Paladin Loses Powers And Is Gaslit By Everyone | RPG Horror Stories
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Have you ever experienced a situation where you were gaslit by everyone in DnD? Today's dnd horror stories from r/rpghorrorstories is called The Forgotten Paladin and about a group of bad players and a bad dungeon master who try to tell him it is okay that a Dnd paladin has no recoverable spell slots over the course of 10 levels!
0:00 Intro
0:14 The Story
18:33 My Thoughts
20:19 Outro
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I actually had a dm do something similar but in a good way. My backstory was i was a disgraced paladin that thought he broke his oath after starting a civil war he thought was righteous. He only lost his power because he no longer believed in himself. He was a vengeance paladin, but when everyone was lvl 6 i was the equivalent of a lvl 3 fighter and o got to pick the subclass but have the lvl 6 hp and saves of the paladin. What happened is as the story went on and we were like lvl 12 and me effectively 9 during the end of the world rallied the people against the undead and believed in my group andy abilities to lead us to victory genuinely and i regained my lvls as if i was a lvl 12 paladin but lost none of my gained fighter abilities. So uea i was gimped but for a payoff that was beautifully done as i lead courteously the charge against the horde and inspired hope and faith in survival to the others.
This is far from the main issue, but DMs, if you are gonna strip powers from a player, always include a way to get them back and crucially GIVE THEM A REASON WHY YOU TOOK THEM.
Yeah, I agree. It’s not my favorite way to make a plot hook but if communicate is there and you try your best to still let the player have fun then it can be done!
Yes precisely! A paladin just doesn't lose their powers out of nowhere. In early editions, it was because you either didn't keep to your Lawful Good alignment or you broke your chivalrous oath (ya
... old paladins went that route). In 3.5 and pathfinder, you either had an ideal to uphold, a god's teachings, or your Lawful Good alignment (or, if you were a variant paladin, whatever alignment you had to be to keep your abilities). In 5e, you literally just keep to your oath.
A paladin will always know why they fell and, if the GM isn't a complete a-hole, know how to fix it. Regardless, you shouldn't fall for stupid or paltry reasons and a GM that just takes away your powers "just because," isn't being a good GM.
Exactly, I lost Cleric powers for a session in a 5e campaign and it both made complete sense (I even expected it after the way things turned out.) and I had them back before the next fight. My character spent an entire day reconnecting with his god to get them back and it was a story point of a waning connection. It actually turned out that I couldn't make the next session due to life events so it worked out. The party did a side quest in the town and my cleric was zonked out until the next morning.
Yeah and You can't have the player to stay powerless for that long, it should be something faster.
@@net_spidernot just lawful good, the were many paladin and monk varients with different alignment and features
The first red flag was that the DM never asked for consent to make these sweeping changes to his character. But that can be chalked up to ignorance or immaturity. The nail in the coffin is the magic item situation. Every single one of the other players ended with tailor made magic items that help their characters become who they want to be. Loot tables have nothing to do with being forgotten about by your god. If the DM was being honest, he would have given the paladin proper gear to compensate for his lack of features.
The DM made custom loot for everyone but one party member, the DM took away the party member's agency to play their character, and then the DM has the NERVE to give him a sweet taste of progression after starving him for months, only to rip it away from him immediately...
This isn't a campaign. This is bullying. It is organized and malicious. These people kept him around for the sole purpose of feeling more powerful by comparison. The DM had zero intention of giving his features back under any circumstance.
If anyone deserves to be abandoned by their god, it's the man behind the DM screen.
Yeah asking for consent when you are going to majorly affect the agency of the player for their character is big. I agree that the magic item felt particularly cruel. After being useless for so long he got one cool moment in a crit smite (one of a Paladin’s favorite combat moments), and the DM somehow made a critical success another moment of cruel failure.
personally i’d say the nail in the coffin was actualy just the dm claiming “it’s for story” and nothing else
Sheeeesshh this a lot of likes😅 thank you
@@lootgoblinmarketplacepersonally the only time i would disagree would be if they were being punished by their patron/s but even then they would know the why and know that “whelp that can’t be fixed” this came across as malicious as divinity or not he should be been able to compensate with items or at least know he is on the right track to recovering his lost powers
To be honest, I would have dipped the moment the DM pulled that wasted Cleric level BS. That was genuine evidence of maliciousness.
@@yfjliydskiu2864If it's for the story, you discuss it once. That was the red flag that proved it was malicious, to me.
This sounds to me as a perfect origin story for an oathbreaker paladin, killing the party, telling the DM to shove it and then walking off. The whole god of death not taking the time confirming the kill and instead just re-absorbing the power granted is especially BS. If anything, a god of death would have MORE use for a faithful warrior who had crossed the threshold of death.
Yeah, between that moment and the nat 20 moment. You’d think the DM likes punishing heroic moments instead of letting them feel powerful.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace And basically rewarding everyone else for practically doing nothing. That very first fight set off really bad vibes in my mind. How the paladin decided to put their own body in harms way to hold the line, went down and the rest of the party (especially that shitbird cleric) was dead set on leaving him to feckin bleed out while they chipped away at the bbeg. And then the paladin being the one to ultimately beat the second phase form by once again putting their own body in harms way, despite being on death's door already (once again, faithful champion to the god of death, not being rewarded at ALL and even being punished), to rip out the power gem mcguffin. That whole group just seemed to be bad from the jump.
Too bad doing that will immediately see that oathbreaker immediately killed and their story wiped out of the game, as it should be; Taking your frustration out on others is an asshole move.
@@borderlands10to take out your frustration on others as the phrase means requires them to not be invloved in the frustration. The entire party was complicit in this they all deserved it.
I would have tried going Oathbreaker just to see how that DM would have reacted to It, probably some BS like "Your power was originally derived from a God, you cannot simply regain power by rejecting them, and have forever locked yourself from your Paladin Powers"
"You lost your paladin powers because your god assumed you had died."
But... but I prayed the following morning. I told him that I was still alive, personally.
And holy shit, Kelemvor? *Kelemvor* assumed he were dead. Are this GM's gods all monumentally stupid?
GM strips a player of basically their character's entire class, for reasons that aren't the player's fault *and* aren't a valid reason to lose paladin abilities. DURING AN ACT OF HEROISM!
Nope. That's where you start a fight and demand to know the *real* reason you've been crippled.
Then you either have your paladin "leave the party, wandering, searching for answers" and roll a new character, or you leave the table entirely.
Honestly "You don't have to heal him yet, he'll live", "Okay I guess I should Healing Word or something", "The bard immediately lands a crit" was a chain of red flags. The GM was trying to instakill him and failed.
"You can multiclass into cleric but won't be able to undo it."
[Gains cleric level]
"By the way you get basically nothing."
The rest of the party: "Hey stop complaining you're still better than our fully-powered characters."
Yeah. Should've left the table.
GM: "By the way this climb down was designed to kill you."
I still have two spells to prevent that.
GM: (Oh. Shit. Better *make* *up* *some* *bullshit* to make him use up the other one).
And it just keeps getting worse. I can't even comment anymore.
Okay no, one more comment. Finally leaving, setting some boundaries, and setting a hard "No, I mean it, I'm gone, this is too much" was 100% the right move.
This man could write a class on how not to DM. He really punished the good moments and killed any excitement this player had.
"your still better than our fully powered characters" meanwhile the paladin basically looses everything the paladin has going for it
Whilst we shall never know i had a sneaking suspicion that in reality his powers were never lost but in reality the amethyst shielded him from recovering his expended power, you know like a cursed item in a video game u gain this but suddenly you you get this debuff permanently until u remove the item
@@tragicalknave If that was the case the DM should have made it clear instead of stringing the poor guy along for *months.* And also, like, gotten *CONSENT* from the player for a story arc that strips his powers temporarily. This wasn't accidental, it was purposeful and malicious, manipulative and *extremely* abusive.
Also also where does it say the party made or *let* him carry the gem? They probably took it from him while he was still unconscious in case it had some magic power the warlock could use.
"And holy shit, Kelemvor? Kelemvor assumed he were dead. Are this GM's gods all monumentally stupid?"
I mean, most of the FR gods _are_ monumentally stupid (or monumentally lazy in the case of Oghma) if you portray them accurately, but Kelemvor is supposed to be one of a small handful of exceptions.
Mildly astonished how *no one* seems to have noticed this gem of a line: "I was isolated at university".
Now, OP didn't mention if the other players attended the same university but if they did they *knew* what was going on. If they knew they invited OP *solely* to continue tormenting them outside of university.
