Axial vs Radial Motorcycle Brakes | What's The Difference?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ค. 2024
- Which is better? Axial or radial motorcycle brake calipers and master cylinders? Here are the differences.
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 Todays Plan
0:25 Caliper Differences
1:17 Monimoto AD
2:10 Why Radial Callipers Are Better
3:11 Master Cylinder Differences
3:32 Why Radial Master Cylinders Are Better
4:08 The Truth - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Hi, I'm looking into buying an R1 preferably 2012 year till 2014, basically the same as yours😂
Any tips on where to find a good one for under R110k?
you forgot the main benefits of radial calipers. there are usually four pistons in each calipers on both sides of the disc. resulting in even pressure on the disc from both sides, even wear on both brake pads and self adjusting of the caliper in relation to the disc. without making the caliper slide side to side. resulting a sharp brake feel. while axial calipers usually has only two/three pistons on one side. poorer brake feel, sometimes uneven wear of the pads if the slider jams due to corrosion, and it hangs kinda loose on its mounts because it has to slide itself to the piston side as the brake pads wear down.
what should you do or can you do if your links in your chain no longer go smoothly?
me watching this with a motorcycle life full of drum brakes🤣
They're better than nothing!
Which are obvoisly cabel operated. Yep.
at least those dont need abs, no risk of locking
@@andrewboschmann9880 yep
@@SuzukiRiderlv426 the way i use them they do lock up quite a lot
One of the biggest advantage of radial calipers for racing is to enable easy swapping of disk sizes to switch between a wet and a dry setup, just using a spacer between the caliper and its mount.
Radial master cylinders main advantage is probably just the dramatically different sizes of master cylinder bore and lever ratio
I think your explanation would have made a better video.
The four pot axial calipers always have two size of piston in one caliper e.g 30/34 ,32/34 . If you are sensitive enough, the axial four pot would be more “linear “But for radial calipers the four pistons are the same bcoz the way they are mounted doesn’t create the instability that the axial does so they don’t need that. The axial four pot could be thinner and lighter than a radial and makes difference putting on small bikes.
For the master cylinder, draw the free body diagram and you will find the axial type would have a part of the force applied on the lever wasted around the pin. It means the piston of the radial type would take more force than the axial do given the length of the lever and force applied are the same. Not just the size. Also the feedback would be unclear for the axial type due to a big part of it goes to the pin.
Very great video, the bike community is lacking of this kind of straight forward type of content
i second this.
also, i can't wait for the time when the video thumbnails w/ the 'super surprised face' is over :)
You know I never knew the difference, so thank you for a crystal clear presentation of the difference between them 😊
Great video! About stiffness on axial calipers, the one you have on your dirtbike is a sliding pin caliper. The pistons are on one side, and the entire caliper moves to bite on the disc evenly (ish, pad wear is biased to one side) and there are two pins that it slides on. Opposed piston axial calipers are on older high performance bikes. Those are solidly bolted on. Alignment variations are far more difficult to deal with. Saying which is better between axial or radial, you made a good point about better materials, design and manufacturing. I would take a radial master all day, if they didn't stick out and hit the dash on older sportbikes. Semi-radial cylinders do exist for a compromise.
(hope the next part is not too long!)
Design example:
Opposed piston calipers in the 80's were split, meaning each caliper piston side can be separated.Those have problems with bleeding, then you end up with a bit of a sponge because of all the passages the fluid has to go, a bleed block (push the pistons in almost all the way and chock them) is almost always needed. There's also some O-rings between the two halves, they rarely weep or leak but if they do hope there's a part for it. For a motorcycle example, take the FZR1000 and the 80's "Bike Of The Decade" FZR100R EXUP.
Later in the 90's you start seeing "blue dot" calipers - those are monoblock as with all modern high performance calipers, but have a pipe running across the two sides at the bottom. Still not ideal, but better!
Example would be the YZF1000R Thunderace.
