@DragonOfQin The Chinese weapon you're thinking of is single-wheeled, smaller munitions, and functions in motion. The Korean Hwacha is a two-wheeled, large munitions, and stationary. The two are not the same, nor are they rip-off of each other. It would be like saying that M109 Paladin is basically the same design as an IAV Stryker. The two served very different functions in a war, and the designs look similar only when looked at superficially (have wheels, carts, and exploding arrows).
@Hananim91 militarily it might be a good standard for sure. However, it doesn't mean the soldiers were well-trained for combat. As I said in the beginning and in the end the Song military was corrupted, no soldiers were actually ready to battle. Plus, Song people were very very rich.. so as I said they don't need to fight while it is very economical for nomads to fight Song. In fact, Southern Song almost win all the time against the Jurchens so watever...
@KoriSenbay In fact, the only record that states Hambo is a Kor is "满洲源流考", well it is considered a good book to study relationships. However, the book's main purpose is to glorify the Manchus' past history, and trying to cover some facts. According to facts that is known today, the Hambo "Kim" is merely a creation out of no where. This story is not based on any of the previous records, therefore, I would say it is anything but true. If it is based on something it is predicted to be rumors
@KoriSenbay Third it is Sinitic-origin Chin who said Hambo is Kor first, but at that time Jurchen is a vassal to Kor, later Jurchen became vassal of Liao(遼) dynasty, therefore "女真虽旧属高丽，不复相通者久矣" meaning although Jurchen once were vassal to Koryo, but they no longer contact for a long time, according to official record "金史". Then Kor historian recorded this "Hambo is a Kor monk named “今俊”" in"高麗史" ，but even he is doubtful about this so he recorded "或又雲meaning somebody told him this as alternative.
@KoriSenbay Then "滿洲源流考", a book that is trying to glorify manchus' past, further expanded this and said Hambo is Kor, his last name is "Kim" and Jin dynasty is derived from the surname "Kim". This story is created out of no where, and its intentions r very apparent. In fact, this is only source u can draw upon, becuz all other resources can be seen as supporting him as a Jurchen living in Korea.
@KoriSenbay and also it is just reasonable that "大金" is a continuation of "金", I don't know how do u relate it to this topic. And this "满洲源流考" r u sure it is done by the sixth emperor? I've always had doubt on this.... I believe this book is written during the time of " 乾隆", it is written by two Manchu beaurocrats, but I have strong doubt that “乾隆“actually said this..... the reason for writing this book is to show how long glorious Manchus' history is. It also covers some facts at same time
@Hananim91 And actually majority of the "Jurchen" troops were actually composed of Song ppl. And actually it is Southern Song that broke the alliance with Mongols first
@canadianfirzen According to the official histories of the Jin and Qing the ancestor Hanpu was a lesser member of the Silla royal family who's descendants unified the Jurchen. For further information see "Hanpu" in wikipedia
@Hananim91 Song's status is merely political.... It's very complicated and I will just boil it down to Song emperor don't want to unify with Northern China. The military system is very very corrupted that's why Song soldiers don't even have any combat ability in the beginning. However, overall the Song won 70% of all battles against Jurchen Jin. Jin was never able to conquer Song at all. In fact, Song often had the chance to retake Northern China often being recalled by believers of peace
@KoriSenbay The official history "The history of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is probably "金史" as I know it becuz it is the only official one. The book doesn't state ancestor of Jin dynasty as Hambo "Kim",it only states that he "从高丽来" meaning he migrated out of Koryo, but it doesn't tell what group of ppl he belongs,nor does it tell his last name is "Kim". According to Jin dynasty's own record "祖宗实录", Hambo was a Jurchen that lived in Koryo, well again it is based on legends, but Jurchen's own legend
@canadianfirzen Wikipedia isn't the ultimate source, it's just the most convenient one for me to give to you on the topic because it covers it extensively. However if you take a look at the references list you can find more authoritative sources. I initially found it difficult to believe the notion since it doesn't seem to be well-known, but having taken the time to research the topic (out of curiosity) it seems to be how the Jin and Qing regarded themselves
true. By that time, the Europeans had better cannons because they costantly tested their weaponry. Besides, most of the conquest done by Europe was economic anyway
Korea is always so innovative and effective.10,000 years of history right there, that is why Korea is still standing strong as top 10 economy/world power despite being split in half!!! the UN failed but it's all okay lol thank you to UN troops
@KoriSenbay .... I am srry the history book "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" (金史)is not written by mongols. Every dynasty have 史官 meaning history recorder. They record history for the next dynasty to edit and made into books. Therefore, "金史" is actually written by Jurchen, but edited by both Chin and mongol into books.
