.
@@bluestormpony No one's forgetting a handful of powerful weapons, that's not the point: It's the mass delivery of hordes of troops+equipment and the will to use it that weapons like the megabolter exemplify.
Eldar aren't exactly known for brute force tactics and they constantly underestimate the lengths humans are willing to go to. Despite Eldar looking down on them, they secretly do see themselves in humans and hope for the better.
Eldar won't field an army and powerful weaponry unless they're positively sure that they'll win.
They overly rely on tactics to utilize their strengths and minimize their losses. They have everything to lose and very little to gain. Their hesitancy is their downfall; It's THE ongoing theme with them.
Eldar are written like Primarchs: Very stupidly. For all the intellect and wisdom they're supposed to possess, the author rarely reaches the same conclusion that a being like that would, so it's hard to write a satisfying story, especially when it's the dilemmas and grimdark (which is more often grimderp) that carries things forwards.
In conclusion, they field five or ten guys with unbelievably powerful weapons, but against the numbers the guard alone can field in manpower and weapons (which aren't on the weak side either, in case you've forgotten) they are guaranteed to die and lose. Which is a cost they are unwilling to pay.
They can theoretically drop easy access ammo packs across the battlefield so the Titans and Dreadnoughts can just pick it and restock in matter of seconds. Just like high velocity drop pods.
Such a gamer idea 😂
I swear I remember a thunderhawk or something in a book making an ammo run out to a titan, but I could be mistaken.
You monster
y hv v vv v
Kinda like how they reloaded the walkers in the final matrix movie..
you always seem to release a video when I am already in the best mood. it's like I'm having a great night and then bam luetin turns it into an even better one somehow.
Gaunts Ghosts often had logistical topics at least in parts (mostly how the ghosts got screwed over again i think) one thing was how their enemy used gigantic stockpiles to keep a constant attilery barage going.
As for Warhounds i would guess the main Ammo supply is not in its weapon but in its body and the boxes are emergency stocks for when internal storage is empty
Considering that the firing GAU-8 Avenger literally BRAKES down the A-10 WHILE DIVING, imagine what a twin cannon like that can do.
While true the effect tends to be highly exaggerated, some people even believe that the recoil can make the plane stall which is bullshit. Basically it's measurable but not much more, and it wouldn't be even measurable if the A-10 actually dived steeply while attacking.
@@StormBringare - Well.
In fact i never flew one. But i have seen many A10 pilots who witnessed that effect.
First time I saw an A-10 fire it was at Holbeach ranges and it certainly slows them but every jet gets slowed by recoil. They’d shoot up ship targets just off shore.
Over the decades I heard plenty jets fire cannons in training or on ops and none were as loud as the A-10.
@@StormBringaretheoretically the gas produced from firing could stall the engines how long the gun would have to be shot for that to happen is another matter considering they pretty much fixed that problem during testing.There is also the fact its recoil is slightly more then one of the engines so if one stalled it would start slowing the plane down a whole lot more than the few mph it does with 2 engines
Something I do both in scifi and fantasy games is bringing what's essentially functionless scatter terrain that's straight up just ammo boxes with me, usually accompanied by a bloke who carries them. That's mostly because I with scifi games I can't really believe that any of my guys have enough ammo with them to last,unless the models have some sort of backpacks or they're using low fire rate weapons like snipers.
In one of my fantasy armies I've got archers with these Dark souls style giant bows that shoot fucking spear sized arrows so I resin printed out wooden crates and filled those with said giant arrows because there was no way I could just slap a quiver on those guys and call it a day. The models are from Valiant and the vile for anyone interested.
13:56
Small correction, the Stormlord's Vulcan Mega-Bolter can carry up to 10,000 rounds. The 4,000 round estimate was for the surrounding Heavy Bolter sponson weapons.
Fun fact, depleted uranium rounds are great not just for their high density, but also for being "self-sharpening", meaning when theybimpact armor, the round doesn't blunt, it burns away layer by layer, with yet another pointed layer below the last until it's pierced through.
The bullet becomes a beam of superhot plasma. Poor tank troops.
To mix in two quotes from another fictive universe about human firearms:
"The Asgard would never invent a weapon that propels small weights of iron and carbon alloys by igniting a powder of potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulfur."