Real single piece axial calipers came later, as seen on the original YZF-R1 and R6. From there, the internal passages are similar to the radial calipers. Some (usually denoted with "gold dots", for reference your MT has "blue dots") has pistons that aren't steel or iron (presumed as aluminum, maybe titanium) and provide even better response with the weight reduction, plus no rust anymore!
There's also this example. The first iteration FZR400 used two-pot front calipers, and needed great maintenance to stay biting sharp. The next iteration onwards came with four-pot units similar to the FZR750 and 1000 of the time, and those woes are not as prevalent. Same master cylinder.
Radial master cylinders are an astounding upgrade for old axial calipers. A good investment, the improved feel pushes that confidence up in any situation. Beware of the fakes!
You seem to know a lot, why do you think they still make axial calipers? they seem to be more expensive as there are more parts involved and the design looks more complicated in general. Am i missing something?
@@t0k4m4k7 It is cheaper to make sliding pin calipers, you need fewer machining operations than opposed-piston ones that is solidly mount - and definitely easier to manufacture than radial calipers. Tolerances are way less crucial. It is well known and engineered. The other reason can be exclusivity, lower end bikes don't get the radial stuff but the higher ups do...
Well said, exactly what i thought 🎉
@@t0k4m4k7 go look at any car. 90% are floating caliper. only a handful (and most toyotas) are fixed caliper, 4* piston units.
From the geometrical point of view, axial and radial master cylinders are perfectly the same (only different points of alignment, but same relative-to-center-point movement, with the difference being that the radial shown in the video has a different type of adjust. If I'm wrong, please explain what really changes?
This is what I was hoping for when clicking the link. Been pondering that question myself for a while. No answer here though ☺
As a mechanic i never heard of that term.
We call this float or fixed caliper.
The fixed caliper is used in racing because you can transform the heat better from the brakes. That way you have less brake fading...etc
This apples for cars and bikes.
Making the float caliper bigger will help with that but you add quickly diminishing returns.
The axial caliper that he showed happened to be a single-sided floating caliper, but that wasn't the point of the video.
There are also opposed-piston fixed-mount axial brakes. See for example the R1 prior to 2004 when they went to radial mount.
Thanks for finally saying out loud what most people don't understand right.
Radial mastercylinders don't make breaking "stronger"! The Breaking force is determend by the breaking fluid pressure.
Pressure is force/surface. Anyone who understands this will notice that the direction doesn't change anything here. Only the surface of the cylinder matters and the force that is applied to it.
The force can be changed by the lever length.
=> it does absolutly not make sense to go for an upgrade radial master zylinder and than limiting it's effect by using a shorty lever, with decrease the amount of pressure you can put on the masterzylinder with your hand.
higher quality components are usually nicer for the feeling tho
Good fluid, properly bled in good (braided) hoses & good pads is the easiest most effective upgrade.
Cool video! I know how difficult it can be to come up with new a different ideas for videos (as you have mentioned in the past). This was great! 😎👍
Very good timing. I was thinking about changing my brake caliper this afternoon . Well explained . Thanks😊
As always thank you for the great vid and keep up the good work.
I’ve been around bikes all my life and often wondered what the difference was, but had never seen a clear explanation. Until now. Thank you.
Once again this channel is so underrated! Superb editing superb content
As always,
Love your videos man !❤
Dude, i'm from Brazil, and never EVER heard about these two types of brakes calipers before. My actual bike is a CB500 from 2000's, Brembo axial brake calipers and no ABS , as you mentioned, i've seen no diference beetween those, cause i'm a regular biker.
Congrats for your amazing content, ride safe!
Great video as always, short and sweet. I've actually just upgraded my 2021 S1000R from an Axial MC to a Radial unit from the RR, Difference is night and day! Great mod
I’m not that sure about calipers, but from physics point of view, there should be basically no difference between radial/axial master Cylinder, only difference would come from bending in the leaver, and that would be super insignificant.
The axial calipers have no centering pin because they don't NEED them in a first place. The main benefits are a ligther construction and an easier faster mounting, useful for quick change.
