KPIX Original Report: Sidewalk Sinking Fast In Mission Bay Neighborhood
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ค. 2024
- A few blocks from San Francisco's tilting Millennium Tower, something else is sinking: the sidewalk. KPIX 5 first reported the problem a year ago but as Max Darrow reports, it has gotten worse.
What’s the surprise?!? I was a project designer in an Arch firm by mission Bay in 2008 when the neighborhood was forming and we all knew it will happen!
Let me guess. They didn’t care and push everything forward. For more taxes and fees.
Property buyers did not read the fine print.
It is a non issue. Of course you will have differential settlement. And so what? It is a sidewalk. What do you propose? Building the sidewalk on piers?
Ahhhhhh. But money talks.
Rachel Gordon of the SF Department of Public Works says the sinking sidewalks are the property owners' responsibility.
And how about the sinking streets? Whose responsibility is that?
Tax payers
If homeowner’s responsibility then they may fence off their property.
Block the streets off is the no cost way of handling the cracked streets!
I have maps of SF from the 1850’s. You’d be surprised how much is landfill
TRUTH! And if you pay attention to the crosswalks as you approach and walk through FiDi and SOMA, there are plaques embedded in the pavement noting where the original coastline was. It's a bit eerie, actually.
@@FrisbeeGirl Millenium tower is just off the old shoreline
@@mmaranta785 Just off the shoreline on its nearest side. The whole newly named "East Cut" District is a situation overall.
@@FrisbeeGirl True.
Nope! Don't think I'd be surprised at all.
This area of SF was filled in with rubble from 1906 earthquake-it used to be part of the tidal estuary. Mayor Willie Brown allowed developers to build here knowing its history full well. Developers ignored the facts in an effort to make big bucks when Dot-com boom was big and everyone insisted on living in SF. Changed the face of a once-proud City.
Slick Willie
@@jft7174 Willie is not a good name.
@@joltjolt5060 😞 Da Mayor?
The buildings aren't sinking but the sidewalk is
@@Glidescube Actually, the building is resting on landfill subjected to the vagaries of the tidal marsh environment. Tides do occur in the Bay and the building is just “a-sinking in the tide…” because of location and design. I don’t think there’s a “permanent” fix.
Sidewalk is private property for maintenance and public property for use. Yep, totally makes sense.
This.
Our elected people allowed that to happen.
WE had to fix the sidewalks in front of our house...ALL homeowners have to fix the sidewalks in front of their property...although we don't own them...It gets the public works dept off the hook....Isn't that crazy??
SF just loves fucking their tax paying businesses. They won’t protect them from increased theft caused by their progressive ideology and they won’t fix poorly engineered stuff they approved
@@spignetti yep! I remember in the 90s my family rented a cement truck & redid the front of our sidewalk. I thought it was weird then, but I understand now.
The CITY is the one who gave the approval to build on that land. The CITY is the one with the old maps that know for a fact they are building on top of landfill. The CITY is the one who wants to collect the taxes for approving The construction in that area.
Then the CITY should be the one to pay for their mistakes
If your dog takes a crap in front of your neighbors sidewalk in front of the door is it your neighbors responsibility to pick up your dogs dog CRAP
The CITY needs to pick up after their CRAP 💩
Buildings have no problems.
I grew up in the Bay Area and it amazes me that San Francisco has allowed so much over building. How many other buildings will fall when Millennium Tower falls? The city is collapsing on itself and its not going to take an earthquake to finish the job.
It’s sinking because that neighborhood is built on landfill 🤦🏻u don’t need an engineering degree to figure that out smh
Building your castle on sand, literally.
More like mud.
Destined for destruction.
Steer clear of that neighborhood.
The castle is more having problems... only the motte.
@@thornil2231 build your foundation on the Rock… Christ Jesus.
Seek His✝️ truth prayerfully in all your conduct no matter the worldly cost &/or consequence
Landfill - they built on it anyway and this issue is common close to the Bay waters. CA already has a sinking problem...
It is not the landfill that is making the sidewalks sink, it is really poor engineering.
California and Florida sinking states, sucks for the people who bought houses/properties.
@@tvviewer4500 Both
@@patrisio3 no, its just engineering.
@@theshield1613 California does not have marsh lands like Florida. My neighborhood in San Francisco is not on landfill and is not sinking.
Was I the only one paying attention in school when my 8th grade science teacher said 30 years from now San Francisco is going to start sliding into the bay.
