my sister's demanding to name my baby? r/AmITheA**Hole
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oh woah peaches this one seems pretty divisive! if you think B’s mum IS the asshole, reply to this comment with a 💩, if you think B’s mum ISN’T the asshole, reply to this comment with a 👀 x
I don't think either are an asshole but I think both could have handled the situation better. I personally blame the mum more since like you said she is the parent, the more experienced person who doesn't have that desperate want for her father. But really the father is the asshe
As a mum that has been in similar situations (eldest son still sees my ex, other 2 choose not to) B’s mum chose to respect B’s decision and made other plans to deal with the betrayal she felt… in my opinion she’s no more the a*hole than I am when my eldest son cuts me out of his life for 6 months just to return when he wants something from me (often largish sums of money)- when I point out to him I don’t have that kind of money (and he’s even asked me to take out loans which he will pay back) and that in the past he hasn’t repaid money I’d lent when I had it . He will also tell me about important events in his life telling me he’s asked x, y, or z to go with him then throw a strop when they can’t go and neither can I at the drop of a hat. He told me about his baptism at the age about 32 a week before, however I had a hospital appointment in another town and couldn’t make it, and told him which made me the a*hole because I never prioritise him. I wish I’d not jumped every time he’d changed his mind when he was in his late teens and early 20s as now he’s 37 and still throws a strop if he’s knocking on my front door on an unplanned visit and I’ve already gone out for the day.
@@lynnenicholson6968 yeah, there's a big difference between an 18 year old and a 37 year old who is clearly taking the proverbial. You're definitely not the arsehole!
The dad is a super asshole, but unfortunately I feel like this is a lesson the daughter needed to learn. It’s harsh though. There’s no doubt about that. But some kids, and adults for that matter, have to learn lessons the hard way. I’m speaking as a former child who had to learn several lessons the hard way. They hurt in the moment, but I’m a much better person for having learned them. I couldn’t have learned them the easy way though. At least not at those points in my life. As my Momma say’s some kid’s have to learn that fat means greasy. I’m sure B learned something that day. I just hope it’s the correct lesson. Now if B’s takeaway is that her Momma ain’t there for her then she’ll end up having to learn this lesson at some point in the future. I hope for her sake this is lesson she only has to learn once.👀
I personally think that the mum did something wrong and should have gone (though I maybe not would go so far as call her an asshole, the dad is the asshole). I totally get where she is coming from but like Shaaba said, the parent should know a little better and be the bigger person. If it had been a friend of hers who treadted her like that I would have said that she did the right thing, but it was her daughter. And the relationship between parents and children is different (it does not matter if they are of age), and to her daughter she should have behaved differently. In my opinion she should have gone and thus showed her daughter "I'm here for you. I'm always here for you and I will always support you, even if you did some things that made me feel bad, because I know why you did them and because I know that it's not easy for you. You can rely on me, no matter what. Because you are my daughter". Especially when it's her graduation, and especially when her dad clearly is not a person she can rely on though he should be, because it's her dad. It's okay that the mother felt how she felt, but she just should have told her daughter how she felt and they should have talked through it. Not going to the graduation was not the right thing to show her because it did nothing but let both sides end up very hurt and this way the mother did not behave in a way a parent should ever behave to their child. (Again, the father is much worse, but especially because of this the mother should have shown that her daughter CAN rely on her)
That person whose Mom cleaned their apartment while they were gone, needs to take their keys back, and set some firm bounderies. That is just not ok.
My mom did that to me once and couldn't understand why I was pissed, she didn't charge me however. lol
She just completely invaded my privacy and insinuated that I didn't do a good enough job of it myself. I'm in my 30's!! Im sorry, but that is no longer your concern. Also, I do just fine, thank you.
@@janessadavies1437 My mother used to do the same thing, until we had a huge argument and didn't talk for a week. It's been though setting these bounderies but so, so worth it. Our relationship is better than ever, and she feels appreciated, while I feel the man of my own house rather than a house guest.
One thing I will say is, that however annoying it was that my mother came swooping into clean, it didn't always do a very good job of it myself. That was partially because my mother, out of a misguided sense of duty, never actually allowed me to learn how to clean by always doing it, but I had to acknowledge that I also kinda of expected her to do it. In other words, I had to grow up and put in the effort and show her that I was an adult who could handle things one my own.
The house I grew up in had 2 floors. My grandparents had the apartment on the ground floor while we had the one one upstairs. The apartments were connected with a staircase and a door that lead to our kitchen.
My grandma would come upstairs to clean our apartment while my parents were at work. As soon as my mum found out that it wasn't some gnomes doing the chores, that door was locked and stayed like that for years
Reminds me of the mum of someone I shared with during uni. She'd just appear in our kitchen sometimes, cleaning, and I'd be ??? bc she'd have "organised" our stuff, with no idea who owned what, and I'd have to hunt around for my own pans etc. And then I'd be trying to make food around her, bc I had stuff to do, I couldn't be waiting for her to finish, and we never got any warning of when she was coming.
One time she told me how anxious it makes her poor baby to live in "a tip", and how we all needed higher standards. Half the mess was his! If she'd taught him how to clean up after himself instead of fussing over him, maybe we'd have had a cleaner kitchen 🙄
Reading this comment and the replies makes me feel better about my mom. I mean, she’s not better than any of these but at least she’s not unique 🤷🏽♀️
And I feel like I made the right decision not to let my parents have our spare key!
No idea what the mom in the last story was thinking. No one asked you to clean that apartment! You can’t just walk in to someone’s apartment, clean it by YOUR OWN choice, and expect to be paid.
exactly
If a cleaning company came into my home and cleaned it without me making any kind of solicitation of their service, I absolutely would not pay them, and you legally could not make me do so. I don't see why it's any different if the person doing the cleaning is your mom.
Re: graduation - I wouldn’t call Mom an asshole, but I think she made the wrong choice. The daughter did that because she wanted to reconnect with her dad. She was devastated by how he behaved, and she needed her mom to pick up the pieces. This was never about mom, the intention wasn’t to reject mom, and mom could have been the person her daughter needed, but she chose to “teach her a lesson” at a milestone moment. The daughter will always remember her graduation as a time when both parents abandoned her, when it could have been a memory of how her mom was her true parent and was always there for her even when she was stupid.
You put it perfectly to be honest. The best thing to do would've been to go (especially going with her sister in tow - I'm sure it would've meant so much to B).
Exactly. The mom has taken the daughter's behavior way too personally instead of recognizing her role as parent. I understand the daughter is 18, but she's still your child, and she still needs to know you love and support her unconditionally. Trying to "teach a lesson" through abandonment is just a recipe to ruin the relationship you have. The lesson learned is not going to be the one you're trying to teach. Yes, boundaries are important, but understand that this is a naive child who is still trying to figure shit out and needs their mom to be loving and supportive.
This!!
The Mom said her daughter considers her her "best friend." So, it may be that B sees her relationship with her mom less like parent-child relationship and more like a friendship. It sounds like the mom might see it more as a friendship too. Parents have duties to their children that friends don't have to each other, and the nature of the relationship can and will shift expectations. There are moments in which it makes sense for a child to choose a parent over a friend. For example, if B could only bring two guests to the ceremony then she reasonably could decided she'd rather share the moment with a parent than a friend. It's not impossible for a parent and their child to become friends, but that shouldn't be until after the child is an adult and emotionally matured. Before then the child is a child and needs their parents to be their parents not their friends. All of that said, the dad's "I won't come if X goes" is manipulative and a major red flag, and the mom needs to help B recognize it not take things personally.
Very well said. And what a horrible memory for the daughter to have of her graduation.
I'm a mum and while I sympathise, I'd never tell my kid I felt so 'betrayed' that I didn't want to go to their graduation. I'd be there in a heartbeat, especially after making such a fuss. Poor kid had no parents there! That was a shitty thing to do.
No one was more betrayed than the child.
The parents need to grow up and learn to be adults in front of their child.
Poor B will need a good therapist, and an escape plan to become independent, if this is how they're treated by their parents for daring to wish to be loved by both of them.
@@nonexistingvoid exactly. It's shocking how many supposed experienced "adults" behave ridiculously immaturely in situations like these. Aren't they supposed to be the ones with viable solutions to all problems? where is your "adultness" now?
Of course B wants both their parents to be there. Whatever drama is between them shouldn't stop them from being a good parent to their child!!
@@disgrace1309 every divorce where kids are involved should require parents to tolerate each other in front of their kids.
I know my ex and I have this in black and white, neither of us allowed to bad mouth the other either.
Won't stop my brother from wishing my ex and exMIL unwell, but it forces me and my ex to at least put our children first at all times.
But I'm guessing B's parents were already fighting a lot before the divorce, and got two separate lawyers to put extra fuel on that fire, as is what happens in many divorces (my ex and I got one lawyer, who was also a mediator, so we could prevent that from happening)
“Sorry I made plans with my sister” says the mom who knew full well her child’s father would ditch her again. Your support system dropping you (which is what that feels like) over something like that, where that kid was craving a relationship with a parent the other parent, as a grown adult, knows is going to let them down- your stable parent is who you run to.
