22r won't idle - Fuel Cut solenoid? SOLVED! SEE DESCRIPTION / COMMENTS
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- SOLVED!!! - It ended up being the stupid float level! Even though I set it EXACTLY to FSM specs and tripled checked and made sure there wasn't a problem with the float itself. I was able to determine this only after hooking up a remote starter (a little tricky on a 22r....I'll be posting a video soon on how to do this). Basically you need to wedge something to depress the clutch (not ideal putting it under constant tension) or better, ground the clutch safety wire going into the starter solenoid, then attach remote starter between batt + and IGN wire going into start solenoid. Anyway, when I did this, I could see the bowl filling up, up, up, and up....past the middle line, then out of view, then overflowing and never stopping. I couldn't tell where the float level was before cause I had to be inside the truck to start it....and looking at a flooded/full bowl looks exactly the same as looking at an empty one since the fuel is mostly clear. Anyhow, after spending a ton of time dicking around with the float level, I was able to get it idling quite nicely....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week.
Anyhow, to clear up confusion on the fuel cut solenoid. All it's intended to do is open up when voltage is applied, and close (cut off fuel) when voltage is taken away....and voltage is applied by turning the IGN ON, and it's taken away by turning IGN off. So, It will only cause idling problems if it's closed or partially closed/stuck or not receiving voltage....in which case it will stay closed and starve the carb of fuel. But on it's own, it will never cause the issue I'm getting (ie. way too much fuel, running too rich). Again, all it can do is cut off fuel, not add more fuel. So that was never a feasible culprit here. Nonetheless, I replaced mine with a cheapo Chinese one that seems to be working fine.....for now anyway.
It's also worth noting, unlike what has been said in some forums, the white wire on the fuel cut solenoid is not ground, it goes to the stupid emissions computer, which probably controls a ground connection to that white wire.....so it should usually be getting ground on that wire, but it has to go through the dumb emissions comp to get there. On my truck, the emissions comp seems to be worthless, and there is no ground on the white wire no matter what I try (pulled comp, resoldered all connectors, replaced a bad diode....still worthless). The cheap Chineseum fuel cut solenoid is actually a better/simpler design. It's a single wire, which is hooked to the black wire, which receives voltage when IGN is on (thus allowing fuel to flow) and receives no voltage when IGN is off (thus cutting fuel)....it gets ground direct from the carb body. No emissions computer involved....very simple and effective. So I'm either going to keep this one one, or fix my stock solenoid with tons of ultrasonic bath and carb cleaner and then solder the white wire to the solenoid housing, so it's always grounded via the carb body.
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I repaired one recently ,1989 Toyota truck 22 R.
The idle circuit had a rough idle, other than that vehicle ran fine. You had too keep youre right foot on the gas pedal slightly while idling. Coincidentally mine just happened too be a twofold problem. After removal of of the fuel cutoff solenoid and observing the tip of the solenoid while it was energized even though the solenoid clicked, there was hardly any movement of the pintle valve tip that I could see. I sprayed carb cleaner through the tip with a long nozzle and nothing went through it. Finally after working with it for awhile it unstuck itself and now it shows a nice spray pattern out of the spraying nozzle orifices.
The second part of the idle problem was a cracked vacuum line. So these two things made this diagnosis a little tricky, but it can certainly be done. This particular truck took about couple hours.
Hope this works for someone who is going through a similar problem. Good wrenching too all the techs.
The fuel cut solenoid could be possibly stuck. Try spraying the tip of it with brake cleaner and tap the tip of it with a screwdriver. Repeat with brake cleaner several times. Then test it with power to see if it will click. You can also try tapping on it when you add power on/off while testing. If nothing happens, then it probably doesn't work anymore and you'll have to try to find and buy another one. That small o-ring that goes on the end can probably be found in a carburetor rebuild kit for this carb at the auto parts store.
Have something hold down the gas pedal to keep the pickup running and then check the glass window on the carburetor to see where the fuel level is at. Is it too high, or too low?
