@lootgoblinmarketplace I suspect Craig was more interested in fulfilling his fantasy of sharing his anime-laced imagination and "expert" story telling than he was in running a game people would have fun with, which is probably why he kept trying to control the actions / details of the PCs, to better fit what HE had in mind for HIS story. He only cared about his own indulgence. "Craig looked like he just witnessed the most awesome thing ever." being telling.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Because anime is all cutscenes and they feel cool because everything is planned out for a satisfying conclusion. Craig just forgot that he's not playing an anime lmao.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace also, literally EVERYTHING about Pathfinder is better than 4e EXCEPY monk. I mean if Jake wanted a decent monk, he could play 3.5 (or later 5e), but 4e? Like...does it even HAVE a Monk class? And if it does, it's probably just literally "reflavored fighter" instead of its own thing...so objectively worse then Pathfinder Monk
@@davidspring4003 I know any of my friends who got sad a 3.5e feature didn't make it into Pathfinder usually got those things as an easy homebrew port at all my tables. It would be very easy to give Pathfinder Monk anything it was missing!
I feel like having an aloof hero type NPC can be fun like a Gaston, but if the party hates him because you forced him too hard... that is on the Craig haha.
I don’t understand how anyone can continue playing with someone who forces you to roll self control on kids. That’s just a clear indication that something’s wrong with that person. Woulda got up and left. Probably gave home a piece of my mind too, I understand not everyone has the ability to just initiate confrontation like that, but you need to nip shit like this in the bud.
That may have been one of the most horrifying things I’ve heard. Most the story was your standard player/DM who wants to be the center of the universe and is creepy, but after that I’m shocked the other players would want to be in a room with them.
Like I don't even mind dark themes, even in that nature I actually enjoy when games get extremely uncomfortable or enraging, but I do think it's messed up to force someone else into that kind of situation in a D&D campaign. It's definitely something you need to warn your players of to see whether or not they're fine with it. Especially if you're gonna be explicit about it. Most people can't even handle child murder let alone SA.
After a one-shot where I built what I thought was the most evil villain possible to forge an immediate party unity, I have developed a policy about violence against children. That policy is basically this: If a kid is ever harmed or killed, it always happens "off-screen." The reason for this is that the villain I chose to build was a fallen paladin posing as if he never fell, via the use of an Amulet of Undetectable Alignment. He would routinely collect local orphans under the guise of raising them in the faith and seeing which of them would hear the "Paladin's Call." In reality, he was taking them to a temple where they would be beaten into submission by the previous batch of abductees, now acolytes of the villain's deity. Well, when the party approached him, he tapped the nearest and tallest 2 acolytes on the head, releasing a pair of modified Hold Person spells on them, then picked them up by an ankle each, and started wielding them as weapons. The catch is that the party was meant to capture this PoS alive to be punished publicly by the church he had been defrauding. I had people wanting to hit me out of character, and by the end of the session, was disgusted with myself, and I ultimately shredded the character, never to even mention him again.
The Craig Saga is a classic. It's one of those sagas where you have someone do a lot of highly questionable decisions with no understanding as to why those decisions were questionable. I can't really fault the enthusiasm. But the results really speak for themselves.
It definitely is a classic. I definitely feel like a lot of players can be a Craig (at least in the sense that they try to be the main character as a first time player and a tyrant as a first time DM) when they start out, but the fact he never grew is what makes this a true horror story.
"I'm gonna introduce you to a brand new game system, but you're not allowed to read any of the rulebooks or have stats over a specific level." _What could possibly go wrong with this game, I wonder._
@@lootgoblinmarketplaceI like that way of thinking. Even in failure we can still find good stuff. Also yeah I kinda wanna steal that setting too lol. Almost like a fantasy version of the Metro 2033 series.
Ah, what a classic. I still can't comprehend Craig as a person and i am still doubtful if it's a truly real story... But, either way, it's a fascinating case indeed.
Yeah, you always have to wonder what is fake or embellished a bit to make the problem player in a story seem even worse, but I definitely believe this saga is more fact than fusion. At least the Part 3 feels very real about a DM crying that his DMPC is getting the emotional payoff he demanded and then losing interest in the campaign after derailing it yourself. It seems like a player that probably doesn’t self reflect very often.
Listening to the final story, I started imagining if Elijah was wielded by another player, the Franklin scene would be a moment for a character arc. The idea being that what Craig wrote is the lore he tells people to make himself seem big. In reality, “Dollface” either does not exist or is a nurse who has no interest in him. All his life, he has been posing as his dream life, blinding sometimes even himself of the truth. What I imagined is in this alternate scenario, being told off by Franklin, Elijah just freezes up, broken and humbled, he goes to the back, uttering no words for the rest of the drive. From there, this would either lead to his destruction, or his growth to better himself and maybe eventually join the police force.
K yeah this was an awful awful experience... But my only shred of empathy for Craig: don't interrupt your GM. They've been thinking about this all the time between game. It's exciting for the GM and when you interrupt you really ruin their fun. Like Craig is a problem, but lots of players do this to all kinds of DMS, not just problem ones
I once got yelled at for rolling my eyes as a dm went all gary stu with his dmpc. I learned to have a new policy. I'll no longer interrupt a bad dm, or a ego centric one even with a eyeroll or a sigh. I'll just get up and leave the table/call/ chat.
I dunno. Considering D&D games have escalated to people constantly trying to rape underage NPC's, threatening to arrest DM's, breaking arms, pulling knives, and sexual assault, Craig is becoming...quaint.
so the first game he DM'ed i dont think is that bad of a concept on paper. basically tried to make the anime powers more akin to Final Fantasy, where you get smaller boosts of power leading up the huge reveal of being "a warrior of light" kind of deal. but it seems he didnt ever get to "the big reveal" part, and just kept building slowly. basically an EDM song that never reached the drop. edit: after that ending, given the inability to separate player from character, i would legit be worried hed come back with a real gun later in the future and try to like "roleplay" his deranged theater cop irl
Yeah the first two stories I really did see how it could be a bad communication thing that he was too immature to handle. It’s weird to give someone their “ideal GF NPC” then 180 their character. Then with the next story you seen him try something out but it could be awkward due to inexperience. By the end of it I too lost any sympathy as it appears he never improved.
The ONLY time ive ever had a "forced to roll to avoid "forced" sex" was in a predesigned campaign, not homebrew. In an optional area and the entire party was told that this was in the module and asked if we wanted to keep it or just trade it for something else. We all agreed we were grown up enough to deal with it and were assured none of it would be role played as it would be a fade to black now make consecutive saves scenario. When we then entered that area we were again reminded of that room and the dm checked in to make sure it was fine. Handled well. None of us died to the "Compulsion" that essentially produced immense lust over any who enter and fail a save, designed to pretty much force exhaustion or death.
Craig strikes me as someone who never grasped that pen and paper RPGs are a game *and* collaborative storytelling. It's an ensemble cast, and the story takes a backseat to the hands of fate; nobody likes a fiat to fail, sure, but killing off a BBEG in a "cut scene" is even less satisfying in tabletop than it is in video games.
We invited a new guy named Craig to our Superhero rpg. We had been gaming for 6 years, and each player had invested a lot of lore for the player characters. We were welcoming even though Craig's character was the most annoying thing ever. We learned he had the power of a god, and ended up undoing everything we had spent years in real life building. The last game most of us got up and walked out of the game mid-sesson.
I will admit. Craig was just so...I waited until the first interaction OP explained before getting red flags immediately. I would have been mortified at the initial reaction when Rei was initially explained. Heck, I WAS mortified. I would have been talking to both Craig and OP about being uncomfortable immediately at the aggressive nature there. The whole story sent chills up my spine and I think Craig was at least a little bit romantically interested in the OP which was to the blatant favoritism. I feel like a shower now. Otherwise, Beautiful reading @lootgoblinmarketplace You kept a calm that I wouldn't have.
