Great job! I also like playing with algorithm 7, so just sine waves in each operator (no synthesis). On my channel I also have some videos from a couple of years ago, where I present not only the extended mode of the CH3, but also the independent use of each of the CH6 operators in DAC mode. Congratulations once again. I liked your video and if you're curious, the title of my video is "YM2612 CH3 and CH6/PCM Extended Mode". I used MML.
I just checked out the video you mentioned. It seems pretty cool! Outside of XGM demos, I've only seen software mixed PCM channels like that in Toy Story's title theme and credits
@dycedargselderbrother5353 If one wants to do actual FM on the Genesis and needs more than 6 channels, Channel 3 can be split into two 2op channels on par with YM3256 FM channels, but still helpful to make more complex songs. Also Composite Sine Mode existed on YM3526 but actually affected the whole chip, but nonetheless it is technically safe on YM2612 to use it while in 2x2op mode.
Yeah, the tuning is slightly off from the original. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the hardware limitations, since I referenced the notes in the original module while making this cover
@@SpinningSquareWaves I'm *assuming* it involves very careful tuning of the ssgeg timing parameters to bring the envelopes into audio rates and mess with the waveforms in interesting ways, but it feels like that's missing a *lot* of detail
In short... yeah, that's about it 😄 I've done a lot of the tuning ahead of time, in fact I have multiple spreadsheets worth of tuning I've gathered over a long while, but there was also a lot of messing around with the waveforms and their different properties. Here's a somewhat in-depth overview, if you're interested: - both normal saws have a sync effect, meaning that the pitch of the sine wave is more for timbre than anything else - because of their shape and timing, reverse saw is better at purer saw sounds, such as the saw lead, while normal saw is better at softer sounds, such as the bass in this song - triangle doesn't have a sync effect, meaning results are similar to AM synthesis - triangle doesn't like attack < 31. When that is the case, it results in a distorted waveform. - because of those last two, triangle ssg-eg can make for a pretty convincing snare sound - adjusting the ADSR can manipulate how much of the sine wave comes through the envelope. I've mostly only tested this with what I call "max up", where the ADSR tries to keep the sine wave active for as long as possible. In this song, that technique is used for the lower part of the organ sound, one of the arps, and the triangle snare I mentioned earlier. It can also be used for some pretty neat oscillator sync effects That isn't quite everything there is to know about ssg-eg, but those are the more interesting bits used in this song
It doesn’t change the operator waveform! At least not in the same way OPL series chips can. Ssg-eg only repeats the ADSR envelope. With an incredibly short envelope, it repeats fast enough to be an audible pitch. And with proper tuning and some other tricks, that quickly looping envelope can be used to modulate the operation’s sine wave in different ways. In the end though, the operator is still just producing a sine wave
I just realized that I completely misread the second half of your message. You already knew how ssg-eg works. Sorry if I came across as condescending. That's what I get for replying to comments first thing in the morning... Thank you for your kind words!
you _REALLY_ like SSG-EG, don't ya? imagine csm idk what that would do but it'd be cool nice... one channel cover? ik its one channel but since this is 4 seperate operatoes, can we call this a 4 operator cover? idk cool cover anyways
I do 😁 I don't think CSM would do too much hear that ssg-eg can't already do by itself. In my mind, CSM is just a less flexible ssg-eg that has better/easier tuning Yeah, it's technically one channel, even if it's the better of the six. I'm tempted to try a 1 operator song, but we'll see if that pans out 😄 Thank you!
WOW so you are pretty much just using one out of 6 channels! Good work! Does that mean that you can write anything using these simple tomes to use: 6x4=24 full polyphony? If so, is it the same for YM3812 so can produce 9x2=18 different sounds?
Almost, yes! It’s important to note that channel 3 has a special mode that allows independent frequency control of the 4 operators. The other technique, ssgeg, does work on every channel. The biggest limitation for that isn’t tone complexity as much as it is tuning. Higher notes are usually more out of tune than they otherwise would be. But, overall, yes, 24 note polyphony is very possible on OPN2/YM2612 As for YM3812, the OPL2 doesn’t have ssgeg, so that technique isn’t an option. However, using additive mode and various multiplier settings does allow for 18 note polyphony, albeit with limitations in what those pitches can be. They need to be integer multiples of a base pitch less than 15 and not 11 or 13. OPN2 can do something similar to this with algorithm 7 using integer multiples less than or equal to 15. So again, yes it is possible, but it’s done in a different way with different limitations
@@SpinningSquareWaves wow thank you for a clear explanation. I kind of guess that there were some magic going on here! Great song and great usage of the tech! Reason for me to land here was that I'm fiddling with converting a full collection of Adlib-music to C64/FM. A new world just opened up to the different FM-chips and their quirks!
