You haven't mentioned blade ward which is outstanding option for EK sice you're unlikely to concentrate on any other spell, it will propably last for the entire fight with your proficiency in con saves and only uses up one of your attacks to cast
For 1st level spells find famiar is definitely a highlight especially now that EK can cast it as a ritual and don't waste their precious slots on it. Same goes for all the many ritual spells on wizard spell list.
@@2ndlevelfighterBlade Ward is most effective defense at high levels. It's simple math. When other spells become useless to cast because strong enemies simply do not sense your savingthrow difficulty - 50% will always work against physical attacks. Is where something I don't know about this new 5.5e or you just ignore the only spell that always worked for this subclass?
Honestly I loved playing a 7EK 8 divination wizard in a one shot. Felt really smooth in combat. Was effectively a half caster, and totally was vibing since I built him as this tanky storm warrior.
If you're going to take meta magic take the new version of twinned spell, but you want this later when you have your Eldritch strike and your improved war magic if you go thr two weapon fighting route and you hit two opponents, you than cast tashas mind whip which targets int which is usually a weak save now they are getting disadvantage on a weak save and you can twin it targeting the two opponents you get gave disadvantage on a save to, you're also going to want to pick up spell sniper for this build
Boomimg blade would pair really well with the artillerists force ballista which pushes enemies so theyre forced to move to reengage. But you could also just get a push weapon
EK was always good, and just got a nice tune-up with 2024. The Shield spell alone is a solid boost over base fighter. One thing you didnt mention was combining Shillelagh and True Strike. Your humble stick can turn into a real beater with both cantrips scaling AND all of the basic Fighter goodness. If you take the Guide background at creation, as a means of gaining the Shillelagh cantrip, you might as well grab Guidance too, for that out of combat goodness. Since the Wizard spell list notably lacks healing magic, Healing Word would be an extremely smart choice for your 1st level pick. At this point, even right at level 3, youve built a lot of utility into a "basic fighter." Two minor changes worth noting are the removal of the EK's spell restrictions, and the fact that ritual spells can be cast by anyone. Given your limited spell slots, focusing mostly on rituals will give you a bit more mileage than the 2014 EK.
I've thought of similar idea; being a EK Fighter that beat up people with stick, but the result I got was it sadly being inefficient(close to impractical) due to the spellcasting rule. Shillelagh being a Druid spell even if you gain it from Magic Initiate, making it impossible to cast without a Spellcasting Focus. Which for Druid, being the Druidic Focus, already has conflict with EK Knight using Arcane Focus. Another method is using Component Pouch, while that is possible, it'd still require you to have at least a free hand. For Fighter or Martial in general, not using that free hand for holding a shield or another weapon is quite a loss I'd say. That's from what I've gathered when I had the idea. What do you think?
@@nocoarto You can't use a Druidic Focus unless you have at least a level in druid anyway. Every class that uses a focus has a feature called "X Focus". For Druid, that is Druidic Focus. Your character does not have the knowledge of how to use a druidic focus without that feature. You can, however, use mistletoe in a free hand to cast Shillelagh, and keep in mind drawing a weapon as part of an attack is free now rather than costing your object interaction so in combat you can cast Shillelagh with your hand free to use the mistletoe component, then draw your weapon for free to attack with Shillelagh. Keep in mind you can't use Extra Attack with True Strike except as a replacement for one attack with a Cantrip.
@@floofzykitty5072 I might forgot to mention about not being able to use Druidic Focus unless you were a Druid or Ranger, or alternatively- being a Nature Domain Cleric. And I definitely miss that last part, thanks a lot for mentioning it! Though, it's still too cumbersome for me to consider playing it in a campaign.
@nocoarto I'd forgotten about those rules as I've never played at a table that tracks that stuff. You're right though. Unsure if it would meet the requirements, but if you began your turn with a shield and an empty hand you could BA cast Shillelagh. Since no slot was consumed that would leave the door open to draw the club/staff and attack. Since the EK can cast 1 cantrip w the attack action, True Strike is open now.
