Worksharp Ken Onion Blade Grinding Attachment Sharpening a Wusthof Classic Ikon 8” (Edges w/bite)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2024
- I don’t recommend belt systems for sharpening high need cutlery but the Ken onion edition worksharp with blade grinding attachment can be great for reprofiling edges.
It can be difficult to come up with a totally deburred edge that still has bite to it. A technique to deburr and it over polish the edge is covered while working through issues.
Progression:
X65
X22
X5
Wood with 3um CBN paste
Nonaffiliated link: www.worksharpt...
Hello ftom the deep north of Canada and thx for your video! I foumd out rhat with the grinder if you want to get rid of the burh comlelty i keep going finer belt grid til the strop belt 5 passes each sides and always finish with no burh at all left and not only great quality of the blade but keeps his sharpeness extremely sharp a long time before sharpening again! After each sharp i also do 3 4 strop passes on the block!!! For the rest for a while before sharpening again i use a ceramic rod to keep it sharp and edgy! U are the pro here but i have been using worksharp grinder for 2 years now and this is my way of working with this great machine! Thx again God Bless Frank from thr north!
Thanks for a great video. To get a more accurate angle I attach a round spirit level that is sold on Amazon to the knife and while the bubble on the target at the center the knife will stay level with the platform. This reduces the number of times that i have to put the knife on the platform each time.
That makes a lot of sense! Very good tip!
I use the Ken Onion with great results. I don't use the attachment. As needed, I progress through the belts from 220, 800, 1000, 1200, and 5000 for stopping. I get a very usable edge. I'm not after the same edge as you do. My knives are used hard each day. Using the 800, 1200, 5000 to renew the edge!!
It’s definitely great for getting a consistent and quick usable edge! That’s really what makes it a great system and a person can get an creative as they want with it too like myself. So versatile in that way!
I got the attacjement 8 months ago and i am telling you i have a great time free handling small and big knives! Right now the only time i dont use the attachement it is with Chief Kitchen knives a bit expensive not having enough confident in me yet! But that was the best investement i did with the Ken Onion Edition!
If the edge isnt hot, indont see how the steel could soften
The trouble is the edge apex has an extremely small cross section. Does not take much to heat up less than a hairs width of steel and you can’t tell by touch because there isn’t enough thermal energy store to be felt by your fingers.
If you can tell by touch, that edge is for sure toast. Not the whole blade though.
Great video . Can you show how you sharpen scissors on this thing? Thank you
Sorry man I haven’t experimented with scissors on it at all. I’ve done a few by hand but really not an expert there
Couldn’t you use a ceramic honing rod to get rid of the burr. Then Strope.
That’s exactly how I maintain my German knives. The ceramic would still leave burr that is generally smaller and less fragile than what the belts give. That said, when I follow up with the strop it definitely cleans up the edge but does seem to leave a tiny foil burr once again.
Long story short. It’s a totally acceptable edge but still not perfect due to residual foil burr.
That steel probably can’t hold 15 or 16 for long. I would probably go with 18 or 20 on that blade…
You’re right. 17dps is about the sweet spot for my usage with this knife
Cool…thanks for doing the video!
Thanks for the vid. I don't have the stiff belts, so I try to sharpen as close to the top roller as possible to get a more flat bevel. I also do my best to go from a burr to knocking it off with as few strokes as possible. Lately I've been jumping from the x22 straight to fabric honing. You're right it's easy to overpolish. And I never run it above half speed.
Appreciate you watching! You know I haven’t messed with big grit jumps on it yet so know you’ve really peaked my curiosity! I keep it at the lowest speed always just for piece of mind.
So, I've been trying for over a year to find a way to sharpen my knives. I've tried by hand, ruined my knife, gave that up. Lansky 2 rod box with ok results. Landsky angle rod and stone kit, got no results. I just purchased ken onion sharpmaker and got cutting paper results, but i have already scratched one of my knives scales trying to get the entire blade. Now I'm debating to buy this attachment? I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing? I seem to never be able to get that burr that i can feel... Is this why I can't get razor edges? Or is it the angles? Btw my knives are s30v cpm3v,D2,Aus10.. I did get a burr on my cheap kitchen victorinox paring knife. At this rate it would be cheaper to just buy new knives when they dull. 😆🤯
Sorry you’re struggling. I hate to say it but yes you’re missing something. If you do not form a burr, the knife will not get sharp especially for a beginner.
Find your angle and keep sharpening away until you form a burr. With the ken onion you have go:
1) 10 strokes on 1 side with coarse belt then feel for a burr, not there.
2) 10 strokes on other side with coarse belt then feel for a burr, not there.
3) 10 strokes on first side with coarse belt then feel for a burr, it’s there.
4) 10 strokes on second side with coarse belt then feel for a burr, it’s there.
5) move onto finer belts progressively while alternating sides as appropriate to finish.
Very attractive kitchen knife
Feels just as good as it looks!
@@EngineersPerspective701 I believe that it’s a good system this though I legit have loads of tools I’ve brought back to life
What's the negative to over polishing? Seems polishing is the goal.?.
