A REAL trumpet is about twice the length, and has NO VALVES! It lingered on in the orchestra after the death of JS Bach and his contemporaries. But I agree that the rotary trumpet is more “trumpet” than is the modern piston instruments.
It lingered on until the 19th century, actually. Beethoven used it, Ferdinand Herold used it, and I recall playing an A natural trumpet in an early 20th century piece. I have 19th century band music that calls for both natural trumpets and cornets a pistons. That said, trumpets with holes (vents) and keys date back to the Renaissance.
@@gregmonks heck, Brahms used natural trumpet writing(or maybe stylistically even if the orchestras weren't using actual natural or vented valveless trumpets) in his Symphonies, Academic overture and so on - various crooks for different keys ... however occasionally doing non-harmonic tones (there's about 4 of these in Brahms 2 - all Eb's). Was seriously considering using my Johann Haas III replica (technically a "1 vent hole" trumpet but with 3 actual holes, for different crooks... using the A=415 hole on the 440 crook places the E down a semitone!) for Brahms 2 (and with vent holes, it could even work with the high Eb's) Gounod's Faust (1880!) has parts for 2x natural trumpets (E and C) and 2x cornets (A and Bb - I imagine in my head-canon Arban playing the Cornet part and Dauverne playing the Trumpet, thought the decade might not work for that). Of course up to WW1, trumpets are mostly the big low-long F trumpets with valves (and I've seen an example of a Bb trumpet with fake tubing to make it look like an F trumpet to make auditions or playing in Orchestras "easier" while appearing to be legit). Then a war happened and everyone started mass producing whatever trumpets they were making in the UK/France/USA during the war, and quite likely deliberately shunning anything German, including their trumpets. (Note Vaughan Williams writing for F valved trumpet and 2x Bb cornets in Symphony 2, then never using the F trumpet ever again after 1914).
Um Trumpets have been around since Biblical times and they were more than four times as long, Trumpet is the shape of the bell, valves are just are just a way to get the resonance of a long tube by wrapping it around and redirecting air flow.
The guy with the best advice on learning to play the trumpet on TH-cam (in my humble opinion) is this guy. He really knows his stuff and will provide you with a good grounding and the best information: th-cam.com/video/3kvr0YqqmrA/w-d-xo.html
I am not sure but as far as I know Trumpet really refers to the shape of the bell. So those massive horns the Romans used, trumpets, the air intakes on cars shaped like that, tuned induction intakes are called intake trumpets, cornet is not a catchy name.
The word "trumpet" has several meanings, some of them nouns, some of them adjectives, some of them verbs. You'd have to ask an entymologist about the word's origins.
Just getting him back for referring to the modern trumpet as a "European fad", quote, unquote. 😁 He was wrong on two counts with that one alone. It was an American invention, and it took, not just the States, but the world, by storm, even replacing the rotary Bb in US orchestras starting in 1910. Clarke himself was an exceptional player, but I think everyone wishes he'd kept his cringe-worthy opinions to himself.
@@kevinhateswriting Same here! I made a copy back when I was in college in the early 70's. It's always good for a laugh. I'm always wondering if the same can be said about myself at some point in the future. 😁
@@gregmonks most sources say the modern trumpet was based on the French Besson not the 1910 long model Conn cornet. The Besson trumpet was based heavily on the cornet and came out in the late 19th century. The original Bach and Benge models were heavily based on the French Besson trumpet and that is why the moden trumpet is said by many to be basically a cornet. Your conclusion is correct but the premises you use to get there are not. Also I think it is highly disrespectful to make those comments about 19th century cornet virtuosos. Are you operating from a position of strength? Are you a better player than these people?
@@stevenuttley . . . so I checked a number of modern resources, including Robb Stewart's, and came across information that was new to me. You are correct- that Besson was making Bb trumpets as far back as the 1880's- but other makers were apparently making "high" trumpets before that in keys such as D. As you say, several of these blur the line between cornet and trumpet, to the point that they were sold as a trumpet/cornet, a practice that Conn seems to have maintained ca 1910. I'm always wary of giving Conn credit for anything, since he was never one to let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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A REAL trumpet is about twice the length, and has NO VALVES! It lingered on in the orchestra after the death of JS Bach and his contemporaries. But I agree that the rotary trumpet is more “trumpet” than is the modern piston instruments.