Even if they didn't know, if everyone laughs at "guess I gotta be a team player to this one guy" they know why they invited OP to join. They invited OP to have an easy victim, simple as that.
Not a single person was on OP's side in this. Not. A. One.
The cleric was a bint to OP almost as an appetizer to the horrible, the warlock told OP to stop complaining about being made the buttmonkey and arguably worst the Rogue and Barbarian tried to keep OP around *right* after OP said they feel like shit because of the game by telling them that they "like hanging out with OP".
No "what, why", no "but DM said they talked it out with you and you were ok with it" or "DM said the de-powering was your idea so we thought you were fine with how things were going", no "can we change anything".
Instead they went straight to emotional manipulation so the Barbarian offering to walk OP home just comes across as "hey, lemme gaslight you into not leaving".
Waste of carbon, the lot of them.
yeah its obvious that it was deliberate and premiditated.
"Your class has more features and hit points" but he can't use any of the features
Excellent counter to that statement. If you cant use any feature or ability that your class is known for, or even CAN use normally, then you are playing a classless character. The ONLY thing you'd have is the increased hit points, but that's not really anything to note. In a party of demigod heroes, you'd want to have MORE than just "higher than average health".
@@daviddragonheart6798 not to mention that the barbarian will have alot more health, higher ac, and he's even getting bonuses from an extra totem, so he's getting bonus class features while the paladin had his taken away
I find it ridiculous that the DM said that they couldn't change their fighting style, even through training, because it was outside the rules. THE ENTIRE REASON THEY ARE THIS WEAK IS BECAUSE THE DM BROKE THE RULES. The paladin didn't break their vow. The DM made up a reason that they would lose their power, so why not make up a way they can change their fighting style?
Even if he did break his vow, taking away powers isn't supported by RAW. The player and DM could discuss possibly changing the character's subclass from whatever they were before to an Oathbreaker, but _any_ such change of subclass or removal of power is under the domain of DM fiat and homebrew.
@@VestedUTuberChange of Subclass is actually RAW, specifically in Tasha’s. Taking AWAY a character’s BASIC GAME MECHANICS on the other hand ISN’T.
It wasn’t just subclass features he lost, it was almost ALL of his CLASS features. Losing spellcasting, all subclass, and class features quite literally left him with extra attack and protection, effectively making him WORSE than a MERCENARY VETERAN NPC. Wth was wrong with that DM?
@@alphastronghold715
Tasha's character changing rules are considered optional, so the DM would still have to inform the party about using them. Though even so, RAW they're written for the player to use, with approval from the DM, not for the DM to suddenly spring on the player.
And you're preaching to the choir here. That was a really shitty move by the DM.
Because that's not how the game works, and is not how the GM is running the game, obviously; The GM is the final arbiter of rules, end of story.
@@borderlands10 Yeah, my problem is him suddenly pretending to care when he didn’t before. My point is that if he’s ignoring the rules to take away his class abilities, why does he insist on following them when it comes to his fighting style? I’m not saying he can’t do it, I’m just pointing out that it’s a bullshit reason, and further proof that he’s a bad DM.
this is one of those stories that truly demonstrates the meaning of "may the bridges you burn light your way"
Never heard that before but man that line goes hard.
Never heard that, I love that!
I also heard "at one point you burn so many bridges you can't turn back"
"You're almost like a fighter!" No he's not, he doesn't even get to action surge.
"You have spell slots and cantrips! You're better than me, a warlock!" No he's not, he doesn't even get Eldritch Blast.
The rogue was barely mentioned in the story, but it still seems awful to me to sit in a group of 4 or so people that just hate your guts for no reason.
This story reminds me of one of the most brutal flavor texts I've seen in a video game.
"The king's eye returned from the west. 'Fertile pastures lay just beyond sight. Just a little farther,' he said. It was always just a little farther."
In the DM's case, he told the player "The story will give you your full powers back, in just a little bit." It was always in "just a little bit".
Yeah this Paladin got strung along hard. He was always moments away from the pay off but the DM never let that moment come.
What is that text from? If all the flavor text in the game goes that hard, I might want to pick it up.
@@doomguy19931 The flavortext is from an item called “misinformation” from Path of Exile.
@@andersmeinicke5814 Some Path of Exile items had some really interesting quotes like that.
just one more score Arthur!
OP, if you're reading this, you have NO REASON to feel bad about burning those bridges, you are totally justified in how you've felt. Like you said, if those people couldn't bother defending you before then and even made it worse then what worth was that bridge in the first place? The barbarian at best realized waaaaaaaay too late how they were acting was unacceptable (because these were months and months of game time and you saying something even out of game). At worst, they're just trying to fool you again into thinking they're being reasonable to give them another undeserved chance. I hope you feel better and I hope you find only groups that treat you right from now on.
Yeah, he definitely should not feel bad. I think that what he considered lashing out to the barbarian was pretty tame. The OP choose to step away and that’s totally fair!
I once had a somewhat similar situation happen in a game my response was
"so what am i replaceing my paladin levels with Barbarian or Fighter".
The GM was confused so i explained that i would not be playing 1/2 character until my powers returned so i needed to know which class he felt was best fit for a depowered paladin. He said fighter, so i proceeded to make a min maxed fighter/eldritch knight who learned magic from the party wizard and told his god so screw off. All in all it worked out but that dude doesn't invite me to play in games anymore. Rest of the table does though. 😅
Level 12? That was the last level and frankly story reasons my Ass. Kelemvor would have Noticed by then and would have given you Back your spell slots for damn sure. D&D story does not beat D&D Lore OP. That DM was being a Dick. Nuff said.
@@owens945yeah cause frankly a DM who does this to a Paladin doesn't deserve to DM. You did the right thing man. I almost had a Similar situation happen with a Cleric and I told that DM "Well then my Cleric commits suicide and I'm out. I have another game where that DM doesn't pull BS. And I've DMed my damn self. I don't pull this shit for 'story reasons' and I won't leave the player in the dark about what's going on if I do."
He's not justified. He's a sack of toxic sh.... I mean, what was the big deal? Losing his powers' Feeling he wasn't as epic as the others? Part of the DnD is, precisely, tell great stories, and stories need evolution. But clearly, this toxic, spoiled, cry baby players with severe emotional problems, wanted to play to feel important, and not enjoy the tale.
DnD is not for him.
I hate gaslighting with a burning passion. Especially if people try to make YOU out to be ungrateful. It's despicable and disgusting. I also can't stand people that drag you along for exuberant amounts of time with no sign that a resolution in underway. It's like if you don't have the money to pay something and you're told "you can work to pay it off!" but they refuse to let the debt be paid or give any signs of progress, working you to the bone like a slave and calling you ungrateful when you lash out. That's beyond unacceptable. Good on OP for getting out.
I was just dumbfounded when he said he was being ungrateful…
Holy hell, what the hell is wrong with that party?
OP had way too much patience for that BS. Six levels of nothing?
Man is so patient in real life he may actually be a Paladin.
I once was a LG Paladin in a chaotic evil party, but the "chaotic evil" part of the PCs were just childish things like stealing daggers or making mean jokes to npcs, so I didn't see any in character reason to "correct them". My Paladin goal was to retrieve some kind of magical object (a sphere of evil or something like that) in order to prevent a full-scale demon invasion of the material plane, the rest of the party wanted the same artifact, for unspecified "evil" reasons. I played along with the party, as long as they didnt make genuine awfull stuff, i was more than happy to collaborate with them. One day we entered a city, i cant rememeber why, but one of the PCs got badly wounded, we didnt have means of healing so i sold my scimitar for 2 healing potions, in order to save the PC, the Gm looked at me and hand me the stats for the Anti-Paladin "i can make you an antipaladin, i even have a backstory for him if you want to" i ask ¿why would i want to be an antipaladin? he replies "because you are helping a chaotic evil charcater" The session goes on, eventually the same PC gets himself in trouble again (if I remember correctly the PC attempt to steal back the same symithat I sold to heal him) and an angry mob was chasing him to stone him alive, I intervene and manage to find him before the mob did, so he was saved for the day. After that, my GM says "the next morning, you didn't feel the divine aura that normally surrounds you, you have lost your Paladin powers" I ask ¿why? He replies "you helped again a chaotic evil character" the Gm spected of me nothing less than killing the pc for being chaotic evil, despite them not making any especial evil deed. I didn't come back to that Gm table.
It’s crazy how much a DM will wrath a Paladin just trying to not be a buzzkill!
