If it is any comfort, we used to start in second gear and seldom used first. The plate also indicates 4th as pump gear. That means that 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio and 5th gear is an overdrive. When the mechanical governor begins hunting, you know its old school diesel.
Scott, I could teach you everything on the planet about how to pump. I was a career FF/EMT for 22 yrs here around the Atlanta metro. My full time #1 job was driving and pumping.
Nice Pioneer model. Brings back a lot of memories working on them, some of them we even good! Happy to share any info or attempt to answer any questions you may have . Lot of swap meets and flea markets around, may be a SPAAMFAA chapter near you. Have fun.
After you get some new rubber, drive it to your local fire station. I'd bet the Firefighters would love to pour all over it and show you how to run the pump. You might even score some old hose that they are retiring.
My town in NH had one of these, I believe it was called the Pioneer series of American LaFrance. It had a screaming Detriot engine, like this. It was a large hose carrier which was unique in the mid 1970s. It was much sought after by mutual aid towns and cities back in the day.😊
Glad you got a proper firetruck living there in the sticks and after that near shop fire, whew you were lucky there. I think we all wanted to hear the siren🚒
My hometown had a 1954 American La France 100 foot ladder truck. Started out with a V10 gas engine but was quickly repowered with a Cat. You never needed to use the siren as you could hear this straight piped beast 2 miles away! Truck remained in service until 2002 when it could not pass ladder testing. It also had the same shift pattern as your pumper. It was sold to a local collector who did the tedious work of making it the open cab truck it was when new. I got over my fear of heights on that ladder.
A few years back there was a tender for sale on a Ford chassis with an 8V-71. It had less than 1000 miles on it. They were selling it due to a leak in the water tank. It was being sold by the local volunteer fire department and it was maintained by a retired local mechanic who specialised in 2-stroke diesels.
I used to drive a 1972 American LaFrance pumper with a 12V71 and 5 speed transmission for a friend who bought it from the Beverly Hills Fire Department. The owner couldn't drive the truck so I drove the truck for him it in parades and to special events. The truck was fun to drive, but it was a handful with the oddball shift pattern on the 5 speed transmission. There is nothing like the sound of a 12V71 when it's wound up.
Mr. Scott, The transmission, if it is actually that shift pattern, is the same pattern used in military deuce and a half trucks. They made them so that a third person sitting in the middle wouldnt have to have the gear shift on them between their legs. This is why 4th gear is there, and 5th is up away from them. Hope this helps, and maybe you can look up more info about them on mil-spec vehicles like the deuce and a half. Good luck, sir.
When I first started on my fire dept we had a reserve ladder truck, 1964 American-Lafrance with a 100' steel ladder. That thing was fun to drive as long as you kept your right foot flat on the floor. And that 100' ladder was better than some roller coasters the wy it rocked back and forth when fully extended
I remember growing up in Bloomington IL in the 70s and at night in the summer with the windows open, you could hear the firetrucks on a call throughout the city. The Detroits were almost as loud as the sirens. 🚒
I live in southwest iowa and our local volunteer fire department has 2 of these still , they have newer trucks too but during grass fire season the old trucks come in handy when there's multiple fires,,,i live on a farm and have a modified self propelled sprayer ,it's a great offroad fire truck already having a 1500 gallon tank and a pair of 200GPM pumps ,,all i needed was a remote controlled fire turret on the front ,,i've been the first on scene more than once and had a fire under control before the volunteers got there
What a score! Absolute ripper, a little bit of TLC and it will come up a treat...lucky man Scott that Kelly lets you have so many 'new' toys. The dozer, the International and now the fire truck.
The smaller caps are 2 1/2'" the larger connection is a 6". That truck was designed to pump while parked. You put it into 4th gear and there should be a lever somewhere near driver to turn on the PTO/Pump and then let out the clutch. You then go to the pump panel and pull the lever for which ever hose you have off and there is a throttle on the panel to increase the pressure. Count the 2 1/2" outlets and that will tell you the pump capacity. 250gal per outlet = 500gal per min pump capacity. That big connection is for connecting to a hydrant or if you connect a hard suction pipe you can draft up out of a pool, pond or something like that. That big connection above front bumper is also for hydrant connection. Those red hard lines up top we called "booster" lines. Great for small fires and just roll em back on the reel. If you cap the big connection and make sure the levers are closed for those 2 connections higher on the panel the tank should hold water. There may or may not be a tank to pump valve. Obviously if it has one and it is closed no water gets to pump. Used for winter so no water is sitting in the pump to freeze. Or you put it into pump gear and let it idle to circulate the pump while parked in freezing conditions.
@@natevanlandingham1945 Maybe I am mistaken on the values for each outlet then. Ii may be 500 per outlet, It's been a while since I needed to know that info.
@timothypogue596 no your correct on what max flow is out of a 2.5" connection but there is probably a large 5" outlet as well. Could have a deck gun...I'm only to the part they started it, also deck gun would possibly been stripped. It also won't go flat out on a few hoses either. I do know that to be classified as a tanker a pump can't be rated for more than 750GPM and engine is above that so I think minimum 750GPM but most are in the 1000+GPM range. There is often front discharge, left and right side discharges and often rear discharge for the hose bed lays.
