For the alchol story: that's OP's house. If they say no alchol, then no alcohol, period. It does sound like they hadn't notified the guests, which is a problem, but the only other issue is the wording. NTA for the rule TA for the wording and notification
Also, nobody was trying to bring alcohol into her house. They just didn’t want to go to a party width that boundary. Since it’s probably the biggest party of the year, I totally feel the same.
I don’t agree… the family is a huge asshole, I completely agree with the sentiment, “if you can’t have fun without alcohol are you really having fun at all” and it became very clear, these people are so hung up on get drunk and subjecting children there to it that they don’t even care for their family. It’s just simply gross, I understand the point but one day of the year to spend the day with your family and you won’t even truly be there… that just says you really don’t care. It’s grosssss.
Doesn't sound like he's working, so probably doing whatever he feels like, while his wife-servant runs his life for him, thanklessly from the look of it.
Tbf as someone who is a child of an alcoholic, I can kind of understand where OPs coming from. I can't be completely comfy and enjoy a party if alcohol is involved, and while I've worked through it enough to push through for other people's parties, if I'm hosting I want to be able to enjoy myself, which means no drink. THAT BEING SAID, I think OP needs to work through judging other people who drink, since it can actually be done in a healthy way, and accept that unfortunately if you're not gonna have drink, then you're not gonna be a party of choice. While I would judge family and friends who wouldn't come to an important event (eg. important birthday, wedding etc) just because it was no alcohol, I'm not expecting to be the go-to xmas host lol
I totally agree. Having an open and respectful conversation about it with the family is a much healthier way to deal with the issue. It can be really triggering for those of us with past trauma but covering up fear with rudeness and judgement helps no one.
Tbh what makes OP the ásshòle for me is her rude and judgemental attitude towards the family who do drink, if she were to message them something with "Hey family, I ask for my house to be alcohol free this Christmas, if you would like to step by for lunch and then go out for drinks for dinner you are very much welcomed to do so"
Yeah, you CAN. But if you feel like you absolutely need to dictate that rule against everyone's wants, then don't be surprised if no-one shows up or they don't stay long.
I’m shocked that anyone thinks you can’t ban alcohol in your own house. I’m really, genuinely shocked. Other people drinking absolutely *can* affect you, as they become increasingly drunk in your house. But OP’s attitude was pretty judgmental.
The banning alcohol one is super hard. I think the way OP has phrased her POV shows her pain from childhood trauma around her alcoholic father. It’s sad to me that her family can’t understand that and help her work through it.
I think the only think about that one that makes OP the arsehole too is her "Just be grown-ups" attitude which is patronising and judgemental and I could understand why people wouldn't expect to have fun at a party hosted by someone with that attitude (but are still arseholes for sabotaging her turn to host) However, if this extended family do drink excessively on Christmas and act in an aggressive, destructive or insulting way... then they're totally spot on and not an arsehole at all.
@@theomegajuice8660 No, being "too judgy" when exercising your own rights (like the right to set rules for your own damn house) doesn't qualify for an ah verdict.
That's what I thought too. It's clear OP is uncomfortable around alcohol because of her childhood, and she has a right to be comfortable in her own home.
@@jamestown8398yup. And people have the right to not attend parties held by people who they know are harshly judging their harmless choices. No one forced their way into her house with booze, they just chose to go elsewhere. She’s not an AH for not wanting alcohol in her house but she is an AH for acting like drinking at a holiday party makes her entire family in-laws immature and that they need to grow up.
On the, "You can still name your kid Anna, it doesn't run out of stock." It is a bit weird to name your kid the same as their half sibling, knowing that their half sibling is named this, even if it was your idea or process. Like, my name was supposed to be Lily May. My mum communicated this with my aunt. My aunt, 6 months more pregnant, named my cousin Lillian Paige. I was not named Lily. Jokes on them bc we're both trans and the names wouldn't have stuck anyways, but still. It's quite redundant to name two very closely related people the same thing. Especially when they're both kids.
Odd thing, there are a lot of multiple names in my family. We have several Michaels (including one Miguel, whose brother was Michael because with twelve kids my poor Abuela was running out of names, I guess), and multiple Marias, and a few Raymonds/Ramóns. In my ex's family, there were like a million Bobs. His paternal grandpa, maternal grandpa, his dad, one maternal uncle, his brother, two aunts' husbands, and one of his cousins. All named Robert, most going by variations like Bob, Bobby, Rob, etc. Plus, one of *my* tíos was named Roberto. It always felt weird to me to have that many same names in the family, but I dunno. Folks can name their kids as they please, I guess. It's just, with so many names out there, why be so restricted?
I mean, I have a sister named Allie and a sister-in-law named Allie. Their real names are Allison and Alexa, but they both prefer to go by Allie. Is this confusing af? Yes. Should we force them to go by their full names? No. Also, I have 2 cousins that are brothers and both married women named Amelia. Granted, both of these situations were the end result of a new marriage and could not have been foreseen when their names were given at birth, but I think ultimately, the end result is the same.
@@Arosukir6 It would be weird to have two siblings with the same name though, like imagine Elsa being like "this is my sister, Anna and this is my other sister, Anna." Having multiple people in the family with the same name is one thing but I would've hated having siblings with the same name and I wouldn't be too fond of my sibling's sibling having the same name as me either.
I completely agree on that, especially since they'd be one person removed from being sisters. I have a cousin whose name is different from mine, but they rhyme. It was a bit confusing when we were kids and grown-ups would call us by our nicknames and we'd never know who they were talking to lol. I don't think it was a problem or anything, but if the names were the same, I'd have definitely felt weird as heck. It's already bad to have 3 other people in your classroom with your name (happened to me at one point, my name is common in my country, and there was always at least one more person with it in my classrooms), but at home? I would have felt like I simply wasn't special in any way. A name is something personal, after all.
Something being glossed over is the op’s parent being alcoholic. Having experienced an alcoholic parent, I can understand how having alcohol invading my home (which is a refuge) can be triggering of emotional distress in the place where I would usually be able to find safely. The op is not being an arse hole. She’s setting a reasonable boundary. Everyone else is being insensitive about op’s situation.
Exactly! And I think we should also consider the fact that she wrote this after they planned a party behind her back. That could be part of the reason why she called them childish. I feel like people are glossing over the trauma and are tone policing her
Idk I have alcoholic parent trauma and I chose YTA. If it were me, it could have been dedicating another place to drinking or having restrictions on the limit. If people decide to go elsewhere because of your rule, that’s perfectly fine. It’s their decision as much as it is OPs to ban alcohol. Trauma or not, the way your word things matters.
OP having boundaries isn't what makes them an asshole. It's their attitude about other people enjoying something they don't. Could not stop name calling about drinking. "It's childish and immature", "people need to grow up", "we're adults..." like adults can't enjoy a glass of wine or whatever. Like all people who drink are alcoholics. OP also has not mentioned if they are so blatantly judgemental to the family's faces, but I wouldn't be surprised considering how incapable they seem of talking about drinking without harsh criticism. And all of this is speaking as someone who grew up around family dealing with alcohol and drug addiction. Boundaries are fine. Ugly and hateful mass judgements not so much. YTA on that one, but not for the reason you think.
I totally agree that a child from an alcoholic parent should be able to set boundaries and not allow drinks to enter their home, their safe space. However, that person also cannot expect to be hosting family events for their partner's family and just casually saying there's a no-alcohol rule without considering their feelings on the matter. If she feels uncomfortable with alcohol, maybe don't host a party for people who like to drink on a day that isn't about her. Do so for birthdays and such, not for events that are communal.
For the alcohol story, I agree that ESH, but OP is the asshole for their wording not for not wanting alcohol in her house. Even it had been about meat, I think someone is allowed to not want it in their house. They might not want to clean dishes that have that thing on it, for one. Also maybe OP knows that people would drink to much and make a mess. It's also kinda rude if the family knew that OP's father struggled with alcohol. If they agreed to take turns hosting Christmas dinner, and it was OP's turn, the family should have stuck it out for a day, but it was unclear whether this was agreed upon so I hesitate to call the family assholes.
I was thinking the same, I wonder if op has properly unpacked their trauma around alcohol (if so then hubs is the asshole for not being more supportive and explaining the situation to his family) I agree that she could have worded it better, but also host house=host rules. I wonder if she's seen them get sloppy before and is worried about the aftermath in her home. Cleaning up after drunk adults is not my idea of desirable hosting conditions.
OP is right though... If you can't get through one day without drinking, you have an issue. A Christmas party will still be just as enjoyable whether or not you have a glass of wine.
I completely agree. Even if it was about meat they have the right to say no. My partner and I are vegetarian and our rule is if visitors want meat they have to supply it, cook it and then wash up anything they have used to cook and eat the meat with but we would not be in the wrong to say no meat in the house
I honestly find it kind of sad that alcohol is so normalised people won't come to a party without it (saying this as someone who does drink, just fed up with the whole culture around it).
I am so happy with my friends. I never drink. Normally if I host a party I buy for my guests two bottles of beer or one bottle of wine, knowing their taste. But I've stopped, cause the beer expired as they decided some years ago as long as I am not drinking in my house they also won't. I hope that people could be more open and tolerant to new experiences. I understand that they want Christmas as always. But it is repeating everya year. Why not try at least something new....
1. My first thought was a bag of bagels and cream cheese. Breakfast, done. 2. My house, my rules. Having an alcoholic in the family changed my perspective and being around alcohol is a danger, especially if there's trauma involved. 3. I think the step mom is really rather sweet. Step family is extended family. Let it gooooooo!
I completely agree with number 2. I have an alcoholic in my family and to save arguments if my family ever visit there will be a no alcohol rule. Our alcohol (because me and my partner have a drink once every few months or so) will be hidden out of sight.
With no2- they didn't go against her and bring alcohol anyway. They understood her rules so decided not to go. You can't force people to come to your house. What if her rule was no presents? Or no tree? I'd choose not to go as it's part of Xmas. It's the only day of the year I do drink on
With the name thing, I think it's awful that the ex and his new wife would do that! It's not sweet unless they are all on good terms, and they checked with the OP first.
For the alcohol one, since they're hosting the party, they have the right to ban alcohol in their own home. I would not feel safe in my own home if people started bringing alcohol in
Exactly. It's her house, so she's allowed to decide what is or isn't consumed within it. If she was a vegan and said no meat could be brought into her house, that would be no different and she would also not be an AH. She's also right that if people can't get through one day without a drink, they have a problem. The Christmas party is enjoyable because it's a Christmas party and you're with people you enjoy being with. That happens whether you're drinking or not.
@@carr0760 This argument only works if OP does in fact fall into the category of “people you enjoy being with” based on the sanctimonious tone they take in their post it is possible they are not. OP have every right to set the rules for their own party and their guests have every right to choose to go elsewhere
Agreed; I don't drink and I've had parties that were intentionally alcohol free, although not with family. I think she's well within her right to ask people not to bring alcohol into her home, although I suspect that the way she went about asking for it made her relatives feel very judged. There are ways to ask for these things in a kind and positive way.
With the alcohol/ vegan scenario, I think you missed the fact that alcohol very much can affect others (drunk behaviour etc can be very triggering) and also some people are not comfortable with alcohol being used around children. With the vegan situation, I think no one gets to insist they bring meat into a vegan's home. It is literally part of a dead animal and that could be really distressing to people who don't consider it normal even if society does. In parallel, if a family didn't eat a type of meat for religious purposes, I'm sure most people wouldn't disrespect them and their safe place (home) by bringing pork to dinner! Ethical/philosophical beliefs such as veganism are akin to religious beliefs. You don't have to agree with them but if they aren't harming anyone, you 100% have to respect them.
For the alcohol one, we didn’t get to hear much about how the relatives behave when drinking, but I have elected to stop spending holidays with certain relatives on account of their drunken holiday behavior - I often felt uncomfortable and wasn’t having a good time. It may be that the OP wouldn’t mind everyone having a little alcohol if they didn’t get drunk and behave badly.
We also don't know how ops alcoholic family member was when they drank. Drunk people can be violent and nasty it could be something that caused a lot of trauma. I don't think op needed to say they need to grow up if they can't have Christmas without alcohol but they definatley need to evaluate their relationship with alcohol if they can't enjoy one day without it
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that, if they're so unwilling to skip alcohol that they'll go to the trouble and drama of setting up a rival event, then they probably don't have a healthy relationship with alcohol.
My mom's family will probably never have any kind of family gathering without alcohol, because so many of my relatives are connoisseurs of one type of alcohol or another (my dad made his first inroads in winning over Grandpa by actually knowing stuff about wine). However, I have very rarely seen my dad drunk, and I have never seen my mom or any of her siblings/in-laws/niblings drunk. They appreciate the wine or scotch or whatever their drink of choice is too much to abuse it like that. If that's the situation, I can very much understand why OP's in-laws are horrified at not being allowed to bring alcohol. On the other hand, I have heard and witnessed the horror stories about Drunk Uncle Cletus (from my dad's side... this is the genius who couldn't be bothered to put out his cigarette before using the propane tank in the back of his truck to temporarily air up his flat tire until he got home. It worked out as well as you might expect.) Lots of families have Drunk Uncle Cletus. If OP has legitimate concerns about Drunk Uncle Cletus ruining Christmas again, but this time when she's NOT powerless to stop it because it's her house... I fully sympathize.
Given OP’s language about people who enjoy alcohol are childish and need to grow up, I think there is still a level of “moral superiority” going on. Is that a result of her trauma-perhaps-but it sounds to me like she wants to shame those who enjoy alcohol in any capacity. I have a feeling she’d be the kind of person to remark “see, alcohol isn’t necessary at parties; I can’t believe how dependent all of you are” in the middle of the event. That makes for a hostile environment to be in, over something that people enjoy. It was definitely an AH move to plan an alternate party without having a talk with OP, but I rather understand why people wouldn’t want to be around someone with that kind of judgmental attitude, even if it stems from a traumatic place.
I have to disagree when you said "you wouldn't name your child just to spite somebody else." Yes, they would. People absolutely do use every single part of having a child to spite another person, especially an ex. It's terrible and manipulative, but it happens often enough. I think it's very weird that the new, much younger wife is naming her child to match her husband's ex's choice. It looks like she's really trying to wedge herself into the family, when she doesn't need to try so hard. I think the whole thing is very petty, and I have no doubts the ex-husband knew how OP would feel about it. They were married so he knew she would want the name Anna for a second possible daughter. That being said, the OP was wrong. Voice your opinion if you must, but not your baby so not your decision. She's not even pregnant right now and you can't call dibs on a name. And she really has no idea how much or little the movie Frozen means to the new wife because she's not even friendly with her ex.
I don't think you have to let someone bring alcohol in your home; although it might not do anyone else any physical damage, as the child of an alcoholic, it might be deeply distressing to have alcohol in their home. Having said that, it was framed in a judgemental way, which I know many found disengaging, but I think that's another layer of childhood trauma tbh
Even if op has some childhood trauma with alcohol they didn't have to come off as an asshole and if it's a trauma response then they need some form of help because coming off as someone who looks down on others isn't the best way to keep friends.
@@boooo13 100% agree with you, they need to work on themselves! Just trying to give some understanding of why they would be defensive about not having alcohol in their safe space
@@_E_m_m_a_. Oh i understand why they would be defensive. i just am getting tired of seeing people say that mental illness isn't an excuse for bad actions but then excuse the op for looking down on people because of their issues. I'm not saying that's what you were doing, i literally picked your comment seen it seems like you understand that op being judgmental isn't okay. I was reading some of the other comments where they are judging op's in-laws as being full on alcoholics (which they could be - i don't know but it's hard for me to not say that op isn't an asshole like others seem to be doing) and excuse op because of trauma. I just am getting tired of what all seems like black and white thinking.
@@boooo13 I think it's more to do with that the family planned an alternative party with alcohol in it instead of just going one day without alcohol to spend time with OP and that they were really hurt by that action, and that's why they came off as so judgemental.
As for the second one the only thing is that she said her father was an alcoholic so it might be traumatic or triggering for her to see people drinking so for me personally having lots of experience with my own trauma being ignored I’m conflicted for that reason
OP is definitely NTA for the alcohol one, and I'm glad you brought up the bra story. Interestingly though, this is one of the few instances where your reasoning in the bra story ("your house, your rules") actually applies! It's totally reasonable to ban alcohol or meat from your house if you're uncomfortable with it (although OP definitely should have spoken to their husband about it first), and I have many friends who have done so before. Food and drugs are sensitive topics and I would never begrudge someone for banning alcohol from Christmas. Also, it *is* weird that OP's in-laws can't go one night without alcohol, to the point of planning an entirely different event. That's such an extreme move to abstaining from drinking for one night. And I say this as someone who loves to drink on holidays and around family. Perhaps it is a culture thing, as one commentor pointed out, but alcohol shouldn't be that big in your life that you would choose it over spending time with a person. That behavior makes me think OP may be onto something and the family may be too dependent or behave badly while intoxicated. OP was definitely judgemental, sure, but for the matter of banning alcohol, OP was NTA.
I feel like a large part of it is op's tone when it comes to alcohol, it comes off as looking down on people to the point that even i wouldn't go to op's party and i don't even drink. Sometimes it's more of the person just comes off as an asshole so why would i want to go there to hang out with an asshole?
@@boooo13this! Making a compromise like “drink outside, don’t drink too much” or talking it out would have been fine. I’d be fine with a Christmas party with no/little alcohol, but don’t be like “what do you mean people don’t want to come :(((( I only banned something everyone else loves”.
@@kurapikakurta1997 You shouldn't have to compromise on something like that. Sure, no one is obligated to come, but I for one would be pretty hurt if people who are supposed to care about me prioritized alcohol over spending time with me. They can drink literally any other time, why would someone who cared about me ditch me on a holiday that it was understood we were spending together because I set a boundary in my own home about something that makes me uncomfortable? I agree OP was being judgy, but I do wonder how much of that was after the fact. She's been to their celebrations and put up with the booze and presumably never said anything (why would the no booze rule come as a shock otherwise?) and the SIL felt no hesitation in talking to her about cocktails, so it doesn't seem like she's been awful about it before. Obviously we only have her side of the story, so could be completely off, but I think it'd be pretty understandable to be calling them childish when feeling hurt over being ditched at Xmas because they couldn't go without getting hammered for a few hours on one Xmas day for the sake of their host's comfort. Honestly, it is pretty childish to set up another party without a word just because someone said no booze, and it would be pretty indicative of needing to grow up if you argued the point about whether you should be allowed to get drunk in someone else's home, particularly if the stuff about OPs dad is known.