As far as master cylinders the radial setup reduce A BIT friction, hence better feeling and "power" but for most of us a little lubricant in the lever mechanism is already a huge improvement. For extreme improvement, small needle bearings and accurate diameter tempered steel shafts are a must. For any road bike a drop of oil is already doing wonders....
Well said!
Some other time I saw a different video about brakes but there was only talking and hand gesturing (not sure if it was Motojitsu?), anyway they didn't get the point across.
Now I understand the differences real well! Thanks!
My previous bike, an FZ6 had both axial master and callipers, and they were plenty for very hard braking on the track, just make sure you hover the foot over the rear brake so the ABS wouldn't go crazy and take away front brake. Then I went to an R6 with radial both and the instant braking was awesome! The biggest difference was confidence because of feel and finesse, not stopping power
i love your videos i may not understand have the stuff but there just intresting to see
Great video, thanks for this, as well as for all the comments beneath. What I don't fully understand yet is absence of any floating element in radial geometry. Is it necessary or not? Years ago I had a bike with floating disc, then I had a bike with floating caliper, but currently on both Hondas it does not seem any of these have any floating element. How do these deal with pads wear of thermal expansion? Thanks
As always very interesting information. The sponsor banner progress was suppied or is a self invention? 😄
Ibrake with my boots, do they cout as radial?😀
Only if they're Alpinestars 😉
No, I believe those are flintstones.
I gues it's poverty. Nea jk. But don't ware them aut. You might need them to walk home when the bike breaks down
Radial Brembo’s on my Rally Pro. They give outstanding feel and will stop *on a dime!
Great video! Thanks.
Well explained
My bike have a axial braking set up.
IMO it is not the set up which make the difference.
It is the way I maintain the overall bike.
Every year replace the oil,brake fluid,break pads is an expensive affair,but doing it in by early is not.
(Depending purely on riding)
I do it every year,15000 kms.
Proper maintaining doesn't mean I have to wait until it's broken,every part might work much more but life is priceless,investing a few grands on motorcycle won't do any harm.
That includes tires,brakes,oil,filter,fluid,chain,cables etc.
You are quickly becoming my favourite channel. It’s interesting and you and all the other experts might be right but from a basic physics view, both types are dealing with forces that are applied across the mounting bolts. Radially the forces are upwards against the top bolt in compression and the bottom mount in tension. Axial brakes have forces acting the same on both mounting bolts but at the other side of the bolt about 180 degrees , with a slight difference re the width apart. So to me it’s certainly not strength of the mount thats different, the big difference is the centrifugal forces, slowed by braking or free spinning are in line with the calliper mounts, negligible to no difference on the road but for Rossi and Marquez, perhaps it feels smoother. I can’t remember who, perhaps Honda , but they introduced floating callipers which self-centering for lateral and radial forces and a better force distribution.. I thought this was very clever.
Nice and informative !
A great advantage of the radial brake caliper is that it does not require maintenance like axial brake calipers. Which require lubrication on the movable fixing pins.
Thanks ! I'm glad someone explained me the difference at last. 🙂
Clearly explained, thank you
Drum brakes is sitting in the corner like, "what am I chopped liver?"
This couldn't be any clearer. Excellent work.
My bike has an expanding shoe, foot operated brake on the back wheel, and a hand-operated, contracting-band brake on the sprocket shaft.
Oh, and hub-centre steering. :-)
Great information.
Its interesting that the current generation of the MT 09, whether it is stock or SP, have Radial brakes and Radial Master cylinders.
I have both a Z900 and Z900RS. RS brakes are radial, Z's are axial. Both 4 piston up front. To tell you the truth, when riding hard on the street the Z's axials seem to perform as well as the RS. When sitting in the garage though, grabbing the brake levers, the RS feels a lot more firm. Might upgrade to stainless lines on the Z for better feel and performance.
I have mannaged to get better brake feeling out of a fully axial setup that some to out of a radial.