Ok I've never played DnD actually trying to get into it, but aren't Paladins supposed to protect people and Smite the wicked, even though your party members are evil, you noticed that they're not doing anything inherently evil at best some of the things you mentioned they did sound more like very minor inconveniences, the part where the Rogue stole the scimitar back have not things gone south (cause I'm getting the feeling he stole the scimitar to give it back to you as a thanks for saving him) you couldve thank them for their act of generosity but you couldn't take the stolen scimitar due to it being stolen. But sadly the dm decided to just ruin it by changing your character without your consent.
@@LokiToxtrocity Yeah, there is basically three kinds of paladins in dnd. The first one is the "Lawfull stupid" one, basically a holly warrior with too much divine energy obscuring his brain, think the deus Vult dad from the crusader memes, or just the worst tipe of chritian crusader stereotype you can imagine. The second one is the "Supposedly Lawfull Good, actually very neutral" basically picky warriors who just want the nuclear powers of god, without the commitment. The third one is the "flanders one" basicaly a chill dude who tinks of "evil" in terms of the big picture: ¿you stole a dagger? never mind, if i have the chance i will take it back to his original owner. ¿you stole the orb of zot just to sell it to some demon cult and pottentially unleash hell on earth? sorry buddy, i think i have to take your head off, if you dont hand me the orb RIGHT NOW. I roleplay my paladins the flanders style, and for what the other members of the table said to me latter, the Dm is the first kind, constantly saying things like "im an expert on paladins, i have killed many fellow PCs while roleplaying a paladin". i think that what happen at the table was the same that happens when Homer sees flanders doing "good stuff" he just loses his shit.
@@luise.londono6080 in other words that dm would kill a starving child for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his starving dog.
Honestly, this reads more like the DM wanted an all-evil party or something like that. Been watching a lot of Crispy’s Tavern and I’ve seen similar stories where the DM allows a character just for the sake of allowing them, but they’ll unfairly target the player if it’s something they don’t like or try to push them to do something for the sake of their story. One of the main reasons I think that’s the case here is because of that whole “I already have a backstory for him, too”. It felt like the DM wanted a reason to push this character on you to have an all-evil aligned party
I think Paladins are victims of a weird kind of meta where DMs hear you pick the class and their brains go to “paladin= no fun lawful good stick in the mud” and a the idea that making a Paladin fall is something every dm must do at least once
The idea of a fallen paladin can be fun if the paladin is up for it and well thought out. But to the point of dms hearing "paladin" and thinking the person is going to be a stick in the mud is something I've noticed as a player and seeing others play paladin. I think it comes from people just being terminally or chronically stuck on dnd forums/ pages and not understanding that the trope is just a joke cuz of older versions of the game where paladins kinda needed to be good. Or, in one game i joined in, the DM is just vehemently anti-religion
its like they all think "ill be the first person to make a story about a fall from grace followed by the hero's journey." but its so common.
The one time I played a dwarf paladin I was lawful neutral and had a bit of a violent streak. He would be impatient and intimidating, and every combat I tried to break the opponent’s knees with my hammers.
It's always a tempting idea but best when its happens to an npc not a player. That way players don't get bs'd and those that do care about others can see and feel growth as those are the players that get rewareded by the npc from their gear.
The ONE bit of gear the Paladin got was literally only useful in keeping the other characters able to do their stuff. The entire thing was calculated to push the player over the edge.
Glad he got a good group later, but sad he got strung along so long.
Yeah that gifted item felt totally like one last nudge to this clearly annoyed player. It was so cruel to make it break on a 20 too.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Did it break on a 20 or on ANY smite? Given the DM's comment about being tactical about when to smite I thought the latter, which is even worse.
But my comment was actually about the armour that allowed the Paladin to take a hit for an ally. "Let the cool kids do the attacking, just be a meat shield buddy."
I dissagree. I think the DM was pulling a test of faith story for the palidin and the palidin failed. OP was far too focused on other people and failed to realize the SHEER AMOUNT of things a character can do in combat even without spells or attacking. I think OP failed to realize that they were the main character of the campaign. Envy is a sin after all.
@@jesusrodriguez4849 If that was what the DM was trying to do, the DM failed, not the paladin. You don't unilaterally take away a player character's abilities for several levels without checking with the player first. And giving at least a hint as to HOW to pass the test.
And what he could do in combat without spells or attack OR ITEMS, which he also didn't get? Risk his life for low probability gains. You can grapple, trip, push, etc, but if your character isn't built for it, it's an exercise in frustration.
If OP was the main character of the campaign, I think I'd have liked to know in advance that it was based on the Book of Job.
@@jesusrodriguez4849 I think you should never DM.
I'm SO glad OP bailed before the end. You just know that toxic group was taking him for a ride.
Yeah, I’m glad they left too. Whatever plan the DM had for his character arc should not have been dragged out this long.
@@lootgoblinmarketplaceyeah. Maybe 2 sessions at most, tbh. Multiple levels? Thats insane!
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 Yeah, the trope has been done but even in like Legend of Korra for example, when she lost her other bending powers they at least gave her a new one she had to master so it was difficult for her but she wasn't essentially a powerless warrior.
honestly, I'm surprised after everything this OP went through, his oath didn't respark a new kind of Vengeance on those who mistreated him throughout this entire campaign (this is truly ironic).
Yeah it would be cool if he quickly discovered a new Oath, but the man wouldn’t even let him change fighting stances… sadly this DM did not handle this well at all.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Yeah, knowing the DM of this campaign, I can definitely see him gaslighting the player again. Man, this was painful to watch, I wanted to punch the DM square in the jaw.
My dude even took a level in cleric in an attempt to “atone”, probably using wis cantrips or some silly thing
@@isaiahlozano5301 im going to start playing for the first time this Tuesday wish me luck
Yeah, I had a group like this: The DM needs to do something *with* you, not just *to* you. I basically cheated by awarding myself gear appropriate for my level, and swapping out class features that the DM arbitrarily declared no longer worked. When the DM called me on it, I just looked him in the eyes and said "If you don't let me use the mount, or get gear, I'm just going to give it to myself." For some reason, a lot of DMs just have a hate-on for paladins. I've never understood it.
Yeah it’s kind of crazy that DMs will make you “live with your decision” when it comes to character choices. In a game where people constantly reroll characters, I don’t get punishing a player and then making them suffer with dead class features. It should be a team effort to make everyone character have their moments not take them away…
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I mean, I understand making someone "live with their decision" - for the sake of character development - but you don't just withhold information and then punish a character for not knowing what they literally could not have known.
And the delay between depowering and *actual* story payoff is ridiculous: If you're going to do something as drastic as denying them all Divine abilities, you need to make up for it somehow *in mechanics* and *in game*. It needs to be the centerpiece of the campaign, understanding how this happens.
If I chose to do this to a player I’d talk to them and offer something like this; you feel a void in you. You don’t feel the touch of magic and magic passes through you. You are immune to spells that are half your level and lower and regen hp equal to your con mod + prof bonus. You may regen up to half your max hp in this manner.
Seems a lot better and useful right?
@@CS-pe5uz that is precisely the sort of plot hook that would cause a lot of trepidation in a paladin character, without making his character mechanically less useful
It also gives an interesting meta decision: do I go back to my paladin hood? Or, do I continue to be immune to the spells? It gives an opportunity for role-playing decisions that have significant meta-affects on the character development
@@lootgoblinmarketplace It's really something that has to be discussed with the GM. I was playing a Paladin and wanted to do a redemption arc. So talked to the GM. Set the character up as a Paladin whose order was actually a front for a sect of Mammon. He dies and his soul goes to Mammon, makes a deal with a devil to escape hell with him. So the character started off as an Oathbreaker with a Infernal Steed which was the devil he broke out of hell with. And then he went on a quest to redeem himself.... But that was all decided before we played, and even though his oath could have swapped during the campaign, that would be a side powering of the character from one Oath to another, not just having no power till the character was redeemed.
You shouldn't just downpower one character in relationship to the group.
Yea, no, this was terrible. This felt like the DM had a hate-boner for Paladins and took it out on some newbie. And the other players weren't helping. Then again, based on the cleric's attitude during the Bard fight and other stuff later, they were all dicks anyways. Also the Barbarian could totally wear armor! He just wouldn't get to use his natural AC if he did. And Fighters get more than a Paladin that has lost everything!
Yeah they forgot the fighter gets more proficients and feats. I think the Paladin would have much rather actually played a fighter and not what the barbarian called a “fighter”. Imagine if that barbarian had all this class features stripped and he was just there in light armor punching things because the party said “it’s okay you’re just a monk now!”. I’m sure he’d change his tune really quick!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Any of them that lost their powers for 'story' may go 'alright, this is fine' until it keeps going. Everything felt very much just like a big FU to the paladin.
