Bobby Orr was dynamite and if it wasn't for Nicklas Lidstrom, the Red Wings never would have won all those Cups. The thing is, nobody talks about Scott Stevens, dirty at times yes but do you think it was all Brodeur when New Jersey won all their Cups ? Stevens was unreal, I felt bad for any forward trying to go around him.
@@rethink62 Thank you ! And you're right. I couldn't believe Stevens at the time in the late 1990's and early 2000's. He was like captain crunch, that superb hip check defenseman in the form of Gilles Marotte who played with Bobby Orr on those woeful 1966-67 Bruins.
Meet this legend played a game against him, what a great skater so graceful and effortlessly he glided across the ice, I asked him of I could buy him a beer after the game, he said no I’ll buy you one , so he bought me a beer and hung out with me for an hour , class , gentleman , and a wonderful human being. And signed a card for me, I was young at the time I didn’t understand who I was talking too or how much of a pioneer of the game he really was, I knew of him and I was so honored to have a beer with him and just stand next to him and now finding out what a legend he was just gives me chills, thank you Mr Robinson , never forget that night, god bless
Larry Robinson was a great person as well as a great player. He was a joy to be around even after losing a game. His wife was wonderful, too. A fantastic couple!
Robinson changed the game when he flattened Gary Dornhoefer in the 1976 Stanley Cup finals so hard they had to stop the game and fix the board at the Forum. It was at that exact moment the Philadelphia Flyers and the entire hockey world realized that violence, goons and fighting was not going to be enough anymore. With Robinson leading the charge, the Habs crushed the Flyers.
@@Mr_Spock512 The Schultz fight was at the begining of the season I think, Big Bird and the Habs sending a message to the bullies that their intimidating days were over
@@dylanryan8241 This was in 1976. The Montreal Canadiens put an end to the violence and disgrace after the Flyers won in 1974 & 1975. Since that hit, well your beloved flyers have not been scoring enough goals to win!
@@benoitforget2497 I am a Habs fan, the memorabilia is all over my house... Violence helped the Flyers, but you need to score goals to win a hockey game! The irony is that Robinson and the habs used Violence against the Flyers to help them win.
The Flyers had a HOF goalie and some of the greatest skaters in the history of the sport lol. They did not “win through violence”. The Habs in 76 were a better team with more talent. The end.
Looking at this video I am reminded when I was young seeing Larry Robinson skating backward in his zone with a offensive player coming at him…Larry leaving just enought room along the board and daring him to try and pass and then BOOM, hip check,door closed, always clean…offensive guy on his butt and Larry getting the puck in the corner…😊
I frickin’ HATED the Habs, especially in the ‘70’s when the Bruins were my team until the hometown Oilers joined the NHL. But for sometime, I’ve maintained that Larry Robinson was the greatest all-around defenseman EVER. Nobody had that complete game like him, (Pronger’s the closest one since)…120 feet, could fight with the best of em & lead like a Champion‼️ RESPECT‼️ 🇨🇦
@ They wish they played like Robinson!? I had an Oiler Dynasty season ticket, was there on May 19, 1984, when we dethroned the great Islanders, ending their 4 straight year reign. Gretzky WASN’T THE ONLY ONE, (he NEVER won another Cup after he was traded)…check ALL those HOF banners hanging in the rafters. 💤
I grew up in NYC and when playing hockey I wore #19, Fellow players thought it was for either Jean Ratelle or Bryan Trottier but, nope, it was for Larry Robinson. I don't know if he was THE greatest, but he was my favorite player as a kid hockey fan and low level player. Of course I always played defense. And, by coincidence, my favorite baseball player was Brooks Robinson, but I don't think they were related.
Lapointe, Savard, Robinson, any team would have been happy with just one of them. Imagine a team with all three. That was the Canadiens in the seventies. The greatness came from the back.
Not to mention that he could be effective in today's game with his speed and skating ability don't believe the others could not and I'm a Leafs fan but c gotta be honest 😂
@@josephnakoochee8865 There is no debate that Orr was the best. The point is Robinson’s overall game and impact on winning was second to none. He deserves to be talked about in the same breath as the Bourque and Potvins etc..
Still remember the goal showed twice around 5:30 when I was a kid watching the best hockey team on Earth. Robinson was indeed a great player who showed great respect to his fans, he even learned French. Those were the days.
LOL, as the habs were breaking him in as a rookie...that was his least productive year. A better comparison would be at 26. They'd be close but Orr does get the slight nod.
Being great,longgivtivity is part of it,Orr didn't have that,he couldn't handle the physical grind of the NHL,THATS THE FACT JACK,POTVIN WAS A BETTER DEFENSE, JUST PURE DEFENSE, IF YOU PLAY ON A TEAM THAT HAS PLENTY OF SCORES,YOU DONT HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE ,LIKE ORR ALWAYS DID,AND GET CAUGHT OUT OF POSITION, COULD ORR CHECK,COULD HE FIGHT,WHAT IM SAYING,THERE IS MORE TO IT THEN JUST SCORE,ROBINSON ,POTVIN,HAD TWO,THREE TIMES CUBS AS ORR,WHY ?
Robinson, like many others, was a super defenseman. But, there were a lot of great players, great forwards, great defenders, all stars, etc., etc. .......and then there was Bobby Orr. Period. End of story. There was just no one like him.
Bullshit! Bobby Orr changed the game of hockey forever. Robinson only followed in Orr’s footsteps. Bobby Orr was not only the greatest defenseman the NHL had ever seen, but he was the GREATEST player in the history of the NHL, because changed hockey!!!
I grew up a Habs fan. Robinson was a great defenseman. I played defense as a kid. He was my favorite player. That is who I wanted to be. But Bobby Orr is BY FAR the best ever. No question. Anyone who says anyone other than ORR is the GOAT is wrong.
@@lareau6but longevity alone can’t be the only argument. I feel like Orr’s 8 Norris trophies in such a short career exemplify his dominance over the position like no other. It is always Orr first and everyone else can fight for 2nd.
Larry was one of the very best. Better than any European or Russian. He could do everything on the ice surface, and he could hit. Orr wasn't just the best defenceman, he is the best player I have witnessed.
Orr was beyond incredible. What some people forget is Robinson (and team mates) stood up to the Flyers whose approach was brutality not skill. The best players are team players, different game today but same principles apply.
Who was it that said that Bobby Orr on one leg was better than the rest of us on two in the 1976 Canada Cup ? Was it Bobby Clarke ? Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@wingedbuffalo4670 I knew it !!! Bobby Orr was playing junior hockey as a wiry, pimpled 14 year old with MEN of 19 and 20 years old. Essentially 60-80 pounds heavier and he dominated the bigger guys.
Sorry, but considering Orr was a defenseman, as good as Larry was, Bobby was not only the greatest defenseman but a case can be made for him being the greatest, period.
I am a Hab fan who witnessed the NHL from the late 60's up until now, so I saw the carriers of all those great defensemen except for Doug Harvey: Orr, Potvin, Coffey, Lidstrom, Bourque, Salming, Robinson, Pronger and Fetisov. I absolutely loved Robinson. What a stud for the Habs. But I think the debate on who is the greatest ever on defence doest not exist. There is no question, whatsoever, that it is Bobby Orr. Offensively of course, but also the complete game: Orr was tough as nail, he was extremely good in his zone and of course, he could take the puck out of his zone like no one else ever. I think however that the questions remains on who was the second best ever. If I would have to pick the D to build a team with, aside from Orr, who would I pick? To me the choice is between Lidstrom, Bourque and Robinson. Hard to set those 3 apart, but I think they are all 3 one notch above the others.
Thank you for including Salming in the mix. Orr is tough to beat, but I think Salming is left out of the conversation too often. I think Lidstrom is pretty clearly number 2 to Orr. But there are a lot of great D-Men out there.
@@PFB1994 Salming was to the Maple Leafs what Serge Savard was to the Canadiens. Both d-men had admirable, and amazing levels of endurance. Salming's performance in game 1 of the 1979 preliminary round against Atlanta, and especially in the third period, would make you shake your head. He barely stepped off the ice during those twenty minutes.
Montreal had four of the greatest defenseman of all time at the same dam time. That said Orr is #1 as he introduced the offensive defenseman and changed the game forever. This from a diehard Leaf fan by the way.
Longtime Bruins fan here, with a lot of memories of disappointments at the hands and skates of the Habs. Without question, Robinson was a brilliant player, worthy of all the accolades he got. Even on teams as insanely talented as the Habs put out there night after night, he stood out. But I still have to go with Orr. (Nick Lidstrom was no slouch, either.)
I'm a habs fan, i always was and always will and i totally agree with you. Orr was not only good at offence, he was also good in his zone. Not as Robinson in his zone but not like let say a Matheson who is horrible in his zone. Robinson was dangerously effective if you where thinking you had space to pass wich help shutdown any kind of foward rush from others team. He was also not the guy you could let play as he wish because he can put it in. If you ask me wich one i want in my team, i will ask you what kind of team i have because the only time i will choose Robinson over Orr is if i have so much power with my foward that i dont realy need Orr and need a more allrounded def.