Polish to some degree yes. But an “over polished” edge will have no bite. Can shave hair but not cut through tomato skin. Just as bad as a dull blade in my book
Where can I find those belts Do you have a link?Thanks
They’re on the worksharp website. Just select the stiff kit from the graphic. Link below.
www.worksharptools.com/shop/abrasives-accessories/abrasives/abrasives-bga/
I understand your process, however, you are overthinking the process. I use the system to any edge I desire!
Overthinking for most practical people for sure! But there is definitely notable differences in performance depending on how deep a guy wants to get into it
Obviously the limit depends on the particular steel, but I don't believe you are doing any harm to any steel's heat treat when it's only warm to the touch. Most manufacturers (even custom blade smiths) produce their factory grinds on a belt or grinding stone.
So I actually did a full blown edge retention test on s30v comparing stones to this system. First video of that series came out yesterday. Won’t giveaway the results here but I agree that for the Worksharp it’s more complicated than it will/won’t!
In terms of factory grinds, it’s an undisputed fact that the heat from the non-water cooled belts/grinders sharpening substantially effects edge retention. It is not uncommon to double edge retention by hand sharpening away the “burnt” steel.
Kknivesswitzerland did a test where his friend ground a blade with no sparks and kept it “cool to the touch” and then hardness tested it. It had lost up to 10HRc in some places despite them being very careful. Just because people do something, doesn’t make it a good idea. I have the Instagram post screenshots of you’d ever like the see them just let me know!
@@EngineersPerspective701 Oh interesting! I wonder if he performed the same testing on the hand-sharpened blades to make sure the variability wasn't simply endemic to the knives he was testing? In any case, I'll be very interested to see the results of your test.
Personally I love the Work Sharp Grinder for its versatility and speed. I've sharpened lawn mower blades and machetes on it, as well as EDC and kitchen knives. That said, the best I can do with on the BESS tester is around 160g, whereas I can reliably get below 100g with the KME. But the KME can be slooow. Waiting on the arrival of my "Beast" plate, so hopefully that will speed things up.
Thanks for the interesting content!
@@BladeLabMiami His test was actually on the main grind of the knife and it saw that much softening! So a little concerning but the size of belt grinder and the belts used make a big difference too. Steel was 12C27 I believe without going back to look.
I actually learned how to freehand just because the KME was so slow! I also struggle to get the results I want on the Worksharp but that's driven me to do A LOT of experimentation! I've developed a method and skill to get X50CrMoV15 of varying hardness to at max 120g BESS and did get S30V to the same sharpness for the upcoming tests.
I also have a video coming out on Nov 1 getting CTS-BD1N at 63HRc to score 83g average. Can get LC200N about the same as well. Not as good bite as a hand edge but still very nice!
@@EngineersPerspective701 Okay, I'm impressed. Any tips for the KO grinder? Are you using the kit belts? I thought about trying the stiff belt pack. I'm already using the top wheel in the close position.
The EDC steels I've worked on with the grinder are s30v, s35vn, D2, and a proprietary "cobalt crystal" steel by Boye Knives, which can get scary sharp and is 100% corrosion proof (and non-magnetic!).
@@BladeLabMiami I was also super blown away by the sub 100g score! I use the stiff belts but I can't say if they are the difference makers or not.
Settings:
1) Closest wheel position like you do.
2) Increase belt tension on the tracking wheel
3) Lowest speed
4) Light pressure but enough where you're consistent.
Technique (This is a lot!):
5) Apex the edge completely on X65 or coarser belt.
6) Minimize number of total passes on belts above X65 (3-5 passes per side)
7) Alternate sides on each pass starting on the belt prior to your X4/X5.
8) Do 5 passes per side alternating on X4/X5 to REALLY weaken burr into thin foil.
9) Pull edge trough soft wood, hard felt 2-3 times.
10) X4/X5 alternating passes checking edge with 3-finger test to feel when it just starts biting again. About 2-3 per side.
11) 12,000 micromesh belt at ~1 degree less angle checking on BESS tester after each pass. If no improvement after 2-3 passes per side then increase angle by 0.5 degrees and try again.
Thanks for the video! If I sharpen a knife on the slowest speed and use very light passes do you think it will still ruin the heat treat along the edge? I use this system but now I’m afraid to because you said it can weaken edge retention. Maybe I’ll just use it to put a 20 degree bevel on my knives so I can sharpen them with my spyderco sharpmaker for all future sharpenings. I recently used the worksharp to put a nice edge on a fairbairn Sykes commando knife and it worked out very well. I used the slowest speed and did many extremely light passes barely touching the belt. It too a long time but I managed to get a hair popping 50 degree inclusive edge which impressed me.
At the end of the day if you’re getting satisfactory results then don’t sweat it! I’d recommend putting a 17-18dps edge and doing a 20dps micro bevel with the sharpmaker. Works much better!
It’s hard to say to the extent it’ll affect the edge retention because it depends on steel and what you’re doing but unfortunately I can almost guarantee it will not be as good as a nice hand or system edge.
Other than potentially burning the edge slightly you can drastically affect edge retention by the type of sharpening. What abrasives, grits, etc.