@@natevanlandingham1945 I'm not up to speed any longer. I was on a city department and we did not deal with tankers. All of our engines were 1500gpm, with a 750 gal tank. A few older ones were 1250 till we replaced them. We were fortunate to have a hydrant every 300' so we only used tank water on small things or until a hydrant connection was made. Now that I think about it, we had 2 2.5" on each side, 1 rear and the deck gun, for 6 outlets for a total of 1500 gpm
Oh my goodness I loved these trucks as a kid; my city had a bunch of these 1970s American LaFrance Pioneers. This was my favorite cab style with the tilted forward windshield. And I know this is going to be a super nostalgic sound too. And yeah great for having some protection around if you get hoses and stuff with it or can keep the tank in good condition.
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so very pleased you have saved the pioneer American la france pumper and r doing it up and using it, i visited the factory in the 70's to see these built. I have collected and saved 3 x CF mack fire trucks here in NZ. will watch all yr videos and this rig. take care enjoy yr work. Laurie Thompson
Love that firetruck !!! It's fricken awesome. Gosh, every guy wants his own firetruck but how many actually end up owning one??? A dream come true !!!!!!!!
Very impressive ALF. The new Diesel engines are much quieter, cleaner, and gobs more HP and torque. Plus the ease of an ALLISON automatic. These old DETROIT’s had a unique sound that you never forget as a bus and fire apparatus fan.
Hey bud I just want to say that is one awesome looking fire truck that's unique I never seen any like that before that's how I think it's hot looking at that thing is gorgeous man I hope you restore and take good care of it I think earned its keep it's worth saving lots of love that fire truck buddy❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
"Scott's Home for Wayward 2-Strokes" takes in ANOTHER Homeless Detroit..... 🤣 You can always join the local Volunteer Fire Department - I'm SURE they'd love to have you!
Scott, be careful and inspect the treadle valve, brake pedal linkage. I’ve seen rusty ones. loose cotter pins, etc. it’s a place most people don’t look. As far as not being able to pump while driving, you can always can a 120 volt sump pump, and plumb it into the tank, and have the discharge a simple PVC pipe mounting behind the fire truck with holes drilled into it. Press a button and it starts pumping from the tank. You would need to go from a two inch diameter and probably down size it. I’m not an expert and I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I like to share my thoughts. Use at your own risk.
Again I love your channel and you guys are what I call real mechanics !! U guys don't miss a hair on them buses ! It's so hard to find people like u guys .. just about all mechanics are jokes now but you guys are the real deal!!💪💪
I am a longtime channel subscriber and antique fire apparatus aficionado. There is an easy connection between bus and fire apparatus fans. Many of the drive train parts are the same.
We had these style of fire truck when I first joined our volunteer fire department. It's a very cold drive when the temperature dipped below 0 degrees F, the engine doesn't give off enough heat to keep you warm. The bottom is a 6 inch suction pipe and the top two are 2.5 inch discharge pipes. The tank is likely a 500 gallon one so you'll need a large water source for fire fighting. If you do want it for fire fighting, bury a 10,000 gallon water tank with a 6" stand pipe for hookup.
Cold? Ha! We had an open cab 1956 Federal. Try hanging off the backend of one of those in the winter snow at 7000 feet. It would only go 25 mph up our 9% grade at Lake Tahoe!! Edit. V-12 gas engine.
Jay Leno has a 39 American Le France. He explained in his video about the screwy shift pattern. It’s about keeping the shifter out of the way of the fireman sitting next to him.
Good follow up to the shop rag fire. Everyone in the country should have a working pumper on hand.The larger fitting on the drivers side is the pump intake for pumping from a hydrant or drafting water from a pond using hard suction hoses. . You will want to find a gated intake valve for the pump panel side. The two upper fittings are pump outlets. to 2 1/2 inch fire hoses. You dont need covers for them, but make sure you have the gate valves on the panel closed before you pump water or you will get wet. Your local fire departments will have buffs that can point you to sourced of parts. If the pump was not left with water in it and froze and split, then probably replacing the pump shaft packings will put it into service. Welcome to a new and fun aspect of collecting. I was in the fire service 30 years as call firefighter. Rode many times to structure fires in the rear facing seat with my feet braced against the diamond plate.
Nice purchase bro, yeah that is a interesting gear shift pattern. A guy I follow on Utoob has a Autocar and an army truck with that shift pattern also. Be awesome to get it all working too. Safe travels. Ken.
Ran 2 of these for a lot of years. ALF Pioneers. 4th is in that spot because it drives the PTO gear for the pump. Shift linkage needs some work usually. Lines are 2 1/2" outlets, 6" inlet Be sure to pull all the drains for the lines and valves if you intend to park it outdoors in freezing weather. They WILL break if they freeze up. Looks like a 750 pump but that would be on the rating plate.
