ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024
- Video game protagonists have a unique position in the realm of character writing, and in this video essay I attempt to deduce how one of these characters could be, in theory, good.
/ rycluse
Channel art: / bruno_desn
Script: rycluse.net/201...
Walt Williams Giant Bomb interview: www.giantbomb....
Music:
Fungal Wastes (Hollow Knight OST) - Kevin Larkin
Fallout: New Vegas Theme (New Vegas OST - Inon Zur
Normandy (Mass Effect OST) - Jack Wall and Sam Hulick
In Case of Trouble (Bastion OST) - Darren Korb
Truth Revealed (Spec Ops: The Line OST) - Elia Cmíral
Geoscape 1 (X-COM: UFO Defense OST Remastered) - Rohn Broomhall and Roman DeSimone
Glad people still remember and mention the impact of Spec Ops the Line. Interesting and useful stuff! Love your video essays!
i always liked the persona protagonists because it felt like they gave me enough freedom to shape them according to my own tastes while still having a vague personality of their own
Not the same "quantity" of the character's own personality in all persona games, but I agree with you
They always have a personality that you can guess through the choices available, or how they describe things. I distinctly recall a recurring song in the series being described as "annoying" in p3 and "cheery and quite chatchy" in p4 despite no changes.
Same, they’re honestly more to the middle than anything.
Share this video on the tweeters and bookfaces if you want to make me happy and give me the motivation to get out of bed and work on more videos. The gap to the next one should hopefully be shorter. I've got a couple ideas kicking around, but I'm probably going to go for the shorter one where I attack a decades old fundamental mechanic of RPGs next, so stay tuned.EDIT: It's actually probably not going to be that cause I got bored and started writing a completely different script. Trust me though, shit will be talked
Rycluse please make your next video before I forget who you are for the third time and get confused when you finally appear in my subscription feed again ❤️
You are alive! And with a nice video, Cheers! :)
With how the last few months have gone, I thought I was dead, too. Hopefully the gap will be a little shorter next time :)
No pressure on the next video, but the videos you have uploaded are of excellent quality, and the XCOM one covers my favourite game/franchise! (Which is criminally ignored xD)
But yeah, take your time and don't rush vids, since this type of videos is about research + quality ;)
NieR: Automata, and its papa, the original NieR, do a good job with having predefined player characters and using the game world to elaborate on them. There's not a lot in the way of direct choice, but the story of those games would never have worked as well in a linear, non-interactive medium like Film. Especially with the way both games use a repetition of previous segments of the game (the Ending B path of both games) to show you a new perspective on the events you participated in previously.
One shot has a very interesting way of handling this. I would recommend it if you haven't played it already and I would like a video talking about how you interact with the main character in it.
Don't just Google the game, PLAY IT. Really if you go in blind it's an experience worth having.
@@GlasseMan YES! That’s exactly what I did, and it was amazing(I got stuck near the end though and did have to Google *some* stuff for Solstice)
I heard hollow knight OST.. i liked the video already
TechExpert same
Haha I forgot I subscribed to you after your Undertale and Doki Doki video. After watching this video I remember why I'm still subscribed. You make great videos man, I appreciate the work you put into the script.
This is actually a funny video to watch considering the current wave of video games that have literally written main protagonists that are exceptionally nuanced to the point where they are the most nuanced in their respective ensemble, a la Arthur Morgan from Red Dead and Kratos from God of War. Great video though, subbed!
Happy to see more from you. So much promise in this channel
You're consistently excellent with your analysis. You remind me a LOT of mrBtongue, which is definitely a very high compliment. I really hope you can keep up your activity, I really am excited to see more from you!
CTKnoll That definitely is high praise. Thank you
@@Rycluse Well, it is a high praise indeed but you deserve it! Just found your channel and I am amazed by how much quality these videos have - both with its sharp writing and celver editing. It makes me wonder what other gems are out there in darkest youtube sections without proper recognition. But please keep up good work mate while I am doing my part with this subscription and like buttons.
