5 years later, this is one of my videos that continues to draw views and opinions :) I do wonder if miniature painters have a slightly different experience with these than scale modelers (vehicles etc) but I'm not sure. I will say that in the end, I continue to use Vallejo Surface Primer almost exclusively and never have a problem with it (I also never sand it). I'm sure hobbyists can't go very wrong with either choice they prefer!
A good test would be to use them on a plane and then use masking tape, I just ran into an issue where the masking tape peeled off the paint and primer (Vallejo)
I think the big issue is that most people had their first major issue (due to either water in the hose, improper cleaning, too high/low pressure, or improper turn off.) while using one or the other primer and just blamed the paint. Similarly, after encountering it they reset everything thus, likely fixing the other issue unintentionally. I have this problem all the time with my FDM printer as a thousand different things can cause one issue so I have to go through each individual potential problem before eventually finding the correct solution.
Scale Modelers use solvent based primers because Acrylic primers do not stick to smooth flat surfaces well. They stick to minis because of the detail, which is also why miniature painters have such varying results. Because Mini's have such a varying degree of detail. You can verify these claims on spoons. It will leave pinholes buffing metallics on cotton pants. I've spent more times prepping spoons than I have on model kits, washing, drying, 99.0% ISO wipe, dry, sanding, wash, dry. Only for the acrylic primers to leave pinholes exactly the same way they do on unprepped spoons :\... pinholes through paints that have a lacquer on top. Right to bare plastic. Like it was never 'primed'. Every single spoon I painted did this to varying degrees. A finger nail scratch? As if you accidentally caught a model while reaching for it? Right through the paint and primer. Acrylic Primers are not plastic primers. They are a cheap Gesso based solution that can be resold to hobbyist for a nice profit %. A true plastic primer bonds chemically to the surface. I understand why a lot of people are hesitant and looking for an alternative, but when it comes to plastic, Rustoleum or similar is the way to go. I've got parts primed with Rustoleum that have been kicked around on my shop floor for a year. No damage to the primer at all. I can't even buff badger on soft surface or it falls off...
In my experience vallejo primer is fine on plastics, is durable, and creates a very, very smooth finish for painting over. However, its one big problem that can be significant is that it just isn't sandable. It's far too rubbery, even when cured. Sanding it will cause it to crack and flake off in chunks. Depending on your modeling methods and needs - as well as possibly repainting a section of a model later - this could be an issue. Stynylrez, whatever its other properties, sands extremely well after it has fully cured. It can be buffed and feather sanded at edges. This does make redoing part of a model very easy and seamless. Essentially if you're never going to sand your plastic model after priming, Vallejo is perfectly fine. Just be warned about sanding.
I experienced the very same thing with Vallejo primer, but I don't do gsming figures. I do scale models. I've tried Mission Models primer as well. Tamiya was my go-to in the past, but I had to get awsy from lacquers and enamels. Stynylrez is my go-to now and I love it.
That's a fair point. I usually use Vallejo Primer. But you are correct in that it will flake when sanding. Of course you can overcome this with some fine grit sandpaper, but you are not incorrect. Anyone who has issues with clogging or it falling off has other issues though. It's not Vallejo.
@@christopherh4653 I just one of Bobby Waldren vids where he discussed this flaking issue. Two possible solutions. Let the primer dry rock hard for a minimum of 24 hours, or spray a couple of light coats of Future/Pledge over the spots that need extra attention.
It’s 2024 and I found this video because people are still saying the same things. Thanks for not being a fanboy about it and checking for the rest of us new to airbrushing.
This argument comes out of scale modeling world, where tons of modellers (including myself) had problems with vallejo primer peeling off after using masking tape. Problem (it's not really problem) with Vallejo is that it dry quick to touch but it need long time to cure properly. But if you let Vallejo primer to cure at least 48h (i think it's also factory recommendation) before you aplay next paint, there should be no worry that will peel of, wile on other hand there are no problems with Badger. So at the end it's all abouth what are you painthing, If i would only paint figures i would be comfortable using Vallejo but since i'm also making models it's not a brainiac for me to use Badger, it cures faster, when it's cured it's much stronger and makes way supirier bond to different matirials.
You make a good point. Rubbing applies a shear force on the primer. Peeling masking tape applies a tensile force (even if you do like you should, and peel it back onto itself). If you look at ACC, it's much stronger in tension than shear. We also have to look at not only how the primer adheres to the model, but how subsequent coats (color, decals, clear) also will adhere to the primer. Finally, with all the different paints out there, are any of them attacking these primers, compromising the adhesion?
I've had the same issue. A lot of mini painters are used to being able to paint a couple hours after priming by rattle can. For that reason I do prefer Badger.
I've been using Vallejo for almost two years now. On styrene and the soft "rubbery" plastics I've had nothing but problems with it adhering to the surface, except for maybe a couple times. I never used to wash the model parts prior to priming, now I have made it a habit. I've tried just about everything. Thinning it with my thinner, Vallejo thinner and both helped with the clogging issues but not with adherence. I've tried lightly scuffing the surface to no avail. I've found it works great on resin components/figures and the under side of bases and foam for action figure dioramas, but that's about it. I've tried all three colors purchased at different times from different vendors, but they all had the same effect. So I just recently picked up a bottle of Stynylrez and wow, what a difference. That stuff sticks to everything. I even shot it on some "old" styrene from the early 80's that I'm pretty sure has some mold release residue on it and it still stuck good. Like I said, I love Vallejo paint but, I will never use their surface primers ever again.
Not true. People share different views on certain products, so that other people can then make an educated decision based on the information they've received. It's not arguing it's learning...
Right, because they aren't meat riding a product and saying only positive things, they must just be toxic people that like drama.... Its interesting how you're not allowed to have a negative opinion about anything without being labeled a "hater" or "toxic" etc. Its almost like some people think only one form of modeling exists and people don't have different needs/requirements for the products they use on their projects. I build model cars and I NEED a sandable primer (not something that sands ok if you're really delicate and don't look at it wrong) without issues. Primer is a tool and shouldn't be a headache.
I experienced frequent clogging with Vallejo. I use a mini compressor with max 30psi and 0.5mm airbrush, thinning and higher pressure will definitely help but the rubbery texture is not sandable.
I've used both for model kits - not minis. My biggest beef against the Vallejo is that it is not sandable as was already commented. It does seem to have a slightly rubbery feel to it. The Stynylrez primer feathers beautifully when sanded - which makes a big deal for my applications.
What color did you use? I've recently started using an airbrush and even tho I have like few hours of expirience, black vallejo sprays like a charm, no issues what-so-ev-er. Grey regular and grey mecha color primers kinda suck - they don't really want to spray, but black works great, no issues.
I’ve used both. I do a lot of scratch-building with Evergreen styrene. I have always wet sanded 8 to 24 hrs after priming and the Vallejo rolled of under the 600 grit paper. Did not have that problem with Stynelrez.
Tried airbrushing vallejo primer on some gw minis. Dried for 3 entire days, 72hrs. The primer came off when applying a wash with a soft brush. Consecutive tests on other pieces proved that it flaked off after contact with water. Washed off with a brush in water. Maybe they forgot to put polyurethane in the bottle I bought. Note, this was high gloss black. Will try a matte one but I might just go back to rattle can primers if the problem persists.
I have used both of these as brush on primers, and the stynylrez seems tougher. I also prefer it's matte finish, the only thing I don't like is its seemingly potent smell. I got a sore throat and felt kind of off the night after using it on some hanomags, but I can't say for sure that was the cause. Just cause it's acrylic doesn't mean it's safe, urethane paints also tend to put off isocyanates but i'm not sure if these model primers do.
This has been my experience as well. Some colors of primer may not do well when applied with a brush, but I’ve never had any issues when using an airbrush.
I have used both primers on miniatures and resin model kits and both work well but Vallejo has issues. When I have primed with Vallejo black primer the paint has not rubbed off. What it has done is when using Tamyia masking tape on a project, once I was done and I pulled up the tape, the paint came up with it in certain spot. With Stynyrez I never had that issue. I still have some Vellejo primer and use it but avoid masking over it.
@@PyromancerRift I know. When it happen to me I was surprised, but I went online and other youtubers had the same issue. What I do like about Vallejo is how well it sprays with little clogging.
@@javiergarcell3075 Same exact thing happened to me the other night using black Vallejo primer, Tamyia masking tape striped the primer off, despite letting it dry for 24+ hours.