@KoriSenbay what I am saying is the source u've given me is not really considered correct. The "name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty" is not based on any of the previous records, it is probably made up or derived from rumors and legends. Also, there were rumors in Korea back then that states the founder of Jurchen empire was a monk in Korea. Therefore, that record is probably derived from rumors like that.
@KoriSenbay it is Manchus who said their ancestor is Kor, but it is actually build upon nothing. Don't just take what u need, and disregard all the stuff that r disproving it.
@Hananim91 I won't say conquered becuz most of states I guessed that r in your mind(if u know any), flowed in when China had internal conflict, and then they were forced to learn Chin language; changed from nomads to peasants; setting up laws that state that you have to intermarry with Chin; and eventually integrated into Chin society. I don't see that's very conquering to me.
@myschwettyballs Uhh dude, it was a siege met with an assault without any plans. Any ranged weapon would've done the trick. Especially how Japanese soldiers were not adept at defeating ranged attacks as they lacked any effective means of stopping projectiles, such as Shields. The 40 hwachas is a nice show for terrorising enemies, but like all ranged weapons, thats really all it does
@KoriSenbay ok last time I said it out of memory, I found a fault in it, so I will resay it again to make it right. "满洲源流考”is done in "乾隆" period, which I always thought to be the 5th emperor becuz I always leave out Nurhachi. However, I still have strong doubts that the emperor wrote this... R u trying to mess around with the logic? Just becuz it is done during "乾隆" period，it doesn't mean that it is wrote by 乾隆 or said by 乾隆. And theonly official history should be "清史".
of course - hangugeo is different from nihongo but both are learning english for use as a common language in negotiations so it can be done. btw just enjoy the video
@KoriSenbay according to official record “辽史”(this part recorded by Jurchen Jin dynasty)， "Jin"（金）dynasty's name is taken because Liao(遼) dynasty's name means 镔铁 meaning wrought iron, and 金 means gold which doesn't corrupt like wrought iron. "Jin" is derived from Kor last name "Kim" is recorded in the same book “满洲源流考“，it is nothing but a creation out of no where. This book is only trying to glorify Manchus' past. a lot of its content is merely Koreation.....
@KoriSenbay First of all, last time we talked about the Jurchen Kim. I pointed out ur source, but I didn't finish. The source has some problems, becuz it is not based on any previous sources and is created out of nowhere. Therefore, majority just disregard it as official history. So the Jurchen Kim thing(it should be Jin not Kim) is not recognized widely. Secondly, Jin dynasty didn't conquer Song. I don't know wether u r talking about North Song or Song as a whole. Song was not conquered
@NastyGreaser Battle_of_Haengju Type this on wikipedia. Look at the force strength and the decisive winner of the battle. There is only one explanation for the casualties on the Japanese side. Overall seabattles won it for Korea. But that doesn't mean Korea lost battles on land.
@Hananim91 let alone the nomads' advantage over the Song foot Soldiers. 1. China is full of open plains and no mountain ranges to strengthen their defence. 2. Southern China had no horses. 3. From North to South it is warmer and from South to North it is colder, etc. There r a lot of advantages that the nomads have over the Song army, and the biggest difference is one needs to fight and one doesn't. With the GDP produced by 2 counties out of 1000, you can actually buy peace then why fight?
@KoriSenbay I am not making them morons. The book tried to cover facts like Ming dynasty's rule and 建州三衛 etc and etc. It is considered a good book for studying relationships and Northeastern ethnics, but it makes up stories like Hampu Kim or Kim dynasty, which is completely bizarre... How do u know what sources they drew upon?
@dsk It is pretty highly unlikely Chin pretended to be kor and stir trouble on the internet... anyways the history channel of Korea actually also make claims that r bizzare.. for example, Jin dynasty is formed by Korean?
@KoriSenbay“满洲源流考" is making up a story that Jurchens' ancestor is Kor, and Jin dynasty's name derived from "Kim". They wish it to be true becuz the reason for writing that book to glorify Manchus' long past, and trying to cover some facts. However, it does not mean it is true according to jurchen Jin dynasty's“宗祖实录" their ancestor is a Jurchen living in Koryo... U can't say what they wished to make u think is the truth...
@dsk ya that's y i think wiki is somewat biased... becuz it emphaizes on one point of view, or else it contradict itself. It doesn't really show all the arguments about it
@Hananim91 as I said real things are actually a bit different, and politics is dark. And things are actually different from what you wish. The ethnic tension is not as strong as what most ppl think. And I won't comment on Tibetans and Uighurs as things would drag extremely long and we won't agree with each other forever, becuz I know the story from both sides, not just the somewat inaccurate info from the west. And that doesn't have anything related to the topics we were focusing on before
@KoriSenbay Jin dynasty did rule northern China, but u said by 1126AD they already started ruling northern China, that is not true, however, becuz they r mostly illiterate they were unable to rule China, so they founded a dynasty called "Chi", whose emperor is a former Song dynasty official.