I remember one of the battles of Quebec in the playoffs and the bench brawls. Robinson was up against the glass during a bench clearing brawl, grabbed two Nordiques players and smacked them together like a couple slices of meat then dropped them. That's when i realised his strength. 6'4" and 225 pounds nicknamed Big Bird by some.
Orr is simply the GOAT. He changed the game and much like Tom Brady ,he made his teammates better around him too. Robinson was a great defenseman,no doubt , but how many Hall of Famers did he play with? Id easily pay my hard earned money to see Larry play.
My two all-time favourite hockey players were Bobby Orr and Mike Bossy. Could you imagine the career numbers they would've reached had they not been forced to retire at the young age of 30?!
Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of the 20th century. Yes, the arguments that Larry Robinson may be the greatest defenceman of all-time are valid but NOBODY overlooks Larry Robinson's in discussions about the best defenseman. Anyone over the age of 55 who followed hockey as a young kid knows that Larry was one of the NHL's best defenseman after Bobby Orr's retirement. It wouldn't be easy to say definitively that he was the best during his prime because his career coincided with those of Denis Potvin, Serge Savard, Guy Lappointe, Brad Park Borje Salming and even Randy Carlyle in the 80-81 season. Again, NOBODY who knows hockey would overlook Larry Robinson. As for the statements of his greatness, you're preaching to the choir.
I will add a telling stat to my earlier comment. Larry had this monumental + - stat, a whopping untouchable + 722 in the regular season and an equally impressive +100 in the playoffs. He accomplished this in 1384 regular games and 227 playoff games. Bobby had a career +582 in 657 games and + 60 in 74 playoff games!! Folks, that is almost a +1 per game!!! Think about this, it is amazing, +1 per game!!! Orr's impact on the game is unmatched, even by Gretz and Lemieux.
@@jbqu3142 No, but Bossy was a great scorer. Plus/minus is a bit more relevant for defensive players because they are certainly more involved with the minus factor. Orr ‘s plus/minus is sick compared to anyone else.
@@ehoffman2260 it's not No, it's Yes. NHL history goal per game ratio: #1 Mike Bossy 0.762 #2 Mario Lemieux 0.754..............#7 Wayne Gretzky 0.601 #8 Ovechkin 0.600. I correct you: Robinson's plus/minus is more than sick, it's exceptional, unique and #1 in NHL history.
I'm now 72 and have seen them all. Larry Robinson shares the top ranking as best all-around defensemen along with Bobby Orr. Right behind them were Harvey, Savard, Lidstrom and Potvin. Robinson together with Serge Savard was the greatest defensive pair ever to play the game.
Habs fan who remembers Robinson. The thing about the Habs dynasty of the 70s was while undoubtedly a finesse team they could be physical and the reason why they could mix it up with the Broadstreet Bullies and Big Bad Bruins was because of players like Bob Gainey and Larry Robinson who were both very quiet but you didn't want to piss them off or they'd swing you around like a doll. Loved that aspect of their game. And Lafleur wasn't afraid to defend himself either. Robinson was a specimen who could do it all. Skate, pass, hit, rush and score. Robinson, Gainey, Dryden, Lemaire and Lafleur were the backbone of a dynasty. PS: Harvey and Pierre Pilote (Blackhawks) are also severely under stated,
I watched those great Habs teams of the 1970s, and the joke went that they were so good that the only time they faced a rival as tough is during a split-squad game! Many hockey historians rate the 1976-1977 team as the finest ever to lace 'em up. And "Big Bird" - Larry Robinson - was the heart and soul of those squads along with the other core guys. I can'r remember the date or time precisely, but I remember when Robinson flattened someone from the Broad Street Bullies after the Flyers had attempted to throw their weight around, and ole Larry stepped up and put an end to that right quick. New sheriff in town! He was the complete package: Smart, durable, tough, skilled, a great leader, you name it, he could do it.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 The Montreal Canadiens outshot Soviet Red Army powerhouse 38-13 in a 3-3 tie in 1975 widely regarded as the greatest game ever at the hallowed Montreal Forum. They matched the artistry and finesse of the Soviets. If Dryden didn't have an uncharacteristic off night and the great Tretiak wasn't Herculean the Habs win the game. Robinson of course partook in the game, They allowed them....13 shots. That's how good the Habs were. And the 70s saw many great teams - Bruins, Blackhawks, Flyers, and Rangers specifically. Even the Sabres were solid. None were slouches and each with their superstars. But the Canadiens towered over them.
@@paulkhrooger3556- Yes, let's not forget about those amazing Red Army teams. They and the Habs were an amazing match-up. Tretiak is in the HHoF alongside Dryden now, and rightly so. I'm with you, the 1970s were a great time to be a hockey fan. Some classic match-ups and rivalries, but Montreal beat them all. I don't know if we'll ever see dynasties like those again, simply because of how large the league has become and the parity within the game. If you haven't yet read it, Dryden's "The Game" is a classic of hockey literature by one of the best minds in the game.
Hold on there Champ, don't start getting carried away...we all love Larry but his plus/minus number of +730 is based on playing in 1,384 regular NHL games and 20 seasons while Bobby Orr only played 10 full seasons and had a plus / minus of +597. In only 10 full seasons, so that's very purposely misleading schmucky not to have mentioned that. If he had played 10 more seasons like Robinson his plus / minus would have been way over a +1,000. Just remember that Orr achieved so much with only one functioing knee that was at times, also wonky...
Perhaps. +/- is not a cumulative statistic. It's possible that had Orr played an additional 10 years his +/- might have risen only a small amount; it might have even decreased (though admittedly not likely).
Larry was great, and helped keep the fighting of the 1970s from getting completely out of control. But there is no actual debate around the greatest d-man.
It was a long time ago, but I think I can still remember Robinson cleaning the clock of Dave Schultz of the Flyers back in the day.... Montreal had enough of being pushed around and decided to show the Broad Street Bullies just who was boss.... and "Big Bird" was the man to do it!
I agree with you , he was one of the top five in NHL history but as a CH fan , the only one who made me up of my chair was Bobby Orr. With Grezky and Lemieux no one dominate the hockey like him. He had the half of the career of all the others , imagine if he was in shape 17 years...And yes Doug Harvey is in the top 5...
Orr is the greatest D-man of all time. It is comical to suggest anyone else gets close. Robinson may not even be the greatest d-man for the Canadiens as Doug Harvey has to be the player to beat. Robinson is definitely up there with the best and I loved watching him play, but Orr is arguably the best player of all time, forget about just d-men.
When it comes to comparing +/- to Orr don't forget the big three on defense (Robinson, Savard and Lapointe) and the great goaltending and dominant offense the Habs had. In saying this I agree Robinson is an all-time great
Yup. I grew up a Habs fan watching Robinson play on their dynasty teams. While Robinson was great, no one was as great as Bobby Orr, who also won two Art Ross trophies as the NHL's leading scorer.
Completely objective but hard to argue with. I was NEVER a habs fan but there are several habs players I had to respect. Big Bird was most definitely one of them. Dude was a bad ass for sure.
I watched every game Larry played in Montreal. Also watched Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr. Its: 1.Orr 2. Larry 3. Bourque The only one as talented offensively as Orr was Coffey.
@@bobmatley Different kind of player than Orr. Harvey was a fantastic passer of the puck and his effectiveness on the PP was unquestioned. Orr DOMINATED entire games and seasons !!! Harvey, I don't believe was a primary PK defenseman either for the Habs. Orr killed penalties all by himself frequently playing keepaway for most of the kill.
As a Bruin fan I admired Robinson for his ability to force his will on the opposition and a game. He was truly a great one. I do have to question the +/- comparison between Orr and Big Bird. Orr's career total of +582 in 657 games and Robinson total of +722 in 1384 games. Maybe a more accurate reflection would be a +/- per game comparison Orr .88 and Robinson .57. Both stats are amazing, imagine playing against Larry knowing that you're already behind by 1/2 goal in any game. What I really admired about Big Bird was how he could play the Top Cop role, look what he did to the Broad Street Bullies and the Big Bad Bruins. Robinson was excellent and deserves every accolade given to him. Thanks for all the memories, but I'm still suffering from all those missed opportunities of winning the cups through the late 70's, I hate the Canadiens.
I am 63 and grew up in Montreal. My father had season tickets, so I saw Larry and Bobby play live at the Forum countless times. I passionately hated the Bruins, and I still do. Wayne was the only player I ever saw live that thrilled me more than Bobby. Sorry pal, Bobby was the greatest defenceman of all time. Not even close! Go Habs Go!