"We're all about the pew-pew, you humans are all about the boom-boom"
(Thor, SG1)
Only one problem the Thor comment isn't entirely accurate, unless they where shooting weapons from the 1800's or earlier. The mix describes classical black powder, this powder was used in muskets up to very early cartridge firing firearms such as the stereotypical cowboy six shooter. Since the movie took place during the present day, firearms utilize smokeless powder and the components making up the powder are completely different. Usually using a nitrocellulose base
@@colinkillian9265 still holds the point
GW: *assembles confusing and counter-intuitive, badly thought out lore no one could hope to understand*
Luetin: Ah, it's on purpose to increase immersion
Different ppl have different ways of coping
The mega bolter should be much larger than the gau 8 on the A-10.
Most bolters are .75 cal (20mm) and most heavy bolters are 1 cal (25mm). So a mega bolter is probably anywhere from 30 - 40mm.
@@Jarms48 I'd agree with that, even with potential future materials, space to store ammunition is the real limiting factor on its effectiveness, even with 3-5 second bursts, its probably why energy weapons feature so much in a future war as ammunition packs/capacitor/chemical/quantum cells could in theory have near limitless energy storage depending on what physics 40k uses today
@@CaptainEshara the mechanicus for sure has 3D printers capable of keeping up with ammo needs - its the 41st millennia, I'm sure they figured that part out if they've figured out how to ignore gravity's effect on the squared cubed law with future tech.
@@TheBananamonger yeah i can just imagine a tech priest sitting in the back of the ammo hopper printing bullets, cursing his fep sheet broke and praying to the Omnissiah for a better STC scraper
@@CaptainEshara god, imagine being that guy.
You only have one job, but Omnissiah help you if something goes wrong.
I always love the technical drawings of vehicles with cutaways showing internal workings and design. I'm with you Luetin, make magazines bigger! Once seen, it can't be unseen.
Mega Bolter the new way to deliver Space Marines at high speed for insertion
Naw, just load them into missile tubes like the Angry Marines do and go flying into the enemy with middle fingers raised high and beat a Heretic to death with a steel chair.
16:10 "...rounds the size of a human skull. Whatever that means." lol Luetin's like, "We get it! You're grimdark! Can I have the calibre now please!?"
I honestly think that taking out the tape measure to measure anything is a million step process for the mechanicus, primarily involving a lot of incense.
The 30 RPS figure for the Vulcan Megabolter makes me think that the Mechanicus just inspects the machine-spirit and decides "this one wants to go slow (for a rotary gun), this one wants to go fast"
LOL, I was just about to say that, especially something the height of an Imperator titan
The Custodes have battle resupply serfs. They toss their gunblades off to them and switch to melee weapons while the serf reloads, then tosses the gun back.
You also often see loyalists / heretics looting ammo off of slain opponents.
I owe my life to an unknown A10 pilot.
Ironically I have read exactly one 40k story where supply lines really mattered. In the Dark Hunters story Umbra Summus (sadly no longer generally available due to copyright issues). A city under siege by Chaos space marines is only able to hold out so long as its bastion’s guns can be supplied by the city’s factory district. The threat of this supply line being severed before the book’s eponymous space marines can arrive being the main tension for the various human characters in the first half of the book.
I actually like to imagine that there are magazine compartments in the joints of astartes armor. For instance, under those massive shoulder plates.
4:50 the problem with measuring titan height is they don't have enough red or blue measuring sticks from old warhammer 40k starter boxes.
When I see these, I remember the battle of the dock in Matrix Revolution. I love to imagine small crews of gards or enginseer rushing to reload heavy tank or even titans, trying desperately to maintain the stock of ammo, and hence it's rate of fire. They would be vulnerable and important target to the ennemy, but damn does it make for a good scene!
Excellent video, as usual.
If supply interdiction really does interest you, perhaps you could do a video on the Taros Campaign? The T'au commander there specifically targeted Imperial supply lines because he could not match the Guard in open combat.
Ammo is a funny thing in 40k, even in the novels, movies and video games. Basically it's only an issue when it needs to be fore story reasons. Though it is often brought up a benefit of lasguns over bolters. That getting ammo for them can be hard for non Space Marines. And anything like a deep strike mission cut off from easy resupply makes them a very poor choice of weapon.
I'm a veteran and aircraft mechanic, and have experienced the effects of the A-10 firsthand. Also a big 40k fan, I can't imagine what a mega bolter would sound like.
Fun fact, an A-10 has to be at full throttle when it fires because the recoil of the cannon slows the aircraft to stall speeds if it's not at full speed.