We had a guy make a snobby rich waifu character that ended up getting killed because he attacked a named NPC that was definitely a powerful magic user, and he attacked unprovoked. We were hired as bodyguards for a caravan from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep, and there was this one cart that was extra fancy (think enclosed stage coach you could sleep in). Obviously a VIP, and had his own bodyguard. We had identified the wagon as suspicious as it was a total dead spot using detect magic, which we determined meant he must be shielding it from magic somehow, maybe an anti-magic field. Most of us decided to leave well enough alone, as he was not posing any kind of threat to the caravan - which again, we were hired to protect and escort. However, this guy in our party, his waifu character caught a glimpse of the occupant when the wagons circled up for chow, and the bodyguard brought the man his meal. We didn't know this, because the player didn't communicate it, but they recognized him as her family's dark secret was they were cult members, and the waifu had seen this man at the cult gatherings. She was privy to information nobody else in the party had, and he was in fact a badguy. So without explaining herself, the waifu demands the rest of the party work with her to attack this guy, and question him. From our perspective, we'd only been a party in-game-world for less than a week. We were all still basically strangers, and had no reason or inclination to blindly trust some stuck up bitch who acted like we were all beneath her. So we told her to go pound sand, that if she wanted to fight him, we won't stop her, but we won't help her, either. She takes great offense to that, and attempts to leverage her sorcery charisma against us in a persuasion check, but the DM said, "Dude, no, they are players, not NPCs. You can't just magically persuade them to play the way you want to play." That was the right call, because above table, we were like, "We're only level 2, and not to get too meta, but this dude is a named NPC with magic powerful enough to block detect magic. He'll likely kill us all." So in character, we're all basically saying, "I wouldn't go starting fights that don't need to be fought. We ain't paid to attack our own caravan. If we do, word will get out, and nobody will ever hire us again. So forget it." Over and over, we warned the waifu to not mess with the guy. Well, they attack the bodyguard. The bodyguard screams in pain as a firebolt hits him in the face. This alerts the hidden bodyguard, a wight, and now it's 2v1. She attacks the wight, too. This commotion has now woken up the high level sorcerer trying to sleep in his wagon. He pops open the door, a spell readied in his hand (DM announces it's a held action that will be released if he gets attacked again), and demands to know who dares attack his bodyguards. The waifu refuses to pick up what the DM is putting down, and instead of resolving the situation with words, she starts to cast a firebolt, and the DM says, "Roll DEX save [I forgot the save number, but it's high. Really high]." She rolls the save, and fails. Keep in mind she's a level 2 sorcerer (1d6 hit die), and I think had maybe 12 HP at most. Upon failing, she's hit with 10d6+40 force damage. She is instantaneously turned to a pile of ash. Our barbarian Minotaur takes a bite out of an apple, and says, "Told 'er not to do that," and my fighter dragonborn just goes, "Hmph," nodding in agreement, arms crossed. Our reborn Twilight Cleric shakes his head and says, "Pity. Not even I can heal that mess." DM says, "Roll new character." At this point, the guy controlling the waifu loses his damned mind, insisting she's not dead. We play on Roll20, and he drags her token back onto the map. The DM deletes the token, and is like, "Bro, no, she's dead dead. Dust. Donezo. Roll a new character." The guy now has a total meltdown, and starts dragging dozens of his token back onto the map, hysterically claiming she's not dead, insisting, absolutely enraged, like on the verge of tears, and fighting the DM's attempt to delete the tokens. The Dm keeps telling him to re-roll charcter, and then he's like, "FINE! I'll re-roll her identical twin sister! You guys don't steal my loot!" And the DM is like, "No, not happening, roll a different character. Everything was disintegrated; there's no loot to be had." We had no magic items or anything like that. She was just wearing starter gear. Even gold gets disintegrated as per spell description that only magic items survive. Gold ain't magic. He threw the biggest tantrum I've ever witnessed an adult man throw. Screaming, cussing, crying, you'd think the DM had just disintegrated his mother or something. Holy shit. He then directed the blame on the rest of the party for not helping in the fight, and we were like, "Bro, we told you it was a bad idea, and that we wouldn't help. You did this to yourself." He's in total meltdown at this point, tells us all to fuck off, and leaves the Discord group. Bizarre. Like dude, you were only level 2; re-rolling a character at level 2 is no big deal.
The slow drip weak mortals for Exalted is wild! Solar Exalts are not just demigods, but top tier ANIME DEMIGODS! All caps intended there. They do shit like dodge a cloud of razors that scour a mile wide swath through a city when they were in the center of the AoE or block attacks that could cut a boulder in half with their bare hands. It is a super fun game for a small group so you can let characters really show off in crazy ways.
Wow, this guy has to be the lolcow of Dms. I can really relate to the fact that Craig was that type of friend that drains energy instead of adding. I encounter that kind of people and they seem to not realize how difficult is to deal with them sometimes
8:42 "... ST, which appears appears to be the Dungeon Master term they use for this game" As someone who is familiar with the Exalted system, yeah that's it. ST is short for "StoryTeller" and is your host for the system. To add some meta knowledge and context to that section of the story: >The "no skill over 3" is kind-of an actual rule. The game considers 2 to be "generic/average", 3 is above average, and 5 is legendary. There's a bonus trait you can take where you are so generic-looking that noone can remember what you look like, but it requires you to have Appearance 2, no higher no lower. HOWEVER, This is usually only applied to SKILLS, not attributes, and even then you get like 15 Bonus points that can be spent during Character Creation which CAN raise your skills up to 5. >"Unheroic heroic mortals who have yet to Exalt." Uh, what? So, to approximate this to D&D as best as I can: A Mortal starts at Lv1 and caps at Lv5, and can't use any magic at all, where as Exalted start at Lv4 and can go all the way up to Lv20 or higher. All Exalted start as Heroic Mortals who are chosen by the gods (sorta), with Heroic being a definition of scale not alignment. All Adventurers in D&D are "Heroic Mortals." An Unheroic Mortal would be the barkeep or town guard. Exaltations explicitly do not choose the meek to become champions. >"Mask of Winters" is a fairly big stock-badguy in the setting... I know little about D&D's world, but the closest analogy I can think of would be name-dropping "Strahd" >I don't think the Familiar background allows you to have a shapeshifting pet. Familiar 3 gets you either a panther OR a human-smart cat that can "talk" to you (Analogy, Teekl from Young Justice), Familiar 5 gets you both in the same pet, but no magic powers. But with Craig as ST, I'm not surprised it was allowed. Edit: With what the familiar turned out to be, I'd say she would be properly represented by the Allies background instead... at rating 8 or higher. >Knowing Terrestrial Sorcery at character creation while being mortal... legally possible. It means your character has underwent at least two eye-opening experiences about the reality of the world (One to awaken their Essence, which all Exalted get for free, and one to undergo the trials of Sorcery, which even Exalted must do), and probably had to min-max his stats to pull it off (Mortals start with Essence 1, Exalted with Essence 2, and Essence 3 is required to learn Sorcery). It is exceptionally rate in-universe, but it IS possible. >Elaboration on Charms: Some charms can be outrageous, others are basic. A Paladin's Smite would count as a Charm, as would a Bard's Inspire. Charms form the basis of the game's system, being basically every ability besides basic move and attack. >Sorcery as charms... oh boy. Sorcery is MUCH different in Exalted than D&D. First, you initiate casting on one turn, and then launch the spell at the beginning of the next turn. If the spell is a higher tier of magic (there are three tiers total), you have to spend an additional turn casting per tier. This consumes one Willpower per tier, which players start with about 7 and caps at 10, and you recover approximately 1d3 to 1d5 Willpower per long-rest. The payoff for this insanely costly system is first-tier sorcery lets you turn someone's bones into lava (or cast Fireball), while third tier sorcery lets you fire an anime pillar-of-light that erases everything in a 100-yard radius of impact. >Tattoo Solar... I can't completely discount the concept of tattoo-powers as being possible, but Solar is no and prototype is most likely no. There is an example of Tattooed Exalted, however; Lunar Exalted, which are werewolves/shapeshifters. >Lost Demon Queen Raga... I'm just going to say that Demons in Exalted do *not* work that way. Short version is when the Gods (who created the Exalted) overthrew their creators, said creators were thrown into a pocket dimension as a prison. Those former creators (and their lesser servants) are Exalted's demons. Four tiers, with multiple lines of text explicitly saying that the Fourth Tier can NEVER escape (at least not without breaking the whole prison open) and are the physical terrain of the pocket dimension. A Third Tier demon is an equivalent power-level to Tiamat or Bahumut (minimum) and don't even get proper statblocks, Second tier is probably as strong as an elder dragon, First tier are your basic mooks. >Sidreal Exalted... Solars are Paladins, Lunars are Druids, Sidereals get all sorts of fate-related nonsense. People exalt as Sidereals because fate says so... that's pretty much it. Being hugged to death though should have turned her into an Abyssal, though.
Absolutely disgusting. I would NEVER do that to one of my players! They took an npc they knew one of their players adored and lobotomized her off-screen. Ruining the countless hours of player investment into the romance between their character and the npc. I don't condone the immature way Craig reacted and behaved. But he had every right to feel angry and betrayed.