@@ChristnThmsdoesn’t work unfortunately because the spell requires you to hold the staff as well. Only option is to not hold the shield but that isn’t free to equip so you’d waste your whole first turn setting it up. Only option as I can see is if DM allows you to have the handle of the staff wrapped in mistletoe so you can “hold” the M component without a free hand
The fact that Eldritch Knights have multiple dead levels past level 3 and are still in contention for best subclass is kinda nuts. Magic is so good that even a drip feed elevates the Fighter to a whole new level. I think the most interesting way to play it is as a Duel Wielder but Great Weapon Master is probably better overall (assuming you aren’t trying to Frankenstein the two together). The S&S build is a cute gimmick but I don’t actually think it’s any good. The feats that Fighters want are going to boost their physical stats so trying to force Intelligence to be your primary ability is just awkward. Not to mention, Fighters are the game’s premier Feat Enthusiasts, they can easily afford to be a little MAD. If you want to multi-class an Eldritch Knight then I think 3 levels of Thief Rogue would be a solid choice. With the Thief’s fast hands you can use your bonus action to cast a Spell through a scroll. This could be an extra use of a blade cantrip or something more impactful depending on the situation and your campaign. This build eats consumables like candy so it won’t work at every table but when it’s good it’s insane.
I have no issue of combining 2 cantrip substitution classes together it will cost from doing anything other then upcasting your spells for spell slots 8 and 9 because known spell come from the class. Also if sorcerer can quicken a leveled or cantrip spell and a cantrip at level 3 I don't see an issue of a level 7/6 doing it
Not sure if it's RAI, but by RAW this would work especially well with a multi-save save-or-suck spell like Hold Person. Obviously, it will give disadvantage on the initial casting. Followup saves should be at disadvantage too though, as the spell was most assuredly cast before your next turn (being cast on a previous turn). Now, this would only work on spells the EK cast. But that still makes a couple control spells more valuable.
The description says “that creature has Disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn” the key words being The Next, so would only work for the initial casting, not subsequent saves.
@Fireswiper you're inserting both words and assuming intent. It simply says the next saving throw on a spell cast before the end of your next turn. Nothing excluding followup saves, as long as the time requirement is met and you're continuing to hit the target.
@@ChristnThms it's pretty dubious if Eldritch Strike works on the subsequent saves for a spell like Hold Person. It definitely does not work as an automatic disadvantage to all saves, because the feature states it works only on your *next* save. That said, it might be possible that it works if you manage to continuesely hit them afterwards. I say might, because while the feature says "you cast", it is unclear to me if it refers to merely the initial casting or if it refers to spells casted by you aka spell effects you are the owner of. I would harbor a guess that it's the former interpretation that's correct, but a guess is an absence of confidence.
@BlazeLycan I agree. I think it was probably INTENDED to only work on the initial casting, which would make it of only moderate value. The wording leaves a gap, though, and the stretch interpretation would raise the value significantly enough to be worth a talk w the DM. Hold Person would really be the spell you'd be fishing for, and you should tell the DM that to be fair.
A 3 lvl dip into thief could be pretty valuable if we want to make the 10th lvl feature work well. (On a gestalt campaign this is nuts and if we can have more classes than just 2 artificer or wizard are obvious choices, although some cleric or druid subclasses can be pretty sexy too. Not to mention warlock and/or sorcerer.)
Sentinel with mirror image might be a good combo on this build. I've been trying to figure out what class to build this around. Not sure if this is the best choice.