It was interesting when I was reading about the early iterations of the A-10 that some of the gas and so on sprayed out or I think chemicals from the gun caused issues on the pilots screen, and even fed back into the engines and caused test versions to crash? so its why they had to position that scoop below to suck some of the expelled gas from the gun and prevent it from spraying back into the engines , or something along these lines
I love this episode. I'm working on a Stormlord right now, and was just wondering how effective this mega bolter would really be. It's a troop transport that also has to house thousands of bullets. It didn't make sense to me, but there we go again with "This is 40k. It's not supposed to make sense!" notion. I've shot a GAU-19 before that shoots 7.62 rounds, and i was through a thousand rounds in about 5 seconds, so a Mega Bolter that shoots WAY bigger rounds just does not fit my personal perspective haha. But I digress! Luetin! You're the man. I look forward to all your episodes, and love listening to them when I'm painting or on a long drive. You really help me out when I need some good lore, and I'm constantly learning. Can confirm that you got me back into the hobby, and you are more than right that WH/WH40k does help people with metal health issues. My PTSD has been so much more in control ever since i got back into it, and you and your videos also help me keep it all in check.
Thank you!
Alex
P.S.
Can we get an episode about the Imperial Navy at some point? Love me some Valkyries
GAU-19 that shoots 7.62? That doesn't make sense.
@@claytonkickflip7595 correction!!! You're right. It was the GAU-17.
@@pttrsnlx Oh haha my fault wasn’t trying to be rude was genuinely perplexed!
@@claytonkickflip7595 all good
Another, uh, fun fact about depleted uranium rounds. The material properties mean that while other metals dull as they penetrate, DU self sharpens as it slices through armor, and burns as it does so.
The Loremaster has blessed us again!
Opening size is not always an indicator of the caliber due to the use of barrel shrouds. Reference the M1919A4 which looks like it has a .50 size hole at the end of the barrel, but is actually .30 cal.
Ah yeah! Thanks for the upload! I'll get some wonderful sleep tonight!
In Betrayer, there's a description of used mega bolter casings being the length of a mans arm. Plus, Black Ops 3 has an LMG that prints it's own ammo. Don't know how likely that'd be, and you'd have thought it'd be mentioned at some point.
Years ago I made a comic character; "Kaptain Kalashnikov" who wielded a hammer and sickle and a belt fed AK47 with unlimited ammo. (His cape was also called the "Iron Curtain".)
I made it so his ammo bag had a teleporter device leading to a whole ammunition store. I think this sort of tech might be worth having on a Titans box mag. I think it's a fair rationalisation.
You make a really interesting point about the absence of ordnance logistics (coincidentally my dad's speciality when he was in the army) in a lot of 40k fiction. I think that one of the things I love about 'military sci-fi' is the attention to the tactics, strategies, and considered application of assets in battlefield situations; and like yourself, I feel that the logistics/supply issues are just as relevant. I guess this is why I can call to mind a few good examples of when such details HAVE been included, because they are the exceptions rather than the rule, and also they occur in Horus Heresy novels, so 30K not 40K. Those examples are from Betrayer, which goes into at least some detail about ammunition and supply drops during an invasion, and also the recurring character of General Ilya Ravallion, who worked to introduce a working logistical framework into the White Scars during the Heresy, precisely because they gave too little attention to the need for functional supply lines. There are probably some other examples too, but I have to say that I agree completely with the re-supply issues facing Terminator forces on space hulks - which is probably why they simply made the decision to have unlimited reloads in the Deathwing game!
Everyone else in DnD group: "No Mr. DM we dont care about the weight of the things, too much effort":)
Luetin: "Hold up"!
There's a reason my barbarian can carry one ton I need to be able to load my cannon any time I need
StarCraft addressed a similar issue in an interesting way. The units who would theoretically burn through ammunition have the ability to "synthesize" rounds. I forget the specific units, but it was the ones who utilized grenades. Seemed like a smart way to sidestep this exact issue
Though I've never been a particularly big fan of your videos on 40k weaponry, I do love how you manage to turn your discussions towards adjacent subjects and in this case specifically the attention to the operational and logistical requirements of these weapons. Even when you're covering extreme topics like exterminatus or titans, you never seem to limit yourself to the absurdity of the violence and always pivot into how these concepts could fit within the cultural and pragmatic values of the Empire, or other factions under discussion. Good stuff really, serious quality lore analysis.
lol i love how deep LT dives into the most simple subjects.
LT: *choking hands out stretched* ITS NOT SIMPLE!
