Keep in mind this video isn't intended to be an objective scale for power level or anything similar, this is mainly to show and explain what we as a group consider 'cEDH,' and what changes we have made to the decks we play in order to consider them 'semi-competitive' as we get that question fairly often. If non-gameplay style videos are something you want to continue seeing, be sure to let us know! There are many other topics we can discuss in shorter 10-minute videos that we would love to release if there's any interest.
Casually Competitive MTG I enjoyed this video and your gameplay. I was wondering how to get the database you pulled from? I have a half built urza deck and I have hit a wall either I get hated out early or I win before the slower decks. In a semi competitive LGS event. Everyone complains about it but the only way I can win more is to make it more competitive which I am afraid will lead to more hate? How do y’all deal with this in a LGS setting at Friday night commander for example? Also I am not THAT guy I bring pre cons to play with casual decks but that’s a different point. MORE information : I usually get a deck in my head and net deck /edit until it is built at this point it is focused which I play it for fun. BUT recently I started playing urza since he came out and slowly upgraded him based on Cedh decks and play group meta. This was my first super interactive deck but also my first full on combo deck. I found I really enjoy this play style and have slowly put the money in the deck. To which I come to the point: this is my brain child favorite deck and either I’m to powerful for fun play or in a event (most decks in the event are focused at best) I get hated on before I can assemble my pieces. Should I lay urza down for a while or just play it all out ? Thank you for your time Love the content and hope to hear from you I would enjoy a time to have a discussion soon
A strange thing that I've noticed in casual vs competitive play is the effectiveness of some counterspells. Mental Misstep and Daze for example are actually only good against really fast decks that are operating on a tight curve.
@@keabonhall9046 so what exactly did your previous comment add? My comment was meant to start a dialog on how some cards that can see competitive play are less efficient in slower metas. While yours was just a reiteration of the video topic
This is exactly the power level I'm interested in watching, as it's exactly the power level I like to play at. I find that TRUE cEDH, up in the 9-10s, gets very repetitive, very quickly, so my natural interest lies more in the less homogenized realm of the casual, but at the same time I ALSO like doing very powerful things and packing ways to just straight up win the game. Thus, I'm inbetween! Very finely tuned decks that, while not the MOST powerful, are certainly capable of doing interesting and powerful things. It's great, and you're great, and I'm glad there's a channel that's really honing in on this "between" space now.
This is the reason I started following this channel. Being almost exclusively a Commander player, it’s helpful to see other’s ideas and processes while creating decks that are still fun and complex without having to sacrifice viability.
I really love this channel because it fits my play group’s power level - not insanely competitive but not casual. Liked this style of video too! Really enjoying the videos you guys are producing on this channel.
Not only did I enjoy this, I really think this type of content is important, especially for those who are interested or are making the transition to another way to play edh.
You guys are exactly what i was missing in edh streaming. I also love scEDH. It is just so much more fun to play with different commanders and not having the most elaborate decks. Keep it up!
Great mission statement. You just released s1e3 with nontraditional commanders not found in 90-100% decks (Inalla, Ruric Thar, Brago, K'rrik.) I think the variety you provide is a great semi-competitive power level for a content creator. I'm also excited for past strong decks to show up again, like the Blue pod, Chulane, and Yisan.
I just happened to come across your channel and I'm really happy to have found you. While I do enjoy watching cEDH videos like playing with power or play to win I know I wouldn't be able to get those cards in real. However I can build sub-optimal cedh decks cutting those high-end costed cards. Quite often I ask myself how a cEDH would look like if we could cut the very cards you mentinoned in this video (mox diamon, gaea's cradle, timetwister and other such as LED). I feel like your "niche" is right up my alley and I fully enjoy being able to find content for people that feel the same as I do. Keep up the good work!
Such a fan of this channel. Don’t ever feel like your not doing the Lords work gentlemen. Lol keep on keeping on with the content, please and thank you. :)
For a dude that is transitioning between both, this is exactly the kind of channel for what I'm trying to do. Appreciate this video and am officially sub'ing so I can watch more of this solid "in-between" content!
More plz, I would love to hear more your thoughts on ratios between how many mana rocks, lands, card draw and the differences between competitive and casual. I'm currently trying to figure out how not to be screwed by to much/not enough of those things.