For example I get 60’ of fine edge retention on S30V with a DMT fine followed by 1um strop. If I finish on a 1200 grit ceramic then it drops to 40’. All cutting cardboard on a 1” section until no longer shaving.
@@EngineersPerspective701 very interesting, you really know your stuff! I really appreciate the good info. I’ll do what you said about the sharpmaker angles. I love my sharpmaker kit and I also have the diamond rods and ultra fine rods. I also have a lansky turn box that can do up to 50 degree inclusive. I have a few different clamp systems but I swear I always end up with super wide bevels towards the tip of my knives. I know it’s because the tips are closer to the spine and all that but the worksharp system is just so fast and easy for me and I always like the looks of my bevels after. Thanks again for the reply!
@@Nick_Gurr80 Really appreciate the kind words!
You sharpen for you so whatever works best! I haven’t made a video on it but IMO the best combo of quick, easy and high end result is using the worksharp to setup knives for the sharpmaker and then stropping to finish the edge and maintain it. I actually really like the edge I get off the medium rods so I use that in a lot of pocket knives.
@@EngineersPerspective701 you’re welcome!
I just finished up a balisong blade I dropped earlier today and chipped the edge all up. Got it 10 times sharper then it was out of the box 😆
I have a friend who shoes horses for a living and he always gives me his left over farriers rasps and I make knives out of them. I have a 2x72 belt grinder, propane forge and a kiln. Been making knives for about 5 years now. I used to put the secondary bevels on with an edge pro but it took forever and a day. Never used the belt grinder to do that because I like to be precise and my hands shake a bit. The worksharp does the job well though. If you ever want to take a look at some of my knives I have a few posted on Instagram. Mantid_knife.co
Haven’t made the company name official yet but I plan to. Might change the name tho. I hope you keep making videos! Very informative :)
Any difference in sharpness if you use the regular attachment instead of free hand?
Not really. Maybe easier to over polish on the regular setup but pretty similar
Is it worth it to get the elite or just the regular one?
I'd love to be able to go this route but my hands are too unsteady. Any advice for inexpensive sharpening that doesn't require steady hands?
Medical condition or don’t trust your hands? I think you’d be amazed what you can teach your hands to do with enough thoughtful practice.
That said the Worksharp Precision Adjust is far and away the best choice for a clamped system. Watch Knifecrazy to learn about using the KME which is super applicable.
@@EngineersPerspective701 medical. Hands shake.
@@ralphb4012 gotcha. I’d say definitely go for the precision adjust and then if you want to upgrade the Wicked Edge or KME
A fellow redditor and I designed a 3D printed 'level riser" with a slide attachment. It really helps people with unsteady hands and such. The files are free. you just need a printer or find someone who can print it for you. look in r/sharpening group for info and files.
@@EngineersPerspective701 The precision adjust systems take much much longer to sharpen and they suck at doing larger longer knives .
Turn up the speed of the belt my man.
Na I’m good. Low and slow is how I roll with the belt systems
Brrrrrrr, seeing the blade 90° against the wood actually makes me cringe...
Cooking must be tough cringing whenever the blade touches the cutting board. If an edge can’t handle this that’s because it’s crap. This sets it up for final cleanup so that it doesn’t die on a cutting board
@@EngineersPerspective701 Not the same at all... Incidentally touching the board over much of the lenght vs deliberately stroking the blade with force over the edge of the wood... You literally proved that doesn't work in THIS very video... Just strop it on the work sharp or any random leather belt... Even a damn towel would work better than this... Lastly, touching the bord is something that happens during use that can't be avoided... Bending all the teeth on the edge over like in the video is something you did in pursuit of IMPROVING the blade... - Having said all of that, I still love your videos!
Sorry for coming on strong, but I still maintain that there is zero difference between this and a cutting board. If you go straight to the strop the burr will continue to be drawn out and the edge will prematurely fail after sharpening. If pulling a fresh edge through wood reduces sharpness of then it is not sharpened correctly.
I've proven in my own sharpening that it is extremely difficult to remove a burr on these soft steels with stropping strokes only on any substraight or system. Lookup the "Knife Deburring" Book, he displays the most effective method I've seen but it takes a lot of equipment and accuracy that most don't have.
The point of drawing through the wood is to mechanically remove/reduce the burr which is successfully done in the video eventually but I feel that pine is NOT super effective but is easily on hand. After the burr is removed/reduced to the best of your abilities then feather in the final edge without drawing out a new burr using minimal strokes (did too many on the paint stirrer in this video IMO). I have other videos that show this same process with BESS testing.
A towel of the proper fabric can be pretty effective as well but a lot of leather products/setups don't really have the right properties I find to remove the burr.
@@EngineersPerspective701 I rewatched it and now I know what you're doing... I have the OG Work Sharp with the narrow Belts that I hold in 1 hand, while holding the knife in the other... So I just freehand sharpen to a "working edge" (toothy) and pull the worst off with a paper towel... Basically with the added precision of the Blade attachment, you're going a little further... Making an edge that is likely more durable than mine!
@@EngineersPerspective701 your draw through the blue block, can you share what that is? I get it’s a burr removal but what’s the material? Thanks.