@KoriSenbay Ya I know what Korean historians had suggested, and in fact I've seen KBS's documentary on Jin dynasty. And I am actually literally smiling and out of words. It makes me go |||v__v. It is filled with nationalism. I am not saying that Chin scholars don't have nationalism. The diff is Chin call them minority ethnic of China, but Kor nationalists call all of those ppl in that region Kor, even though their passports clearly have a letter "China" on them...
@Hananim91 my point is don't be so shallow in terms of nationality and ethnic. It is a Kor idea not very modern. I mean I know some Kor are not satisfied with their territory etc.Well, I can understand that. That's why I see all kinds of Kor nationalists spreading rumors and hate towards other countries like China and Japan, or trying to lure the foreigners into hating these countries with their over-simpled and inaccurate info. That's why I take time & explain to them a different perspective
reason they used this over long bow is that for it's bust fire and because u don't need any training to use this. but on top of that, scary and awesomeness probably is big factor. no wonder why they named this 'shin gi jun' (arrow of God)
@Hananim91 He is not considered hero of Han Chinese. He is considered hero who fought Jin. China don't promote ethnic tension the way the Kor do. Kor is single ethnic so talking to them require patience. They just don't understand what countries with multi-races or multi-ethnic are like.
1:03-!:11 199 rockets in 8 seconds= ~1500 rpm= 2 machine guns! (may not be accurate, it looked like the did multiple takes...) I wish they put water balloons filled w/ red food coloring on the dummies to show damage when they got hit! Imagine HUNDREDS of those weapons...
@KoriSenbay You should watch "Manchu history - 1( A rebuttal against Korean Nationalist's fabrication ) " and "Crazy Korean Nationalists " here on youtube.
@KoriSenbay culture, living style, written language, level of civilization, etc.... Kor is more similar China than to Jurchens... if that is political, I wonder why would Jurchen not be political?
@dsk yes maybe I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that many young Kor nationalist r saying those kinda of things, throughout the entire web nationalist Kor ppl r spreading those, can u say they r not?... it's not that I am supporting verbal harassment from the Chin or siding with them, and it is not that i am too biased to see the truth or watever. It is kinda like an obligation to fight back. There shouldn't be just one voice rite?
@Xana6637 I don't treat history like a myth, and I agree the history belongs to the country. So would Korz stop their racism like: "Korz taught Chin how to cultivate crops", "Korz (the northerners) beat up China", "Korz were DongYi who invented Chin characters and taught Chin how to write", and some Korz were like: "Korz invented go chess, becuz if Chin invented it, then y is Chin bad in it?"..... These r seriously flawed arguments done by Kor ppl.
@canadianfirzen That's not the koreans "claiming" anything .. that's the Jin and Qing official histories speaking. If it's not to your liking then it's unfortunate, but attacking koreans won't change that.
@Hananim91 Trust me a lot of these tensions are very political, it is very hard to meet a mutual agreement. Becuz ppl r brought up this way, and they will always fail to question the very knowledge that are engraved into their mind. Both Kor and Chin r raised up this way, the educators always give you a perspective of other nations keeps harrasing us, and we've been humiliated. These are not always true, it is just a perspective that the nation want you to believe in.
@KoriSenbay Jurchen didn't know how to rule at first, therefore, they installed a dynasty called "大齐", later after discovering "Chi" couldn't meet their expectations it is when they started to rule, and of course still using former Chin officials and system. And u r just mixing with logic here cuz Song is not refounded. Southern Song is just a continuation of Northern Song. The ppl r still there. It is just a change of emperor, territory, and capital, but Song was never annhilated.
@Xana6637 let alone the accuracy of the arguments, but the racism in Kor arguments r very apparent. And from what I studied, Korz started this racism first, and Chin fought back. If u want to argue with me, I would can show you some. I don't hate Kor and I don't think I have bias towards Kor. In addition, I am Kor fan as well, but what I am saying is some of Korz r so sick that i really would want to refute them
@KoriSenbay It is funny that when talking about relationships, nationalist korz always try to bring together the Altaic family and try to corner China, yet when talking about nomadic barbarians and culture, Korz try to state how special and different their culture is... Altaic family is actually a losely founded family, their cultures are different and their language r actually quite different. Why do nationalists Korz always bring out this actually non-existing altaic "brothership"
@KoriSenbay Can u state all the official records u talked about? Maybe just several? "The Origin of Manchu" = "满洲源流考", so I think I see what ur source is...becuz that is the only source that says Hambo is from Kim family as far as I know. From ur incapability of understanding "满洲源流考", I think u can't even read Chin. Anyways, I am still curious how some Kor nationalists perceive this subject, and wat sources they draw the info from.