That mom seemed more interested in being called her daughter’s best friend than her mom- and she treated her kid like a scorned also teenage friend. You are not your kid’s best friend, you’re their parent. They can make best friends their own age. That’s such a red flag for me.
“She thinks I’m her best friend and I don’t want that to change” congratulations u fucked up :/
@@nonexistingvoid exactly as the story was wrapping up I was like “well say goodbye to your child’s trust anytime they’re in crisis, rebecca.”
Their escape plan no longer involves their mom.
Regarding scenario 2: I'm a mom. And I'm also the child of a nasty divorce. The father's history was an obvious heartbreak trap at best. Actively isolating the daughter from her support system by making his attendance contingent on her mother's absence is an unacceptable red flag. It could be extremely dangerous. This entire thing should have been a teaching moment to help her learn to identify abusive behavior from the very beginning. Any feelings of betrayal should have been overshadowed by concern for the daughter's wellbeing, even if that is exclusively her emotional wellbeing.
What did the dad get from this whole situation? He learned that her desperation for a relationship with him opens her up to his manipulation. He learned that he has power over her and that power extends to isolating her from the parent she trusts. What will he do with that in the future? We don't know. Maybe nothing. Maybe he's just a selfish flake. But what if he slinks back asking for money at some point? What if he toys with her to mess with his ex? What if he asks her to do something that is against her values or the law in order to get his approval? We know very little about this guy- there's no telling what he would do with this kind of power.
Just because someone is legally an adult doesn't mean their brain is finished developing. It doesn't mean the parent's job is done. It means that the parent needs to offer their wisdom and experience in a way that is appropriate for an adult, which can be trickier because both parent and child are still learning how to navigate a relationship that is transitioning to something more like peers. An 18 year old is ready to have these kinds of conversations at a level that a 12 year old is not, and she will need this kind of savvy in adulthood. Processing and understanding everything I went through was the work of years and I was in my mid-late 20s before I really hit my stride with it.
This is a good point, about the emotional manipulation thing. B needs to go to therapy and get this pointed out to her...
Yup. You hit the nail on the head. The biggest issue with the mother is how personally she has taken everything instead of understanding that her daughter is a child who needs support and guidance and unconditional love.
o.o
Yuuuuus she’s a TEENAGER still. She’s legally an adult but not emotionally. I understand the hurt, it sucks, but it’s not about the mom. It’s about a sad kid desperately trying to reconnect with an abusive father.
I've also been through a shitty divorce and my kids don't have anything to do with their dad (abusive situation). Due to this we are extremely close (trauma bond much?) and I've had to put my kids before my feelings many times. The OP's situation is sad, but I agree that she should have gone to the ceremony. Then probably therapy for both, if possible. Sigh...
If you want someone "to learn" a lesson, punishment isn't an answer. If you feel hurt, you talk about it. We learn by communication, "punishment" like not showing up is pretty ass-hole behaviour. You might have the right to come or not to come, but especially as a parent, be the .... adult and use communications, not petty punishments...
Exactly the 'punishment' and consequences for those actions was essentially that her dad hurt her again (and to be clear he shouldn't have) the mum should have recognized what an awful situation the dad put the daughter in
It wasn't punishment. She had already made plans, because she wasn't allowed to go. It's really unfair to tell someone on the day that they should come and expect them to throw everything on the side for them...
@@SlothDaan She clearly says not going because wanting to teach her and feeling betrayed. Not because she made other plans. Her wanting to go on with her own plans because they don't want to change it last-minute, that is understandable. But that's not what is being said. Also this whole not forgiving, for not inviting. Sounds more like black-mail. It's their event, their choice. And yes there's consequences to those choices, you can talk about those. But (esp. as a parent), you try to be supportive and forgiving while setting boundaries. Not being petty.
@@SlothDaan well she said the opposite of that' she said she did it to "teach her a lesson" witch is wrong since she knew her daughter has serious daddy issues and was once agein felt hurt . she admitted she didn't do because she had plans but because she wanted to teach her a lesson. I've been in similar situations before where my father figure wasn't there , and i would be crushed and would no longer trust my mom if she said that she wouldn't go because i need to "learn a lesson". If the mom could not be there than she should've set something else up, instead of leaving the daughter alone to feel so hurt. Right after her father hurt her too.
Yes, this!
When it comes down to it the 18-year-old daughter was still more a kid than an adult. The mother should have swallowed down whatever feeling she was having and gone to that graduation for her child. She should have then afterwards talked with her daughter about why she felt hurt. That mother dropped the ball massively. The teachable moment would have come afterwards when she sat her child down and spoke to her.
Teenagers aren't rational. Mom should have gone to the graduation because, regardless of their child's disrespectful behavior, they need you (assuming abuse isn't occurring). Sorry, mom not going to the graduation is going to be a story held over your head for the rest of your life, so you need to work extra hard. This ISN'T about 'who wins.'
I will quote my step mom when it comes to the story about the mom: “who’s the adult and who’s the child?”
She could’ve talked to her daughter later. It’s an important conversation that can help her understand that you should prioritize those who are there to support you unconditionally. That you shouldn’t fight teeth and nails for someone who doesn’t reciprocate the feelings, no matter if it’s your father or any other relationship you’ll have in the future. Leaving your child alone in this circumstance wasn’t the most mature decision she could’ve made. You’re the mom, she’s the child. Making her abandonment issues worse won’t teach her that her actions have consequences, will teach her that the love of her parents is conditioned to her actions. More specifically her mistakes.
I understand where her feelings come from, it’s absolutely understandable that she felt betrayed and disappointed, but this is not the way and the time to act upon those feelings. The mom is not quite the a-hole but she has to acknowledge that it wasn’t a mindful decision coming from an experienced adult.
If I remember that story right (and didnt get it get mixed up with another 1) there was a later update where the daughter apologized to the mom but then doubled down on insulting her mom by saying she'd always choose her dad over her mom. Then couldn't understand why the mom thought that was a dick move. (I feel weird siding with a mom in a situation like this given my own personal history and bs mother). The daughter is utterly willing to throw anyone under the bus for a man who couldn't care less about her and seems almost to enjoy trying to damage the mother/daughter bond given the other comments the mother made to other commentors.
@@lel7841 the daughter is suffering from pretty extreme abandonment issues. i read the update and all the mom’s comments history. she has no empathy or desire to have any idea of her daughter’s perspective. she, too, has doubled down. her daughter has been shown she can’t trust her mother in the end. that may not be what an outsider would think but that’s what she is likely perceiving. that coldness displayed by the daughter? she’s likely intentionally trying to distance herself from her mother emotionally now so she won’t get hurt further. she’s a traumatized adolescent who needs help and compassion. not a petty, childish mother and internet assholes rushing to poor mom’s defense.
that mom was so twisted tbh. like her responses reeked of missing missing reasons vibes
She is not a child, she is 18. She is her child but not a kid. My opinion would be different if she was an actual kid, but she is a grown ass 18 year old woman.
@@LiliGrosserova Um scientifically she's at least 7 years away from being "a grown ass woman". The mother IS an actual full adult, who has supposedly been dealing with a daughter for little short of 20 years by that point. You can't be acting like a 12 year old to your own daughter like that.
It's such a great feeling to ear someone else saying that "biology means crap". I've cut my mother out of my life for good reasons and often times people tell me to "be the better person" or "forgive her or else I will regret it" or that I "should try to get along for the children's sake"
Nope, it's especially because of my children that I've finally decided to keep her at a distance.
9 years after I've made that decision, I can tell that it was definitely the right choice.
Can relate. I haven’t been on speaking terms with my dad for the past 10+ years and the amount of people who have told me that I should be the one to try to repair the relationship is staggering. I’m sorry, but even as a fully grown adult, the very least I can ask is for someone to meet me halfway. If they’re not willing to do that, it’s not a relationship I need in my life and I’m definitely much happier for it.
You need to do what’s right for you and especially for your kids, and if that means not having a relationship with your mom, so be it. But I’m sorry you have to go through all of that because I know how much it sucks.