I do agree that in the first story especially you see that Craig’s frustration isn’t unfounded. I think it’s good in these stories where you can see how while a player might not handle situation maturely it isn’t always a one sided situation. I think that while Craig wasn’t always solely in the wrong in these stories, I feel like all players can have their bad moments but you aren’t a problem player until you repeat bad behavior and don’t learn to be accountable and grow!
@lootgoblinmarketplace It was a long while ago, but I actually found the original reddit post and read the comments. Apparently, the change in personality was due to the emergence of something that was dormant within her. So in other words, it was always going to happen.
Totally agree. Craig had clear issues, but just yanking someone's love interest away and returning them completely changed is kind of spitting into the face of what had been built thus far.
@@Mant111It would’ve been fine if Craig wasn’t using the romance as personal wish fulfillment. As OP said, the romance could have continued, or they could break up and work to come to terms with that, and it could have been a compelling story. OP just failed to understand the extent to which Craig was projecting himself and his fantasies onto the characters
@@ViVi1159-d1 I mean, that's kinda the point. Changing the character completely like that, out of nowhere and seemingly for no reason would've pissed off anyone. It felt like a move that came from spite.
Judging by the contrast of how OP ran things to how Craig ran things, I believe the reason he said he hated OP the most was because he felt unreciprocated; in that, in most of Craig's games OP was the favorite and so Craig probably felt he should have been favored in kind. But OP, as far as we know, never played favorites.
The meltdown story revealing Craig as a devotee (people who are sexually attracted to disability, often in a one-dimensional way) is incredibly revealing, as a disabled person.
I am unsurprised that the disability community has a parallel term to "chaser" among trans folks, but it's odd that this is probably the first time I've heard the actual term.
@@ConvincingPeople it’s not something most disabled people like to talk about because it’s a depressing topic in the community, as I’m sure chasers are in the trans community.
OF course, it has a term for it. I've seen this before, and never really got it. Sure, someone hurt or disabled need your help, and this triggers your instinct to protect and provide, but to have a, quote: "Sickly wheel-chair-bound pretty girl that need your help for everything" sort of person as your IDEAL PARTNER is absurd. My ideal partner is someone whos physically and mentally fully sound. Who has compassion and empathy towards me, and preferably, others. Because if they have those things, then they are someone who would not betray you over their own gain or ideology or such a thing (divorce for financial gain, betrayal because your man-hating ideology says so, etc.) and they would be someone you can rely on to carry their own weight to an expected, basic degree, so they can have your back and you theirs. When I was younger I used to think this was just the default, the norm, but it seems with 'devotees' 'feeders' 'chasers' etc. etc. a lot of horrible exceptions exist.
@@tereninsecundus6084 I mean, as a disabled person, I’d argue that I’m still “fully physically sound”. My limits are just different than most people (reminder that there are paralympians who can outpace 99% of abled people). I want a partner to walk in life and support my load as I’d be there to support their’s. The issue with devotees is that they don’t see disabled people as people who have autonomy and can handle a load physically. They take both loads, treat disabled ppl as near-objects, and expect to be praised for their efforts.
@@1bendykat Indeed. As example, 'That Guy' in question here literally treated the 'ultimate waifu' of their like a broken doll. FFS, at that point you can just get a flesh-light and be done with it. My specific 'ultimate traits' picks as elaborated on above don't care for any one specific disability - I have one myself (I won't specify) but I function more than good enough to handle myself, I live alone and need minimal oversight or help with anything. If I met someone meeting my 'terms' so to say I couldn't care any less if they had some disability as well, we would just back each other up and face life together. The 'broken doll' is completely unable to do that on any equal level. What they can do is in fact very limited. And it sounds indeed like 'That guy' would not be in favor of letting them handle even what little proverbial weight they can, taking away what little validation and sense of self-worth they might have.
Thr submissive part would be more worrying if i knew to what point did he take it. For me the whole roll to stop your charecter from graping a child is the moment he would be kicked from the freind grouo like. The heck is wrong with you at that point
Ok, with the second story... I don't want to victim-blame here, but OP let Craig get away with WAY too much. The very first "roll to avoid giving into urge" should have been where the line was drawn.
I do think that this is a good call out. It’s important to realize that some behaviors need to be contested immediately and if they continue to try and do it then it’s time for one of you to part ways with the game. Sometimes being agreeable or passive to a fault can allow a problem player to get out of hand.
Craig is the most horrible person. Hes one of those guys you question how you even met it feels. BUT even I felt a tad bit angry about the romance at the start. Like maybe there was ya know. Plot. But why change the love interest into such a 180? That whole story boggled my mind. Craig could have handled it differently but that time it felt like the dm instigated it with," Yeah i changed their love interest fully and uttlery, but like whats the problem?"
Well, the way I read it, OP was very uncomfortable with the reasons and ways Craig fell in love with her(her being submissive, the "let me carry the unconscious girl" shout), and probably part of the "reasons" to her character changes was to not endorse such behavior of a friend. Soo, I agree with the "It's understandable that Craig was quite upset" part, but I would call you to reconsider the "why would OP do such a thing, it makes no sense", so that if some1 irl tells you about being orded around or other controlling/manipulative behavior by their love intrest, you could give more support/advice to such person than "what's the problem, seems fine to me"
Alright the romance thing in the first campaign, I'm gonna assume that the character changes for Rei had something to do with either Rei having gone through some kind of in game character arc that changed her around or the ST losing inspiration for her perhaps so they wanted to change her around? I definitely do think that fucking with like important character relationships for your players without previous consent is a big no but....the immediate interest the dude had in Rei plus with how Craig is described as someone who enjoys anime in a rather.....concerning.....way, would've skeeved me the fuck OUT, I would've fucking went on from then like heeeey guys I can't do romance so don't expect any, power to the ST for committing to it but with how Craig's character was built and the knowledge he's one of those anime fans, I would've been like 'yeah no I'm not writing an anime subplot sorry.'
Craig should be in jail for the Underage Girl character. Because it implies he's a Freak who wanted to make Z'eal himself That Elijah character is the worst creation ever
Craig reminds of myself when I was younger. I...had a lot of issues growing up that didn't get resolved and regrettably, they got taken out on multiple people that really did not deserve it. Screaming? Did it. Curse people out? Absolutely. Stand out example is when I was trying to play a character trying to be good and accidentally started the apocalypse, an apocalypse that took form of an Organization 13 member, which I thought was lame. It was...bad. You can't really do anything for people like this, you just need to distance yourself from them and maybe check in every few years to see if they've changed. Maybe. You know, if you really want too.
I think your right about the abbreviation being story teller. Functionally I tend to think of them all in terms of Dungeon Master or Game Master but that’s my D&D upbringing showing
I may be wrong, Exalted 2nd edition, Kara sounded like an alchemical exalted, which are sort of like the beta test for exalts, I can get behind the idea of starting off as mortals in an exalted game and coming into the power in game, but not drip feeding it the way he did, its supposed to be a sudden glorious change when all hope seems lost, a time when your character's options are "run away and hide" or "get up of the floor, bloody and bruised, brace yourself, and try to throw the velociraptor running 32mph at you" (at least for solar exalted, sidereals are basically kidnapped taken to heaven and instructed in what their role will be, as other sidereals have divined that your going to exalt at some point, Lunars are similar to Solars, Abyssals are basically given the option of "die and fall into the abyss, or exalt as one of the deathlords favoured knights, be bound to them and do their bidding, and Infernals in a twisted play on the solar ones are the people who had the option to be heroic, but chose to run and hide instead (abyssals and infernals being different flavours of corrupted solars) will say though that not reading the setting of the game could be done well, as a large number of tribes in the world setting have little to no outside communication with the outside world and may not speak the same language or know much about the scope of it beyond a range of 100miles of their hamlet. but to do that there would definitely have to be a session 0 where the Story Teller (ST) gives an outline of the setting, some interesting things (like the underworld, hell, faeries, gods, primordials, spirits, mutations, dino people, the 5 elemental poles and directions etc)
Monk is crippled in PF? I played a monk in PF once.. he was completely broken and it was kinda boring how absolutely overpowered I'd accidentally made him. Pretty sure I got like 12 attacks per turn, over half of which were against flat footed with all of the bonus damages... Pretty much "1 shot" everything. Trip monk is no joke.