A good case can be made that Robinson and sometimes Denis Potvin were the greatest all round players of their generation because of the multiple ways they could control the tempo of a game and the number of minutes they played. But when the Canadian team lost 6-0 to the Soviets in the Challenge Cup and 8-1 two years later in the Canada Cup, these two were on the ice for many of the Soviet goals.
When you consider that "gap" in +/- don't forget that Robinson's career was almost twice as long as Orr's, plus the fact that he had The Octopus in goal behind him early, and Roy later in his career.. And Orr was the one who revolutionized the position, making it possible for coaches to allow a good skating D-man like Larry to rush the puck. I rank Larry as #2 of all time, ahead of Lidstrom and Bourque
Larry "Big Bird" was one of the greatest and he played on a GREAT team.. I am 60 years old and my Dad and brothers watched these guys since the early 70's and we loved to HATE these guys but we had the utmost respect for them. With Danny Gallivan calling the play by play it was a real thrill to watch it all. Two of the greatest memories was Grapes standing on the boards and the Big Bird straightening out Dave Scwultz(Legend) at the Forum. Man oh man the memories of Lafleur and company. Thanks for the memories Larry it was a real joy watching one of the greatest D men of all time. You were a force and a great defenceman.. I carry my Dad and bros memories with these great years.
Bobby was not to be discredited for the lack of medical advancement. if he'd have played a little later he could have been repaired quicker+more effectively! NO ONE COULD DO THE THINGS THAT HE COULD DO.as far as Cups, woulda won more but for W.H.A. Signing lotta B's
Larry Robinson - solid team defensemen supporting a cast of the best Montreal Canadiens ever. I grew up in a neighbourhood where it was not uncommon to see Guy Lafleur, Yvan Cournoyer, or Jacques Lemaire walking out of the local corner store or at the local city rink (Beaconsfield). A buddy from high school recalled watching Larry and Bob Gainey in Gainey’s back yard moving a BBQ. I remember selling Craven A reds to Guy. Rest his soul. Those were the days.
Bobby Orr was the best player ever! But I love this video because Larry was amazing and yes absolutely overlooked as a player and defensemen.. He was so special so great video for a great man
There have been many great defensemen since I started following hockey in 1961 and I can say that Larry is easily among the top 20 and the only one who stands out as number 1 is Orr. The rest you could argue about forever. I am sure about one thing and that is Larry is the best Habs defenseman I have ever known.
The plus minus record of a player will be affected by the quality of the team around him. A team with high scorers and a great goaltender will certainly affect that number. Robin was a great player/defenseman. He also had a great goaltender in Ken Dryden and teams that were great skaters. Orr joined the Bruins when they were in the cellar and brought them into contention very quickly. I understand this video is just a teaser to get clicks and create a discussion or controversy. Good Job!
Larry Robinson is the greatest of all time. Even today, he is still greatest player of all time. HAND DOWN!!!!!!! I miss the seventy’s hockey were fantastic compared today hockey.
Robinson has always been undervalued by the pundits. From the moment he joined the league, he was dominant. In that era, size was viewed as a liability. He used it as an advantage. I am so glad he is finally being recognized as one of the greatest.
Say what you want about their goaltending after Ken Dryden retired but fact remains Richard Sevigny was still an outstanding goaltender. How many losses did the Canadiens have at the Forum that year ? The Oilers won both games at the Forum in the 1981 playoffs and the series in three straight games in a best of five. I met Yvon Lambert in 2015 and he was on that team and he's still disappointed that my Oilers beat them in 1981.
@Mike-l7y5y I wonder if the Habs were infected with the "it's just a WHA team" mental illness that it seemed many of the well-established franchises had at the time....
@@С.А.Л It could be. It's difficult to say. The NHL playoff schedule was disgusting at that time. Number 1 vs 16, 2 vs. 15 , etc. Try that today, I doubt anyone would want that.
Nope, not a chance. Bobby Orr was by far the best. Larry Robinson was an excellent defenseman in his own right but Orr could do everything Robinson could do and more. Orr’s only downfall was the length of his career.
He played in an era where the Canadiens played all weak teams about 4 or 5 times a year. That hurts any team like Golden Seals, Rockies and Canucks. That's one thing. Secondly, Dryden was way better than everyone else except maybe for Tony Esposito or Bernie Parent. Thirdly, it doesn't hurt to have Savard or Lapointe back there in case you mess up. Fourthly, after the Canadiens made a trade to get Doug Jarvis, their last weakness in faceoffs was no more as Jarvis was likely the second best faceoff player in NHL history after either Stan Mikita or Bobby Clarke. When you're getting puck possession 60 -65% of the time and you're facing quite a lot of crappy teams more than 3 times every year you're in a good position to get huge plus/minus numbers. Some have suggested that the 1970's and 1980's without any really big salaries except for maybe Marcel Dionne and Dave Taylor of the Los Angeles Kings made the best players play WAY better than today. Possible. But fact remains, the Canadiens for years were a DEFENSIVE powerhouse and their go to game was defense so hearing it day in and day out made Robinson's environment that much better for him to achieve those numbers.
@@neutralevil1917 Thanks. I looked at the stats from today, no team seems to come close to the 1974-75 Capitals, 1980-81 Jets or 1992-93 Sharks. A team would have to go 30 or 40 games without a win these days to join those sad sack clubs. But with the overtime and shootout structure nowadays it's very difficult to do so.
Very true assessment. Same situation with Mike Bossy. He rarely got enough consideration as one of the great goal scorers. Seemed to be overlooked in the conversations. To be clear, I am not an Islander or Bossy fan necessarily, but when he was playing against your team, and he was on the right center dot, and the puck went to him, you knew it was in. I am a Habs fan, so on a few occassions when that was the situation, my comment was "Oh Sh&t". Similar to Ovechkin, but other side. Not many other players you can say that about...Lemieux on a break away was another.
Lol I'm a Habs fan. I watched Larry Robinson play. He was really good. Big, tough, no nonsense, skated surprisingly well for his size, racked up goals and assists won the power play and at even strength. For modern comparators , he was analogous to big D-men like Pronger, Chara, Weber, Pietrangelo and Weber. In short, Robinson did it all, but he was no Bobby Orr, nor was he even a Ray Bourque who I would rank as the number2 defenseman of all time--and this is coming from a die-hard Habs fan. Robinson played on great teams and also in particular, on great defensive teams. No doubt he was a big part of them, however, he was also flanked by fellow big D-men like Lapointe, Savard, Langway and Bouchard. Bobby Orr'r stats speak for themselves so I don't take that argument seriously. However, a player like Bourque is a fairer comparison, however Robinson still falls short. Unlike Robinson, Ray Bourque was typically the best player on his team team. He played an absolute brilliant echnical and physical defensive game and was always one of, if not the the top point scorer on his team. Although I wouldn't rank Niklas Lidstrom no. 3 ( i.e., after Orr and Bourque), I think he represents a more realistic comparator.
Bobby's skating skills were unmatched in those days. He could go from zero to fast in an a couple strides. Very explosive. Robinson used his size to great effect. Both of them were in a class of their own. Comparing them is like trying to determine if Ali was better than Tyson. The question has no answer.
Bobby Orr 8 × Norris Trophy, Harvey and Lidstrom 7 × Norris Trophy, Bourque 5 × Norris Trophy ... Larry Robinson 2 × Norris Trophy. For sure Robinson is one of the greatest defensmen in NHL history and he was a key player in Habs team that won several Stanley Cups in the 70s.
There's one simple reason he is overlooked - he played on the Habs, a team that was stacked to the brim, had three star defensemen, plus the best goalie of the day.
You are obviously tooo young to remember that Bobby Ore was definitely the best defenseman and possibly the best player. Robinson was great along with many others. As a former Leaf fan, remember Tim Horton and others.
I am a BIG HABS fan and loved Robinson but let's face Bobby Orr was the greatest defenceman to ever play the game. Not as tough???? Orr took 50 fighting majors as a Bruin.
@@24tippper That many ? 50 fights, wow. Who did he fight the most ? The only fisticuff I remember was the one in the 1971 playoffs when he had to be restrained by half the Bruins team against the Canadiens. He wanted to pummel the referee for calling a sketchy penalty.
Robinson did NOT change both the way defensemen played, and, more importantly, how coaching philosophy in regard to defensemen was revolutionized. Bobby Orr did that.
I just want to add that Robinson had all the other attributes one admires in a real champion ... humility, physically tough, unselfish, superb playmaker and incredible durability which enabled him to sustain a long playing career.
I'm Orr then Potvin. Maybe Park and Robinson then. Savard is a top shelf guy who without the two leg breaks would have had an even more amazing career. And from different era's Eddie Shore and Doug Harvey. Bourque is in the discussion for greatest defenseman of all time. Maybe half the defender Potvin was. Maybe. He had perhaps the greatest career of any defenseman but nowhere near the greatest defenseman of all time. Lidstrom is amazing. Larry Robinson looked super awkward his first couple years. His brother Moe never got past that awkward stage. Moe had 40 points in 64 games with the Voyageurs in the AHL but it never translated to the NHL. He was another 6'3" kid but it seemed like he had a lighter frame than Larry. I don't think Larry Robinson is being overlooked. Is He? Honestly Bourque was great too, but maybe 10th 11th best all time. 22 Years so great longevity and great offensive numbers.