@KoriSenbay "Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty " -------------- wow u r completely putting ur prejudice into ur arguments, u r assuming u r right at the first place, and u try to mess around my logic as well... it is very creative. Jurchens never said their ancestor r kor, don't take the mother country thing seriously, becuz Kor during Choson also called China the father country.
@Xana6637 Now, the relationship b/w China and Korea is, China admires Korea's development, BECUZ CHINA DIDN"T DEVELOP THAT WAY. As u know it's a communist thing. China admires Korea, but then China started to learn the arrogant side of Korea recently for both North and South Korean. North and South Korea r pretty arrogant. Especially the North, they will do the craziest stuff that u will ever imagine, keep pushing the limit and boundaries of China.
@myschwettyballs Fact, the Japanese commander was over confident and had no siege plan. Fact, all ranged weapons prior to late muskets were used to terrorise, not necessarily to kill Fact, Japanese soldiers rarely carry shields to battle as it is a sign of cowardice. Conclusion, it isn't much of an attribute for Hwacha to win this battle
@KoriSenbay U kept saying Jurchen "Kim" dynasty conquered "Chin" Song dynasty... R u trying to imply that "Kor" conquered "Chin" again? The invading armies did defeat Northern Song and so Song's capital shifted to the South, and Song's territory shrinked, but Song still exists. U used the word "conquered", it is technically wrong. In 1126AD Jin didn't start to rule China, in fact, they didn't know how to rule China so they founded a dynasty called "Chi".
study sea battles then. any cannons hardly could not attack and sink a ships to bottom then, because cannons had no rifling(too bad hit rate) and cannonballs did not explode and even if swaied not too mach it is difficult to aim. do you know european ships in age of empire?(17th to 19th)if you want to sink ships with cannons in the sea then you need that number of cannons at least. so Turtle ship did not exist ro was not practical.
@canadianfirzen This is the internet, unfortunately there's people masquarading as other nationalities in order to foster bad feelings. This includes pretending to be korean and attacking chinese to stir things up. I would stress again that the PRC had an approval rate of 60+% before all this blew up .. why would then start attacking chinese out of the blue as you think? Consider that the PRC press has a strong hand in propagating these myths, if anything you should be angry at them.
@KoriSenbay oh my god that altaic "brothership" again... do the ppl back at that time have an idea of what "altaic" means? As I said Altaic is loosely founded... if u try that to corner China u r just wrong... and r u actually talking about cavemen period or Jurchen period?
@KoriSenbay Just to correct Jurchen never conquered China twice. Even the Qing dynasty is with the major help from China's own traitors and internal conflict..... and the majority of the land conquered by Qing dynasty is also actually conquered by Han troops....
@KoriSenbay "Kim" is a last name, do last names all mean something? I don't think so for example "Wang"(王) literally means "king", but do u mean ppl with that last name r kings? Wang does not have any meanings as a last name. Ok, Koryo kings' last name is "Wang", and according to some scholars' study with his ancestry, Koryo's king royal family should be Chin. However, did Chin claim Koryo dynasty of Korea is Chin history? So stop claiming Jurchen is kor...
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
@DragonOfQin The Chinese weapon you're thinking of is single-wheeled, smaller munitions, and functions in motion. The Korean Hwacha is a two-wheeled, large munitions, and stationary. The two are not the same, nor are they rip-off of each other.
It would be like saying that M109 Paladin is basically the same design as an IAV Stryker. The two served very different functions in a war, and the designs look similar only when looked at superficially (have wheels, carts, and exploding arrows).
This one was my favourite, an old myth that hasn't been seen for 500 years or more, an even bigger one would be cool to see.
I watched this last night. Fairly impressive. Thanks for posting!
Thanks for posting this, its great!
guys lets not go so political about this and just appreciate the recreation of one of the most interesting siege weapons built by the Koreans.
If I saw this being fired at me back when these were used, I'd be absolutely terrified.
@Hananim91 militarily it might be a good standard for sure. However, it doesn't mean the soldiers were well-trained for combat. As I said in the beginning and in the end the Song military was corrupted, no soldiers were actually ready to battle. Plus, Song people were very very rich.. so as I said they don't need to fight while it is very economical for nomads to fight Song. In fact, Southern Song almost win all the time against the Jurchens so watever...
the hwacha had the same intimidating effect but was more cost-effective.
That is just AMAZING
@KoriSenbay In fact, the only record that states Hambo is a Kor is "满洲源流考", well it is considered a good book to study relationships. However, the book's main purpose is to glorify the Manchus' past history, and trying to cover some facts. According to facts that is known today, the Hambo "Kim" is merely a creation out of no where. This story is not based on any of the previous records, therefore, I would say it is anything but true. If it is based on something it is predicted to be rumors
@HelloChief117 The ones that aren't behind safety shields are stationary cameras with no one operating them.