10:20 What's wrong with the hag? Its actually a lot more creative than "expert tracker with bad social skills whose tribe got wiped out. Like wtf people
As much as I understand the need to play and gain those stories, all those people over and over again kept engaging with said Greig, enabling his god-child-syndrome, and every turn genuinely act surprised like it never happened before
If anything the Aloof character probably would've been good as a twist villain if done right. Get the party to like em and at the one point betray them. After all, nobody betrays trust like Gaston.
I can't believe these players tolerated this guy for an entire campaign let alone several. My character might be disposable but my time certainly isn't and if someone like this child chooses to waste it I'd rather cut my losses and just leave.
minor nitpick about the exalted story: during character creation 3 is indeed the max allowed, 5 is the max you can reach with character growth. it's like this for all story teller (ST) systems, which is whitewolf's in house system
Craig is this typical hentai main character, who is stalking girls, coping that he has a slightest chance. I almost turned the video of because if disgust and cringe I had been feeling while listening. He is so cartoonish in all of that almost like he is not real, and was just created to be made fun off, like some show characters, if u know what I mean. Thx for reading, btw. Made me feel this DnD vibe, actually. Not the best one in terms of emotions left from the story, but still really interesting. and your voice really does make it to enjoyable experience. 😁
Yanking away someone's NPC girlfriend only to have her "returned" completely changed would piss off anyone who spent maybe weeks and weeks on end building an RP relationship with said character. I feel like the problems that Craig created in the second story where a followup to the issues the DM caused in the first. If you show players that the DM can treat them however he wants without any concern for their feelings, efforts and time investment, you risk that same rule getting adopted and repeated once those players become DM's themselves.
We hac players who would take scenes from other charaters that were more suited to it. Charisma scenes for example. Ill never forget the time my character told a council that a kid shouldnt be lunished for the crimes of the grandfather, and another player butted in parroting exactly what i said. The DM of course, listened to him.
I'm just super confused that he had to go 'change into outdoor clothes'... like put on a jacket? Or did he bring a second set of clothes to change into? Very strange
I don’t think I have gotten to that part yet but where I live one could certainly put on a pair of long-johns or something like that before going out in the cold.
No, honestly, I think there was no better way it could have ended. Craig basically kicked himself out due to being unable to separate himself from the fantasy. I hope Craig gets help. With Craig seeing himself out, OP and the rest of the group didn't have to expend any negative energy.
No surprise this jerk friend was able to railroad everything and got his way. I'll bet he would play with him again if he came back and fed them some cookie cutter BS about growing as a person and slowly slip back into his old ways once ge got back in. And I hope he does. OP sounds like a pushover. OPs mushy "high road" takeaway that sounds like something from an after school special about dealing with bullies is what enabled the dude. This wasn't just 1 game. I would have started avoiding gaming with this dude after the first game.
Why even DM for a group if your goal isn't for the players to have fun? Like the goal should be for everyone to enjoy themselves and in a game like D&D you're just not going to get that "perfect" game without hyper controlling everything.
Yeah I agree that I see a lot of wasted potential in these stories plot wise. The good news is you can always take what you’d like and try to spin it for your game. Keep all the fun content and none of the horror!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace This is fair actually, I don't DM but if I ever get back into tabletops I'm probably just binging stories here and go at a friend like "hey look at this thats cool as fuck run something similar if you want"
if there was more information about the setting, but Kara and the other women sound like they are characters from Kuroinu: Kedakaki Seijo wa Hakudaku ni Somaru and a bunch of other hentai anime.
Honestly it sounds like Craig would be a lot happier spending his free time writing shitty novels instead of running TTRPG campaigns. Some of his ideas are cringe and some are okay but his biggest problem seems to be that he considers the players to just be obstacles to his storytelling. So, cut out the players, just write the stories instead.
Seems like the dm is interested in a profane/ horror setting, about loss and corruption. Also the players are very uppity about their morality, so to a dm trying to tell his story, is this a glass house situation. Also communicate and setting expectations seems to be lacking on all ends, especially from the story teller.. but live and let learn..!
First story with the waifu: Why was the waifus personality changed? The writer just skipped over it. I know i would be pissed if my characters love interest drastically changes for no reason and then for the writer to say the change was for the better? No dude. Craig was deep into the roleplay, not unnatural for the D&D community and he made side stories that were good and well received. DM in the wrong here.
Kinda have to agree here. If I was deep into a campaign and with an established RP relationship with an npc, having said character have a 180° change in personality for unexplained reasons would feel quite arbitrary and wasteful of my own roleplaying. Sweeping it under the rug as "and so they grew apart, it happens" just doesn't cut it. Craig had good reasons here to be pissed, I would say.
@@Mant111I think the reasons are implied by the story. Her strict upbringing forced her to be a certain way then she spent an extended period of time somewhere else and when she returned the personality that was forced upon her had vanished. I have seen things like that happen in real life and it did not take a long time.
Roleplaying with other people means you have to adapt to things outside of your characters control. If you are not willing to do that then write stories instead. The DM did not explain the details here but the clues are there.
@@Shannon4710 Even if that was the case, you have to make that understandable to the person who's roleplaying at your table. You can't just sweep it under the rug with a kekw.
@@Mant111 Considering how the people in this story acted otherwise I don't see anything suggesting that the DM didn't make that reasonably understandable to the people involved.
Over an hour of narrated cringe for your viewing pleasure! Share your thoughts on Craig and someone you’ve had that remind you of him!
It was amazing, and I enjoyed the entire video.
Dude, you know that practically like throwing yourself on a grenade , right? Lol
The way Raga one-shots a boss battle instead of the players frustrates me to this day.
Yeah idk how Craig thinks that making every boss fight a cinematic is cool…
Same.
@lootgoblinmarketplace I suspect Craig was more interested in fulfilling his fantasy of sharing his anime-laced imagination and "expert" story telling than he was in running a game people would have fun with, which is probably why he kept trying to control the actions / details of the PCs, to better fit what HE had in mind for HIS story. He only cared about his own indulgence. "Craig looked like he just witnessed the most awesome thing ever." being telling.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace Because anime is all cutscenes and they feel cool because everything is planned out for a satisfying conclusion. Craig just forgot that he's not playing an anime lmao.
@@StSubZerolads if you’re like Craig, don’t DM. Your efforts would be better placed in making visual novels
Jake: prefers D&D 4e to Pathfinder because of Monk
Jake: doesn't even play a Monk.
I thought that was weird too. They must have been really done with monk…
@@lootgoblinmarketplace also, literally EVERYTHING about Pathfinder is better than 4e EXCEPY monk. I mean if Jake wanted a decent monk, he could play 3.5 (or later 5e), but 4e? Like...does it even HAVE a Monk class? And if it does, it's probably just literally "reflavored fighter" instead of its own thing...so objectively worse then Pathfinder Monk
@@davidspring4003 I know any of my friends who got sad a 3.5e feature didn't make it into Pathfinder usually got those things as an easy homebrew port at all my tables. It would be very easy to give Pathfinder Monk anything it was missing!
You might have preferences even if you don't play certain class or something, I really like kobolds despite playing human currently
PF1 or PF2? Cause PF2 monks are really cool
3 different people have retold this story lol but still hilarious
"DONT INTERRUPT MY SCENE!!"
I feel like having an aloof hero type NPC can be fun like a Gaston, but if the party hates him because you forced him too hard... that is on the Craig haha.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace the guide on how to *not* do a dmpc
craig character was a refference to guy sensei from naruto , a martial artist who had " spring time of youth " as his cach phrase
Yeah, it sounded so familiar. It was bothering me reading this story. Guy Sensei, of course!
"You're not that Guy, pal" would have been great
I'm shaking and crying right now Guy Sensei would never!
Everytime I see a "new" Craig Saga video, Im always reminded of the 'A NEET Called Luke' story.
I don’t understand how anyone can continue playing with someone who forces you to roll self control on kids. That’s just a clear indication that something’s wrong with that person. Woulda got up and left. Probably gave home a piece of my mind too, I understand not everyone has the ability to just initiate confrontation like that, but you need to nip shit like this in the bud.
That may have been one of the most horrifying things I’ve heard. Most the story was your standard player/DM who wants to be the center of the universe and is creepy, but after that I’m shocked the other players would want to be in a room with them.
Like I don't even mind dark themes, even in that nature I actually enjoy when games get extremely uncomfortable or enraging, but I do think it's messed up to force someone else into that kind of situation in a D&D campaign. It's definitely something you need to warn your players of to see whether or not they're fine with it. Especially if you're gonna be explicit about it. Most people can't even handle child murder let alone SA.
@@lootgoblinmarketplaceyep, that would have been grounds for terminating my character from the campaign immediately upon his suggestion to roll.