I wouldn't be surprised if it has a Spicer tranny in it. They flipped 4th and 5th depending on whether it was direct in 5th, or Overdrive in 5th. Pumping was always in Direct. Be sure to check the pump transmission for oil (and water?) before you go too far. And yeah, with no water and no hose, absolutely ignore 1st gear. Water is about 8.5 lbs. a gallon, so it was geared to handle an additional almost 5000 lbs. with water alone, not to mention hose, tools, and a crew of 4 or 5. You may not recognize the throttle/governor set-up. The engineer could set a pump pressure governor that would automatically pull down the throttle if a hose line out of two or three were shut down unexpectedly. That way, the pressure wouldn't spike too badly and knock the guy on the tip on his A$$. ;-) Exciting to us firetruck enthusiasts! LOTS of Detroit 2-strokes in fire trucks out there.
The city I grew up in bought one of these in 1970, you could hear it coming from a mile or two away. within 5 years, they had replaced their other truck with a new one. I think the old ones were 50's or early 60's vintage gas powered. I actually grew up in an unincorporated area that had a volunteer department, their pumper was a late 40's with a huge gas engine, they bought it new and ran it until the early eighties when the city built a second station on the edge of the unincorporated area to cover a shopping center that was built.
You are living a great life!! An American LaFrance pumper truck is just awesome to have! Hopefully you will spruce it up and use it in parades and such as that. Very very cool deal..
I think it is safe to say that Scott is a sucker for anything with a Detroit diesel engine. There was the dozer, the International semi and now this fire engine.
The only caps you need is the 6" "steamer" cap for the intake to the pump. There is no valve on that - it goes directly to the pump. Everything else has a valve, as long as the valve is closed you don't need the cap. Hope you have fun with it. Next time find one just as it is being decomissioned. Anything older than about 2000 won't cost much, especially with a 500 gallon tank. The 2 stroke diesels were still common into the early '90s on fire trucks.
I had a 1971 American LaFrance Pioneer for a few years. That one had a 6V-53 and Allison automatic of some description and was capable of pumping and driving at the same time. It's been a while but IIRC that big honkin knob on the dash on mine was the air shifter for the pump PTO. With the automatic, you'd shift the PTO in neutral then kick it back into drive. Mine had 3 settings - drive, pump, and pump & drive. Guessing with yours, you'd kick it in when 4th is engaged and let out on the clutch. Old pumpers don't age well for country use but they're able to limp on for years in city use. 500 gallons seem like a lot, but you can burn through that scary fast. Mine had a 1250 gallon per minute pump and it'd pump like a hellcat, but it wouldn't draft from a water source to save its own life. It's a fairly common problem, seals get dry with age and it won't pull a vacuum (there is usually even an electrical auxiliary vacuum pump and still no bueno). So if you don't have a way to feed it water, you can't count on being able to drop a hard line in the nearest pond or swimming pool. And, they really don't like being run dry. I kept a 3" trash pump on the tailboard "just in case" after having that issue on a major field fire when the truck was still in active service. They're pretty foolproof to pump though as long as you baby em a bit. Make sure they don't run dry (the water level indicators rarely work right), don't can water in the pump (make sure the tank to pump valve is open during operation), dry it out before freezing weather if you don't have a heated bay for it, just common sense stuff. Oh, and watch your pressure - the black knob with the red button in the center is your throttle, don't get carried away with it or you can send people flying or start breaking things lol. In a brown pants moment, just smash the red button with your palm and it'll let you push the throttle all the way to idle fairly quick, assuming the cable isn't frozen or sticky (something to check).
This has a midships pump-meaning that the transfer case shifts from pump operation to traction. There is no way to engage the pump and drive at the same time. The pump suction will have to have a cap to test the pump. For driveway maintenance you could add a gas driven pump for that purpose. I spent 15 years as a volunteer firefighter in the 80s and our pumper was a similar American LaFrance. Please reach out to me if there is anything I can help you with this unit-I also own a Wanderlodge 88fc,
I have the same model and I had difficulty with shift pattern too then after I got it home I saw the faded placard realized I was trying to load it in second 😮 Mine is a V6.let me know how to engage the pump none of the valves on the water pump turn so who knows I’ve watched you all for years and just had to have a Detroit. I’ve had it for a couple yrs haven’t run it since I got it home.
Maybe the 4th 5th gears reversed in the shift pattern is a carryover from Deuce and a half military pattern. Having the high-speed gear forward gives more leg room for a third person riding in the cab.
Studebaker designed a pickup truck using that design. It never went in production, so I assume they sold it to Crane Carrier Corporation, American LaFrance. Pioneer Cabs were built by TCM aka Cincinnati Cab. Pioneer Cab was LaFrance economy cab. That Studebaker/Westinghouse was a joint venture that never happened. I found the information on Facebook.
I used to drive my city's 1980 American LaFrance. It had a different cab but the same engine and transmission. I thought I'd never be able to drive it the first time I tried, but then I got to where I could shift it all the way up and down without the clutch.