I drove a 2007 Moto Guzzi Breva 1100 with 2x Brembo P4 30/34's axially mounted, 4 piston callipers. Together with a higher qualaty Brembo PSC16 maser cylinder that thing has a more direct feetback than my brand new Guzzi V100 with Brembo M4 callipers and PR16 (or 18?) master cylinder.
And im currently upgrading my SC59 Fireblade Trackbike from Tokico callipers / Nissin master, to Brembo Stylema callipers and PSC16 master.
Nice and simple. I work on bicycles and we have the same setups on mountain bikes.
Another great vid! Here I thought I would lose interest after you sold your Duke (I had a Duke when I started watching your vids) but your content just keeps getting better!
I'm happy to hear that!
Fantastic video 👏👏👏
Im on an order bike, so axial for me...
Good content 👍 👍 I am from India, I have a 220cc motorbike (Bajaj Pulsar 220F) with axial type braking installed, but I have modified my master cylinder into a brembo rcs radial master cylinder but the caliper still has the default ones.. and also i am using sintered brake pads in my case to improve the braking ability.. 😊
Excellent explaination imho. That said, brakes like all other components continue to evolve. The hard fact is that if someone knows the limits of even drum brakes they are going to out perform the novice with even the latest techware.
Same as you, radial on the street triple r and axial on the Crf sumo.
Hey thanks for that great info, been riding for 45 years and just found that out...got more?
I'd say that a radial conversion kit for a 450 super moto for street use is a must, with that kind of power in the twistes here in Italy you better hope to have at least a radial caliper installed instead of the oem axial 2p caliper, don't underestimate brakes even in a sporty street use
Ridden both and I am no rookie, ridden for decades many bikes of all type and sizes and on street it is all a sales pitch. fact is growing up on bikes when discs first appereared on street then dirt bikes a modern street bike has better brakes than 99% of riders will ever need or use. the top 1 % of racers can feel difference. Like I learned playing golf, i am a 10 -12 handicap and cheap cavity back clubs are easier for me to keep good scores, a pro club like Tiger and those guys are BETTER but only if you have the skill to use them like they do, I played with those once with a golf pro at local club my hits were terrible as you must be perfect to even hit a decent shot but in the hands of a real golfer they can shape shots and distances with one club I cannot do with any club. Like driving a race car it is a fine tuned weapon and if you are not pro you will be slower on a a track than in a street car. it sounds good but fact is on street bikes with street rider both are more than enough.
How does “axial” vs “radial” master cylinders change the feel? From a physics perspective this makes no sense.
Yes, EXACTLY! To have more or less force push on the master cylinder piston, it is about the leverage ratio of the lever. About brake lever pull feeling...this is about the leverage ratio characteristic curve. Orientation of the master cylinder piston is this case is irrelevant from the perspective of automobile engineering.
So, basically, IS mount vs. post mount? 😁
Ducati streetfighter 848, all radial en iron covered brake hoses, its good, and looks nice!!
always thought the words originated from one another... radial = radius of wheels, axial = axle of wheel.
but even if it isn't its nice to remember :D
I have recently upgraded the 'floating' 2 piston axial calipers on my V-Strom 650 to axial 'ridgid' mounted 4 piston calipers. My experience is that these brake much better and have a more liniar feel then the standerd ones. Maybe this is because Nissin is better quality then Tokico? Maybe it's because the are solidly mounted instead of floating? I honestly don't know but it was definitely worth the money if you ask me.
The floating ones are the worst type possible (also the cheapest). They only have pistons on one side and they rely on the caliper sliding to transfer force to the other side. I assume that means the force will never be the same on both sides and some force will be lost trying to make the caliper slide while it is under tension.
I have brembo axial brake caliper with axial brembo master cylinder on my Ducati 1000S, still works much better than a brand new mt09 with axial brakes
on bicycle can be axial/radial brakes, same caliper is mounted on both way and it is good because shims can be mounted on both to get right position of caliper
Radial towards the Radiator, if there's one :P
never used radial but my modified 1998 600 facer has 2000 RSV mile r frontend with a set of billet 6 callepers based on the tokodo desine and a 2003 R1 master cilinder this set up is way better than stock blue dots it came with
Soooo if you have a radial mounts you have no fading brakes? I am still used to the the old school....