You may need that solenoid for the truck to run. In my experience when I had a 1980 Toyota Pickup 4wd with a 20R, that solenoid is connected to a circuit board near the driver's side left foot (it's call an emissions computer, it may not be on all models though). The cold solder joints on the circuit board develop tiny cracks and will cause intermittent connection with power and ground for the solenoid to function. You can reheat the solder joints on the circuit board to fix this type of issue. (What I did was just splice into the negative wire of the solenoid and wired that additional wire straight to the negative terminal on the battery and it ran fine.) Symptoms that happen with intermittent connection with this circuit board: stalling/stalling especially when driving and letting off the gas pedal when coming to a stop.
Hey thanks for the reply! I tried exactly this with the emissions computer. Reflowed solder on every point and added a tiny bit of fresh lead Kester solder. Noticed a bad diode as well. Replaced with generic diode of similar type.
I've seen people in forums say the white wire on the fuel cut solenoid is ground, but in wiring diagrams and from my testing, it actually goes to that emissions computer. Maybe it's supposed to get grounded there? Whatever....it's not working on mine. I cleaned the fuel cut solenoid in an ultrasonic and sprayed it with carb cleaner. Got it to unstick and click, although it still seemed gummed up, like a weak muffled click. Installing it did not fix issue. Ordered a new crappy Chinese fuel cut solenoid that has a very definite clean sounding click and only one positive wire. It receives ground from the carb body (like everything else on the carb, choke heater, outer vent). It appears that if the fuel cut solenoid fails CLOSED, or does not receive 12v power to open it up, it could starve the engine of fuel and prevent proper running/idling, but the fuel cut solenoid itself would never cause my problem (way too rich and flooding with fuel). It appears all it's intended to do is immediately cut fuel when the key is turned to off to prevent residual fuel getting in resulting in dieseling.
Anyhow, after studying wiring diagram, I was able to get a remote starter hooked up (have to ground clutch safety wire and wire remote start between batt + and IGN wire going to start solenoid). Upon doing this, I was able to see the float filling up, up, up, up and then overflowing....even though I set the level EXACTLY as stated in the FSM and triple checked. After spending a ton of time dicking around with the float level, I was able to get it idling quite nicely....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week.
Thanks very much for taking the time to reply! Very much appreciated!
I just picked up a truck with this exact issue for cheap with a "rebuild" carb. I'll be checking this next.
wow I haven't seen one of those in 30 years, that fuel cut solenoid is exactly that, it cuts fuel off to keep it from dieseling, the previous design had a pin that we would take out and screw the solenoid back in, on that design just snip off the brass end with the holes and screw it back in, you don't need it. Next, you have the air cleaner on so I can't see if choke is closed, also that glass window is to check fuel level, you should see fuel in between the two flat points, also there is a metal, what looks like a round housing on the side of the carb with a vacuum hose attached, there is a rubber diaphragm inside to assist in cold starts, pull that vacuum hose off and make sure there is no gas coming out, if there is either the diaphragm is ripped or missing.
My 2wd had the same symptoms. It was the AAP (aux acceleration pump) unplugged vacuum line and plugged both ends
That's idle cut solenoid?
It changes length when you shut off the ignition key?
It changes length when you turn the ignition key on?
Does it? Are you grounding it's body during the test?
Do you have a "you pull it" yard, around?
My idle cut solenoid worked for over forty years before I parked the car and haven't tried to start in a long time.
So, if you verify it does what it does when it's supposed to do it. Install it, my question is how many cylinders are firing?
Maybe inspect the spark plugs, clean and gap them. Inspect the secondary ignition like cap, rotor, wires.
Verify spark at each plug.
Turning idle air bleed screw in leans it. That's about as lean as it gets at 1 1/2 turns out. There is an idle speed screw. Are you using it instead of your foot?
Does it smell rich and were the plugs all firing?
See where you're at.
There's a HIC and an HAC on some of these trucks.
I studied them in library books for free and helped one with used parts while I experimented.
Do you know these terms?