@KoriSenbay Third it is Sinitic-origin Chin who said Hambo is Kor first, but at that time Jurchen is a vassal to Kor, later Jurchen became vassal of Liao(遼) dynasty, therefore "女真虽旧属高丽，不复相通者久矣" meaning although Jurchen once were vassal to Koryo, but they no longer contact for a long time, according to official record "金史". Then Kor historian recorded this "Hambo is a Kor monk named “今俊”" in"高麗史" ，but even he is doubtful about this so he recorded "或又雲meaning somebody told him this as alternative.
@KoriSenbay Then "滿洲源流考", a book that is trying to glorify manchus' past, further expanded this and said Hambo is Kor, his last name is "Kim" and Jin dynasty is derived from the surname "Kim". This story is created out of no where, and its intentions r very apparent. In fact, this is only source u can draw upon, becuz all other resources can be seen as supporting him as a Jurchen living in Korea.
@KoriSenbay and also it is just reasonable that "大金" is a continuation of "金", I don't know how do u relate it to this topic. And this "满洲源流考" r u sure it is done by the sixth emperor? I've always had doubt on this.... I believe this book is written during the time of " 乾隆", it is written by two Manchu beaurocrats, but I have strong doubt that “乾隆“actually said this..... the reason for writing this book is to show how long glorious Manchus' history is. It also covers some facts at same time
And the BM-13 stormed the field several years later.
@Hananim91 And actually majority of the "Jurchen" troops were actually composed of Song ppl. And actually it is Southern Song that broke the alliance with Mongols first
Now that was badass!
@canadianfirzen According to the official histories of the Jin and Qing the ancestor Hanpu was a lesser member of the Silla royal family who's descendants unified the Jurchen. For further information see "Hanpu" in wikipedia
@Hananim91 Song's status is merely political.... It's very complicated and I will just boil it down to Song emperor don't want to unify with Northern China. The military system is very very corrupted that's why Song soldiers don't even have any combat ability in the beginning. However, overall the Song won 70% of all battles against Jurchen Jin. Jin was never able to conquer Song at all. In fact, Song often had the chance to retake Northern China often being recalled by believers of peace
Hwacha can use explosion arrows for 'JoongShinKiJeon'
@KoriSenbay The official history "The history of Jurchens Kim dynasty" is probably "金史" as I know it becuz it is the only official one. The book doesn't state ancestor of Jin dynasty as Hambo "Kim",it only states that he "从高丽来" meaning he migrated out of Koryo, but it doesn't tell what group of ppl he belongs,nor does it tell his last name is "Kim". According to Jin dynasty's own record "祖宗实录", Hambo was a Jurchen that lived in Koryo, well again it is based on legends, but Jurchen's own legend
@canadianfirzen Wikipedia isn't the ultimate source, it's just the most convenient one for me to give to you on the topic because it covers it extensively. However if you take a look at the references list you can find more authoritative sources.
I initially found it difficult to believe the notion since it doesn't seem to be well-known, but having taken the time to research the topic (out of curiosity) it seems to be how the Jin and Qing regarded themselves
true. By that time, the Europeans had better cannons because they costantly tested their weaponry. Besides, most of the conquest done by Europe was economic anyway
Korea is always so innovative and effective.10,000 years of history right there, that is why Korea is still standing strong as top 10 economy/world power despite being split in half!!! the UN failed but it's all okay lol thank you to UN troops
I'm disappointed because there aren't any red and blue man with bubbling eyes running to each other
@KoriSenbay .... I am srry the history book "The History of Jurchens Kim dynasty" (金史)is not written by mongols. Every dynasty have 史官 meaning history recorder. They record history for the next dynasty to edit and made into books. Therefore, "金史" is actually written by Jurchen, but edited by both Chin and mongol into books.
It definitely rates up there on the awesomeometer (awesome o meter) with the big hydraulic shark.
@KoriSenbay what I am saying is the source u've given me is not really considered correct. The "name of the Jurchens Empire (Kim dynasty) was derived from the royal family (Kim) of Korean Silla dynasty" is not based on any of the previous records, it is probably made up or derived from rumors and legends. Also, there were rumors in Korea back then that states the founder of Jurchen empire was a monk in Korea. Therefore, that record is probably derived from rumors like that.
@KoriSenbay it is Manchus who said their ancestor is Kor, but it is actually build upon nothing. Don't just take what u need, and disregard all the stuff that r disproving it.
@KoriSenbay When did the Jurchens conquer the Song?
@Hananim91 I won't say conquered becuz most of states I guessed that r in your mind(if u know any), flowed in when China had internal conflict, and then they were forced to learn Chin language; changed from nomads to peasants; setting up laws that state that you have to intermarry with Chin; and eventually integrated into Chin society. I don't see that's very conquering to me.