@@iwanttocomplain About the British inventing chiptune. Chiptune is kind of a fuzzy genre that can be defined in different ways. That makes it hard to point at one person or group and call them the inventor. Much like other music genres, Chiptune is something that has slowly come into being, changing with time as it's influenced by many different artists and genres. One could argue that someone like Martin Galaway or Tim Follin were the "inventors" of chiptune, in the sense that they invented many parts of what defines chiptune music, but that would ignore the earlier work in arcade games like Rally-X or Space Invaders (assuming you count the marching rhythm of the invaders as music). Or, maybe I'm overthinking a comment that I completely misunderstood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm afraid I wouldn't be the best person for something like that. I'd recommend going onto the Furnace Discord server and asking for help there. There's a link to it on the GitHub page
Yes, it is! Although, I could see why that would be hard to tell. I’m using it here in a very unusual way. I’m not even using any of the FM features of the chip 😄
Cocktail Hour but it's played in the apartment flat next to your house
AY sawtooth on YM2612 and some parts sound similar to SID, love it!
When FM want to be AY envelope
Woooow! This is awesome!
I’m glad you like it 😁
Wtf holy shit this impressive and awesome, independent operators is one hell of a feature
SSG-EG hour
btw, nice cover
Great job! I also like playing with algorithm 7, so just sine waves in each operator (no synthesis). On my channel I also have some videos from a couple of years ago, where I present not only the extended mode of the CH3, but also the independent use of each of the CH6 operators in DAC mode. Congratulations once again. I liked your video and if you're curious, the title of my video is "YM2612 CH3 and CH6/PCM Extended Mode". I used MML.
I just checked out the video you mentioned. It seems pretty cool! Outside of XGM demos, I've only seen software mixed PCM channels like that in Toy Story's title theme and credits
@@SpinningSquareWaves
Thanks! And yes, you're right about the ".MOD" song in Toy Story's. See you later! Keep up your good work!
Tell me more about this independent use of the CH6 operators in DAC mode on the OPN2!😄😏😎 You have me intrigued!🤔🧐
@@ashkirby8896
Rsrs!
@@ashkirby8896
I responded to you on my channel, but I will also do so here, as it may be of interest to someone else.
Lets gooo
Ssg eg goes brrrr
Nice OPN2 Channel 3+SSG-EG only tune!😄🤩😎👌
There he is!
insane tech
simply wow
1:14 you'r did it!!!
Impressive ahh hell
SGG-EG is egging lol 🍳
SGG-EG is sausaging
this sounds like some undertale ahh boss music ngl
I'll take that as a complement 😄
Be sure to check out the original version made by FADE!
@@SpinningSquareWaves complement :)
When the programmers request you hold eight channels for sound effects.
9 channels because SN76489 is 4 channels
@@stgigamovement Sometimes.
@dycedargselderbrother5353 If one wants to do actual FM on the Genesis and needs more than 6 channels, Channel 3 can be split into two 2op channels on par with YM3256 FM channels, but still helpful to make more complex songs. Also Composite Sine Mode existed on YM3526 but actually affected the whole chip, but nonetheless it is technically safe on YM2612 to use it while in 2x2op mode.
I remember that the bass in the original was a bit higher pitched.
Yeah, the tuning is slightly off from the original. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the hardware limitations, since I referenced the notes in the original module while making this cover
I think it was because of the E5C0 effect in the beginning, raising the pitch by ½ a semitone.
That would make a lot of sense! I somehow missed that while making the cover
Wat.
😄 Do you want an explanation?
@@SpinningSquareWaves I'm *assuming* it involves very careful tuning of the ssgeg timing parameters to bring the envelopes into audio rates and mess with the waveforms in interesting ways, but it feels like that's missing a *lot* of detail
In short... yeah, that's about it 😄
I've done a lot of the tuning ahead of time, in fact I have multiple spreadsheets worth of tuning I've gathered over a long while, but there was also a lot of messing around with the waveforms and their different properties.
Here's a somewhat in-depth overview, if you're interested:
- both normal saws have a sync effect, meaning that the pitch of the sine wave is more for timbre than anything else
- because of their shape and timing, reverse saw is better at purer saw sounds, such as the saw lead, while normal saw is better at softer sounds, such as the bass in this song
- triangle doesn't have a sync effect, meaning results are similar to AM synthesis
- triangle doesn't like attack < 31. When that is the case, it results in a distorted waveform.