Awesome video! I’m glad there is more and more content out there defining what different power levels are. One thing I’ve found about cEDH decks is that some of them don’t always function that well against more casual decks. If the cEDH list isn’t a fast combo deck, they can get rolled over by the sheer card power that can come from some of the more casual decks. cEDH lists aren’t built to deal with a rampaging baloth pumping out 6 4/4s in a turn. Also, some of the interaction a cEDH list would run, like mental misstep and flusterstorm, tends to be much worse against decks that aren’t hyper tuned. cEDH lists are definitely meant to be played against other equally tuned lists.
Yeah, but the other side is that a fast flashhulk list, it would completly destroy a casual table Stax would probably do this too Control is an archetype that only works if it is tuned for the environment where it is build for
Der Redstone_Pro yeah that’s why I mentioned if the list wasn’t fast combo. I’m not entirely sure about stax though. Cards like thorn of amethyst and Thalia, or blood moon and back to basics lose their power when decks ramp to oblivion or run a ton of basics, which more casual decks tend to do. Either way, my point is I just found it interesting that some cEDH lists can’t just pubstomp lesser tuned lists.
Never really seen the channel before but I love this content. The way you're explaining things is very nice and easy to understand. Keep up the good work. I for one would love to see more content like this in the future.
Great video I do hope we’ll see more of it in the future. Would also enjoy videos explaining some of the combos and interactions within previous games.
I do really enjoy this kind of video. Explaining concepts and things, and getting into more discussion of the game we all love so much is a good thing. You guys tend to play a bit above the power level where I like to keep my own decks. I'd probably rate my stronger decks at about a 7-7.5, but I've seen a wide range in disparity between what that means for certain people. I'm trying to push some lists up towards a similar power level to what you showcase on this channel in creative ways, but there's not much success because I don't like using databases or base decklists. You guys are definitely a lot more competitive than my group, but at the same time, it's not the same seven decks over and over again running the exact same list. This channel occupies a very valuable spot on the power curve. Using the top as a baseline, while allowing for freedom and expression in your deckbuilding is good. I enjoy watching it. I don't know that I'd enjoy playing it myself, but the decks on this channel are an interesting goal to reach myself towards. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to your next video.
What is cEDH? Making your deck 90% lands, mana rocks, counterspells, and tutors... and usually throwing a worldgorger dragon combo somewhere in there, too.
I enjoyed this style of video a lot so more would be well received :) As for the power level of the channel I really enjoy what you've done with the decks on the channel. As of late I've had trouble building a deck at a low power level without getting frustrated and scrapping it so my decks tend to land either right at or just below the power levels of the decks featured
Definitely enjoy this type of video, would love to hear some more "lecture" style videos where your go over certain decks, archetypes, cards choices, etc.
i was reading a forum on how good time twister really is and whether it's necessary in every deck with blue. it was from 2013, and they said the price at that time was $275. ouch
I do use cedh decklist just for like deck ideas. What i do find funny is that some definitely need to be updated. Paradox engine has been banned a while now but some of the deck lists there still have it
Hey guys I was hoping someone could help me. Now I have been making adjustments to my yarok deck and was wondering about a specific card. Does anyone know if yaroks ability effects the Myojin cards (eg Myojin of life’s web) would the card enter with two Divinity counters?
Great video! I play at a local bar league where we have around 30 Commander players. Only 6-8 of them have Cedh decks while the rest vary between power levels of 4-8. It’s hard to know what power level to play because if there is a Cedh player in your randomized pod you have to play a stronger deck but then you get into pods where you have one level 10 deck a lvl 5 deck and a level 6 deck. Makes a turn 1 Mystic Remora not as great or certain counterspells. And while you are trying to stop a combo from one player the others are slowly building there board states offering no real interaction to combos.
Something I'd love to see represented on the screen during your gameplay videos is the turn number. Also, would you be able to release stats at the end of each season like how many turns your average game was?
Hi, I just found out your channel and I watched every single games since Season 1. Based on your explanation, may I know your opinion on what would be your budget range in casual competitive EDH? Thanks.
Hello, Jedi here! I was going to ask if it was okay for me to link your content for a podcast or video that I will be creating. I'll need it for the sole purpose of providing people a more in depth explanation of what Competitive Commander is supposed to be and I believe your team outlines does a superb job of outlining our format really well! I appreciate your time, thank you!
the command zone are a very bad representation of the format. They use very powerful cards in very wrong ways and have set up games to sell more standard packs. if you want to learn about the game, you're better off watching other channels. And yes, considering sheer value of command zone decks, their power level would easily be 7.5.