Bourque was a 13 times 1st Team All-Star and 6 times 2nd Team All-Star total of 19 times 1st or second. Noboby beats that at any position. He his a top 5 for sure.
It was before I started watching (around 1986), but it BOGGLES MY MIND that the Canadians ALSO had a young Rod Langway, and they traded him to washington. IMAGINE BOTH ON THE SAME TEAM FOR THE ENTIRE 80's.
Nope. Outstanding D-man, no question, but having seen 6 decades of hockey, it's still Orr, all day long. He could skate rings around Larry, as much as I liked Big Bird. Larry had HOF D-men LaPointe & Savard on that team. Orr did not have the same supporting cast, but was in a class by himself. If I could have any player from the 'modern era' (60's forward) to start a team it would still be Orr over everybody including Gretzky. To be clear, I mean the Orr prior to his knee injury that having been mishandled, eventually led to the premature end of his career.
There are two kinds of greatness: greatness at their peak, and the greatness sustained over an entire career. For peak greatness, it's hard to beat Bobby Orr.
If you want to look at a Defenseman that is completely overlooked then I nominate one Brad Park. Park played in EVERY All-Star Game in the 70's (except 79) and was runner up for the Norris 5 times in that span. When he retired he was the leading scorer amongst Defenseman in the history of the New York Rangers and second to Bobby Orr all-time for the Bruins.
mentioning any player other then Bobby Orr as the greatest defencemen if not the greatest player of all time really shows your lack of hockey knowledge
@ there was a point where Robinson’s plus/minus numbers were larger then Orr’s. But nothing was mentioned that Orr retired in 1976 and Robinson played into the 1980’s. And of course how do you forget all the Norris trophies and only one of two defence men to win the Hart
No disrespect to Larry Robinson -- he absolutely was a great defenseman -- but as good as he was, sorry, he was NOT the "GOAT." The only GOAT when it comess to NHL defensemen is the incomparable Bobby Orr. He utterly REVOLUTIONIZED the position, and all the greats who came after him merely stand on his shoulders. If modern orthopedic and surgical medicine, modern training, and modern injury recovery methods had been in existance when he played (not to mention today's tighter rules enforcement on injurious and dangerous play and cheap shots ... and today's better, lighter, and more protective equipment), there is NO TELLING how much even greater his already eye-watering stats would be from a far lengthier and impactful career. The fact that Bobby Orr is STILL in the conversation as the GOAT -- the platinum standard -- some 50 years after crippling knee injuries and surgeries robbed him of his career tells you all you need to know about his UNMATCHED GREATNESS. And I can say this with all honesty, impartiality, and respect because I'm NOT a "Bruins homer." "My team is actually one of the Bruins' rivals !!!
Nobody's alongside Bobby Orr, not even close. I'll bet that you never saw him play. Robinson is one of the greats that's for sure but Orr is on his own level. By the way, Robinson has played 1384 games, most of his games with a great team including the best team ever in the 2nd half of the 70's. Orr played 657 games... Not even half of Robinson's games! The +- comparison shows how dominant Orr was. Anyway, the +- is more of a team quality comparison than anything. Not very relevant. If Robinson played for Washington and Colorado back then he wouldn't be a +722!
Robinson was also a factor in the success they had and had an impact when he was with the Kings. Even that late into his career he was still playing well.
The argument is deeply flawed... Bobby Orr's career pretty much ended at the age of 27 after 9 healthy seasons (played 26 games TOTAL after the spring of 1975... on 1 leg!) * though the conclusion might be accurate because of his physical presence in the defensive zone. Orr was feared because of his speed (when healthy) and his vision on the ice, Robinson was feared because of his physical presence! * Comparing the +/- career total of each is downright indecent, even dishonest, as Robinson played 12 more COMPLETE seasons (866 more games) than Orr. To set the record straight, Orr's +/- career average per game was 0.886 while Robinson's was 0.522... on a much more talented CH team to boot!
@@beyond_thebench The title for the video is a clear statement "Meet the greatest", not a question & the data is flawed. So if the process is deeply distorted, the argument has no more value than the paper it's written on... whatever the identity of the player chosen!
Larry Robinson is definitely underrated and fly under the radar for those that never saw him in his prime….that said the question of greatness defenseman of all time begins and ends with #4. Who can be legitimately argued as the greatest player in NHL history
All good points. He's definitely up there.
I'm 62 and have watched all of these guys play throughout the years.
He was a force to be reckoned with.
Orr is the greatest
Robinson was great no doubt but not the goat
It’s Orr
Bobby Orr was dynamite and if it wasn't for Nicklas Lidstrom, the Red Wings never would have won all those Cups. The thing is, nobody talks about Scott Stevens, dirty at times yes but do you think it was all Brodeur when New Jersey won all their Cups ? Stevens was unreal, I felt bad for any forward trying to go around him.
@@Mike-l7y5y
Absolutely
Steven’s is in there no doubt
If Steven’s played for the Rangers there would be a statue outside MSG
@@rethink62 Thank you ! And you're right. I couldn't believe Stevens at the time in the late 1990's and early 2000's. He was like captain crunch, that superb hip check defenseman in the form of Gilles Marotte who played with Bobby Orr on those woeful 1966-67 Bruins.
Meet this legend played a game against him, what a great skater so graceful and effortlessly he glided across the ice, I asked him of I could buy him a beer after the game, he said no I’ll buy you one , so he bought me a beer and hung out with me for an hour , class , gentleman , and a wonderful human being. And signed a card for me, I was young at the time I didn’t understand who I was talking too or how much of a pioneer of the game he really was, I knew of him and I was so honored to have a beer with him and just stand next to him and now finding out what a legend he was just gives me chills, thank you Mr Robinson , never forget that night, god bless
Larry Robinson was a great person as well as a great player. He was a joy to be around even after losing a game. His wife was wonderful, too. A fantastic couple!
Robinson changed the game when he flattened Gary Dornhoefer in the 1976 Stanley Cup finals so hard they had to stop the game and fix the board at the Forum. It was at that exact moment the Philadelphia Flyers and the entire hockey world realized that violence, goons and fighting was not going to be enough anymore. With Robinson leading the charge, the Habs crushed the Flyers.
@@Mr_Spock512
The Schultz fight was at the begining of the season I think, Big Bird and the Habs sending a message to the bullies that their intimidating days were over
Philly scored goals to win
@@dylanryan8241 This was in 1976. The Montreal Canadiens put an end to the violence and disgrace after the Flyers won in 1974 & 1975. Since that hit, well your beloved flyers have not been scoring enough goals to win!
@@benoitforget2497 I am a Habs fan, the memorabilia is all over my house... Violence helped the Flyers, but you need to score goals to win a hockey game! The irony is that Robinson and the habs used Violence against the Flyers to help them win.
The Flyers had a HOF goalie and some of the greatest skaters in the history of the sport lol. They did not “win through violence”. The Habs in 76 were a better team with more talent. The end.
Looking at this video I am reminded when I was young seeing Larry Robinson skating backward in his zone with a offensive player coming at him…Larry leaving just enought room along the board and daring him to try and pass and then BOOM, hip check,door closed, always clean…offensive guy on his butt and Larry getting the puck in the corner…😊
I frickin’ HATED the Habs, especially in the ‘70’s when the Bruins were my team until the hometown Oilers joined the NHL.
But for sometime, I’ve maintained that Larry Robinson was the greatest all-around defenseman EVER. Nobody had that complete game like him, (Pronger’s the closest one since)…120 feet, could fight with the best of em & lead like a Champion‼️
RESPECT‼️
🇨🇦
I know many Bruin fans that hated the Habs in the 70s. They sure got in the Bruins way
The Oilers are still the best. Wayne Gretzky made everyone forget about Randy Gregg and Steve Smith. And they both played like Robinson.
@
They wish they played like Robinson!?
I had an Oiler Dynasty season ticket, was there on May 19, 1984, when we dethroned the great Islanders, ending their 4 straight year reign. Gretzky WASN’T THE ONLY ONE, (he NEVER won another Cup after he was traded)…check ALL those HOF banners hanging in the rafters. 💤
Raymond Bourque would like a word.
@@Mike-l7y5yGregg and Steve? 😂😂 Funny
I grew up in NYC and when playing hockey I wore #19, Fellow players thought it was for either Jean Ratelle or Bryan Trottier but, nope, it was for Larry Robinson. I don't know if he was THE greatest, but he was my favorite player as a kid hockey fan and low level player. Of course I always played defense. And, by coincidence, my favorite baseball player was Brooks Robinson, but I don't think they were related.