Drinking can definitely harm other people. I come from a family that drinks far too much and they don’t trash things but it leads to a lot of emotions and arguments and difficult situations that wouldn’t have arisen if they were sober. Since childhood, I have had a pit in my stomach every time they reached for another glass or someone raised their voice or there was a loaded silence waiting for a reaction. The attitude of the OP in that case was definitely disrespectful, and I do think it’s more complicated when the discussion is whether someone can bring their own alcohol, ie you are actually banning it completely. I do sort of agree with OP that not drinking for one night should be a small sacrifice, even if I would never call it childish. I’m not sure it’s right to complete ban alcohol at your event, but I do understand why you would want to. If you are in someone else’s home, you can leave. If you are putting time and energy into hosting something in your own home, your safe space, and it’s meaningful to you, I really get that it’s complicated. I for instance don’t think I would ever want to serve alcohol at my wedding. I don’t want something that special to me tainted by what alcohol does to the people I love. But I also get that people have freedom to make their own choices.
I so understand your feelings around this. There is quite a lot of alcohol abuse in my family and it’s given me a lot of reservations around drinking. I am so sick and tired of people trying to force alcohol on me, too, when I refuse to drink because I’m not comfortable. I am only comfortable drinking 1-2 drinks either in my own house or with close friends. Not with colleagues, not with most family, not with strangers. And yet, colleagues over the years have insisted again and again, brinking me drinks I don’t like. ‘You have to learn to enjoy wine’ - no I do not get out of my face. I feel like OP someone doesnt realise her trauma and therefore jumps to her extreme judgement.
@@chantiemaya I agree, it's hard to make a definitive judgement on the situation because we don't know the whole context of the situation (in this case the past trauma of drinking for OP). I feel like this is a common theme among the AITA stories because it is hard, as the OP to transfer experience(s) into words, especially if it involves multiple linked historic events in a persons life or even multiple people's lives. Therefore, there is only so much we, as the spectators of this snippet of one person's experience in life can say/judge about said snippet and experience
Other people drinking around you totally affects you, I'm not comfortable around drunk people because they stand so close to me which makes me really nervous and they always talk so loud
TBH the Anna/Elsa one... Naming their daughter Anna is a bit...of a dick move. It's effectively pushing the OP out of the situation, as it's picking up where she left off with the family essentially. Like someone picking up your snowball to finish your snowman for you. I get the 'make her feel part of the family' thing, but it also feels like making a new family entirely. Also, having two sisters called Anna would be confusing for Elsa imo, if the OP had another daughter. There's no JR or SNR to be able to tell them apart, it'd likely become a case of Anna 1 and Anna 2 that would just push the hypothetical daughter aside in the family.
This. To me, the way she lashed out felt like this is about more than just the name. Sure her daughter is being included in the family. But it feels like she is being excluded from this whole new family her daughter has. I can imagine that being scary already as a parent. The name situation just pushed her over the edge. At least that is how it felt to me. Otherwise, her reaction is still way over the top.
That was my thought. Sure, OP could also use the name Anna, but how weird would it be for Elsa to have two sisters with the same name. It would be really odd and get confusing unless one of them goes by their middle name
I'm glad someone else sees it this way. Shaaba says it's "sweet" but it was OP's idea and her ex's new wife co-opted it without her permission. If it was a coincidence that would be one thing, but she's admitted that it was intentional.
I agree with the ESH for the alcohol one. However, I think that you haven't really acknowledged any of the childhood trauma OP mentioned from their dad being an alcoholic. Imo it is okay to ask people to go without drinking for an evening if you know this is a severe trigger for you. Especially if you are the one hosting the event. But the way that OP went about it doesn't sound like they explained this part of the story to their partner's family. And the way they wrote their post feels more like their main reasoning was "drinking is childish". And that is no reason to restrict other people in their freedom. So ESH. But not everyone banning alcohol from a party is automatically an asshole.
For the names one, I feel the need to point out that OP really can't use the name Anna for her future daughter if her daughter already has a half-sister named Anna. Imagine this with any other name. Imagine if OP's daughter was Chelsea and OP wanted to name her next daughter Stacy, but the husband names his next daughter Stacy. It would be absolutely weird for OP to name her next daughter Stacy as well, because it would be really confusing and inconvenient for poor Chelsea to have two sisters named Stacy, right? Same goes here. OP went way too far in her anger, as she herself admits, but she's right that they're stealing the name from her. She won't be able to name any future children Anna in good conscience, because that could lead to a lot of confusion and frustration for Elsa and both of her half-sisters if she did.
I mean, I have a sister named Allie and a sister-in-law named Allie. Their real names are Allison and Alexa, but they both prefer to go by Allie. Is this confusing af? Yes. Should we force them to go by their full names? No. Also, I have 2 cousins that are brothers and both married women named Amelia. Granted, both of these situations were the end result of a new marriage and could not have been foreseen when their names were given at birth, but I think ultimately, the end result is the same.
I was the oldest child for both my mom and my bio dad. He ended up having another kid a couple years later and literally gave her the same name. We even have the same spelling variant! For awhile, we had the same last name, so our middle names were the only difference. I wasn't even raised with her (we met as adults), but I grew up knowing I had a sister with the same name as me, and that was weird enough. If we actually grew up together, that would have been super awkward. It's not even a matter of being confusing, but older siblings often feel like the younger ones take attention from them, and younger siblings feel in the shadow of the older ones. Having the same name could really mess with those feelings in a bad way.
I don't think it's a big deal. We have a lot of "Giuseppe" in my family, not to mention the TWO "Aunt Stella" and like four Maria's, and while it can get confusing it's not that big of a deal. If she likes the name, she should use it.
For the alcohol story, I actually had a similar situation happen when I was a kid. My best friend had a big birthday party at her dads farm when she turned 15, and for various reasons it was requested that no alcohol be brought or consumed at the party. There was fishing and bbq and games, plenty of other things to do. My mother’s boyfriend (an alcoholic) decided to sneak an ice chest of beer in, leaving it in the back of the truck & going disappearing to drink during the party. Because he got drunk before the party ended, and no one was supposed to have alcohol to begin with, we had to leave. I do agree that OP has the right to determine whether or not people drink in her home (though I also agree that she’s pretty judgmental about it). But, as in my story above, there are a lot of reasons not to want people drinking when they’re on your property. Things get broken, people get hurt (my dad, famously, breaking his foot during a drunken Christmas Eve wrestling match with his brother), drunk/buzzed driving happens, and you might just plain not want to deal with certain people when they’re drinking. My point is that even though OP is kind of an asshole in her presentation of WHY she doesn’t want alcohol in her home, and also not accepting that because of it nobody wants to go to her house, if it’s reasonable for a 15 year old’s birthday party (and I personally think it was cause there were a lot of things the family could have ended up liable for including underaged teen drinking), then it’s also reasonable here. Even if, again, it sounds like OP was a judgmental butthead about it. For Elsa/Anna, all I have to say is in regards to naming your child something just to spite your ex… lol don’t count it out. I knew a guy once upon a time who had two kids with two women and the younger child was spitefully named the exact same thing as the older one. Both of them juniors, named after dad. 😅
Yeah... okay so my 15th birthday party was at our house and we had no parents around. We were home alone. I had clearly stated that no alcohol was allowed. Despite of this, some of my classmates brought alcohol and drank it. One of them got too drunk to cover it and was scared to tell me, so he drove his moped home... he crashed. Thankfully he "only" broke an arm... but my cousin died 4 years earlier when she drove drunk (which this boy knew). the guilt and the trauma I had to work through after this was just horrible. Like why? Why drive home drunk from a party at all? Especially knowing what happened to my cousin! Like what the f*ck. I might be harsh, but I haven't forgiven him, and that's 3 and a half years ago.
@@SammyLammy1D A 15th birthday party is different already because not wanting underage drinking at your house is perfectly reasonable. Teens also usually do not know their limits that well and particularly with no parents home, its perfectly right not to want this. If parents tell their underage child not to drink, that is responsible parenting. Telling your in-laws quickly comes off as entitlement, though.
To be completely honest the way the last OP talks gives me HUGE red flags. The kind of person who'd call a divorce lawyer over something like that, and who'd threaten to sabotage the children's relationship, is NOT someone I'd trust to give a remotely truthful representation of the issue. Just the way she describes/justifies her descent into rage is spooky. It's exactly the way every abuser I've known has described their behaviour. I do think there may be weird pettiness involved on the new wife's part but it could also have been totally innocent fun. In that case it's on the ex-husband to have told new wife it's something OP takes seriously, but... Let's just say if I was the ex husband I sure as hell wouldn't want to appease OP either. Anyone who even has the THOUGHT that threatening to make THEIR OWN CHILD'S LIFE harder to spite their ex is an OK thing to do is an asshole full stop. If that's how she reacts to anger I feel bad for Elsa.
Good point on this one about how unreliable the narrator may be…. On the surface, I understand why she might be upset (especially if she’s not over her ex), but to even SAY she’s going to sabotage the relationship between the two children even if she wouldn’t do this IRL is definitely a huge red flag.
Tbh, all that tells me is that it isn't just about the name. She sounds panicked. You don't panick over a name. Whether the ex and his new wife intended it or not (which, they definitely could have. Sorry Shaaba but some people absolutely do name their kids out of spite), they chose a name they knew was significant to OP with a justification that while sweet on surface, that they want the two girls to just be sisters and close rather than making differences between them, also others OP from this new family unit. It places her child in their family, not the other way around, and if there are any concerns about custody (which there always are, even if they're not immediate) or getting the daughter to pick sides in the divorce then it could have OP panicking that they intend to have their little family unit with HER daughter and leave her behind. That would explain - though obviously not justify - the response of "if you try to do this, I will sabotage their sister relationship" as less of a spiteful reaction to them 'stealing' the name to strengthen that bond, and more as a "I will not allow you to steal my family". Especially if OP and her ex ever explicitly talked about having another daughter called Anna before they split, as that could add extra 'replacing OP as wife and mother' vibes. She literally called her *divorce* lawyer. That to me screams fear over losing the daugher she already has, not sulking over a hypothetical future daughter.
@@katharineeavan9705As a divorced mom, I sympathize with some of her feelings-but not her assumptions and behavior. Yes, her feelings about the divorce and custody are likely fueling some intense feelings. Ideally, she might have unpacked some things with a supportive friend or therapist before going nuclear on everyone. But when feelings run high, people often act without thinking clearly. It’s understandable, but some apologies are in order here. One part that bugged me was her assumption that the new wife can’t possibly like Frozen as much as she does. That’s incredibly self-centered. LOTS of people love the film and feel like it struck a deep emotional chord. Also, it’s not unusual for someone to keep dating or marrying the same type. Possibly, OOP and new wife have more in common than she realizes. Unless the new wife has a history of pettiness, I’m inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.
@@catsmom129 Yeah, and I mean, for the whole “taking her child into their family thing”….. guys…. it’s not one or the other. She can be part of both families. After all, one has her father and one has her mother. Both have one of her parents. It would be one thing if the new wife was trying to completely steal the daughter away, but I don’t get that impression. She seems to just want to join the families and involve the daughter as part of this family AS WELL, not necessarily instead. And it also sounds like they didn’t even decide for certain they’re going to do it yet, just had the idea. Family is more complex than “you’re in this parent’s new family or you’re in that parent’s new family”. I mean… heck… when you get married you’re also sorta joining families but that doesn’t mean you stop being in your existing family. You don’t just get a choice of your parents or the in-laws for the rest of your life when you sign that marriage certificate! There’s a lot to family!
As some one who is a recoving alcoholic I wouldn't want it in my house, but I don't mind if I go somewhere else and they have it. It's more of a case of my house is a safe zone from Alcohol. And if I'm struggling, I need that space. Most of the people are really accepting of that. It's a boundary for my safety.
exactly! if you get upset or triggered by alcohol consumption at someone else's house, you can go home. if you get upset or triggered by alcohol consumption at your own house, there's no way to remove yourself from the situation. this is one of those situations where "my house, my rules" should 100% apply
I think the most appropriate time to ban alcohol is at the person's own birthday party. I would feel uncomfortable if my friends were drinking at my party
I saw the alcohol story on another video, and I stand by what I said then: OP is absolutely within her rights to not want alcohol in her home, and that is a boundary that people should respect. OP is also incredibly judgemental. Based on the available info, it seems like it's OP's turn to host her extended family's Christmas like they take turns within the family, and I think it's rude for her family to refuse to go to her house because she won't allow alcohol. We don't drink in my family and if we hosted a party, we wouldn't have alcohol there, and I would be really upset and surprised if the people we invited refused to come because we wouldn't be serving alcohol. Also, if I were going to someone's house for dinner and that person was vegetarian/vegan, I wouldn't ask to bring meat just because I want to eat meat. Unless there was an allergy or a dietary issue, I would suck it up and eat what was served. I might swing by McD's on the way home, but that's a separate issue. Ultimately, I agree that everyone in the story sucks. OP sucks for her judgemental attitude. SIL sucks for attempting to sabotage an event OP has (presumably) already put considerable effort into planning. Husband sucks for not backing up his wife's boundary about alcohol. And the family sucks for refusing to spend a major holiday with a member of their family because she has asked them not to drink for a few hours. If OP was asking for alcohol to be eliminated from ALL family events she attended, that would be out of line, but not wanting it in her house is acceptable.
For the alcohol one, did no one suggest that the main event should still be at OP's without alcohol (since it's her turn to host!), but they could have an afterparty at the hijacker's house? Or do their Christmas parties usually run too late to allow for an afterparty? Hell, OP's hub could even send them off with the ingredients for that festive margarita someone wanted to try (showing support for his wife's no drinking rules but also acceptance that ), there's so many more cooperative ways this could have been handled with a little communication. ESH for sure.
As an adult child of alcohol and dysfunction I think it’s more than reasonable to control substance use at your own home. I actually do drink so maybe it’s a bit more nuanced for me, but if I had witnessed triggering behavior during a party I may have to ask a guest to leave (or at least politely suggest they have some water). My problem is the OP’s language, but regression is often a trauma response so I can understand. There are resources and support groups for adult children of alcoholics, so please don’t lose hope. ❤ As for the vegetarian analogy, I find that slightly sensitive. As a lifelong vegetarian there is no meat allowed in my home unless it’s needed for medical reasons (blood sugar, etc). Meat goes against my ethical and some of my religious beliefs and I don’t feel bad not warning people that the food is going to be veggie, though in fairness anyone who knows me can guess. I’ve never had a friend or loved one complain about my cooking or not come to dinner because of my values. It hurts my feelings a little to say that I could be harming someone by giving them vegetables as if my food is unhealthy or sub par. I do think smoking is a better analogy than vegetarian food, which really does aim not to hurt anyone
@OdinsSage I have the same policy, but haven't really had to enforce it as of yet. That said, even though I'm veggie, I don't complain when I go over to someone else's house and find they've prepared meat for dinner. It's not a religious decision or ethical one, but rather an environmental decision for me, though, so maybe I'm the odd one out here. But I would say it would be acceptable to partake only of the veggie/vegan dishes and maybe bring your own food in that case, especially since not having something like eggs or meat for a long time can make someone sensitive to it so they'll get sick upon eating it again.
I think with the alcohol another thing to consider is past trauma regarding op’s dad being an alcoholic. Not saying that they aren’t the a**hole but just another thing to think about and another layer to the situation
Okay, but why didn't she said it then? Like, she brought it in the first paragraph, but after that it's just "I'm better than you because I don't drink these childish beverage, you should be able to have fun without it", and yeah, it doesn't rub well on people ^^'
@@krankarvolund7771 she most definitely went about it in a crappy way but it’s entirely possible the effects of her dad’s alcoholism impact her on a subconscious level, leading her to look down on/be uncomfortable around people that do drink and equating them all with her dad. Not necessarily saying she is right or correct in that assumption but it could be a thought pattern that is present due to past trauma.
I think the way she worded it was rude, about people needing to grow up. BUT as a recovering alcoholic 20+ years sober I don’t mind being around others who are drinking wether in public or in their home (if I can bring my own vehicle to leave if I become uncomfortable) however if I am hosting something then alcohol is not involved. Alcohol doesn’t have a place in my home. Period. My wedding was alcohol free, because it’s not a necessity and because I have no desire to pay for someone else to get drunk lol, also I couldn’t have afforded it back then anyway.
@@dan_the_sunshine_man totally makes sense, i thought of unconscious bias too. like you said, though, it still sounds incredibly off-putting when someone keeps saying other's are "childish" for drinking
@@dan_the_sunshine_man Maybe, but I can't be everyone's therapist, if you have subconscious trauma, go talk to a therapist, meanwhile I'll judge you for your actions ^^'
So, I have grown up with an alcoholic as a parent. As a result I have a lot of trauma related to alcohol and I can get really upset when I see other people being drunk because I relive those parts of my childhood. If I hosted something, I wanted to ban alcohol, but was always forced to allow alcohol to be considerate of others. However, that made me inconsiderate of myself. Now that I've worked through the trauma, I do sometimes drink alcohol myself (though I have very strict rules about it) and also serve alcohol when I host something. However, considering that there is probably some trauma involved in the alcohol story, I don't think the OP is the asshole and that we shouldn't judge her by her use of language
Nah OP is being an asshole and using trauma to excuse this. Let's say OP has trauma around dogs and isn't comfortable having dogs in her house, that's fine, what's not fine is trash talking everyone for having dogs and getting mad that another family member is having an event where dogs are allowed, especially after OP trashed talked the whole family.
@@GraveyardMaiden Ehm.... I honestly disagree and please never say that someone is using trauma. The other Christmas party was only organized because OP wanted to make the Christmas party an alcohol free event and this sister reacted on that by inviting everybody to the other Christmas party that she would host instead. That's a pretty shitty move. Furthermore, I don't know if you know what it's like to have trauma/ PTSD. It can cause stress, panic attacks, reliving traumatic events. Sure, her wording sounds judgmental and I wouldn't use her wording, but she is also very young which may play a role in her choice of words. Living with trauma related to alcohol is horrible. I'm still working through mine and it's taking me so long because you cannot blame someone or something. Alcoholism is a mental illness mostly triggered by a traumatic event. If you're a child of someone dealing with substance abuse, you have to deal with a lot of stuff you're too young for, I needed to raise my brothers, walk the dog, cook dinner and it was always tense. To this day (I'm 30 now) I cannot have a relationship with my parents because they're still struggling with alcoholism and that's not a healthy environment for me. So, yes she could have chosen different words, but since she was supposed to host Christmas dinner, it was up to her whether she allowed alcohol or not. Because she didn't allow alcohol someone else in her family decided to host Christmas dinner behind her back. If we use your comparison: she was supposed to host an event and she didn't allow dogs. Because she didn't allow dogs, someone else in her family decided to host the event where dogs are allowed, but did it behind her back. Does this sounds like a fair reaction to OP?