If the valves are ok on the discharges and inlets, you'll just need caps for the 6" intakes, those are usually part of the pump casting, and don't have internal valves. Connections higher than those are discharges, and connections below are intakes. I can probably answer questions if you'd like.
Hey Scott, the “P’ in the serial number is for Pioneer, that is an American La France Pioneer Series. You don’t necessarily need the caps on the outlets on the pump other than to keep debris out. The larger one with the screen as an inlet. Make sure you don’t store water in it during the winter if it’s sitting outside and that the pumps dry
The larger one is one that definitely needs a cap. The smaller ones are discharges that flow water out. The larger one is a tank fill intake. (Aka) that is what comes from a fire hydrant into the truck. But you can cap all the rest just in case the packing in the pump leaks and you'll have to keep filling it.
If it spent any part of its life at a rural department it did reach highway speeds! Probably wasn't governed like the newer ones either. Our trucks routinely ride on the governor to calls. Engines hit 65 at the governor.
Scott, You need 2.5" NH thread caps for the small outlets, the bigger outlet should be a 6" NH long handle cap. Some are available online on eBay or amazon, but normally sold by fire equipment vendors. If you need any more info, give me a shout, I work in the fire service, and was a driver/operator for a long time.
The shift pattern is because where 4th gear is on that transmission is 1 to 1 ratio . Most transmissions are built so that shift postion is direct drive . To have an overdrive gear, the shift pattern has to accommodate that. That is why the shift pattern is backwards
Duece and half for the crosslays. The other one looks like hard suction intake. There is a valve behind it i think. Connected to a lever. Love it and love to repairs if needed.
Old firefighter here. Unfortunately, you can't drive and pump at the same time with this style pump. The pump is powered by the main driveshaft, and when it is engaged, there is no power to the differential. The smaller fittings are standard 2-1/2 inch hydrant thread. The male fittings are discharges, and any 2-1/2" females are inlet ports. The big 6" is an inlet, and it will have to be capped in order for the pump to work. Your idea about gravity feeding is probably your best option for watering the driveway.
He can still spray the driveway in segments with the hose by walking the line. If he wanted a drive and spray he should have been looking at construction site potable water vehicles or an old agriculture sprayer
Hi Scott, congratulations on your new toy very cool 👍🏼, that shift pattern is like the early 911 Porsche boxes 901 5 Speed there tricky even in the cars , fire truck sounds healthy almost like Lenny love it 🏁 enjoy. 👋🏼thank you for Sharing.
Liked the question" you know much about them old Detroits"
Haha yea came here when I heard that
OBVIOUSLY hasn't seen Scott's Channel!
If it is any comfort, we used to start in second gear and seldom used first. The plate also indicates 4th as pump gear. That means that 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio and 5th gear is an overdrive. When the mechanical governor begins hunting, you know its old school diesel.
It’s pretty rare that a fire truck of that vintage is still intact. It’d be beautiful shined up in a parade .
Scott, I could teach you everything on the planet about how to pump. I was a career FF/EMT for 22 yrs here around the Atlanta metro. My full time #1 job was driving and pumping.
Nice score! American La France was THE fire truck back in the day, and for many decades were highly desirable.
Duel purpose truck: wets the driveway and kills the mosquitoes at the same time! Cool find, Scott!
Nice Pioneer model. Brings back a lot of memories working on them, some of them we even good! Happy to share any info or attempt to answer any questions you may have . Lot of swap meets and flea markets around, may be a SPAAMFAA chapter near you. Have fun.
After you get some new rubber, drive it to your local fire station. I'd bet the Firefighters would love to pour all over it and show you how to run the pump. You might even score some old hose that they are retiring.
My town in NH had one of these, I believe it was called the Pioneer series of American LaFrance. It had a screaming Detriot engine, like this. It was a large hose carrier which was unique in the mid 1970s. It was much sought after by mutual aid towns and cities back in the day.😊
My father was born and raised in Greeneville, TN, so this has interest for me.
Glad you got a proper firetruck living there in the sticks and after that near shop fire, whew you were lucky there. I think we all wanted to hear the siren🚒
My hometown had a 1954 American La France 100 foot ladder truck. Started out with a V10 gas engine but was quickly repowered with a Cat. You never needed to use the siren as you could hear this straight piped beast 2 miles away! Truck remained in service until 2002 when it could not pass ladder testing. It also had the same shift pattern as your pumper. It was sold to a local collector who did the tedious work of making it the open cab truck it was when new. I got over my fear of heights on that ladder.
Every guy needs an antique fire truck! 🥰
You’re not wrong 💯👍
not only guys "(¬ . ¬)" i also like firetrucks
A few years back there was a tender for sale on a Ford chassis with an 8V-71. It had less than 1000 miles on it. They were selling it due to a leak in the water tank. It was being sold by the local volunteer fire department and it was maintained by a retired local mechanic who specialised in 2-stroke diesels.
That 6-71 sounds healthy! Nice purchase Scott!