Bladesinger is still the better EK. You lose extra attack at 11 but the higher spell levels more than compensate. If you want to do the EK path, Sentinel can be paired with a few different spells (or items if your DM is generous 😅). Sentinel + Crusher + weapon mastery + Booming Blade = bad day for the NPC. Pushed back, knocked prone, 1/2 movement to stand, take damage if they re-engage. Then thrown on defensive spell 😅
When I originally saw the modifications to the Eldritch Knight I was very happy. The level 7 ability was a long time coming, considering the Bladesinger had been doing it for years. But I have a serious question: Are booming blade and green flame blade aloud? They're not in the new player's handbook, which makes me worried that they're not aloud. But given that the d&d 2024 doesn't seem to be an entirely separate edition and is supposed to be compatible with other books, are we aloud to take spells from other books from 5th edition? I really hope we are. The eldritch knight might finally be good. Considering how poorly the other subclasses scale, the eldritch knight could be really good if it's aloud to take the right cantrips.
It's all the same edition. But backwards compatibility is a weird subject and the designers haven't given us the best explanation yet. Personally, I like to allow everything, unless it got replaced with something that has the same name.
Some tables only allow 2024 content. Others, as the OP stated, is supposed to be “backwards compatible.” If your the DM, it is your call. Otherwise ask the DM how he’s ruling it.
@@shapshane8241 it doesn't. I checked it on DNDBeyond; it scales like normal. **Edit: Nvm I was wrong. I misread the description. While it does mention 4th level or higher, the same text later reads that it scales every 2 levels above 3rd. My mistake**
I don’t think you can dual wield using Shillelagh per the spell. I think it’s a top tier subclass for the fighter. I’ve build several, and they work well.
Improved war magic you said weak, i disagree: Liv 18 i assume you have "haste" cast. Attack with haste attack , then if humanoid cast Hold person. Liv 18 i assume you have at last 6 attack total (nick, 3 atk fighter, haste and bonus atk) that means 3 crits (1 with cantrip). And not considering action surge. If not humanoid cast web , full adv, and the enemy shoud loose his action to escape. You could do that even without haste, just with reaction PAM before or warcaster hit.
I would not recommend casting Hold person (a concentration spell) when you are already concentrating on Haste, because of the whole "incapacitated" thing 🙂 If someone else casted that Haste on you, sure, why not 👍
You wouldn't be able to do that anyway due to new Haste restrictions on actions you can use. New Haste says: "That action can be used to take only the Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Utilize action."
@@majormlbfan70 EK's War Magic allows them to replace one attack with a Cantrip as part of the Attack Action. It can be e debate regarding which one is more specific. I'm inclined to believe it is War Magic that's more specific.
nice summary, just a few things: - you cannot cast the cantrips with Haste's additional attack, haste specifically enumerates which actions you can do and Magic action is not among them - worth mentioning that Magic weapon does not require concentration anymore - Spirit shroud scales every two levels, so upcasting to 4th does nothing, Minor elementals are better 4th level option - cannot Shillelagh two weapons: "the spell ends early if you cast it again" - worth mentioning that Shadow-touched can give you Wrathful smite now, because it became a Necromancy spell
Casting a cantrip can be done using the attack action, not magic, with the level 7 War Magic ability. Haste gives you another attack action that only has one attack. You replace that one attack during the attack action with a cantrip.
Upon closer reading of War magic, I think you are right after all and haste attack can be replaced with a cantrip. For some reason I thought you have to make an attack first, but it just says "replace one attack".
@@palid11 great clarifications, although you got 2 things wrong. 1) the haste thing which was already amended. 2) Spirit Shroud does scale like normal spells. 4th level is an upcast of value, although not sure it competes with the alternatives. **Edit: Nvm I was wrong about Spirit Shroud, I misread the description. While it does say 4th level or higher, it later says every 2 slots above 3rd.**
@@BlazeLycan yeah, Spirit Shroud upcast description is a bit confusing at first glance, so I don't blame you 🙂 Upon closer read, I think "every 2 slots above 3rd" is pretty unambiguous though. Which is also why I like the Wizard multiclass idea - to get to that 5th level. I'm ignoring Minor elementals for now though, since they are so crazy they are bound to be banned by DM and/or get nerfed soon - we'll see how the Spirit shroud will compare afterwards ...