@@GraveyardMaiden I rewatched this part again and OP never mentions that it is trauma related. People in the comments who have similar experiences as OP have used the word trauma.
@@wheelylazylaris I get where you're coming from with not being comfortable with saying people are "using their trauma", given it makes trauma be invalidated, but what you also have to keep in mind there are people who use trauma as an excuse to bully, manipulate and abuse people. Though in this case OP never stated she had trauma, people using trauma to excuse her down right rude behavior is not ok
As a child of divorced parents that got messy, I'm really torn. My stepmother at first seemed super welcoming of both me and my sister, slowly became clear she expected us to "choose" her over our mum. As soon as one of us showed we weren't going to abandon my mum, first my sister aged 12 then me aged 17, she quickly cut us off completely and made my dad choose between his "old family and new family"; we now only see out dad once a year and we haven't seen our half sister in 10 years (we're waiting until she's 16 so as to not rock the boat). So my view of the stepmum purposely choosing that name goes more towards wanting the mum to be out of the family, but I fully understand I'm very bias and drawing from my own family drama. On the other hand it is not her baby so she cannot dictate the name of any baby that is not her own. Calling her lawyer and threatening to sabotage the child's relationship with the baby is not in any way ok. So even though I see, again from my own bias, why the mum is hurt and feeling threatened by the name, ultimately she has to suck it up, apologise and be the bigger person. Again from my experience, my mum could have defamed my step mum and dad as they were having an affair behind her back for years and really screwed her over financially, but she was the bigger person and refused to spoil our relationship with our dad. And she's the one who sees us every week now
The name one is honestly pretty weird. It's feels like the new wife is trying to replace her or something, idk if it is as wholesome as the new wife made it out to be. It's like someone buying a house that you wanted to buy, or starting to flirt with someone you like. There is a clear breach there for me
There are so many additional questions I have with this one. Most important, does Elsa have an opinion about it? Is she close with Dad and step mom? is she super excited about getting a baby sister? I'm assuming she's been watching frozen since she was born maybe she just automatically assumed her baby sister would be named Anna? Maybe she even said something to that effect when she was at dad's house? I think this is the most important question here. As for step mom.. I'm of two minds about it. It's almost like watching someone steal your dreams. Even if op is (ultimately) glad about the divorce (as in no longer emotionally invested in the ex) there is a lot of pain in looking back on the future you envisioned together and laying those dreams to rest, having someone new pick up those dreams and watch your previous partner go along happily with them is salt in the wound. Ex could have easily deflected with a "idk honey, frozen was a really big deal for OP and I don't know that it's something I want to replicate in our relationship" but he didn't (I'm assuming he knows that this will be hurtful to op and kinda seems like he wanted a reason to get her mad.. 🤷)
I definitely think it can be a questionable situation, but ultimately the person impacted the most by all this squabbling (who is currently born that is) is little Elsa. I’d want to get her perspective on this if she’s old enough to provide it - if she’s excited for her sister and is happy to have a little sister named Anna. If she likes her step mom, is safe and comfortable with her birth dad, and feels like they’re enough a part of their life to make it worth while. This should be asked by both parties mind you, not just the mother who’s pissed off. The kids are just never taken into consideration for a lot of this. Even with my own parents, who had a mostly amicable divorce, there was a lot of crap thrown when my now stepmom got pregnant. And she ended up having a little girl on my birthday. I kept hearing sass and shade on all sides for weeks, with me getting shoehorned into the middle of it all, before someone actually personally asked me, “what do you think about this?” It took that long to ask for my thoughts, and I was perfectly fine with it. Even with all the sass I had, as a teenager always does, that sweet little baby was not a part of that sass in the slightest. It was almost offensive that anyone thought it would be, or that anyone was mad that a literal child was born on a specific day. And 11 years later, with as jaded and anxious a person as I tend to be, my birthday gives me a shit ton of joy because I get to celebrate it with my little sister. I’ve made her birthday cake since she was three, I even take off work so I can celebrate with her, and I’ve loved every minute of it.
Honestly it was an ESH judgement for me, but yeh it's very creepy to me that dad are step mom are wanting matching names when neither of the choose daughter's name to begin with. Like it feels so much like they're trying to spite OP or force a relationship on daughter
The first one the only one NTA is the OP. Her partner and his parents expect everything to be convenient for them at OP's expense. For the second one it won't kill those guests to go without drinking for one night for one year. They can always get together afterwards for drinks at the sister's house. Two parties 🎉 everyone's happy.
with the third one I think it would be weird for the child if both her sisters were named anna and the op came up with the concept so it would kind of be stealing that name, especially because the stepmom could've chosen any other name
I've been thinking of banning alcohol from certain family gatherings at my house because my family will get ridiculously drunk. One year during 4th of July I didn't even provide alcohol and some of the guests found my own stash of whiskey in the freezer as well as brought their own beer. They drank a good bit of it and by the end of the day I was dealing with belligerent guests who were "just trying to have a good time". Any time I turned around they were trying to break something or start something with someone and occasionally fireworks would be involved. When they left I found beer cans stashed under my flowers in the flower bed and scattered throughout the yard. Only 2 people got drunk, but everyone else was handing them beers and watching them act like fools. They were also the only 2 alcoholics in our family at the party, so it was very irresponsible of the people providing the alcohol.
The alcohol one: I actually have a phobia of drunk people, so it would affect me. But I would also never host a party or whatever cause I'm not particularly social, so it would not be a problem for me.
I cannot imagine needing alcohol so much I would cancel Christmas and start my own separate party JUST to drink. A lot of comments here have already pointed out that OP has trauma with alcohol, and I can't believe her husband at the very least isn't respecting her, or at least trying to compromise. I do hate the way OP framed this, very judgey, but NTA. Husband is TA for not advocating for his wife and family, fr, a few hours without alcohol is that terrible an idea to them?! I think that would make OP double down on her opinion that alcohol consumption is childish, and give her justification for being so judgmental.
Exactly this. I can't believe how many people think it's completely reasonable to choose alcohol over family. If you care about someone, you'll choose to respect their rules, even if you don't particularly like them.
I think it's totally fine to not serve alcohol. But you could approach it in a kinder way. "I'm so excited that it's my turn to host this year. I love all of you and the quality time we enjoy on Christmas, and I want to try something a little different. I'm inviting everyone to enjoy an alcohol-free dinner with me. I know it's a little bit of a break from tradition, and I thank you all for giving it a chance." You could even compromise with something like "For those of you who want, there will be a cocktail hour at my sister's house afterward."
Personally I wasn't thinking about comparing it to smoking (perhaps because you can step outside and smoke and the effect on me would be smaller) but to having a vegiterian meal and asking people to respect that. I think because alcohol is more like part of things she would serve or you know would be enjoyed around the table? Idk. I just think that if she was vegeterian/vegan and was hosting xmas, she would have every right to be all "we're not eating meet this year, I'm hosting and that's how I'm doing it" and while her tone could be better, I wouldn't think of her as an asshole. She's not forcing her rules on anyone's lives. She's just asking to make it suit her better since she's the host. Especially since as a host she probably has way fewer ways of avoiding drunk company than she would if she was a guest. It's not like she could just leave early or whatever. And perhaps it is the child of an alcoholic speaking to me, but I honestly don't see how not drinking for one event would be too much to ask for. The OP clearly has some stuff to process, been there, but I don't think banning alcohol from one xmas dinner is such an unreasonable demand.
I got really uncomfortable when meat was brought up as a comparison to alcohol coming in, because I and my family keep kosher, and we will forbid meat at a dairy meal, especially non kosher meat…
as someone who enjoys alcohol (and who got vomity drunk on Christmas but i didn't realize the beers were 9%, still on me tho) if i was going to a Christmas party where no alcohol was allowed i wouldn't bitch about it, I'd just be glad someone cared enough to invite me 🤷
My family once did veggie Christmas with me and honestly, it meant more to me than any material gift ever could have. Because it was acknowledging not only my deepest values, but also the third party - the animal - that can't speak for themselves. Some things are not just about simple preference, but deep rooted values. The same with alcohol, especially if their father was an alcoholic. Yes, you can be compassionate, at least one day out of respect in their house. I mean, you probably wouldn't bring pig meat to a Muslim household just because "everyone's allowed to eat what they like". Values shouldn't only be respected when religion is involved 😅✌️
The drink one is tough. If her dad was an alcoholic, maybe she has some bad memories around Christmas and drink. She's very judgemental, she could have good reason. Maybe host a different event that isn't so linked to drinking?
Exactly. I don't understand why she thinks other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy whatever they want at Christmas just because her dad couldn't control himself around alcohol. It's not their problem. It was a silly choice to want to host a party so linked with alcohol then ban that very thing people enjoy. It's like hosting a BBQ then telling everyone they're not allowed to eat meat at it.
People who think Xmas is closely linked to drinking also think that about literally every other holiday. To them, drinking is inextricable from celebratig in general. Xmas is like a month long, they could easily have just done drinks at the SILs on Xmas eve or boxing day and had one sober meal
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 ...people do have vegetarian BBQs. It'd be weird to go to an explicitly vegetarian BBQ and bring meat. Just have your own BBQ another day. There's no limit on how many BBQs you can attend and not eating meat at just one of them for the sake of attending a friend's event where they are offering food won't hurt you
As the victim of an Evil Stepmother, I have to say that there are actually people out there who would deliberately steal someone's baby name for their own entertainment or a dominance move. If my mother had had a name set aside for an unborn child when my stepmother gave birth, and my stepmother had known about it, my little half sibling would be called that name, and it would absolutely be a deliberate evil act. Alternatively, if Evil Stepmother had known the names I have set aside for my future children, she would have "stolen" one of those. It's what she's like. In the end, she invented a weird pronunciation of a relatively normal name, and now greatly enjoys loudly correcting people and/or throwing public tantrums when people get it wrong.😅
I too was raised in an alcoholic family , both parents, I will never have drinking in my home . I have seen how much it can destroy people and the violence it can bring with it ,no if the party is in my home then my rules !
Definitely on the alcohol one, I’d argue more information is necessary. As someone who likes making cocktails (not much of a drinker, but I like playing around with it as an ingredient and trying new things), there are certainly some people I would gladly have over for a few drinks, and some where I would hide the contents of the liquor cabinet altogether, purely on the basis on how much they drink and how they handle themselves while drunk. One side of my family is very prone to alcoholism and that is a side I would not want getting sloshed and causing havoc in my house. Given the OP’s opinion toward alcohol in general and her verbiage, though, it seems less like the family causes havoc with alcohol, and more that she just has strong opinions about it in general, probably fueled by her experiences with her alcoholic father. Plus I still disagree with her ultimate decision - I would personally make it clear and apparent that it’d be a dry party if it’s at my house from the get go, and let them decide if they want to throw it elsewhere long before the conflict comes to a head. I wouldn’t force it because it’s not my place to do so.
People have every right to ban whatever they want from their homes. OP who banned alcohol is NTA it's the rest of the family for both not wanting to respect her and then creating a party behind her back.
I completely understand your positions on the second query, but I do disagree. I think that people are allowed to have a dry party if they like. I do drink alcohol, but I would certainly never complain about not being able to drink somewhere, and it's not necessary to have a good time. My parents have never drunk alcohol on Christmas, and I would never insist on drinking around them, as it would make them uncomfortable. There are many things that don't apply in this example, but I don't think alcohol is such an important thing to have. Same with your vegetarian example, I'm biased because I'm vegan, but it would deeply upset me if I was having people over for dinner, let folks know that I was making vegan food (I would take care to make things they liked and could eat) and people brought meat with them, I think that would be very disrespectful. I think with these you have to take it as a case-by-case thing. Since she (the Reddit user) said she had experience with alcoholism, it seems like she would be adversely affected by drunk people around her, and she's allowed to have that boundary.
I agree with that. I’d add, that to be honest if I was asking someone to not bring alcohol or meat and they insisted on doing so, I would probably mostly cut the person out of my life. Especially when it comes to such strong ethical and emotional decisions (and having usually talked to them about the topic before) i see it as hugely disrespectful and tbh I’m at a point in life where if people can’t respect me I don’t have time for that. Then again, not everyone has that choice.
I strongly agree with this comment! 👍 If she's hosting she can set that boundary 👍 and if people choose to not attend, that's okay too... They also have that choice. I do however think that the alternative party with alcohol hosted at the same time is an A-hole move from the SIL.
Agreed. The host gets to decide what kind of party they’re hosting. It would be profoundly disrespectful for a guest to insist on bringing a drug that caused the host childhood trauma.
@@merlyncharlesnieto I'm 100% with you. Every vegan I know has a vegan household, and you are not welcome there if you bring any kind of animal cruelty related product into the home. No one will die if they don't drink alcohol for a single day, unless of course they're actually a raging alcoholic.
Drinking one: NTA if people knew not to smoke/wear shoes in my house then not an issue, people would respect it. Harm here is trauma to op from her father's alcoholism. Fyi I am veggie and provide choice and we do drink, but if I said no, my family would respect that and not arrange another effing party behind my back!
I would never accept people bringing alcohol or meat into my home, if that’s one of my boundaries. But then, people who can’t deal with that are not part of my friend circle in the first place.
I wonder if you'd feel the same if people said you're not allowed in their home if you ever bring non-alcoholic, non-meat food into their space. I bet you'd think they were a controlling, judgemtnal prick.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 No. I wouldn't. But I don't think I'd try to be friends with people who chose to only survive on animals and alcohol. That's the point. And I also wouldn't be friends with people who are so entitled that they think it's ok to force whatever on me. If that's the kind of people you like to surround yourself with - then go on. You do you. There's no reason we have to agree on this.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 "oh you brought orange juice and a cake to my house? Well, OJ doesn't have alcohol and cake doesn't have meat, so f+ck off" What a bizarre take lol
Personally I find it sad that some people think they can't have a good time whilst sober (coming from someone who doesn't drink). My family is unfortunately a part of the category of people who sometimes believe that no grog = no fun. Not always, but sometimes.
First one, definitely the husband is the AH. Also, surely they could have an agreement like you explain. If his parents expect her to make them a special breakfast then they are also the AH. It's family, why can't people just treat each other with respect? There are 2 options, 1. Husband makes them breakfast and cleans up. 2. They understand it is just to meet and there wont be a breakfast. But I'm guessing he and his parents expect her to do everything Second one, saw that elsewhere too. Can't believe reddit voted her the AH there. No. The SIL is the AH big time and a big baby. Husband is too. But I disagree about the OP even if she was judgemental about it. Her experience with an alcoholic father obviously causes a lot of painful memories so I do not see it as the same as vegetarian food and meat
Had notice the OP on the second one mentioned they drink quite a bit in going through bottles of wine and alcohol. In this case I would feel the same as the OP. It is clear that the family isn't just chilling with a couple of drinks for the holiday. No kidding what drama is released or created because of it. If the family really needed an alcohol blitz, they could the day before or after.
I don't drink and I have seen how bad alcoholism can be. There is a part of me that thinks its odd that people are bothered by a party with no alcohol. That said OP comes across so judgemental that she loses whatever ground she might have had.
Shaaba, I think you missed the key line in #2: "I hate drinking[,] I have never drank[,] my father was an alcoholic". Sure, their view of drinking as childish is... weird. (Maybe they meant the kind of drunk-off-your-ass drinking that college kids do?) I wish we had more information, and I wish OP were less judgmental and more upfront about their rules for hosting Christmas, but at the end of the day they have every right to want their home to remain alcohol-free.
For the meat eating, many people fail to consider that (ethical) vegans don't refrain from eating meat because they don't like it or something, but because they are morally against it. In that context it would be pretty rude for guests to bring meat. No one is bringing meat into my house and preparing it my kitchen, I'm sorry but you can eat meat any other time of the year, and my plant-based cooking is good enough to satisfy any meat-eater that doesn't have their head stuck up their ass lol. So yeah point being, I didn't like that comparison much :P
As a child of an alcoholic father too, I think OP has every right to ban alcohol from their home. I get triggered (with childhood trauma events) while around intoxicated people, there's a good chance OP does too. I don't think people who don't/didn't have addicts as caregivers will ever truly understand how "innocent drinking" isn't innocent to those with trauma. (Tho I do think OP went about explaining the ban in an immature/judgemental way. They weren't a CAPITAL ass hole but they were a little bit of one.)
Oooo the alcohol one is the first disagreement I've had with Shaba. I drink alcohol, but if I wanted to host a drug free event then people either come and stay sober, or don't come at all. People being drunk will still change the atmosphere, so it will effect me. OP might have gotten more love with a better attitude, but I definitely think she’s got the rights to decide if drugs aren't allowed on her event, that should be respected. If people can't stay a day without drugs (especially Christmas that has given a lot of children trauma due to alcohol) then they can decline the invitation, but they can drink literally every other day of the year so it sounds kinda like an addiction problem.
I struggle with the alcohol one, particularly if someone either is a recovering alcoholic or had direct alcoholic relatives, I can totally understand why they'd not want it in the house. Was that made clear earlier on, unclear, so yeah, op is a bit of an ah. However, the sister who set up something at the same date/time is also bit of an ah, set it for a different time or day before/after op's, so that family have the option to partake in one or both.
The frozen name one is so tricky, I agree that OP completely went the wrong way with it. however I would say I think OP should try talking to the couple again in a reasonable manner to try and sort this out. Names can be very important to people and here's my thoughts. If these two children from different mums are having names to 'force' them to be sisters, that could end up really bad. What if something happens between these two sides of the family and the sisters are torn apart, imagine how much messier that would be if they are NAMED after two characters who reconciled....and then IRL these two sisters don't. Also it is kind of weird to me that this new mum is like, "if I name my kid Anna I'm appealing to OP", that seems a little off. I would encourage OP to say something like "I'm sorry for how I acted, I let my emotions get the better of me. But these names mean a lot to me so could you consider naming your child something else?" I think that's a fair thing to at least request if it means so much to OP (The couple can refuse of course). OP could also say something like "What if you considered names similar to Anna but aren't exactly that?" Annabeth, Annabelle, Anny, that kind of thing. That would still capture some of what the new wife is looking for to connect the kids, but I think it also respects OPs desire to have the name Anna free to use if she really wants to. Remember that Ex wife is in a difficut situation where a new wife has essentially taken her place in husband's life. That is always going to be difficult so I think that makes me sympathetic to her. Also also, I feel with blended families it's SO important to let the kids have distinct identities. Thats kinda why this gives me the ick, because New Wife does not seem to be sensitive to OP's connection to these names. OP could have easily been thinking this for many years and that she'll always have the option to name two kids Elsa and Anna, and it could be quite confronting to suddenly have someone directly in the family take that future name you planned away.