I used to drive a 1972 American LaFrance pumper with a 12V71 and 5 speed transmission for a friend who bought it from the Beverly Hills Fire Department. The owner couldn't drive the truck so I drove the truck for him it in parades and to special events. The truck was fun to drive, but it was a handful with the oddball shift pattern on the 5 speed transmission. There is nothing like the sound of a 12V71 when it's wound up.
Nice score! That Detroit runs very well!
As a British coach operator I'm beginning to love the sound of your 671 !
American LaFrance Pioneer . Cab Forward design. Drove several in my career.
Mr. Scott,
The transmission, if it is actually that shift pattern, is the same pattern used in military deuce and a half trucks. They made them so that a third person sitting in the middle wouldnt have to have the gear shift on them between their legs. This is why 4th gear is there, and 5th is up away from them. Hope this helps, and maybe you can look up more info about them on mil-spec vehicles like the deuce and a half. Good luck, sir.
I was drinking my morning coffee and seen this posted 59 seconds ago. I was looking for a fire truck to build a flat deck out of and have the big cab.
There is one just like this in Mishawaka, In. Been sitting for sale for a long time.
Wow BGM Mountain gets a fire truck! Any fire truck that can up the hill in 3rd gear is a keeper.
When I first started on my fire dept we had a reserve ladder truck, 1964 American-Lafrance with a 100' steel ladder. That thing was fun to drive as long as you kept your right foot flat on the floor. And that 100' ladder was better than some roller coasters the wy it rocked back and forth when fully extended
I remember growing up in Bloomington IL in the 70s and at night in the summer with the windows open, you could hear the firetrucks on a call throughout the city. The Detroits were almost as loud as the sirens. 🚒
I live in southwest iowa and our local volunteer fire department has 2 of these still , they have newer trucks too but during grass fire season the old trucks come in handy when there's multiple fires,,,i live on a farm and have a modified self propelled sprayer ,it's a great offroad fire truck already having a 1500 gallon tank and a pair of 200GPM pumps ,,all i needed was a remote controlled fire turret on the front ,,i've been the first on scene more than once and had a fire under control before the volunteers got there
I love knowing someone is out there saving those amazing Detroits they are a big part of what built and served America
What a score! Absolute ripper, a little bit of TLC and it will come up a treat...lucky man Scott that Kelly lets you have so many 'new' toys. The dozer, the International and now the fire truck.
Kelly: "scott, now what did you bring home? They arent puppies!!!" Lol😂😂😂😂
The smaller caps are 2 1/2'" the larger connection is a 6". That truck was designed to pump while parked. You put it into 4th gear and there should be a lever somewhere near driver to turn on the PTO/Pump and then let out the clutch. You then go to the pump panel and pull the lever for which ever hose you have off and there is a throttle on the panel to increase the pressure. Count the 2 1/2" outlets and that will tell you the pump capacity. 250gal per outlet = 500gal per min pump capacity. That big connection is for connecting to a hydrant or if you connect a hard suction pipe you can draft up out of a pool, pond or something like that. That big connection above front bumper is also for hydrant connection. Those red hard lines up top we called "booster" lines. Great for small fires and just roll em back on the reel. If you cap the big connection and make sure the levers are closed for those 2 connections higher on the panel the tank should hold water. There may or may not be a tank to pump valve. Obviously if it has one and it is closed no water gets to pump. Used for winter so no water is sitting in the pump to freeze. Or you put it into pump gear and let it idle to circulate the pump while parked in freezing conditions.
That's an engine it's got to be at least 1250gpm I believe to be classified as an engine!
@@natevanlandingham1945 Maybe I am mistaken on the values for each outlet then. Ii may be 500 per outlet, It's been a while since I needed to know that info.
@timothypogue596 no your correct on what max flow is out of a 2.5" connection but there is probably a large 5" outlet as well. Could have a deck gun...I'm only to the part they started it, also deck gun would possibly been stripped. It also won't go flat out on a few hoses either. I do know that to be classified as a tanker a pump can't be rated for more than 750GPM and engine is above that so I think minimum 750GPM but most are in the 1000+GPM range.
There is often front discharge, left and right side discharges and often rear discharge for the hose bed lays.
@@natevanlandingham1945 I'm not up to speed any longer. I was on a city department and we did not deal with tankers. All of our engines were 1500gpm, with a 750 gal tank. A few older ones were 1250 till we replaced them. We were fortunate to have a hydrant every 300' so we only used tank water on small things or until a hydrant connection was made. Now that I think about it, we had 2 2.5" on each side, 1 rear and the deck gun, for 6 outlets for a total of 1500 gpm
So if you do the math, you would empty the tank in a half minute?
Great video 👍 The logic you put into these purchases is so sound 😊😊
Oh my goodness I loved these trucks as a kid; my city had a bunch of these 1970s American LaFrance Pioneers. This was my favorite cab style with the tilted forward windshield. And I know this is going to be a super nostalgic sound too. And yeah great for having some protection around if you get hoses and stuff with it or can keep the tank in good condition.
so very pleased you have saved the pioneer American la france pumper and r doing it up and using it, i visited the factory in the 70's to see these built. I have collected and saved 3 x CF mack fire trucks here in NZ. will watch all yr videos and this rig. take care enjoy yr work. Laurie Thompson
Love that firetruck !!! It's fricken awesome. Gosh, every guy wants his own firetruck but how many actually end up owning one??? A dream come true !!!!!!!!