I've never really understood the 'be the better person' argument. As the wronged party, I'm already the better person. I don't need to do effort to keep proving it.
honestly, i’d say for that mom that didn’t go to her daughter’s graduation that as a person, she isn’t an asshole, but as a mother she is. she needed to take into account that this isn’t just some casual friend who she felt betrayed by. it was her daughter who needed her support. sometimes as a parent you need to put aside personal feelings of betrayal to care for your kid. and after she supported her daughter, she should’ve had a conversation with her daughter about it all. the punishment type lesson was not the way to go. it sets the relationship up for further failure.
i would like to add that her dad put her in that . it must've been a horrible feeling for her to have to chose between her mom or her dad when she clearly wanted both ( is say this because of the "i'm sorry but no") to be there. Her dad is clearly trying to split the family up , most likely to use it to get what he want. whatever that may be.
also that may make her feel like she has no family. like her parents ditched her. or she’ll now see her mother like her father… it seems dumb to me personally
First story: the parents are the AH. Picking favourites like that is what led to bad blood between the children, and instead of attempting to fix what they had broken, they decided to double down and tell OP to "let her have this one." What's next? Should OP just let their sister adopt their child too, because Sister can't have children of her own? Because that's a likely scenario to happen if OP were to give in. The more you give in after you've set your boundaries, the more people will demand of you. And the entitlement those parents give their GC doesn't make it seem like they'll allow OP to have anything their sister doesn't have.
I agree that OP should cut contact with parents and sister for their own mental health.
It might lead to GC sister taking over OP's place as the unappreciated child, which will be extra painful for her, falling from such a high place, but this is not OP's responsibility.
Second story: the parents are the AH. OP could've told B that she'd be there and be the adult by not starting a fight, and if B's dad can't do the same, she'd try to avoid being around him, but that it's not B's responsibility to appease their father by keeping the people they love from coming to the graduation. But she didn't. She blamed her child for the situation, instead of her ex, who clearly needs to grow up some more. If I can be in a room with the woman that threatened to harm me for years, just so my children can enjoy their graduation, I'm sure B's parents could do the same.
And in the end, B's dad hurt B greatly, clearly being too selfish to go through with it. And what does OP do? She is still angry at her child for daring to want to have a parent at their graduation, and hurts B even more.
"You betrayed me!" Says the mother that betrayed her own child, who needed her so much at that moment.
Both parents are terrible!!!
I hope B gets the help they need from their therapist, because they really need it.
And I have a feeling B will go NC with both parents once they are independent, unless the parents get some therapy to learn to be f!cking adults.
Third story: NTA. There was no previous agreement that OP's mum would clean the apartment, let alone that OP would pay for it. Their mum is the AH for acting without permission and expecting to be paid for it.
Imagine if I'd go into houses, cleaned them, and then told the owners that I'm a professional cleaner and expect them to pay me for my labour.
That's F-ed up, and anyone saying it would be the first whose house I'd clean without their permission. And yes, they'd have to pay me for it, because they just said it's justified to ask for that compensation.
facts
OK, I'm far older than your other viewers, I'm guessing, but here's my read: you were right on every count. My only other thought would be that I would’ve been a bit harder on graduation mum--major moments in your child's life are *never* the time to keep score or 'teach' something. If there was something teachable, it was that adults move past vindictive impulses (even though I'm pretty sure we all have them) and act like grownups. OK, ‘nuff said. Well done on all counts!
Exactly. No parent was there to cheer her name when it was called. No parent was there to take her picture as she got her diploma. No parent was there to hug her after the ceremony. If that’s the kind of punishment this mom is okay with dishing out, this girl has two assholes for parents
so well put, thank you
Boundaries people, boundaries! Use them and don't tolerate people that step over them. Amazing advice I was once given and now live by.
Amen!
The way B reacted when her dad let her down makes me think that whenever her dad let her down she always expects her mum to pick up the pieces. That said I think communication is key. Eighteen is old enough to have an honest conversation about how much being cut out hurt. I think the way the mum taught the lesson isn’t of talking to her kid is an asshole move, but I also think it’s easy to say someone made the wrong choice as an unaffected neutral bystander.
Oh wow... I get the heartbreake of my kid disinviting me to their graduation, but I think as parents we need to be the bigger person. This memory won't go away.
That’s exactly what I was thinking. The mom should’ve been there for her instead of trying to “teach her a lesson,” not only because she was graduating but because she was probably upset about her dad.
I think the only definite asshole in this situation was the dad
Right? The person who needed to be taught a lesson was the asshole father who tried to manipulate Bee into disinviting the mom. Bee needed support from a parent, not shaming and victim blaming for being manipulated by their father.
Especially a mother should love unconditionally. She should have gone to graduation and she should make the same decision to support her daughter and be there for her, always. Even if similar situations come up again in the future.
The daughter will eventually see all the sacrifices that her mother has been making and that will be her lesson learned.
I also think that B might be testing (for lack of better words) her mother to a certain level. Maybe unconsciously so.
Her father has left her and now she might be expecting every other person she loves, to do the same thing. That's something to consider
It's not as if the parents had to sit next to each other. Most gradation seeting is generally admission.
Obviously dad as a jerk.
I looked at the update post of the graduation mom, and most of the comments are just insulting the daughter for wanting her dad to come back and telling the mom she has done no wrong while calling the daughter a “piece of work.” I honestly think it’s a huge asshole move to abandon your kid on the most important day of their life so far while you still fully had an opportunity not to just because you’re jealous they want to spend time with the other parent they never get to see. Divorced parents tend to have a very “it’s me or them” mentality with their kids and try to force them to pick one or the other and it’s really harmful for everyone
What her asking her mom not to come says to me is that she is looking for a reason why her dad left. She’s trying to understand why she was abandoned and see if there is any way to get her family member back. Right now her thought is “Maybe he just doesn’t want to see mom” and this event probably taught her that him missing mom isn’t an issue, he’s an issue. Her mom also abandoning her through this is probably telling her she is the reason she was abandoned.
i just want to point out that i’m pretty sure that $140 for two hours cleaning an apartment is excessive.
i am not a cleaner, not speaking from experience but i believe, from the cleaners i’ve had, that the rate per hour usually falls within the 10-20 pound area, give or take.
depends how good the job is and how much they have to do.
$140 for two hours in an apartment owned by someone who seems to be struggling financially so therefore probably doesn’t have a penthouse or anything is overkill. especially your own child oh my god like-
there need to be some boundaries here
Considering the mother decided to use the spare key and enter the apartment without permission, and then clean without permission… I doubt she knows what a boundary is.
I had a cleaning business and if it's a 2 bedroom apartment $140 is about spot on. Ten years ago when I stopped cleaning the same would have been $90 - $120for a 2 bedroom depending on other factors which might take more time or effort. I never charged by the hour, that's a losing proposition, only by the job.
I absolutely love the way you address these. I don't see a lot of people acknowledge how there is a bias when reading these things and how you acknowledge when someone is being red flag-ish even when they're not the one in the wrong.
Second story... Like, as a mom, we all do things we're not proud of and I think being hurt and refusing to go was lashing out. Cold shoulder/removing yourself is emotional abuse. Full stop. Your child may be legally an adult but the science knows better, their brain is not done growing.
They say she went to therapy but clearly she's not healed. You chose to make a child with a partner who didn't hold up to the test of time. That sucks. But it in the end you showed your child with abandonment trauma that her fears are valid. Honestly, I think they should do some joint therapy in order to get through this since the damage is already done.
i hope so too
BS
Mom made a mistake. "Full stop."
Can we please stop using "abuse" so freely. This is an 18 year old who did not want her mother there only 12 hours prior. Not a child who she just told to choose which parent she loves. I'm sure it hurt, but it isn't freaking abuse, and using that terminology so lightly is not okay
@@katharineeavan9705 agree to disagree. science shows that 18 is not fully grown/developed so, while yes, you are a legal adult you are not yet fully grown and any parent worth their salt (IMHO) will still treat their child with the love, care, concern and compassion they would have extended to them while they were still 17 years 11 months and 29 days old.. 🙄
18 isn't some magic number.
@@InThisEssayIWill... 18 is far from a child. You may not have a fully developed brain, but you have more than enough life experience not to utterly disregard someone and then expect them to be okay with it. And I speak from experience: an 18 year old is more than old enough to know better than to pick their deadbeat parent over their actual parent when the deadbeat is the one presenting an ultimatum and to then blame the actual parent for taking them at their word and making other plans.
Would it have stung? Yeah, I'd imagine so. Would it have been nice for the mum to have gone anyway? Sure. Would I have in her place? Honestly, depends how often this kind of thing happens and whether the daughter was likely to keep doing it. Is it at all abusive to refuse? Absolutely not.
Expecting your parent not to be hurt and to abandon plans they made when you emphatically told them mere hours before that not only were they not welcome but they outright weren't allowed to attend your event is something that might be acceptable in a 14 year old if they're particularly immature.
If the mom who didn’t go to the high school grad was going to use it as a teachable moment, she should have clearly stated that she was making plans during the grad celebration then. Saying “ok, if your dad is going to the grad, I’m going out with your aunt and just let me know if he’s staying longer than expected”. This way the daughter knew you were then unavailable during that time if stuff changed. Then, if (as expected) the dad cancels, you can say “unfortunately I already have set plans with so-and-so” and express your support for the graduation but that you can’t just cancel or change plans so last minute. This would have clearly defined the mom’s limits in how she wanted to be treated/respected and maybe highlight how important keeping promises (something dad apparently doesn’t do often) is when you agree to things. Leading by example and teaching lessons is a parent’s job. However, saying “that’s what you get for your poor treatment of me” is kind of like tossing toys from a pram. Life lessons are hard enough to experience gracefully. No one needs an I told you so on their grad day.