And on the topic discussed in the video: I agree with observation that making a protagnist limits game design (and vice versa). My personal preference is this tiny space where I can play as almost entirely prewritten protagnist and choose how his personality (and my understanding of it) manifests itself through the choices and ingame mechanics.
I am talking about protagonists who have very specific place in the world, rich background and complex personality that I can uncover and empathise through the story. But at the same time, they allow for some control of what they do. This will be easier with example - Geralt from the Witcher series. As a book charatcter, he has a tone of preestablished traits, specific place in the world and a lots of history (like friends, romances, adventures and generally memories). But at the same time, you can influence on how YOU would behave while being in his shoes through plenty of interesting choices in main story and side quests. Having such character with preexisting place in the world seems to be a serious design limitation for a cRPG at the first glance but I would argue that it has more pros than cons.
While making a story around one specific protagnist, writers can really focus on nuances and tiny details of his personality. Like, the Witcher mutations. You can have serious discussion in the Witcher games about mutagens or Trial of Herbs and its influence on various witchers you meet. And, as Geralt you can also formulate your own opinion on the matter. All of these feels really polished and personal BECAUSE it is Geralt past and it defined him. He was thrown into it as a kid without a choice and had to adapt to consequences. It makes for interesting moral discussion.
And this is a very stark opposition to the design of ME series which may seem like also an example of 'preset protagnist with some amount of choice'. I would argue that Shepard is far closer towards 'blank protagnist' than Geralt. Because you cannot have the same conversation on biotics in Mass Effect that you could have on mutagens in The Witcher games. Why? Because not every Shperad have biotic powers. Another example is that romantic relationship while enjoyable feels less personal to me than these from The Witcher (especially The Witcher 3). Shepard does not set gender and orientation. This limits the amount of resources that writers can 'spend' writing each romance. And, I think that this also makes conversations and choices in ME series so shallow sometimes. Sure, you have impact on huge scale issues and it is awesome to decide the fate of entire race (like in the Krogan arc). But at the same time, you can be only a naive idealist or a rude as***le when you talk to the reporter. Both of these options feel shallow and artificial. The longer I play as the paragon, the longer the shallownes of Shepard naivness annoys me. And this annoyance just makes my immersion crumble which is a bummer because I really try to enjoy this game. And playing as a renegade is a bummer too. People want to play as 'the good guys' in a cRPGs and playing as a renegade feels like being a jerk all the toward everyone around you. This artificial choice between the two is what makes otherwise excellent ME series irritating for me and I blame this one desing/writing decision you talk in the video for that.
This comment is pretty long already so I won't start on CD Project design with V desing in Cyberpunk and how it affected their storytelling (which is also a great topic for discussion). But yeah, I just find Geralt in the Witcher series (or Harry form the Disco Elysium - another excellent example of what I am talking about) just superb for my personal taste. You may not like it but this is what peak performance looks like ;)
PS What happened to MrBtongue anyway? Man, come back, we are waiting like Gondorians for the return of the king.
PS2 I hope this comment is at least somehow understandable. It wasn't easy to articulate such abstract concepts in not foreign language for me.
I’m so happy you posted again!! I hope to see a lot more because I love your... three videos, that’s so weird to see lol
I loooove the way you format and edit, plus the way you script these just makes it so easy to understand yet not underestimating the viewers!!
Love your vids dude
I feel like Rycluse deserves more attention... A channel with videos like this and he only has about 6k subs? Madness!
Maybe things will start getting better now that I'm not talking into a 6 year old headset mic
Good to see a video from you again!
so happy I subscribed
I was JUST thinking that you hadn't updated in a while! Still, the effort put into editing shows.
I agree that Walker works as a protagonist with how the game challenges his relationship with the player;
one question that comes to mind though is how this challenge works in VR, since thats treated as inherently first person, relying on player immersion.