It's definitely more 6-7, with the exeptions of guests/deck builds. They understand the power levels of their table and often just misplay on purpose to have a lengthier gameplay. I'd say Vs series is an example for casual gameplay andMtg Muddstah as a focused gameplay channel, while Playing with Power comeing close second with The Lab Maniacs in terms of competitive power.
Also has a hermit Druid line, Activate druid, mill deck. Narcomeba triggers and enters. Play land to return bloodghast. Flashback dread return, saccing 3 creatures and bring fish back. It enters and you win the game!
Does the cedh decklist database website even work? My phone is giving me all kinds of security warnings while trying to load it, and then the site doesn't load. Is this just me? Not mobile friendly errr?
the maths on the cradle is wrong... since you have to factor each draw of the first 7 cards then 8,9 and 10th card each of the times and along with that, you have fetch deck thinning lands.. you cant actually just say well 10 cards is 10% of the deck, because its actually 99... but then each time you draw for your starting hand the decksize decreases by 1.
We originally chose this niche because it's where most of our decks were before we started to record, and as we discussed recording more we decided to just go all-in on semi-competitive and refine our own boundaries for the channel since it is where we are most comfortable
Vintage plays very...strangely. Vintage plays mental misstep, which in cEDH is practically useless. Vintage is super bursty, and plays cards in that way (similar to Legacy), whereas cEDH is all about setting up and protecting combos and infinite combos
You guys seem pretty cool but I can't stand watching gameplay for any game. I would check out any video on theory crafting and want to find ways to bring up all of my decks power level without falling into the 9 ten competitive neighborhood.
Keep in mind this video isn't intended to be an objective scale for power level or anything similar, this is mainly to show and explain what we as a group consider 'cEDH,' and what changes we have made to the decks we play in order to consider them 'semi-competitive' as we get that question fairly often. If non-gameplay style videos are something you want to continue seeing, be sure to let us know! There are many other topics we can discuss in shorter 10-minute videos that we would love to release if there's any interest.
Casually Competitive MTG I enjoyed this video and your gameplay. I was wondering how to get the database you pulled from?
I have a half built urza deck and I have hit a wall either I get hated out early or I win before the slower decks. In a semi competitive LGS event. Everyone complains about it but the only way I can win more is to make it more competitive which I am afraid will lead to more hate?
How do y’all deal with this in a LGS setting at Friday night commander for example?
Also I am not THAT guy I bring pre cons to play with casual decks but that’s a different point.
MORE information : I usually get a deck in my head and net deck /edit until it is built at this point it is focused which I play it for fun. BUT recently I started playing urza since he came out and slowly upgraded him based on Cedh decks and play group meta. This was my first super interactive deck but also my first full on combo deck. I found I really enjoy this play style and have slowly put the money in the deck. To which I come to the point: this is my brain child favorite deck and either I’m to powerful for fun play or in a event (most decks in the event are focused at best) I get hated on before I can assemble my pieces.
Should I lay urza down for a while or just play it all out ?
Thank you for your time
Love the content and hope to hear from you
I would enjoy a time to have a discussion soon
We feel that you fill this niche very well! Love this type of content as well as gameplay! Keep up the great work!
Thank you so much!
Really love that both these channels exist; some of my favorite content on YT.
A strange thing that I've noticed in casual vs competitive play is the effectiveness of some counterspells. Mental Misstep and Daze for example are actually only good against really fast decks that are operating on a tight curve.
Same with removal and deathrite. There's loads of cards like that
crovax 13 casual EDH and comp are entirely different formats is why
@@keabonhall9046 thank you for your input. If I need a determination of the composition of the floor I'll message you
crovax 13 looks like you’re gonna be sending a lot then bud
@@keabonhall9046 so what exactly did your previous comment add? My comment was meant to start a dialog on how some cards that can see competitive play are less efficient in slower metas. While yours was just a reiteration of the video topic
This is exactly the power level I'm interested in watching, as it's exactly the power level I like to play at. I find that TRUE cEDH, up in the 9-10s, gets very repetitive, very quickly, so my natural interest lies more in the less homogenized realm of the casual, but at the same time I ALSO like doing very powerful things and packing ways to just straight up win the game. Thus, I'm inbetween! Very finely tuned decks that, while not the MOST powerful, are certainly capable of doing interesting and powerful things. It's great, and you're great, and I'm glad there's a channel that's really honing in on this "between" space now.