On the mum graduation one, I come from a really similar background and the thing that people don't get when you have a absentee vs supportive parent is the child's outlook.
From the child's perspective the parents time from either side is equally important.
Ergo when you spend hundreds of hours with one parent, and none with the other, when the opportunity comes to spend some time with absentee it immediately outweighs the supportive parent's time.
As a analogy for people who aren't in this situation and aren't following.... imagine you are only allowed to eat sushi every meal, all year, every year. Yeah sushi is great and all, but if someone offers you "hey would you prefer sushi, orrrr be naughty and have some cheesecake for lunch?" umm obviously you pick the cheesecake!!!
Yes you know the sushi is healthier, but this is a *once in a lifetime opportunity* which you *cannot* miss out on.
For you guys who have equal attendance parents seeing one of them for a hour doesn't feel like a once in a lifetime event.
For absentee/vs/supportive parent kids it is ALWAYS a once in a lifetime event *everytime* and is especially important when the situation itself is also *a once in a lifetime graduation*
For everyone who had equal time from both parents, you see their emotional commitment as the more important factor.
Just "showing up" isn't enough because both parents will *always* show up equally.
Therefore you'll obviously invite the most supportive/doting parent because the *quality* of time is what you're finding most important.
Is this fair on the mum in this story? no not at all.
But becoming a adult, which the "child" in this situation has only just started that adulthood journey, realizing your skewed views and their root cause takes lots of inflection and usually therapy .
She may have been to therapy already, but therapy only ever talks about what YOU think is a issue, because they only talk about what YOU bring up.
You don't know what you don't know.
You don't psychologically grapple with things you aren't psychologically aware is even a issue.
I graduated uni a year ago, and only just *started* unpacking my weird family dynamics within the last year.
That girl in the story could be anywhere from 16 to 20 depending on the type of "graduation" they're talking about.
Of course she's still stuck in her childhood version of "what is a good parent".
She's basically only just left her family and only just started to be exposed to other experiences which could cause her to realize her view of her family is Fd.
The mum is the AH in this situation, in my biased opinion, because although yes this situation isn't fair on her, she's had this entire time raising her daughter and has always *known* her skewed family beliefs and family dynamic.
She was probably aware the father would cancel too.
This was entrirely a vindictive backlash because she's feeling salty.
In a equal-equal dymanic it's fine to not leave time open for a chance of a cancelation, you take care of yourself first.
In a mother-child dynamic it's absolutely not okay, you're supposed to put your child *above* yourself, your wants, and any pettiness that arises.
Sorry long, I have lots of feelings and thoughts on it.
Thank god someone put it into words, I was going crazy here haha. I'm very glad my mom did her best when her ex ruined one of my sister's 16yo party, even if she had prioritized/trusted him. My sister was still hurt and trying to hurt ppl the same way years later, I can't imagine how B will deal with it.
The whole graduation thing is such an awful situation. As a mother myself with some flaky people that want to be involved with my children, I always have the backup plan in case someone doesn't show up. I probably would have planned to go separately, only stay to see her get her diploma and snap a few pictures, then leave before interacting with the father. I know how it feels to not have someone there for you, and I don't want that for my children. I 100% would have dropped the plans with my friend to support my daughter. No questions. Your child needs you, you step up and do your best.
The one with the mother cleaning their apartment... That's just like the worlds worst B&E. She broke in using a key she had no business keeping, messed with your stuff, then charged you for it? Maybe break into her house, cook her dinner, then tell her you're even at that point.
In my experience as a 2 time graduate and a current graduation staff member, you can't attend without the graduand getting a ticket for you, you can't just get one yourself. So if dad said no and daughter said she supported that, then mum couldn't attend on her own as she wouldn't have a ticket.
I'd imagine she wasn't keen to hang out with her ex anyway and so the plan wouldn't have been for them to all be sat together or anything, the dad was just being a d*ck and would have refused regardless of whether the mum kept her distance.
I've definitely been in B's place before, and it's not fun. I won't say that mom was an A-Hole per-say, but I feel like she should have gone about it better. Everyone takes their own time to heal, and B is probably still going through that process. Instead of refusing to go to the graduation, the mom should have sat down with B and explained to her how it really hurt her when B chose her father over her mom. This way B learns a lesson and still has a parent to support her during her graduation. I also feel like this is a bad situation to have a lesson-learning moment because I don't feel B needed to learn a lesson, I feel she just needs to heal.
If you call your child the name of someone you resent and dislike (for whatever reason), until you work past those feelings, I feel you will pass on that resentment to your child and no kid deserves that 3rd party hostility.
The last story is literal textbook fraud
Regarding the advice on invite everyone let them make the choice advice. When one of the people invited has experienced abuse and the other is the abuser, sometimes as the event host/invitee you have to make a choice of who to invite/ support. By inviting both in this case you are effectively siding with the abuser.
In the second one, I don't think the mother is an asshole, but it feels like the decision she made just about everyone (including herself) more miserable then they already were.
I think going to the graduation would have been a better decision, but considering the complicated emotions of the situation, I don't think anyone's really at fault.
Well, maybe the father...
@@HeatherSealey yeahh..
If I would be the mom, noone would have kept me away from the graduation of my daughter in the first place. If the father wouldn't want to have me there he could have felt free to leave...
@@jackoh991 Don't worry, I won't have children one day. But I think even parents have rights. And communication is the key.
Maybe I misheard the first one, but to me it came across as a subliminal message to “hand over your child to your sister.”
“She can’t have children; let her have this one.”
Even if those weren’t the exact words, it sounds like this woman is expected to share EVERYTHING with her sister.
There may be legit resentment behind her less-than-kind words at the beginning of her story.
I was over the moon about becoming an aunt, but this actually sounds kinda creepy.
I think there's more going on in this mother-daughter relationship than the poster is saying. Assuming her daughter is a 17/18 year old graduating high school, I don't think it's really fair to ask her to handle her parents' conflict. Also, I think a parent proudly stating that they're their child's "best friend" is kind of a red flag. It's not super developmentally appropriate for teenagers to have the kind of relationship with a parent where they "do everything together." I'm not interested in labeling the mom here an asshole, but I don't like the way both she and the father are prioritizing their own feelings instead of setting things aside for one afternoon to support their kid.
It's really common in a single parent/single child setup for the pair to be both family and best friends. The situation kind of forces you to be a little co-dependent together.
I can feel similar feelings to the first one.
I have 2 Deaf siblings and our HoH (hard of hearing) sister was treated quite differently from the rest of us, 5 siblings altogether.
A lot of things were catered to her and she ended up becoming a very disliked sibling among the family because of it. Not only that but she also ended up doing joyrides, stealing money, breaking and stealing things from us all without repercussions from our mom. My oldest brother got the worst of it. He is fully deaf and she bullied him for so long that he had very bad self esteem problems. Despite him being a very tall and large man now and even as a child (some people get intimidated by his looks) he is quite shy and anxious.
Overall though the family seems to have worked through this and we have a decent relationship with her still. But I'd say my mom and her are kept at a bit more of an arms length than the rest of our siblings because of all this.
However for the first one it seems they haven't gotten the chance or ability to work through it all as we had.
Life is too short to let bad apples rot your family tree. I say cut the bad out and enjoy your life without the toxicities they bring.
Happy Pride Month! Wishing a great year ahead to my Queer Peers in the Queersphere. ♥️
I never heard Queersphere. I love it!
Happy Pride 🏳️🌈 Much love from a queer peer in the queer sphere 😎
I think the mom should have gone to the graduation in the second story. Like Shaaba said, the daughter was hanging on to the hope her dad would finally pull through for her, so I feel like she’s already sad enough. Though I don’t think the daughter should have agreed to the dad saying “it’s her or me.” But the mom should be the bigger person. You can talk about why you were so hurt, but you still go.
USEFUL NOTE FOR EVERYONE
"Blood is thicker than water" isn't the original phrase. The ACTUAL phrase is "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb", meaning that the friends and family that you choose to have are more important that any biological relations.
On another note, you can take the phrase "Blood is thicker than water" differently because maple syrup is actually thicker than blood, so pancakes/waffles are more important than family (a note for the second kind of person that there consistently proves to be).
If anyone wants, the can reply to this with other phrases and I'll see if I can find the originals that have different meanings
Love these AITA reaction videos, more of this please! I would go with a soft YTA for the graduation one, 18 is still basically a child imo, especially before they move out, and events like a graduation where they aren't going to happen again aren't a time to teach people lessons. As you said, I would have gone as the mum, but with a long sit down conversation along the lines of "I know your dad put you in a really bad position and then hurt you, but you also really hurt me with your response".
Graduation story: The mother was the asshole. I think a lot of other comments have explained very well, why that was absolutly not the right moment to "teach her a lesson".