Lapointe, Savard, Robinson, any team would have been happy with just one of them. Imagine a team with all three. That was the Canadiens in the seventies. The greatness came from the back.
Bull's eye! It is evident when you look at the current team, the defense being quite weak.
@@jean-louislalonde6070 The current D is embarrassing-watching them stand around. At least Jordan Harris played hard and was rarely out of position.
We used to say in the late 70s : the sun rises in the east, sets in the west and the Montreal Canadiens win the Stanley Cup.
If J.C.Tremblay had stayed with the Habs......4 solid all star #1 #2 D lines on one team
@@quiricomazarin476 😎👍
Saw every defenseman from Tim Horton on up. Larry was incredible and unrivaled. That being said Orr is unquestionably the GOAT.
ABSOLUTELY
Bobby Orr is the best because he revolutionized defensemen's roles, combining unmatched offensive skill with elite defensive capabilities.
Not to mention that he could be effective in today's game with his speed and skating ability don't believe the others could not and I'm a Leafs fan but c gotta be honest 😂
Qt years later who is still dominating? Robinson was also a great coach!
@@josephnakoochee8865 There is no debate that Orr was the best. The point is Robinson’s overall game and impact on winning was second to none. He deserves to be talked about in the same breath as the Bourque and Potvins etc..
He was quite "standard" as a defenseman behind his own blue line...
Doug Harvey did that 30 years earlier...snore fans.
Still remember the goal showed twice around 5:30 when I was a kid watching the best hockey team on Earth. Robinson was indeed a great player who showed great respect to his fans, he even learned French. Those were the days.
Bobby Orr by far!!
Bobby Orr & Larry Robinson age 22 : Robinson had 26 Points. Zero Awards. Orr : 139 Points & won every NHL Award he available to him.
Orr was peaking larry was a building a legacy
LOL, as the habs were breaking him in as a rookie...that was his least productive year. A better comparison would be at 26. They'd be close but Orr does get the slight nod.
You are completely missing the point. Robinson was one of the best defensive defence man 5:31 ever.
He deserves more credit for his accomplishments!
Nobody wants to talk about Larry’s plus/minus record. Guy could do it all and did it for 20 years. He is still underrated today.
Being great,longgivtivity is part of it,Orr didn't have that,he couldn't handle the physical grind of the NHL,THATS THE FACT JACK,POTVIN WAS A BETTER DEFENSE, JUST PURE DEFENSE, IF YOU PLAY ON A TEAM THAT HAS PLENTY OF SCORES,YOU DONT HAVE TO TAKE A CHANCE ,LIKE ORR ALWAYS DID,AND GET CAUGHT OUT OF POSITION, COULD ORR CHECK,COULD HE FIGHT,WHAT IM SAYING,THERE IS MORE TO IT THEN JUST SCORE,ROBINSON ,POTVIN,HAD TWO,THREE TIMES CUBS AS ORR,WHY ?
Orr was the best and most revolutionary ! Robinson had the best long career and was the best skilled in combination with toughness !
Robinson, like many others, was a super defenseman. But, there were a lot of great players, great forwards, great defenders, all stars, etc., etc. .......and then there was Bobby Orr. Period. End of story. There was just no one like him.
Bullshit! Bobby Orr changed the game of hockey forever. Robinson only followed in Orr’s footsteps. Bobby Orr was not only the greatest defenseman the NHL had ever seen, but he was the GREATEST player in the history of the NHL, because changed hockey!!!
I grew up a Habs fan. Robinson was a great defenseman. I played defense as a kid. He was my favorite player. That is who I wanted to be. But Bobby Orr is BY FAR the best ever. No question. Anyone who says anyone other than ORR is the GOAT is wrong.
Fair to say!
Fully agree & I’ve been a Habs fan my whole life. I’m 69. Orr is in a class by himself.
100% AGREE
You can't argue between those. One had a shortened career because of injuries and the other one was uninjurable.
@@lareau6but longevity alone can’t be the only argument. I feel like Orr’s 8 Norris trophies in such a short career exemplify his dominance over the position like no other. It is always Orr first and everyone else can fight for 2nd.
Larry was one of the very best.
Better than any European or Russian. He could do everything on the ice surface, and he could hit.
Orr wasn't just the best defenceman, he is the best player I have witnessed.
Orr was beyond incredible. What some people forget is Robinson (and team mates) stood up to the Flyers whose approach was brutality not skill. The best players are team players, different game today but same principles apply.
Shame you never got to witness Lemieux or Gretzky.
Who was it that said that Bobby Orr on one leg was better than the rest of us on two in the 1976 Canada Cup ? Was it Bobby Clarke ? Correct me if I'm wrong.
@@Mike-l7y5y YES !!! It was Bobby Clarke.
@@wingedbuffalo4670 I knew it !!! Bobby Orr was playing junior hockey as a wiry, pimpled 14 year old with MEN of 19 and 20 years old. Essentially 60-80 pounds heavier and he dominated the bigger guys.
Sorry, but considering Orr was a defenseman, as good as Larry was, Bobby was not only the greatest defenseman but a case can be made for him being the greatest, period.
Both Gretzky and Orr agreed and said the best player ever was Mario Lemieux.
When I saw that this video was about the greatest defenseman ever I thought it was about Bobby Orr!
We still love Bobby though!
And if a video is titled “The Greatest Defenseman of all time” it should be Bobby Orr. I concur.
#4 Bobby Orr. No Question G.O.A.T. After that you can talk about who is the distant second best.
I am a Hab fan who witnessed the NHL from the late 60's up until now, so I saw the carriers of all those great defensemen except for Doug Harvey: Orr, Potvin, Coffey, Lidstrom, Bourque, Salming, Robinson, Pronger and Fetisov. I absolutely loved Robinson. What a stud for the Habs. But I think the debate on who is the greatest ever on defence doest not exist. There is no question, whatsoever, that it is Bobby Orr. Offensively of course, but also the complete game: Orr was tough as nail, he was extremely good in his zone and of course, he could take the puck out of his zone like no one else ever. I think however that the questions remains on who was the second best ever. If I would have to pick the D to build a team with, aside from Orr, who would I pick? To me the choice is between Lidstrom, Bourque and Robinson. Hard to set those 3 apart, but I think they are all 3 one notch above the others.
Thank you for including Salming in the mix. Orr is tough to beat, but I think Salming is left out of the conversation too often. I think Lidstrom is pretty clearly number 2 to Orr. But there are a lot of great D-Men out there.
@@PFB1994 Salming was to the Maple Leafs what Serge Savard was to the Canadiens. Both d-men had admirable, and amazing levels of endurance. Salming's performance in game 1 of the 1979 preliminary round against Atlanta, and especially in the third period, would make you shake your head. He barely stepped off the ice during those twenty minutes.
Montreal had four of the greatest defenseman of all time at the same dam time. That said Orr is #1 as he introduced the offensive defenseman and changed the game forever. This from a diehard Leaf fan by the way.
Ill take Orr any day of the week. Even Robinson stated how great Orr was when they paired in the 76 Canada Cup
He has to, but Larry's Cups were still coming, and also as a coach, and the greatest plus/minus by far... Big Bird all the way!
Longtime Bruins fan here, with a lot of memories of disappointments at the hands and skates of the Habs. Without question, Robinson was a brilliant player, worthy of all the accolades he got. Even on teams as insanely talented as the Habs put out there night after night, he stood out. But I still have to go with Orr. (Nick Lidstrom was no slouch, either.)
I'm a habs fan, i always was and always will and i totally agree with you. Orr was not only good at offence, he was also good in his zone. Not as Robinson in his zone but not like let say a Matheson who is horrible in his zone.
Robinson was dangerously effective if you where thinking you had space to pass wich help shutdown any kind of foward rush from others team. He was also not the guy you could let play as he wish because he can put it in.
If you ask me wich one i want in my team, i will ask you what kind of team i have because the only time i will choose Robinson over Orr is if i have so much power with my foward that i dont realy need Orr and need a more allrounded def.
I remember one of the battles of Quebec in the playoffs and the bench brawls. Robinson was up against the glass during a bench clearing brawl, grabbed two Nordiques players and smacked them together like a couple slices of meat then dropped them. That's when i realised his strength. 6'4" and 225 pounds nicknamed Big Bird by some.
Orr is simply the GOAT. He changed the game and much like Tom Brady ,he made his teammates better around him too. Robinson was a great defenseman,no doubt , but how many Hall of Famers did he play with? Id easily pay my hard earned money to see Larry play.
WAKE UP! Tom Brady did not change the game of Football!
If Bobby Orr had played 17 seasons, he probably would have surpassed Robinson's +722.
Possibly!
Easily
Probably????? Definitely!!!