You've made some really cool investments recently with the 4070A and now this classic fire truck
Very impressive ALF. The new Diesel engines are much quieter, cleaner, and gobs more HP and torque. Plus the ease of an ALLISON automatic. These old DETROIT’s had a unique sound that you never forget as a bus and fire apparatus fan.
Gotta have its own Fire Station built, love it.
Hey bud I just want to say that is one awesome looking fire truck that's unique I never seen any like that before that's how I think it's hot looking at that thing is gorgeous man I hope you restore and take good care of it I think earned its keep it's worth saving lots of love that fire truck buddy❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
"Scott's Home for Wayward 2-Strokes" takes in ANOTHER Homeless Detroit..... 🤣
You can always join the local Volunteer Fire Department - I'm SURE they'd love to have you!
All are welcome.
Supply your own truck
@@BusGreaseMonkey how long did Detroit make the 671 for?
@rudycarlson8245 the 671 just over 40 years probably… maybe more
Every little boys dream! Their own fire truck! Love it!💪👊
Scott, be careful and inspect the treadle valve, brake pedal linkage. I’ve seen rusty ones. loose cotter pins, etc. it’s a place most people don’t look.
As far as not being able to pump while driving, you can always can a 120 volt sump pump, and plumb it into the tank, and have the discharge a simple PVC pipe mounting behind the fire truck with holes drilled into it. Press a button and it starts pumping from the tank. You would need to go from a two inch diameter and probably down size it. I’m not an expert and I don’t know what I’m talking about, but I like to share my thoughts. Use at your own risk.
Again I love your channel and you guys are what I call real mechanics !! U guys don't miss a hair on them buses ! It's so hard to find people like u guys .. just about all mechanics are jokes now but you guys are the real deal!!💪💪
The sound of a 2 stroke diesel, like a dinosaur of the past.❤
that would make a hell of a service truck
What a funky machine!
1:15 Nice of the gentleman to point out that huge crack on the right front end.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That old truck sure looks like it has some stories to tell.
That's so awesome! That thing just got a great home! Looking forward to seeing more on it.
I am a longtime channel subscriber and antique fire apparatus aficionado. There is an easy connection between bus and fire apparatus fans. Many of the drive train parts are the same.
Nice fire truck!! I remember back in the days we have to double clutch when shifting gears.
We had these style of fire truck when I first joined our volunteer fire department. It's a very cold drive when the temperature dipped below 0 degrees F, the engine doesn't give off enough heat to keep you warm.
The bottom is a 6 inch suction pipe and the top two are 2.5 inch discharge pipes. The tank is likely a 500 gallon one so you'll need a large water source for fire fighting. If you do want it for fire fighting, bury a 10,000 gallon water tank with a 6" stand pipe for hookup.
He already has a swimming pool!
Cold? Ha! We had an open cab 1956 Federal. Try hanging off the backend of one of those in the winter snow at 7000 feet. It would only go 25 mph up our 9% grade at Lake Tahoe!! Edit. V-12 gas engine.
WHAT??? The cat didn't come with it?? Great find that will provide fire protection and a less dusty driveway - one day.
😅😅😅😅😅
Jay Leno has a 39 American Le France. He explained in his video about the screwy shift pattern. It’s about keeping the shifter out of the way of the fireman sitting next to him.
3:03 - "...you know much about 2 stroke diesels?.." Ha, he hasn't watched your channel😅
Hehe
Haha yea funny as soon as I heard that your comment was the one that appeared on the comment preview and I was thinking the same thing!
Yeah that’s like asking Gordon Ramsay if he can cook an omelette
Good follow up to the shop rag fire. Everyone in the country should have a working pumper on hand.The larger fitting on the drivers side is the pump intake for pumping from a hydrant or drafting water from a pond using hard suction hoses. . You will want to find a gated intake valve for the pump panel side. The two upper fittings are pump outlets. to 2 1/2 inch fire hoses. You dont need covers for them, but make sure you have the gate valves on the panel closed before you pump water or you will get wet. Your local fire departments will have buffs that can point you to sourced of parts. If the pump was not left with water in it and froze and split, then probably replacing the pump shaft packings will put it into service. Welcome to a new and fun aspect of collecting. I was in the fire service 30 years as call firefighter. Rode many times to structure fires in the rear facing seat with my feet braced against the diamond plate.
Nice purchase bro, yeah that is a interesting gear shift pattern. A guy I follow on Utoob has a Autocar and an army truck with that shift pattern also. Be awesome to get it all working too. Safe travels. Ken.