In my own family, my younger brother uninvited our mother from his graduation, after she treated him mostly very harsh since i moved out 2 years prior to that and he didn't wanted to share this memory with her. Instead, he invited me and my gf to go with him. My mother was obviously very sad and disappointed, and asked him to reconsider, but since she kept treating him the same, he wouldn't. Our mother then made the right choice and respected that it's his decision, even when it hurts her. She asked me to take pictures and even invited us for dinner afterwards to celebrate a little. Even though it took a while, she saw how her ways wouldn't lead to what she wanted, but would only make us estranged with her. She chose our wellbeing and having a relationship with us and tries to do better, even if it's small steps. It's not all good now, and there is still a long way to go, but being a parent doesn't mean that you get to controll your kids, it means being there for your kids, which is not what OP of this story did.
If the person asked their mom to clean their apartment for them, I would understand wanting payment. But they didn’t even ask for the apartment to be cleaned, and that mom massively overcharged the child for something that they didn’t even want in the first place.
The Sister needs to back off!! It would have been loving for Mom to attend the graduation! And the apartment cleaning while the residents are away sounds like a sweet gift. No money if no contact!!
Although I understand why B's mom did what she did in response to her ex being an asshole and pushing her daughter into acting like an asshole, the mom's decision to not attend the graduation is an asshole move. She did this not from a place of being a parent and wanting to teach a positive lesson, but rather from a place of hurt and resentment. She ended up engaging in a similar kind of emotional manipulation which is going to have long-lasting scars. She needs therapy and so does her daughter. And one day the daughter will understand that she needs to deal with the problematic relationship with her dad. But the mom needed to be the bigger person and be there for her daughter on graduation day.
B's mom is TA IMO, the graduation was wholly about her daughter and she should have put her own feelings aside. Im not saying this applies to every situation, parents are humans too, but on maybe the most important day of a childs recent and foreseeable life, parents shouldnt be imposing their feelings on them and trying to teach them something by it.
@@jackoh991 i dont think so, its not because in hindsight the wedding might be more important than the highschool graduation that that is the case in the moment. And it also isnt like this is a topic that the mom has now changed her mind on, causing less harm in the future. The harm has been done and B wil carry that with her regardless.
Like for real plus the father was obviously being manipulative
Exactly what i thought too! She only has one daughter, B. B will only have one graduation. And the mother abandoned her on such a big day, just like her father, teaching her that both of her parents are unreliable and shouldn't be fully trusted. She should have gone and discussed her feelings with B afterwards. Very poor decision overall
You need to do one of these with Jammi! Awww it would be so cute to see you guys react to this. Just how Jammi gets so smitten when he’s around you… 🥰
For the Graduation story, I feel an immense frustration with people who treat parents like they have equal social responsibility to like, a friend. Parents are people, yes, but they have a responsibility to the development of their children.
idk, I gotta say the graduation one is the asshole. I do believe in teachable moments, but I also believe there's a time and place for them and your child's graduation isn't one. especially if they already have abandonment issues from one parent. gotta be the bigger person there, maybe have a conversation about it later. but I've been the kid that didn't have a parent there. that stuff sticks with you in a bad way, its relationship ruining.
personally I think that mom was acting childish about the graduation ceremony. I can understand that she was hurt, but petty stuff like this is not what a proper adult and parent should be doing towards their child. ever heard of being the bigger person? yeah. that was a huge milestone in her daughter's life and she let her down. I am sure the daughter learned less about how her actions have consequences, and more about how she cannot count on either of her parents when it counts the most. that mother is not her daughter's "best friend"; she is her MOTHER. and should act accordingly.
The graduation thing is rough. The mom has every right to feel hurt and unappreciated. The thing is... to her daughter, mom is the reliable one. She's the dependable one. She's always been there for her, despite the pain caused by her dad. So when this chance came to kind of force him to be there for her, she jumped at the chance. Irrational, yeah, but I'm sure she thought "this will be the chance, and though I know it hurt mom, she's the solid one I can depend on."
Again, is this rational? Not really, but how often are we rational with these types of crazy emotional moments? And as an 18 year old. No, not a CHILD, but not a full adult, really.
So this could have gone two ways. One is that the daughter is upset at her father, and mom says, "I'm so sorry, honey, of course I'll be there." Then, later, she sits down and talks to her daughter about how that made her feel. Then the daughter has been betrayed by one parent, but supported unconditionally by the other, and I think she learns a genuine lesson. The other is this way. Now, she was betrayed by two parents. What's supposed to be a special day is now irrevocably tainted for her. And now, in years to come, how is the mother going to think back to this day? Will it feel good? Will it feel like she made the right choice? Will she be happy that she missed her daughter's graduation in order to teach her a lesson? I doubt it. So, I guess, neither daughter nor mother is truly the asshole (dad is, of course). But I do think that the mom has royally screwed up, and may have done permanent damage to their relationship. I know she was hurt, I really understand that. But she's the parent. She let her pain get in the way of real parenting. And I think she is going to deeply, deeply regret it in years to come.
Idk I think I'd call the graduation one an asshole. It's not that I don't understand where she was at emotionally, but I think when you sign up to be a parent you make a promise to do better than that. That's something one kid would do to another kid, not something a parent should do to their child. I don't buy the "teachable moment" thing, I don't think in the moment she wanted her daughter to 'become a better person,' I think she wanted her to feel hurt and regret in payback for the hurt the mom experienced. And that's not okay.
Regardless it was an asshole move and I hope the mom learns a lesson from this as well, and that their relationship can eventually heal from that kind of letdown.
yeah
B's dad not being at any of B's milestones is HIS responsibility, not B's, or B's mom's. Suck it up, you had a baby with a woman you now don't want to see. This isn't something that happened to you, you did this. Deal with the consequences instead of dumping them on your daughter.
exactly it HER night not his
I feel like I’m in a minority reading the comments, but I think the graduation story mum is in no way an ‘A’. She asked her daughter the night before to let her go, B still said no. If she had found out just a couple of hours later that her dad wasn’t coming she still wouldn’t have invited her mum. It was basically timing that made the mum her second choice go to. The mum was going, she got uninvited. The dad is definitely an ‘A’, and maybe because my parents were always both there for me I can’t see this one… but I think B needs to not take her mum for granted and treat her like she’s the consolation prize. At 18 I feel like she should have an awareness of her mother’s feelings. That said, I would have still gone to the graduation…
It's difficult because we don't really see the timing or full conversations here. But as someone with a complicated dynamic between parents I do understand were B is coming from, a person that is extremely important to you that you dont see often promised to come to sth that is really important to you as well so you disregard any warning signs and just grab the opportunity with both hands the consequences be dammed.
I also think the Mum couldve easily anticipated that Dad was going to be a no show and no matter how much it hurts her not to attend the graduation she knows how much her daughter treasures time with Dad so it wasnt a personal slight on Bs part. I also truly don't think B was thinking of Mum as a second choice she just really really wanted to appease Dad. Mum should've recognised that and gone to the graduation the learning should've been done through clear conversations afterwards.
Most 18 year olds are probably aware of their parents feelings and do consider them but there are 2 parents involved here whose feelings B is taking into consideration and it's basically an impossible ultimatum she went with what she determind to be the best risk/reward szenario Get Time with Dad! (Impossible to achive) vs Mum will be slightly upset and disappointed (we'll talk it out and still have many amazing things after)
In the end Dad is the arsehole. I know it can be uncomfortable to have to sit next to your ex but if you love your daughter you set that aside my parents don't talk even moved to different countries to avoid any and all contact, My parents still came to all my graduations and suffered through the silence. I had 2 grads one Covid one I even disinvited my siblings bc I just had 2 spots my parents somehow survived the evening sitting alone socially distanced to others at a table for most of it. The other grad my Nonna (Dad's mum) came too so my mum only had my siblings to talk to the whole time if she wanted to avoid snide side eyes from Nonna. It was uncomfortable for all involved (especially my mum she even offered to miss it, she's the primary parent btw, to make it less uncomfortable for me and offer me time with my Dad and Nonna who only come when there's something to brag about like getting amazingly good marks on GCSEs and A-levels).
The mom isn’t an A, but she did irreparably damage her relationship with her daughter and taught her daughter she couldn’t be relied on to fix everything. At 18, no she doesn’t understand her mom’s feelings and she doesn’t understand her dad’s behavior is wrong. Dad being an A and her mom picking up the pieces is her normal, that is all she knows. She doesn’t see the sacrifices her mom makes. Until she starts talking to other people who grew up in different circumstances she will not really understand that her situation isn’t universal, at 18, unless she’s been in therapy, she hasn’t started questioning her ‘world order’ yet. That comes with time and exposure to different viewpoints.