My two all-time favourite hockey players were Bobby Orr and Mike Bossy. Could you imagine the career numbers they would've reached had they not been forced to retire at the young age of 30?!
bobby orr = the GOAT
Hard to argue against that tbh
You must be unaware of N. Lidström.
Bobby Orr is the greatest hockey player of the 20th century.
Yes, the arguments that Larry Robinson may be the greatest defenceman of all-time are valid but NOBODY overlooks Larry Robinson's in discussions about the best defenseman. Anyone over the age of 55 who followed hockey as a young kid knows that Larry was one of the NHL's best defenseman after Bobby Orr's retirement. It wouldn't be easy to say definitively that he was the best during his prime because his career coincided with those of Denis Potvin, Serge Savard, Guy Lappointe, Brad Park Borje Salming and even Randy Carlyle in the 80-81 season.
Again, NOBODY who knows hockey would overlook Larry Robinson. As for the statements of his greatness, you're preaching to the choir.
Bobby Orr is the Wayne Gretzky of defense.
That would Be N. Lidsröm.
I will add a telling stat to my earlier comment. Larry had this monumental + - stat, a whopping untouchable + 722 in the regular season and an equally impressive +100 in the playoffs. He accomplished this in 1384 regular games and 227 playoff games. Bobby had a career +582 in 657 games and + 60 in 74 playoff games!! Folks, that is almost a +1 per game!!! Think about this, it is amazing, +1 per game!!! Orr's impact on the game is unmatched, even by Gretz and Lemieux.
Exactly, Robinson was great, but Orr’s plus/minus per game is far superior to anyone else that has ever played.
@@ehoffman2260 same goes for goals per game, so Mike Bossy is the best scorer of all time, not Gretzky, not Lemieux, not Ovechkin,etc.
@@jbqu3142 No, but Bossy was a great scorer. Plus/minus is a bit more relevant for defensive players because they are certainly more involved with the minus factor. Orr ‘s plus/minus is sick compared to anyone else.
@ it's not No, it's yes.
Bossy #1 in NHL history gpp/ratio 0.762
Lemieux #2 in NHL history gpp/ratio
@@ehoffman2260 it's not No, it's Yes.
NHL history goal per game ratio: #1 Mike Bossy 0.762 #2 Mario Lemieux 0.754..............#7 Wayne Gretzky 0.601 #8 Ovechkin 0.600.
I correct you: Robinson's plus/minus is more than sick, it's exceptional, unique and #1 in NHL history.
I'm now 72 and have seen them all. Larry Robinson shares the top ranking as best all-around defensemen along with Bobby Orr. Right behind them were Harvey, Savard, Lidstrom and Potvin.
Robinson together with Serge Savard was the greatest defensive pair ever to play the game.
Good video, but it's really Bobby Orr, then everyone else can battle to see who's coming in second.
Exactly
Absolutely. Orr is the GOAT. I'm glad I watched Orr every chance I got. The bonus for hockey is that he's always been a class act.
That said, Don Cherry has said that Larry Robinson would have made a perfect Bruin. I concur, especially in the old Boston Garden.
Habs fan who remembers Robinson. The thing about the Habs dynasty of the 70s was while undoubtedly a finesse team they could be physical and the reason why they could mix it up with the Broadstreet Bullies and Big Bad Bruins was because of players like Bob Gainey and Larry Robinson who were both very quiet but you didn't want to piss them off or they'd swing you around like a doll. Loved that aspect of their game. And Lafleur wasn't afraid to defend himself either. Robinson was a specimen who could do it all. Skate, pass, hit, rush and score. Robinson, Gainey, Dryden, Lemaire and Lafleur were the backbone of a dynasty. PS: Harvey and Pierre Pilote (Blackhawks) are also severely under stated,
I watched those great Habs teams of the 1970s, and the joke went that they were so good that the only time they faced a rival as tough is during a split-squad game! Many hockey historians rate the 1976-1977 team as the finest ever to lace 'em up. And "Big Bird" - Larry Robinson - was the heart and soul of those squads along with the other core guys. I can'r remember the date or time precisely, but I remember when Robinson flattened someone from the Broad Street Bullies after the Flyers had attempted to throw their weight around, and ole Larry stepped up and put an end to that right quick. New sheriff in town! He was the complete package: Smart, durable, tough, skilled, a great leader, you name it, he could do it.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 The Montreal Canadiens outshot Soviet Red Army powerhouse 38-13 in a 3-3 tie in 1975 widely regarded as the greatest game ever at the hallowed Montreal Forum. They matched the artistry and finesse of the Soviets. If Dryden didn't have an uncharacteristic off night and the great Tretiak wasn't Herculean the Habs win the game. Robinson of course partook in the game, They allowed them....13 shots. That's how good the Habs were. And the 70s saw many great teams - Bruins, Blackhawks, Flyers, and Rangers specifically. Even the Sabres were solid. None were slouches and each with their superstars. But the Canadiens towered over them.
@@paulkhrooger3556- Yes, let's not forget about those amazing Red Army teams. They and the Habs were an amazing match-up. Tretiak is in the HHoF alongside Dryden now, and rightly so. I'm with you, the 1970s were a great time to be a hockey fan. Some classic match-ups and rivalries, but Montreal beat them all. I don't know if we'll ever see dynasties like those again, simply because of how large the league has become and the parity within the game. If you haven't yet read it, Dryden's "The Game" is a classic of hockey literature by one of the best minds in the game.
Add Lupien, Chartraw, Rick Green
@@paulkhrooger3556 un fin connaisseur.
Hold on there Champ, don't start getting carried away...we all love Larry but his plus/minus number of +730 is based on playing in 1,384 regular NHL games and 20 seasons while Bobby Orr only played 10 full seasons and had a plus / minus of +597. In only 10 full seasons, so that's very purposely misleading schmucky not to have mentioned that. If he had played 10 more seasons like Robinson his plus / minus would have been way over a +1,000. Just remember that Orr achieved so much with only one functioing knee that was at times, also wonky...
😂 you’re right!
Perhaps. +/- is not a cumulative statistic. It's possible that had Orr played an additional 10 years his +/- might have risen only a small amount; it might have even decreased (though admittedly not likely).
Big Bird is one of my all time favorite defenseman. He would be in my all NHL history team
I've met him. Twice in person. His name is Bobby Orr.
Larry was great, and helped keep the fighting of the 1970s from getting completely out of control.
But there is no actual debate around the greatest d-man.
Bobby. Orr. #1. No argument work's. Robinson was tremendous. But.........everyone else is. At best. #2.
There is no debate. It's Orr by a mile.
Bobby Orr was and still the best.
He's always been top in my book. A complete player like no other. He could do it all. You should have shown a couple of fights.
It was a long time ago, but I think I can still remember Robinson cleaning the clock of Dave Schultz of the Flyers back in the day.... Montreal had enough of being pushed around and decided to show the Broad Street Bullies just who was boss.... and "Big Bird" was the man to do it!
I agree with you , he was one of the top five in NHL history but as a CH fan , the only one who made me up of my chair was Bobby Orr. With Grezky and Lemieux no one dominate the hockey like him. He had the half of the career of all the others , imagine if he was in shape 17 years...And yes Doug Harvey is in the top 5...
Bobby Orr....G.O.A.T....ONLY Defensemen Who Won Scorring Championship ! Only One To Change DULL NHL Playing Style ???
Orr is the greatest D-man of all time. It is comical to suggest anyone else gets close. Robinson may not even be the greatest d-man for the Canadiens as Doug Harvey has to be the player to beat.
Robinson is definitely up there with the best and I loved watching him play, but Orr is arguably the best player of all time, forget about just d-men.
When it comes to comparing +/- to Orr don't forget the big three on defense (Robinson, Savard and Lapointe) and the great goaltending and dominant offense the Habs had. In saying this I agree Robinson is an all-time great
Bobby Orr won 8 straight James Norris Memorial Trophies as the NHL's best defenseman...'nuff said.....
Yup. I grew up a Habs fan watching Robinson play on their dynasty teams. While Robinson was great, no one was as great as Bobby Orr, who also won two Art Ross trophies as the NHL's leading scorer.
The Norris Trophy should be renamed the Bobby Orr Trophy!
Completely objective but hard to argue with. I was NEVER a habs fan but there are several habs players I had to respect. Big Bird was most definitely one of them. Dude was a bad ass for sure.
Well I never thought of that, but I sure did enjoy watching the Canadiens through the 60's and 70's
I watched every game Larry played in Montreal. Also watched Ray Bourque and Bobby Orr. Its:
1.Orr
2. Larry
3. Bourque
The only one as talented offensively as Orr was Coffey.
Doug Harvey was so good the NHL changed the power play rule because of him.
@@bobmatley Different kind of player than Orr. Harvey was a fantastic passer of the puck and his effectiveness on the PP was unquestioned. Orr DOMINATED entire games and seasons !!! Harvey, I don't believe was a primary PK defenseman either for the Habs. Orr killed penalties all by himself frequently playing keepaway for most of the kill.