Thanks for this! I never got good results with Vallejo primers (my fault) and I was surprised they would release something like that given the quality of their other products. However I boosted the PSI as you suggested and it worked great!
I have had a great experience with my black and brown Vallejo primer. White and gray have been a bit problematic, especially the white. It comes out a bit grainy. I haven’t tried anything else.
My milage with Vallejo white is it goes on well at first, but after the 2nd or 3rd model, begins to tip dry super fast, and gum up in the pot risking bits breaking away and clogging the brush. Have some Badger wating, will see how it performs by comparison. Vallejo needed to be thinned a little, and that helped it go on, and with the tip dry a little but became a big issue later, with sputtering and chunks ending up on my models during their second coat. And this was only painting 8 models. I feel to do a proper test you should have painted a small batch of models rather then one each, to see how it performs on a longer session.
Thank you very much. Short, sweet and precise video. It answer many questions I had on primer, I have Stynylrez. Very beginner painter... and I definitively know now that I have to adjust my pressure and do some trials!
I just tried sanding an Airfix Severn Class Lifeboat hull which I sprayed with Vallejo primer 5 years ago (yes, years) and it immediately tore up under 800 grit wet n dry paper. The good news is the primer stripped off nicely with supermarket all-purpose cleaner. Vallejo's primer is great for coverage and a smooth finish but if you'll have to sand it, I'd advise using a different primer.
I use both primers myself and love them both. I have been using the Badger Stynlrez for much longer then the Vallejo. I have a few bottles that have never frozen of the Stynlrez and they are nearing six or seven years old and still shoot just fine. Good video and thanks for the info.
Only been using Duplicolor grey primer out of a spray can, using the airbrush mostly for base coats, metallics, varnishes and protective coats, usually keep the compressor at around 20 PSI.
I used to get spattering with vallejo white,.was advised to try stylerez. Never had a problem again. Years later still using stylerez however i wonder if it was down to my airbrush skills and i got better at the time i switched primers.
I've been using the Vallejo primer for quite some time, now, only hand brushing it on as opposed to airbrushing it, and after letting it dry overnight, it works fine for me. So around 30-40 psi pressure to airbrush and we're good to go, then, yes?
I also had trouble with my white stynylrez, the pigment had turned to gum at the bottom. The other two bottles that came with my three pack were fine. Grey one is so nice, if a bit dark.
My only other experience other than Vallejo airbrush primer is with rattle-can spray primers/paints, and I find that Vallejo's airbrush primer compared the spray primers has had SIGNIFICANTLY easier time peeling and chipping, and much worse adhesion to the surface, but provided much better detail preservation and uniform coating thanks to the airbrush application... I want to see what Stynylrez is like in comparison to see what the fuss is about, but I imagine neither will be as good as rattle-can stuff :)
This is true, just cause the rattle can stuff has solvents which bind the paint to the plastic. The airbrush primer is just water based polyurethane. Airbrush primer needs days to cure from my experience, 3 days minimum. Even then if you drop the figure or try to scrape it with your nail, anything where some force is applied then it will scrape off. I brush on primer to my models only cause I can no longer stand the fumes from rattle cans, after doing some research and myself feeling off after a spray session I decided to swear off em for good. Xylene is one of the major offenders I have found
Could anyone tell me If the Vallejo is good with masking tape? I've been having a very difficult time finding paint/tape that won't result in peeled primer/paint
Now I see this video/comments. I have been trying to use the valejo on soft plastic models (hero quest) and have had a nightmare of peeling and reactivation even in some cases. I just switched to badger this weekend and it's working flawlessly. soooo much better and the paint sticks to it too
So I used chipping medium and it managed to humidify all paint layers below reaching to the primer and making the whole thing flake , not just the latest coat.. 😖
I use both products and have had no issues with either. If I have to rush a job after priming I may use a hairdryer to speed drying, and I always use a low tack masking tape a low tack masking tape.
My problem with Vallejo primer isn't that it doesn't adhere well enough, but that it doesn't sand very well. It has a tendency to tear, and the edges of the tearing are difficult to remove or hide. I don't have this problem with Stynylrez.
I use both on model airplanes, some very light grey Vallejo and a little draker grey UMP (Syynylrez). Works great. Vallejo takes a little longer to be able to sand it seems, but I leave both for a week if I need to really sand it heavy. (wings)
Just wondering, I've used the Grey Vallejo Surface Primer on a plastic model that was completely cleaned before. I am comparing it with citadel rattle can primer and found that the citadel primer is a lot more scratch resistant than vallejo. Am I applying this wrong or are my expectations off? I am painting models playing tabletop and I am afraid the color might come off with Vallejo primer. Cheers!
Leeroy Jenkins Vallejo surface primer should work really well on plastic models, but I do find that spray can primes are the most resistant to scratches.
Am a Vallejo user as well and don't understand the issues people have. But I have been using it for years. Once you work it out it is easy. Also I still have some that I brought about 8 years ago and it works fine. Just make sure to shake it well before use. Just don't understand the hate it gets.
Vallejo mix 1:1 with Val airbrush thinner 25-30 Psi. I use a .35 needle. Not getting tip dry priming 5-10 models at a time. Smoothest prime I've ever had . great coverage. Would never go back to shaker can going on 10x too thick removing all fine detail.
Coming from a background of painting real world autos, the problem with paint adhesion is a surface prep problem. If you wash and soak your models to remove mold release compounds you should have no problem with adhesion. I have been using Vallejo primers for many years with no problems. As with any airbrush painting you use a good airbrush(.3mm max), proper pressure(usually @20psi) and make several passes with a flash time in between coats. Always allow at least 24 hours of cure time for any primer. I have always thinned Vallejo primers to the same milk-like consistency as when using regular paints and have never sprayed any Vallejo paint including Model Air without some amount of thinner. Thick paint hides details and is a recipe for disaster. If you want to see good airbrush technique view some vids by Les Bursley.
The worst I can say about vallejo primer is that you shouldn't use masking tape on it unless it's 100% (24hours+) cured. Other than that, it's just about perfect. If the primer sputters/splashes, it's a problem with the airbrush most likely, rather than the actual paint.
I've used both and I can't get either to work well, Vallejo peeled, Stynylrez flaked off. I recently tried AK interactive primer. It went on lovely, I thought I'd found my go to primer... it literally rubs off with my finger. I'm very areful in preparing my miniatures, I wash them with washing up liquid, a good rinse then put it in an ultrasonic cleaner to ensure the washing up liquid is out of the creases etc. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Today I got some Pro-Acryl primer, I'm hoping this one just works because if not I'll have to go back to spray can and I hate those. I've got about £140 worth of primer in my cupboard, it's such a pain in the arse!
I use stynlrez and ump here in the uk although I think it is the same stuff. I love it and have had no problems. Never used the vallejo so can’t comment but the problems I have read about vallejo primer is it peels but the main thing I read about it is it comes off when masking tape is removed. Maybe you could try a video on removing masking tape and then see what happens. Thanks for sharing this video.
While Vallejo primer may work fine in this situation where you're applying it to figures, it fails badly in situations where masking and/or sanding is required.
Work for years with vallejo black primer ,airbrushing on resin kit,metal,plastic..perfect finish ,dry very fast,zero orange peeling,smooth surface.. Important to clean the surface before spraying the primer..👍
A great comparison and you made a very good point regarding shelf life . But I have always had issues with vallejo primer lifting when masking but never had the problem with Stynylrez .
The main thing I like about Vallejo primer (the black one anyway) is that it works equally well with a brush if I need to touch up some things or in the event I can't use my airbrush. Does the Stynylrez primer work with a brush (not that it's an idea way to use it, but can it be done) as well? Plus the Vallejo primer gives you more for just a little bit more. Stynylrez is 120ml and Vallejo is 200ml for around $5 more depending on where you get it.
I have both but I rate the Badger paint much higher, you can just whack it on thick as anything and it dries to the smoothest finish going, showing all detail.
@@apoclypse the waterborne polymer is completely different to the one shot, it been out a lot longer. If you don’t shake it for at least 5 minutes or put down very thin layers it won’t work and it’s very hard to get it to look even. One Shot Primer is excellent
Seeing your rubbing on the minis post brushing has me wondering if I got a lemon of a bottle. I use mine just as you did, straight out of the bottle. The Vallejo comes out the brush great, no issues, nothing. Even DAYS after, just the lightest scratch with a fingernail, let alone a hefty rubbing will bring the primer right up. I shake the heck out of my bottles too, and I’m not sure what was wrong. Going to try Stynylrez shortly, hoping my bottle of that works better.