He, who brakes last, is longer fast.
yes but he who brakes most wins the race
He who takes brakes the most, will soon be at the unemployment line sooner - Lazy Tzu
would have would have bicycle chain
@@dsofe4879 Lol. Damit habe ich nicht gerechnet
He who brakes late, maybe. Not last!
Axial calipers can slide thus need pistons on one side only. The other sides barke pads ride on the calipers body itself.
On radial mounts, you need to either have pistons on both sides (making the hydraulics path complex and calipers costly to make and maintain, or make the rotor disk floating on bobbins (costly rotors).
Even with Ad, the video is short enough to explain Axial vs Radial in a crystal clear way.
Just an idea, can you please make a video that explain whether or not dual disc brakes have better stopping power ?
Tacing applications maybe the radial is worth it. Normal street riding any setup is more than enough
I thought that radially mounted callipers were originally used to enable easier swapping of brakes at the circuit as you only have to add spacers to the calliper mount for different disc sizes.
Probably not as much disk size but quick swapping of troublesome calipers. So the advantage for every day motorcycles is less clear. The radial mastercylinder argument makes a bit more sense though. Then then the efficiency of the axle around which the handle turns becomes important and on conventional setups these tend to be built rather cheaply.
I have axial calipers but without problems with play and flexiness (R1150R) - just 4 pistons.
As far as the calipers go the only definitive difference is ease of replacement when a caliper starts to play up during racing. Radials are very quick to remove / replace. That’s a lot less relevant on every day bikes. The more directly operated radial brake master cylinder argument is stronger although a more high tech bearing on a conventional system would already be a big improvement. The rest is more a matter of fashion and myth building versus affordability. As so often.
What happens when the batteries die in the tracker?
Drums and best 😅
Very good explanation. Thank you sir.
My gen 1 r125 is axially mounted caliper (layer ones are radially mounted however looks like it has a radial style master cylinder, (brembo made so who knows) 😂
Make a video about KN filters vs Normal filters
Or DNA, Sprint or do... all the so called "performance" air filters, the increase airflow but thus messing up the air/fuel ratio, if the parameters are not adjusted.
@@thorstenmetalhead9666 not to mention, that "performance" filters is focused on well performance, so your engine lifespan might not be as long as stock / foam filters
@@thorstenmetalhead9666 you're supposed to adjust air/fuel ratio when putting on performance parts (filters, reeds in case of 2T, exhausts, cylinder/head mods, etc...) especially if the bike has carburetor
@@ghaviorizky3961 performance filters are meant to allow engine suck more air into it to mix with fuel, so if the engine is properly jetted (accordingly to mods) and filter properly installed there is no reason for shortening the lifespan. Filters are there to filter the air and eliminate any particles to enter the engine. The engine will take as much air as needed and allowed to. With performance filter you'll only allow it to take more air with less obstruction.
@@michalruzicka9320 yeah less obstruction but more of DIRT from the environment will enter your engine, WHICH IS BAD. thats why most factory filters have so small tolerance (like 10 microns) or smth
As usual with safety-related parts on a vehicle, the best parts are often cheapest when including the cost of an accident and the chance of avoiding it through better gear.
Saving money on tires means buying the absolute best for riding on the street, because that's where the dangers are. With brakes, it's similar, but the price increase is often too much for some to bear.
Buy the best brakes, best tires and never skip the abs. If in doubt, remember how many drivers are texting and driving.
the best option: stock axial type with brembo cover 👍
I prefer Fred Flintstone brakes.
They rock!
I have both systems on my street bikes, radial is absolutely the best one.
I ride a Chinese 450 sumo (KTM replica) that came with an "Axial" caliper. just did the oversize 320mm rotor upgrade with Galfer pads, stock was 260mm with I don't even know what type of pads it came with. I agree that the "Radial" caliper are better. But, that upgrade is freaken incredible. If I pull as hard like I did with the 260mm rotor, I will endo over the bars... I also now how good "Radial" calipers are as I owned from a 350cc to a R1. So I really don't think I need anymore breaking power.