And what's your emission sticker or cafe decal look like?
Does it have a system designation?
Like, my dad's Corolla was a 4 AF.
Has your engine been modified?
Do you have vacuum leaks?
Try pinching each hose and see if idle speed changes.
There may also be a hose that gets disconnected and plugged during fine adjust of idle mixture.
Is your timing set and undisturbed during this repair?
Did it run bad before you condemned the carburetor?
Are there advance and or retard diaphragms on your distributor?
Are they able to hold vacuum?
Does fuel leak into the vacuum hose that supplied vacuum to the distributor if that how yours is outfitted?
You can learn a lot from a Haynes manual.
You can request one at the public library.
Leave your camera home.
I watched another guy who had to adjust the float to fill the float bowl to the sight glass, but his idle mix setting was like 3 to 3&1/2 turns out.
I was surprised that was supposed to be right.
I think he just didn't have enough available fuel.
His video didn't show his choke plate or how it opened.
His carb might be different. It had he choke cap very high on the passenger side and the sight glass very prominent on the front.
I don't have both to compare when writing this.
Danny, thank you thank you thank you! This is INCREDIBLY helpful! These are all excellent questions! It ended up being the stupid float level! Even though I set it EXACTLY to FSM specs and tripled checked. I was able to determine this only after hooking up a remote starter (a little tricky on a 22r....I'll be posting a video soon on how to do this). Basically you need to wedge something to depress the clutch (not ideal putting it under constant tension) or better, ground the clutch safety wire going into the starter solenoid, then attach remote starter between batt + and IGN wire going into start solenoid. Anyway, when I did this, I could see the bowl filling up, up, up, and up....past the middle line, then out of view, then overflowing and never stopping....again, even though I set the float level to FSM spec and confirmed no issues with the float (even tried replacing it with a new one). Anyhow, after spending a ton of time dicking around with the float level, I was able to get it idling quite nicely....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week.
Anyhow, thanks VERY much again for all the great troubleshooting steps! I really appreciate it! There will be more videos posted soon of work on this truck, and more importantly DRIVING IT when it's done! Sorry, the camera is in my pocket, so I use it all the time ;)
Just bought an ‘85 2wd runs pretty good ‘cept. for the idle. I’m chucking all that. Got a Weber coming today. Never mind that the carb cost half as much as the pickup !
Where'd you find the knock-off fuel cut solenoid?
I have an 87 4x4 ,had the same problem, bad gas,had water in it, caused dieseling,flooding and lots of gas fumes from tailpipe
Have you got your truck up and running?. Sounds like you got fuel issue. have you checked the fuel level through the glass window opening on the Carburetor?. It should be in the middle, between the top and bottom of that glass window, if it's too high then it will flood the engine and if it is too low then it doesn't get enough fuel to run. I suggest you send your Carburetor to a Carburetor specialist to have it rebuilt and reset everything to its spec. it starts right up but could not keep idling that means something in the Carb is out of spec. Good luck.
That sounds like a spark issue... Firing order ?
Try turning up the idle on the carb a little bit and turn up the fuel regulator a tad more I have my 85 Celica GT with 22r idle set just under 1000 and regulator at 3
Look at air breather,u have a vaccuum tube that goes to the underside of ur carb...unplug that. If it idles now that part is stuck shut
I need help. On my 85 Toyota pickup 22R im trying to see which of the two hard lines on the side of the block goes where. They're bolted to the side of the engine. I dont know if the upper or lower line is the inlet to the tank. Thanks
I had vac lines hooked up wrong once and was pulling fuel up from tank through carbon canister and it ran just like that with black smoke.
Mine's doing the same thing but it started randomly after 10,000 miles on a head gasket job
I am confirming that you do need a functioning fuel cut off solenoid in order for it to idle properly. I removed my faulty solenoid and put in place a bolt and it idled perfectly.
So you're confirming you do NOT need a fuel cut solenoid to idle properly? I'm assuming that first sentence is misworded.