Weird - yeah mine sticks on so hard it’s actually very difficult to remove. Like when I try to strip minis, it does NOT want to come off. Now, that said I’m taking about HIPS plastic minis. Metal minis it’s considerably easier to remove.
I may have had a bad bottle of the black primer but it is almost like it's partially dried in the bottle and has lots of mini chunks in the paint which block my airbrush within minutes of using it which is rather annoying. The white and grey haven't been anywhere near as bad but the grey does clog a little more than regular paint.
I like both (I also use home improvement store spray cans). I am under the impression the vallejo is more readily available and is more common. I think that availability contributes to the online reputation in a few ways (at least with tabletop crowd). I would guess that vallejo is more often a first used primer by less experienced painters. More bad experiences with the whole AB priming process will therefore occur with vallejo, even if that is not the reason for difficulty. I often see people who have experience seeking out the badger product (and by have both more experience and realistic expectations). I think the scarcity also contributes to the reputation; it takes a little more effort to get, more exclusive, and you really want it to be great. I don't consider myself a great artist and use many brands and colors of paint. Some of the people I consider amazing artists restrict themselves to a very small selection of tools (i.e. 1 kind of primer, 1 "blue", etc) and that makes sense to me for someone who has put in the time to be consistent and sensitive to slight differences.
That's an interesting theory and I think it's very likely that it contributes to the bad reputation. Some complaints don't fit in with that theory though, like people saying it used to be good and then they got a new bottle and it sucked.
As for freezing. I tried a bottle of Army Painter primer. Was horrible. Tried running it through a filter and most of the pigment was chunky and gummy. At this point mot people would have complained the AP is junk primer. HOWEVER. I have seen the aftermath of acrylic paints being frozen, and that was exactly what the AP looked like. The store I'd bought if rom had received it right after a polar freeze had moved through while it was en route. SO in this case, it looks like it froze in shipping. Keep this in mind if you are a on line buyer of paint. DO NOT order it if the route it travels will have cold temps, especially below zero, while it's being shipped.
hi ! I do some sculptures from plastic and epoxy and need a clear top coat that is eassy to buff and as much shine as possible what you suggest . I have aircompressor and airbrushes -sprayguns .
You perfectly described the situation I have been in with white stynylrez. I keep asking myself if I just got a bad batch, but the possibility of it having been frozen before i got it makes perfect sense. Time to filter it....
I have had a few issues with the Vallejo lately, the black and the grey on metal miniatures. The black will sometimes not stick to the metal (separating shortly after contact - and I have washed the models with both joy and alcohol to no improvement) or will wipe off really easily, even while painting unless I preheat the model with a hair dryer. I believe the bottle is bad though, as is separates in the bottle with some sort of beige liquid settling to the bottom, so I added mixing balls and shake the crap out of it before hand. The grey just gets heavy and won't spray a fine mist, even with flow improver and or thinner. So I am going to try the badger. I am pretty sure the stuff I have are bad bottles, but I've heard good things about the badger, so I will give it a try.
You stated what I consider to be facts. I didn't think you were pretentious. I think people-such as myself-tend to rush into something without the proper study. I usually learn by screwing up, but I found by reseaching what thinners, flow improvers and so on have given people the best results, I get good results, too. After I learned about these additives, what they do and the proper proportions, my airbrushing improved and my frustration level bottomed out. Learn about your tools, what they do and what they cannot do and the results are generally very satisfactory. Good information, sir. Cheers! Cork
I'm new to certain aspects of this hobby but not entirely. My recent trip over the internet while doing some research tells me that Vallejo products seem to need a little extra shakig and mixing. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of user error here. As I'm replacing my old Apple barrel paints with better things, I invested $5 in some glass beads to use as agitators. I expect that will help me get ahead of some of these reddit complaints. An upside of getting into this now is that Vallejo is refreshed much of their hobby product line -- whether that is some of the formulas or simply the labeling -- it's easy for me to be sure that I'm getting product that has not been sitting in a sun-bleached paint rack for 8 years at a game shop.
I heard white primer from Vallejo is tragic, but that's just what I heard - when I was testing my grey primer I've let it dry 24 hours and then tried scratching it - with my thumb, with my nail and I really (and I mean REALLY) had to try for it to come off, and even then it only would chip a bit, not peel - I did have some problem with peeling, but I suspect that was either mould release or oils from my fingers, because after I started washing my sprues before priming the problem is gone. I heard good thing about stynylrez is that it can be sanded (unlike vallejo) but as a miniature painter I dont need to sand my minis anyway, so...
I have been trying to use Vallejo gloss black primer with terrible results, but was doing it right over a painted/varnished model so presumably that’s not something I should be doing!?
Sorry Guys, I build 1/48th and 1/32nd aircraft. So I have fairly large flat area that at times need sanding.I love Vallejo model air pant BUT their primer does not sand well,at allI have no probs sprayingIt might be ok for figures etc
I just did the same comparison. Both of these primers are my goto air brush primers. the only time the Vallejo ever ruined off on me was because I did not completely wash my model. I thought I had, it was a fluke that I missed a piece of it. Vallejo sprays out best at about 35 PSI as recommended. never clogged in my cheapo airbrush. I got some soldering trying each at a lower pressure. I have found that badger feels a bit harder to the touch when cured. Each one of them brushes on equally well with little to no obcuring of detail. This was a good video. I am still a fan and was not offended. lol.
I know this is an old video, but have you tried the Monument Hobbies primer? I've had huge issues with it rubbing off of my minis after priming (GW plastic) and when I emailed the company they said it could do that, yeah, but after you get paint on it then it's solid. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but my other other experience is GW rattlecan that I have never had a problem with rubbing off.
I’ve used both, do the same test with metal model the Vallejo will come off more than stynelrez but they both will, don’t mind Vallejo at all though, but 32oz of stynelrez for 50.00 on Amazon when Vallejo cost 12-15 for 200ml unless there is a bigger than 200ml ???
The problem with Valejo Primer is usually on larger kits. Even if you wash your kits and I do, Vallejo doesn't sand well. Also if you are working on a kit that you are going to mask over for paint Vallejo is bad about pulling off with the tape. I switched to Stynylrez problem solved.
I've had no end to problems with Vallejo primer on pewter (Battletech and Reaper). I wash my minis in clean soapy water in a ultrasonic cleaner. Primer is un-thinned. Strait out of the bottle into the airbrush. While curing, with in 2-3 hours, it started to peel off. So I cleaned them again, stripped it, re-assembled, and re-primed, stripped, and re-primed. Less peeling the second time, but it cam off as soon as I handled them. Maybe a bad batch, but In my experience, Vallejo primer is dog shit when it comes to metal minis. Thing is, it worked fine on reaper plastic minis.
Blandco just that you can work with it faster if you don’t want to wait 12 hours. If the paint had rubbed off after 5 mins then I’d see the point. But it’s ready to paint over pretty much right away.
I always wear a respirator mask (type with a replaceable fabric and charcoal filter) regardless of what paint I am spraying or airbrushing, inhaling paint particulates is dangerous. A good filter mask and replacing the filters regularly is a little expensive, but consider the value of your lungs or the cost of cancer treatment!
Vallejo primer actually has bigger particle I believe. off all the primer I used, Vallejo grey primer clogs so many times in my life......in the end, I just dont buy Vallejo grey anymore. the black one actually works pretty good and I rarely clog on them.
I've been using the Vallejo surface primer for years and I love it. Never had any problems and never had a dud bottle. And it works just as well with a brush as an airbrush. But I'm not religious so I will buy some Stynylrez too and love that equally.
The problem with Stynylrez is if its been frozen at all before it gets to you or after it gets to you, it will clump up. And then it'll clog airbrushes no matter how big the needle and nozzle are. I made the mistake of ordering the stuff during the winter months and it must have shipped from the North on the way to me in Texas, because it was junk by the time it got to me. Massive dry tip, massive clogs, even when I tried to strain it and thin it. I would love to have access to a good acrylic primer....But in the meantime, I use Mr. Surfacer 1500 mixed 50/50 with lacquer thinner. It works fantastically, the best airbrush primer I've used to date. I make scale models in 1/32 or 1/35 scale, so I am putting down a lot of it. You just need to wear a respirator when you spray it, you need a spray booth or some kind of ventilation system, and you need harsher cleaners to get it out of your airbrush.
I've literally never had a problem with Vallejo primer. You need to let them dry properly, but that's fine. As a cheap and effective acrylic primer it's brilliant. Now, that comes with the caveat that the gloss black primer absolutely *is* a pain in the ass to shoot, or at least by my experience.