Interested in what kind of Chinese ktm clone you have? Never heard of such Chinese 450.
Radial master cylinder feels so good when braking, I feel like I am in complete control of the braking force. It completely eliminated the spongy feel of the stock master cylinder and there is no going back .
Is it necessary for the street ride? Absolutely not, but it’s a nice thing to have if you could afford one.
Small bike here modify axial caliper pair with floating disc, so the brake not working well, cause there is two moving part, resulting waving contact, and they still deny to educated 😄
Me who has mechanical drum brakes on my xr100r 💀
interesting, your dirt bike has flexibility support and flexibility disc😮
with radial I have better feel of the pressure throughout the squeeze.
I just checked the bikes I've ridden and mostly, newer bigger bikes around 900cc have radial, and 600s below has axial.
Older models like the T120 and the R9T has Axial even with huge engines.
My Trident 660 has Axial since it's light weight, while my MT09 has Radial.
my 390 duke has radial
By watching your video I found that My Honda CB300R Its having Radial Caliper but Axial brake lever 😂😅
Next question is: Which is the floating part in the brake system? The caliper or the brake disc?
The big differences between radial and axial caliper designs are 1) the additional stiffness achieved with a monoblock body, and 2) accurate location via dowels in the fork leg. (Note how the radial caliper in the clip almost 'clicks' into place on it's dowels). The dowels take the shear loads very well. A dowelled monoblock body reduces the deflections that exist in other designs; less deflection means more load applied for a given pressure/load at the master cyl. It also probably improves the feel, being less 'spongy'. The solid / one piece nature of a monoblock caliper is better at reacting the piston forces which are, in simple terms, trying to open the U shaped cross section of the caliper. If an axial monoblock caliper was made as accurately and more specifically, accurately dowelled to the fork leg lugs, given the same piston area, it is likely it'd be almost as effective. Split axial calipers however, need to have their two halves very well connected/clamped together, with large mating surfaces (a thick, wide bottom of the U) to reduce bending loads in the clamping bolts and thus deflection, but the disc gets in the way of doing that evenly and within the small space envelope. One solution, or improvement at least, for split axial calipers would be to have relatively thin walled dowels (with the largest feasible dia.) running across the two halves and that were a very smooth or almost interference fit...
you could just as easily make them in two pieces like any other automotive type 4 piston caliper instead of a mono design...
Radial bolts which fix the brake suffer less than axial, then you can use a more powerful idraulic amplifier en thus more breaking force. Thats why are "better"
Radial callipers are better on tarmac, where you have more traction and using slicker tyres breaking force is bigger. On motocross track you don't need such a strong breading force especially on front because your break caliper will simple block front wheel and cause crash.
Good post thank you...but you are (mainly) wrong...the reason race bikes adopted radial calipers is that they could change the size of the rotors (discs) fast and with just a spacer in the calipers...easy to experiment during a race weekend.
Radicals also make it easier to fit bigger discs
Funny.. aftermarket caliper company’s make radial conversion kits.
Seems kinda odd that it would be a upgrade.
Nice 👍
Monimoto tracker is using an e-sim isn’t gps. But that’s fine. Just don’t claim it’s using gps if it isn’t using gps, when it’s using the mobile network to triangulate the location. 😮
Radials with no abs plz
i even run radial master on my yfz450 quad....😎 the feedback is amazing
I prefer stopping the bike with my foot dragging on ground 😌 can't get a better feel than that
All my bikes have Axial. My BN302, my TnT125 and my Vision110. I havent experienced the Radials yet. Sooo wont know how they feel.
No mention of how drum brakes are the best ?
My bike is an old Harley. HD has no clue what radial mounted brakes are😰
the true axial brakes are drum types and the radial type is the disc type.this is video is clearly for the fixing method of the caliper
It's axial *mounted* vs radial *mounted* -- the brakes themselves are in the same plane.