@@RaganuiI agree with your hate boner theory. Its same with elf hate. A lot of people hate paladins in jest and this party sounds like they had at least a running gag of that going.
I used to DM, was always worried about that sort of thing. I understand doing a test of faith thing, but over the course of many sessions and probably at least a few months, it's too much for a newbie character.
@@hmmm348SEVEN. LEVELS. LONG.
That’s longer than most campaigns go for, and this d*** of a DM had him playing an NPC for that long. What, was he going to have him get his standard class abilities back during the BBEG?
@@alphastronghold715 honestly how douchy he was acting he was most likely either gonna kill him off before then just to spite the paladin or give him back his powers after the game has ended with some bullshit excuse. Honestly that dm deserves to have an empty table always.
D&D is about having fun. If a player has a complaint a DM should never say, "It's gonna be fun in a bit. Just deal with it." The story reason was actually BS. "You're God thinks you're dead" isn't great. Especially because the DM dragged it on for I'm guessing literal months. During this time the player has essentially a level 1 character. No wonder OP wasn't having fun. Not only that, but he was stuck with basic equipment. Then he's given level 3 stuff at 10th level or so and a weapon, only for them to work against each other, breaking his weapon with his best ability, used in the manner it should be used on a crit. Then criticizing the player for not using it strategically. Because of course the DM warned him explicitly when he attuned to the item that he shouldn't use divine magic on it. The BS reason of focusing on other characters was contrived. You can focus on other characters without nerfing your other characters. There are only two ways to nerf someone that badly. One, you reinstate their magic immediately. Two, you give them some overpowered items or abilities to compensate. No "I'm a level 3 fighter in a level 12 party" bs.
Totally agree man… idk why a DM has to make the experience miserable so it can be “fun later” there is so many cool ways you could bridge that time. If you don’t want to give him class features give him temporary gear or spell like abilities. If the other players or the DM complained the Paladin was too strong, this is a pretty shitty way of dealing with that.
if a group wants you at the table and you're not having fun, it's ON THEM to make it fun for you, you DO NOT have to compromise your own fun for the fun of others, there's nothing wrong with saying "I'm not liking this campaign, if I can't roll a new character, I'll just bow out until the next one" if they kick you out of the group over leaving a campaign you aren't finding fun, find a new group, they never cared about you having fun
I think that makes sense. They clearly made no effort to make him feel wanted even after the player made it clear he felt unwanted.
The fact the group didn't realize how clutch Aura of Protection is when he described it gets me. By that point, they should have failed several saving throws by a few points, so knowing that they were missing out on an easy +4 should have clicked.
The fact OP didn’t leave beforehand is astounding. Either great patience, or mild stupidity
Learned helplessness. Be the bigger person, aka do not punish the abuses against you
Yeah, I’m convinced he just thought the DM couldn’t possibly be stringing him along for nothing. Too nice of a guy to put up with this for that long.
As someone who has dealt with situations like this while younger, you don't actually see yourself as being wronged until far, far too late. The stuff like "don't be ungrateful" tends to feel true early on. The general thought process this guy had was probably "if everyone is saying I'm ungrateful it must be true, right?" and only actually stood up for himself when it was literally too much for him to take anymore, and even then it was probably still hard. Considering he mentioned he was isolated at university I'm guessing this situation is similar. It's a mindset that takes a long time to learn to change, it took me nearly a decade.
"You're basically a fighter now"
With everything OP is lacking from daily benefits, and mid-late class features, they're closer in comparison to the warrior sidekick, a class intended for intro campaigns or supplemental gmpcs, and that still has more benefits and abilities than what OP was given!
it honestly makes me even more mad that all those players are so dumb at the game. they complain about their tiny trade offs and say "your still so powerful"
they dont know shit about the game and are just complaining.
@@christophercrafte Yeah, that made me figure it might be a bunch of players saying "paladin is too strong" and crying to the DM to nerf him and give them buffs to "balance it"
Sadly I’ve been in OP’s position before. One solution to the unreasonable rulings is meeting them with even more unreasonable/irrational demands and expectations as a response for being so “ungrateful”. It tends to at least force them to acknowledge that you’re getting shafted and left out to dry.
Yeah a bad narrative decision a DM tries to force on a character is common, being convinced they are ungrateful for being targeted like this is truly wild!
Paladin's power doesn't come from a God like a Cleric's or Warlock's, it comes from their devotion to his oath
The excuse of your God forgot about you, shouldn't even apply because his magic comes purely from himself
Not that it matters as the DM and the group clearly targeted to bully him, some people are just rotten and cannot find happiness unless they make someone else unhappy and this group did this, the Barb probably had their doubts but was too much of a coward to intervene, he probably figured if he intervened then his character would be next in line to get abandoned by the story
A lot of DMs don't like that modern take on paladins. I feel it helps avoid the cliché fallen paladin while keeping the option open just on the player side, they can start that story by breaking their vows and nerfing themselves until they feel like they have payed for it. I've never heard of players doing this because it's boring in practice, which should show how stupid it is for the DM to do it.
No DND is definitely better than bad DND. I had my own problems with a group and had to leave. It was really hard to leave because, like the OP, it was my main source of socialization at the time, but I had to get out of it. I'm still not active in playing or DMing, but I'm much happier and focusing on more important things like my family.
Yeah, I think it’s hard to give up on that socialization. I really feel for OP here.
I've only played one campaign with a "fallen paladin," storyline, which could totally have been a horror story, if it weren't for the fact that everyone ended up being on board for the whole thing.
We had a mostly evil party with a single LG paladin who were working together to stop an evil cult from taking over the world. The cult was steadily winning, and (by high level) our party was basically the only reason why the forces of good hadn't been overwhelmed. By that point, the paladin was the only one really dedicated to the task, while the rest of the party was fed up with being forced to throw ourselves into the meat grinder again and again. When we met one of the cult's lieutenant's, he did the classic, "Join me!" speech, and the party actually agreed; all except for the paladin. Since he refused, the rest of the party and the lieutenant ganged up and murdered the paladin. Our DM let us reanimate the paladin as a death knight, and layered a bunch of additional undead bonuses ontop of tweaking his existing abilities. Thankfully, the Paladin player was super down for all of this, and, being a bit of a power-gamer, was hyped for all the undead buffs he got.
That's such bullshit. What's the point of continuing to claim a person is wanted in a campaign if you're getting excluded to that extent? What the hell is the point of wasting so much of their time?
Yeah, every step of the way the DM found a way to double down on making this paladin feel hopeless. There is no story payoff that could make up with like 10 levels of being useless…
Sad to say, but there are some truly wicked people who enjoy tormenting others. This group OP was talking about were some of them.
The fact that the way for the paladin to regain his powers, according to the first person he spoke to with information about how to do so, was to "do heroic deeds and show your faith", and then managed to do enough heroic deeds to level up several times AND become a cleric of that god to pray to them and prove they were still alive without being recognized by his god is insane. Very clearly some sort of vendetta here, or a very poorly planned out story. I almost wish OP had stayed to see the end, just to see what the DM considered to be "worth it" to put him through this kind of thing. Bet it was just some magic items and his powers, plus maybe a new spell, which would've been great before, but oh man, now it's time to take your brand new toys that I held back from you all game and bring them to the next, and last, session of the entire game. Hope you like getting all this new gear and magic, Paladin. You get to use all of it once! But it'll kill the final boss for sure, so that's cool, right? Bet that's where all this was going. Make the Paladin shitty the entire game, but make it up to him at the very end by giving him guaranteed killing blows against the BBEG to make him feel good. Terrible.
It wouldn't surprise me if that campaign never concluded at all.
I’m guessing the DM never intended to return him to full power, just crumbs here and there like when he recovered a use of Smite at the end. They were just keeping him along for the ride to use as a meat shield to protect the characters the DM likes more.
He was gonna kill his character off by the end of the campaign
After thinking about it, I wonder if the DM's original plan was to have the Paladin fall, but that ended up not working out.
It started with the fight with the Bard, who had an Amber gemstone embeded in him which was the source of the power. I think the intended twist was "that gemstone was actually controlling a lawful good bard to do evil actions, so now you're a fallen paladin for striking down a good person". Then when the Paladin didn't end up striking the Bard in the fight, the DM made up some new excuse on the spot which as OP pointed out, didn't make sense with the deity he followed.
Then because the reason for losing the powers was changed, the DM's planned story moments for him regaining powers never happened.
Obviously the DM is still incredibly bad with never giving the player his powers back, not warning him about the Cleric class, not giving him as many magic items, and calling him "ungrateful". But I do wonder what his original intentions were.