Ran 2 of these for a lot of years. ALF Pioneers. 4th is in that spot because it drives the PTO gear for the pump. Shift linkage needs some work usually. Lines are 2 1/2" outlets, 6" inlet Be sure to pull all the drains for the lines and valves if you intend to park it outdoors in freezing weather. They WILL break if they freeze up. Looks like a 750 pump but that would be on the rating plate.
When I was on a fd, we had a 1971 looked just like this. Easy to run pump if it's in working condition.
To fill the tank. Go on top of the truck and there's a hatch that lifts up to fill
I wouldn't be surprised if it has a Spicer tranny in it. They flipped 4th and 5th depending on whether it was direct in 5th, or Overdrive in 5th. Pumping was always in Direct. Be sure to check the pump transmission for oil (and water?) before you go too far. And yeah, with no water and no hose, absolutely ignore 1st gear. Water is about 8.5 lbs. a gallon, so it was geared to handle an additional almost 5000 lbs. with water alone, not to mention hose, tools, and a crew of 4 or 5.
You may not recognize the throttle/governor set-up. The engineer could set a pump pressure governor that would automatically pull down the throttle if a hose line out of two or three were shut down unexpectedly. That way, the pressure wouldn't spike too badly and knock the guy on the tip on his A$$. ;-)
Exciting to us firetruck enthusiasts! LOTS of Detroit 2-strokes in fire trucks out there.
The city I grew up in bought one of these in 1970, you could hear it coming from a mile or two away. within 5 years, they had replaced their other truck with a new one. I think the old ones were 50's or early 60's vintage gas powered. I actually grew up in an unincorporated area that had a volunteer department, their pumper was a late 40's with a huge gas engine, they bought it new and ran it until the early eighties when the city built a second station on the edge of the unincorporated area to cover a shopping center that was built.
Awesome Truck, would have liked to be a fly on wall when you tried to explain to Kelly that you need one😂 well done every mans childhood dream ❤
You are living a great life!! An American LaFrance pumper truck is just awesome to have! Hopefully you will spruce it up and use it in parades and such as that. Very very cool deal..
American LaFrance nice !!
Rilliant fund. Just think of all the fetes and shows you could show it at! A great project amongst the many you already have! Great buy.
I think it is safe to say that Scott is a sucker for anything with a Detroit diesel engine. There was the dozer, the International semi and now this fire engine.
That things awesome 😁. Who wouldn't want one?!
My wife
😂
@@BusGreaseMonkey Did she say"What did you buy now?" Or something similar??
@@darrenstafford7492 She said "Dalmatian, you're sleeping in the firehouse tonight!"
@@troycarothers8254 hahaha!
The only caps you need is the 6" "steamer" cap for the intake to the pump. There is no valve on that - it goes directly to the pump. Everything else has a valve, as long as the valve is closed you don't need the cap. Hope you have fun with it. Next time find one just as it is being decomissioned. Anything older than about 2000 won't cost much, especially with a 500 gallon tank. The 2 stroke diesels were still common into the early '90s on fire trucks.
I had a 1971 American LaFrance Pioneer for a few years. That one had a 6V-53 and Allison automatic of some description and was capable of pumping and driving at the same time. It's been a while but IIRC that big honkin knob on the dash on mine was the air shifter for the pump PTO. With the automatic, you'd shift the PTO in neutral then kick it back into drive. Mine had 3 settings - drive, pump, and pump & drive. Guessing with yours, you'd kick it in when 4th is engaged and let out on the clutch.
Old pumpers don't age well for country use but they're able to limp on for years in city use. 500 gallons seem like a lot, but you can burn through that scary fast. Mine had a 1250 gallon per minute pump and it'd pump like a hellcat, but it wouldn't draft from a water source to save its own life. It's a fairly common problem, seals get dry with age and it won't pull a vacuum (there is usually even an electrical auxiliary vacuum pump and still no bueno). So if you don't have a way to feed it water, you can't count on being able to drop a hard line in the nearest pond or swimming pool. And, they really don't like being run dry. I kept a 3" trash pump on the tailboard "just in case" after having that issue on a major field fire when the truck was still in active service.
They're pretty foolproof to pump though as long as you baby em a bit. Make sure they don't run dry (the water level indicators rarely work right), don't can water in the pump (make sure the tank to pump valve is open during operation), dry it out before freezing weather if you don't have a heated bay for it, just common sense stuff. Oh, and watch your pressure - the black knob with the red button in the center is your throttle, don't get carried away with it or you can send people flying or start breaking things lol. In a brown pants moment, just smash the red button with your palm and it'll let you push the throttle all the way to idle fairly quick, assuming the cable isn't frozen or sticky (something to check).
That's a Pioneer I. Man I wish it had a 6V53 like the ones in Shreveport , LA.
What an investment, a valuable asset, great find !