I disagree regarding your assessment of Eldritch Strike as being weak. The math says it's actually stronger than a Full Caster. Let's compare a Wizard to an Eldritch Knight. For this comparison, they are both level 10 and they're casting a spell that their enemy has a 50% chance of failing if they maxed out their spellcasting stat. We'll assume Point Buy, and that both used their ASI's to increase their class' primary stat (Int for Wizard, Str/Dex for EK) - Wizard(20 Int) Spell Save DC = 17 (8 + PB 4 + Int 5). The enemy has a 1d20+6 DC 17 = 50% chance to fail. - EK (14 Int) Spell Save DC = 14 (8 + PB 4 + Int 2). The enemy has a (1d20
Your math is spot on. I still think it's weak. At level 10, it feels *bad* to be using my action to cast a single 2nd level spell... like the full casters were doing back at level 3. Cool, I can get off a competent "Hold Person". My Wizard buddy could have used their action to upcast a 5th level "Hold Person" against *four* opponents. It's a nice option to have, but "stronger than a Full Caster" feels like a stretch. I might favor using Eldritch Strike to set up a saving throw cantrip with War Magic. Toll the Dead comes to mind... but Frostbite and Mind Sliver might also have a place.
You haven't mentioned blade ward which is outstanding option for EK sice you're unlikely to concentrate on any other spell, it will propably last for the entire fight with your proficiency in con saves and only uses up one of your attacks to cast
For 1st level spells find famiar is definitely a highlight especially now that EK can cast it as a ritual and don't waste their precious slots on it. Same goes for all the many ritual spells on wizard spell list.
Definitely a decent choice until you get your stronger concentration spells at higher levels!
This is the best option before getting haste, which happens very late
@@2ndlevelfighterBlade Ward is most effective defense at high levels. It's simple math. When other spells become useless to cast because strong enemies simply do not sense your savingthrow difficulty - 50% will always work against physical attacks. Is where something I don't know about this new 5.5e or you just ignore the only spell that always worked for this subclass?
@@whydidiwatchthis5174 It now subtracts 1d4 from attack rolls made against you. Believe me, I was very upset when I saw that.
Honestly I loved playing a 7EK 8 divination wizard in a one shot. Felt really smooth in combat. Was effectively a half caster, and totally was vibing since I built him as this tanky storm warrior.
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If you're going to take meta magic take the new version of twinned spell, but you want this later when you have your Eldritch strike and your improved war magic if you go thr two weapon fighting route and you hit two opponents, you than cast tashas mind whip which targets int which is usually a weak save now they are getting disadvantage on a weak save and you can twin it targeting the two opponents you get gave disadvantage on a save to, you're also going to want to pick up spell sniper for this build
Boomimg blade would pair really well with the artillerists force ballista which pushes enemies so theyre forced to move to reengage. But you could also just get a push weapon
The flamethrower would definately help to make the wk feel more magicy
Why not take both!
At Fighter 9, Tactical Master can make any weapon a push weapon.
Booming Blade only does the secondary damage to WILLING movements, alas...
EK was always good, and just got a nice tune-up with 2024. The Shield spell alone is a solid boost over base fighter.
One thing you didnt mention was combining Shillelagh and True Strike. Your humble stick can turn into a real beater with both cantrips scaling AND all of the basic Fighter goodness.
If you take the Guide background at creation, as a means of gaining the Shillelagh cantrip, you might as well grab Guidance too, for that out of combat goodness. Since the Wizard spell list notably lacks healing magic, Healing Word would be an extremely smart choice for your 1st level pick. At this point, even right at level 3, youve built a lot of utility into a "basic fighter."
Two minor changes worth noting are the removal of the EK's spell restrictions, and the fact that ritual spells can be cast by anyone. Given your limited spell slots, focusing mostly on rituals will give you a bit more mileage than the 2014 EK.
I've thought of similar idea; being a EK Fighter that beat up people with stick, but the result I got was it sadly being inefficient(close to impractical) due to the spellcasting rule.