@myschwettyballs
Uhh dude, it was a siege met with an assault without any plans.
Any ranged weapon would've done the trick. Especially how Japanese soldiers were not adept at defeating ranged attacks as they lacked any effective means of stopping projectiles, such as Shields.
The 40 hwachas is a nice show for terrorising enemies, but like all ranged weapons, thats really all it does
@KoriSenbay ok last time I said it out of memory, I found a fault in it, so I will resay it again to make it right. "满洲源流考”is done in "乾隆" period, which I always thought to be the 5th emperor becuz I always leave out Nurhachi. However, I still have strong doubts that the emperor wrote this... R u trying to mess around with the logic? Just becuz it is done during "乾隆" period，it doesn't mean that it is wrote by 乾隆 or said by 乾隆. And theonly official history should be "清史".
if that last arrow were alive, all it's friends would make fun of it.
of course - hangugeo is different from nihongo but both are learning english for use as a common language in negotiations so it can be done.
btw just enjoy the video
@KoriSenbay according to official record “辽史”(this part recorded by Jurchen Jin dynasty)， "Jin"（金）dynasty's name is taken because Liao(遼) dynasty's name means 镔铁 meaning wrought iron, and 金 means gold which doesn't corrupt like wrought iron. "Jin" is derived from Kor last name "Kim" is recorded in the same book “满洲源流考“，it is nothing but a creation out of no where. This book is only trying to glorify Manchus' past. a lot of its content is merely Koreation.....
@KoriSenbay First of all, last time we talked about the Jurchen Kim. I pointed out ur source, but I didn't finish. The source has some problems, becuz it is not based on any previous sources and is created out of nowhere. Therefore, majority just disregard it as official history. So the Jurchen Kim thing(it should be Jin not Kim) is not recognized widely.
Secondly, Jin dynasty didn't conquer Song. I don't know wether u r talking about North Song or Song as a whole. Song was not conquered
@NastyGreaser
Battle_of_Haengju
Type this on wikipedia. Look at the force strength and the decisive winner of the battle.
There is only one explanation for the casualties on the Japanese side.
Overall seabattles won it for Korea. But that doesn't mean Korea lost battles on land.
@Hananim91 let alone the nomads' advantage over the Song foot Soldiers. 1. China is full of open plains and no mountain ranges to strengthen their defence. 2. Southern China had no horses. 3. From North to South it is warmer and from South to North it is colder, etc. There r a lot of advantages that the nomads have over the Song army, and the biggest difference is one needs to fight and one doesn't. With the GDP produced by 2 counties out of 1000, you can actually buy peace then why fight?
@Delta4845
If it didnt work it wouldnt have been used by the ancient korean army now, would it?
@KoriSenbay I am not making them morons. The book tried to cover facts like Ming dynasty's rule and 建州三衛 etc and etc. It is considered a good book for studying relationships and Northeastern ethnics, but it makes up stories like Hampu Kim or Kim dynasty, which is completely bizarre... How do u know what sources they drew upon?
@KoriSenbay 金兀术..... omg, ya it appears in theatres a lot... as if it means "Kim".... it is not a last name ok?
@dsk It is pretty highly unlikely Chin pretended to be kor and stir trouble on the internet... anyways the history channel of Korea actually also make claims that r bizzare.. for example, Jin dynasty is formed by Korean?
This video proves that even medieval Koreans knew the concept of More Dakka. Because There Is NO Kill Like Overkill.
@KoriSenbay oh I forgot to say there is also another book done by a Kor historian which suggests that Hambo is a Kor monk...
@KoriSenbay“满洲源流考" is making up a story that Jurchens' ancestor is Kor, and Jin dynasty's name derived from "Kim". They wish it to be true becuz the reason for writing that book to glorify Manchus' long past, and trying to cover some facts. However, it does not mean it is true according to jurchen Jin dynasty's“宗祖实录" their ancestor is a Jurchen living in Koryo... U can't say what they wished to make u think is the truth...
@dsk ya that's y i think wiki is somewat biased... becuz it emphaizes on one point of view, or else it contradict itself. It doesn't really show all the arguments about it
This was epic xD
@Hananim91 as I said real things are actually a bit different, and politics is dark. And things are actually different from what you wish. The ethnic tension is not as strong as what most ppl think. And I won't comment on Tibetans and Uighurs as things would drag extremely long and we won't agree with each other forever, becuz I know the story from both sides, not just the somewat inaccurate info from the west. And that doesn't have anything related to the topics we were focusing on before
@KoriSenbay Jin dynasty did rule northern China, but u said by 1126AD they already started ruling northern China, that is not true, however, becuz they r mostly illiterate they were unable to rule China, so they founded a dynasty called "Chi", whose emperor is a former Song dynasty official.