This is EXACTLY the power level I love playing! Keep making this awesome content!
+1 for "conceptual style videos like this"
Thanks for the response! We wanted to test this style of video before starting developing more of them, so the feedback is incredibly helpful
This is the reason I started following this channel. Being almost exclusively a Commander player, it’s helpful to see other’s ideas and processes while creating decks that are still fun and complex without having to sacrifice viability.
I really enjoyed this kind of podcast like episode to wich I can just listen and relax!
I really love this channel because it fits my play group’s power level - not insanely competitive but not casual.
Liked this style of video too! Really enjoying the videos you guys are producing on this channel.
Thanks for the feedback!
Not only did I enjoy this, I really think this type of content is important, especially for those who are interested or are making the transition to another way to play edh.
You guys are exactly what i was missing in edh streaming. I also love scEDH. It is just so much more fun to play with different commanders and not having the most elaborate decks. Keep it up!
Getting this video in my recommendeds is one of the best things of 2020 this year.
Great mission statement. You just released s1e3 with nontraditional commanders not found in 90-100% decks (Inalla, Ruric Thar, Brago, K'rrik.) I think the variety you provide is a great semi-competitive power level for a content creator. I'm also excited for past strong decks to show up again, like the Blue pod, Chulane, and Yisan.
This channel seems like it's exactly what I've been looking for.
I just happened to come across your channel and I'm really happy to have found you. While I do enjoy watching cEDH videos like playing with power or play to win I know I wouldn't be able to get those cards in real. However I can build sub-optimal cedh decks cutting those high-end costed cards. Quite often I ask myself how a cEDH would look like if we could cut the very cards you mentinoned in this video (mox diamon, gaea's cradle, timetwister and other such as LED). I feel like your "niche" is right up my alley and I fully enjoy being able to find content for people that feel the same as I do. Keep up the good work!
Such a fan of this channel. Don’t ever feel like your not doing the Lords work gentlemen. Lol keep on keeping on with the content, please and thank you. :)
Love this breakdown. Thanks guys!
For a dude that is transitioning between both, this is exactly the kind of channel for what I'm trying to do. Appreciate this video and am officially sub'ing so I can watch more of this solid "in-between" content!
More plz, I would love to hear more your thoughts on ratios between how many mana rocks, lands, card draw and the differences between competitive and casual. I'm currently trying to figure out how not to be screwed by to much/not enough of those things.
Awesome video! I’m glad there is more and more content out there defining what different power levels are.
One thing I’ve found about cEDH decks is that some of them don’t always function that well against more casual decks. If the cEDH list isn’t a fast combo deck, they can get rolled over by the sheer card power that can come from some of the more casual decks. cEDH lists aren’t built to deal with a rampaging baloth pumping out 6 4/4s in a turn. Also, some of the interaction a cEDH list would run, like mental misstep and flusterstorm, tends to be much worse against decks that aren’t hyper tuned. cEDH lists are definitely meant to be played against other equally tuned lists.
That's why ruhric thar works really well, make him uncounterable and most decks can't deal with him, he's my favourite staxs commander for that reason
Yeah, but the other side is that a fast flashhulk list, it would completly destroy a casual table
Stax would probably do this too
Control is an archetype that only works if it is tuned for the environment where it is build for
Der Redstone_Pro yeah that’s why I mentioned if the list wasn’t fast combo. I’m not entirely sure about stax though. Cards like thorn of amethyst and Thalia, or blood moon and back to basics lose their power when decks ramp to oblivion or run a ton of basics, which more casual decks tend to do.
Either way, my point is I just found it interesting that some cEDH lists can’t just pubstomp lesser tuned lists.
Blood pod which preys on cedh combo decks actually is pretty fair in regular tables too.
Never really seen the channel before but I love this content. The way you're explaining things is very nice and easy to understand. Keep up the good work. I for one would love to see more content like this in the future.
Great video I do hope we’ll see more of it in the future.
Would also enjoy videos explaining some of the combos and interactions within previous games.