Shillelagh being a Druid spell even if you gain it from Magic Initiate, making it impossible to cast without a Spellcasting Focus. Which for Druid, being the Druidic Focus, already has conflict with EK Knight using Arcane Focus.
Another method is using Component Pouch, while that is possible, it'd still require you to have at least a free hand. For Fighter or Martial in general, not using that free hand for holding a shield or another weapon is quite a loss I'd say.
That's from what I've gathered when I had the idea. What do you think?
@@nocoarto You can't use a Druidic Focus unless you have at least a level in druid anyway. Every class that uses a focus has a feature called "X Focus". For Druid, that is Druidic Focus. Your character does not have the knowledge of how to use a druidic focus without that feature. You can, however, use mistletoe in a free hand to cast Shillelagh, and keep in mind drawing a weapon as part of an attack is free now rather than costing your object interaction so in combat you can cast Shillelagh with your hand free to use the mistletoe component, then draw your weapon for free to attack with Shillelagh. Keep in mind you can't use Extra Attack with True Strike except as a replacement for one attack with a Cantrip.
@@floofzykitty5072 I might forgot to mention about not being able to use Druidic Focus unless you were a Druid or Ranger, or alternatively- being a Nature Domain Cleric.
And I definitely miss that last part, thanks a lot for mentioning it! Though, it's still too cumbersome for me to consider playing it in a campaign.
@nocoarto I'd forgotten about those rules as I've never played at a table that tracks that stuff.
You're right though.
Unsure if it would meet the requirements, but if you began your turn with a shield and an empty hand you could BA cast Shillelagh. Since no slot was consumed that would leave the door open to draw the club/staff and attack. Since the EK can cast 1 cantrip w the attack action, True Strike is open now.
@@ChristnThmsdoesn’t work unfortunately because the spell requires you to hold the staff as well. Only option is to not hold the shield but that isn’t free to equip so you’d waste your whole first turn setting it up. Only option as I can see is if DM allows you to have the handle of the staff wrapped in mistletoe so you can “hold” the M component without a free hand
The fact that Eldritch Knights have multiple dead levels past level 3 and are still in contention for best subclass is kinda nuts. Magic is so good that even a drip feed elevates the Fighter to a whole new level.
I think the most interesting way to play it is as a Duel Wielder but Great Weapon Master is probably better overall (assuming you aren’t trying to Frankenstein the two together).
The S&S build is a cute gimmick but I don’t actually think it’s any good. The feats that Fighters want are going to boost their physical stats so trying to force Intelligence to be your primary ability is just awkward. Not to mention, Fighters are the game’s premier Feat Enthusiasts, they can easily afford to be a little MAD.
If you want to multi-class an Eldritch Knight then I think 3 levels of Thief Rogue would be a solid choice. With the Thief’s fast hands you can use your bonus action to cast a Spell through a scroll. This could be an extra use of a blade cantrip or something more impactful depending on the situation and your campaign. This build eats consumables like candy so it won’t work at every table but when it’s good it’s insane.
I have no issue of combining 2 cantrip substitution classes together it will cost from doing anything other then upcasting your spells for spell slots 8 and 9 because known spell come from the class. Also if sorcerer can quicken a leveled or cantrip spell and a cantrip
at level 3 I don't see an issue of a level 7/6 doing it
Not sure if it's RAI, but by RAW this would work especially well with a multi-save save-or-suck spell like Hold Person. Obviously, it will give disadvantage on the initial casting. Followup saves should be at disadvantage too though, as the spell was most assuredly cast before your next turn (being cast on a previous turn). Now, this would only work on spells the EK cast. But that still makes a couple control spells more valuable.
The description says “that creature has Disadvantage on the next saving throw it makes against a spell you cast before the end of your next turn” the key words being The Next, so would only work for the initial casting, not subsequent saves.
@Fireswiper you're inserting both words and assuming intent. It simply says the next saving throw on a spell cast before the end of your next turn. Nothing excluding followup saves, as long as the time requirement is met and you're continuing to hit the target.