It lingered on until the 19th century, actually. Beethoven used it, Ferdinand Herold used it, and I recall playing an A natural trumpet in an early 20th century piece. I have 19th century band music that calls for both natural trumpets and cornets a pistons. That said, trumpets with holes (vents) and keys date back to the Renaissance.
@@gregmonks heck, Brahms used natural trumpet writing(or maybe stylistically even if the orchestras weren't using actual natural or vented valveless trumpets) in his Symphonies, Academic overture and so on - various crooks for different keys ... however occasionally doing non-harmonic tones (there's about 4 of these in Brahms 2 - all Eb's). Was seriously considering using my Johann Haas III replica (technically a "1 vent hole" trumpet but with 3 actual holes, for different crooks... using the A=415 hole on the 440 crook places the E down a semitone!) for Brahms 2 (and with vent holes, it could even work with the high Eb's)
Gounod's Faust (1880!) has parts for 2x natural trumpets (E and C) and 2x cornets (A and Bb - I imagine in my head-canon Arban playing the Cornet part and Dauverne playing the Trumpet, thought the decade might not work for that).
Of course up to WW1, trumpets are mostly the big low-long F trumpets with valves (and I've seen an example of a Bb trumpet with fake tubing to make it look like an F trumpet to make auditions or playing in Orchestras "easier" while appearing to be legit).
Then a war happened and everyone started mass producing whatever trumpets they were making in the UK/France/USA during the war, and quite likely deliberately shunning anything German, including their trumpets. (Note Vaughan Williams writing for F valved trumpet and 2x Bb cornets in Symphony 2, then never using the F trumpet ever again after 1914).
Um Trumpets have been around since Biblical times and they were more than four times as long, Trumpet is the shape of the bell, valves are just are just a way to get the resonance of a long tube by wrapping it around and redirecting air flow.
Thank you for the lesson, Professor Monks! It was great learning about the history of the trumpet and cornet!
Thank you for this very valuable information that I was completely unaware of .
I have just started playing the trumpet. Thanks for these good videos
The guy with the best advice on learning to play the trumpet on TH-cam (in my humble opinion) is this guy. He really knows his stuff and will provide you with a good grounding and the best information: th-cam.com/video/3kvr0YqqmrA/w-d-xo.html
@@gregmonks thanks greg you are a good person
Thanks for the knowledge here, Greg!
Cool lesson! Thanks
I'm a trombone gal, but always appreciate some good music instrument history! Thanks! :)
Just for you. th-cam.com/video/iwEuZQpEync/w-d-xo.html
wow
I am not sure but as far as I know Trumpet really refers to the shape of the bell. So those massive horns the Romans used, trumpets, the air intakes on cars shaped like that, tuned induction intakes are called intake trumpets, cornet is not a catchy name.
The word "trumpet" has several meanings, some of them nouns, some of them adjectives, some of them verbs. You'd have to ask an entymologist about the word's origins.
"Herbert Clarke was an opinionated circus clown performer" LOL!
Just getting him back for referring to the modern trumpet as a "European fad", quote, unquote. 😁 He was wrong on two counts with that one alone. It was an American invention, and it took, not just the States, but the world, by storm, even replacing the rotary Bb in US orchestras starting in 1910. Clarke himself was an exceptional player, but I think everyone wishes he'd kept his cringe-worthy opinions to himself.
@@gregmonks Absolutely! I used to have the letter in question framed in my bedroom, not sure where it is any more.
@@kevinhateswriting Same here! I made a copy back when I was in college in the early 70's. It's always good for a laugh. I'm always wondering if the same can be said about myself at some point in the future. 😁
@@gregmonks most sources say the modern trumpet was based on the French Besson not the 1910 long model Conn cornet. The Besson trumpet was based heavily on the cornet and came out in the late 19th century. The original Bach and Benge models were heavily based on the French Besson trumpet and that is why the moden trumpet is said by many to be basically a cornet. Your conclusion is correct but the premises you use to get there are not. Also I think it is highly disrespectful to make those comments about 19th century cornet virtuosos. Are you operating from a position of strength? Are you a better player than these people?
@@stevenuttley . . . so I checked a number of modern resources, including Robb Stewart's, and came across information that was new to me. You are correct- that Besson was making Bb trumpets as far back as the 1880's- but other makers were apparently making "high" trumpets before that in keys such as D. As you say, several of these blur the line between cornet and trumpet, to the point that they were sold as a trumpet/cornet, a practice that Conn seems to have maintained ca 1910. I'm always wary of giving Conn credit for anything, since he was never one to let the truth get in the way of a good story.