- because of those last two, triangle ssg-eg can make for a pretty convincing snare sound
- adjusting the ADSR can manipulate how much of the sine wave comes through the envelope. I've mostly only tested this with what I call "max up", where the ADSR tries to keep the sine wave active for as long as possible. In this song, that technique is used for the lower part of the organ sound, one of the arps, and the triangle snare I mentioned earlier. It can also be used for some pretty neat oscillator sync effects
That isn't quite everything there is to know about ssg-eg, but those are the more interesting bits used in this song
Bluds wrote an entire essay 👏👏👏
111th like. Let's go!
Awesome SSG abuse :)
i never knew ssg changes operator waveforms, i only ever used it for fm drums a few times
It doesn’t change the operator waveform! At least not in the same way OPL series chips can. Ssg-eg only repeats the ADSR envelope. With an incredibly short envelope, it repeats fast enough to be an audible pitch. And with proper tuning and some other tricks, that quickly looping envelope can be used to modulate the operation’s sine wave in different ways. In the end though, the operator is still just producing a sine wave
@@SpinningSquareWaves hmm, at least i know how it's done now, thanks for answering!
keep up the good work!
I just realized that I completely misread the second half of your message. You already knew how ssg-eg works.
Sorry if I came across as condescending. That's what I get for replying to comments first thing in the morning...
Thank you for your kind words!
@@SpinningSquareWaves ehh it's ok, everyone talks like that at those hours
you _REALLY_ like SSG-EG, don't ya?
imagine csm
idk what that would do but it'd be cool
nice...
one channel cover?
ik its one channel but since this is 4 seperate operatoes, can we call this a 4 operator cover?
idk
cool cover anyways
I do 😁
I don't think CSM would do too much hear that ssg-eg can't already do by itself. In my mind, CSM is just a less flexible ssg-eg that has better/easier tuning
Yeah, it's technically one channel, even if it's the better of the six. I'm tempted to try a 1 operator song, but we'll see if that pans out 😄
Thank you!
WOW so you are pretty much just using one out of 6 channels! Good work! Does that mean that you can write anything using these simple tomes to use: 6x4=24 full polyphony? If so, is it the same for YM3812 so can produce 9x2=18 different sounds?
Almost, yes! It’s important to note that channel 3 has a special mode that allows independent frequency control of the 4 operators. The other technique, ssgeg, does work on every channel. The biggest limitation for that isn’t tone complexity as much as it is tuning. Higher notes are usually more out of tune than they otherwise would be. But, overall, yes, 24 note polyphony is very possible on OPN2/YM2612
As for YM3812, the OPL2 doesn’t have ssgeg, so that technique isn’t an option. However, using additive mode and various multiplier settings does allow for 18 note polyphony, albeit with limitations in what those pitches can be. They need to be integer multiples of a base pitch less than 15 and not 11 or 13. OPN2 can do something similar to this with algorithm 7 using integer multiples less than or equal to 15. So again, yes it is possible, but it’s done in a different way with different limitations
@@SpinningSquareWaves wow thank you for a clear explanation. I kind of guess that there were some magic going on here! Great song and great usage of the tech! Reason for me to land here was that I'm fiddling with converting a full collection of Adlib-music to C64/FM. A new world just opened up to the different FM-chips and their quirks!
channel 3 extended mode?
Yes, it is 😁
Did you know, the British invented chiptune?
briys
I mean... You're not wrong... 😆
@@SpinningSquareWaves about what?
@@iwanttocomplain About the British inventing chiptune.
Chiptune is kind of a fuzzy genre that can be defined in different ways. That makes it hard to point at one person or group and call them the inventor. Much like other music genres, Chiptune is something that has slowly come into being, changing with time as it's influenced by many different artists and genres.
One could argue that someone like Martin Galaway or Tim Follin were the "inventors" of chiptune, in the sense that they invented many parts of what defines chiptune music, but that would ignore the earlier work in arcade games like Rally-X or Space Invaders (assuming you count the marching rhythm of the invaders as music).
Or, maybe I'm overthinking a comment that I completely misunderstood ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@SpinningSquareWaves make a 1bit chuptune then come back to me.
how? why?
1. with ssg-eg
2. because it's fun 😁
How to download furnace tracker on Android tutorial?
I'm afraid I wouldn't be the best person for something like that. I'd recommend going onto the Furnace Discord server and asking for help there. There's a link to it on the GitHub page
Refresh my memory, but is this the Sega Genesis FM chip?
Yes, it is! Although, I could see why that would be hard to tell. I’m using it here in a very unusual way. I’m not even using any of the FM features of the chip 😄
Wut? Its cool. But i don't understand shit lol
Thanks 😄
Do you want to understand? I'd be happy to explain