1st is N. Lidström 2nd can be either P. Coffey or B. Orr
As a Bruin fan I admired Robinson for his ability to force his will on the opposition and a game. He was truly a great one. I do have to question the +/- comparison between Orr and Big Bird. Orr's career total of +582 in 657 games and Robinson total of +722 in 1384 games. Maybe a more accurate reflection would be a +/- per game comparison Orr .88 and Robinson .57. Both stats are amazing, imagine playing against Larry knowing that you're already behind by 1/2 goal in any game. What I really admired about Big Bird was how he could play the Top Cop role, look what he did to the Broad Street Bullies and the Big Bad Bruins. Robinson was excellent and deserves every accolade given to him. Thanks for all the memories, but I'm still suffering from all those missed opportunities of winning the cups through the late 70's, I hate the Canadiens.
You're mostly right. Boy do I hate them Bruins.
I am 63 and grew up in Montreal. My father had season tickets, so I saw Larry and Bobby play live at the Forum countless times. I passionately hated the Bruins, and I still do. Wayne was the only player I ever saw live that thrilled me more than Bobby. Sorry pal, Bobby was the greatest defenceman of all time. Not even close! Go Habs Go!
A good case can be made that Robinson and sometimes Denis Potvin were the greatest all round players of their generation because of the multiple ways they could control the tempo of a game and the number of minutes they played. But when the Canadian team lost 6-0 to the Soviets in the Challenge Cup and 8-1 two years later in the Canada Cup, these two were on the ice for many of the Soviet goals.
When you consider that "gap" in +/- don't forget that Robinson's career was almost twice as long as Orr's, plus the fact that he had The Octopus in goal behind him early, and Roy later in his career.. And Orr was the one who revolutionized the position, making it possible for coaches to allow a good skating D-man like Larry to rush the puck. I rank Larry as #2 of all time, ahead of Lidstrom and Bourque
Larry "Big Bird" was one of the greatest and he played on a GREAT team.. I am 60 years old and my Dad and brothers watched these guys since the early 70's and we loved to HATE these guys but we had the utmost respect for them. With Danny Gallivan calling the play by play it was a real thrill to watch it all. Two of the greatest memories was Grapes standing on the boards and the Big Bird straightening out Dave Scwultz(Legend) at the Forum. Man oh man the memories of Lafleur and company. Thanks for the memories Larry it was a real joy watching one of the greatest D men of all time. You were a force and a great defenceman.. I carry my Dad and bros memories with these great years.
♥️
Bobby was not to be discredited for the lack of medical advancement. if he'd have played a little later he could have been repaired quicker+more effectively! NO ONE COULD DO THE THINGS THAT HE COULD DO.as far as Cups, woulda won more but for W.H.A. Signing lotta B's
Larry Robinson - solid team defensemen supporting a cast of the best Montreal Canadiens ever. I grew up in a neighbourhood where it was not uncommon to see Guy Lafleur, Yvan Cournoyer, or Jacques Lemaire walking out of the local corner store or at the local city rink (Beaconsfield). A buddy from high school recalled watching Larry and Bob Gainey in Gainey’s back yard moving a BBQ. I remember selling Craven A reds to Guy. Rest his soul. Those were the days.
Amazing!
If Larry had a mean streak he’d have been more important than any other defenseman except Orr
Bobby Orr was the best player ever! But I love this video because Larry was amazing and yes absolutely overlooked as a player and defensemen.. He was so special so great video for a great man
Also remember that Orr's plus/minus was over 10 seasons and Larry's was over 20. No disrespect to Larry - he deserves every accolade he gets!!!
Larry Robinson rarely gets mentioned . He was incredible.
Sure was!
Robinson may have had a longer career, but at his peak, no-one could touch Orr.
There have been many great defensemen since I started following hockey in 1961 and I can say that Larry is easily among the top 20 and the only one who stands out as number 1 is Orr. The rest you could argue about forever. I am sure about one thing and that is Larry is the best Habs defenseman I have ever known.
The plus minus record of a player will be affected by the quality of the team around him. A team with high scorers and a great goaltender will certainly affect that number. Robin was a great player/defenseman. He also had a great goaltender in Ken Dryden and teams that were great skaters. Orr joined the Bruins when they were in the cellar and brought them into contention very quickly. I understand this video is just a teaser to get clicks and create a discussion or controversy. Good Job!
Larry Robinson is the greatest of all time. Even today, he is still greatest player of all time. HAND DOWN!!!!!!! I miss the seventy’s hockey were fantastic compared today hockey.
Robinson has always been undervalued by the pundits. From the moment he joined the league, he was dominant. In that era, size was viewed as a liability. He used it as an advantage. I am so glad he is finally being recognized as one of the greatest.
Man larry robinson was highly valued from day one.period.robinson left point.orr right.stastny at center.hull at left.bossy right.greatest lineup ever
@@charlesjohnson166who’s your goalie?
@ferociousfil5747 hasek
Agreed; Robinson has had a championesque coaching career as well. He is an all time winner.
The 1980-81 Edmonton Oilers put those Montreal Canadiens and Larry Robinson in their place.
Say what you want about their goaltending after Ken Dryden retired but fact remains Richard Sevigny was still an outstanding goaltender. How many losses did the Canadiens have at the Forum that year ? The Oilers won both games at the Forum in the 1981 playoffs and the series in three straight games in a best of five. I met Yvon Lambert in 2015 and he was on that team and he's still disappointed that my Oilers beat them in 1981.
@Mike-l7y5y
I wonder if the Habs were infected with the "it's just a WHA team" mental illness that it seemed many of the well-established franchises had at the time....
@@С.А.Л It could be. It's difficult to say. The NHL playoff schedule was disgusting at that time. Number 1 vs 16, 2 vs. 15 , etc. Try that today, I doubt anyone would want that.
Nope, not a chance. Bobby Orr was by far the best. Larry Robinson was an excellent defenseman in his own right but Orr could do everything Robinson could do and more. Orr’s only downfall was the length of his career.
Favorite Larry Robinson moment was him running Gary Dornhoffer thru the board❤s at the Forum....WOW.
No one is EVER going to even reach HALF of Robinsons plus/minus total again. His record is completely untouchable
It really is a wild stat, crazy!
He played in an era where the Canadiens played all weak teams about 4 or 5 times a year. That hurts any team like Golden Seals, Rockies and Canucks. That's one thing. Secondly, Dryden was way better than everyone else except maybe for Tony Esposito or Bernie Parent. Thirdly, it doesn't hurt to have Savard or Lapointe back there in case you mess up. Fourthly, after the Canadiens made a trade to get Doug Jarvis, their last weakness in faceoffs was no more as Jarvis was likely the second best faceoff player in NHL history after either Stan Mikita or Bobby Clarke. When you're getting puck possession 60 -65% of the time and you're facing quite a lot of crappy teams more than 3 times every year you're in a good position to get huge plus/minus numbers. Some have suggested that the 1970's and 1980's without any really big salaries except for maybe Marcel Dionne and Dave Taylor of the Los Angeles Kings made the best players play WAY better than today. Possible. But fact remains, the Canadiens for years were a DEFENSIVE powerhouse and their go to game was defense so hearing it day in and day out made Robinson's environment that much better for him to achieve those numbers.
@@Mike-l7y5y Well spoken, sir
@@neutralevil1917 Thanks. I looked at the stats from today, no team seems to come close to the 1974-75 Capitals, 1980-81 Jets or 1992-93 Sharks. A team would have to go 30 or 40 games without a win these days to join those sad sack clubs. But with the overtime and shootout structure nowadays it's very difficult to do so.
@@Mike-l7y5y As far as I remember 1974-75 Capitals had 1 (one) road win. Imagine traveling all season long only to get your ass kicked
Very true assessment. Same situation with Mike Bossy. He rarely got enough consideration as one of the great goal scorers. Seemed to be overlooked in the conversations. To be clear, I am not an Islander or Bossy fan necessarily, but when he was playing against your team, and he was on the right center dot, and the puck went to him, you knew it was in. I am a Habs fan, so on a few occassions when that was the situation, my comment was "Oh Sh&t". Similar to Ovechkin, but other side. Not many other players you can say that about...Lemieux on a break away was another.
Lol
I'm a Habs fan. I watched Larry Robinson play. He was really good. Big, tough, no nonsense, skated surprisingly well for his size, racked up goals and assists won the power play and at even strength.
For modern comparators , he was analogous to big D-men like Pronger, Chara, Weber, Pietrangelo and Weber.
In short, Robinson did it all, but he was no Bobby Orr, nor was he even a Ray Bourque who I would rank as the number2 defenseman of all time--and this is coming from a die-hard Habs fan.
Robinson played on great teams and also in particular, on great defensive teams. No doubt he was a big part of them, however, he was also flanked by fellow big D-men like Lapointe, Savard, Langway and Bouchard.