I stayed in an AirBnB a few years back, they were veggie & asked me not to cook meat or eat meat in their house. Why tf would I be like well I'm free to do what I want so I will bring meat in here.. that's so disrespectful! I'm in their house?!?! Just because I think it wouldn't affect them doesn't mean they don't think it will affect them & they think it would so I respect that
i started avoiding the AITA reddit a long time ago because it stressed me out but your videos are pretty chill and soothing so i was binging them today, and im going to add a comment even though this is an old video hearing the alcohol one, reading the comments below and hearing you talk about it, really shocked me. i grew up without basically anyone drinking; my mom was an alcoholic long ago and i dont remember, her dad died of alcoholism, my aunt hadd issues; a lot of stuff, and my dad didnt drink in my prescence. the idea that alcohol is an "ingrained" "important" or "festive" thing to do is straight up bizarre to me. like, i get that she was a little mean calling them childish but i guess im the only one who sort of agrees with the sentiment, if not the meaning. I really dont think drinking is comparable to being a vegetarian/vegan. even when people arent like, smashing tables / blackout drunk, being the only sober person in a room full of tipsy people can be uncomfortable and alienating. it does change peoples behavior and change their interactions with you. if im socializing with someone who's a little drunk, i dont know if theyre laughing at a joke because they think its funny or if they're just drunk. i have social anxiety which worsens this, yeah, and not every sober person has these issues but yeah. it feels like everyone is pretending that drinking either does nothing or makes you blackout, but like... it does in fact change peoples behavior beyond that. i do think she was too judgy but.... i think people are underselling how alcohol actually changes people behavior. i wonder if theres also some cultural difference here, no offense to the UK but ive heard from other americans that drinking and hangovers are treated much more casually over there? like, even people who drank moderately in the US going over there and being surprised at how different things were.
I kind of agree with the op for the alcohol one. They do sound really judgy, and I can understand the rest of the family being a little annoyed or bummed out about a dry Christmas, however it does feel a little childish to boycote the event because of no alcohol. I get the feeling that there is more to avoiding the dinner than just no alcohol
I think it's a little weird to tell OP she can name her someday daughter Anna as well, since what would that be like for Elsa? She'd have two half sisters named Anna. Confusing much?
Right? Also, even if there's only one sibling, she most definitely should not be named Anna unless you want both of these children to be ridiculed for the rest of their lives.
@@carr0760 They're pretty names though and I think the people who would ridicule them would find another reason to if they had different names. Bullies will be bullies no matter what so people should name their kids whatever they want.
@@ohood1788 which is precisely why parents should consider that and not make it even easier for them. Also, Anna's name will always be mispronounced if she's in Canada or the US (which is the majority of people who post on AITA). It won't be read like the way they say it in the movie.
@@ohood1788 yes, but I'm talking about reading it on an attendance sheet or an email without any other context. She would be living her life as an individual, not always in tandem with her sister.
For the name one; I's possible that the ex-husband's wife has another reason for choosing that name, but I don't think it's likely. OP hasn't said anything negative about her, so I'm assuming that this is the only (major) thing she's done that OP didn't like. I do think it's a bit strange that the husband decided to go along with it even before talking to OP though. OP said that although they aren't best friends, they still stay in touch so I would think that he'd bring up how personal that name was to OP. Also, if the wife really wants the daughters to be sisters she should also consider talking to the OP, the mother of her child's older sister, about the name as well. So far it seems like the ex is the only one talking with OP. Of course, I don't think OP is right, in the end it's their child's name not OP's.
For the Anna/Elsa one, I agree that it's sweet that the new girlfriend thought of that. My (half) sister and I have rhyming names and there was never any drama around that lol. However, I disagree that OP should just name her future child Anna too. Imagine being a kid with two sisters who have the same name! I'm a firm believer that there's no reason half siblings shouldn't be as close as full siblings, so having two half siblings with the same name might create an odd disconnect in the family (like having to clarify which parent's Anna it is whenever they're talking about one).
for the alcohol one, i don’t think people are understanding of the fact that op had an alcoholic father and alcohol could be a trigger for them. they likely had to be around alcohol (esp at christmas) for YEARSSSS and now that they get to host they might wanna make themselves comfy in a way that doesn’t disrupt anyone else that strongly. yeah it may be more fun w alcohol, but you can still have fun whilst accommodating the fact that alcohol could be touchy for op.
For the child naming, I also thought it was sweet. Coparenting is hard, I am honestly in disbelief that the new woman was so on board their daughters being close sisters like in the movie. It's a wonderful sentiment that should be celebrated. People gatekeep baby names so much it's ridiculous. They should have involved the OP in their decision though, it might have made her less reactive.
@@carr0760 for sure, I'm not saying I think cutesy matching names are sweet. I don't know why anyone does that to their kids. That wasn't the point of the video though.
IDK, lots of steparents want to "win" over the bio parent/partner's ex and will go to extreme lengths to do so. It could be less about the two girls' relationship and more about stepmum wanting OP's daughter to choose the family unit with the matching sister in it, or even just as a display of how she's the one that gave hubby the complete set and now OP never can. But while this could have been meant as a genuinely sweet gesture, I can't help but feel that if it was they'd back down rather use a name that isn't all that meaningful to them knowing it would cause conflict in their stepdaughter's family situation, regardless of whether the conflict was justified.
I feel like it would be kinda weird for op to have a child names Anna after her ex named his daughter Anna. It would be weird because then Elsa would have two siblings with the same name, there's also a chance the ex could get mad at her and accuse her of copying him by naming her child the same thing.
If you are hosting Christmas, you are allowed to say no booze. If it’s her turn to host, the family should politely deal with it for one year. They can leave when they want. The sister in law hosting an alternative party is so beyond rude. Veganism and drinking are not at the same level of personal choice. Alcohol is mind altering and changes behavior, eating vegan doesn’t.
RE OP hosting an alcohol free party: Agree on the smoking. I am a smoker, I smoke in my house, but I absolutely won’t smoke in someone else’s house or near them (of even in my house when they come over and they have a big problem with it). The alcohol issue: sounds to me like OP is unaware of her trauma from growing up around alcohol abuse. She is looking down on ALL people who drink and calls it childish, which is an odd take. I also grew up around alcohol abuse and it has made me very critical of drinking behaviour, and I KNOW that I can be irrationally judgemental sometimes. But the amount of times people have tried to force drinks on me after telling them time and time again that I don’t want it is absolutely ridiculous. This is also why I think the social acceptance of alchohol is far bigger than of smoking. I do drink alcohol sometimes, usually 1 or 2 drinks in my own house on the weekend. I hate the feeling of being even slightly intoxicated and I have a low tolerance. Being around people who drink a lot stresses me out, especially when I don’t know how they behave when drunk. It seems to me OP is trying to justify her anxiety around drinkers by harsh judgement. Lots of people can drink responsibly and just enjoy and have fun. The way she explains it, the people who were supposed to come over, many might cross a line that she’s not comfortable with, and she has experienced stress/anxiety/fear while being around those people. I can relate to this 100%. But she needs to become aware of her issue and realize her judgement is shortsighted and her expectations are unrealistic. And there are many ways around this: 1. I have eliminated problematic drinkers from my life where possible 2. I always celebtrate my birthday on a morning with coffee and cake 3. I rarely host, when I’m a guest I can easily leave when I feel uneasy 4. I don’t do work parties 5. when i do host, it’s often brunch (either way my house it too small for large dinners) 6. buy limited amounts of alcohol to the number of guests so they can’t go wild - bonus, they leave early :P
As a pescatarian who’s also autistic I wouldn’t be happy with people brining meat to my house. Specifically if it’s raw and they for some reason expected to cook it in my house for whatever reason (Dont know who would but you never know) then I’d probably just try to sent them home because I don’t want the bacteria of said meat in my fridge or cooking equipment. Not to mention the smell, I wouldn’t be able to stand it it would give me a social overload. If they bring it cooked I don’t care. But if its raw for whatever reason then no I’m not comfortable with that
I don’t drink bc I can’t medically, I always feel left out and wish I could just hang around my family while they are sober. Especially when every big gathering involves alcohol it becomes isolating.
Not the a****** for the alcohol There's every right to say no alcohol I have the same rule at my house I have the same roll from my wedding if you can't go one day without alcohol you can't come
I think the perspective that's worth considering on the alcohol issue is would your verdict be different if OPs *reasons* for not drinking were different. Like, I think most people would think it was weird and rude if you insisted on taking alcohol to Eid celebrations at a Muslim person's house, or Easter at a Methodist person's house. We would accept no alcohol as being a hard limit for religious reasons, why should non-religious moral reasons be any different? Vegetarianism is an interesting parallel, because while I don't think "Is it okay if I bring a meat dish" is an unreasonable request, "No, this is a vegetarian household" is a perfectly reasonable response. Again, you wouldn't take a beef curry to a Vaisaiki celebration, and just because a decision isn't religious, doesn't mean it isn't moral. Obviously it would be different if you were going to someone else's house. A vegetarian taking umbridge at meat being served in an omnivores house is being a prat, but the omnivore demanding meat in a vegetarian home is being just as much of a prat. I also think it's worth considering how much of people's responses on that one are driven by the cultural ideas we have around alcohol in most english-speaking countries. I am teetotal for medical reasons, and it's been eye-opening to see how genuinely weird and sometimes even unpleasant people are about the idea of someone not drinking. It's so ingrained in our culture that people will demand you have a 'valid' reason to not drink (the only valid reasons, assuming you're not talking to the worst kind of bigot, seem to be religious or a very specific list of medical conditions, it being a free choice, or even medical reasons deemed 'minor' are most definitely not acceptable to an awful lot of people). Although vegitarianism is a pretty good comparison in a lot of ways, I really don't think OP would have got the same pushback if that was the issue at hand, but because alcohol is a big part of our culture, people are blindsided by the idea of non-drinkers and tend to get defensive and invalidate that choice.
About the vegan example in the first story: Both me and my partner are vegan and when we are hosting I expect (and inform) the guest to not bring animal products. As I am ethically vegan animal products are for me a symbol of harm and suffering and I really, really (!) don't want it in my house. In my view it is more similar to the racist example, as I don't want to witness eating products of harm in the safety of my home, especially as I don't have a choice anywhere else. After all, veganism is a moral stand not just a diet preference 😉
Tell the first husband that sure, HE can do breakfast, since HE made that commitment. HE can clean the house after the kids open presents, HE can make breakfast and clean up afterwards. You agreed to lunch, and I'm assuming already will be doing all the work associated, so he can take care of his own commitment. If he's not interested in that? Then it's HIS commitment to cancel.
3:20 - I feel if I was the grandparent here, who last minute decided "yes I want to see my grandkids before we leave on our trip", then I'd, IDK, offer to bring over some muffins or cinnamon rolls and just hang out casually (maybe even playing with the kids while mum and dad prep lunch). But if that was the offer, it doesn't sound like the husband communicated it well!
@18:05 Actually yes, someone would. You got to remember even if you would never, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. There are toxic people out there who would name their child something just to spite someone. Hell there are people out there that will get pregnant just to spite someone, they don't even want the kid, they just want to shove it in someone else's face. Sad but hard facts...
With the alcohol thing, I can understand both sides. On the one hand, i don't think going the day without drinking is a big deal at all, for me it's not a massive part of christmas day itself anyway. But also, if you set a rule like that, people are also allowed to decide they don't want to go, and it's christmas, so they'll obviously do something else instead. They're literally following your rule "If you come, you can't drink", so they're not coming.
I agree that the choice is 'come and don't drink or don't come', if they chose not to come then they shouldn't have decided to have their own party and disrespectfully invite OP Giving me serious Bender vibes - "I'm going to have my own party, with blackjack and hookers!"
@@UvThe1st exactly. If the sister didn't throw her own party, then they wouldn't have had the choice to go somewhere else. If you don't want to go to the party you've been invited to, you simply stay home. You don't throw a competing party and invite all of the same people.
They are surely allowed to not attend. But they are assholes if they don't. To reject someone at Christmas because they don't want you to drink while at their home is just beyond childish, showing she was right all along. It's not even like you have to spend an entire 24 hour period dry!
I get your point of letting people bring meat if they want to and if it's a barbecue situation I'd be with you. But if I'm cooking for people and they just assume my food won't satisfy them in one way or another so they bring meat to my house even though I am providing a whole meal I think that's a little weird and also somewhat rude. If I'm hosting and everyone is providing something or we're cooking together it would also be fine like with the barbecue. But adding meat to a veggie meal someone cooked just for the sake of having meat, I would not be very pleased with that :D
that last story did not go how I expected, I thought she'd be upset because Elsa is a nice name on its own but with a sister named Anna its pretty clearly a reference to frozen (eg my sister is called Mary so when my mum was pregnant with my brother she shut down the name Joseph immediately)
I absolutely have relatives I wouldn't let drink in my home. It isn't about the alcohol but the behavior. We have had dozens of family holidays without alcohol with a large family - because I was forced to tolerate drunken asshole family members for holidays when I was a child - but my kids don't have to. No one ever called me a $lut at 15 because they ate some meat
I'm gonna have to go with not the a****** most specifically because this is after a long parade of a****** moves of dragging her to events. Where people drink heavily. There are two uber a******* in this scenario and one is the husband and the other is the sister in law who went behind op's back instead of having a discussion
My father is an alcoholic who quit 6 years ago. In respect to him we never have alcohol at home and do not offer alcohol when we host parties. The issue has never occured, but we'd probably not be too happy if others would come to us with alcohol either, but we definitely wouldn't be super bitchy about it. I think most people understand and are automatically respectful. But when other family members host, there's usually always alcohol involved, at least wine or champagne or something. It's their decision, so we're fine with it. I think a little respect and consideration from and for everyone in our family is all we need for everything to work fine. As for the naming, I'm always careful naming after specific fandoms etc. because you never know what might come up, completely destroying the positive memories. It would be a shame then to be attached to that negative name. If it's just a name with no intentional connection, even if it happens to be identical with a problematic person or something, it's not the same in my opinion. Idk. In the end that's just my stance. OP can of course do as pleased but yeah, that threat is rather concerning.
I agree the op in the Alcohol one is a little judgey, but if they don't want Alcohol in their house that's a rule that others should respect. Growing up my Nan was very no-drinking, as her ex husband was an alcoholic, my mom shares the same view. So any events held at Nan's house or Mum's house were no alcohol allowed. But they don't go out of the way to shame others who may want to drink, just ask them to not do it at their houses...
The lady not wanting alcohol at her event is doing this with her family. She mentioned HER dad was an alcoholic. That's why she doesn't like people drinking. I don't think she's the asshole.
For the second one: my house, my rules, especially if it is trauma related like that one. I can relate pretty strongly, because my Dad was also an alcoholic and seeing alcohol often makes me me feel unsafe. You don't want that on a beautiful holiday in your home, were you want and nees to feel safe at all times. I also wouldn't allow someone to bring meat to my vegan christmas party. They can have meat any other day.
For the alcohol one I don't think the OP is the AH even though their wording was a little off. The family could just come eat dinner and open presents and then go drink somewhere later. It does kinda sound like they are hinting that they might get a little out of hand with their drinking (multiple bottles). Maybe I'm bias because my family is so large we always do Christmas at an alcohol free venue so I don't get why you would need to drink to have fun on Christmas. Your example of the vegetarian Christmas: I am not vegetarian, but I have many friends who are when we go out to eat together I usually choose vegetarian options to be courteous to them. They would not mind if I ordered meat, but it's one meal. It's not a big deal.
I think with the alcohol one, the big thing people aren’t picking up on is that OP mentioned her dad was an alcoholic, so this has most likely skewed her view of alcohol. She is expecting people to drink for the same reasons, and behave in the same way as her dad. She needs therapy to realise the difference between enjoying a drink responsibly and being an alcoholic, and to stop judging other people who drink based on her alcoholic dad.
For the alcohol one, I feel like a lot of drama could have been avoided if OP explained her reasoning for wanting no alcohol. The rest of the family may have understood or tried to come up with a compromise. But also, we don’t know the family. Maybe they get super rowdy, and she doesn’t want to be around that, which would be totally valid. Her “grow up” attitude toward alcohol was quite unnecessarily judgmental though, IMO.
For the alchol story: that's OP's house. If they say no alchol, then no alcohol, period. It does sound like they hadn't notified the guests, which is a problem, but the only other issue is the wording.
NTA for the rule
TA for the wording and notification
Also, nobody was trying to bring alcohol into her house. They just didn’t want to go to a party width that boundary. Since it’s probably the biggest party of the year, I totally feel the same.
I don’t agree… the family is a huge asshole, I completely agree with the sentiment, “if you can’t have fun without alcohol are you really having fun at all” and it became very clear, these people are so hung up on get drunk and subjecting children there to it that they don’t even care for their family.
It’s just simply gross, I understand the point but one day of the year to spend the day with your family and you won’t even truly be there… that just says you really don’t care. It’s grosssss.
1. Regardless of the plans the husband is an AH! She’s doing everything…..what the hell is he doing exactly?!
Doesn't sound like he's working, so probably doing whatever he feels like, while his wife-servant runs his life for him, thanklessly from the look of it.
Tbf as someone who is a child of an alcoholic, I can kind of understand where OPs coming from. I can't be completely comfy and enjoy a party if alcohol is involved, and while I've worked through it enough to push through for other people's parties, if I'm hosting I want to be able to enjoy myself, which means no drink. THAT BEING SAID, I think OP needs to work through judging other people who drink, since it can actually be done in a healthy way, and accept that unfortunately if you're not gonna have drink, then you're not gonna be a party of choice. While I would judge family and friends who wouldn't come to an important event (eg. important birthday, wedding etc) just because it was no alcohol, I'm not expecting to be the go-to xmas host lol
I totally agree. Having an open and respectful conversation about it with the family is a much healthier way to deal with the issue. It can be really triggering for those of us with past trauma but covering up fear with rudeness and judgement helps no one.