After a one-shot where I built what I thought was the most evil villain possible to forge an immediate party unity, I have developed a policy about violence against children. That policy is basically this: If a kid is ever harmed or killed, it always happens "off-screen."
The reason for this is that the villain I chose to build was a fallen paladin posing as if he never fell, via the use of an Amulet of Undetectable Alignment. He would routinely collect local orphans under the guise of raising them in the faith and seeing which of them would hear the "Paladin's Call." In reality, he was taking them to a temple where they would be beaten into submission by the previous batch of abductees, now acolytes of the villain's deity.
Well, when the party approached him, he tapped the nearest and tallest 2 acolytes on the head, releasing a pair of modified Hold Person spells on them, then picked them up by an ankle each, and started wielding them as weapons. The catch is that the party was meant to capture this PoS alive to be punished publicly by the church he had been defrauding. I had people wanting to hit me out of character, and by the end of the session, was disgusted with myself, and I ultimately shredded the character, never to even mention him again.
@@TeacherinTraining39
Like, people wanting to assault you in real life because of it?
An hour of hearing that awesome voice and listening to dnd stories is a great addition to my day!
I’m glad you liked it. When you got a classic like this you gotta do the full length. I had doing the multiple part videos haha
The Craig Saga is a classic. It's one of those sagas where you have someone do a lot of highly questionable decisions with no understanding as to why those decisions were questionable. I can't really fault the enthusiasm. But the results really speak for themselves.
It definitely is a classic. I definitely feel like a lot of players can be a Craig (at least in the sense that they try to be the main character as a first time player and a tyrant as a first time DM) when they start out, but the fact he never grew is what makes this a true horror story.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace I 100% agree with that Loot, Craig missed a lot of opportunities to learn as these events were taking place.
"I'm gonna introduce you to a brand new game system, but you're not allowed to read any of the rulebooks or have stats over a specific level."
_What could possibly go wrong with this game, I wonder._
Really liked that underground steampunk setting tbh
Might steal some aspects
I especially liked Basal as a cave guide and the cave guides faction.
I think even in the worst horror stories, we can still find some good ideas from them. It’s one of my favorite parts about covering them!
@@lootgoblinmarketplaceI like that way of thinking. Even in failure we can still find good stuff. Also yeah I kinda wanna steal that setting too lol. Almost like a fantasy version of the Metro 2033 series.
Certified hood classic 🔥🔥🔥🔥
He really is one of the OGs
Ah, what a classic.
I still can't comprehend Craig as a person and i am still doubtful if it's a truly real story... But, either way, it's a fascinating case indeed.
Yeah, you always have to wonder what is fake or embellished a bit to make the problem player in a story seem even worse, but I definitely believe this saga is more fact than fusion. At least the Part 3 feels very real about a DM crying that his DMPC is getting the emotional payoff he demanded and then losing interest in the campaign after derailing it yourself. It seems like a player that probably doesn’t self reflect very often.
Listening to the final story, I started imagining if Elijah was wielded by another player, the Franklin scene would be a moment for a character arc. The idea being that what Craig wrote is the lore he tells people to make himself seem big. In reality, “Dollface” either does not exist or is a nurse who has no interest in him. All his life, he has been posing as his dream life, blinding sometimes even himself of the truth.
What I imagined is in this alternate scenario, being told off by Franklin, Elijah just freezes up, broken and humbled, he goes to the back, uttering no words for the rest of the drive. From there, this would either lead to his destruction, or his growth to better himself and maybe eventually join the police force.
K yeah this was an awful awful experience... But my only shred of empathy for Craig: don't interrupt your GM. They've been thinking about this all the time between game. It's exciting for the GM and when you interrupt you really ruin their fun.
Like Craig is a problem, but lots of players do this to all kinds of DMS, not just problem ones
I’ve been pretty lucky where no one has interrupted me during big moments, but I could see that being annoying.
@@lootgoblinmarketplace it very much is. I enjoy my players but they interrupt constantly in one of my groups.
there is no reason to respect his characters when hes not respecting yours, but if the DM isnt being a huge dick then yea your point stands
Sometimes, even the worst DM's can be understandably upset over something
I once got yelled at for rolling my eyes as a dm went all gary stu with his dmpc. I learned to have a new policy. I'll no longer interrupt a bad dm, or a ego centric one even with a eyeroll or a sigh. I'll just get up and leave the table/call/ chat.
I dunno. Considering D&D games have escalated to people constantly trying to rape underage NPC's, threatening to arrest DM's, breaking arms, pulling knives, and sexual assault, Craig is becoming...quaint.
so the first game he DM'ed i dont think is that bad of a concept on paper. basically tried to make the anime powers more akin to Final Fantasy, where you get smaller boosts of power leading up the huge reveal of being "a warrior of light" kind of deal. but it seems he didnt ever get to "the big reveal" part, and just kept building slowly. basically an EDM song that never reached the drop.
edit:
after that ending, given the inability to separate player from character, i would legit be worried hed come back with a real gun later in the future and try to like "roleplay" his deranged theater cop irl
Yeah the first two stories I really did see how it could be a bad communication thing that he was too immature to handle. It’s weird to give someone their “ideal GF NPC” then 180 their character. Then with the next story you seen him try something out but it could be awkward due to inexperience. By the end of it I too lost any sympathy as it appears he never improved.
The ONLY time ive ever had a "forced to roll to avoid "forced" sex" was in a predesigned campaign, not homebrew. In an optional area and the entire party was told that this was in the module and asked if we wanted to keep it or just trade it for something else. We all agreed we were grown up enough to deal with it and were assured none of it would be role played as it would be a fade to black now make consecutive saves scenario. When we then entered that area we were again reminded of that room and the dm checked in to make sure it was fine. Handled well. None of us died to the "Compulsion" that essentially produced immense lust over any who enter and fail a save, designed to pretty much force exhaustion or death.
The best part is that the last incident could've been hilarious, if Craig was at all self-aware.
Craig strikes me as someone who never grasped that pen and paper RPGs are a game *and* collaborative storytelling. It's an ensemble cast, and the story takes a backseat to the hands of fate; nobody likes a fiat to fail, sure, but killing off a BBEG in a "cut scene" is even less satisfying in tabletop than it is in video games.
We invited a new guy named Craig to our Superhero rpg. We had been gaming for 6 years, and each player had invested a lot of lore for the player characters. We were welcoming even though Craig's character was the most annoying thing ever. We learned he had the power of a god, and ended up undoing everything we had spent years in real life building. The last game most of us got up and walked out of the game mid-sesson.
I will admit. Craig was just so...I waited until the first interaction OP explained before getting red flags immediately. I would have been mortified at the initial reaction when Rei was initially explained. Heck, I WAS mortified. I would have been talking to both Craig and OP about being uncomfortable immediately at the aggressive nature there. The whole story sent chills up my spine and I think Craig was at least a little bit romantically interested in the OP which was to the blatant favoritism. I feel like a shower now. Otherwise, Beautiful reading @lootgoblinmarketplace You kept a calm that I wouldn't have.
Yeah some of these are horrifying. I feel grateful for my campaigns whenever I read these.
We had a guy make a snobby rich waifu character that ended up getting killed because he attacked a named NPC that was definitely a powerful magic user, and he attacked unprovoked.
We were hired as bodyguards for a caravan from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep, and there was this one cart that was extra fancy (think enclosed stage coach you could sleep in). Obviously a VIP, and had his own bodyguard. We had identified the wagon as suspicious as it was a total dead spot using detect magic, which we determined meant he must be shielding it from magic somehow, maybe an anti-magic field.
Most of us decided to leave well enough alone, as he was not posing any kind of threat to the caravan - which again, we were hired to protect and escort.
However, this guy in our party, his waifu character caught a glimpse of the occupant when the wagons circled up for chow, and the bodyguard brought the man his meal. We didn't know this, because the player didn't communicate it, but they recognized him as her family's dark secret was they were cult members, and the waifu had seen this man at the cult gatherings. She was privy to information nobody else in the party had, and he was in fact a badguy. So without explaining herself, the waifu demands the rest of the party work with her to attack this guy, and question him.
From our perspective, we'd only been a party in-game-world for less than a week. We were all still basically strangers, and had no reason or inclination to blindly trust some stuck up bitch who acted like we were all beneath her. So we told her to go pound sand, that if she wanted to fight him, we won't stop her, but we won't help her, either. She takes great offense to that, and attempts to leverage her sorcery charisma against us in a persuasion check, but the DM said, "Dude, no, they are players, not NPCs. You can't just magically persuade them to play the way you want to play." That was the right call, because above table, we were like, "We're only level 2, and not to get too meta, but this dude is a named NPC with magic powerful enough to block detect magic. He'll likely kill us all."