This also sounds like 3.5 especially since he had no spell slots left so he could not use smite also the paladin gaining his powers from a God. I personally would have gone fighter or black guard. As fighter he would have hard time saying nope you don't gain anything and black guard or oath breaker could not be taken by the DM.
@@sykune 3.5 smites were separate from spell slots. this was 100% 5e.
@@VimyGlide true but he used his two spell slots on searing smite and I thought he was no longer getting spell slots back so how did he smite with no spell slots?
@@sykune the story very clearly states he had them after the bard fight and never spent them until that point. he wasn't recovering spell slots - he just had them in reserve all the way up to then
edit: also NONE of his paladin stuff was recovering, so even then that wouldn't imply the smites were separate from his spell slots
@@VimyGlide but he used searing smite twice once to climb down the mountain and once to save the barbarian from drowning under the ice. Those were his last two spell slots. So I was trying to figure how he was allowed to smite without having anymore spell slots unless he was granted another one at some point before he smited.
Putting up with that and you didn't cast Fireball (throwing a Molotov cocktail) as you left? You're a better man than me. I'd have made sure they failed their Death Saves...
Yeah, this man was very patient.
I had a game where the DM was having us each play 2 characters. I've mentioned other horror stories from this DM on other videos. One of the players was his brother and he played favorites shamelessly. He would also present the treasure we found in a way that basically picked the character, like only usable by X class or, "Oh, it's a +4 Bohemian Ear-Spoon. Oh, X's character specializes in those." So my Fighter/Rogue was the only one with no magic items, while everyone else had all this tits gear.
Finally, when the party was about 10th level, I was finally "gifted" a magic weapon. There was a dragon traveling with us at the time who could smell magic and said it was more powerful than any other in the party. I was so stoked, even once I found out it was a +4 Vorpal (I hate Vorpal weapons for a variety of reasons). So I'm still flying high, and we enter a room and a monster pops up, and I know right away what it is, because I know the books super good. It's a monster I fear because once per day, it can kill a player, no save (I know, fun, right?). Can any of you guess which character got chosen to die, with not so much as a chance to roll a hot 20 to avoid?
So, yep, I die. He has me roll another character to replace him, and I roll a Pally. They find him shackled up in a room, by which time my good friend, who already had a badass blade, had claimed ownership of the Vorpal. Next room we enter, NEXT ROOM...there is an evil Wizard who casts Charm Person on my friend's character, and has him attack the party (again, guess who?). I fight him for a few rounds, knowing he will get a high enough roll to kill me before he makes a save.
I was right.
So, hey, remember when I said we were playing 2 characters each. Yep, he turns on my wizard. *SHINK* hot 20. I lost 3 characters in about 20 minutes without a chance to make a single roll to prevent it, and before my friend could take another action, he shook the charm with a saving throw. Good times.
Once you spot something like that I'd give 'one' chance in talking to the DM, ignoring anything and everything the DM says, instead watching the DM's behavior. If it doesn't change, it is time to bounce out of that group. At most I'd let offending members know that I find their behavior too disappointing to continue and would just leave without another care.
Wow that is tragic. As a DM even if it I was being generous and saying it was a bad string of luck I couldn’t imagine killing back to back characters, let alone three.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Also important to reiterate, zero die rolls for my character, and the first, most important, death, no die rolls by anyone.
This is obviously up to the DM, but generally, a Paladin's power isn't even granted to them by a deity. It comes from the Paladin's dedication to their oath, regardless of who or what that oath is to. Juat one of many examples of tangible results stemming from the power of belief in D&D. Gods are only gods because they're worshipped, Paladins have divine magic because they're juat that dedicated to their oath.
Edit: wow I feel like once they used one of their remaining slots to get down the cliff, the DM intentionally set up a scenario to expend their last slot 😑
Maybe , but what if Paladin didnt use it to save barbarian? OP was too good for his group.
Warlock be like "(Paladin has) more features than me" and I'm like "what fucking features? The DM took them all away." Holy crap the gaslighting is insane; OP is absolutely in the right to burn those bridges.
bet warlock would have sang a different tune if they lost access to their patron and thus their ability to cast magic as a whole. "yeah i don't care if you have unused spell slots, no patron means no magic, so your spells and traits are forfeit."
This is definitely in the hall of fame of "whipping boy" player stories. If I were the OP I would demand to know at least some of the juicy story that is going to be my reward for being stripped of most of my class features (especially without asking me in advance). Otherwise f!@# off.
Really the referee tipped their hand with the useless magic armor. If it didn't provide an increase to the the OP's character's armor class I would sell that trash immediately. Then tell the c!@# that you definitely know what each character can do. Why did you give me an item that doesn't benefit my character in the slightest? It was the most malicious piece of treasure the referee could give to the OP while still keeping him/her far below the effective power of every other player and also avoiding giving them nothing, which would be the more obvious tell that they don't want them to have fun.
Yeah I was thinking that also, like on the one hand, it coulda been he became some mega god at the end that only he could beat the big bad and was invincible, whilst the other players were pussies.
But that armour, clearly just cruelty lol.
Yeah, this man was definitely getting kicked while he was down the entire campaign. It’s kind of insane, and the worse part is the way it read it seems all to plausible. I can totally see a DM caught up in writing a novel/narrative over a player’s enjoyment.
@@AlexisTheDragonI mean, even if he were to be that badass that had to 1v1 the BBEG, that would be a horrid send-off to the other players, so it wouldn't be a good ending either way.
I can’t be the only person whose blood was boiling more and more as their story kept going.
You are not
Trust me, I felt absolute rage listening to this story, it hit very close to home
The DM being too busy sniffing his own story farts is one thing but none of the other players backing this dude up is fucking insane.
Man, to the OP, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that awful group. It's good you burned those bridges with thay group. And I'm glad you found a much better group and you're enjoying yourself.
Yeah, I’m really happy it ended how it did. Such a bad situation deserves a happy ending.
I really want to know what poseesed the DM to do this? A hate for Paladins should be a banned class, not a nerfed one.
Yeah, if he hates Paladin’s I’d respect him more by just saying you don’t have them in your game. It’s probably a red flag, but it’s more honest.
DMs who nerf Paladins rather than ban them shouldn't be DMs.
When the DM is the BBEG irl
Yeah, the DM was making him roll will saves in real life and antagonized him every step of the way.
Everyone else had 4+ magic items while having no restrictions to their character yet Paladin was made into a glorified fighter with no magic items for who knows how many sessions.
That DM most definitely had it out for paladins from some kind of past experience and chose a table of newbies to enact his "revenge".
And that's f*cking cruel, but the most that can be done is leaving.
glorified? try neutered. by the time the paladin left most fighter archtypes would get a second fighting style, a third attack, action surge, and second wind aswell as more feats.
At the beginning I thought this was such a cool idea and a really interesting concept but the more thag came to light the more obvious it was that the group just sucked *ss.
Yeah this is a great idea with very bad execution. I feel like as a mini arc it’s fun, but this man was expecting him to wait a whole campaign?
When the god of Death coudn't tell if the character was dead, my blood pressure rose.
I’ve had groups just like this but unfortunately it was every single group I’ve ever played with over the course of four different groups. Finally gave up after that so it’s good someone else didn’t lose their love to play,
I’m sorry to hear that. I hope the next chance you get it turns out wonderful!
If you've had problems with four groups, the only common denominator is you at that point.
I never had anything quite like what the paladin of this story went through, but I did have a game with targeted malice and gaslighting from the DM before. It's not fun. I feel proud of the paladin for standing up for themselves when the barbarian tried to mediate things and I'm glad they get to live their best D&D life now.
He turned you into a dmpc
Man got turned into the useless escort NPC against his will 😢
@Loot Goblin, I think it's worth mentioning OP did say they were looking for a different group long before then. It's just that they thought playing with the current group until they found a replacement would be a net positive, as it got them out of the house and socializing.
As someone who likes parts of stories where a character is depowered, there is a huge different between doing that in a written work and doing that in a ttrpg, in a book or tv show it works because no one watching or reading loses anything from this happening, in a ttrpg the player activately loses agency and the ability to play the game the same way as the other players, this story is the Embodiment of why you ask your players what they are ok with you doing to their character
Personally speaking If i were the dm I would have only depowered the Paladin if they were 100% ok with the idea and wanted their character to go through that kinda arc, even then I would have also given them a magic item or two to substitute their lost spells so that while they have lost a lot of their cool stuff for story reasons (probobly a ring of spell storing with spells the player normally used or something equivelant), just because a PC is depowered for naritive doesn't mean your player should feel depowered as a result
Yeah, the DM forgot he has to make the story enjoyable for all players and not just him as an author/creator’s point of view.