Not sure what my problem is. I use Vallejo model air and I love their airbrush paints. I use their grey surface primer and I do get some clogging over time. Maybe I should adjust my psi or maybe my priming sessions are a lot longer than typical. (I paint gundams so I am painting about 50 pieces a sitting.) It could also be the fact that its grey, because i have seen some complaints based on color. Or maybe it is simply a shit bottle although the finish is decent when it works. I still use it and it hasn't been so terrible that I have replaced it yet.
I use vallejo and it's been 2 years. Vallejo black primers are bad, not because it's bad quality, but because it's too thick even when used with thinner. The paint dry and clog the air brush very fast. It is very possible that my compressor is not strong enough for polyurethane paints. But my setup spits nicely toothpaste type army painter paints with a bit of thinner. I have used a vallejo white primer and it was perfect, i suspect the pigments in the black primer are bigger.
One thing I noticed is that the vallejo looks wet when you sprayed it and mine never looks that way. Perhaps that's what we're doing wrong. My primer looks dry when it hits the model. Maybe with a heavier/wetter coats it might adhere better. Gonna go a bit heavier on my next prime to see what's up.
If it's dry looking on the model try shortening the distance between the two. Spraying in higher temperatures can lead to this also. Larger distances & high ambient temperature can dry the paint out before it hits the model.
Hi pal, most black primers are really great. Even water-thinned liquitex gesso. White is a problematic primer. I have both brands here. And stynylrez seems to separate with time. I had issues with frozen ones, but sometimes bottles get unusable after sitting in the corner for too long, no probs with vallejo. after some shaking it was ready to go.
Yea i absolutely love the black vallejo primer but the white one i have nothing but issues with it. It either splatters or is just toooo thin. I have to do at least 3+ coats of it 😩😩😩
If you work with plastic models where you have to sand dow parts after priming Vallejo is just harder to work with compared to Stynylrez. You can pretty much spray the Badger stuff like a spray can and it's dry and ready in 15 minutes while Vallejo recommends you let their's cure for 48 hours. With Badger I can prime, look at the model fix or sand down any issue and re-prime while Vallejo is still curing. You can't sand down or use tape on Vallejo without letting it cure. If all you are doing is priming minis, then pretty much any primer will work for that.
my only issue is even after allowing to dry they both scratch off while gw citadel primer doesn't scratch off with my fingernails (I've had problem with both airbrush primers coming off when handling the model to paint) they're both still really decent primers though I might just not be shaking them enouhg possibly need steel ball bearings
I had the Vallejo primer legit peel from just my fingertips. (this is me buying 3 different bottles) My first bottle ever Vallejo primer was amazing but afterwards , no success. Spray can primers have been the best for me so far.
I use both regularly and like both. I think people are using Flow Improver out of habit with Vallejo - and that needs considerably longer to cure because the additive.
FYI to all - Flow improver will also make it act more like a wash as well. Use a Primer thinner or as seen here in this vid, don’t really need to thin it at all?!!
In my opinion, I work with Vallejo Surface Primer as well. I feel that it is great for small models such as what I saw in your video. That being said I am a huge fan of building for example things such as a Battleships 1/350 in scale and with such large surface (Hull of the ship) if there were any sanding required the Vallejo does seem to peel which makes life very difficult. It is hard to explain, but I would assume if you were to sand a larger surface that using Vallejo Primer you may experience problems. As for Masking tape I've never had problems with the paint peeling etc. Only problem I have is with sanding, I would not recommend Vallejo if you KNOW for a fact that sanding will be a requirement for your model kit. I would very much suggest surface primer for smaller things as it does save money over time vs buying your traditional Spray canister.
I would say I do love using Vallejo regardless but I'm selective on what I use it for! All small and fine things ive always used Vallejo. Large surface I currently still prefer using the typically "The Army Painter" brand especially if I am required to do some sanding work! I hope this can help some people out? but I don't disagree with you that Vallejo works fine!
The culmination of comments is about %90 in agreement of my opinion. Small figurines? Perfect. Great product. It seems your only spraying for a minute or so. Go to a 1:25 model car or truck. Then get back to me. Tape it off for fine lines within 5min or 24hrs. Let us know how that goes. Vallejo just cannot stand up to it. You cannot sand Vallejo. Both you can do with stynylrez with ease and zero concern. The Vallejo sprays better imo. The stynylrez will tip dry twice as fast and my airbrush requires a complete breakdown and cleaning after stynylrez use. But I also think that's why it's adhesion and overall hardness and durability is far superior to Vallejo. The better and faster it adheres..... The more issues your going to have with tip dry and spraying. Nature of the beast. I'm a 30 year painter. You should never thin your primer. The only way I could get Vallejo to spray without spatter is to thin it substantially. Please do another demo on large scale using masking. I'd be interested to watch a start to finish coat by coat of the Vallejo unthinned. I REALLY want to know how to do it without thinning. Be able to sand it and tape it without issues. Then do stynylrez with the same process's. I think you'll change your opinion rather quickly. They both have their place. They both are good products for that particular place. But not in the same place.
Haven't tried the Vallejo primer yet but I've seen a lot of reviews really bashing it? I really like the Stynylrez but It seems to be a real bitch to clean out of my airbrush. I ended up using lacquer thinner but it's still a chore.
vallejo recommend 15 to 20 lb pressure but no nozzle size indicated, i think if i was using on a pewter based miniature i would leave over night. stynylrez recommend a nozzle size of 4 upwards.
My Vallejo Black primer spits and clogs both my airbrushes and it's the only paint I have that does so. Worked perfectly fine when I first got it. I guess it's just gone bad.
I'll say this, I've been using black vallejo primer pretty much only and nust recently started having issues with with it keep clogging after a few mins and just finished priming some infinity miniatures and had to thin it to get it to not clog. I think it with Vallejo airbrush thinner and havent gave me any issues either Oh and I had been having the same issue with the bottle I've had and just literally received a new one and same issue
5 years later, this is one of my videos that continues to draw views and opinions :) I do wonder if miniature painters have a slightly different experience with these than scale modelers (vehicles etc) but I'm not sure. I will say that in the end, I continue to use Vallejo Surface Primer almost exclusively and never have a problem with it (I also never sand it). I'm sure hobbyists can't go very wrong with either choice they prefer!
A good test would be to use them on a plane and then use masking tape, I just ran into an issue where the masking tape peeled off the paint and primer (Vallejo)
I think the big issue is that most people had their first major issue (due to either water in the hose, improper cleaning, too high/low pressure, or improper turn off.) while using one or the other primer and just blamed the paint. Similarly, after encountering it they reset everything thus, likely fixing the other issue unintentionally. I have this problem all the time with my FDM printer as a thousand different things can cause one issue so I have to go through each individual potential problem before eventually finding the correct solution.
Scale Modelers use solvent based primers because Acrylic primers do not stick to smooth flat surfaces well. They stick to minis because of the detail, which is also why miniature painters have such varying results. Because Mini's have such a varying degree of detail.
You can verify these claims on spoons. It will leave pinholes buffing metallics on cotton pants. I've spent more times prepping spoons than I have on model kits, washing, drying, 99.0% ISO wipe, dry, sanding, wash, dry. Only for the acrylic primers to leave pinholes exactly the same way they do on unprepped spoons :\... pinholes through paints that have a lacquer on top. Right to bare plastic. Like it was never 'primed'. Every single spoon I painted did this to varying degrees. A finger nail scratch? As if you accidentally caught a model while reaching for it? Right through the paint and primer.
Acrylic Primers are not plastic primers. They are a cheap Gesso based solution that can be resold to hobbyist for a nice profit %. A true plastic primer bonds chemically to the surface. I understand why a lot of people are hesitant and looking for an alternative, but when it comes to plastic, Rustoleum or similar is the way to go.
I've got parts primed with Rustoleum that have been kicked around on my shop floor for a year. No damage to the primer at all. I can't even buff badger on soft surface or it falls off...
In my experience vallejo primer is fine on plastics, is durable, and creates a very, very smooth finish for painting over. However, its one big problem that can be significant is that it just isn't sandable. It's far too rubbery, even when cured. Sanding it will cause it to crack and flake off in chunks. Depending on your modeling methods and needs - as well as possibly repainting a section of a model later - this could be an issue.
Stynylrez, whatever its other properties, sands extremely well after it has fully cured. It can be buffed and feather sanded at edges. This does make redoing part of a model very easy and seamless.