So in character, we're all basically saying, "I wouldn't go starting fights that don't need to be fought. We ain't paid to attack our own caravan. If we do, word will get out, and nobody will ever hire us again. So forget it." Over and over, we warned the waifu to not mess with the guy.
Well, they attack the bodyguard. The bodyguard screams in pain as a firebolt hits him in the face. This alerts the hidden bodyguard, a wight, and now it's 2v1. She attacks the wight, too. This commotion has now woken up the high level sorcerer trying to sleep in his wagon. He pops open the door, a spell readied in his hand (DM announces it's a held action that will be released if he gets attacked again), and demands to know who dares attack his bodyguards. The waifu refuses to pick up what the DM is putting down, and instead of resolving the situation with words, she starts to cast a firebolt, and the DM says, "Roll DEX save [I forgot the save number, but it's high. Really high]."
She rolls the save, and fails. Keep in mind she's a level 2 sorcerer (1d6 hit die), and I think had maybe 12 HP at most.
Upon failing, she's hit with 10d6+40 force damage. She is instantaneously turned to a pile of ash. Our barbarian Minotaur takes a bite out of an apple, and says, "Told 'er not to do that," and my fighter dragonborn just goes, "Hmph," nodding in agreement, arms crossed. Our reborn Twilight Cleric shakes his head and says, "Pity. Not even I can heal that mess." DM says, "Roll new character."
At this point, the guy controlling the waifu loses his damned mind, insisting she's not dead.
We play on Roll20, and he drags her token back onto the map. The DM deletes the token, and is like, "Bro, no, she's dead dead. Dust. Donezo. Roll a new character." The guy now has a total meltdown, and starts dragging dozens of his token back onto the map, hysterically claiming she's not dead, insisting, absolutely enraged, like on the verge of tears, and fighting the DM's attempt to delete the tokens. The Dm keeps telling him to re-roll charcter, and then he's like, "FINE! I'll re-roll her identical twin sister! You guys don't steal my loot!" And the DM is like, "No, not happening, roll a different character. Everything was disintegrated; there's no loot to be had." We had no magic items or anything like that. She was just wearing starter gear. Even gold gets disintegrated as per spell description that only magic items survive. Gold ain't magic.
He threw the biggest tantrum I've ever witnessed an adult man throw. Screaming, cussing, crying, you'd think the DM had just disintegrated his mother or something. Holy shit. He then directed the blame on the rest of the party for not helping in the fight, and we were like, "Bro, we told you it was a bad idea, and that we wouldn't help. You did this to yourself." He's in total meltdown at this point, tells us all to fuck off, and leaves the Discord group.
Bizarre. Like dude, you were only level 2; re-rolling a character at level 2 is no big deal.
It the
The slow drip weak mortals for Exalted is wild! Solar Exalts are not just demigods, but top tier ANIME DEMIGODS! All caps intended there. They do shit like dodge a cloud of razors that scour a mile wide swath through a city when they were in the center of the AoE or block attacks that could cut a boulder in half with their bare hands. It is a super fun game for a small group so you can let characters really show off in crazy ways.
Wow, this guy has to be the lolcow of Dms. I can really relate to the fact that Craig was that type of friend that drains energy instead of adding. I encounter that kind of people and they seem to not realize how difficult is to deal with them sometimes
8:42
"... ST, which appears appears to be the Dungeon Master term they use for this game"
As someone who is familiar with the Exalted system, yeah that's it. ST is short for "StoryTeller" and is your host for the system.
To add some meta knowledge and context to that section of the story:
>The "no skill over 3" is kind-of an actual rule. The game considers 2 to be "generic/average", 3 is above average, and 5 is legendary. There's a bonus trait you can take where you are so generic-looking that noone can remember what you look like, but it requires you to have Appearance 2, no higher no lower. HOWEVER, This is usually only applied to SKILLS, not attributes, and even then you get like 15 Bonus points that can be spent during Character Creation which CAN raise your skills up to 5.
>"Unheroic heroic mortals who have yet to Exalt." Uh, what? So, to approximate this to D&D as best as I can: A Mortal starts at Lv1 and caps at Lv5, and can't use any magic at all, where as Exalted start at Lv4 and can go all the way up to Lv20 or higher. All Exalted start as Heroic Mortals who are chosen by the gods (sorta), with Heroic being a definition of scale not alignment. All Adventurers in D&D are "Heroic Mortals." An Unheroic Mortal would be the barkeep or town guard. Exaltations explicitly do not choose the meek to become champions.
>"Mask of Winters" is a fairly big stock-badguy in the setting... I know little about D&D's world, but the closest analogy I can think of would be name-dropping "Strahd"
>I don't think the Familiar background allows you to have a shapeshifting pet. Familiar 3 gets you either a panther OR a human-smart cat that can "talk" to you (Analogy, Teekl from Young Justice), Familiar 5 gets you both in the same pet, but no magic powers. But with Craig as ST, I'm not surprised it was allowed. Edit: With what the familiar turned out to be, I'd say she would be properly represented by the Allies background instead... at rating 8 or higher.
>Knowing Terrestrial Sorcery at character creation while being mortal... legally possible. It means your character has underwent at least two eye-opening experiences about the reality of the world (One to awaken their Essence, which all Exalted get for free, and one to undergo the trials of Sorcery, which even Exalted must do), and probably had to min-max his stats to pull it off (Mortals start with Essence 1, Exalted with Essence 2, and Essence 3 is required to learn Sorcery). It is exceptionally rate in-universe, but it IS possible.
>Elaboration on Charms: Some charms can be outrageous, others are basic. A Paladin's Smite would count as a Charm, as would a Bard's Inspire. Charms form the basis of the game's system, being basically every ability besides basic move and attack.
>Sorcery as charms... oh boy. Sorcery is MUCH different in Exalted than D&D. First, you initiate casting on one turn, and then launch the spell at the beginning of the next turn. If the spell is a higher tier of magic (there are three tiers total), you have to spend an additional turn casting per tier. This consumes one Willpower per tier, which players start with about 7 and caps at 10, and you recover approximately 1d3 to 1d5 Willpower per long-rest. The payoff for this insanely costly system is first-tier sorcery lets you turn someone's bones into lava (or cast Fireball), while third tier sorcery lets you fire an anime pillar-of-light that erases everything in a 100-yard radius of impact.
>Tattoo Solar... I can't completely discount the concept of tattoo-powers as being possible, but Solar is no and prototype is most likely no. There is an example of Tattooed Exalted, however; Lunar Exalted, which are werewolves/shapeshifters.
>Lost Demon Queen Raga... I'm just going to say that Demons in Exalted do *not* work that way. Short version is when the Gods (who created the Exalted) overthrew their creators, said creators were thrown into a pocket dimension as a prison. Those former creators (and their lesser servants) are Exalted's demons. Four tiers, with multiple lines of text explicitly saying that the Fourth Tier can NEVER escape (at least not without breaking the whole prison open) and are the physical terrain of the pocket dimension. A Third Tier demon is an equivalent power-level to Tiamat or Bahumut (minimum) and don't even get proper statblocks, Second tier is probably as strong as an elder dragon, First tier are your basic mooks.
>Sidreal Exalted... Solars are Paladins, Lunars are Druids, Sidereals get all sorts of fate-related nonsense. People exalt as Sidereals because fate says so... that's pretty much it. Being hugged to death though should have turned her into an Abyssal, though.
The way he described the WoD campaign going. That's not how WoD is supposed to work... Makes me wonder who was actually the bad guy.
100% someone who hasn’t gotten his ass kicked IRL, shit can humble your way of talking to people
Thanks for the channel, its fun; for what was just read, there is absolutly no way to control that in real life about the books and reading
Seems like Craig didn't even know what even he himself really wanted to do as a DM
Absolutely disgusting. I would NEVER do that to one of my players! They took an npc they knew one of their players adored and lobotomized her off-screen. Ruining the countless hours of player investment into the romance between their character and the npc.
I don't condone the immature way Craig reacted and behaved. But he had every right to feel angry and betrayed.
I do agree that in the first story especially you see that Craig’s frustration isn’t unfounded. I think it’s good in these stories where you can see how while a player might not handle situation maturely it isn’t always a one sided situation. I think that while Craig wasn’t always solely in the wrong in these stories, I feel like all players can have their bad moments but you aren’t a problem player until you repeat bad behavior and don’t learn to be accountable and grow!