Honestly I'd have flipped the table way earlier than this guy, kudos for the patience I guess
Yeah, that’s kind of my takeaway too. Player seems like a patient man so he is probably a good DM now.
personally i would have told dm to go screw himself the second he pulled that, and even if he convinced me to sit in on the next session the second that it turned out that not only was i not being given an option or actual path of which to get my spells and features back, but also because i was doing what another character and the dm suggested by going to the church that i was also getting left out of getting magic items, i'd just get up, pack my stuff and leave right then and there.
Love that the DM says I will allow it like he's doing a great favor, when he constantly didn't allowed the paladin to do squat
Man, This genuinely could have been really good if the DM followed through and actually gave the Paladin something worthwhile.
I've dealt with DM's like these. For no apparent reason, they have a problem with either me or someone else in the party. Worse? Is when the other party members are too self absorbed to notice the DM is being a dick. Then when you get upset with the DM, they put blame on you.
That Warlock telling the Paladin to "Get over it" is prime example of how completely unaware and self absorbed people can be. I hate that selfish mentality.
Yeah it’s frustrating when you calling that out is seen as taking away from the game since they just want it to get to their turn already.
This story reminded me of one of mine I'll share here.
We were playing with the Curse of Strahd, in which it was a party of 6 people. Although I would love to say who is what, we died so often in each session that it isn't worth it. So I'll just point out a few things my DM did:
Refusing to explain terrain or show us what it would be. Refuse to answer any questions regarding ''Am I 5 feet close to the enemy" and all.
If other characters went on to wander off, they'll be hurt, maybe lose a limb at most which we would easily fix with a small quest. For me? I lose every character, and if I encounter something I can't escape and I die.
After making 4-5 characters, I made one called Toast, a cleric called Toast which is a fire genasi.
Eventually we want to wander around, and I got my stuff pretty fine. I healed poeple when I can, and tried my best to keep the healing balanced. Although my party members never communicated to me on if they felt the way I spreaded my healing was unfair.
One of the session, we walk toward a village, in which I fall into a trap. There is one dex save, and it was entirely random. Apparently because I didn't ask to look specifcally at the gate or ground, I wasn't allowed to make a perception check and when I failed, I automatically died.
A bit eh, it was harsh but I shrugged it off. Now here's the part that annoyed me.
A player pulled me aside during one of the session to explain to me that they purposefuly killed off my character cause they didn't like it. When I asked about the dms, she denied all of it but at the time the death of the character seemed far too suden. i was pressured in making a new character, which then got killed because we failed a perception check and the guards took me away to kill me off with no ability to roll to persuade them otherwise. What was the perception check about? Sneaking out of a merchant's shop.
Also other players were allowed to be given massive loots, and I was not allowed to follow the story In character because ''your character is new, they didn't know this happened''. I have lost a character every sesison, and one session I have lost 3.
Each time I was making a character, everytime I wanted to make something strong the dm denied it, and I wasn,t really allowed to play any races other than the really bases ones at the exception of elves and anything that is not medium. The reasoning was to maintain ''balance'', the issue is that this balance always got half of the party wiped except the girlfriend of the dm, and two close friends.
Also, the DM added their own character which was basically a Mary Sue, changing the lore of the world so that he is the one that imprisonned ''Straud'' in these lands but accidentaly did the same on himself, while forgetting how to get out. Also seems to exceed in everything with constant nat20 and shoot fireballs into their own party members.
So I do agree with this video, no DND, is better than Bad DND
If i was in yourplace i would have gone toxic and totally tried to kill the GF's Character at every opportunity i could 😂
There was this one group a friend invited me to and I was curious about playing the Alchemist Artificer class. I asked him if he is cool with this class and he said he was fine since there was other crafters in his game. Since Alchemist is heavily DM dependent, I had to ask him how to make things and gather ingredients to do things. I thought that was fair so as my magic items, I did two Alchemy Jugs to help gather resources. Due to his game having irl time for down time, I had to keep track of what all I was brewing and let the dm know what all was brewing when things updated.
After about 4 months of crafting and playing the game, the DM decided to try to stream line the crafting system by making it token based. He sent out a group poll to get people to vote and I remember seeing only the non-crafters vote for yes. There was only 2 other crafters in this group but I know they were not really crafting either since I talked to those two a lot. The worst part was all the crafting supplies I gained from adventuring and finding on down time, the DM said it was all gone and I would have nothing.
I was devastated from that and the Alchemist is an already bad class. He offered to let me change a month before this but I was having fun trying to make cool things for the party and brew weird fantasy drinks. As the week progressed, I was asking the DM if I could just switch the subclass since 4 months of my life was wasted but he wasn't saying anything. Then one day I see some friends asking me why I left the group and they were really sad, I never left, the DM just kicked me out of the server.
There was more bad stuff about the group but that was the most relevant stuff to the video.
As a lover of paladins, I feel nothing but pure contempt for this group. I saw a comment saying something about the Paladin going oath breaker, but I guarantee the DM just would have told him no.
OK. OK. I love the story so far (I'm at 6:58 currently). It would suck to have this happen to me as a player, going in blind, so I 100% understand OP's frustration so far, but the whole "Paladin can't contact his god, is a shitty Fighter, but then, in the party's darkest hour, the Paladin explodes with Divine might, gaining all of his powers (up to that level, of course), and lays the smackdown on the villains.
Going into that blind would suck ass, but if you agreed on it beforehand, that's a badass fucking character arc!
EDIT: And Immediately I hate this story. The concept is cool, and I can see an argument for it working with most of the gods. But _NOT_ Kelemvor, or the Raven Queen. They're Gods of the Dead. Their entire fucking point is to know who lives, who dies, and (in Kelemvor's case) wipe out all Undead in the Multiverse. This concept would never work as a Paladin of Kelemvor. As _any_ class that worships Kelemvor and gets gifts from him (Divine Sorc, Celestial Warlock, etc.).
Yeah this is a case of a good concept with bad execution and either worse communication by the DM. Plus I agree with you that his god should 100% be aware
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Like... I can see the "god isn't aware you're not actually dead" thing working with a god like Bahamut. Cause he has his whole war with Tiamat going on. Same with Selune and Shar. Torm and Evil in general.
But the literal "My job is to know exactly who is dead, who is alive, and who has broken the natural cycle" Lawful Neutral "I put the Wall of the Faithless back up to protect the people that actually worship the Gods, atheists must be punished", formerly Human, *_Kelemvor?!_* Hells no.
This spiked my anxiety and my anger, OP was well and truly shat on by this group and I hope they're doing much better
Yeah, this is one of the few stories where I get like mad and not just sad.
As someone who's started playing last year. And my first ever dnd character is a blue dragonborn paladin, I would have gone into a fit of rage having had my class basically reduced to this. I would have told him "you have two weeks to give me a way to get my powers back, or else I quit." To just say "Oh dont worry, you'll have your cool moment in the story." Is such bs.
Rewatching this just reminded me of my own experience with bad DM, though it's not nearly as long but back when in my final year of college, my friend and I were big dnd player and had for the past couple of years DM'd for our friend group (mine were mainly Star Wars based and his were set in the forgotten realms) but after the lockdowns the others didn't want to do it anymore after a campaign were all our character were killed and then our back ups were killed too by the same guy (vecna).
However, me and my friend still wanted to play so we found out that there was a group of three who often played in the college so we talked via Skype and we agreed to join the schedule was that during lunch time we would hold miniature dnd session that would lead intro a longer one on Sundays. Our DM was a classmate and a supposedly experienced DM (this was not) and talked about how we should each have a tragic background to help with his narrative, so I chose to be an oath breaker paladin Dragonborn who used to follow Tiamat but had a massive falling out with cult of dragon following the death of his brother e.g. my character accidentally killed him in a mock duel and due to him being a follower of Bahamut caused truce that the two-side had to fall apart. My friend ways a Drow rouge assassin who had escaped the under dark after refusing to kill a family member. But here is where the DM started messing with us both he told me to change the skin of my dragonborn to gold and that his name was 'Setra the Black' also that I was a follower of Bahamut who got exiled to keep the peace with the cult of dragon and my friend was told his last name was do'urden. We did both ask about that since A) my name made zero sense and B) there was a very famous drow with the do'urden, but the DM explained that the changes were to fit his narrative and that my name was die to me having black fangs and a black reputation, as well as my freind was just a relative of drizzt, the others all had thier class changed to both being half elfs, one a rouge and the other a ranger.