Casually Competitive is pretty much the power level of my LGS playgroup. And i really enjoyed this video!
I do really enjoy this kind of video. Explaining concepts and things, and getting into more discussion of the game we all love so much is a good thing.
You guys tend to play a bit above the power level where I like to keep my own decks. I'd probably rate my stronger decks at about a 7-7.5, but I've seen a wide range in disparity between what that means for certain people. I'm trying to push some lists up towards a similar power level to what you showcase on this channel in creative ways, but there's not much success because I don't like using databases or base decklists. You guys are definitely a lot more competitive than my group, but at the same time, it's not the same seven decks over and over again running the exact same list.
This channel occupies a very valuable spot on the power curve. Using the top as a baseline, while allowing for freedom and expression in your deckbuilding is good. I enjoy watching it. I don't know that I'd enjoy playing it myself, but the decks on this channel are an interesting goal to reach myself towards. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to your next video.
What is cEDH?
Making your deck 90% lands, mana rocks, counterspells, and tutors... and usually throwing a worldgorger dragon combo somewhere in there, too.
For most decks i would agree. But really, not all work like this and some have incredible variety
Mega Police oh, agreed... just generalizing quite bit based on how I’ve seen a lot of games play out.
@@Durgenheim oh gotcha. Yeah i get bored of decks like flash hulk and dramatic scepter for that reason lol
Great vid, always good to layout your intent for a content project :)
I enjoyed this style of video a lot so more would be well received :)
As for the power level of the channel I really enjoy what you've done with the decks on the channel. As of late I've had trouble building a deck at a low power level without getting frustrated and scrapping it so my decks tend to land either right at or just below the power levels of the decks featured
Definitely enjoy this type of video, would love to hear some more "lecture" style videos where your go over certain decks, archetypes, cards choices, etc.
i was reading a forum on how good time twister really is and whether it's necessary in every deck with blue. it was from 2013, and they said the price at that time was $275. ouch
Loved this video. Bring more please :)
Very good video! Really clarifys a lot!
cEDH is a format where fun is forbidden, everybody tries to kill everybody asap and games end on turn 3.
j/k
I do use cedh decklist just for like deck ideas. What i do find funny is that some definitely need to be updated. Paradox engine has been banned a while now but some of the deck lists there still have it
This is literally the type of gameplay I’ve been looking for. Casually competitive
Very helpful, I myself was wondering this. Thanks!
Hey guys I was hoping someone could help me. Now I have been making adjustments to my yarok deck and was wondering about a specific card. Does anyone know if yaroks ability effects the Myojin cards (eg Myojin of life’s web) would the card enter with two Divinity counters?
Great video!
I play at a local bar league where we have around 30 Commander players. Only 6-8 of them have Cedh decks while the rest vary between power levels of 4-8. It’s hard to know what power level to play because if there is a Cedh player in your randomized pod you have to play a stronger deck but then you get into pods where you have one level 10 deck a lvl 5 deck and a level 6 deck. Makes a turn 1 Mystic Remora not as great or certain counterspells. And while you are trying to stop a combo from one player the others are slowly building there board states offering no real interaction to combos.
Something I'd love to see represented on the screen during your gameplay videos is the turn number. Also, would you be able to release stats at the end of each season like how many turns your average game was?
Cant wait for the content that is come. I would love to see a K'rriik, son of yawgmoth deck!
Hi, I just found out your channel and I watched every single games since Season 1. Based on your explanation, may I know your opinion on what would be your budget range in casual competitive EDH? Thanks.
Hello, Jedi here!
I was going to ask if it was okay for me to link your content for a podcast or video that I will be creating. I'll need it for the sole purpose of providing people a more in depth explanation of what Competitive Commander is supposed to be and I believe your team outlines does a superb job of outlining our format really well! I appreciate your time, thank you!
Sure thing! We have no issues with that
For exemple, the Command Zone decks they use in Game Knights are around 7,5 in the scale this vídeo mention
andrichard kithkin tribal deck from mtg goldfish is like a 10/10 right? That's why people don't play kithkin right? No?
@@ashra8281 I don't know
the command zone are a very bad representation of the format. They use very powerful cards in very wrong ways and have set up games to sell more standard packs. if you want to learn about the game, you're better off watching other channels. And yes, considering sheer value of command zone decks, their power level would easily be 7.5.