@@evankolpack a faulty cut off solenoid will affect your idle so you either have the option of replacing it with a new solenoid or removing it as a whole. Since solenoids are no longer available or easy to find I just went with the latter
So would that cause it to flood out at idle
@@tinoanderson3912 yes it can either flood or cut off fuel supply
@@kenxiong6830 cuz I keep shooting black smoke outta my tail pipe and I swapped the the cut off with a good one and it's still drips non stop down the throat of the carb
Not all vacuum hoses need to be hooked up, try pulling one at a time
Hey man, you figure this out yet? I'm in Damascus Oregon and would be down to come give you a hand if you're not too far 🤙 just tuned my 84 and finished up my 3.4 swap in my 85 runner. Lmk
It's not an idle problem, you have your plug leads wrong order, that's why the engoine won't run properly. Turn up idle screw, them set plug wires right way, and tune carburetor. Either that or 2 of your spark plugs are dead. Firing Order is 1,3,4,2 No 1 is in front. Air screw is allways 2,5 turns out +- Idle screw turn it so it just touches stop, then turn it another threequarter turn in that should give you 850 rpm. now adjust your timing turn anti clockwise to set faster, when engine stops revving higher rurn slightly back. Now tune air screw, turn out until engine do not rev higher turn 1/4 turn back. Your choke screw should be about 3,5 turns out. I should run nicely.
Are you sure plug leads are wrong? The dude I bought it from did a lot of work on it, new head gasket. Maybe he missed that? I didn't even check. Turned out it seems to be a float problem (really weird, can't get it to behave consistently no matter how much adjustments I do).....but when the float is right, it idles fine. I wouldn't think it would do this if firing order was off.
Having similar issue, however it fixed itself once I hooked up the wires to the old LPG converter solenoid this allowed me to toggle this problem on and off with the flick of a switch however I believe that solenoid is buggered too because with the lpg switch toggled off it’s started happening again, just gonna remove the whole thing completely my previous 22r motor didn’t have it and ran perfectly fine for years,
I have same problem. Do you find it
Yeah, see other comments, in short, it was the float level, even though I calibrated it exactly to service manual spec.
I have a 1986 that’s having the same issue. I’ve changed out the fuel pump, plugs, plug wires, distributor, fresh oil and a brand new carburetor. Still with the sputtering, shutting off etc. what was your fix?
I also have an 86 with same issue. Ever figure out the issue? My next steps are to replace thermostat, adjust float levels, and then try adjusting choke.
I'm having same issue but already replaced the fuel cut and also computer still having the issue
Tino, I was able to fix the issue. After studying wiring diagram, I was able to get a remote starter hooked up (have to ground clutch safety wire and wire remote start between batt + and IGN wire going to start solenoid). You can also just wedge something to press the clutch instead of grounding the wire, but constant pressure on clutch plate isn't ideal. I'll have a video on how to hookup the remote start on a 22r soon, it's a little tricky. Anyway, upon doing this, I was able to see the float filling up, up, up, up and then overflowing....even though I set the level EXACTLY as stated in the FSM and triple checked. After spending a ton of time dicking around with the float level, I was able to get it idling quite nicely....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week. Thanks for the reply! Look out for that video on the remote start....might help diagnose your issue. You can't see if the float level is way too high or way too low cause gas is mostly clear....you just see nothing. You have to drain it (10mm plug in front, facing fuel pump), then watch what happens when you fire it up.....either need a buddy or remote start. You can keep it alive (at least I can in my case) but physically pulling on throttle linkage. If it starts to overflow, I have a vice grip ready on the fuel inlet hose to cut off fuel and prevent flooding. You don't wanna flood the intake with fuel....it'll end up draining past piston rings and into your oil pan, which will thin you oil and could cause much bigger problems. I'd check your oil for gas before proceeding much further. If it's thinned out to any significant extent, change oil and try to prevent overflow in the future.
