Fun Fact: 2112 started as a X-Men 2099 that Byrne was working on with Stan Lee. The project fell apart and Byrne took his pages and re-worked the story. He later tied 2112 into Next Men
Byrne was even "faster" on this series, on top of already being a really fast artist. Yes, I enjoyed this series as well. It was different than the Image stuff coming out at the same time, and that's why I liked it. I felt his artwork was pretty good throughout this series.
I purchased ALL of my comics from Westfield Comics in the 80s early 90s.. Lived in small town Texas.. loved seeing that UPS truck coming down the driveway 🥹 as a kid..
2112 is connected and I think it's the idea that Next Men came out of, retroactively. Byrne was originally going to do Marvel 2099 with Stan Lee but I guess they had some disagreement about the direction so he left the project and made 2112 instead. If you squint closely you can see some vestige of Marvel
All of the #0 material is in the first edition trade paperback. Guessing that’s where Jim remembers it from. It was also my favorite back in the day, so underrated. I’ve always liked Byrne’s storytelling style during this period, from his Hulk issues and including his Namor run up to Wonder Woman.
I had quit collecting comics by 1989. I happened to see this in 1992 and bought it because Byrne. My French roommate taught me that the French have a love for comics “bande dessinee “. He enjoyed this series and was disappointed to learn he had to wait monthly for each issue.
Byrne originally pitch Next Men to DC in 1986 and some of the characters show up on the History of the DC Universe portfolio. Dark Horse Present 54-57 was later collected as the issue 0 of this series. Becouse of the 90's crash Byrne went back to work for the Big Two and never completed the las 9 issues of his original 39 issue run until 2011 when he did a 9 issue series and a 4 issue mini called "Aftermath".
I know you're both fans of the Marvel Essentials. If you're not aware, IDW also released the original Next Men saga in two Black & White newsprint volumes as "The Compleat Next Men" about 15 years ago.
He released an issue 0, which was popular in the era this title was released. It was a great first issue, btw. 2112 was the start, technically, so issue 1 was actually the third complete comic in the series.
I literally just found Omac by John Byrne a week ago at Half Price Books, the full set. Had no idea it existed prior to that. I greatly enjoyed it, would definitely be happy to see you guys look at that one.
John Byrne. This guy is one of those creators for me (along with guys like Gaiman, Alan Moore, Junji Ito, Kirby, P. Craig Russell, and in film Scorsese or Tarantino) who, even if I don't particularly love the story for its entertainment value, I never walk away feeling cheated because I always am able to at least appreciate the work, care and craftsmanship they put into it.
Also there was a comic called Next Man. Adding John Byrne's name over the title would differentiate this book from that book and the x books. 2112 mentions the next men directly.
I did a podcast on 2112 and how it was the “Starting point” for JBNM. This was also a point in time that fans were expected to read the short stories in Dark Horse Presents before reading the regular series. Frank Miller’s Sin City started in DHP before getting its own series. Lastly, the main character (a female reporter) from Whipping Boy makes her appearance in JBNM about a year into the series so it definitely a shared universe between the comic and book.
I forgot that the actual intro was in issue 0 or 1/2 or something weird like that. I was 11 or 12 when this came out, and I always wanted to like this more than I did. I definitely had the impression that it was an attempt at doing something a little more "Mature" or maybe like "elevated" than Marvel/DC fare. The first couple of issues definitely made an impression on me, though.
What’s up with those black backgrounds behind the panels? It just seems kind of random but it’s on every page. That Morrison batman series is one of my favorites too.
That was something he started in 2112 and carried through the JBNM stuff. There are general art aesthetic reasons and rules for it, but I don't want to be a pretentious snob and pretend I know exactly what Byrne was thinking at the time.
I remember giving this a try but it didn’t grab me. Not sure because it was because I wanted a more of his take on superhero and didn’t get it or if the story was just not hitting home. I did like his art style but it just didn’t click. I recently found a used trade for $5.00 I’ve yet to read it through but I will now see how I feel about.
Yes, WHIPPING BOY is in the same universe as JBNM - the reporters who were the key characters of WHIPPING BOY appear in the book in JBNM #16 for a cameo mostly to market the novel. The events of WHIPPING BOY take place 5 years before their appearance in JBNM.
I've never heard Byrne say anything about the Alpha Flight characters not being valid because they weren't created by Kirby, Ditko, or Lee. He DID think that they weren't strong enough characters to carry their own book, but that was because they'd been created as supporting guest stars rather than stars in their own right. But Marvel was going to do the series with or without him, so he did it to keep them from making it even worse. He tried to flesh the characters out and give them more depth, with what I think even he believes were mixed results. But his run did what it was meant to do: entertain me as a teenager. So I can't knock it too much.