Essentially if you're never going to sand your plastic model after priming, Vallejo is perfectly fine. Just be warned about sanding.
I experienced the very same thing with Vallejo primer, but I don't do gsming figures. I do scale models. I've tried Mission Models primer as well. Tamiya was my go-to in the past, but I had to get awsy from lacquers and enamels. Stynylrez is my go-to now and I love it.
That's a fair point. I usually use Vallejo Primer. But you are correct in that it will flake when sanding. Of course you can overcome this with some fine grit sandpaper, but you are not incorrect. Anyone who has issues with clogging or it falling off has other issues though. It's not Vallejo.
@@christopherh4653 I just one of Bobby Waldren vids where he discussed this flaking issue. Two possible solutions. Let the primer dry rock hard for a minimum of 24 hours, or spray a couple of light coats of Future/Pledge over the spots that need extra attention.
Thanks for the info, based on this I just got some Stynylrez.
I just sanded some vallejo gloss black primer it was totally fine, there was no flaking or whatever. It sanded perfectly.
It’s 2024 and I found this video because people are still saying the same things. Thanks for not being a fanboy about it and checking for the rest of us new to airbrushing.
Cool :) in the end I largely have stuck with Vallejo Surface Primer in various colors.
My experience with Vallejo primer is it's glass smooth as long as you run it at a higher psi than you would for paints. I use about 25-26 psi.
This argument comes out of scale modeling world, where tons of modellers (including myself) had problems with vallejo primer peeling off after using masking tape. Problem (it's not really problem) with Vallejo is that it dry quick to touch but it need long time to cure properly. But if you let Vallejo primer to cure at least 48h (i think it's also factory recommendation) before you aplay next paint, there should be no worry that will peel of, wile on other hand there are no problems with Badger. So at the end it's all abouth what are you painthing, If i would only paint figures i would be comfortable using Vallejo but since i'm also making models it's not a brainiac for me to use Badger, it cures faster, when it's cured it's much stronger and makes way supirier bond to different matirials.
You make a good point. Rubbing applies a shear force on the primer. Peeling masking tape applies a tensile force (even if you do like you should, and peel it back onto itself). If you look at ACC, it's much stronger in tension than shear. We also have to look at not only how the primer adheres to the model, but how subsequent coats (color, decals, clear) also will adhere to the primer. Finally, with all the different paints out there, are any of them attacking these primers, compromising the adhesion?
I've had the same issue. A lot of mini painters are used to being able to paint a couple hours after priming by rattle can. For that reason I do prefer Badger.
I've been using Vallejo for almost two years now. On styrene and the soft "rubbery" plastics I've had nothing but problems with it adhering to the surface, except for maybe a couple times. I never used to wash the model parts prior to priming, now I have made it a habit. I've tried just about everything. Thinning it with my thinner, Vallejo thinner and both helped with the clogging issues but not with adherence. I've tried lightly scuffing the surface to no avail. I've found it works great on resin components/figures and the under side of bases and foam for action figure dioramas, but that's about it. I've tried all three colors purchased at different times from different vendors, but they all had the same effect.
So I just recently picked up a bottle of Stynylrez and wow, what a difference. That stuff sticks to everything. I even shot it on some "old" styrene from the early 80's that I'm pretty sure has some mold release residue on it and it still stuck good. Like I said, I love Vallejo paint but, I will never use their surface primers ever again.
Did you try another bottle of Vallejo primer? They have occasional dud bottle, plus if it freezes in transport it can go bad.
I've used both with no problems. People will argue just to argue.
Especially on the internets.
NO! People DON'T argue just to argue!!
Not true. People share different views on certain products, so that other people can then make an educated decision based on the information they've received. It's not arguing it's learning...
Haters gotta hate. I hate that.
Right, because they aren't meat riding a product and saying only positive things, they must just be toxic people that like drama....
Its interesting how you're not allowed to have a negative opinion about anything without being labeled a "hater" or "toxic" etc.
Its almost like some people think only one form of modeling exists and people don't have different needs/requirements for the products they use on their projects. I build model cars and I NEED a sandable primer (not something that sands ok if you're really delicate and don't look at it wrong) without issues. Primer is a tool and shouldn't be a headache.
I experienced frequent clogging with Vallejo. I use a mini compressor with max 30psi and 0.5mm airbrush, thinning and higher pressure will definitely help but the rubbery texture is not sandable.
Same. I'm going to get stynalres in hope it doesn't clog as much.
I've used both for model kits - not minis. My biggest beef against the Vallejo is that it is not sandable as was already commented. It does seem to have a slightly rubbery feel to it. The Stynylrez primer feathers beautifully when sanded - which makes a big deal for my applications.
What color did you use? I've recently started using an airbrush and even tho I have like few hours of expirience, black vallejo sprays like a charm, no issues what-so-ev-er. Grey regular and grey mecha color primers kinda suck - they don't really want to spray, but black works great, no issues.
I’ve just started airbrushing and love the way Vallejo primer works and I’ve primed over 50 models in last few days
I will be sticking to Vallejo
I’ve used both. I do a lot of scratch-building with Evergreen styrene. I have always wet sanded 8 to 24 hrs after priming and the Vallejo rolled of under the 600 grit paper. Did not have that problem with Stynelrez.
Great video. Vallejo primer is poly, so it hardens to a “eggshell” finish, which means it cannot be sanded, it’s designed that way.
Tried airbrushing vallejo primer on some gw minis. Dried for 3 entire days, 72hrs. The primer came off when applying a wash with a soft brush. Consecutive tests on other pieces proved that it flaked off after contact with water. Washed off with a brush in water. Maybe they forgot to put polyurethane in the bottle I bought. Note, this was high gloss black. Will try a matte one but I might just go back to rattle can primers if the problem persists.
I have used both of these as brush on primers, and the stynylrez seems tougher. I also prefer it's matte finish, the only thing I don't like is its seemingly potent smell. I got a sore throat and felt kind of off the night after using it on some hanomags, but I can't say for sure that was the cause. Just cause it's acrylic doesn't mean it's safe, urethane paints also tend to put off isocyanates but i'm not sure if these model primers do.
Thank you for this - simple and concise without a ton of filler or un-needed content. I was already Subscribed but I dropped a Like - keep it up!
This has been my experience as well. Some colors of primer may not do well when applied with a brush, but I’ve never had any issues when using an airbrush.
Thanks much for the demonstration. I'm just starting to get into airbrushing for minis, so this was really helpful for me to watch
I have used both primers on miniatures and resin model kits and both work well but Vallejo has issues. When I have primed with Vallejo black primer the paint has not rubbed off. What it has done is when using Tamyia masking tape on a project, once I was done and I pulled up the tape, the paint came up with it in certain spot. With Stynyrez I never had that issue. I still have some Vellejo primer and use it but avoid masking over it.
Strange. Tamiya masking tape's adhesive is very very light.
@@PyromancerRift I know. When it happen to me I was surprised, but I went online and other youtubers had the same issue. What I do like about Vallejo is how well it sprays with little clogging.
@@javiergarcell3075 Same exact thing happened to me the other night using black Vallejo primer, Tamyia masking tape striped the primer off, despite letting it dry for 24+ hours.
Thanks for this! I never got good results with Vallejo primers (my fault) and I was surprised they would release something like that given the quality of their other products. However I boosted the PSI as you suggested and it worked great!
What psi and what needle? Cuz I am getting some sputters and textures
I have had a great experience with my black and brown Vallejo primer. White and gray have been a bit problematic, especially the white. It comes out a bit grainy. I haven’t tried anything else.
Same thing mate vallejo black primer is awesome. But when it comes to grey and white i would use evo surfacer or mr surfacer.
@@andrewchan1837 Same here. Black is not bad but when you pick any other color, it sucks...
My milage with Vallejo white is it goes on well at first, but after the 2nd or 3rd model, begins to tip dry super fast, and gum up in the pot risking bits breaking away and clogging the brush.
Have some Badger wating, will see how it performs by comparison.
Vallejo needed to be thinned a little, and that helped it go on, and with the tip dry a little but became a big issue later, with sputtering and chunks ending up on my models during their second coat.
And this was only painting 8 models.
I feel to do a proper test you should have painted a small batch of models rather then one each, to see how it performs on a longer session.
Spot... On!
Thank you very much. Short, sweet and precise video. It answer many questions I had on primer, I have Stynylrez. Very beginner painter... and I definitively know now that I have to adjust my pressure and do some trials!