@@evankolpack ya mine isn't having that issue I already checked and used a buddys carb that I pulled off his truck still same issue
@@tinoanderson3912 Ah, yes, well then down the rabbit hole you go. If it's behaving similar to mine and carb has been ruled out and you're pretty sure timing is good (or close enough), could be any number of things but I'd check spark and compression on all cylinders first and see what that turns up. I'm guessing you'll find an issue there, which could be plug, wire, distro, or something else. Check fuel pump and filter too. I put a holley regulator + gauge on mine....it's reading about 4 psi when running. Good luck!
@@evankolpack I replace plugs cap I haven't checked the weights in the distributor yet but looks like I'm getting good spark on all cylinders compression reads good The head was just done 10,000 miles ago The truck only has $140,000 mi on it and when I did the head we checked there was still the factory crosshatching in the block so I have no idea what's going on about to just give up on this thing The only thing I can think of is the California emissions computer but I swapped it out for a different one no change so I'm thinking it might be one of the wires coming off the computer is shorting out somewhere or one of the thermos sensors on the intake is having an issue somewhere as I'm sure you know these wiring harnesses for the motor are kind of crap they were made super cheap the wires are super thin unfortunately I don't have time to track everything down so it might just go to the shop and we can go from there I guess but it's irritating
When a carb is overhauled there is a common mistake made by people which will cause too much fuel to run constantly into the intake manifold. If they remove the top of the carb, called the horn, and turn it upside down, there is a rod pointing up, and a screw holds that rod in place. If you remove that screw to remove that item there is a special way to reinstall the item properly or it will constantly leak fuel. You must rotate a tang on it to get that item to drop properly into place before you place the screw that holds the rod. If you removed that rod when cleaning the carb, and you replaced the rod aftwr ck3aning the carb, if you did not rotate the tang the item will not sit down into place and will constantly leak a lot of fuel into the engine and get into your oil pan. You can smell the fuel on the dipstick when you check the oil level. A simple little mistake that causes a lot of problems with the engine racing a lot of high rpm, and not idling properly.
What's the actual name of this part? I am not able to buy it in any auto parts. It seems they can't find it.
It's just called a remote starter. Obviously not the key fob push button type, but yeah, just search Amazon for "remote starter switch".
Being a 22r i have to ask when was the last time u changed your timing chain?
I bought it from a guy who bought it from a guy kinda thing. The price was low and information minimal. All I know is he did the head gasket, fuel pump, wires, plugs and some other misc stuff. He said chain guides looked fine and I don't hear any chain slap when I am able to get it running more than 10 seconds or so. Turns out, after I was able to get remote start figured out (a little tricky on a 22r, need to ground clutch safety and tap into IGN wire to start solenoid) that float level was off, causing flooding.....even though I set the level EXACTLY to FSM spec. After spending a ton of time dicking around with the float level, I was able to get it idling quite nicely....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week.
Thanks for the reply/help! Very much appreciated! Aloha!
PCV VALVE
U r missing a bunch of vaccum lines
I think you're seeing the plugged vacuum lines that would go to a HAC, which was optional and didn't come on my truck. AFAIK, all other vacuum lines are correct. I'm going to double check with the diagram in the FSM, but at a glance, they all look good.
And u r misfiring
Maybe, but in this video, it's running so poorly from flooding/rich, it's tough to say. I was finally able to get it idling well by adjusting the float level (even though I set it EXACTLY to FSM spec and confirmed no issues with the float itself)....when idling, it ran beautifully, definitely no misfires.....until a radiator line blew because the thermostat is old and dead. So ordered a new one and just put it in yesterday. Gunna reinstall dash instrument panel (pulled to install new bulbs and fix heater gauge) and see if she's finally alive when I have time....probably next week.
Thanks for the input! Very much appreciated!
Idle jet in the carburettor is clogged up that's why when you take foot of gas it stalls out and die I would open carburettor up and just pull idle jet and clean it that piece that you hold was a idle air solenoid
Just buy a new cut solenoid why cut stuff why why
Toyota doesn't make them anymore. I bought the only one I could find (cheapie Chinese thing). Didn't solve the problem. See video description for the solution.