Looks like those new properties are overvalued if factoring sidewalk repair liabilities.
If it is a person or company's responsibility to repair the sidewalk, and the damage presents a safety risk, owners should start blocking off their portion so they don't get sued. If the government wants to claim that they can't do that, okay, then the government should cover the repairs. Public use equals public responsibility.
You ALL gave up your right to fight city hall when u installed total socialist democracy in your "government". They will decide your fate, THEY know it will be for the "greater good". Take it & shut up.
It is called a public right of way. Stop making stupid comments about things you don't understand.
@@thornil2231 I understand u get what u vote for. File your complaints in the circular "file" in under your desk with the stale pizza
"Building on a landfill sounds safe" -who ever had the idea to build there...
... made a lot of money.
... moved to an upscale neighboorhood.
... enjoys their retirement without ever thinking of sinking.
Why would sidewalks not be part of the city’s responsibility? Why is the street for cars public but the street for walking is private?
It may be hard to believe but your property line goes out to the center of the streets. You pay tax on that but the city deems it necessary for public passage rights. IOW, there must be room for public passage allowed by the land owner. It not exactly the same everywhere and all situations but that the gist of it.
It's pretty bizarre. Here in the UK pavement maintenance is part of what we pay our local taxes to maintain along with local roads and injuries or damage caused by poor upkeep are the liability of the local council, every year councils across the country get sued by people tripping on uneven paving slabs or damage to wheels and suspension on cars hitting pot holes and I can't understand why that would be different in the US, I mean don't you pay property taxes plus local income taxes in the States? What the heck are you paying for?
@@darthwiizius we pay taxes so that we can go invade other countries, bomb the hell out of them, and then go back in and occupy/rebuild them for decades….. God forbid they actually use our tax money to repair infrastructure here at home….
@@RandomRandomnessKCMO
Well I never realised San Fran council was so active in the World. If you want to get your national infrastructure fixed then go and protest outside Sinema and Manchin's houses and work places, give those 2 corrupt fuckers no peace, treat them like, I dunno, an oil rich middle eastern country or a country south of Mexico.
Because governments aren't stupid...EVERY sidewalk is the owners' responsibility...
Those very bad sidewalks are also dangerous for baby strollers and elderly people, as well as those with disabilities. Those disabled people include visually impaired citizens and those who are wheelchair bound. Other disabled people use crutches, walkers, or canes, like my mom uses one.
The blind leading the blind. Has no one ever been to Europe? In Europe they use pavers … no cracks, and easily reset if settlement occurs.
We have a community pool...cement deck was shifting and cracking very bad in 3 years time. I found guy to do replacement with pavers...he found a cheaper guy who did same old cement 👎👎
sinking to the left I'm sure.
The city is the one that approved the permits for the construction, the city is liable.
This is going to be devastating when a huge section of the city becomes a sinkhole.
see “La Brae”
are we supposed to feel sorry for the people who are caught up in the looming and oft-reported potential devastation they've ignored for decades?
Looking at the city how would you tell when it happens?
How convenient, sidewalks are no longer the cities responsibility
The government there won’t be happy till San Francisco is completely up in flames. Just letting everything go to hell
@@oooof6861 0.1% of San Francisco, all of the headlines
Building on landfill in an earthquake-prone area. Remember what happened in 89? Buildings in the Missions District sank and tilted.
The property owners are responsible unless they decide to do something on the side walk and then it magically belongs back to them. Blame shifting doesn't solve the problem
Here in Vegas, we (public works) are responsible for the sidewalks. We will fix them at our expense. The business owners already paid for the sidewalks thru their taxes. We have a couple sidewalk crews that jackhammer and replace sidewalks full time.
No wonder why so many are moving here. We don't rip people off.
Vegas seems great, but hot. Idk though it might be worth it to sweat a little.
@@joltjolt5060 It's hot: Half of June thru mid-August. Then the temps moderate. At this moment (4:13 pm) it's 78*. Basically two months of dry heat then 10 months of mostly nice weather. Those aren't bad numbers. And you will never have a rusty car ever again. Cars last virtually until you get tired of them.
WHO WANT TO LIVE IN THE 🏜 🏝 🏜 🏝 MAY I NOT ASK
A tale of two sidewalks 😂
In my city, sidewalks are the city's problem.
In California, home owners are financially responsible for public side walk. It should be called walking tax.