When I was in HS and I called my dad in the middle of his work day because my sister and I were at the wrong bus stop and couldn’t walk home, I didn’t understand that work isn’t somewhere you can’t just leave whenever you wanted, I didn’t understand that he was probably terrified imagining everything that could go wrong, I didn’t understand the mental maps he had to be doing to translate the description of a location from a kid who didn’t know where she was into an actual location (pre GPS), I didn’t understand what ‘getting a ticket’ meant and he had to balance his desire to speed v the time lost if he got pulled over, should he attempt to call mom who was closer but didn’t have reliable access to a phone, I am sure there are still factors I’m not considering; all I knew at the time was we were fine but we needed to get home and dad would pick us up and he did. It did not occur to me for years that for my parents this wasn’t funny but terrifying, because all they said about it to us was ‘I’m glad you called’. To this day, I know if I need help I can call my parents and it doesn’t matter what time it is, if they are annoyed at me, if I’m drunk, at an orgy, anything. I know in any situation if they capable to show up they will, it doesn’t matter how they feel about the situation I’m in, they will help me. But I will never believe them when they offer money, because unless it is something they want or vital and I cannot afford it they will not actually follow through. (To be clear, they can do whatever they want with their money, but don’t offer, not agree when asked - offer to pay for something if you don’t want to.)
What the mom taught her daughter is ‘I will show up and support you, but only if my feelings aren’t hurt’ - and that is a reasonable human response, and if she were enforcing that boundary with friends I would be applauding her - but she isn’t responsible for teaching her friends morals and values, she is responsible for teaching those to her daughter. When her daughter gets in trouble doing something she knows mom wouldn’t approve of, when dad manipulates her into something she’s uncomfortable with, daughter is going to remember this moment and will have to decide *if* she is going to ask mom for help. Mom definitely should have had, and still should have, a conversation with her daughter, probably family therapy if it’s accessible, but the lesson she taught her daughter isn’t the one she wanted her daughter to learn. And her daughter still doesn’t understand why her mom didn’t go, just that mom can’t be relied on and that is a dangerous lesson.
Happy Pride! These people are crazy. Hope all is well with them now! The sister could adopt, or get a dog to name. Much love to you and Jaime! 💜
Sometimes I watch shaaba and think she'd make an awesome genuine life coach. I always feel a bit inspired after watching her
That graduation story was WILD. Absolutely not ok for the mom to do that.
That first one got me a bit because I have a MIL who tried to convince me she should get to pick things out for my wedding because she never had a proper one (they eloped) and tried to insist she get to name my first child because she never got to have a girl. Luckily no one backed her up, and I just did my own thing (well husband and I did the things together) but I cannot imagine how hard it would be to have the pressure coming from multiple people. And unfortunately you can’t always cut people out when your family is all woven together, you can end up losing a lot more than the one piece you were trying to choose!
people can say "blood is thicker than water" all they want. But it's because of the certain actions they take and the things they say, they wind up watering down the blood to a point you can't tell the fucking difference. i didn't fully understand why some of my aunts uncles and cousins were astraind, but after witnessing how they behaved around my gran leading up to her passing, I was appuld. Chist, my dad was adopted and gave more of shit about my gran in the last few years of her life, whats that tell you??
It depends, did they have reasons to not give a crap?
I know that I will be like that when my mum will be old and dying, it might look bad from outside but I have my (good) reasons and I don't believe that everything can be forgiven just because the other person is dying
I'm sorry if I'm being disrespectful, I really don't know the context so I automatically compared your situation with mine. I might easily be in the wrong here
@@lapatti I wish I knew why they didn't visit as often as we did, but I have no idea where there priorities lie. there is just a lot of shit that happened that is not my place to say. What I will say is there were a lot of common culprits involved. Including dr*gs, alcohol, strait lying to our faces and a*use of our good nature.
the actual full saying is "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" which means the opposite of what people shorten it to. chosen family is where its at
You will be the best mother, seriously
my sister accused me of steal ng her daughters name, she only had a son and did not tell me she would name a daughter . i named my daughter after sheena easton
ooh I love this reddit Shaaba reaction series
Yes!
I think the graduation mom should have been YTA or maybe ESH. Being caught between divorced parents is always hard, and its worse when one of the parents takes it personally when you are simply trying to navigate an impossible situation.
The first one with naming the baby after the sister. Sounds like parental neglect and a sister brought up with no bounderies at all.
Set bounderies, make the contact or interactions with them less if they are bothering you, especially during pregnancy and allow yourself to be mad, angry and sad at your parents for neclecting both you and your sister!
Its vital that we aknowledge that our parents can fail, even be bad, or did their best, but allow the feelings that you have towards them to be there.
The sister sounds like someone who got whatever they wanted and cannot figure out when she steps over a line, but youll have to draw that line very clearly for her and keep her on the other side of it.
The mom that didnt go to the gratuation.
I wouldnt say she was an asshole, she should sit her daughter down and explain that they (mom and dad) can both go there and if he can leave if he think he cant handle it.
That said i think that should have been important for the mom to be there for the daughter when she decied to have her dad come instead of her, becasue the girl obviously deals with "daddy issues" and she was gonna get let down and the mom knew! Thowing a tantrum instead of being accepting, understanding and supportive is not okay.
When the girl get burned by her dad the mom should have been there she should have called her sister and cancelled or maybe brought her along?
Also being best friends with your parent, is not a good thing. Becasue the mom here clearly illustates that she is treating her 18 year old daughter like a friend who let her down and not a child who just got a new trauma added to her backpack by the man who should have been her dad..
Therapy, my advice is therapy.
I think it’s relevant in the graduation story that Mom made other plans. It’s not reasonable to explicitly disinvite someone from something, then be upset when they’re busy during the event at the last minute if you change your mind (even for what was in this case good reason!). While Mom could have potentially rearranged her plans with her sister in this specific situation, and I personally don’t know whether she should’ve based on the info in the post, it’s not necessarily a bad thing for her daughter to learn that people besides her will have schedules and plans and feelings that she’ll have to work around before she goes to college. Dad’s actions created a situation in which no choice was ideal, and he’s the only real AH in the situation. Well, him and the school who apparently couldn’t seat him and Mom on opposite sides of the auditorium- maybe this was a small graduating class, mine was ~750 so no real risk of seeing anyone you weren’t seated near…
Even if you have a good relationship with someone, you're not being the asshole if you don't name your kid after them.
The second story is hard. Because, you don't want the daughter to think that no matter how she disrespects you you'll be there at her call but you also wouldn't want to hurt her. So what I would probably have done is tell her that I'd go this time, but if she ever hurt and disrespected me like that again I wouldn't stand for it and let her deal with the consequences on her own. That way she'd know I'm there for her but I'm not a doormat.
For the second one it's really hard since I can see both sides. On the one hand, I can totally relate to the daughter because when I thought that none of my family were going to attend my graduation, it hurt me a lot. On the other hand though, I can see why the mother might not want to go. She's been really close with her daughter her daughter's whole life and suddenly the daughter tells her she can't go to her graduation just because her dad claims he wants to go instead? The daughter should've told her dad that if he really wanted to go, he would put up with her mother being there too. My parents have been divorced most of my life and can't stand each other, but they both came to my graduation. They just sat separately, and literally only interacted when we were taking pictures. So the way the daughter was acting about it definitely seems to me like she didn't want her mom there and only asked because her dad bailed, and I definitely can't blame the mother for choosing not to go, especially since she had already made plans to hang out with her sister. If I told my mom she couldn't attend my graduation cause my dad was there and then at the last minute asked her to come when she'd already made plans, I'd understand if she said no. And I don't even get along well with my mother.
Edit: Okay so after reading some other comments, I see that most people definitely disagree with me, and I can see why, but I still stand by my point. While I do think the mom should've at least sat down with her daughter and explained that the dad was no good, I can see why she may not have, if she didn't want her daughter to be disappointed. She was genuinely hurt that her daughter was basically choosing her absent father over her mother whom she thought of as her best friend. I feel like a lot of people are only thinking of it as the mom feeling annoyed and wanting to get payback, but to me it seems like more than that. Her daughter choosing the father no matter how shitty he gets seems to be a recurring theme for her, and she's clearly had to suck up the feeling plenty of times before, this incident was just painful enough to finally break her. I can relate to that.
A huge issue I have with my family is having to sit around and wait for them. I spent my entire freshman and sophomore years of high school sitting around and waiting for my older sister to be done with whatever club she had, since she had at least one every day, and my mother didn't feel like coming to get me when she knew I was going to get home eventually. Some days I'd be sitting around for 3 or even 4 hours with nothing to do. One notable incident I had was when I had been waiting for nearly 5 hours and didn't know where my sister was and I spent the last of my phone's battery begging my mother to come get me, and she refused because she didn't feel like getting up and driving. Another was when my sister literally forgot me there because of miscommunication between her and my mother. Having to put up with this for two years has resulted in me having major anxiety over the idea of having to sit around and wait for people like that. Junior year I couldn't drive, so my mother had to continue to pick me up. My younger sister had practice for two hours after school and my mother told me I had to wait because she didn't feel like driving to the school and then having to go back two hours later. It resulted in me nearly having a breakdown and explaining to her that it upset me, and she didn't care and continued to do it whenever my sister had practice. Eventually, I did have a breakdown and ended up walking an hour home in the pooring rain along the busiest road in our area. She didn't even bat an eye.