@@ChristnThms it's pretty dubious if Eldritch Strike works on the subsequent saves for a spell like Hold Person.
It definitely does not work as an automatic disadvantage to all saves, because the feature states it works only on your *next* save.
That said, it might be possible that it works if you manage to continuesely hit them afterwards. I say might, because while the feature says "you cast", it is unclear to me if it refers to merely the initial casting or if it refers to spells casted by you aka spell effects you are the owner of.
I would harbor a guess that it's the former interpretation that's correct, but a guess is an absence of confidence.
@BlazeLycan I agree. I think it was probably INTENDED to only work on the initial casting, which would make it of only moderate value. The wording leaves a gap, though, and the stretch interpretation would raise the value significantly enough to be worth a talk w the DM. Hold Person would really be the spell you'd be fishing for, and you should tell the DM that to be fair.
Find Familiar + Dragon's Breath (on your familiar) is some pretty decent tech. Not unique to EKs, but not usually available to martials.
With backwards compatibility, you could take eldritch adept for POTC so now it can be invisible with hp and still do the same strategy. 😜
A 3 lvl dip into thief could be pretty valuable if we want to make the 10th lvl feature work well. (On a gestalt campaign this is nuts and if we can have more classes than just 2 artificer or wizard are obvious choices, although some cleric or druid subclasses can be pretty sexy too. Not to mention warlock and/or sorcerer.)
Sentinel with mirror image might be a good combo on this build. I've been trying to figure out what class to build this around. Not sure if this is the best choice.
Bladesinger is still the better EK. You lose extra attack at 11 but the higher spell levels more than compensate.
If you want to do the EK path, Sentinel can be paired with a few different spells (or items if your DM is generous 😅). Sentinel + Crusher + weapon mastery + Booming Blade = bad day for the NPC. Pushed back, knocked prone, 1/2 movement to stand, take damage if they re-engage. Then thrown on defensive spell 😅
Your screen name is so cool
True strike and shillelagh allpws you to use only Int as your main stat. So, INT and dex fightet with medium armor is fully viable
When I originally saw the modifications to the Eldritch Knight I was very happy. The level 7 ability was a long time coming, considering the Bladesinger had been doing it for years. But I have a serious question: Are booming blade and green flame blade aloud? They're not in the new player's handbook, which makes me worried that they're not aloud. But given that the d&d 2024 doesn't seem to be an entirely separate edition and is supposed to be compatible with other books, are we aloud to take spells from other books from 5th edition? I really hope we are. The eldritch knight might finally be good. Considering how poorly the other subclasses scale, the eldritch knight could be really good if it's aloud to take the right cantrips.
It's all the same edition. But backwards compatibility is a weird subject and the designers haven't given us the best explanation yet. Personally, I like to allow everything, unless it got replaced with something that has the same name.
Some tables only allow 2024 content. Others, as the OP stated, is supposed to be “backwards compatible.” If your the DM, it is your call. Otherwise ask the DM how he’s ruling it.
I'm a bit lost. many of these spells aren't listed in the Player's Handbook.
Older supplement books. They are probably still allowed. (Ask your DM)
eldritch knight gets a lot of mileage out of the new magic weapons and armor that can cast spells.
11:21 but you cant upcast spirit shroud to deal extra damage as it scales every 2 levels, ie level 5, and you only have 4th level slots.
@@shapshane8241 it doesn't. I checked it on DNDBeyond; it scales like normal.
**Edit: Nvm I was wrong. I misread the description. While it does mention 4th level or higher, the same text later reads that it scales every 2 levels above 3rd. My mistake**
Oh dear, I messed that one up! Good catch.
I don’t think you can dual wield using Shillelagh per the spell.
I think it’s a top tier subclass for the fighter.
I’ve build several, and they work well.
Yep, missed that one completely. Sadly.
Ruby of the war mage is a must have.
Improved war magic you said weak, i disagree:
Liv 18 i assume you have "haste" cast.
Attack with haste attack , then if humanoid cast Hold person.