Vallejo Surface primer is excellent a couple of drops of air flow improver into the primer cup and airbrush away
I just tried sanding an Airfix Severn Class Lifeboat hull which I sprayed with Vallejo primer 5 years ago (yes, years) and it immediately tore up under 800 grit wet n dry paper.
The good news is the primer stripped off nicely with supermarket all-purpose cleaner.
Vallejo's primer is great for coverage and a smooth finish but if you'll have to sand it, I'd advise using a different primer.
I use both primers myself and love them both. I have been using the Badger Stynlrez for much longer then the Vallejo. I have a few bottles that have never frozen of the Stynlrez and they are nearing six or seven years old and still shoot just fine. Good video and thanks for the info.
Only been using Duplicolor grey primer out of a spray can, using the airbrush mostly for base coats, metallics, varnishes and protective coats, usually keep the compressor at around 20 PSI.
I used to get spattering with vallejo white,.was advised to try stylerez. Never had a problem again. Years later still using stylerez however i wonder if it was down to my airbrush skills and i got better at the time i switched primers.
I've been using the Vallejo primer for quite some time, now, only hand brushing it on as opposed to airbrushing it, and after letting it dry overnight, it works fine for me. So around 30-40 psi pressure to airbrush and we're good to go, then, yes?
I also had trouble with my white stynylrez, the pigment had turned to gum at the bottom. The other two bottles that came with my three pack were fine. Grey one is so nice, if a bit dark.
My only other experience other than Vallejo airbrush primer is with rattle-can spray primers/paints, and I find that Vallejo's airbrush primer compared the spray primers has had SIGNIFICANTLY easier time peeling and chipping, and much worse adhesion to the surface, but provided much better detail preservation and uniform coating thanks to the airbrush application... I want to see what Stynylrez is like in comparison to see what the fuss is about, but I imagine neither will be as good as rattle-can stuff :)
This is true, just cause the rattle can stuff has solvents which bind the paint to the plastic. The airbrush primer is just water based polyurethane. Airbrush primer needs days to cure from my experience, 3 days minimum. Even then if you drop the figure or try to scrape it with your nail, anything where some force is applied then it will scrape off. I brush on primer to my models only cause I can no longer stand the fumes from rattle cans, after doing some research and myself feeling off after a spray session I decided to swear off em for good. Xylene is one of the major offenders I have found
Could anyone tell me If the Vallejo is good with masking tape? I've been having a very difficult time finding paint/tape that won't result in peeled primer/paint
Could the issue be 'Operator's timing and User Headspace'?
Now I see this video/comments. I have been trying to use the valejo on soft plastic models (hero quest) and have had a nightmare of peeling and reactivation even in some cases. I just switched to badger this weekend and it's working flawlessly. soooo much better and the paint sticks to it too
Thanks for doing this video, I'm gonna pick up and try some of the Stynlrez, I like that more matte finish.
❓ Technical Question: 2:45 - What control were / are you using to remote zoom the camera?
Martin I think I did it manually but I film with FilmicPro on iPhone
So I used chipping medium and it managed to humidify all paint layers below reaching to the primer and making the whole thing flake , not just the latest coat.. 😖
I use both products and have had no issues with either. If I have to rush a job after priming I may use a hairdryer to speed drying, and I always use a low tack masking tape a low tack masking tape.
My problem with Vallejo primer isn't that it doesn't adhere well enough, but that it doesn't sand very well. It has a tendency to tear, and the edges of the tearing are difficult to remove or hide. I don't have this problem with Stynylrez.
I use both on model airplanes, some very light grey Vallejo and a little draker grey UMP (Syynylrez). Works great. Vallejo takes a little longer to be able to sand it seems, but I leave both for a week if I need to really sand it heavy. (wings)
Just wondering, I've used the Grey Vallejo Surface Primer on a plastic model that was completely cleaned before.
I am comparing it with citadel rattle can primer and found that the citadel primer is a lot more scratch resistant than vallejo.
Am I applying this wrong or are my expectations off?
I am painting models playing tabletop and I am afraid the color might come off with Vallejo primer.
Cheers!
Leeroy Jenkins Vallejo surface primer should work really well on plastic models, but I do find that spray can primes are the most resistant to scratches.
Am a Vallejo user as well and don't understand the issues people have. But I have been using it for years. Once you work it out it is easy.
Also I still have some that I brought about 8 years ago and it works fine. Just make sure to shake it well before use.
Just don't understand the hate it gets.
They need sell others
Vallejo mix 1:1 with Val airbrush thinner 25-30 Psi. I use a .35 needle. Not getting tip dry priming 5-10 models at a time. Smoothest prime I've ever had . great coverage. Would never go back to shaker can going on 10x too thick removing all fine detail.
Coming from a background of painting real world autos, the problem with paint adhesion is a surface prep problem. If you wash and soak your models to remove mold release compounds you should have no problem with adhesion. I have been using Vallejo primers for many years with no problems. As with any airbrush painting you use a good airbrush(.3mm max), proper pressure(usually @20psi) and make several passes with a flash time in between coats. Always allow at least 24 hours of cure time for any primer. I have always thinned Vallejo primers to the same milk-like consistency as when using regular paints and have never sprayed any Vallejo paint including Model Air without some amount of thinner. Thick paint hides details and is a recipe for disaster. If you want to see good airbrush technique view some vids by Les Bursley.
The worst I can say about vallejo primer is that you shouldn't use masking tape on it unless it's 100% (24hours+) cured. Other than that, it's just about perfect.
If the primer sputters/splashes, it's a problem with the airbrush most likely, rather than the actual paint.
Try the MIG masking putty, should work a breeze -i use it to mask camouflages and 'weird' paint patterns with great success...
it even says it on the bottle to wait 24 hours before masking.
I've used both and I can't get either to work well, Vallejo peeled, Stynylrez flaked off. I recently tried AK interactive primer. It went on lovely, I thought I'd found my go to primer... it literally rubs off with my finger. I'm very areful in preparing my miniatures, I wash them with washing up liquid, a good rinse then put it in an ultrasonic cleaner to ensure the washing up liquid is out of the creases etc. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Today I got some Pro-Acryl primer, I'm hoping this one just works because if not I'll have to go back to spray can and I hate those. I've got about £140 worth of primer in my cupboard, it's such a pain in the arse!
I use stynlrez and ump here in the uk although I think it is the same stuff. I love it and have had no problems. Never used the vallejo so can’t comment but the problems I have read about vallejo primer is it peels but the main thing I read about it is it comes off when masking tape is removed. Maybe you could try a video on removing masking tape and then see what happens. Thanks for sharing this video.
While Vallejo primer may work fine in this situation where you're applying it to figures, it fails badly in situations where masking and/or sanding is required.
Work for years with vallejo black primer ,airbrushing on resin kit,metal,plastic..perfect finish ,dry very fast,zero orange peeling,smooth surface..
Important to clean the surface before spraying the primer..👍
A great comparison and you made a very good point regarding shelf life . But I have always had issues with vallejo primer lifting when masking but never had the problem with Stynylrez .
The main thing I like about Vallejo primer (the black one anyway) is that it works equally well with a brush if I need to touch up some things or in the event I can't use my airbrush. Does the Stynylrez primer work with a brush (not that it's an idea way to use it, but can it be done) as well? Plus the Vallejo primer gives you more for just a little bit more. Stynylrez is 120ml and Vallejo is 200ml for around $5 more depending on where you get it.
I use Stynylrez with a brush all the time. It is quite thin but I think it brushes great.
I have both but I rate the Badger paint much higher, you can just whack it on thick as anything and it dries to the smoothest finish going, showing all detail.
Personally I’ve had the odd small issue with the Vallejo grey primer but I have had the bottle a fair time but recently got the black and it’s amazing
I've used many types of primers and love both of those, the only one that id say is bad is MIG AMMO Waterborne polymer
Do you mean the Ammo Lucky Primer? Isn't that just Stynylrez with another name.
@@apoclypse the waterborne polymer is completely different to the one shot, it been out a lot longer. If you don’t shake it for at least 5 minutes or put down very thin layers it won’t work and it’s very hard to get it to look even. One Shot Primer is excellent
Seeing your rubbing on the minis post brushing has me wondering if I got a lemon of a bottle. I use mine just as you did, straight out of the bottle. The Vallejo comes out the brush great, no issues, nothing. Even DAYS after, just the lightest scratch with a fingernail, let alone a hefty rubbing will bring the primer right up. I shake the heck out of my bottles too, and I’m not sure what was wrong. Going to try Stynylrez shortly, hoping my bottle of that works better.