Would those characters be easier or harder to create?
I don't know, I'm barely a writer XP
Hope work goes well on the RPG mechanic attack!
Where does stuff like Stanley Parable or Disco Elysium go? Somewhere on the left/center of the range? Which is supposedly the perfect spot? So we already have some great characters.
Anyway. This was a nice topic to explore, and it's unfair to expect you to solve something this complex, but in the end you just said "look at innovation, innovation good, we need more".
Stanley Parable is kind of a weird case, but I'd say Disco Elysium is mostly, but not entirely player-defined. The entire point of that game is to rediscover or reconstruct your identity but there are bounds set by the writers to keep a certain number of character traits constant, namely being a walking talking human disaster. This is in contrast to, say, a Fallout protagonist who has a couple basic backstory traits but is otherwise an empty shell
Rycluse is best sectoid
I'd probably, rather than trying to define the "perfect gaming protagonist", consider it a series of tradeoffs. The more control the player has over defining the character, the less the designers do, and vice versa, and that not really something that can be gotten rid of.
That said, defining it as a spectrum, rather than a binary, is a pretty important consideration. And I think you also hit on something interesting with Spec Ops: The interactivity of the medium affects how player's engage with the narrative, even when they are not "in control" of it.
Cheers for the vid.
I like Sonic because he is fast.
I like how you tied in the Hollow (wink wink) Knight OST while talking about playable characters acting as shells
Malachi Casad That was actually completely unintentional, but I did choose a lot of the footage very carefully...
I tend to favor protagonists in the far right of the spectrum. I am too lazy to invent the protagonist’s personality myself, and won’t get invested in a blank slate character. That’s why I never bother to write backgrounds for my DnD characters, and never get attached to them. I’m here to play a game, not write a story. If the writer doesn’t provide the story/characterization, then I’ll just enjoy the game and not care about the story. The middle of the spectrum can work if the story is compelling enough to get me invested so that I care about the decisions and fill in the blanks. I think too many games are at the left end or in the middle but lazily made. I never play JRPGs, so I guess I’m missing out on almost all the protagonists that the writers actually put effort into.
My issue with most protagonists in games is when they try to be multiple things that you mentioned at once: for example, in many modern single player open world (jimmy mcCockthroat according to "YAHTZEE" Croshaw) games the character you play is set in stone, but is also really bland. And what I personally find for an interesting idea is when they develop in a dynamic way: For example, in a game like dishonored 2, the character emily, who at this point never has killed anybody, may react to killing people very differently from first level to the last one.
Pretty cool video.
love how Ludger ended up in the bundel of defined characters XD
You should look into Drakengard and Nier. Nier Replicant is a top recommendation. There's some excellent use of video games as a medium to tell a story.
So the perfect video game character is Mario from Super Mario and the everthings... He has all the traits you listed and has been built up over dacades... Everyone knows who Mario is what he does and why and Nintendo show it in his everything... Like the emoition I flelt after he got married in Odyssy after dacedes of being in a relationship that was shown in dozens of games is unlike any other single character in media. Not only that he has a rich backstory and story archs while bearly talking with a few excaptions... And it's mostly because of how he plays in the games which is how a Video game Protage should be rwitten...
Gameplay first what every your gameplay is the PC neeeds to match it perfectly which could be written however...
Which is also true of Doom Guy and to a lesser extacnt Master Chief. Which the best FPS Characters are like Mario or are seen in cutscene like Havoc in Command and Conquer Renegade or again Master Cheif.
To me Disco Elysium will always be the game with a perfect approach to its main character. Harrier aka Tequila Sunset Du Bois is an extremely well-defined character, with an extensive background and a clear personality up to the moment when the plot of the game takes place. And when it comes to choices, the player is given quite a bit agency as to how will this character progress and change over the course of the game, yet the options presented are all natural for the character at any given time and the progression is always linked to the character’s past. Harry in one playthrough might end up different from Harry in another playthrough, but it will still clearly be the well-known and questionably beloved Harry.