So to me, it doesn't seem like the mom was being dramatic or immature for not going, it seems like she was putting her own emotional health first. And as hurt as she may have been I think the daughter did learn that she needs to give up on her terrible father and that she can't expect her mother to deal with the consequences of his actions. Hopefully once she calms down they'll talk it out.
I love your videos, it’s like listening to a friend chat, you’re so kind and encouraging
1: Parents are the AH
2: Parents are the AH. They should've discussed it between themselves and work out what's best for their daughter
The last two…damn! I think with the graduation one, the mom, the dad, and the daughter were all the a**hole. Jeezus what a family! 😓 As for the mom slapping her kid with a bill who’s living from paycheck to paycheck? Absolutely insane! No, you’re definitely not an a**hole for not paying your mom for cleaning you didn’t even ask for. It’s completely ludicrous.
B's mum wasnt betrayed, her daughter was manipulated. Her daughter is so desperate for her father to be in her life and you've always been there. Kids crave what they dont have. All that mother did was show her daughter that she truly has noone to turn to because instead of supporting and comforting her, she tried to "teach her a lesson about consequences". I hate that parenting style so much, the world is hard enough parents shouldnt be kicking their kids when theyre already rock bottom.
No. Just no. Don’t leave your kid simply because they disrespected you. That is conditional love, not unconditional. As a parent, if you wanted them, and you want them in your life, you give them unconditional love. It’s ultimately your decision, but just as you said, decisions have consequences and you’ve scarred your child. She likely doesn’t understand why you said you wouldn’t go, and even if it means you will be there only if respected, they’re not going to see that. From now on, there will always be this tension. You let your daughter down. You made her feel humiliated. You made her feel unloved, and you have made her depressed. This really paints a picture in their mind of you. Don’t be surprised if you lose them if you keep doing things like this. They deserve to be respected as much as you. They may be younger, but they are as every much an adult as you and should now be treated as a peer, not a child that needs to learn a lesson. On top of that, not only are they your peer, but they are a fellow human who will make bad judgment calls. This is not the way to handle bad judgement calls. She already got punished for inviting her dad and not you. Her punishment was her father not showing up. You only made shit worse.
As someone with pretty shit parents, this isn’t it sis. Your parents are meant to be there for milestones and love unconditionally. A bad parent will give conditional love. Check their love language. If they see you as being there for them in a time of need and sadness as love, then you just said “I don’t love you”. Honestly, parents need to remember kids are mini adults. And that just because you’re older and wiser, does not mean you are above mistakes like your child is. You are the asshole and you should do something to make it up. You couldn’t be there on their special day, go out and make a new one. Celebrate it late and apologise.
Yes! Couldn’t have worded it better myself. Every child deserves unconditional love!
The daughter has been abandoned by her father. I think that, at some level, she might have tested (for lack of better words) her mother who's always been there until she wasn't anymore.
The only lesson that B has learnt is that anyone, starting from her own parents, could and will eventually let her down
About the cleaning, I would be livid if someone broke in and cleaned and then tried to make me pay them. I would never pay for something I didn't agree to in advance. Like, would she just break in a stranger's place, clean it, and then expect them to pay her. No, because that's crazy.
I know it's not how it would be spelt but..."assHoly-ness" cracked me up, to no end. Here in Trinidad we say asshole-ishness as in "Dat is some rel assholishnes he do dey". LOL
The one about B’s mom makes me sad. I honestly don’t think making your daughter have her graduation alone is “teaching a lesson about consequences” my mom had a childhood like B’s. Dad constantly skipped out. Would promise to be there and not show up. My grandma would ALWAYS go no matter what. Because she knew my mom would be devastated when her dad didn’t show. I had a similar up bringing. My dad didn’t blatantly do those things all the time but definitely would “forget” about things he’d promised to go to or agree to pick up a shift at work instead of going to an event for me. - so I think Bs mom was 💩-y for not going because she felt “betrayed” I’m sorry but your daughter didn’t betray you for being desperate for her father to be there for her. he manipulated her into not having her mom go just to bail on her. That man knew he wasn’t going to go from the get go. And yah know what I have a sneaking suspicion that B’s mom knew he wouldn’t go too. If the mom said that he’s constantly bailing on her- SHE KNEW. She knew who she had a kid with- she knew what type of man/ dad this person was. She KNEW he would disappoint their daughter. Why should make plans is beyond me. And then when he daughter was heartbroken about it and she CHOSE not to go- that’s vindictive. At that point I’d be like “you’re just as bad as dad. You’re choosing to ditch me” I feel sooooo bad for B. Her mom has some audacity to even think for a second that was a “lesson” that’s cruel. You only Graduate from high school once. And to have everyone cheering for their kids to walk across the stage and then hear silence because you were butt hurt that she wanted her dad to go. Like holy f. That’s entitled to say the least. I get her feelings being hurt by the situation- but she knew the dad would bail. The teaching moment would be “Dont let his actions ruin your happiness on your day” not “I’m gonna make you suffer and be alone for this huge life event because you picked your dad over me” like it’s giving “pick me” energy. And “how dare you energy” how dare B’s mom. I hope B saw that post and all the people saying her mom is in the wrong 😑
B's mom was absolutely in the wrong imo, if I was the daughter I would've been CRUSHED and it doesn't seem fair to ruin such a special day for her over an argument
She needs to tell her sister and parents to get lost. She gets to name her own child
I feel like the daughter's graduation one kinda comes more with the ranking of 'everyone sucks here'. Since while the mom absolutely has the right to feel shoved aside and like a second choice I think that was maybe more of a conversation that they could have had a few days later. I can also very much understand where the daughter is coming from since (while my parents were still married) my dad was really emotionally distant and there was always a part of me that wanted to be closer. But yeah... everyone kinda sucks in that whole thing.
My paternal great grandfather, my father and my brother all have the middle name Michael so when my sister-in-law fell pregnant, my mum said it’s entirely up to you of course but it would mean a lot if you have a boy if his middle name is Michael too - that’s a better way to approach that subject in my opinion
Scenario 2: “I wanted to teach her a lesson” by punishing her, when B was already punished by her decision of inviting her father and him ditching her last minute. She’s already been punished by a lifetime of trying to get close to him.
I get that op was hurt, but she is also very dramatic tbh, this was not a moment to punish your kid, this was a moment for you to support them.
It doesn’t surprise me the father doesn’t want to be in the same vicinity as op 🤷
I also saw someone comment here saying the mom is right, because que daughter is too accustomed to be let down by the dad and have the mom “pick up the pieces” guurl…that’s what a supportive parent should do wtf
I think maybe with the mom who cleaned the appartment, maybe the daughter's friends are wealthier then her? And see this cost as normal? Not that that would excuses it, but it would maybe explain why they tell her to "just pay it". If it's your mom cleaning and she chose to clean, without you asking. Their shouldn't be the conversation of payment in the first place.
With the graduation story if The mom was like just her friend or cousin or something would be different but she's her mom And she probably should have supported her daughter after she was abandoned yet again by the deadbeat dad
Is lesson is supposed to teach her who she can rely on or teach her to never cross you.
Also shout out to the dad for the frankly impressive amount of abandonment he was able to inflict on this child.
Take moms key away. Inform apartment manager know mom is not welcome. Bill mom twice the bill for damages she caused.
Graduation : the mom's completely the asshole! Graduation's such a huge milestone (if not the biggest when you're 18), it's so important that your child feels loved, ESPECIALLY when her own father ditched her! She must've had the crappiest day, I don't even understand how from the mom's perspective you would want to voluntarily miss such an event in your child's life.
Bottom line is, you weren't there for her when she needed you the most, don't you think her father not going is enough of a lesson for her to understand that he's shit?
Have a talk afterwards, set boundaries, communicate, but you're responsible for not being there as a parent, as someone who loves her. Even if she asked you to not come at first.
‘Chosen family is where it’s at’ ❤️
My father did things like these to me and I would NEVER uninvite my mum to anything because of him. I was a daddy’s girl and I had a difficult relationship with my mum, but she was the one there with me and he was not. When I was 15, I had a big birthday party and my mom did everything she could to shield me because she knew my father would maybe not come. He ended up there for 10 minutes after a couple of cousins knocked on his door and I was crying in the background of the party because he didn’t arrive. And my mother was there with me and I would never ever tell her not to be there. I was 15 and I knew I wanted both of them in my life. My father guilted me into many things but I never abandoned my mom like this. B’s father is the biggest ah here and B’s mother was standing up for herself. Being 18 is old enough to know to value people that are there for you.