@@xAnonymousss well, they ARE sponsured by WOTC só, they haver tô do somethings for them
It's definitely more 6-7, with the exeptions of guests/deck builds. They understand the power levels of their table and often just misplay on purpose to have a lengthier gameplay.
I'd say Vs series is an example for casual gameplay andMtg Muddstah as a focused gameplay channel, while Playing with Power comeing close second with The Lab Maniacs in terms of competitive power.
Thassa's oracle anyone?
seems pretty deece
Lab man replacement in a LOT (if not all) of decks
@@CasuallyCompetitiveMTG yeah that's what I'm thinking. Or Jace if they run 2 of the effect
Also has a hermit Druid line, Activate druid, mill deck. Narcomeba triggers and enters. Play land to return bloodghast. Flashback dread return, saccing 3 creatures and bring fish back. It enters and you win the game!
@@honestabe952 Better dust off my Faerie Macabre again...
Thassa's oracle is quite broken for cEDH
Does the cedh decklist database website even work? My phone is giving me all kinds of security warnings while trying to load it, and then the site doesn't load. Is this just me? Not mobile friendly errr?
Yes it works, both on my android n laptop...
@@tegarsatriyo2443 Ah, it would appear the chrome on mobile was giving me an issue for some reason. Works fine on other browsers. :)
the maths on the cradle is wrong... since you have to factor each draw of the first 7 cards then 8,9 and 10th card each of the times and along with that, you have fetch deck thinning lands.. you cant actually just say well 10 cards is 10% of the deck, because its actually 99... but then each time you draw for your starting hand the decksize decreases by 1.
well-made video. You could definitely try and do more videos like this one and add it to your channel vocabulary.
Hard to balance finding my favorite colors, preferred commanders and playstyle for cEDH/semi-cEDH. Mostly because I'm rather picky with generals
Presents Gaia as expensive land... laughs in Tabernacle
I like this content right here
If your a kind of a “min-maxer” wouldn’t you be more comfortable in regular magic? I thought the point of commander was to make the game more casual
I dont care much for the level of gameplay, I just want to see more high quality commander gameplay.
I definitely appreciate the explanation, I was wondering why you chose this niche.
We originally chose this niche because it's where most of our decks were before we started to record, and as we discussed recording more we decided to just go all-in on semi-competitive and refine our own boundaries for the channel since it is where we are most comfortable
I thought It was very interesting and would like to hear more about your non-number power rating for decks.
Will you have a seperate video to explain your competitive meter?
love this content but need to continue to see more gameplay videos along with this content
Check out their last video! They laid out the new seasons structure with lots of gameplay.
The Pioneer of Commander lol Sounds good.
I'm working on a tool to rank commanders... A 1 to 10 scale is still too subjective, i wish I can finish it fast and maybe make an app for it hahah
can you make a video about duel commander? i woud really want to see that!
Partner commanders imo are why cEDH lacks variety
Id say it does make variety, but when you have commanders like Thrasios, theres basically no other option.
Wouldn't it be 3 out of 99/98 since your commander(s) are not in your deck?
You are correct, the number stays almost exactly the same, but it would be out of 99 or 98
C is actually for Canadian, and its because "Sorry" gets used way too much .. *snickers*
j/k
maybe competitive should include Vintage staples. those are the best cards, aren't they?
Vintage plays very...strangely. Vintage plays mental misstep, which in cEDH is practically useless. Vintage is super bursty, and plays cards in that way (similar to Legacy), whereas cEDH is all about setting up and protecting combos and infinite combos
This video is great
Boom I have subscribed
4:10 *laughs in 2020 buyout*
Sadly i can´t upload my decklist to cedh, archidekt.com/decks/314374#Arcum_Dagsson_ccEDH maybe anyone can :) feel free to use it
Timetwister is a 3,000 card. 😭😭😭
Sidisi brood tyrant gameplay
Hey the Mystic Remoras are local friends!
Please play Urza or K'rrik !
You guys seem pretty cool but I can't stand watching gameplay for any game.
I would check out any video on theory crafting and want to find ways to bring up all of my decks power level without falling into the 9 ten competitive neighborhood.
So you're playing UU :v
CEDH. Who infinite combos first. "Degenerate combos"
Not always infinite though
What is cEDH? Kinda boring i tell you what
First