@lootgoblinmarketplace It was a long while ago, but I actually found the original reddit post and read the comments. Apparently, the change in personality was due to the emergence of something that was dormant within her. So in other words, it was always going to happen.
Totally agree. Craig had clear issues, but just yanking someone's love interest away and returning them completely changed is kind of spitting into the face of what had been built thus far.
@@Mant111It would’ve been fine if Craig wasn’t using the romance as personal wish fulfillment. As OP said, the romance could have continued, or they could break up and work to come to terms with that, and it could have been a compelling story. OP just failed to understand the extent to which Craig was projecting himself and his fantasies onto the characters
@@ViVi1159-d1 I mean, that's kinda the point. Changing the character completely like that, out of nowhere and seemingly for no reason would've pissed off anyone. It felt like a move that came from spite.
Judging by the contrast of how OP ran things to how Craig ran things, I believe the reason he said he hated OP the most was because he felt unreciprocated; in that, in most of Craig's games OP was the favorite and so Craig probably felt he should have been favored in kind. But OP, as far as we know, never played favorites.
I came to say.
His real beef is something he didn't say outright: to him, the OP was a traitor.
The meltdown story revealing Craig as a devotee (people who are sexually attracted to disability, often in a one-dimensional way) is incredibly revealing, as a disabled person.
I am unsurprised that the disability community has a parallel term to "chaser" among trans folks, but it's odd that this is probably the first time I've heard the actual term.
@@ConvincingPeople it’s not something most disabled people like to talk about because it’s a depressing topic in the community, as I’m sure chasers are in the trans community.
OF course, it has a term for it. I've seen this before, and never really got it. Sure, someone hurt or disabled need your help, and this triggers your instinct to protect and provide, but to have a, quote: "Sickly wheel-chair-bound pretty girl that need your help for everything" sort of person as your IDEAL PARTNER is absurd.
My ideal partner is someone whos physically and mentally fully sound. Who has compassion and empathy towards me, and preferably, others. Because if they have those things, then they are someone who would not betray you over their own gain or ideology or such a thing (divorce for financial gain, betrayal because your man-hating ideology says so, etc.) and they would be someone you can rely on to carry their own weight to an expected, basic degree, so they can have your back and you theirs.
When I was younger I used to think this was just the default, the norm, but it seems with 'devotees' 'feeders' 'chasers' etc. etc. a lot of horrible exceptions exist.
@@tereninsecundus6084 I mean, as a disabled person, I’d argue that I’m still “fully physically sound”. My limits are just different than most people (reminder that there are paralympians who can outpace 99% of abled people). I want a partner to walk in life and support my load as I’d be there to support their’s.
The issue with devotees is that they don’t see disabled people as people who have autonomy and can handle a load physically. They take both loads, treat disabled ppl as near-objects, and expect to be praised for their efforts.
@@1bendykat Indeed. As example, 'That Guy' in question here literally treated the 'ultimate waifu' of their like a broken doll. FFS, at that point you can just get a flesh-light and be done with it.
My specific 'ultimate traits' picks as elaborated on above don't care for any one specific disability - I have one myself (I won't specify) but I function more than good enough to handle myself, I live alone and need minimal oversight or help with anything. If I met someone meeting my 'terms' so to say I couldn't care any less if they had some disability as well, we would just back each other up and face life together.
The 'broken doll' is completely unable to do that on any equal level. What they can do is in fact very limited. And it sounds indeed like 'That guy' would not be in favor of letting them handle even what little proverbial weight they can, taking away what little validation and sense of self-worth they might have.
Thr submissive part would be more worrying if i knew to what point did he take it. For me the whole roll to stop your charecter from graping a child is the moment he would be kicked from the freind grouo like. The heck is wrong with you at that point
I love those long form videos
I plan on dropping a longer one every few videos. This was a lot of fun!
Ok, with the second story... I don't want to victim-blame here, but OP let Craig get away with WAY too much. The very first "roll to avoid giving into urge" should have been where the line was drawn.
I do think that this is a good call out. It’s important to realize that some behaviors need to be contested immediately and if they continue to try and do it then it’s time for one of you to part ways with the game. Sometimes being agreeable or passive to a fault can allow a problem player to get out of hand.
The only points I can give to craig are points toward how cool story 3’s campaign would’ve been if played well,
Craig is the most horrible person. Hes one of those guys you question how you even met it feels. BUT even I felt a tad bit angry about the romance at the start. Like maybe there was ya know. Plot. But why change the love interest into such a 180? That whole story boggled my mind. Craig could have handled it differently but that time it felt like the dm instigated it with," Yeah i changed their love interest fully and uttlery, but like whats the problem?"
Yeah the first story I kind of got why he was sad but it only got worse from there.
Well, the way I read it, OP was very uncomfortable with the reasons and ways Craig fell in love with her(her being submissive, the "let me carry the unconscious girl" shout), and probably part of the "reasons" to her character changes was to not endorse such behavior of a friend.
Soo, I agree with the "It's understandable that Craig was quite upset" part, but I would call you to reconsider the "why would OP do such a thing, it makes no sense", so that if some1 irl tells you about being orded around or other controlling/manipulative behavior by their love intrest, you could give more support/advice to such person than "what's the problem, seems fine to me"
@73490kanel - I think you hit the nail on the head. I was trying to get my head around the change and that makes a lot of sense.
Alright the romance thing in the first campaign, I'm gonna assume that the character changes for Rei had something to do with either Rei having gone through some kind of in game character arc that changed her around or the ST losing inspiration for her perhaps so they wanted to change her around? I definitely do think that fucking with like important character relationships for your players without previous consent is a big no but....the immediate interest the dude had in Rei plus with how Craig is described as someone who enjoys anime in a rather.....concerning.....way, would've skeeved me the fuck OUT, I would've fucking went on from then like heeeey guys I can't do romance so don't expect any, power to the ST for committing to it but with how Craig's character was built and the knowledge he's one of those anime fans, I would've been like 'yeah no I'm not writing an anime subplot sorry.'
Ah, the Saga of Craig. Not the first tabletop horror story I've heard, but one of the most amusing to me.
If you haven't already i encourage you to check out the Ross Saga. Also please be sure to include replies from the OP from that story. It is good!
That’s a monster of a story that I’ll have to tackle soon!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace NIIIIIICE! Can't wait to see when you do! Until then, keep being awesome!
This is gonna be a good last hour of work
Glad I could make it go by quicker!
8:38 ST = Story Teller
That's the typical term for the Game Master / Dungeon Master in White Wolf products
Craig should be in jail for the Underage Girl character. Because it implies he's a Freak who wanted to make Z'eal himself
That Elijah character is the worst creation ever
Craig reminds of myself when I was younger. I...had a lot of issues growing up that didn't get resolved and regrettably, they got taken out on multiple people that really did not deserve it. Screaming? Did it. Curse people out? Absolutely. Stand out example is when I was trying to play a character trying to be good and accidentally started the apocalypse, an apocalypse that took form of an Organization 13 member, which I thought was lame. It was...bad.
You can't really do anything for people like this, you just need to distance yourself from them and maybe check in every few years to see if they've changed. Maybe. You know, if you really want too.
Tuned out for a bit bc I'm listening at work and I tuned back in during Franklin getting shot in the knee wth
Oh goodness! The gobbo is adorable
I think ST might be Story Teller?
I think your right about the abbreviation being story teller. Functionally I tend to think of them all in terms of Dungeon Master or Game Master but that’s my D&D upbringing showing
Yeah, I believe all White Wolf games call their GMs Story Tellers.
I may be wrong, Exalted 2nd edition, Kara sounded like an alchemical exalted, which are sort of like the beta test for exalts, I can get behind the idea of starting off as mortals in an exalted game and coming into the power in game, but not drip feeding it the way he did, its supposed to be a sudden glorious change when all hope seems lost, a time when your character's options are "run away and hide" or "get up of the floor, bloody and bruised, brace yourself, and try to throw the velociraptor running 32mph at you" (at least for solar exalted, sidereals are basically kidnapped taken to heaven and instructed in what their role will be, as other sidereals have divined that your going to exalt at some point, Lunars are similar to Solars, Abyssals are basically given the option of "die and fall into the abyss, or exalt as one of the deathlords favoured knights, be bound to them and do their bidding, and Infernals in a twisted play on the solar ones are the people who had the option to be heroic, but chose to run and hide instead (abyssals and infernals being different flavours of corrupted solars)
will say though that not reading the setting of the game could be done well, as a large number of tribes in the world setting have little to no outside communication with the outside world and may not speak the same language or know much about the scope of it beyond a range of 100miles of their hamlet. but to do that there would definitely have to be a session 0 where the Story Teller (ST) gives an outline of the setting, some interesting things (like the underworld, hell, faeries, gods, primordials, spirits, mutations, dino people, the 5 elemental poles and directions etc)
Monk is crippled in PF?