Society usually disregards mothers’ feelings because we’re expected to know better and to love everyone regardless of our feelings. People should respect and honor their good mothers and stop treating us like we need to give our everything without ever getting any credit. Mothers are people too. We hurt, we need attention and love. It would never be a question if this person is as AH if she was not the mother, but because she is, she is expected to swallow everything for the good of the other family member (she is not a kid, she is surely immature, but she is 18!).
I'm half Irish, half Italian so I come from a HUGE family. My parents and siblings and I had a huge falling out with the Irish side of the family and don't talk to any of them anymore. Let's just say I was relieved when I got married and had way less people to invite 🤷♀️
As a person that have a pretty egotistical dad, I wanted him to be there more just because he wasn’t. My mom was always there and because of that, i would have made the same choice. It’s not a betrayal in that sense, it’s a child that really wants a father in her life and probably would do anything for him to be there. I get that the mom felt betrayed but i think the daughter felt that too.
This is super long but it ties in with the video
With that last one, it reminds me so much of this thing that happened between me and a former friend. I was living in temporary supported accommodation and part of my tenancy agreement was that I was not allowed any guests to stay over. I, however, had this friend who was rough sleeping so I let her stay with me. The accommodation I was in provided free sandwiches every night but I wanted to get my friend something more substantial so I went out of pocket buying in food for her. She was used to illegally boarding public transport but I once again went out of pocket buying her passes so that she could avoid legal trouble and/or fines. I even allowed one of her friends to join her one night, at even greater risk to my tenancy.
At a later date she requested yet another friend of hers that I'd never met be allowed to stay the night and I was very reluctant. She then decided to bring up the one time she'd tidied my place as leverage to guilt me into allowing this friend to stay. Now, I hadn't asked her to tidy my home and when I realised she had I made it clear that I was extremely appreciative of her generosity in doing so. But then to have that unsolicited aid be used as leverage to guilt trip me felt like a kick in the teeth. I conceded and allowed her friend to stay over, but shortly after this incident she left for a week to go on some kind of mental health course. When she asked, a week later, if she was okay to return and stay with me I told her that I no longer felt comfortable risking my tenancy for her, because if I lost my placement there I too would be forced to rough sleep. She got mad and acted like I was a monster, even once again throwing in my face the one time she chose to tidy my place. I cut her off because I couldn't deal with that negativity anymore.
It just felt like a d*ck move for her to repeatedly use her one unsolicited act of kindness against me when I had gone out of pocket and at great risk to my accommodation to help her out when she was in a tough spot.
So yeah, with that last AITA, OP is definitely NTA. Their mother provided a service that OP hadn't requested or agreed to, and then charged for it. OP should definitely tell their mother that they hadn't asked for this and as such will not be paying, and if their mother gets b*tchy about it I'd say it's bye bye mother time.
The cleaning story, that’s like buying someone a gym membership without telling them, and a year later you send them an invoice for the entire membership that they neither asked for nor used
The first anecdote really sounded like a subplot of ‘Eastenders’ or ‘Coronation Street’ 😂
i cannot fathom how people can think the mother who skipped her daughter's graduation isn't an asshole, she was the adult in the situation yet she acted like a child. the only one who was "betrayed" there was the daughter, and she was betrayed by BOTH her parents. i hope she has at least one emotionally stable adult around who can help support her because both of her parents are sorely lacking in that regard.
Ah boundaries and communication...
The first one is tough, in the end this is the result of parents favoring/ pitting siblings in effect against each other, by not giving each a balanced time and acknowledgement. If the sisters had tried to meet each other in the middle once they were of age the whole name incident could have been avoided. Compromise could have been revive the multiple middle name and give thebaby a middle name of her excited aunt. But as it stands as related it can't be solved with out some therapy.
So graduation story: I do think the mom could have handled this differently. With my youngest daughter wedding we had the same
problem, with my ex being the deluded abusive ex, at least til then. Because I put my foot down and said I am not missing this, and I know how to behave, he can come too. I then grabbed my bootstraps and contacted my ex and scolded him out saying you are not going to do to our daughter what happened at my wedding with no parents there, I know how to behave myself and you should come. We kept this to ourselves and he did come. It went smoothly, and not only did he apologize for his behavior during marriage but also told our daughter I convinced him to come.
The last one I really wonder if this is all the story as it seems a bit bizarre and out there, I wonder if there was a lack of communication and not paying attention to what the other said that led to this incident. I have had daughters not listen and say yeah yeah, and then be shocked when I took them at their word. But if this is the kind of mom who runs your life using this as a teaching moment, or is narcissistic, then I don't blame the daughter for being upset. In the latter take the keys back and limit contact.
Yikes, that last one!
My ex-MIL would come over to watch my cats whenever we were on vacation, she never ever wanted to be paid, we did take her out for dinner. Because she didn’t want to just feed the cats and leave, she also let them have garden time and gardened! Still, she never wanted to be paid for it. She enjoys gardening and loves animals.
Hell, I remember when I was still living with my parents, we had friends look after the house/mail. Their kids (late teens/early 20s) got to stay at our place those 3+ weeks, and made sure it was sparkly clean and tidy. No bill on the table or anything.
I don’t think the woman meant that the former issues listed were minor, I believe she was saying that the sister had some other issues that are minor (as in those other issues aren’t as bad/minor)
If the last mom had walked into the next apartment over, cleaned it and left a bill, she would have been charged with home invasion. It's irrelevant that she cleaned the house for you. She came over and did something you didn't contract her to do. No contract, no agreement. You want the money, get a lawyer.
My mom once decided to redecorate and reorganize my apartment while I was gone on a 3 week trip. I've been struggling with depression, and I guess she wanted the place to look nice when I got back. I can't tell you how *utterly stressed* I was to find my home in shambles upon arriving after a 4 hr drive. (it wasn't done when I came back about a week early) The trip was awful to begin with; My dog, whom I'd taken with me, had gone to the emergency vet with sudden ulcerative colitis. Then I'd suffered a falling out with the family I initially went to help while I was there. So let me tell you, when I say I was IN A MOOD- Tbh, it was really hard to explain to her that as kind as her intentions were, it was unwanted and the opposite of relaxing. It was sad and frustrating for both us.
If I had another reservation during the graduation, I would not have broken those plans because I’m then complicit in the crazy. If I was available, I would have absolutely gone to the graduation. This child needs to understand that, if you have made plans, you need to keep them. Her father is not telling/teaching her this. So, as her Mum, I would think it is important to understand following through on plans because you can disappoint the other person and disrupt their day. This is obviously a big thing she needs to understand and having Mum stick to her plans is an important lesson for her here.
so hang in there and don"t lister to any one but your own heart!!!!
That CHILD GOT DITCHED BY BOTH P
ARENTS!!!!!
ON GRADUATION embarrassment is all she felt instead of pride for HER ACHIEVEMENT.
Pick your battles!
Win the battle but losethe war
For the daughter’s graduation story: as a some1 that was put in the middle of fights a lot when I was a kid, I feel like the mom and dad might have been better parents by talking it out amongst themselves and figuring things out, instead of putting all the pressure and decision onto her. Biggest YTA to the dad though.
6:40 yeah having people you want invite to things not get along sucks. I have some friends that had a really bad falling out near the end of high school but I was still good friends with all of them. When it came to a couple of my birthdays for the years that came after I had to figure out where everyone stood with each other in order to not have fights at my party. One year I just had to hang out with one friend for my birthday a different day than the actual party since at that point it seemed like everyone was against her. I was at least grateful that no one held it against me that I remained friends with the whole group because they knew it was hard for me as I hate conflict in general.
The mom totally didn't see this as a teachable moment, she wanted to punish her daughter for having "betrayed" her. The daughter did not betray her. She is a child wanting desperately some sort of relationship with the father who has crapped all over her her entire life. Any mother should know that, it is normal and not a betrayal. Does it hurt when you feel like your child is choosing the bad parent over you? Yes. It is a natural emotion. But it isn't logical. Children need relationship with thier parents and will seek it out. In this case she knows her mom has always been there for her and she thinks that her mom will support her in trying to establish relationship despite the fact that it hurts. This is how children think, they rely on those who are consistent for thier emotional needs. They will grow out of it with age and become wiser and realize the impact this has ater when they're more mature. What she needed was for her mom to be there for her but her mom wasn't. This isn't a teachable moment, it is an emotionally scarring moment if not handled Right.This is a situation that could cause a lifetime scar that could also leave permanent damage to her relationship with her daughter. In my opinion she is trying to convince herself she wanted to teach her daughter something, but really she just wanted to get her revenge. Putting your daughter in the middle of two bickering and contentious parents isn't teaching. It's putting your kid in a situation that is impossible to win and where everyone including the daughter is going to be disappointed/hurt and for which the daughter at 18 doesn't have the emotional intelligence nor frontal lobe development to navigate. I hope she and the daughter will be able to heal from this but this could be hard to do. Yes the daf us wrong to demand it, but at the end of the day you have to recognize your child's needs and deal with it.