Hi, new subscriber here, (yes I came from the Armstrong video) I would like to point out, some good... and bad... protagonist in my favorite games scince childhood.
Kicking it off with Gears Of War-GoW3 Marcus and Dom have always had an almost father like presents to them. In the sense that a father might shelter a a child by not showing how tired or mad they are Marcus and Dom(for the most part) seem to shelter each other? Or the player? Or themselves?- from the harsh reality of the world and the fact that the human race is essentially going extinct. It's clear though that they are both still learning through the progression of each game. And in brief moments to grieve them must pull themselves together and soldiers on.
Borderlands 3: one of my favorite series of games ! ! Well... 3 was a let down... not just because of the games mechanics but because each new character introduced didnt seem to be much more than just a class... they didn't seem like characters. You could never get attached to these hollow shells with skills and abilities.
Edit: cut me some slack it's 530 am
Great video
I don't agree with your core concepts or examples, but I still respect your argument and execution
Video about great video-game protagonists and not a single mention of JC Denton? What a shame.
Gardevoir Sorry, there was a bomb found in the footage so he wasn't able to make it into the final cut
Rycluse He was a good man, what a rotten way to die.
Let’s get one thing straight before we go any further... I only clicked on this vid because Cpt Walker in the thumbnail.
This is really well written 👌
Also is that Hollow Knight music!?
Thank you and yes. It's been on my mind too much lately for me to NOT include it.
What about charachter development like the Orcs/Uruks in M-E SoW thats charachter devlopment based on player interaction so we just flip it to the Player not the enemy
Been awhile
Kept you waiting, huh?
It's christmas bois B)
Love your videos man! You make great videos!
Though *please* get a mic filter to avoid it keep peeking every time you say an S.
You will be pleased to learn that in the four years since this video was made I have indeed done so
@@Rycluse Haha oh yeah, my bad xP
I watched this cause i saw the medic one and wanted to see what else you made but didnt realize how long ago this one was.
Arthur Morgan is perfect for your criteria
Agent 47. do i even have to say anything? i will fight tooth and nail to say he is the best game protagonist like in general
Rycluse, U so smart but why u no make more analysis videos? r u in college or something?
BrokenGlass043 I am, actually. But don't worry, I'm always working in something new. It just takes time.
There is nothing as frustrating as a silent protagonist that neither has personality or any choice, devs usually resort to "actions speak louder" and not in a good way. those that handle silent protagonists well (or want to) give them a personality like Six from Little Nightmares: we know that she is cold hearted and ruthless based on what we see she does to survive. In Cod Ghosts the bond between Logan and his brother couldn't possibly be weaker but the game tries to trick you into thinking there are close with some photos and that ending.
7:48 Im going to call BS on that, because it didnt feel like 'oops, i really messed up now'.
It felt like 'oh, game wont let me do anything else, i guess i better get to pushing this button', then the game pulls a bait and switch on the player. The idea is great, the execution, is *shit.*
Yeah even if they they should have made it insaly hard to jump down and fight them with bullets or if you used the smoke perfectly as you knew who was who becuase repeat playthoughs... Would have honestly made the short cut writen into the story that mouch more tragic as he could have not killed civies he chosse to becusase it was easier... Like the majority of IRL war crimes. I never played past that point becuase of the lack of choice it is a good FPS but the writing pigen holes the player to do something avoidible and being someone the writer wants them to be.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough The amount of dissonance between him blaming himself for what he did, and the game FORCING me to do that is just insane
It took me out of the experience completely
why the fuck you dont have more subscribers?
Meowrail Cause people have to see my videos before they subscribe lol
shh
Certain Fallout games... Nice burn to bethesda
I think game devs need to give players more benefit of the doubt by putting an onus on them to role-play as a pre-defined character.