Liv 18 i assume you have at last 6 attack total (nick, 3 atk fighter, haste and bonus atk) that means 3 crits (1 with cantrip). And not considering action surge.
If not humanoid cast web , full adv, and the enemy shoud loose his action to escape.
You could do that even without haste, just with reaction PAM before or warcaster hit.
It will definitely see plenty use. I might be biased cos of my disappointment!
I would not recommend casting Hold person (a concentration spell) when you are already concentrating on Haste, because of the whole "incapacitated" thing 🙂
If someone else casted that Haste on you, sure, why not 👍
You wouldn't be able to do that anyway due to new Haste restrictions on actions you can use.
New Haste says: "That action can be used to take only the Attack (one attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Utilize action."
Haste doesnt work like you think it does
It gives you an extra attack but it limits you specifically to a weapon attack
@@majormlbfan70 EK's War Magic allows them to replace one attack with a Cantrip as part of the Attack Action.
It can be e debate regarding which one is more specific. I'm inclined to believe it is War Magic that's more specific.
nice summary, just a few things:
- you cannot cast the cantrips with Haste's additional attack, haste specifically enumerates which actions you can do and Magic action is not among them
- worth mentioning that Magic weapon does not require concentration anymore
- Spirit shroud scales every two levels, so upcasting to 4th does nothing, Minor elementals are better 4th level option
- cannot Shillelagh two weapons: "the spell ends early if you cast it again"
- worth mentioning that Shadow-touched can give you Wrathful smite now, because it became a Necromancy spell
Casting a cantrip can be done using the attack action, not magic, with the level 7 War Magic ability. Haste gives you another attack action that only has one attack. You replace that one attack during the attack action with a cantrip.
Great clarifications! The war magic feature might be more specific than the haste spell, but that's definitely debatable.
Upon closer reading of War magic, I think you are right after all and haste attack can be replaced with a cantrip. For some reason I thought you have to make an attack first, but it just says "replace one attack".
@@palid11 great clarifications, although you got 2 things wrong.
1) the haste thing which was already amended.
2) Spirit Shroud does scale like normal spells. 4th level is an upcast of value, although not sure it competes with the alternatives.
**Edit: Nvm I was wrong about Spirit Shroud, I misread the description. While it does say 4th level or higher, it later says every 2 slots above 3rd.**
@@BlazeLycan yeah, Spirit Shroud upcast description is a bit confusing at first glance, so I don't blame you 🙂
Upon closer read, I think "every 2 slots above 3rd" is pretty unambiguous though.
Which is also why I like the Wizard multiclass idea - to get to that 5th level.
I'm ignoring Minor elementals for now though, since they are so crazy they are bound to be banned by DM and/or get nerfed soon - we'll see how the Spirit shroud will compare afterwards ...
I disagree regarding your assessment of Eldritch Strike as being weak. The math says it's actually stronger than a Full Caster.
Let's compare a Wizard to an Eldritch Knight.
For this comparison, they are both level 10 and they're casting a spell that their enemy has a 50% chance of failing if they maxed out their spellcasting stat.
We'll assume Point Buy, and that both used their ASI's to increase their class' primary stat (Int for Wizard, Str/Dex for EK)
- Wizard(20 Int) Spell Save DC = 17 (8 + PB 4 + Int 5). The enemy has a 1d20+6 DC 17 = 50% chance to fail.
- EK (14 Int) Spell Save DC = 14 (8 + PB 4 + Int 2). The enemy has a (1d20
Your math is spot on.
I still think it's weak. At level 10, it feels *bad* to be using my action to cast a single 2nd level spell... like the full casters were doing back at level 3. Cool, I can get off a competent "Hold Person". My Wizard buddy could have used their action to upcast a 5th level "Hold Person" against *four* opponents.
It's a nice option to have, but "stronger than a Full Caster" feels like a stretch.
I might favor using Eldritch Strike to set up a saving throw cantrip with War Magic. Toll the Dead comes to mind... but Frostbite and Mind Sliver might also have a place.