Yeah, I can absolutely understand that as a child of an alcoholic it can be very stressful and maybe even scary if people around you drink
I think their problem was probably more with OP's attitude about the alcohol than the actual not drinking itself...
Tbh what makes OP the ásshòle for me is her rude and judgemental attitude towards the family who do drink, if she were to message them something with "Hey family, I ask for my house to be alcohol free this Christmas, if you would like to step by for lunch and then go out for drinks for dinner you are very much welcomed to do so"
THIS. I was thinking this as well.
You can absolutely decide what people are allowed to do in your own home. No alcohol is fair.
Yeah, you CAN. But if you feel like you absolutely need to dictate that rule against everyone's wants, then don't be surprised if no-one shows up or they don't stay long.
I’m shocked that anyone thinks you can’t ban alcohol in your own house. I’m really, genuinely shocked. Other people drinking absolutely *can* affect you, as they become increasingly drunk in your house. But OP’s attitude was pretty judgmental.
The banning alcohol one is super hard. I think the way OP has phrased her POV shows her pain from childhood trauma around her alcoholic father. It’s sad to me that her family can’t understand that and help her work through it.
This! Esp her partner should know and understand. But maybe she doesn’t realise that she has trauma and therefore jumps into harsh judgement.
I think the only think about that one that makes OP the arsehole too is her "Just be grown-ups" attitude which is patronising and judgemental and I could understand why people wouldn't expect to have fun at a party hosted by someone with that attitude (but are still arseholes for sabotaging her turn to host)
However, if this extended family do drink excessively on Christmas and act in an aggressive, destructive or insulting way... then they're totally spot on and not an arsehole at all.
@@theomegajuice8660 No, being "too judgy" when exercising your own rights (like the right to set rules for your own damn house) doesn't qualify for an ah verdict.
That's what I thought too. It's clear OP is uncomfortable around alcohol because of her childhood, and she has a right to be comfortable in her own home.
@@jamestown8398yup. And people have the right to not attend parties held by people who they know are harshly judging their harmless choices. No one forced their way into her house with booze, they just chose to go elsewhere.
She’s not an AH for not wanting alcohol in her house but she is an AH for acting like drinking at a holiday party makes her entire family in-laws immature and that they need to grow up.
On the, "You can still name your kid Anna, it doesn't run out of stock." It is a bit weird to name your kid the same as their half sibling, knowing that their half sibling is named this, even if it was your idea or process.
Like, my name was supposed to be Lily May. My mum communicated this with my aunt. My aunt, 6 months more pregnant, named my cousin Lillian Paige. I was not named Lily. Jokes on them bc we're both trans and the names wouldn't have stuck anyways, but still. It's quite redundant to name two very closely related people the same thing. Especially when they're both kids.
Odd thing, there are a lot of multiple names in my family. We have several Michaels (including one Miguel, whose brother was Michael because with twelve kids my poor Abuela was running out of names, I guess), and multiple Marias, and a few Raymonds/Ramóns.
In my ex's family, there were like a million Bobs. His paternal grandpa, maternal grandpa, his dad, one maternal uncle, his brother, two aunts' husbands, and one of his cousins. All named Robert, most going by variations like Bob, Bobby, Rob, etc. Plus, one of *my* tíos was named Roberto.
It always felt weird to me to have that many same names in the family, but I dunno. Folks can name their kids as they please, I guess. It's just, with so many names out there, why be so restricted?
@@Arosukir6 yeah, i bet it was a tad confusing
I mean, I have a sister named Allie and a sister-in-law named Allie. Their real names are Allison and Alexa, but they both prefer to go by Allie. Is this confusing af? Yes. Should we force them to go by their full names? No. Also, I have 2 cousins that are brothers and both married women named Amelia. Granted, both of these situations were the end result of a new marriage and could not have been foreseen when their names were given at birth, but I think ultimately, the end result is the same.
@@Arosukir6 It would be weird to have two siblings with the same name though, like imagine Elsa being like "this is my sister, Anna and this is my other sister, Anna." Having multiple people in the family with the same name is one thing but I would've hated having siblings with the same name and I wouldn't be too fond of my sibling's sibling having the same name as me either.
I completely agree on that, especially since they'd be one person removed from being sisters. I have a cousin whose name is different from mine, but they rhyme. It was a bit confusing when we were kids and grown-ups would call us by our nicknames and we'd never know who they were talking to lol.
I don't think it was a problem or anything, but if the names were the same, I'd have definitely felt weird as heck. It's already bad to have 3 other people in your classroom with your name (happened to me at one point, my name is common in my country, and there was always at least one more person with it in my classrooms), but at home? I would have felt like I simply wasn't special in any way. A name is something personal, after all.
Something being glossed over is the op’s parent being alcoholic. Having experienced an alcoholic parent, I can understand how having alcohol invading my home (which is a refuge) can be triggering of emotional distress in the place where I would usually be able to find safely. The op is not being an arse hole. She’s setting a reasonable boundary. Everyone else is being insensitive about op’s situation.
Exactly! And I think we should also consider the fact that she wrote this after they planned a party behind her back. That could be part of the reason why she called them childish. I feel like people are glossing over the trauma and are tone policing her
100% agree! And the fact that they'd rather drink than spend a (sober) holiday with her seems to me like they latch onto alcohol a little too much
Idk I have alcoholic parent trauma and I chose YTA. If it were me, it could have been dedicating another place to drinking or having restrictions on the limit. If people decide to go elsewhere because of your rule, that’s perfectly fine. It’s their decision as much as it is OPs to ban alcohol. Trauma or not, the way your word things matters.
OP having boundaries isn't what makes them an asshole. It's their attitude about other people enjoying something they don't. Could not stop name calling about drinking. "It's childish and immature", "people need to grow up", "we're adults..." like adults can't enjoy a glass of wine or whatever. Like all people who drink are alcoholics. OP also has not mentioned if they are so blatantly judgemental to the family's faces, but I wouldn't be surprised considering how incapable they seem of talking about drinking without harsh criticism. And all of this is speaking as someone who grew up around family dealing with alcohol and drug addiction. Boundaries are fine. Ugly and hateful mass judgements not so much. YTA on that one, but not for the reason you think.
I totally agree that a child from an alcoholic parent should be able to set boundaries and not allow drinks to enter their home, their safe space. However, that person also cannot expect to be hosting family events for their partner's family and just casually saying there's a no-alcohol rule without considering their feelings on the matter. If she feels uncomfortable with alcohol, maybe don't host a party for people who like to drink on a day that isn't about her. Do so for birthdays and such, not for events that are communal.
For the alcohol story, I agree that ESH, but OP is the asshole for their wording not for not wanting alcohol in her house. Even it had been about meat, I think someone is allowed to not want it in their house. They might not want to clean dishes that have that thing on it, for one. Also maybe OP knows that people would drink to much and make a mess. It's also kinda rude if the family knew that OP's father struggled with alcohol. If they agreed to take turns hosting Christmas dinner, and it was OP's turn, the family should have stuck it out for a day, but it was unclear whether this was agreed upon so I hesitate to call the family assholes.
totally agree with you
I was thinking the same, I wonder if op has properly unpacked their trauma around alcohol (if so then hubs is the asshole for not being more supportive and explaining the situation to his family)
I agree that she could have worded it better, but also host house=host rules. I wonder if she's seen them get sloppy before and is worried about the aftermath in her home. Cleaning up after drunk adults is not my idea of desirable hosting conditions.
@@InThisEssayIWill... I agree with your reasoning. Sadly, we can only go by what OP has given us. So everything else is us interpreting things.
OP is right though... If you can't get through one day without drinking, you have an issue. A Christmas party will still be just as enjoyable whether or not you have a glass of wine.
I completely agree. Even if it was about meat they have the right to say no. My partner and I are vegetarian and our rule is if visitors want meat they have to supply it, cook it and then wash up anything they have used to cook and eat the meat with but we would not be in the wrong to say no meat in the house
I honestly find it kind of sad that alcohol is so normalised people won't come to a party without it (saying this as someone who does drink, just fed up with the whole culture around it).
I am so happy with my friends. I never drink. Normally if I host a party I buy for my guests two bottles of beer or one bottle of wine, knowing their taste. But I've stopped, cause the beer expired as they decided some years ago as long as I am not drinking in my house they also won't. I hope that people could be more open and tolerant to new experiences. I understand that they want Christmas as always. But it is repeating everya year. Why not try at least something new....
Agreed! I don't understand how people can say that an event won't be fun if they don't get to drink. It's the event that's fun, not the drinking.
@@carr0760 I think some of them are using alcohol to self medicate social anxiety and to help them ignore their boredom.
@@evilsharkey8954 again....if that's the case, you have an issue that needs to be dealt with.
@@carr0760 Oh, I know. Self medicating with alcohol is never a good thing.
1. My first thought was a bag of bagels and cream cheese. Breakfast, done.
2. My house, my rules. Having an alcoholic in the family changed my perspective and being around alcohol is a danger, especially if there's trauma involved.
3. I think the step mom is really rather sweet. Step family is extended family. Let it gooooooo!
I completely agree with number 2. I have an alcoholic in my family and to save arguments if my family ever visit there will be a no alcohol rule. Our alcohol (because me and my partner have a drink once every few months or so) will be hidden out of sight.
@@Boxed-juice thanks for a new perspective
I totally get why someone may not want to be around drunk people. However it's not op's place to tell other people to grow up xD
@@JankoWalski-hz3lu definitely not a good way to address the issue or helpful.
With no2- they didn't go against her and bring alcohol anyway. They understood her rules so decided not to go. You can't force people to come to your house. What if her rule was no presents? Or no tree? I'd choose not to go as it's part of Xmas. It's the only day of the year I do drink on
With the name thing, I think it's awful that the ex and his new wife would do that!
It's not sweet unless they are all on good terms, and they checked with the OP first.
For the alcohol one, since they're hosting the party, they have the right to ban alcohol in their own home. I would not feel safe in my own home if people started bringing alcohol in
I can't believe so many people think she is an asshole unless she allows people to bring alcohol and drink in her house.
Yeah aspecially if you’re a child of an alcoholic
Exactly. It's her house, so she's allowed to decide what is or isn't consumed within it. If she was a vegan and said no meat could be brought into her house, that would be no different and she would also not be an AH.
She's also right that if people can't get through one day without a drink, they have a problem. The Christmas party is enjoyable because it's a Christmas party and you're with people you enjoy being with. That happens whether you're drinking or not.
@@carr0760 This argument only works if OP does in fact fall into the category of “people you enjoy being with” based on the sanctimonious tone they take in their post it is possible they are not.
OP have every right to set the rules for their own party and their guests have every right to choose to go elsewhere
Agreed; I don't drink and I've had parties that were intentionally alcohol free, although not with family. I think she's well within her right to ask people not to bring alcohol into her home, although I suspect that the way she went about asking for it made her relatives feel very judged. There are ways to ask for these things in a kind and positive way.
With the alcohol/ vegan scenario, I think you missed the fact that alcohol very much can affect others (drunk behaviour etc can be very triggering) and also some people are not comfortable with alcohol being used around children. With the vegan situation, I think no one gets to insist they bring meat into a vegan's home. It is literally part of a dead animal and that could be really distressing to people who don't consider it normal even if society does. In parallel, if a family didn't eat a type of meat for religious purposes, I'm sure most people wouldn't disrespect them and their safe place (home) by bringing pork to dinner! Ethical/philosophical beliefs such as veganism are akin to religious beliefs. You don't have to agree with them but if they aren't harming anyone, you 100% have to respect them.
For the alcohol one, we didn’t get to hear much about how the relatives behave when drinking, but I have elected to stop spending holidays with certain relatives on account of their drunken holiday behavior - I often felt uncomfortable and wasn’t having a good time. It may be that the OP wouldn’t mind everyone having a little alcohol if they didn’t get drunk and behave badly.
We also don't know how ops alcoholic family member was when they drank. Drunk people can be violent and nasty it could be something that caused a lot of trauma. I don't think op needed to say they need to grow up if they can't have Christmas without alcohol but they definatley need to evaluate their relationship with alcohol if they can't enjoy one day without it
I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that, if they're so unwilling to skip alcohol that they'll go to the trouble and drama of setting up a rival event, then they probably don't have a healthy relationship with alcohol.
My mom's family will probably never have any kind of family gathering without alcohol, because so many of my relatives are connoisseurs of one type of alcohol or another (my dad made his first inroads in winning over Grandpa by actually knowing stuff about wine). However, I have very rarely seen my dad drunk, and I have never seen my mom or any of her siblings/in-laws/niblings drunk. They appreciate the wine or scotch or whatever their drink of choice is too much to abuse it like that. If that's the situation, I can very much understand why OP's in-laws are horrified at not being allowed to bring alcohol.
On the other hand, I have heard and witnessed the horror stories about Drunk Uncle Cletus (from my dad's side... this is the genius who couldn't be bothered to put out his cigarette before using the propane tank in the back of his truck to temporarily air up his flat tire until he got home. It worked out as well as you might expect.) Lots of families have Drunk Uncle Cletus. If OP has legitimate concerns about Drunk Uncle Cletus ruining Christmas again, but this time when she's NOT powerless to stop it because it's her house... I fully sympathize.
Given OP’s language about people who enjoy alcohol are childish and need to grow up, I think there is still a level of “moral superiority” going on. Is that a result of her trauma-perhaps-but it sounds to me like she wants to shame those who enjoy alcohol in any capacity. I have a feeling she’d be the kind of person to remark “see, alcohol isn’t necessary at parties; I can’t believe how dependent all of you are” in the middle of the event. That makes for a hostile environment to be in, over something that people enjoy.
It was definitely an AH move to plan an alternate party without having a talk with OP, but I rather understand why people wouldn’t want to be around someone with that kind of judgmental attitude, even if it stems from a traumatic place.
I have to disagree when you said "you wouldn't name your child just to spite somebody else." Yes, they would. People absolutely do use every single part of having a child to spite another person, especially an ex. It's terrible and manipulative, but it happens often enough.
I think it's very weird that the new, much younger wife is naming her child to match her husband's ex's choice. It looks like she's really trying to wedge herself into the family, when she doesn't need to try so hard.
I think the whole thing is very petty, and I have no doubts the ex-husband knew how OP would feel about it. They were married so he knew she would want the name Anna for a second possible daughter.
That being said, the OP was wrong. Voice your opinion if you must, but not your baby so not your decision. She's not even pregnant right now and you can't call dibs on a name. And she really has no idea how much or little the movie Frozen means to the new wife because she's not even friendly with her ex.
I personally feel soooooo uncomfortable around drunk people so I totally understand
With the alcohol one OP is not an asshole no you can't shove things down peoples throats but saying please don't drink in my house is totally valid!
I don't think you have to let someone bring alcohol in your home; although it might not do anyone else any physical damage, as the child of an alcoholic, it might be deeply distressing to have alcohol in their home. Having said that, it was framed in a judgemental way, which I know many found disengaging, but I think that's another layer of childhood trauma tbh
Even if op has some childhood trauma with alcohol they didn't have to come off as an asshole and if it's a trauma response then they need some form of help because coming off as someone who looks down on others isn't the best way to keep friends.
@@boooo13 100% agree with you, they need to work on themselves! Just trying to give some understanding of why they would be defensive about not having alcohol in their safe space
@@_E_m_m_a_. Oh i understand why they would be defensive.
i just am getting tired of seeing people say that mental illness isn't an excuse for bad actions but then excuse the op for looking down on people because of their issues.
I'm not saying that's what you were doing, i literally picked your comment seen it seems like you understand that op being judgmental isn't okay. I was reading some of the other comments where they are judging op's in-laws as being full on alcoholics (which they could be - i don't know but it's hard for me to not say that op isn't an asshole like others seem to be doing) and excuse op because of trauma.
I just am getting tired of what all seems like black and white thinking.
@@boooo13 I think it's more to do with that the family planned an alternative party with alcohol in it instead of just going one day without alcohol to spend time with OP and that they were really hurt by that action, and that's why they came off as so judgemental.
@@cyansalvatore6011 We will never fully know if that is the only time OP acted judgmental or not.
As for the second one the only thing is that she said her father was an alcoholic so it might be traumatic or triggering for her to see people drinking so for me personally having lots of experience with my own trauma being ignored I’m conflicted for that reason
OP is definitely NTA for the alcohol one, and I'm glad you brought up the bra story. Interestingly though, this is one of the few instances where your reasoning in the bra story ("your house, your rules") actually applies! It's totally reasonable to ban alcohol or meat from your house if you're uncomfortable with it (although OP definitely should have spoken to their husband about it first), and I have many friends who have done so before. Food and drugs are sensitive topics and I would never begrudge someone for banning alcohol from Christmas.
Also, it *is* weird that OP's in-laws can't go one night without alcohol, to the point of planning an entirely different event. That's such an extreme move to abstaining from drinking for one night. And I say this as someone who loves to drink on holidays and around family. Perhaps it is a culture thing, as one commentor pointed out, but alcohol shouldn't be that big in your life that you would choose it over spending time with a person. That behavior makes me think OP may be onto something and the family may be too dependent or behave badly while intoxicated.
OP was definitely judgemental, sure, but for the matter of banning alcohol, OP was NTA.
I feel like a large part of it is op's tone when it comes to alcohol, it comes off as looking down on people to the point that even i wouldn't go to op's party and i don't even drink. Sometimes it's more of the person just comes off as an asshole so why would i want to go there to hang out with an asshole?
@@boooo13this! Making a compromise like “drink outside, don’t drink too much” or talking it out would have been fine. I’d be fine with a Christmas party with no/little alcohol, but don’t be like “what do you mean people don’t want to come :(((( I only banned something everyone else loves”.
@@kurapikakurta1997 You shouldn't have to compromise on something like that. Sure, no one is obligated to come, but I for one would be pretty hurt if people who are supposed to care about me prioritized alcohol over spending time with me. They can drink literally any other time, why would someone who cared about me ditch me on a holiday that it was understood we were spending together because I set a boundary in my own home about something that makes me uncomfortable?
I agree OP was being judgy, but I do wonder how much of that was after the fact. She's been to their celebrations and put up with the booze and presumably never said anything (why would the no booze rule come as a shock otherwise?) and the SIL felt no hesitation in talking to her about cocktails, so it doesn't seem like she's been awful about it before.
Obviously we only have her side of the story, so could be completely off, but I think it'd be pretty understandable to be calling them childish when feeling hurt over being ditched at Xmas because they couldn't go without getting hammered for a few hours on one Xmas day for the sake of their host's comfort. Honestly, it is pretty childish to set up another party without a word just because someone said no booze, and it would be pretty indicative of needing to grow up if you argued the point about whether you should be allowed to get drunk in someone else's home, particularly if the stuff about OPs dad is known.