Weird - yeah mine sticks on so hard it’s actually very difficult to remove. Like when I try to strip minis, it does NOT want to come off. Now, that said I’m taking about HIPS plastic minis. Metal minis it’s considerably easier to remove.
I may have had a bad bottle of the black primer but it is almost like it's partially dried in the bottle and has lots of mini chunks in the paint which block my airbrush within minutes of using it which is rather annoying. The white and grey haven't been anywhere near as bad but the grey does clog a little more than regular paint.
I like both (I also use home improvement store spray cans). I am under the impression the vallejo is more readily available and is more common. I think that availability contributes to the online reputation in a few ways (at least with tabletop crowd). I would guess that vallejo is more often a first used primer by less experienced painters. More bad experiences with the whole AB priming process will therefore occur with vallejo, even if that is not the reason for difficulty. I often see people who have experience seeking out the badger product (and by have both more experience and realistic expectations). I think the scarcity also contributes to the reputation; it takes a little more effort to get, more exclusive, and you really want it to be great. I don't consider myself a great artist and use many brands and colors of paint. Some of the people I consider amazing artists restrict themselves to a very small selection of tools (i.e. 1 kind of primer, 1 "blue", etc) and that makes sense to me for someone who has put in the time to be consistent and sensitive to slight differences.
That's an interesting theory and I think it's very likely that it contributes to the bad reputation. Some complaints don't fit in with that theory though, like people saying it used to be good and then they got a new bottle and it sucked.
As for freezing. I tried a bottle of Army Painter primer. Was horrible. Tried running it through a filter and most of the pigment was chunky and gummy. At this point mot people would have complained the AP is junk primer. HOWEVER. I have seen the aftermath of acrylic paints being frozen, and that was exactly what the AP looked like. The store I'd bought if rom had received it right after a polar freeze had moved through while it was en route. SO in this case, it looks like it froze in shipping.
Keep this in mind if you are a on line buyer of paint. DO NOT order it if the route it travels will have cold temps, especially below zero, while it's being shipped.
hi ! I do some sculptures from plastic and epoxy and need a clear top coat that is eassy to buff and as much shine as possible what you suggest . I have aircompressor and airbrushes -sprayguns .
You perfectly described the situation I have been in with white stynylrez. I keep asking myself if I just got a bad batch, but the possibility of it having been frozen before i got it makes perfect sense. Time to filter it....
Do you think these would work ok with a cordless airbrush? Those typically are sub-20psi once loaded.
I think so. Tough to say for sure. Depends on needle/nozzle diameter as well. .2mm might clog.
I have had a few issues with the Vallejo lately, the black and the grey on metal miniatures. The black will sometimes not stick to the metal (separating shortly after contact - and I have washed the models with both joy and alcohol to no improvement) or will wipe off really easily, even while painting unless I preheat the model with a hair dryer. I believe the bottle is bad though, as is separates in the bottle with some sort of beige liquid settling to the bottom, so I added mixing balls and shake the crap out of it before hand. The grey just gets heavy and won't spray a fine mist, even with flow improver and or thinner. So I am going to try the badger. I am pretty sure the stuff I have are bad bottles, but I've heard good things about the badger, so I will give it a try.
You stated what I consider to be facts. I didn't think you were pretentious. I think people-such as myself-tend to rush into something without the proper study. I usually learn by screwing up, but I found by reseaching what thinners, flow improvers and so on have given people the best results, I get good results, too. After I learned about these additives, what they do and the proper proportions, my airbrushing improved and my frustration level bottomed out. Learn about your tools, what they do and what they cannot do and the results are generally very satisfactory. Good information, sir. Cheers! Cork
I'm new to certain aspects of this hobby but not entirely. My recent trip over the internet while doing some research tells me that Vallejo products seem to need a little extra shakig and mixing.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot of user error here.
As I'm replacing my old Apple barrel paints with better things, I invested $5 in some glass beads to use as agitators. I expect that will help me get ahead of some of these reddit complaints.
An upside of getting into this now is that Vallejo is refreshed much of their hobby product line -- whether that is some of the formulas or simply the labeling -- it's easy for me to be sure that I'm getting product that has not been sitting in a sun-bleached paint rack for 8 years at a game shop.
I heard white primer from Vallejo is tragic, but that's just what I heard - when I was testing my grey primer I've let it dry 24 hours and then tried scratching it - with my thumb, with my nail and I really (and I mean REALLY) had to try for it to come off, and even then it only would chip a bit, not peel - I did have some problem with peeling, but I suspect that was either mould release or oils from my fingers, because after I started washing my sprues before priming the problem is gone.
I heard good thing about stynylrez is that it can be sanded (unlike vallejo) but as a miniature painter I dont need to sand my minis anyway, so...
I have been trying to use Vallejo gloss black primer with terrible results, but was doing it right over a painted/varnished model so presumably that’s not something I should be doing!?
Do you ever notice a difference with white primers from either Vallejo or Badger?
Chris unfortunately my white Badger primer doesn’t work well, I think it might have frozen at one point.
Sorry Guys, I build 1/48th and 1/32nd aircraft. So I have fairly large flat area that at times need sanding.I love Vallejo model air pant BUT their primer does not sand well,at allI have no probs sprayingIt might be ok for figures etc
I used the vallejo rattle can, very solid primer.
I just did the same comparison. Both of these primers are my goto air brush primers. the only time the Vallejo ever ruined off on me was because I did not completely wash my model. I thought I had, it was a fluke that I missed a piece of it. Vallejo sprays out best at about 35 PSI as recommended. never clogged in my cheapo airbrush. I got some soldering trying each at a lower pressure. I have found that badger feels a bit harder to the touch when cured. Each one of them brushes on equally well with little to no obcuring of detail. This was a good video. I am still a fan and was not offended. lol.
I know this is an old video, but have you tried the Monument Hobbies primer? I've had huge issues with it rubbing off of my minis after priming (GW plastic) and when I emailed the company they said it could do that, yeah, but after you get paint on it then it's solid. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but my other other experience is GW rattlecan that I have never had a problem with rubbing off.
I haven't tbh
Do you have nozzle cap removed why? Is it for quicker access to clean the tip? Does it influences the quality of spraying?
Yep to remove dry paint from the tip (happens a lot with acrylics). No effect on the spray.
What about white? I have terrible experience with white primer for highlighting.
I’ve used both, do the same test with metal model the Vallejo will come off more than stynelrez but they both will, don’t mind Vallejo at all though, but 32oz of stynelrez for 50.00 on Amazon when Vallejo cost 12-15 for 200ml unless there is a bigger than 200ml ???
The problem with Valejo Primer is usually on larger kits. Even if you wash your kits and I do, Vallejo doesn't sand well. Also if you are working on a kit that you are going to mask over for paint Vallejo is bad about pulling off with the tape. I switched to Stynylrez problem solved.
I've had no end to problems with Vallejo primer on pewter (Battletech and Reaper). I wash my minis in clean soapy water in a ultrasonic cleaner. Primer is un-thinned. Strait out of the bottle into the airbrush. While curing, with in 2-3 hours, it started to peel off. So I cleaned them again, stripped it, re-assembled, and re-primed, stripped, and re-primed. Less peeling the second time, but it cam off as soon as I handled them. Maybe a bad batch, but In my experience, Vallejo primer is dog shit when it comes to metal minis. Thing is, it worked fine on reaper plastic minis.
What does letting them dry for 5 minutes prove? It says right on the bottle that it takes a full 12 hours to fully cure.
Blandco just that you can work with it faster if you don’t want to wait 12 hours. If the paint had rubbed off after 5 mins then I’d see the point. But it’s ready to paint over pretty much right away.
@@TheMiniJunkie you really can't just do base coat, itll take weeks to cure
Nice commentary - thank you. Well presented and no bias. Fairly new to airbrushing and your comments will be useful.
I use VSP on my larger scale models. How good is it at staying adhered to the plastic after removing some masking tape?
When using Vallejo surface primer do you have to wear a face mask when just brushing on or only when airbrushing?
No. I don't even use one when I airbrush it.
I always wear a respirator mask (type with a replaceable fabric and charcoal filter) regardless of what paint I am spraying or airbrushing, inhaling paint particulates is dangerous. A good filter mask and replacing the filters regularly is a little expensive, but consider the value of your lungs or the cost of cancer treatment!