The city just made me pay sidewalk repair.
Meanwhile in my neighborhood PG&E is tearing up the streets and sidewalks and leaving everything warped to hell.
@@jayhuang7747 Wow! I wouldn't last long there, Jay.
So if the sidewalks are private property then the businesses can block them from public use.
Nope, it’s deemed by the city that it is only ‘private’ when it comes to maintaining expense and lawsuits from neglect and other related issues. It becomes public in any other instances, when example putting anything on a sidewalk for business ventures or personal use. City is just becoming cheap while ripping off by the huge income of property taxes they receive to fill their own pockets.
It’s always been this way, and is in most areas. People are responsible for shoveling sidewalks, and the city plows the streets. In this case, home owners maintain the sidewalks, and the city maintains the streets.
It’s a product of privilege, it comes with some responsibility. The prices on housing in that area have skyrocketed, they just need to pay their fair share and not ask the bar backs/bartenders, nurses, maintenance people/low wage workers taxes to pay for these luxury buildings when folks can’t even get decent affordable dental.
The rich can take care of themselves. One day the public will figure that out.
In San Francisco, if anyone parks their car on the sidewalk that blocks pedestrians and wheelchairs from use of the sidewalk, the car will be cited.
@@freshencounter there's a distinction between a maintenance expense vs a restoration/improvement which is clearly defined by the IRS and could be applied here. agreed shoveling snow, etc is considered a homeowner's cost/responsibility and deemed "maintenance" but replacing a sidewalk is clearly an improvement and should be bared by the City. Trust me I am generally for less government intervention but i must admit in this situation to me it seems clearly to be the CIty's expense to fix the sidewalks.
@@Traci.Nelson Hello, I agree that the city should cover based on the percentage of affordable units. With over 8K homeless folks with not enough access to shelter, I’d like to see that addressed first. One of my previous clients who couldn’t afford rent while working, had to sit in a chair for sleep for weeks cause there weren’t any beds. He worked on his feet all day, sitting in a chair all night meant swelling.
These folks can fix their situation, the route to fixing his meant we had to get him into a hospital for medication, then a spec ail request for a bed. Last I heard he was managing restaurant.
Bottom line, I don’t disagree with you, and if we don’t make people in need a priority now, then when? I was able to get homeless folks jobs in tech, TJs, Task Rabbit. So they are not “unworthy”. Over 30 years in SF and it just keeps getting worse.
And really, side walks are buckling all over the city. If the city is going to repair them all, let it be on a financial needs basis. Otherwise, the working class homeowner is getting fined for not fixing theirs, while the city does it for luxury buildings?
That tower needs to come down
Hince Landfill ,Remember That When As It Will Keep Sinking Just Like That Joke of A Building
So the sea isn't rising, the land is sinking.
Bad sub grade means either non compacted sub grade material or bad backfill on subgrade. As the cracks get bigger the rain water will get worse saturating the subgrade. Who ever put the side walks in didn't compact to correct densities.
This is so tragic. Thoughts and prayers to all those affected.
Remember the 89 earthquake? The 280 freeway fell. And houses/apartments there going for $2.5m easily.
💯
Incorrect. The 280 Interstate freeway did not fall. You are referring to the Cypress double deck structure of the 880 Interstate freeway in Oakland.
"California tumbles into the sea
That'll be the day I go back to Annandale" Steely Dan
Impossible, the plates are going the other direction. Edgar Cayce was a fraud, he started the meme.
😲 " WOW!.... Talk about ' having that sinking feeling ' . It started off with the, seemingly, never-ending Millenium Tower debacle. Now, it's sinking Mission Bay sidewalks. While many are nail biting over the next big Earthquake, San Francisco is literally collapsing under It's own sheer weight. "
We have a neighborhood in Philadelphia called Logan where some city blocks were sinking. The neighborhood was built on a landfill. These were only 2 story homes. The houses eventually were condemned and the city bulldozed about 1 square mile of houses. If the 2 story houses were sinking because it was built on landfill, what you think would happen with 50 story highrises?
Sidewalks? I can promise you foundations will be affected as well.
Yup that's SF for you.
So if the sidewalks are private property then why are so many homeless are sleeping on the sidewalks when the property owner/security can tell them to leave?
That used to be marshland next to the bay.
Dear San Fran, FFS
Please stop what you are doing and look to Chicago. Chicago set all the standards for building on landfill and I can assure you that we figured out how to build sidewalks that don't sink and buildings that don't tilt due to subsidence.