Drinking can definitely harm other people. I come from a family that drinks far too much and they don’t trash things but it leads to a lot of emotions and arguments and difficult situations that wouldn’t have arisen if they were sober. Since childhood, I have had a pit in my stomach every time they reached for another glass or someone raised their voice or there was a loaded silence waiting for a reaction. The attitude of the OP in that case was definitely disrespectful, and I do think it’s more complicated when the discussion is whether someone can bring their own alcohol, ie you are actually banning it completely. I do sort of agree with OP that not drinking for one night should be a small sacrifice, even if I would never call it childish. I’m not sure it’s right to complete ban alcohol at your event, but I do understand why you would want to. If you are in someone else’s home, you can leave. If you are putting time and energy into hosting something in your own home, your safe space, and it’s meaningful to you, I really get that it’s complicated. I for instance don’t think I would ever want to serve alcohol at my wedding. I don’t want something that special to me tainted by what alcohol does to the people I love. But I also get that people have freedom to make their own choices.
I so understand your feelings around this. There is quite a lot of alcohol abuse in my family and it’s given me a lot of reservations around drinking. I am so sick and tired of people trying to force alcohol on me, too, when I refuse to drink because I’m not comfortable. I am only comfortable drinking 1-2 drinks either in my own house or with close friends. Not with colleagues, not with most family, not with strangers. And yet, colleagues over the years have insisted again and again, brinking me drinks I don’t like. ‘You have to learn to enjoy wine’ - no I do not get out of my face. I feel like OP someone doesnt realise her trauma and therefore jumps to her extreme judgement.
@@chantiemaya
I agree, it's hard to make a definitive judgement on the situation because we don't know the whole context of the situation (in this case the past trauma of drinking for OP). I feel like this is a common theme among the AITA stories because it is hard, as the OP to transfer experience(s) into words, especially if it involves multiple linked historic events in a persons life or even multiple people's lives.
Therefore, there is only so much we, as the spectators of this snippet of one person's experience in life can say/judge about said snippet and experience
Other people drinking around you totally affects you, I'm not comfortable around drunk people because they stand so close to me which makes me really nervous and they always talk so loud
TBH the Anna/Elsa one... Naming their daughter Anna is a bit...of a dick move. It's effectively pushing the OP out of the situation, as it's picking up where she left off with the family essentially. Like someone picking up your snowball to finish your snowman for you. I get the 'make her feel part of the family' thing, but it also feels like making a new family entirely. Also, having two sisters called Anna would be confusing for Elsa imo, if the OP had another daughter. There's no JR or SNR to be able to tell them apart, it'd likely become a case of Anna 1 and Anna 2 that would just push the hypothetical daughter aside in the family.
This. To me, the way she lashed out felt like this is about more than just the name. Sure her daughter is being included in the family. But it feels like she is being excluded from this whole new family her daughter has. I can imagine that being scary already as a parent. The name situation just pushed her over the edge.
At least that is how it felt to me. Otherwise, her reaction is still way over the top.
That was my thought. Sure, OP could also use the name Anna, but how weird would it be for Elsa to have two sisters with the same name. It would be really odd and get confusing unless one of them goes by their middle name
I'm glad someone else sees it this way. Shaaba says it's "sweet" but it was OP's idea and her ex's new wife co-opted it without her permission. If it was a coincidence that would be one thing, but she's admitted that it was intentional.
I agree with the ESH for the alcohol one. However, I think that you haven't really acknowledged any of the childhood trauma OP mentioned from their dad being an alcoholic. Imo it is okay to ask people to go without drinking for an evening if you know this is a severe trigger for you. Especially if you are the one hosting the event. But the way that OP went about it doesn't sound like they explained this part of the story to their partner's family. And the way they wrote their post feels more like their main reasoning was "drinking is childish". And that is no reason to restrict other people in their freedom. So ESH. But not everyone banning alcohol from a party is automatically an asshole.
For the names one, I feel the need to point out that OP really can't use the name Anna for her future daughter if her daughter already has a half-sister named Anna. Imagine this with any other name. Imagine if OP's daughter was Chelsea and OP wanted to name her next daughter Stacy, but the husband names his next daughter Stacy. It would be absolutely weird for OP to name her next daughter Stacy as well, because it would be really confusing and inconvenient for poor Chelsea to have two sisters named Stacy, right? Same goes here. OP went way too far in her anger, as she herself admits, but she's right that they're stealing the name from her. She won't be able to name any future children Anna in good conscience, because that could lead to a lot of confusion and frustration for Elsa and both of her half-sisters if she did.
That's exactly what I was thinking! I thought it was weird that people were saying she could name her kid Anna anyway.
I mean, I have a sister named Allie and a sister-in-law named Allie. Their real names are Allison and Alexa, but they both prefer to go by Allie. Is this confusing af? Yes. Should we force them to go by their full names? No. Also, I have 2 cousins that are brothers and both married women named Amelia. Granted, both of these situations were the end result of a new marriage and could not have been foreseen when their names were given at birth, but I think ultimately, the end result is the same.
I was the oldest child for both my mom and my bio dad. He ended up having another kid a couple years later and literally gave her the same name. We even have the same spelling variant! For awhile, we had the same last name, so our middle names were the only difference. I wasn't even raised with her (we met as adults), but I grew up knowing I had a sister with the same name as me, and that was weird enough. If we actually grew up together, that would have been super awkward. It's not even a matter of being confusing, but older siblings often feel like the younger ones take attention from them, and younger siblings feel in the shadow of the older ones. Having the same name could really mess with those feelings in a bad way.
I don't think it's a big deal. We have a lot of "Giuseppe" in my family, not to mention the TWO "Aunt Stella" and like four Maria's, and while it can get confusing it's not that big of a deal.
If she likes the name, she should use it.
Or she could use another spelling like Ana or the karen spelling annieah
For the alcohol story, I actually had a similar situation happen when I was a kid. My best friend had a big birthday party at her dads farm when she turned 15, and for various reasons it was requested that no alcohol be brought or consumed at the party. There was fishing and bbq and games, plenty of other things to do. My mother’s boyfriend (an alcoholic) decided to sneak an ice chest of beer in, leaving it in the back of the truck & going disappearing to drink during the party. Because he got drunk before the party ended, and no one was supposed to have alcohol to begin with, we had to leave. I do agree that OP has the right to determine whether or not people drink in her home (though I also agree that she’s pretty judgmental about it). But, as in my story above, there are a lot of reasons not to want people drinking when they’re on your property. Things get broken, people get hurt (my dad, famously, breaking his foot during a drunken Christmas Eve wrestling match with his brother), drunk/buzzed driving happens, and you might just plain not want to deal with certain people when they’re drinking. My point is that even though OP is kind of an asshole in her presentation of WHY she doesn’t want alcohol in her home, and also not accepting that because of it nobody wants to go to her house, if it’s reasonable for a 15 year old’s birthday party (and I personally think it was cause there were a lot of things the family could have ended up liable for including underaged teen drinking), then it’s also reasonable here. Even if, again, it sounds like OP was a judgmental butthead about it.
For Elsa/Anna, all I have to say is in regards to naming your child something just to spite your ex… lol don’t count it out. I knew a guy once upon a time who had two kids with two women and the younger child was spitefully named the exact same thing as the older one. Both of them juniors, named after dad. 😅
Yeah... okay so my 15th birthday party was at our house and we had no parents around. We were home alone. I had clearly stated that no alcohol was allowed.
Despite of this, some of my classmates brought alcohol and drank it. One of them got too drunk to cover it and was scared to tell me, so he drove his moped home... he crashed.
Thankfully he "only" broke an arm... but my cousin died 4 years earlier when she drove drunk (which this boy knew). the guilt and the trauma I had to work through after this was just horrible. Like why? Why drive home drunk from a party at all? Especially knowing what happened to my cousin! Like what the f*ck. I might be harsh, but I haven't forgiven him, and that's 3 and a half years ago.
@@SammyLammy1D A 15th birthday party is different already because not wanting underage drinking at your house is perfectly reasonable. Teens also usually do not know their limits that well and particularly with no parents home, its perfectly right not to want this. If parents tell their underage child not to drink, that is responsible parenting. Telling your in-laws quickly comes off as entitlement, though.
To be completely honest the way the last OP talks gives me HUGE red flags. The kind of person who'd call a divorce lawyer over something like that, and who'd threaten to sabotage the children's relationship, is NOT someone I'd trust to give a remotely truthful representation of the issue. Just the way she describes/justifies her descent into rage is spooky. It's exactly the way every abuser I've known has described their behaviour. I do think there may be weird pettiness involved on the new wife's part but it could also have been totally innocent fun. In that case it's on the ex-husband to have told new wife it's something OP takes seriously, but... Let's just say if I was the ex husband I sure as hell wouldn't want to appease OP either. Anyone who even has the THOUGHT that threatening to make THEIR OWN CHILD'S LIFE harder to spite their ex is an OK thing to do is an asshole full stop. If that's how she reacts to anger I feel bad for Elsa.
Good point on this one about how unreliable the narrator may be…. On the surface, I understand why she might be upset (especially if she’s not over her ex), but to even SAY she’s going to sabotage the relationship between the two children even if she wouldn’t do this IRL is definitely a huge red flag.
Tbh, all that tells me is that it isn't just about the name. She sounds panicked. You don't panick over a name.
Whether the ex and his new wife intended it or not (which, they definitely could have. Sorry Shaaba but some people absolutely do name their kids out of spite), they chose a name they knew was significant to OP with a justification that while sweet on surface, that they want the two girls to just be sisters and close rather than making differences between them, also others OP from this new family unit. It places her child in their family, not the other way around, and if there are any concerns about custody (which there always are, even if they're not immediate) or getting the daughter to pick sides in the divorce then it could have OP panicking that they intend to have their little family unit with HER daughter and leave her behind.
That would explain - though obviously not justify - the response of "if you try to do this, I will sabotage their sister relationship" as less of a spiteful reaction to them 'stealing' the name to strengthen that bond, and more as a "I will not allow you to steal my family". Especially if OP and her ex ever explicitly talked about having another daughter called Anna before they split, as that could add extra 'replacing OP as wife and mother' vibes.
She literally called her *divorce* lawyer. That to me screams fear over losing the daugher she already has, not sulking over a hypothetical future daughter.
@@katharineeavan9705As a divorced mom, I sympathize with some of her feelings-but not her assumptions and behavior. Yes, her feelings about the divorce and custody are likely fueling some intense feelings. Ideally, she might have unpacked some things with a supportive friend or therapist before going nuclear on everyone. But when feelings run high, people often act without thinking clearly. It’s understandable, but some apologies are in order here.
One part that bugged me was her assumption that the new wife can’t possibly like Frozen as much as she does. That’s incredibly self-centered. LOTS of people love the film and feel like it struck a deep emotional chord. Also, it’s not unusual for someone to keep dating or marrying the same type. Possibly, OOP and new wife have more in common than she realizes. Unless the new wife has a history of pettiness, I’m inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.
@@catsmom129 Yeah, and I mean, for the whole “taking her child into their family thing”….. guys…. it’s not one or the other. She can be part of both families. After all, one has her father and one has her mother. Both have one of her parents. It would be one thing if the new wife was trying to completely steal the daughter away, but I don’t get that impression. She seems to just want to join the families and involve the daughter as part of this family AS WELL, not necessarily instead. And it also sounds like they didn’t even decide for certain they’re going to do it yet, just had the idea. Family is more complex than “you’re in this parent’s new family or you’re in that parent’s new family”. I mean… heck… when you get married you’re also sorta joining families but that doesn’t mean you stop being in your existing family. You don’t just get a choice of your parents or the in-laws for the rest of your life when you sign that marriage certificate! There’s a lot to family!
As some one who is a recoving alcoholic I wouldn't want it in my house, but I don't mind if I go somewhere else and they have it. It's more of a case of my house is a safe zone from Alcohol. And if I'm struggling, I need that space. Most of the people are really accepting of that. It's a boundary for my safety.
exactly! if you get upset or triggered by alcohol consumption at someone else's house, you can go home. if you get upset or triggered by alcohol consumption at your own house, there's no way to remove yourself from the situation. this is one of those situations where "my house, my rules" should 100% apply
I think the most appropriate time to ban alcohol is at the person's own birthday party. I would feel uncomfortable if my friends were drinking at my party
I saw the alcohol story on another video, and I stand by what I said then: OP is absolutely within her rights to not want alcohol in her home, and that is a boundary that people should respect. OP is also incredibly judgemental. Based on the available info, it seems like it's OP's turn to host her extended family's Christmas like they take turns within the family, and I think it's rude for her family to refuse to go to her house because she won't allow alcohol. We don't drink in my family and if we hosted a party, we wouldn't have alcohol there, and I would be really upset and surprised if the people we invited refused to come because we wouldn't be serving alcohol. Also, if I were going to someone's house for dinner and that person was vegetarian/vegan, I wouldn't ask to bring meat just because I want to eat meat. Unless there was an allergy or a dietary issue, I would suck it up and eat what was served. I might swing by McD's on the way home, but that's a separate issue. Ultimately, I agree that everyone in the story sucks. OP sucks for her judgemental attitude. SIL sucks for attempting to sabotage an event OP has (presumably) already put considerable effort into planning. Husband sucks for not backing up his wife's boundary about alcohol. And the family sucks for refusing to spend a major holiday with a member of their family because she has asked them not to drink for a few hours. If OP was asking for alcohol to be eliminated from ALL family events she attended, that would be out of line, but not wanting it in her house is acceptable.
For the alcohol one, did no one suggest that the main event should still be at OP's without alcohol (since it's her turn to host!), but they could have an afterparty at the hijacker's house? Or do their Christmas parties usually run too late to allow for an afterparty? Hell, OP's hub could even send them off with the ingredients for that festive margarita someone wanted to try (showing support for his wife's no drinking rules but also acceptance that ), there's so many more cooperative ways this could have been handled with a little communication. ESH for sure.
As an adult child of alcohol and dysfunction I think it’s more than reasonable to control substance use at your own home. I actually do drink so maybe it’s a bit more nuanced for me, but if I had witnessed triggering behavior during a party I may have to ask a guest to leave (or at least politely suggest they have some water). My problem is the OP’s language, but regression is often a trauma response so I can understand. There are resources and support groups for adult children of alcoholics, so please don’t lose hope. ❤
As for the vegetarian analogy, I find that slightly sensitive. As a lifelong vegetarian there is no meat allowed in my home unless it’s needed for medical reasons (blood sugar, etc). Meat goes against my ethical and some of my religious beliefs and I don’t feel bad not warning people that the food is going to be veggie, though in fairness anyone who knows me can guess. I’ve never had a friend or loved one complain about my cooking or not come to dinner because of my values. It hurts my feelings a little to say that I could be harming someone by giving them vegetables as if my food is unhealthy or sub par. I do think smoking is a better analogy than vegetarian food, which really does aim not to hurt anyone
@OdinsSage I have the same policy, but haven't really had to enforce it as of yet. That said, even though I'm veggie, I don't complain when I go over to someone else's house and find they've prepared meat for dinner. It's not a religious decision or ethical one, but rather an environmental decision for me, though, so maybe I'm the odd one out here. But I would say it would be acceptable to partake only of the veggie/vegan dishes and maybe bring your own food in that case, especially since not having something like eggs or meat for a long time can make someone sensitive to it so they'll get sick upon eating it again.
I think with the alcohol another thing to consider is past trauma regarding op’s dad being an alcoholic. Not saying that they aren’t the a**hole but just another thing to think about and another layer to the situation
Okay, but why didn't she said it then? Like, she brought it in the first paragraph, but after that it's just "I'm better than you because I don't drink these childish beverage, you should be able to have fun without it", and yeah, it doesn't rub well on people ^^'
@@krankarvolund7771 she most definitely went about it in a crappy way but it’s entirely possible the effects of her dad’s alcoholism impact her on a subconscious level, leading her to look down on/be uncomfortable around people that do drink and equating them all with her dad. Not necessarily saying she is right or correct in that assumption but it could be a thought pattern that is present due to past trauma.
I think the way she worded it was rude, about people needing to grow up. BUT as a recovering alcoholic 20+ years sober I don’t mind being around others who are drinking wether in public or in their home (if I can bring my own vehicle to leave if I become uncomfortable) however if I am hosting something then alcohol is not involved. Alcohol doesn’t have a place in my home. Period. My wedding was alcohol free, because it’s not a necessity and because I have no desire to pay for someone else to get drunk lol, also I couldn’t have afforded it back then anyway.
@@dan_the_sunshine_man totally makes sense, i thought of unconscious bias too. like you said, though, it still sounds incredibly off-putting when someone keeps saying other's are "childish" for drinking
@@dan_the_sunshine_man Maybe, but I can't be everyone's therapist, if you have subconscious trauma, go talk to a therapist, meanwhile I'll judge you for your actions ^^'
So, I have grown up with an alcoholic as a parent. As a result I have a lot of trauma related to alcohol and I can get really upset when I see other people being drunk because I relive those parts of my childhood. If I hosted something, I wanted to ban alcohol, but was always forced to allow alcohol to be considerate of others. However, that made me inconsiderate of myself. Now that I've worked through the trauma, I do sometimes drink alcohol myself (though I have very strict rules about it) and also serve alcohol when I host something. However, considering that there is probably some trauma involved in the alcohol story, I don't think the OP is the asshole and that we shouldn't judge her by her use of language
Nah OP is being an asshole and using trauma to excuse this. Let's say OP has trauma around dogs and isn't comfortable having dogs in her house, that's fine, what's not fine is trash talking everyone for having dogs and getting mad that another family member is having an event where dogs are allowed, especially after OP trashed talked the whole family.
@@GraveyardMaiden Ehm.... I honestly disagree and please never say that someone is using trauma. The other Christmas party was only organized because OP wanted to make the Christmas party an alcohol free event and this sister reacted on that by inviting everybody to the other Christmas party that she would host instead. That's a pretty shitty move.
Furthermore, I don't know if you know what it's like to have trauma/ PTSD. It can cause stress, panic attacks, reliving traumatic events. Sure, her wording sounds judgmental and I wouldn't use her wording, but she is also very young which may play a role in her choice of words. Living with trauma related to alcohol is horrible. I'm still working through mine and it's taking me so long because you cannot blame someone or something. Alcoholism is a mental illness mostly triggered by a traumatic event. If you're a child of someone dealing with substance abuse, you have to deal with a lot of stuff you're too young for, I needed to raise my brothers, walk the dog, cook dinner and it was always tense. To this day (I'm 30 now) I cannot have a relationship with my parents because they're still struggling with alcoholism and that's not a healthy environment for me.