"Easy for someone with a fucking A-10 Warthog strapped to their arm to say"
Heavy Flamer Heresy, TheRussianBadger
"Me, an intellectual: BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT"
Codex Astartes says: 900 RPM
Me, a heretic: *1800 RPM*
Ohman... How I love that constant juggling between rational, skeptical "neah... not possible, silly" and "Praise Omnissiah!!!" :D
Perfect ending for really crap week at this end.
Cheers!
I.
repeated phrase at 17:35 "when it comes to the issue of ammunition supply" happens twice, not a big deal but thought I'd point it out in case you gave a shit luetin lol
The best part about this video and this channel is when he calls stuff out that wouldn't work realistically I'd love a whole series about him trying to explain the stuff that realistically doesn't make sense
As a regular user of firearms, I'm glad you said something about capacity. I love me some 40k but it always knaws as my sanity. I mean, I can totally suspend the disbelief that red ones are faster... because they are but, come on... bolters couldn't have more than 12 rounds assuming the magazines use a spring feed follower.
Bolters fire .75 bolts (often), with a triple stack in a massive Marine sized magazine (the length of your thigh) it could hold 50 rounds easily.
People both underestimate the size of Marines weapons while also overestimating the size of Bolt rounds.
@@WozWozEre I'm going out on a limb with the assumption that you have limited to no access to real life firearms... at least of a magazine or belt fed variety. Exaggerated size was accounted for. Check how many 12g rounds fit in a box mag. Better yet, what inertial forces are inherent in moving just 10 rounds of 50bmg. Bigger the rounds the bigger the spring and follower, genius. Half the mag is spring and follower.
@@Bluematchhead Given my 8 years in the infantry I've got plenty of experience with firearms. The thing is we have no idea as to the internal mechanism of an Astartes bolter magazine. We have no idea if bolts are single, double, triple or even quadruple stacked. They may be fed by something as advanced as some sort of magnetic stacking system, we have no idea. We do know that some bolter's such as chaos bolters can take belt fed ammunition, therefore indicated that a spring and follower mechanism is not even required.
@@WozWozEre .73 is a shotgun round. If you want more than 12 you gotta go drum. Do the math.
@@Bluematchhead Not if the magazine is massive. Bolter magazines are not the size of a 5.56 or 7.62 30rd mag mate, they're HUGE.
All comes down to how we can imagine it. A Space Marine assault is not just the landers with marines in them but the landers with supplies behind them and servitors and serfs managing that stuff. I could imagine a thing where they drop supply drop pods farther into enemy lines too. There has to be Space Marines in chapters that specialize in the logistics because a Chapter Master and Captain can't be all things.
Wow, and a Kriss Vector in .45ACP has a firing rate of 1200 RPM.
You really do have a way with words, I don't even play 40k but love listening to the unparalleled dystopian nightmare of a universe, I like to think the writers really are predicting the trejectory we are currently on. Grim but fascinating =)
"The Megabolter has a relatively low firing rate of 30 rounds per second". Yes! 30 self propelled grenades a second. I'd like to see any modern Vulcan Cannon do that.
When in doubt, the answer for EVERY question is The Emperor
Plausibility is a major game breaker for me and my friends. When we're playing very scenarios typically we like to include conditions for capturing of Bases that are more nuanced and can include limits to which type of unit and how many can capture the objective... We like to think this balances out the whole supply thing as you may have to in one of our games, grab a token from one side of the board and carry it across the board, in order to utilize another objective on the other side.
What could be interesting is to extend plausibility to ammo counts. Give for example the huge gatling weapons discussed in this video a very limited number of shots? So that a knight for example can only shoot a few "bursts" before its out of ammo. Possibly even extend this to units so that you cant just shoot an infinite number of turns. I mean theres only so much bolter ammo a marine can carry around you know. And then maybe units whose guns use smaller ammo, such as guardsmen for example, would logically get more shots as they can carry more of the stuff. This cpuld compensate naturally for weaker guns.
Its a god machine.
It uses gravitational field manipulation to ignore the squared cubed law.
How hard is it to rationalize on board ammunition 3D printing advanced enough to turn raw energy into matter when we're talking about 100+ foot tall giant robots with miniguns the size of a house each?
@@TheBananamonger Because many lore sources indicate that they do indeed run on physical ammo suplies and theres no mention of borderline magical 3D printing hocus pocus? This seems like a lazy headcanon to justify the big boom booms in a universe which infamously doesn't do a good job of taking logistics or functionality into account and sacs them for le epic war.