What ever is going on over there is not ok. Too many too smart people with ideas and not enough practical experience...
Absolutely agree.
Damn near everything east of state street is landfill from the chicago fire, solid refuse disposal etc. Massively compacted and mixed with cementitious fill.
One thing, as a builder, we have occasionally run into on the near north side (DePaul, Lincoln Park, Sheffield, Wrigleyville etc) is live streams of water below grade in existing basements, some of which required perimeter tiling and permanent ejection. Lake Michigan is no match for any kind of engineering, it can find its' way in.
If they have to fix sidewalk does that mean they can put gate on it ?
No. The sidewalk must remain free for pedestrians and wheelchairs to use.
This is not uncommon around the SF bay area. There are landfill and Bay Mud areas all around the bay margin. Unfortunately, it requires maintenance and special procedures. Almost the entire City of Foster City is on Bay Mud!
Normal construction cutting corners again
Could the tower bring down blocks with it?
It's not too bad of a fix. Inject expanding foam under the problematic sidewalks for in-place repairs.
I was one of the Inspector on these building when they were built. I was curios as to why most ig the underground services were hung on supports and covered in p-gravel. I was told that they expected the ground to sink on the order of 10-20 inches in the next 20 years. So this phenomena is not out of the original building specification, but exactly what was expected.
"Built on landfill". LOL!
If I trip who do I sue?
In mean time Yellow spray paint any cracks...Caution 👍👍👍
If you are from the city...you know what's landfill & what's not. Tisk Tisk from the point💜
But the city issued the permits for them to build in the first place…?
One fix for some areas maybe jacking up part of the low section partway and grinding off the high edge where two slabs come together or join. This is done to deal with driveways sagging. Yes it is a stopgap measure, I know. A hole or holes is or are drilled thru the concrete and either foam or mud is pumped under to raise the slab.
Lots of examples on U tube.
Does the Cypress freeway ring a bell??
is this from tectonic shifting? is it a harbinger of a coming earthquake?
Leaning city of sanfran sooner or latet
so if the sidewalks belong to the building, the building owners can just block off the sidewalks. what would the city say to that?
True
So the building is pulling down all the property around it, too? That can't be good.
As an Uber driver the streets of San Francisco are horrendous especially on a motorcycle or scooter.
Yes the cracks are getting worse, might as well fill them with dirty needles and 💩
Public areas are the government's responsibility to maintain. Private areas are the owner's responsibility to maintain. Sidewalks are part of a city's or state infrastructure. Unless property owners don't pay property tax, the government should fix the sidewalk.
& at the Mission Rock development, 8 new giant buildings are in process of being constructed at the very edge of the landfill! Approved after the city was aware of sinking. Mission Bay is a ground liquification zone, so in an earthquake, the streets and sidewalks could just collapse. In a state known for engineering excellence, how are these incredibly dangerous buildings getting approved!?! I lived in the neighborhood and our garage had huge gashes through the concrete in the garage ceiling. The building was only 10 ish years old and having major structural issues.
New Bay clay is rushing to meet its old bay clay bro. underneath to be a happy big family again. 😁
The entire city is going into the toilet.
How about build it right in the first place
4:36 nailed it with her comment. Linda is a leader for sure. Now too bad she’s not an elected official or a public works employee…
Since its private property then moving the tent people should be easy ?
Too much pee and poop 💩 on the sidewalks.
So house the homeless.
What else would you expect from san fransicko? Building on a land fill lol
Geezus...have they heard of Flex Seal?
I remember back in the 80s NO one would go to the mission bay and near 3rd street. Now all these RICH tech lived and worked in those areas. good luck to you all. don't worry those people have $$$$$$$$$$$.
Sidewalks should be the city’s responsibility just like the road itself is.
In Hong Kong pedestrian walkways are attached to buildings, and if these buildings are on bedrock, why not attach a raised walkway to replace sidewalk.
It is true that the maintenance of sidewalks is the property owners responsibility. But this problem is geological and is due to poor city planning and poor city development of the Mission Bay area. The streets are also sinking. I guess the politicians will blame the property owners for that as well.
businesses should take over the area of the sidewalk and use it for profit!
Is there not a skyscraper already leaning and ready to collapse one day in the city?
It’s call character, Johnny
I gotta sell a house in Belmont before SF completely collapses and it’s not worth anything anymore...