I'd like to see the Mythbusters use heavy Indian rockets of Teppu Sultan. Those were BIG rockets, they slaughtered the Brits!
@dsk so r u talking about Jin calls Korea as mother country??and Qing emperor's last name 爱新觉罗？
Poor Grant, killing his Japanese ancestors
@KoriSenbay Ya I know what Korean historians had suggested, and in fact I've seen KBS's documentary on Jin dynasty. And I am actually literally smiling and out of words. It makes me go |||v__v. It is filled with nationalism. I am not saying that Chin scholars don't have nationalism. The diff is Chin call them minority ethnic of China, but Kor nationalists call all of those ppl in that region Kor, even though their passports clearly have a letter "China" on them...
@Hananim91 my point is don't be so shallow in terms of nationality and ethnic. It is a Kor idea not very modern. I mean I know some Kor are not satisfied with their territory etc.Well, I can understand that. That's why I see all kinds of Kor nationalists spreading rumors and hate towards other countries like China and Japan, or trying to lure the foreigners into hating these countries with their over-simpled and inaccurate info. That's why I take time & explain to them a different perspective
This is one of if not the coolest thing they've ever done lol....
reason they used this over long bow is that for it's bust fire and because u don't need any training to use this. but on top of that, scary and awesomeness probably is big factor. no wonder why they named this 'shin gi jun' (arrow of God)
@Hananim91 He is not considered hero of Han Chinese. He is considered hero who fought Jin. China don't promote ethnic tension the way the Kor do. Kor is single ethnic so talking to them require patience. They just don't understand what countries with multi-races or multi-ethnic are like.
The predecessor of modern day MLRS.
1:03-!:11 199 rockets in 8 seconds= ~1500 rpm= 2 machine guns! (may not be accurate, it looked like the did multiple takes...)
I wish they put water balloons filled w/ red food coloring on the dummies to show damage when they got hit! Imagine HUNDREDS of those weapons...
if i can remember in my Japanese class, this were used by the Koreans and when they detonate on impact.
@KoriSenbay
You should watch "Manchu history - 1( A rebuttal against Korean Nationalist's fabrication ) " and "Crazy Korean Nationalists " here on youtube.
@KoriSenbay ..... Basically, majority of ppl don't agree, and who knows wether u guys have paid them?
@KoriSenbay culture, living style, written language, level of civilization, etc.... Kor is more similar China than to Jurchens... if that is political, I wonder why would Jurchen not be political?
@dsk yes maybe I know that, but it doesn't change the fact that many young Kor nationalist r saying those kinda of things, throughout the entire web nationalist Kor ppl r spreading those, can u say they r not?... it's not that I am supporting verbal harassment from the Chin or siding with them, and it is not that i am too biased to see the truth or watever. It is kinda like an obligation to fight back. There shouldn't be just one voice rite?
so the makers of Empire Earth simmered down it's power.
@Xana6637 I don't treat history like a myth, and I agree the history belongs to the country. So would Korz stop their racism like: "Korz taught Chin how to cultivate crops", "Korz (the northerners) beat up China", "Korz were DongYi who invented Chin characters and taught Chin how to write", and some Korz were like: "Korz invented go chess, becuz if Chin invented it, then y is Chin bad in it?"..... These r seriously flawed arguments done by Kor ppl.
ohh hwatch sa-ay-ay, oh that you only ment when
@canadianfirzen That's not the koreans "claiming" anything .. that's the Jin and Qing official histories speaking.
If it's not to your liking then it's unfortunate, but attacking koreans won't change that.
Replace the arrows with warheads! Heck yeah!
they should re-do this myth, but with more targets... or aim it at a wall... of pigs...
amazing!
@Hananim91 Trust me a lot of these tensions are very political, it is very hard to meet a mutual agreement. Becuz ppl r brought up this way, and they will always fail to question the very knowledge that are engraved into their mind. Both Kor and Chin r raised up this way, the educators always give you a perspective of other nations keeps harrasing us, and we've been humiliated. These are not always true, it is just a perspective that the nation want you to believe in.
화차
@KoriSenbay Jurchen didn't know how to rule at first, therefore, they installed a dynasty called "大齐", later after discovering "Chi" couldn't meet their expectations it is when they started to rule, and of course still using former Chin officials and system. And u r just mixing with logic here cuz Song is not refounded. Southern Song is just a continuation of Northern Song. The ppl r still there. It is just a change of emperor, territory, and capital, but Song was never annhilated.
@Xana6637 let alone the accuracy of the arguments, but the racism in Kor arguments r very apparent. And from what I studied, Korz started this racism first, and Chin fought back. If u want to argue with me, I would can show you some. I don't hate Kor and I don't think I have bias towards Kor. In addition, I am Kor fan as well, but what I am saying is some of Korz r so sick that i really would want to refute them
who the hell is TOGO i don't know him
@armyboy24 I dont really see the connection, but since you are comparing me to the hwacha I will take that as a compliment.