So, yes she could have chosen different words, but since she was supposed to host Christmas dinner, it was up to her whether she allowed alcohol or not. Because she didn't allow alcohol someone else in her family decided to host Christmas dinner behind her back. If we use your comparison: she was supposed to host an event and she didn't allow dogs. Because she didn't allow dogs, someone else in her family decided to host the event where dogs are allowed, but did it behind her back. Does this sounds like a fair reaction to OP?
@@GraveyardMaiden I rewatched this part again and OP never mentions that it is trauma related. People in the comments who have similar experiences as OP have used the word trauma.
@@wheelylazylaris I get where you're coming from with not being comfortable with saying people are "using their trauma", given it makes trauma be invalidated, but what you also have to keep in mind there are people who use trauma as an excuse to bully, manipulate and abuse people. Though in this case OP never stated she had trauma, people using trauma to excuse her down right rude behavior is not ok
@@GraveyardMaiden So you feel OP is still in the wrong by not allowing alcohol in her own home at the dinner she was supposed to organise?
As a child of divorced parents that got messy, I'm really torn. My stepmother at first seemed super welcoming of both me and my sister, slowly became clear she expected us to "choose" her over our mum. As soon as one of us showed we weren't going to abandon my mum, first my sister aged 12 then me aged 17, she quickly cut us off completely and made my dad choose between his "old family and new family"; we now only see out dad once a year and we haven't seen our half sister in 10 years (we're waiting until she's 16 so as to not rock the boat). So my view of the stepmum purposely choosing that name goes more towards wanting the mum to be out of the family, but I fully understand I'm very bias and drawing from my own family drama.
On the other hand it is not her baby so she cannot dictate the name of any baby that is not her own. Calling her lawyer and threatening to sabotage the child's relationship with the baby is not in any way ok. So even though I see, again from my own bias, why the mum is hurt and feeling threatened by the name, ultimately she has to suck it up, apologise and be the bigger person. Again from my experience, my mum could have defamed my step mum and dad as they were having an affair behind her back for years and really screwed her over financially, but she was the bigger person and refused to spoil our relationship with our dad. And she's the one who sees us every week now
The name one is honestly pretty weird. It's feels like the new wife is trying to replace her or something, idk if it is as wholesome as the new wife made it out to be. It's like someone buying a house that you wanted to buy, or starting to flirt with someone you like. There is a clear breach there for me
There are so many additional questions I have with this one. Most important, does Elsa have an opinion about it? Is she close with Dad and step mom? is she super excited about getting a baby sister? I'm assuming she's been watching frozen since she was born maybe she just automatically assumed her baby sister would be named Anna? Maybe she even said something to that effect when she was at dad's house? I think this is the most important question here.
As for step mom.. I'm of two minds about it. It's almost like watching someone steal your dreams. Even if op is (ultimately) glad about the divorce (as in no longer emotionally invested in the ex) there is a lot of pain in looking back on the future you envisioned together and laying those dreams to rest, having someone new pick up those dreams and watch your previous partner go along happily with them is salt in the wound. Ex could have easily deflected with a "idk honey, frozen was a really big deal for OP and I don't know that it's something I want to replicate in our relationship" but he didn't (I'm assuming he knows that this will be hurtful to op and kinda seems like he wanted a reason to get her mad.. 🤷)
I definitely think it can be a questionable situation, but ultimately the person impacted the most by all this squabbling (who is currently born that is) is little Elsa. I’d want to get her perspective on this if she’s old enough to provide it - if she’s excited for her sister and is happy to have a little sister named Anna. If she likes her step mom, is safe and comfortable with her birth dad, and feels like they’re enough a part of their life to make it worth while. This should be asked by both parties mind you, not just the mother who’s pissed off.
The kids are just never taken into consideration for a lot of this. Even with my own parents, who had a mostly amicable divorce, there was a lot of crap thrown when my now stepmom got pregnant. And she ended up having a little girl on my birthday. I kept hearing sass and shade on all sides for weeks, with me getting shoehorned into the middle of it all, before someone actually personally asked me, “what do you think about this?” It took that long to ask for my thoughts, and I was perfectly fine with it. Even with all the sass I had, as a teenager always does, that sweet little baby was not a part of that sass in the slightest. It was almost offensive that anyone thought it would be, or that anyone was mad that a literal child was born on a specific day. And 11 years later, with as jaded and anxious a person as I tend to be, my birthday gives me a shit ton of joy because I get to celebrate it with my little sister. I’ve made her birthday cake since she was three, I even take off work so I can celebrate with her, and I’ve loved every minute of it.
@@Silentgrace11 that is so sweet! It seems like you have a great relationship with your little sis.
Honestly it was an ESH judgement for me, but yeh it's very creepy to me that dad are step mom are wanting matching names when neither of the choose daughter's name to begin with. Like it feels so much like they're trying to spite OP or force a relationship on daughter
The first one the only one NTA is the OP. Her partner and his parents expect everything to be convenient for them at OP's expense.
For the second one it won't kill those guests to go without drinking for one night for one year. They can always get together afterwards for drinks at the sister's house. Two parties 🎉 everyone's happy.
with the third one I think it would be weird for the child if both her sisters were named anna and the op came up with the concept so it would kind of be stealing that name, especially because the stepmom could've chosen any other name
I've been thinking of banning alcohol from certain family gatherings at my house because my family will get ridiculously drunk. One year during 4th of July I didn't even provide alcohol and some of the guests found my own stash of whiskey in the freezer as well as brought their own beer. They drank a good bit of it and by the end of the day I was dealing with belligerent guests who were "just trying to have a good time". Any time I turned around they were trying to break something or start something with someone and occasionally fireworks would be involved. When they left I found beer cans stashed under my flowers in the flower bed and scattered throughout the yard. Only 2 people got drunk, but everyone else was handing them beers and watching them act like fools. They were also the only 2 alcoholics in our family at the party, so it was very irresponsible of the people providing the alcohol.
The alcohol one: I actually have a phobia of drunk people, so it would affect me. But I would also never host a party or whatever cause I'm not particularly social, so it would not be a problem for me.
This. Sounds like me.
I cannot imagine needing alcohol so much I would cancel Christmas and start my own separate party JUST to drink. A lot of comments here have already pointed out that OP has trauma with alcohol, and I can't believe her husband at the very least isn't respecting her, or at least trying to compromise. I do hate the way OP framed this, very judgey, but NTA. Husband is TA for not advocating for his wife and family, fr, a few hours without alcohol is that terrible an idea to them?! I think that would make OP double down on her opinion that alcohol consumption is childish, and give her justification for being so judgmental.
Exactly this. I can't believe how many people think it's completely reasonable to choose alcohol over family. If you care about someone, you'll choose to respect their rules, even if you don't particularly like them.
I think it's totally fine to not serve alcohol. But you could approach it in a kinder way. "I'm so excited that it's my turn to host this year. I love all of you and the quality time we enjoy on Christmas, and I want to try something a little different. I'm inviting everyone to enjoy an alcohol-free dinner with me. I know it's a little bit of a break from tradition, and I thank you all for giving it a chance." You could even compromise with something like "For those of you who want, there will be a cocktail hour at my sister's house afterward."
Personally I wasn't thinking about comparing it to smoking (perhaps because you can step outside and smoke and the effect on me would be smaller) but to having a vegiterian meal and asking people to respect that. I think because alcohol is more like part of things she would serve or you know would be enjoyed around the table? Idk. I just think that if she was vegeterian/vegan and was hosting xmas, she would have every right to be all "we're not eating meet this year, I'm hosting and that's how I'm doing it" and while her tone could be better, I wouldn't think of her as an asshole. She's not forcing her rules on anyone's lives. She's just asking to make it suit her better since she's the host. Especially since as a host she probably has way fewer ways of avoiding drunk company than she would if she was a guest. It's not like she could just leave early or whatever. And perhaps it is the child of an alcoholic speaking to me, but I honestly don't see how not drinking for one event would be too much to ask for. The OP clearly has some stuff to process, been there, but I don't think banning alcohol from one xmas dinner is such an unreasonable demand.
I got really uncomfortable when meat was brought up as a comparison to alcohol coming in, because I and my family keep kosher, and we will forbid meat at a dairy meal, especially non kosher meat…
as someone who enjoys alcohol (and who got vomity drunk on Christmas but i didn't realize the beers were 9%, still on me tho) if i was going to a Christmas party where no alcohol was allowed i wouldn't bitch about it, I'd just be glad someone cared enough to invite me 🤷
specifically though i live in Utah where a lot of people are Mormon and don't drink so the culture is a little different here
OMG, I love that response. I would invite you, if I ever had parties.
My family once did veggie Christmas with me and honestly, it meant more to me than any material gift ever could have. Because it was acknowledging not only my deepest values, but also the third party - the animal - that can't speak for themselves.
Some things are not just about simple preference, but deep rooted values. The same with alcohol, especially if their father was an alcoholic. Yes, you can be compassionate, at least one day out of respect in their house. I mean, you probably wouldn't bring pig meat to a Muslim household just because "everyone's allowed to eat what they like". Values shouldn't only be respected when religion is involved 😅✌️
The drink one is tough. If her dad was an alcoholic, maybe she has some bad memories around Christmas and drink. She's very judgemental, she could have good reason. Maybe host a different event that isn't so linked to drinking?
Exactly. I don't understand why she thinks other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy whatever they want at Christmas just because her dad couldn't control himself around alcohol. It's not their problem. It was a silly choice to want to host a party so linked with alcohol then ban that very thing people enjoy. It's like hosting a BBQ then telling everyone they're not allowed to eat meat at it.
People who think Xmas is closely linked to drinking also think that about literally every other holiday. To them, drinking is inextricable from celebratig in general. Xmas is like a month long, they could easily have just done drinks at the SILs on Xmas eve or boxing day and had one sober meal
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 ...people do have vegetarian BBQs. It'd be weird to go to an explicitly vegetarian BBQ and bring meat. Just have your own BBQ another day. There's no limit on how many BBQs you can attend and not eating meat at just one of them for the sake of attending a friend's event where they are offering food won't hurt you
As the victim of an Evil Stepmother, I have to say that there are actually people out there who would deliberately steal someone's baby name for their own entertainment or a dominance move. If my mother had had a name set aside for an unborn child when my stepmother gave birth, and my stepmother had known about it, my little half sibling would be called that name, and it would absolutely be a deliberate evil act. Alternatively, if Evil Stepmother had known the names I have set aside for my future children, she would have "stolen" one of those. It's what she's like. In the end, she invented a weird pronunciation of a relatively normal name, and now greatly enjoys loudly correcting people and/or throwing public tantrums when people get it wrong.😅
I too was raised in an alcoholic family , both parents, I will never have drinking in my home . I have seen how much it can destroy people and the violence it can bring with it ,no if the party is in my home then my rules !
Definitely on the alcohol one, I’d argue more information is necessary. As someone who likes making cocktails (not much of a drinker, but I like playing around with it as an ingredient and trying new things), there are certainly some people I would gladly have over for a few drinks, and some where I would hide the contents of the liquor cabinet altogether, purely on the basis on how much they drink and how they handle themselves while drunk. One side of my family is very prone to alcoholism and that is a side I would not want getting sloshed and causing havoc in my house.
Given the OP’s opinion toward alcohol in general and her verbiage, though, it seems less like the family causes havoc with alcohol, and more that she just has strong opinions about it in general, probably fueled by her experiences with her alcoholic father. Plus I still disagree with her ultimate decision - I would personally make it clear and apparent that it’d be a dry party if it’s at my house from the get go, and let them decide if they want to throw it elsewhere long before the conflict comes to a head. I wouldn’t force it because it’s not my place to do so.
People have every right to ban whatever they want from their homes. OP who banned alcohol is NTA it's the rest of the family for both not wanting to respect her and then creating a party behind her back.
I completely understand your positions on the second query, but I do disagree. I think that people are allowed to have a dry party if they like. I do drink alcohol, but I would certainly never complain about not being able to drink somewhere, and it's not necessary to have a good time. My parents have never drunk alcohol on Christmas, and I would never insist on drinking around them, as it would make them uncomfortable. There are many things that don't apply in this example, but I don't think alcohol is such an important thing to have. Same with your vegetarian example, I'm biased because I'm vegan, but it would deeply upset me if I was having people over for dinner, let folks know that I was making vegan food (I would take care to make things they liked and could eat) and people brought meat with them, I think that would be very disrespectful. I think with these you have to take it as a case-by-case thing. Since she (the Reddit user) said she had experience with alcoholism, it seems like she would be adversely affected by drunk people around her, and she's allowed to have that boundary.
I agree with that. I’d add, that to be honest if I was asking someone to not bring alcohol or meat and they insisted on doing so, I would probably mostly cut the person out of my life. Especially when it comes to such strong ethical and emotional decisions (and having usually talked to them about the topic before) i see it as hugely disrespectful and tbh I’m at a point in life where if people can’t respect me I don’t have time for that. Then again, not everyone has that choice.
I strongly agree with this comment! 👍 If she's hosting she can set that boundary 👍 and if people choose to not attend, that's okay too... They also have that choice. I do however think that the alternative party with alcohol hosted at the same time is an A-hole move from the SIL.
Agreed. The host gets to decide what kind of party they’re hosting. It would be profoundly disrespectful for a guest to insist on bringing a drug that caused the host childhood trauma.
@@merlyncharlesnieto I'm 100% with you. Every vegan I know has a vegan household, and you are not welcome there if you bring any kind of animal cruelty related product into the home.
No one will die if they don't drink alcohol for a single day, unless of course they're actually a raging alcoholic.
@OdinsSage that's not quite true. A severe alcoholic can die from withdrawal, and that can start in few hours.
Drinking one: NTA if people knew not to smoke/wear shoes in my house then not an issue, people would respect it. Harm here is trauma to op from her father's alcoholism. Fyi I am veggie and provide choice and we do drink, but if I said no, my family would respect that and not arrange another effing party behind my back!
I would never accept people bringing alcohol or meat into my home, if that’s one of my boundaries. But then, people who can’t deal with that are not part of my friend circle in the first place.
I wonder if you'd feel the same if people said you're not allowed in their home if you ever bring non-alcoholic, non-meat food into their space. I bet you'd think they were a controlling, judgemtnal prick.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 No. I wouldn't. But I don't think I'd try to be friends with people who chose to only survive on animals and alcohol. That's the point.
And I also wouldn't be friends with people who are so entitled that they think it's ok to force whatever on me. If that's the kind of people you like to surround yourself with - then go on. You do you. There's no reason we have to agree on this.
@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 "oh you brought orange juice and a cake to my house? Well, OJ doesn't have alcohol and cake doesn't have meat, so f+ck off"
What a bizarre take lol
Personally I find it sad that some people think they can't have a good time whilst sober (coming from someone who doesn't drink). My family is unfortunately a part of the category of people who sometimes believe that no grog = no fun. Not always, but sometimes.
I love that the acronym for “Am I the a**hole?” is AITA which means father in Basque
😂😂 it means fence in Finnish
😂
First one, definitely the husband is the AH. Also, surely they could have an agreement like you explain. If his parents expect her to make them a special breakfast then they are also the AH. It's family, why can't people just treat each other with respect?
There are 2 options,
1. Husband makes them breakfast and cleans up.
2. They understand it is just to meet and there wont be a breakfast.
But I'm guessing he and his parents expect her to do everything
Second one, saw that elsewhere too. Can't believe reddit voted her the AH there. No. The SIL is the AH big time and a big baby. Husband is too. But I disagree about the OP even if she was judgemental about it. Her experience with an alcoholic father obviously causes a lot of painful memories so I do not see it as the same as vegetarian food and meat
Had notice the OP on the second one mentioned they drink quite a bit in going through bottles of wine and alcohol. In this case I would feel the same as the OP. It is clear that the family isn't just chilling with a couple of drinks for the holiday. No kidding what drama is released or created because of it. If the family really needed an alcohol blitz, they could the day before or after.
If you can't go one day without booze for the comfort of others, you have a problem.
I don't drink and I have seen how bad alcoholism can be. There is a part of me that thinks its odd that people are bothered by a party with no alcohol. That said OP comes across so judgemental that she loses whatever ground she might have had.
Shaaba, I think you missed the key line in #2: "I hate drinking[,] I have never drank[,] my father was an alcoholic". Sure, their view of drinking as childish is... weird. (Maybe they meant the kind of drunk-off-your-ass drinking that college kids do?) I wish we had more information, and I wish OP were less judgmental and more upfront about their rules for hosting Christmas, but at the end of the day they have every right to want their home to remain alcohol-free.
For the meat eating, many people fail to consider that (ethical) vegans don't refrain from eating meat because they don't like it or something, but because they are morally against it. In that context it would be pretty rude for guests to bring meat. No one is bringing meat into my house and preparing it my kitchen, I'm sorry but you can eat meat any other time of the year, and my plant-based cooking is good enough to satisfy any meat-eater that doesn't have their head stuck up their ass lol. So yeah point being, I didn't like that comparison much :P
As a child of an alcoholic father too, I think OP has every right to ban alcohol from their home. I get triggered (with childhood trauma events) while around intoxicated people, there's a good chance OP does too. I don't think people who don't/didn't have addicts as caregivers will ever truly understand how "innocent drinking" isn't innocent to those with trauma. (Tho I do think OP went about explaining the ban in an immature/judgemental way. They weren't a CAPITAL ass hole but they were a little bit of one.)
It's their house, and alcohol is very different to most dietary preferences. NTA.
Oooo the alcohol one is the first disagreement I've had with Shaba.
I drink alcohol, but if I wanted to host a drug free event then people either come and stay sober, or don't come at all. People being drunk will still change the atmosphere, so it will effect me.
OP might have gotten more love with a better attitude, but I definitely think she’s got the rights to decide if drugs aren't allowed on her event, that should be respected. If people can't stay a day without drugs (especially Christmas that has given a lot of children trauma due to alcohol) then they can decline the invitation, but they can drink literally every other day of the year so it sounds kinda like an addiction problem.
I struggle with the alcohol one, particularly if someone either is a recovering alcoholic or had direct alcoholic relatives, I can totally understand why they'd not want it in the house. Was that made clear earlier on, unclear, so yeah, op is a bit of an ah. However, the sister who set up something at the same date/time is also bit of an ah, set it for a different time or day before/after op's, so that family have the option to partake in one or both.