@@hyde4004 thats because thats exactly what this is. Its a tabletop game for big boom booms and exploring daddy issues in the grimdark future.
I genuinely, truly do not care where the big building sized minigun gets its bullets when its attached to a 100 foot tall machine which shouldn't even be able to physically exist in most gravity wells.
@@TheBananamonger Well then it's simply a difference of what you look for from 40k. You like the ott dakka fantasy and thats all well and good. I, like Luetin, find it to be irritating when things that supposedly act on real world-like rules don't make sense at all.
The difference is that something like the gravity well manipulation stuff is something less quantifiable and therefore I can just chock it up to be science bs. But when the gun supposedly just works off of a physical onboard storage, yet there's no way to carry any meaningful amount of ammo that scale, I can't just think "oh well, its 40k science so whatever". Its literally telling me that a camel just fits trough the eye of a needle "cause science", so the logic of the world falls apart.
And really lore discussion imo becomes pretty meningless if everything can be explained away by some magic dark age tech or other nonsense. If nothing has to follow any logic then what's the point of even debating anything?
"The Devil's Laughter" is an awesome nickname.
13:13
a gatling is NOT for supressive fire, you want low RoF for that...
gatlings are good at delivering very precise strikes with lots of rounds in a short period of time.
supressing fire doesn't need to be precise, just enough to keep the enemy in cover
Yeah like those 1200 RPM MG42s from back in WW2. They couldn't suppress a damn thing. Too high ROF.
@@JunkCCCP you obviously can suppress with a high RoF, but it costs too much ammo to be efficient.
why send 200 rounds downrange when 20 would do the job?
when you pull the trigger on a high RoF weapon, you want to destroy whatever you are aiming at (see gau-8 vs armoured vehicles or MG42 vs clusters of infantry), but if you want to keep the enemy from poking their heads out, a few rounds here and there are usually enough
The A-10 Warthog's Cannon Is A Truly Fearsome Weapon
I always expected the Warhounds and most titans to have internal teleportation beacons always bringing in the necessary ammunition for very long engagements.
They are not that big and so would run dry rather rapidly but with such system it would explain how they can remain in combat for so long.
Bolters (in the few cutaways we get) are incredibly short chambered and barreled weapons. This leads to different problems with round stability and guidance but may lessen the Warhound problem: perhaps the magazines actually occupy much of the inside of the weapon arm behind the box you drew under the gun arm.
By the way: I am right there with you on suspension of disbelief being easier when a setting takes steps to be plausible in areas that closely parallel Real World (tm.) experience.
I have always thought it was fire lasers in the world of 40K, so I imagined every round to be some kind of battery and reusable multiple times hence no more storage problems
Reactor fed Lasers
Ammo-resupply battle servitors are a really cool concept and I could even see them being integrated into the tabletop.
As someone who served in the army, you can never carry enough ammo. I always thought about the ammo requirements of weapons in 40k. The bolt guns have fat mags that fire fat ammo, but the marines don't carry any sort of LBV or anything similar, to carry a sustainable amount of ammo. It's times like that when you need to remember this is just a fantasy universe.
Agreed. This reminds me of a saying I once heard that went:
'Amateurs talk about tactics, while professionals talk about logistics.'
Ok Siri, destroy the heretics.
"I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that."
Destroy. The. Heretics.
"I didn't catch that, try again."
It fires thousands of watermelon sized shells a minute. Perfect for anti-infantry!
For when an automatic grenade launcher just isn’t enough.
Imagine that GW had turned the titan megaholter upsidedown, so that the magazine was on the top of the gun, and the Imperium would have cargo aircrafts landing on the Titans arm to reload the mega bolter.
17:33 Right, I knew it! Luetin09 is a rogue AI from the future and he is trying to show us the actual future, which could be exactly like 40k!
in one of the recentish books involving primiaris theres mention of ammo drones/pods that drop mid combat, they actually sounded like they are drop pods that land throughout enemy lines that also act as locator beacons and objectives for each squad to head to and hold
On the note of ammunition, I set up my homebrew chaper (the Forlorn Hope) as always carrying much extra gear. I even pair every Devastator I build with a dedicated ammo carrier bearing the same kind of ammo backpack but just a regular bolter, a bit like real militaries do though IRL it's rarely less than two extra people on each weapon.
Script and delivery 10/10 as always, even the natural tangents, man Luetin we're very very lucky to have you!