This has a midships pump-meaning that the transfer case shifts from pump operation to traction. There is no way to engage the pump and drive at the same time. The pump suction will have to have a cap to test the pump. For driveway maintenance you could add a gas driven pump for that purpose. I spent 15 years as a volunteer firefighter in the 80s and our pumper was a similar American LaFrance. Please reach out to me if there is anything I can help you with this unit-I also own a Wanderlodge 88fc,
You are having way too much fun. 😂
I have the same model and I had difficulty with shift pattern too then after I got it home I saw the faded placard realized I was trying to load it in second 😮
Mine is a V6.let me know how to engage the pump none of the valves on the water pump turn so who knows I’ve watched you all for years and just had to have a Detroit. I’ve had it for a couple yrs haven’t run it since I got it home.
Jay Leno fixed up an old Burbank CA Fire Dept Truck. It had been sitting at the Burbank Airport and they wanted it off the property.
Maybe the 4th 5th gears reversed in the shift pattern is a carryover from Deuce and a half military pattern. Having the high-speed gear forward gives more leg room for a third person riding in the cab.
Studebaker designed a pickup truck using that design. It never went in production, so I assume they sold it to Crane Carrier Corporation, American LaFrance. Pioneer Cabs were built by TCM aka Cincinnati Cab. Pioneer Cab was LaFrance economy cab.
That Studebaker/Westinghouse was a joint venture that never happened.
I found the information on Facebook.
Your channel made the sale believe me he knows you can save it and use it! Owner respects you.
I used to drive my city's 1980 American LaFrance. It had a different cab but the same engine and transmission. I thought I'd never be able to drive it the first time I tried, but then I got to where I could shift it all the way up and down without the clutch.
I have never commented on your channel. But please take us along for the ride of figuring out which button does what...
Who’s going to show me?
@@BusGreaseMonkeystand to the side and pull it you will no what it does then just be to the side
A cracking restoration project there.
That fire truck is really in good shape
Nice truck. Can't wait to see what you do with it.
Wow - didn’t see that big red one coming!
If the valves are ok on the discharges and inlets, you'll just need caps for the 6" intakes, those are usually part of the pump casting, and don't have internal valves. Connections higher than those are discharges, and connections below are intakes. I can probably answer questions if you'd like.
Hey Scott, the “P’ in the serial number is for Pioneer, that is an American La France Pioneer Series. You don’t necessarily need the caps on the outlets on the pump other than to keep debris out. The larger one with the screen as an inlet. Make sure you don’t store water in it during the winter if it’s sitting outside and that the pumps dry
The larger one is one that definitely needs a cap. The smaller ones are discharges that flow water out. The larger one is a tank fill intake. (Aka) that is what comes from a fire hydrant into the truck. But you can cap all the rest just in case the packing in the pump leaks and you'll have to keep filling it.
Our FD used to have an American LaFrance Pioneer that was in service for over 30 years. It was a great truck, even if it was uglier than a war wound.
Hey. That grandchild has their own 🚒 firetruck!
She was playing in it yesterday. Didn’t want to get out.
If it spent any part of its life at a rural department it did reach highway speeds! Probably wasn't governed like the newer ones either. Our trucks routinely ride on the governor to calls. Engines hit 65 at the governor.
Scott, You need 2.5" NH thread caps for the small outlets, the bigger outlet should be a 6" NH long handle cap. Some are available online on eBay or amazon, but normally sold by fire equipment vendors. If you need any more info, give me a shout, I work in the fire service, and was a driver/operator for a long time.
The shift pattern is because where 4th gear is on that transmission is 1 to 1 ratio . Most transmissions are built so that shift postion is direct drive . To have an overdrive gear, the shift pattern has to accommodate that. That is why the shift pattern is backwards
A great project project 👍🏻🤩😁
P stands for Pioneer which is the cab model of LaFrance fire engine.
HEY, THANKS for saving that old Beast. As stated "if it could talk". I've thought of several uses for it.
Duece and half for the crosslays. The other one looks like hard suction intake. There is a valve behind it i think. Connected to a lever. Love it and love to repairs if needed.
Very nice find. Think it is similar to what Gage and DeSota would be around in 'Emergency'
Old firefighter here. Unfortunately, you can't drive and pump at the same time with this style pump. The pump is powered by the main driveshaft, and when it is engaged, there is no power to the differential. The smaller fittings are standard 2-1/2 inch hydrant thread. The male fittings are discharges, and any 2-1/2" females are inlet ports. The big 6" is an inlet, and it will have to be capped in order for the pump to work. Your idea about gravity feeding is probably your best option for watering the driveway.
He can still spray the driveway in segments with the hose by walking the line. If he wanted a drive and spray he should have been looking at construction site potable water vehicles or an old agriculture sprayer
Geez, with that hill you could have the kid spraying whilst you rolled down. Or visa versa lol
Midship pump doesn't pump and roll
Hi Scott, congratulations on your new toy very cool 👍🏼, that shift pattern is like the early 911 Porsche boxes 901 5 Speed there tricky even in the cars , fire truck sounds healthy almost like Lenny love it 🏁 enjoy. 👋🏼thank you for Sharing.
Quite the stable of heavy equipment!
Be great for Parades and rides for the kids - gotta have a siren and a good truck horn plus an abundance of sweets.
In my experience, when the 3-4 shift pattern is like that it means 4th is direct and 5th is overdrive.