Bobby Orr'r stats speak for themselves so I don't take that argument seriously.
However, a player like Bourque is a fairer comparison, however Robinson still falls short.
Unlike Robinson, Ray Bourque was typically the best player on his team team. He played an absolute brilliant echnical and physical defensive game and was always one of, if not the the top point scorer on his team.
Although I wouldn't rank Niklas Lidstrom no. 3 ( i.e., after Orr and Bourque), I think he represents a more realistic comparator.
Bobby's skating skills were unmatched in those days. He could go from zero to fast in an a couple strides. Very explosive. Robinson used his size to great effect. Both of them were in a class of their own. Comparing them is like trying to determine if Ali was better than Tyson. The question has no answer.
Bobby Orr 8 × Norris Trophy, Harvey and Lidstrom 7 × Norris Trophy, Bourque 5 × Norris Trophy ... Larry Robinson 2 × Norris Trophy.
For sure Robinson is one of the greatest defensmen in NHL history and he was a key player in Habs team that won several Stanley Cups in the 70s.
@douglastucker3677 yes, Coffey, Potvin, Chelios, Langway, ... Makar etc, huge players all of them
Orr was the best,second to none,Robinson,maybe top 10.
Maybe? Definitely top 10
Orr and Robinson got my vote. Love them both. .Theres a lot more players that are close though.
There's one simple reason he is overlooked - he played on the Habs, a team that was stacked to the brim, had three star defensemen, plus the best goalie of the day.
You are obviously tooo young to remember that Bobby Ore was definitely the best defenseman and possibly the best player. Robinson was great along with many others. As a former Leaf fan, remember Tim Horton and others.
We are young yes haha would have loved to witness all of them!
Robinson was and still is vastly underrated. He had all the weapons. Don't remember Bobby Orr as tough as Robinson.
Orr didn't have to be tough, he had Cashman and Sanderson to take care of the trash.
Orr Had close to 1,000 PIMs and fought.
I am a BIG HABS fan and loved Robinson but let's face Bobby Orr was the greatest defenceman to ever play the game. Not as tough???? Orr took 50 fighting majors as a Bruin.
@@24tippper Correct. And my all-time best defense would include Robinson.
@@24tippper That many ? 50 fights, wow. Who did he fight the most ? The only fisticuff I remember was the one in the 1971 playoffs when he had to be restrained by half the Bruins team against the Canadiens. He wanted to pummel the referee for calling a sketchy penalty.
Robinson did NOT change both the way defensemen played, and, more importantly, how coaching philosophy in regard to defensemen was revolutionized.
Bobby Orr did that.
He could do it all, that's for sure. I wouldn't argue that he's the GOAT.
1) Orr
2) Bourque
3) Potvin
4) Harvey
5) Shore
6) Robinson
7) Lidstrom
8) Chelios
9) Coffey
10) Makar
Honorable mention: Leetch, MacInnis, Stevens
Brother, i respect your rankings you can't put Coffey below top 4.
I just want to add that Robinson had all the other attributes one admires in a real champion ... humility,
physically tough, unselfish, superb playmaker and incredible durability which enabled him to sustain a long playing career.
I'm Orr then Potvin. Maybe Park and Robinson then. Savard is a top shelf guy who without the two leg breaks would have had an even more amazing career.
And from different era's Eddie Shore and Doug Harvey.
Bourque is in the discussion for greatest defenseman of all time. Maybe half the defender Potvin was. Maybe. He had perhaps the greatest career of any defenseman but nowhere near the greatest defenseman of all time.
Lidstrom is amazing.
Larry Robinson looked super awkward his first couple years. His brother Moe never got past that awkward stage. Moe had 40 points in 64 games with the Voyageurs in the AHL but it never translated to the NHL. He was another 6'3" kid but it seemed like he had a lighter frame than Larry.
I don't think Larry Robinson is being overlooked. Is He?
Honestly Bourque was great too, but maybe 10th 11th best all time. 22 Years so great longevity and great offensive numbers.
Bourque was a 13 times 1st Team All-Star and 6 times 2nd Team All-Star total of 19 times 1st or second. Noboby beats that at any position. He his a top 5 for sure.
It was before I started watching (around 1986), but it BOGGLES MY MIND that the Canadians ALSO had a young Rod Langway, and they traded him to washington. IMAGINE BOTH ON THE SAME TEAM FOR THE ENTIRE 80's.
You left out his pasting of Dave Schultz, no easy feat. And the whole world rejoiced
Bobby ORR
In the off chance Larry reads these comments, hello from your cousin in Ottawa, Joyce’s boy :)
Awesome!
Nope. Outstanding D-man, no question, but having seen 6 decades of hockey, it's still Orr, all day long. He could skate rings around Larry, as much as I liked Big Bird. Larry had HOF D-men LaPointe & Savard on that team. Orr did not have the same supporting cast, but was in a class by himself. If I could have any player from the 'modern era' (60's forward) to start a team it would still be Orr over everybody including Gretzky. To be clear, I mean the Orr prior to his knee injury that having been mishandled, eventually led to the premature end of his career.
There are two kinds of greatness: greatness at their peak, and the greatness sustained over an entire career. For peak greatness, it's hard to beat Bobby Orr.
If you want to look at a Defenseman that is completely overlooked then I nominate one Brad Park. Park played in EVERY All-Star Game in the 70's (except 79) and was runner up for the Norris 5 times in that span. When he retired he was the leading scorer amongst Defenseman in the history of the New York Rangers and second to Bobby Orr all-time for the Bruins.
It stops and ends with Larry. Best ever.
mentioning any player other then Bobby Orr as the greatest defencemen if not the greatest player of all time really shows your lack of hockey knowledge
Thats a bit harsh, just starting a discussion…
@ there was a point where Robinson’s plus/minus numbers were larger then Orr’s. But nothing was mentioned that Orr retired in 1976 and Robinson played into the 1980’s. And of course how do you forget all the Norris trophies and only one of two defence men to win the Hart
Robinson, Savard and Lapointe, the Big 3 winning 6 Cups in the 70’s.
No disrespect to Larry Robinson -- he absolutely was a great defenseman -- but as good as he was, sorry, he was NOT the "GOAT."
The only GOAT when it comess to NHL defensemen is the incomparable Bobby Orr. He utterly REVOLUTIONIZED the position, and all the greats who came after him merely stand on his shoulders. If modern orthopedic and surgical medicine, modern training, and modern injury recovery methods had been in existance when he played (not to mention today's tighter rules enforcement on injurious and dangerous play and cheap shots ... and today's better, lighter, and more protective equipment), there is NO TELLING how much even greater his already eye-watering stats would be from a far lengthier and impactful career.
The fact that Bobby Orr is STILL in the conversation as the GOAT -- the platinum standard -- some 50 years after crippling knee injuries and surgeries robbed him of his career tells you all you need to know about his UNMATCHED GREATNESS. And I can say this with all honesty, impartiality, and respect because I'm NOT a "Bruins homer." "My team is actually one of the Bruins' rivals !!!
Nobody's alongside Bobby Orr, not even close. I'll bet that you never saw him play. Robinson is one of the greats that's for sure but Orr is on his own level.
By the way, Robinson has played 1384 games, most of his games with a great team including the best team ever in the 2nd half of the 70's. Orr played 657 games... Not even half of Robinson's games! The +- comparison shows how dominant Orr was.
Anyway, the +- is more of a team quality comparison than anything. Not very relevant. If Robinson played for Washington and Colorado back then he wouldn't be a +722!
Robinson was also a factor in the success they had and had an impact when he was with the Kings. Even that late into his career he was still playing well.
Totally!
The argument is deeply flawed... Bobby Orr's career pretty much ended at the age of 27 after 9 healthy seasons (played 26 games TOTAL after the spring of 1975... on 1 leg!) * though the conclusion might be accurate because of his physical presence in the defensive zone. Orr was feared because of his speed (when healthy) and his vision on the ice, Robinson was feared because of his physical presence!
* Comparing the +/- career total of each is downright indecent, even dishonest, as Robinson played 12 more COMPLETE seasons (866 more games) than Orr. To set the record straight, Orr's +/- career average per game was 0.886 while Robinson's was 0.522... on a much more talented CH team to boot!
Not an argument, simply a topic of discussion :)
@@beyond_thebench The title for the video is a clear statement "Meet the greatest", not a question & the data is flawed. So if the process is deeply distorted, the argument has no more value than the paper it's written on... whatever the identity of the player chosen!
Bobby Orr was the greatest of all time, and its not even close!
In His era, but Lidström was objectivly better at everything. Athleticlly Orr is a 3rd liner in the modern era.
Larry Robinson is definitely underrated and fly under the radar for those that never saw him in his prime….that said the question of greatness defenseman of all time begins and ends with #4. Who can be legitimately argued as the greatest player in NHL history