@armyboy24
You mean like soldiers in the american army?
@KoriSenbay It is funny that when talking about relationships, nationalist korz always try to bring together the Altaic family and try to corner China, yet when talking about nomadic barbarians and culture, Korz try to state how special and different their culture is... Altaic family is actually a losely founded family, their cultures are different and their language r actually quite different. Why do nationalists Korz always bring out this actually non-existing altaic "brothership"
@dsk no no no... offcial history isn't very clear, it is only by judgement and assertion that they believe that is the case.
2 words.......... GO HWACHA
@KoriSenbay is your source 满洲源流考？
And it is very doubtful that Jurchens Jin dynasty came from Korean Silla dynasty...
The Hwacha is still my favorite thing that they've ever done.
@KoriSenbay Can u state all the official records u talked about? Maybe just several? "The Origin of Manchu" = "满洲源流考", so I think I see what ur source is...becuz that is the only source that says Hambo is from Kim family as far as I know. From ur incapability of understanding "满洲源流考", I think u can't even read Chin. Anyways, I am still curious how some Kor nationalists perceive this subject, and wat sources they draw the info from.
@KoriSenbay "Well, both Korean and Jurchens/Manchus who are directly related to the ancestor of Jurchens Kim dynasty "
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wow u r completely putting ur prejudice into ur arguments, u r assuming u r right at the first place, and u try to mess around my logic as well... it is very creative. Jurchens never said their ancestor r kor, don't take the mother country thing seriously, becuz Kor during Choson also called China the father country.
@Xana6637 Now, the relationship b/w China and Korea is, China admires Korea's development, BECUZ CHINA DIDN"T DEVELOP THAT WAY. As u know it's a communist thing. China admires Korea, but then China started to learn the arrogant side of Korea recently for both North and South Korean. North and South Korea r pretty arrogant. Especially the North, they will do the craziest stuff that u will ever imagine, keep pushing the limit and boundaries of China.
I kind of wish I had a couple of these =/
@myschwettyballs
Fact, the Japanese commander was over confident and had no siege plan.
Fact, all ranged weapons prior to late muskets were used to terrorise, not necessarily to kill
Fact, Japanese soldiers rarely carry shields to battle as it is a sign of cowardice.
Conclusion, it isn't much of an attribute for Hwacha to win this battle
@dsk plus wikipedia isn't really a good source... I find it somewat biased most of the time
@KoriSenbay U kept saying Jurchen "Kim" dynasty conquered "Chin" Song dynasty... R u trying to imply that "Kor" conquered "Chin" again? The invading armies did defeat Northern Song and so Song's capital shifted to the South, and Song's territory shrinked, but Song still exists. U used the word "conquered", it is technically wrong. In 1126AD Jin didn't start to rule China, in fact, they didn't know how to rule China so they founded a dynasty called "Chi".
study sea battles then. any cannons hardly could not attack and sink a ships to bottom then, because cannons had no rifling(too bad hit rate) and cannonballs did not explode and even if swaied not too mach it is difficult to aim. do you know european ships in age of empire?(17th to 19th)if you want to sink ships with cannons in the sea then you need that number of cannons at least. so Turtle ship did not exist ro was not practical.
@canadianfirzen This is the internet, unfortunately there's people masquarading as other nationalities in order to foster bad feelings. This includes pretending to be korean and attacking chinese to stir things up.
I would stress again that the PRC had an approval rate of 60+% before all this blew up .. why would then start attacking chinese out of the blue as you think?
Consider that the PRC press has a strong hand in propagating these myths, if anything you should be angry at them.
@KoriSenbay oh my god that altaic "brothership" again... do the ppl back at that time have an idea of what "altaic" means? As I said Altaic is loosely founded... if u try that to corner China u r just wrong... and r u actually talking about cavemen period or Jurchen period?
its korean ancient rocket weapon. hwacha means FLAME VEHICLE :-p
@KoriSenbay Just to correct Jurchen never conquered China twice. Even the Qing dynasty is with the major help from China's own traitors and internal conflict..... and the majority of the land conquered by Qing dynasty is also actually conquered by Han troops....
Yup^^
@KoriSenbay "Kim" is a last name, do last names all mean something? I don't think so for example "Wang"(王) literally means "king", but do u mean ppl with that last name r kings? Wang does not have any meanings as a last name. Ok, Koryo kings' last name is "Wang", and according to some scholars' study with his ancestry, Koryo's king royal family should be Chin. However, did Chin claim Koryo dynasty of Korea is Chin history? So stop claiming Jurchen is kor...
i love it!