Good alternative for people who can't afford to go to Venice. Throw in some gondolas & have the homeless subsidize some frescos.
Zero chest for people in the hood because SF does not care about poor people where are their temporary bridges for sidewalks must be nice to be rich you can pressure the city and politicians
Things will change real fast once a high-paid lawyer gets injured walking to or from a ball game.
the earth is alive people!!
Developer be like “kiss my ass on da crack!”
What you you need to do is go to court and site the civil disability laws. Los Angeles tried the same crap and there was a lawsuit against the city citing the civil disability laws and the Los Angeles lost and now is repairing the sidewalks !!
Here in Vegas, we (public works) build and repair the sidewalks. We don't charge homeowners or businesses. They pay taxes already, we are paid by those taxes. We have special sidewalk crews that tear out and re-pour sidewalks FAST because that's all they do. Yes, I work for public works.
@@TheBandit7613 that is the way it supposed to be.
Landfill Build. Nuff said
Sink holes or is it due to the earthquakes
kind of like walking in Buenos Aires Argentina. Hiking boots and the need to watch every step. Florida has unmarked holes in middle of side walk, like an open man hole. BAD.
1:37 -- mask not covering nose. Why wear one at all?
I swear its like we are watching 2012, but updated to 2021
You have to question anyone who buys a home built on an old landfill.
WATCH - YOUR - STEP . . in Mission Bay . .
Hey neighbors, nature is whispering to you... Better listen up .
Why are we expected to pay for public sidewalks since, by definition, they’re PUBLIC?
if they are not even trying to fix it, that means its un-fixable. They probably think that by the time it collapse, most of the responsible persons are either very old or pass away so they won't care much. Fixing may cost as much as building a new one. That means they were not going to.
I thought sidewalks were public and maintained by the city, and not private.
If you think that is something. Look at the sidewalks in Mexico City.
Imagine spending $1,000,000+ for a condo in a brand new neighborhood, then the sidewalks start sinking, and the city government (for which you’re paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in property taxes) doesn’t do anything 😂🤣.
And then the SAME city residents keep voting for more Democrats!! 🤣🤣
Republicans would just not have sidewalks at all. They believe you should just drive everywhere.
@@CityLifeinAmerica Lmao, imagine thinking the only two parties are Democrats and Republicans 😂.
Also, it’s all about property rights. If the city owns the sidewalks and roads, then they need to be responsible. If the city wants to sell the roads/sidewalks to the building owners, then the building owners become responsible. Pretty simple, except the corrupt government officials can’t even understand this which is why it’s stuck in limbo. The government wants taxes, but they don’t want to be responsible for fixing the issue.
i'm on the hook for my sidewalks in ohio, too, so i doubt it's just a backwards liberal traitor's 'thought' process, more like it's systemic corruption of government responsibility because it's a pure expense they can force onto the homeowner.
@@manlymcstud8588 very smart answer sometimes ppl get too caught up on the Dem/Rep thing. Both side has good and bad qualities. You’re 100% right tho about the systemic problem
@@jayyoung778 without trying to sound like a moderate, i believe you have to admit to faults of both sides. you also have to do your research, actual research and not just from sources that tell you want you want to hear.
that said, right now i can't find a single redeeming quality the liberals have going for them. the old school democrats seem downright conservative by comparison, and it pains me to see the GOP turning into that.
well, the one thing that never changes is it's still about money, control, and power. were it in my power to do so, i would require all elected officials right down to write-in candidates for city council to take a psychology test to weed out psychopathic and sociopathic personalities.
neither side wants term limits, neither wants to change the laws making it illegal to use the same old methods of wealth-building that would land you and i prison, neither wants stiff mandatory jail time for corruption.
both sides seems to make two kinds of laws: 1) those that suits them personally, and 2) those that don't affect them at all.
Sidewalks are sinking so are the homes & buildings.
The ground is not selective where it sinks only sidewalks and not the ground around please.....
Seems like the city could be eating the cost of researching a longterm solution, while the property owners pay for the prescribed repairs.
Oh, my bad, this is California. Fine the business owners instead, starting with the smaller ones.
How about coming and going to the hospital?
NEWSOM IS NOT going TO HAVE THE CITY TO GIVE UP MONEY, WHY SHOULD THE BUSINESS OWNERS HAVE TO FIX THE SIDEWALKS THEY DIDN'T PUT THEM THERE?