I played a monk in PF once.. he was completely broken and it was kinda boring how absolutely overpowered I'd accidentally made him.
Pretty sure I got like 12 attacks per turn, over half of which were against flat footed with all of the bonus damages... Pretty much "1 shot" everything.
Trip monk is no joke.
i feel like the Black Blade Magus thing was a reference to Asta and his Demonic Anti Magic Black Sword that he uses in Black Clover
I really can't say I'm surprised Craig was the type of guy to drop Pathfinder for 4e
He definitely sounds like a craig
Me: oh, that's a bit weird, but that's unfortunate...
Me: wait... we're 7 minutes in... And it's an hour long... oh BOY. 😂😂😂
I love Jacob. He seems a great manager of things and people.
10:20 What's wrong with the hag? Its actually a lot more creative than "expert tracker with bad social skills whose tribe got wiped out. Like wtf people
As much as I understand the need to play and gain those stories, all those people over and over again kept engaging with said Greig, enabling his god-child-syndrome, and every turn genuinely act surprised like it never happened before
Craig had to have become a meme otherwise how could they continue to play with him lol
You have quite a voice for this. I liked the whole video.
Thank you! I’ve been enjoying recording these readings!
If anything the Aloof character probably would've been good as a twist villain if done right. Get the party to like em and at the one point betray them. After all, nobody betrays trust like Gaston.
I can't believe these players tolerated this guy for an entire campaign let alone several. My character might be disposable but my time certainly isn't and if someone like this child chooses to waste it I'd rather cut my losses and just leave.
minor nitpick about the exalted story: during character creation 3 is indeed the max allowed, 5 is the max you can reach with character growth. it's like this for all story teller (ST) systems, which is whitewolf's in house system
You Can Check Out More Stories Here!
th-cam.com/play/PLs2SsEFbEIfauDCJ2BODA-hGVuSjTj02K.html
Craig is this typical hentai main character, who is stalking girls, coping that he has a slightest chance. I almost turned the video of because if disgust and cringe I had been feeling while listening. He is so cartoonish in all of that almost like he is not real, and was just created to be made fun off, like some show characters, if u know what I mean. Thx for reading, btw. Made me feel this DnD vibe, actually. Not the best one in terms of emotions left from the story, but still really interesting. and your voice really does make it to enjoyable experience. 😁
I was extremely weirded out about the amputee girl
Yanking away someone's NPC girlfriend only to have her "returned" completely changed would piss off anyone who spent maybe weeks and weeks on end building an RP relationship with said character. I feel like the problems that Craig created in the second story where a followup to the issues the DM caused in the first.
If you show players that the DM can treat them however he wants without any concern for their feelings, efforts and time investment, you risk that same rule getting adopted and repeated once those players become DM's themselves.
I would never be able to do all this
Craig sounds like a toddler.
We hac players who would take scenes from other charaters that were more suited to it. Charisma scenes for example.
Ill never forget the time my character told a council that a kid shouldnt be lunished for the crimes of the grandfather, and another player butted in parroting exactly what i said.
The DM of course, listened to him.
I'm just super confused that he had to go 'change into outdoor clothes'... like put on a jacket? Or did he bring a second set of clothes to change into? Very strange
I don’t think I have gotten to that part yet but where I live one could certainly put on a pair of long-johns or something like that before going out in the cold.
No, honestly, I think there was no better way it could have ended. Craig basically kicked himself out due to being unable to separate himself from the fantasy. I hope Craig gets help. With Craig seeing himself out, OP and the rest of the group didn't have to expend any negative energy.
As an Elijah I will say that that Elijah is nothing like the real ones
Hey
'It would look stupid' is such a weird justification for a GM screwing over their player in a game that only exists in descriptions
He just wanted a sub that's all lol (authentic cuisine in his eyes). Author reading into it too much. He was infuriated that his waifu was marvelized.
Commenting for my early viewer badge, will return to watch the rest after work 😂
Badge approved!
No surprise this jerk friend was able to railroad everything and got his way. I'll bet he would play with him again if he came back and fed them some cookie cutter BS about growing as a person and slowly slip back into his old ways once ge got back in. And I hope he does. OP sounds like a pushover. OPs mushy "high road" takeaway that sounds like something from an after school special about dealing with bullies is what enabled the dude. This wasn't just 1 game. I would have started avoiding gaming with this dude after the first game.
Anima is great fun, but soooo many tables
I definitely need to get into it!
What about play a lombax artificer
Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well
@@space.gangsta1178 thanks
I've had a meltdown and excommunicated with a player like this only because I said I watched a few Pewdiepie videos.
Synthesist is OP and broken for those that played Pathfinder 1e. Also Craig sounds like Cartman from south park power hungry and obnoxious
Why even DM for a group if your goal isn't for the players to have fun? Like the goal should be for everyone to enjoy themselves and in a game like D&D you're just not going to get that "perfect" game without hyper controlling everything.
I love you little character
If Chris-chan played DND...
Would you ever do a Bloodborne esc campaign?
To be honest, this guy kind of reminds me of Wendell Sanders from key and Peele
God some of these campaigns and arcs and charactets seem SO fucking cool seeing em get run by a shit DM or ruined by one player's so disheartening
Yeah I agree that I see a lot of wasted potential in these stories plot wise. The good news is you can always take what you’d like and try to spin it for your game. Keep all the fun content and none of the horror!
@@lootgoblinmarketplace This is fair actually, I don't DM but if I ever get back into tabletops I'm probably just binging stories here and go at a friend like "hey look at this thats cool as fuck run something similar if you want"
if there was more information about the setting, but Kara and the other women sound like they are characters from Kuroinu: Kedakaki Seijo wa Hakudaku ni Somaru and a bunch of other hentai anime.
ST means "Story Teller"
I can, i get heated and shut down
watching these videos really taught me that I have zero tolerance to cringe. 10/10 would watch again
Honestly it sounds like Craig would be a lot happier spending his free time writing shitty novels instead of running TTRPG campaigns. Some of his ideas are cringe and some are okay but his biggest problem seems to be that he considers the players to just be obstacles to his storytelling. So, cut out the players, just write the stories instead.
Creg is just Chuunibyou than never grow up.
Seems like the dm is interested in a profane/ horror setting, about loss and corruption. Also the players are very uppity about their morality, so to a dm trying to tell his story, is this a glass house situation.
Also communicate and setting expectations seems to be lacking on all ends, especially from the story teller.. but live and let learn..!
Craig clearly watches way too much low quality anime.
Im gusing music guy
Am I the only one who thinks that the pocket dimension sounds like a shameless rip-off of innistrad, from MTG😊
Craig is a whole ass Persona villain. 😂
This really is a horror story compilation. DM v PCs a la sexual anime fantasies
First story with the waifu: Why was the waifus personality changed? The writer just skipped over it. I know i would be pissed if my characters love interest drastically changes for no reason and then for the writer to say the change was for the better? No dude. Craig was deep into the roleplay, not unnatural for the D&D community and he made side stories that were good and well received. DM in the wrong here.
Kinda have to agree here. If I was deep into a campaign and with an established RP relationship with an npc, having said character have a 180° change in personality for unexplained reasons would feel quite arbitrary and wasteful of my own roleplaying. Sweeping it under the rug as "and so they grew apart, it happens" just doesn't cut it.
Craig had good reasons here to be pissed, I would say.
@@Mant111I think the reasons are implied by the story. Her strict upbringing forced her to be a certain way then she spent an extended period of time somewhere else and when she returned the personality that was forced upon her had vanished. I have seen things like that happen in real life and it did not take a long time.
Roleplaying with other people means you have to adapt to things outside of your characters control. If you are not willing to do that then write stories instead.
The DM did not explain the details here but the clues are there.
@@Shannon4710 Even if that was the case, you have to make that understandable to the person who's roleplaying at your table. You can't just sweep it under the rug with a kekw.
@@Mant111 Considering how the people in this story acted otherwise I don't see anything suggesting that the DM didn't make that reasonably understandable to the people involved.
dumgun amd dramgorn
Do love playing some dumgun and dramgorn
Well.