The first Sunday session it became clear that he hated Matt mercer, he would often say that mercer was a theft and that he couldn't even do more than voice for his Villans, etc. Often he say about during the holidays we could start twitch streaming our game to show the hacks how it's really done. But it became clear he wanted to turn our characters into DMPC's and to this he started telling the other two players how after meeting they were attracted to each other and began to tell the rouge half elf he should become a paladin for the lady of pain, he also did the same for me and my friend but told me to become a barbarian and for my friend to become a ranger, we both said no mainly since this was the first real session. But this did not stop him from getting the two others to have their characters sleep together half way though the session which was really wired as he went into detail about it.
Skipping forward to the end of the session we things happend that broke the camel's back first Arkhan the cruel turned up and told me I was his long-lost brother, the half elfs to had sex were twins and that my fiend all of a sudden had a panther companion.
Me and freind stopped the DM in the middle of this revelation to ask what the HELL is he doing, he was shocked and asked why we stopped him. We just told that we had no interest in being in a campaign where he dictates who were can play as then takes away all control of them to have creepy fantasy about popular characters sleeping with each other! He acted all shocked and hurt we would think that what he was doing but then we pointed out how he was trying to turn me in Arkhan and friend intro drizzit and that he turned the other players intro vax and vex from critical role just to have a creepy incest scene. His response it worked on game of thrones.....
I asked the other players what they though and one of them responded with 'this how you play dnd dumbass, half elfs are incestuous' and the other nodded, my friend and I just left the call after that, we never talked to them again even when the DM asked about coming back for next Sunday.
Jesus Christ...
Man, guy was the nerfed tank, and with his God being the one who counts souls and can see where they are is kinda BS that he assumed he was dead..
The way the DM went about this was absolutely absurd and OP has every right to have done that
When OP went to the church to see why their god has taken their power the DM should/could have said
Dm: since you passed out so many times your god believed you dead but since you didn't appear in the afterlife (or wherever that gods domain is) they don't trust that you are fully faithful so they took your abilities
And to get them back OPs paladin would have to take the life of a person who's soul was promised to the god (for example one of the Vampires minions) ( well that's what I would have done)
And to curve around the leveling up DM could have given OPs paladin a choice to fill a single spell slot or increase any Stat of their choices
As a DM who strives to make sure everyone at the table is having fun, I am disgusted and appalled. That wasn't a DM. They don't deserve to be titled as such.
Oh wow. I am actually surprised this story has resurfaced. It was covered a while back by if I remember correctly drake, critcrab, and Crowes Perch. So It's surprising that this is getting a lot of attention again. (Not the OP BTW. Just someone whose seen this story before.) I'll give my personal opinion. Yeah there are fair share of pricks. But they were the whole cacti. At best Barbarian was trying to make up for their mistakes (which if true. Good on them!) At worst. Barb was trying that shit again. You're not at fault OP. I get it that its hard to burn bridges especially with people you consider to be close until you're just pushed too far.
It’s truly a classic, which is a good and bad thing. It’s a frustrating story for sure and kind of different than your usually creepy or cringe stories. I think that is probably why it pops up so much!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Probably why it does. These kinds of stories are typically a breath of morbid fresh air.
"you should have been more tactical"
(Legitimately said nothing about the sword breaking if he used it)
On the first round of the first combat of my first ever D&D campaign, my dwarf fighter rolled a crit fail, then rolled 20 on our DM's injury table. My dwarf fighter, with ambitions to become a dwarven defender with a tower shield, chopped his own shield arm off, and broke his ancestral axe in the process. We were fighting a lone warg. I don't know what happened in the second session.
This story was like seeing what I would've gone through if I stuck around. Awful.
Was trying to run a game and met up with a friend from work who mentioned he had friends looking for a new game. I offer to run my game for them and we properly share discords. I go nearly 2 months without any feasible feedback aside from "yeah they're interested but i haven't heard from them". I don't think nothing of it and eventually we get the group together with me making a server to host the game with all the needed lore, required/banned books, and we try to get the group into a VC for a session 0.
It takes nearly an entire month after that before we finally settle on the day, and i'm excited beyond belief to run my first ever proper game (I had run a couple one-shots in the past with friends). Things quickly come crashing down as most of the part is in the call with about 10 minutes or so left before the session would properly start for character introductions which was all I planned for the session and i get a message that one isn't responding to anyone and the other suddenly dipped for some unexplained family stuff.
I think nothing of it and tell the rest of the group that it's fine since nothing plot related would happen and we could atleast get the majority of the group the characters together, and I could work the missing 2 in later.
They say no, instead saying they'd wait another 20 or so minutes as a just incase the missing 2 popped up, but they didn't.
So there I was, sitting at my computer desk with all my supplies having beem meticulously prepared and constantly assuring them that the other two wouldn't miss anything, only to watch them leave the call one after another.
That was the straw that broke the camel's back.
I left a message telling them the game wouldn't work out if this is what i would expect, and (in a very petty move looking back on it) throwing it in their face how i'd basically bent over backwards for the past 3 months just to get this group properly together only to have my time wasted, time that was my life that I would never get back and had been a detriment to my personal life to try and accomadate for them. I only wish i had left as soon as I posted that but it was late and I was worn out mentally. When i woke up the next day, there was somewhere around 10 paragraphs about how I was being an ungrateful child who needed to grow and get enough life skills to learn how to be patient with people and that life wouldn't go my way because i'm not special and other crap like that.
That just further sealed the deal, but i made sure to show the work friend the kind of response i had gottem from the people he was associated with and he seemed legitimately shocked. I have no idea what happened after that as we never got in contact again after that and I haven't seen them since.
To this day I still haven't been able to gather a group of players for any campaign idea of think of and have only been lucky to still play dnd thanks to some longtime dnd buds who prefer to switch between each other in running games and only let me do one-shots like I mentioned earlier even though i've stated that i'd like to do a proper game if given the chance.
It wouldn't even have to be dnd since i have so many systems i've barely even touched.
I’m happy that you shared this man’s story. No one deserves to suffer like that.
Barbarians even get up to medium armor proficiency
The thing is, what the DM did wasn't necessarily a bad thing, they just took it a bad way. Most people will say "you shouldn't take things away from your players" and that is true, especially their class stuff. However, like the DM said, you can do so, for story. But thats the other thing, you need to discuss with your players before you do something like that and see if they are on board, if not, tough luck, maybe try again later down the line or in another campaign. A good example of this happening, is Critical Role, as Matt and Pike's Player had Pike lose her Cleric Powers for a couple of sessions for plot and character growth stuff, Matt and Pike's Player discussed this before hand, so everyone was aware and onboard with it. And Matt adjusted things so that the Party wouldn't be absolutely screwed without Pike for a few sessions.
This DM meanwhile, just took without asking, claimed it was for "story", and strung OP along for 7+ Levels with the promise things would get better. But considering the favortism for the other Party Members, who all got stuff that actively helped them or synergies with their Class Feats, and all OP got was an Armor that invalidates their Fighting Style and a Magic +1 Sword (at Level 12 where you would probably have a +2 or +3 Weapon by then), that shatters instantly supposedly when using a Smite, and can only recharge on a Long Rest. Yeah, no. OP should've left that campaign at Level 7 at the latest. A Good DM, theirs was not
Yeah I agree in concept this isn’t bad, but when you drag it on for so many levels and not only do you not give him a couple of items (even temporarily) to help bridge the gap… it seemed a tad cruel. Like the fact he finally got a magic weapon so he could at least do basic attacks and then it being a magic sword with a habit of breaking when he crits. It just seemed like they had to have known how frustrating that would be.
If you communicate with your player and make sure the plot resolves at a reasonable pace. I think a lot of people would be down for it. From what the story shared it seemed like he didn’t even know how he would get recognized by his god again. I think that lack of communication and a clearly defined endgame is a big reason why it felt helpless! I’d love to see a story where a paladin who lost their powers got it back by proving their devotion to their god and then getting to come back full power against a Big Bad!
If I was at this table I would call out everything
The paladin goes between life and death.
His God: "The risks are too great. Disavow. They'll never know we were involved..."
Take that man's DM license
I’ve reached 12:38 in the video (9 levels of being a pleb fighting alongside demi-gods for you) and I have to applaud your patience. For the story and “you’ll ruin it for the others if you leave” would not be good enough reasons for me. 9 levels!? How many sessions is that? How many hours play? You have the patience of Job!
I definitely feel this was an ongoing inside joke to see how far they can string the player along
Yeah it’s honestly really sad if that’s the case. After reading I’m convinced it had to be!