The frozen name one is so tricky, I agree that OP completely went the wrong way with it. however I would say I think OP should try talking to the couple again in a reasonable manner to try and sort this out. Names can be very important to people and here's my thoughts. If these two children from different mums are having names to 'force' them to be sisters, that could end up really bad. What if something happens between these two sides of the family and the sisters are torn apart, imagine how much messier that would be if they are NAMED after two characters who reconciled....and then IRL these two sisters don't. Also it is kind of weird to me that this new mum is like, "if I name my kid Anna I'm appealing to OP", that seems a little off.
I would encourage OP to say something like "I'm sorry for how I acted, I let my emotions get the better of me. But these names mean a lot to me so could you consider naming your child something else?" I think that's a fair thing to at least request if it means so much to OP (The couple can refuse of course). OP could also say something like "What if you considered names similar to Anna but aren't exactly that?" Annabeth, Annabelle, Anny, that kind of thing. That would still capture some of what the new wife is looking for to connect the kids, but I think it also respects OPs desire to have the name Anna free to use if she really wants to.
Remember that Ex wife is in a difficut situation where a new wife has essentially taken her place in husband's life. That is always going to be difficult so I think that makes me sympathetic to her. Also also, I feel with blended families it's SO important to let the kids have distinct identities. Thats kinda why this gives me the ick, because New Wife does not seem to be sensitive to OP's connection to these names. OP could have easily been thinking this for many years and that she'll always have the option to name two kids Elsa and Anna, and it could be quite confronting to suddenly have someone directly in the family take that future name you planned away.
I think the OP’s father being an alcoholic has to be taken into account
I stayed in an AirBnB a few years back, they were veggie & asked me not to cook meat or eat meat in their house. Why tf would I be like well I'm free to do what I want so I will bring meat in here.. that's so disrespectful! I'm in their house?!?! Just because I think it wouldn't affect them doesn't mean they don't think it will affect them & they think it would so I respect that
i started avoiding the AITA reddit a long time ago because it stressed me out but your videos are pretty chill and soothing so i was binging them today, and im going to add a comment even though this is an old video
hearing the alcohol one, reading the comments below and hearing you talk about it, really shocked me. i grew up without basically anyone drinking; my mom was an alcoholic long ago and i dont remember, her dad died of alcoholism, my aunt hadd issues; a lot of stuff, and my dad didnt drink in my prescence. the idea that alcohol is an "ingrained" "important" or "festive" thing to do is straight up bizarre to me. like, i get that she was a little mean calling them childish but i guess im the only one who sort of agrees with the sentiment, if not the meaning. I really dont think drinking is comparable to being a vegetarian/vegan. even when people arent like, smashing tables / blackout drunk, being the only sober person in a room full of tipsy people can be uncomfortable and alienating. it does change peoples behavior and change their interactions with you. if im socializing with someone who's a little drunk, i dont know if theyre laughing at a joke because they think its funny or if they're just drunk. i have social anxiety which worsens this, yeah, and not every sober person has these issues but yeah. it feels like everyone is pretending that drinking either does nothing or makes you blackout, but like... it does in fact change peoples behavior beyond that. i do think she was too judgy but.... i think people are underselling how alcohol actually changes people behavior.
i wonder if theres also some cultural difference here, no offense to the UK but ive heard from other americans that drinking and hangovers are treated much more casually over there? like, even people who drank moderately in the US going over there and being surprised at how different things were.
My house my rules. If I say no alcohol, take it or leave it. But if people don't come, that is a consequence I need to deal with.
I kind of agree with the op for the alcohol one. They do sound really judgy, and I can understand the rest of the family being a little annoyed or bummed out about a dry Christmas, however it does feel a little childish to boycote the event because of no alcohol. I get the feeling that there is more to avoiding the dinner than just no alcohol
I think it's a little weird to tell OP she can name her someday daughter Anna as well, since what would that be like for Elsa? She'd have two half sisters named Anna. Confusing much?
Right?
Also, even if there's only one sibling, she most definitely should not be named Anna unless you want both of these children to be ridiculed for the rest of their lives.
@@carr0760 They're pretty names though and I think the people who would ridicule them would find another reason to if they had different names. Bullies will be bullies no matter what so people should name their kids whatever they want.
@@ohood1788 which is precisely why parents should consider that and not make it even easier for them.
Also, Anna's name will always be mispronounced if she's in Canada or the US (which is the majority of people who post on AITA). It won't be read like the way they say it in the movie.
@@carr0760 I think they'd know how to pronounce it once they find out her sister's named Elsa lol.
@@ohood1788 yes, but I'm talking about reading it on an attendance sheet or an email without any other context. She would be living her life as an individual, not always in tandem with her sister.
For the name one; I's possible that the ex-husband's wife has another reason for choosing that name, but I don't think it's likely. OP hasn't said anything negative about her, so I'm assuming that this is the only (major) thing she's done that OP didn't like. I do think it's a bit strange that the husband decided to go along with it even before talking to OP though. OP said that although they aren't best friends, they still stay in touch so I would think that he'd bring up how personal that name was to OP. Also, if the wife really wants the daughters to be sisters she should also consider talking to the OP, the mother of her child's older sister, about the name as well. So far it seems like the ex is the only one talking with OP. Of course, I don't think OP is right, in the end it's their child's name not OP's.
For the Anna/Elsa one, I agree that it's sweet that the new girlfriend thought of that. My (half) sister and I have rhyming names and there was never any drama around that lol. However, I disagree that OP should just name her future child Anna too. Imagine being a kid with two sisters who have the same name! I'm a firm believer that there's no reason half siblings shouldn't be as close as full siblings, so having two half siblings with the same name might create an odd disconnect in the family (like having to clarify which parent's Anna it is whenever they're talking about one).
Totally agree! One of the sisters would inevitably end up with a nickname like Anna and Nana. It would be too confusing!
for the alcohol one, i don’t think people are understanding of the fact that op had an alcoholic father and alcohol could be a trigger for them. they likely had to be around alcohol (esp at christmas) for YEARSSSS and now that they get to host they might wanna make themselves comfy in a way that doesn’t disrupt anyone else that strongly. yeah it may be more fun w alcohol, but you can still have fun whilst accommodating the fact that alcohol could be touchy for op.
For the child naming, I also thought it was sweet. Coparenting is hard, I am honestly in disbelief that the new woman was so on board their daughters being close sisters like in the movie. It's a wonderful sentiment that should be celebrated. People gatekeep baby names so much it's ridiculous. They should have involved the OP in their decision though, it might have made her less reactive.
It won't be sweet when those kids have to grow up and live their lives being ridiculed for their names.
@@carr0760 for sure, I'm not saying I think cutesy matching names are sweet. I don't know why anyone does that to their kids. That wasn't the point of the video though.
IDK, lots of steparents want to "win" over the bio parent/partner's ex and will go to extreme lengths to do so. It could be less about the two girls' relationship and more about stepmum wanting OP's daughter to choose the family unit with the matching sister in it, or even just as a display of how she's the one that gave hubby the complete set and now OP never can.
But while this could have been meant as a genuinely sweet gesture, I can't help but feel that if it was they'd back down rather use a name that isn't all that meaningful to them knowing it would cause conflict in their stepdaughter's family situation, regardless of whether the conflict was justified.
I feel like it would be kinda weird for op to have a child names Anna after her ex named his daughter Anna. It would be weird because then Elsa would have two siblings with the same name, there's also a chance the ex could get mad at her and accuse her of copying him by naming her child the same thing.
If you are hosting Christmas, you are allowed to say no booze. If it’s her turn to host, the family should politely deal with it for one year. They can leave when they want. The sister in law hosting an alternative party is so beyond rude. Veganism and drinking are not at the same level of personal choice. Alcohol is mind altering and changes behavior, eating vegan doesn’t.
Regarding the alcohol story she is totally in the right to say we don’t drink in my house, just like people with allergies can ban there alergins
RE OP hosting an alcohol free party: Agree on the smoking. I am a smoker, I smoke in my house, but I absolutely won’t smoke in someone else’s house or near them (of even in my house when they come over and they have a big problem with it). The alcohol issue: sounds to me like OP is unaware of her trauma from growing up around alcohol abuse. She is looking down on ALL people who drink and calls it childish, which is an odd take. I also grew up around alcohol abuse and it has made me very critical of drinking behaviour, and I KNOW that I can be irrationally judgemental sometimes. But the amount of times people have tried to force drinks on me after telling them time and time again that I don’t want it is absolutely ridiculous. This is also why I think the social acceptance of alchohol is far bigger than of smoking. I do drink alcohol sometimes, usually 1 or 2 drinks in my own house on the weekend. I hate the feeling of being even slightly intoxicated and I have a low tolerance. Being around people who drink a lot stresses me out, especially when I don’t know how they behave when drunk.
It seems to me OP is trying to justify her anxiety around drinkers by harsh judgement. Lots of people can drink responsibly and just enjoy and have fun. The way she explains it, the people who were supposed to come over, many might cross a line that she’s not comfortable with, and she has experienced stress/anxiety/fear while being around those people. I can relate to this 100%. But she needs to become aware of her issue and realize her judgement is shortsighted and her expectations are unrealistic.
And there are many ways around this: 1. I have eliminated problematic drinkers from my life where possible 2. I always celebtrate my birthday on a morning with coffee and cake 3. I rarely host, when I’m a guest I can easily leave when I feel uneasy 4. I don’t do work parties 5. when i do host, it’s often brunch (either way my house it too small for large dinners) 6. buy limited amounts of alcohol to the number of guests so they can’t go wild - bonus, they leave early :P
As a pescatarian who’s also autistic I wouldn’t be happy with people brining meat to my house. Specifically if it’s raw and they for some reason expected to cook it in my house for whatever reason (Dont know who would but you never know) then I’d probably just try to sent them home because I don’t want the bacteria of said meat in my fridge or cooking equipment. Not to mention the smell, I wouldn’t be able to stand it it would give me a social overload. If they bring it cooked I don’t care. But if its raw for whatever reason then no I’m not comfortable with that
I don’t drink bc I can’t medically, I always feel left out and wish I could just hang around my family while they are sober. Especially when every big gathering involves alcohol it becomes isolating.
Not the a****** for the alcohol There's every right to say no alcohol I have the same rule at my house I have the same roll from my wedding if you can't go one day without alcohol you can't come
I think the perspective that's worth considering on the alcohol issue is would your verdict be different if OPs *reasons* for not drinking were different. Like, I think most people would think it was weird and rude if you insisted on taking alcohol to Eid celebrations at a Muslim person's house, or Easter at a Methodist person's house. We would accept no alcohol as being a hard limit for religious reasons, why should non-religious moral reasons be any different?
Vegetarianism is an interesting parallel, because while I don't think "Is it okay if I bring a meat dish" is an unreasonable request, "No, this is a vegetarian household" is a perfectly reasonable response. Again, you wouldn't take a beef curry to a Vaisaiki celebration, and just because a decision isn't religious, doesn't mean it isn't moral.
Obviously it would be different if you were going to someone else's house. A vegetarian taking umbridge at meat being served in an omnivores house is being a prat, but the omnivore demanding meat in a vegetarian home is being just as much of a prat.
I also think it's worth considering how much of people's responses on that one are driven by the cultural ideas we have around alcohol in most english-speaking countries. I am teetotal for medical reasons, and it's been eye-opening to see how genuinely weird and sometimes even unpleasant people are about the idea of someone not drinking. It's so ingrained in our culture that people will demand you have a 'valid' reason to not drink (the only valid reasons, assuming you're not talking to the worst kind of bigot, seem to be religious or a very specific list of medical conditions, it being a free choice, or even medical reasons deemed 'minor' are most definitely not acceptable to an awful lot of people). Although vegitarianism is a pretty good comparison in a lot of ways, I really don't think OP would have got the same pushback if that was the issue at hand, but because alcohol is a big part of our culture, people are blindsided by the idea of non-drinkers and tend to get defensive and invalidate that choice.
About the vegan example in the first story: Both me and my partner are vegan and when we are hosting I expect (and inform) the guest to not bring animal products. As I am ethically vegan animal products are for me a symbol of harm and suffering and I really, really (!) don't want it in my house. In my view it is more similar to the racist example, as I don't want to witness eating products of harm in the safety of my home, especially as I don't have a choice anywhere else. After all, veganism is a moral stand not just a diet preference 😉
Tell the first husband that sure, HE can do breakfast, since HE made that commitment. HE can clean the house after the kids open presents, HE can make breakfast and clean up afterwards. You agreed to lunch, and I'm assuming already will be doing all the work associated, so he can take care of his own commitment. If he's not interested in that? Then it's HIS commitment to cancel.
3:20 - I feel if I was the grandparent here, who last minute decided "yes I want to see my grandkids before we leave on our trip", then I'd, IDK, offer to bring over some muffins or cinnamon rolls and just hang out casually (maybe even playing with the kids while mum and dad prep lunch). But if that was the offer, it doesn't sound like the husband communicated it well!
@18:05 Actually yes, someone would. You got to remember even if you would never, doesn't mean someone else wouldn't. There are toxic people out there who would name their child something just to spite someone. Hell there are people out there that will get pregnant just to spite someone, they don't even want the kid, they just want to shove it in someone else's face. Sad but hard facts...
With the alcohol thing, I can understand both sides. On the one hand, i don't think going the day without drinking is a big deal at all, for me it's not a massive part of christmas day itself anyway. But also, if you set a rule like that, people are also allowed to decide they don't want to go, and it's christmas, so they'll obviously do something else instead. They're literally following your rule "If you come, you can't drink", so they're not coming.
I agree that the choice is 'come and don't drink or don't come', if they chose not to come then they shouldn't have decided to have their own party and disrespectfully invite OP
Giving me serious Bender vibes - "I'm going to have my own party, with blackjack and hookers!"
@@UvThe1st exactly. If the sister didn't throw her own party, then they wouldn't have had the choice to go somewhere else. If you don't want to go to the party you've been invited to, you simply stay home. You don't throw a competing party and invite all of the same people.
They are surely allowed to not attend. But they are assholes if they don't. To reject someone at Christmas because they don't want you to drink while at their home is just beyond childish, showing she was right all along. It's not even like you have to spend an entire 24 hour period dry!
@@SplotPublishing exactly!
I get your point of letting people bring meat if they want to and if it's a barbecue situation I'd be with you. But if I'm cooking for people and they just assume my food won't satisfy them in one way or another so they bring meat to my house even though I am providing a whole meal I think that's a little weird and also somewhat rude. If I'm hosting and everyone is providing something or we're cooking together it would also be fine like with the barbecue. But adding meat to a veggie meal someone cooked just for the sake of having meat, I would not be very pleased with that :D
that last story did not go how I expected, I thought she'd be upset because Elsa is a nice name on its own but with a sister named Anna its pretty clearly a reference to frozen (eg my sister is called Mary so when my mum was pregnant with my brother she shut down the name Joseph immediately)
I absolutely have relatives I wouldn't let drink in my home. It isn't about the alcohol but the behavior.
We have had dozens of family holidays without alcohol with a large family - because I was forced to tolerate drunken asshole family members for holidays when I was a child - but my kids don't have to.
No one ever called me a $lut at 15 because they ate some meat
I'm gonna have to go with not the a****** most specifically because this is after a long parade of a****** moves of dragging her to events. Where people drink heavily. There are two uber a******* in this scenario and one is the husband and the other is the sister in law who went behind op's back instead of having a discussion
My father is an alcoholic who quit 6 years ago. In respect to him we never have alcohol at home and do not offer alcohol when we host parties. The issue has never occured, but we'd probably not be too happy if others would come to us with alcohol either, but we definitely wouldn't be super bitchy about it. I think most people understand and are automatically respectful. But when other family members host, there's usually always alcohol involved, at least wine or champagne or something. It's their decision, so we're fine with it. I think a little respect and consideration from and for everyone in our family is all we need for everything to work fine.
As for the naming, I'm always careful naming after specific fandoms etc. because you never know what might come up, completely destroying the positive memories. It would be a shame then to be attached to that negative name. If it's just a name with no intentional connection, even if it happens to be identical with a problematic person or something, it's not the same in my opinion. Idk. In the end that's just my stance. OP can of course do as pleased but yeah, that threat is rather concerning.
I agree the op in the Alcohol one is a little judgey, but if they don't want Alcohol in their house that's a rule that others should respect. Growing up my Nan was very no-drinking, as her ex husband was an alcoholic, my mom shares the same view. So any events held at Nan's house or Mum's house were no alcohol allowed. But they don't go out of the way to shame others who may want to drink, just ask them to not do it at their houses...
The lady not wanting alcohol at her event is doing this with her family. She mentioned HER dad was an alcoholic. That's why she doesn't like people drinking. I don't think she's the asshole.
For the second one: my house, my rules, especially if it is trauma related like that one. I can relate pretty strongly, because my Dad was also an alcoholic and seeing alcohol often makes me me feel unsafe. You don't want that on a beautiful holiday in your home, were you want and nees to feel safe at all times.
I also wouldn't allow someone to bring meat to my vegan christmas party. They can have meat any other day.
For the alcohol one I don't think the OP is the AH even though their wording was a little off. The family could just come eat dinner and open presents and then go drink somewhere later. It does kinda sound like they are hinting that they might get a little out of hand with their drinking (multiple bottles). Maybe I'm bias because my family is so large we always do Christmas at an alcohol free venue so I don't get why you would need to drink to have fun on Christmas.
Your example of the vegetarian Christmas: I am not vegetarian, but I have many friends who are when we go out to eat together I usually choose vegetarian options to be courteous to them. They would not mind if I ordered meat, but it's one meal. It's not a big deal.
I think with the alcohol one, the big thing people aren’t picking up on is that OP mentioned her dad was an alcoholic, so this has most likely skewed her view of alcohol. She is expecting people to drink for the same reasons, and behave in the same way as her dad. She needs therapy to realise the difference between enjoying a drink responsibly and being an alcoholic, and to stop judging other people who drink based on her alcoholic dad.
For the alcohol one, I feel like a lot of drama could have been avoided if OP explained her reasoning for wanting no alcohol. The rest of the family may have understood or tried to come up with a compromise. But also, we don’t know the family. Maybe they get super rowdy, and she doesn’t want to be around that, which would be totally valid. Her “grow up” attitude toward alcohol was quite unnecessarily judgmental though, IMO.