Vallejo primer actually has bigger particle I believe. off all the primer I used, Vallejo grey primer clogs so many times in my life......in the end, I just dont buy Vallejo grey anymore. the black one actually works pretty good and I rarely clog on them.
I've been using the Vallejo surface primer for years and I love it. Never had any problems and never had a dud bottle.
And it works just as well with a brush as an airbrush.
But I'm not religious so I will buy some Stynylrez too and love that equally.
That’s the spirit!
Are u Thinner it or u use it straight out of the bottle?
The problem with Stynylrez is if its been frozen at all before it gets to you or after it gets to you, it will clump up. And then it'll clog airbrushes no matter how big the needle and nozzle are. I made the mistake of ordering the stuff during the winter months and it must have shipped from the North on the way to me in Texas, because it was junk by the time it got to me. Massive dry tip, massive clogs, even when I tried to strain it and thin it.
I would love to have access to a good acrylic primer....But in the meantime, I use Mr. Surfacer 1500 mixed 50/50 with lacquer thinner. It works fantastically, the best airbrush primer I've used to date. I make scale models in 1/32 or 1/35 scale, so I am putting down a lot of it. You just need to wear a respirator when you spray it, you need a spray booth or some kind of ventilation system, and you need harsher cleaners to get it out of your airbrush.
I've literally never had a problem with Vallejo primer. You need to let them dry properly, but that's fine. As a cheap and effective acrylic primer it's brilliant. Now, that comes with the caveat that the gloss black primer absolutely *is* a pain in the ass to shoot, or at least by my experience.
The problem I ran into is when you try to sand the product. Vallejo tends to tear.
Let it cure longer.
@@BRLaue how many days?
Cameron Corless Two.
@@BRLaue I would rather have something that I don't have to wait so long.
Not sure what my problem is. I use Vallejo model air and I love their airbrush paints. I use their grey surface primer and I do get some clogging over time. Maybe I should adjust my psi or maybe my priming sessions are a lot longer than typical. (I paint gundams so I am painting about 50 pieces a sitting.) It could also be the fact that its grey, because i have seen some complaints based on color. Or maybe it is simply a shit bottle although the finish is decent when it works. I still use it and it hasn't been so terrible that I have replaced it yet.
I love both of those primers. Never had a problem with either.
I use vallejo and it's been 2 years. Vallejo black primers are bad, not because it's bad quality, but because it's too thick even when used with thinner. The paint dry and clog the air brush very fast. It is very possible that my compressor is not strong enough for polyurethane paints. But my setup spits nicely toothpaste type army painter paints with a bit of thinner.
I have used a vallejo white primer and it was perfect, i suspect the pigments in the black primer are bigger.
Sunshine Starcraft as I demonstrated in the video, Vallejo black primer sprays great so something is amiss with your setup or bottle(s) of primer.
One thing I noticed is that the vallejo looks wet when you sprayed it and mine never looks that way. Perhaps that's what we're doing wrong. My primer looks dry when it hits the model. Maybe with a heavier/wetter coats it might adhere better. Gonna go a bit heavier on my next prime to see what's up.
If it's dry looking on the model try shortening the distance between the two. Spraying in higher temperatures can lead to this also. Larger distances & high ambient temperature can dry the paint out before it hits the model.
Hi pal,
most black primers are really great. Even water-thinned liquitex gesso.
White is a problematic primer. I have both brands here. And stynylrez seems to separate with time. I had issues with frozen ones, but sometimes bottles get unusable after sitting in the corner for too long, no probs with vallejo. after some shaking it was ready to go.
Yea i absolutely love the black vallejo primer but the white one i have nothing but issues with it. It either splatters or is just toooo thin. I have to do at least 3+ coats of it 😩😩😩
If you work with plastic models where you have to sand dow parts after priming Vallejo is just harder to work with compared to Stynylrez. You can pretty much spray the Badger stuff like a spray can and it's dry and ready in 15 minutes while Vallejo recommends you let their's cure for 48 hours. With Badger I can prime, look at the model fix or sand down any issue and re-prime while Vallejo is still curing. You can't sand down or use tape on Vallejo without letting it cure. If all you are doing is priming minis, then pretty much any primer will work for that.
my only issue is even after allowing to dry they both scratch off while gw citadel primer doesn't scratch off with my fingernails (I've had problem with both airbrush primers coming off when handling the model to paint) they're both still really decent primers though I might just not be shaking them enouhg possibly need steel ball bearings
I had the Vallejo primer legit peel from just my fingertips. (this is me buying 3 different bottles) My first bottle ever Vallejo primer was amazing but afterwards , no success. Spray can primers have been the best for me so far.
Michael Popa spray can primers definitely work awesome, I just find them inconvenient to spray, esp in Canadian winter :)
@@TheMiniJunkie I actually use spray can primer then i use regular vallejo black to get the gloss/satin finish.
I use both regularly and like both. I think people are using Flow Improver out of habit with Vallejo - and that needs considerably longer to cure because the additive.
FYI to all - Flow improver will also make it act more like a wash as well. Use a Primer thinner or as seen here in this vid, don’t really need to thin it at all?!!
Yeah I'm thinking people are incorrectly using additives with these primers leading to the results people are posting in frustration about.
In my opinion, I work with Vallejo Surface Primer as well. I feel that it is great for small models such as what I saw in your video. That being said I am a huge fan of building for example things such as a Battleships 1/350 in scale and with such large surface (Hull of the ship) if there were any sanding required the Vallejo does seem to peel which makes life very difficult. It is hard to explain, but I would assume if you were to sand a larger surface that using Vallejo Primer you may experience problems. As for Masking tape I've never had problems with the paint peeling etc. Only problem I have is with sanding, I would not recommend Vallejo if you KNOW for a fact that sanding will be a requirement for your model kit. I would very much suggest surface primer for smaller things as it does save money over time vs buying your traditional Spray canister.
I would say I do love using Vallejo regardless but I'm selective on what I use it for! All small and fine things ive always used Vallejo. Large surface I currently still prefer using the typically "The Army Painter" brand especially if I am required to do some sanding work! I hope this can help some people out? but I don't disagree with you that Vallejo works fine!
The culmination of comments is about %90 in agreement of my opinion. Small figurines? Perfect. Great product. It seems your only spraying for a minute or so. Go to a 1:25 model car or truck. Then get back to me. Tape it off for fine lines within 5min or 24hrs. Let us know how that goes. Vallejo just cannot stand up to it. You cannot sand Vallejo. Both you can do with stynylrez with ease and zero concern. The Vallejo sprays better imo. The stynylrez will tip dry twice as fast and my airbrush requires a complete breakdown and cleaning after stynylrez use. But I also think that's why it's adhesion and overall hardness and durability is far superior to Vallejo. The better and faster it adheres..... The more issues your going to have with tip dry and spraying. Nature of the beast. I'm a 30 year painter. You should never thin your primer. The only way I could get Vallejo to spray without spatter is to thin it substantially. Please do another demo on large scale using masking. I'd be interested to watch a start to finish coat by coat of the Vallejo unthinned. I REALLY want to know how to do it without thinning. Be able to sand it and tape it without issues. Then do stynylrez with the same process's. I think you'll change your opinion rather quickly. They both have their place. They both are good products for that particular place. But not in the same place.
So without thinner and with ca. 40 psi? Well, i'll try that. How important is the thickness of the noozle?
Haven't tried the Vallejo primer yet but I've seen a lot of reviews really bashing it?
I really like the Stynylrez but It seems to be a real bitch to clean out of my airbrush. I ended up using lacquer thinner but it's still a chore.
As someone who has had issues I really don't like vallejo primer. It wasn't durable and not sandable. So what's the point?
thanks … very well presented and argued/demonstrated it all comes down to preferences
You ever find problems using Vallejo white primer?
No, although to be honest I don't use it much. I tend to use their very light greys.
vallejo recommend 15 to 20 lb pressure but no nozzle size indicated, i think if i was using on a pewter based miniature i would leave over night. stynylrez recommend a nozzle size of 4 upwards.
My Vallejo Black primer spits and clogs both my airbrushes and it's the only paint I have that does so. Worked perfectly fine when I first got it. I guess it's just gone bad.
TristanSplunge I think that can happen
I'll say this, I've been using black vallejo primer pretty much only and nust recently started having issues with with it keep clogging after a few mins and just finished priming some infinity miniatures and had to thin it to get it to not clog.
I think it with Vallejo airbrush thinner and havent gave me any issues either
Oh and I had been having the same issue with the bottle I've had and just literally received a new one and same issue