With players in my campaign that play paladin, If they want a custom oath because they don't want the verbatim wording from the subclass, I let them know that I I hold their paladin to their oath amd if they do an action or break it in anyway I give them a strike and let them know they have had a strike and on the third strike their oath is revoked and their powers are gone. I tell them this from the start so that if they have a problem we can talk about it and we can either agree or I let them play without the strike system or that another class would have to ve picked becsuse it doesn't fit with the campaign I have designed. D&D is meant to be fun for both the player and the DM, and communication is key for that to happen.
I always like players building a custom oath for that reason too. You don’t get bogged down in the rules as written you get to make up your own guidelines so there is no confusion!
Bro I woulda taken an oath of vengeance irl
The title made me think it was a new breed called RPG Tragedy Stories
Honestly some of these are straight up tragic, so it would be a fair thing to call it.
I'm currently immersed in multiple D&D stories through TH-cam videos, and this story is the most disturbing I've watched at the moment. The most distressing part is the group's clear harassment of the OP. they clearly know they are the main source of socialization of this guy and abuse it. It's sickening.
As a paladin player this story hurts. I feel so bad for our paladin player
That was a clear case of bullying.
Yeah it 100% was
The first TTRPG game I ever played was one session of Pathfinder. I played a warforged that I put almost a whole week into drawing, writing backstory for that other players would learn of as each bit of it became relevant. A Warforged Paladin that was basically going to play like a medieval fantasy Robocop. Each character started in a separate place in the wilderness with a great city off in the distance as the only beacon, to kind of naturally guide them there.
The DM decided to kill me off just by throwing Monty Python rabbits at me until I immediately died. It took all of 30 minutes as I killed rabbit after rabbit, only able to take 5 feet of movement towards the city which was probably about 5 miles away. Only 5 feet of movement before the next rabbit. It’s not like I was openly hostile to the first one, I simply did the typical robot thing, scanning it, realizing it isn’t a threat, then walking off, leaving the creature unharmed, and then it attacked me, I had to kill it because it was apparently capable of dealing over a QUARTER of my hitpoints in damage WITH A KICK, and then the next one. And the next one. And the next one, until finally, a 7 foot tall Scorched Warforged Paladin armed with a Kite Shield and Flail was laid low. By a fucking rabbit. DM told me I should’ve left the first rabbit alone. I reminded her that I took one look at it, deemed it not to be a threat, and kept walking. She told me that was apparently enough to anger it. Didn’t play a single session of ANY TTRPG until 2 years later, and even then, I ended up being a total fucking drag to the party, because I suppose that first awful experience made me paranoid. Now I’m working on a genuinely fun homebrew, involving horde-fighting, dieselpunk aesthetics with power armor, robots, and lots of guns, swarms of undead and horrific monsters to fight, wicked flesh-crafting cults to be wiped out. A good old power-fantasy where my players will be stacking bodies left and right, making fat stacks of coin. I’m still looking over some higher CR monsters to throw in there for some added challenge other than sheer weight of numbers. But most of all, I remain determined to treat my players with respect and let them feel powerful. Would anyone have any idea where I could go, like a discord or something where I might be able to get some help for putting it together???
This is a key example of taking player agency and railroading gone way too far.
I know nothing about D&D. But that just seems like bullying.
I can sort of see what the DM was going for. A lot of video games will nerf you or some equipment for a time. Your only sword breaks in a cutscene leaving you with a just barely useable weapon for a while until you can find/buy a new sword. Your powers fail you, leaving you with only your basic abilities, but often you get some upgraded ability soon on top of your old powers.
FF4 literally does the opposite of this. Cecil is a Dark Knight and learns that he can't save the world as a Dark Knight and must become a Paladin. However, this makes you travel through an area with nothing but undead enemies. And Cecil is just barely north of useless against them. You have to rely on your party members to deal with them. In the end, he becomes a Paladin and gains new abilities and can now freely fight the undead.
If this went on for a session or two, I could understand. But this took months and the OP was a punching bag. Like it wasn't bad enough to take away his powers, but to also include enemies that he can't do anything against. It feels like the DM had it out for him from the beginning and used the early engagement as an excuse to bully him. Even the thing with the Barbarian getting trapped in ice, but no one being able to save him until the Paladin used his last spell to save him feels like it was intentional just to nerf him further. God forbid the guy have one spell.
Admittedly this story is all one sided, and we don't know what the DM or anyone else thought, but it's clear he wasn't having fun, if nothing else.
I wish i was there to tell him Paladins get their magic from their oaths, not their gods. Unless that paladin specifically stated that their power comes from the god
The DM forgets something. A paladin diesnt get tge power from their God. Its more like that they gain their powers from believing and their oath. If the paladin continued to follow the oath and the beliefs and such they keep their powers.
Yeah, he punished him in a way that doesn’t make sense for sure. Paladin never broke his oath and his god would never drop the ball on losing a champion like that!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace i mean even if the god did drop him. The paladins powers arent conected that much to religion
It's the multiple sessions that does it for me. From 5th level to 12th level is such a long time even leveling up every other 2 to 3 sessions, even if they were lucky enough to get to play every week thats still over a hundred hours of play time over several months. Thats a long ass time to essentially be a first level fighter with too much health.
Also this DM can suck the big one, Like how do you not realize you are sucking the life out of someone after all that time TO NO ONES BENEFIT BUT A PLOT HOOK THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
I've also had multiple bad first DnD sessions, but I'm really glad that I never really quit, as the third group of mine is filled with my great fiscord friends, and we're going through an amazing goblin party campaign.
This is what happens when every DM and their dad thinks they're Matt Mercer. The moment you start putting more effort into your story as opposed to your individual players, you're playing DnD wrong, full stop.
DnD should be about people hanging out and having fun being a part of something, now we got a bunch of Critical Roll wannabe's making DnD a lot less fun for everyone.
I definitely agree that the overarching story shouldn't matter for a game if it is at the cost of the players! This isn't an opportunity for people to play out your next big fantasy novel or try to make clips for a podcast.
There was no story. If there was story, there would have been clues, plot progression, etc. This was bullying, and the entire group should be grateful that this man is every bit as good as the character he was playing, or they wouldn't be breathing after this.
I feel so bad for OP, they dealt with so much BS. These people definitely had someone against them personally. The only 1 who is kinda redeemable is Barbarian. From what I can tell it seems like the Barbarian actually does care for OP (evidence by them trying to make things better when OP finally snaps), and that they either were in on the plan but didn’t realize how much it was damaging op and far the dm would take it. Or they were told that op was in on everything. I can see Barbarian as the friend that hangs out with them but doesn’t fully engage in the things they do, the friend that’s always there but stands to the side and watches what the others do rather than joining in. I see that they did actually care for OP when they saw and realized how much it was damaging them in the end.
Unless a paladin willingly breaks their Oath there is no reason to take away their powers.
i main paladins in most fantasy RPGs and this story reminds my of a DM i had to basically rules lawyer every action i did because he was looking for ANY excuse to make someone fall.
i can't exactly remember if i threatened to quit if he didn't cut that shit out but the problem ultimately fixed itself when he made the druid fall and it resulted in driud's player throwing a hissy fit and almost TPKing the party over it. he never bothered me about alignments ever again and gave me druid's animal companion as a peace offering.
i still ultimately quit following druid's departure sometime after because the DM was very unrealistic about scheduling games.
Bro after the *second* level up without my class abilities I would have been talking turkey with that DM. That is insane. Glad he had the sense to dip on that asshole.
My take away is
A. Never take away from a player's abilities
B. If you take away from a player's abilities, it has to be a reasonable ask and has to be recovered with a reasonable gain within a reasonable amount of time.
Taking away an entire class' features with the exception of Fighting Styles and Hit Points is unreasonable, taking it away for 3+ Levels and innumerable sessions is unreasonable, and giving absolutely nothing in-return is extremely cruel (and unreasonable).
I’ve heard this story before and I kind of what to hear wtf the dm had planned and what the deal was with the cleric and warlock.
Yeah, I really wish the DM at least said his endgame. I feel like it would be underwhelming after so many levels no matter what.
Kudos to the guy for being so patient...i would have been out of there at the second lv up, if not the first.
Yeah this DM is a good example of what not to be
Agreed with op on their statement of dnd and being happy.
Taking the powers away baecause of the stone couldve been super cool. Maybe put your paladin to the side and offer them that the pearl could offer them some sort of corrupted power to replace those he lost but if he refuses he can always investigate to learn of the stone and find how to get back to himself. Maybe a mix where he uses the stone while looking for a way to recover his powers while keeping the fact that his “recovered” powers are not “Heavenly” anymore. But no way you can do that without talking to the player about it. And not have the paladin be completely useless for more than 2 sessions lmao.