A couple of things were happening at this time culminating in John Byrne's Next Men. First, Byrne and some of his generation of artists who were at that level in terms of popularity such as Frank Miller and Mike Mignola (Maybe not YET for Mignola) migrated to Dark Horse under the Legends label which was supposed to be the more mature, sophisticated counterpoint to Image Comics. Byrne was a very vocal critic of Image at the time as many of his A Flame About This High articles will show. Secondly there was this well-intentioned but ultimately misguided attempt to bring more REALISM into comics... particularly the super hero genre. We were in the wake of Watchmen, Miracle Man, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and yes even Marvel's New Universe. Unfortunately in leaning so heavy on the realism, much of the fun was squeezed out of the results. I think this is what happened here. The Next Men is a meandering, slow-plotted story with very little pay-off. As a big Byrne fan, I hung in there waiting for this to come together but it never did. I think there are about thirty issues where the entire team is never together. Bethany and the Faux Scott Summers (And was this guy ever anything more than that?) get into a bar fight. The little kid with the fat legs meets the Faux Stan Lee and meets his sister...? Jack joins a punk biker gang. Jasmine gets pregnant. The most interesting element in this story is Sathanas who as the most traditional, if largely stereotypical villain, stands out in this slow-moving mess like a sore thumb. Now get me started on X-Men: The Hidden Years, one of the greatest disappointments in my comic book reading life...!
I loved Byrnes Next Men. In the early 90s, Dark Horse was the home of good quality innovative independent comics. Image was art focused, with awful writing (Savage Dragon was an exception). Valiant had boring house art style, but, good stories. Dark Horse, had Next Men, Hellboy, Grendel, Sin City, and others.
Next Men, The Books of Magic, Young Justice, Generation X, Teen Tony, and The Sandman by Neil Gaiman. Wanted to not follow the trends of 90's like Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarlane. They did not to spite at it. Rather show the flaws of the era. And take it in a different direction.
IDW put out a few large "Essential" style trade in B&W and it starts with all that pre-Issue 1 material before jumping in. I would say that was a better reading experience than say this issue alone but honestly this isn't Byrne's best. Ironically, Alpha Flight #1 and his first issue of Man of Steel is probably his best.
I was a huge fan of John Byrne's work from 1976 to 1988 with his very best work from 1977 to 1981. I think his artwork after 1988 looked more rushed, more loose, and uninspired.
That's exactly how I feel about Byrne's work. Although I did keep buying his work, and enjoyed it, about half way through his Namor run I just lost most of my enthusiasm.
......"Byrne victim"???......The man's career in '83 convinced me to pursue Comic Book Illustration as a lifestyle......far from victim-hood Gentlemen. His name rings in my pencils and inks like: Starlin, Perez, JRjr, Kirby, Toth, Simonson, Cockrum, N Adams, ART Adams,....too many to just rattle off. A LIFESTYLE. PEACE Family of the Pen. God bless us each and every.
Issue zero was a better issue one than this. This is like issue two. Byrne said he was going for science fiction with a superhero flavor in this series.
Fun Fact: 2112 started as a X-Men 2099 that Byrne was working on with Stan Lee. The project fell apart and Byrne took his pages and re-worked the story. He later tied 2112 into Next Men
I always thought of John Byrne's 2112 graphic novel as the "true" Next Men #1.
or -1 as it were
Byrne was even "faster" on this series, on top of already being a really fast artist. Yes, I enjoyed this series as well. It was different than the Image stuff coming out at the same time, and that's why I liked it. I felt his artwork was pretty good throughout this series.
I purchased ALL of my comics from Westfield Comics in the 80s early 90s..
Lived in small town Texas.. loved seeing that UPS truck coming down the driveway 🥹 as a kid..
This was my favorite ongoing title of the early 90s. So good.
2112 is connected and I think it's the idea that Next Men came out of, retroactively. Byrne was originally going to do Marvel 2099 with Stan Lee but I guess they had some disagreement about the direction so he left the project and made 2112 instead. If you squint closely you can see some vestige of Marvel
All of the #0 material is in the first edition trade paperback. Guessing that’s where Jim remembers it from. It was also my favorite back in the day, so underrated. I’ve always liked Byrne’s storytelling style during this period, from his Hulk issues and including his Namor run up to Wonder Woman.
I had quit collecting comics by 1989. I happened to see this in 1992 and bought it because Byrne. My French roommate taught me that the French have a love for comics “bande dessinee “. He enjoyed this series and was disappointed to learn he had to wait monthly for each issue.
Byrne originally pitch Next Men to DC in 1986 and some of the characters show up on the History of the DC Universe portfolio.
Dark Horse Present 54-57 was later collected as the issue 0 of this series. Becouse of the 90's crash Byrne went back to work for the Big Two and never completed the las 9 issues of his original 39 issue run until 2011 when he did a 9 issue series and a 4 issue mini called "Aftermath".
I know you're both fans of the Marvel Essentials. If you're not aware, IDW also released the original Next Men saga in two Black & White newsprint volumes as "The Compleat Next Men" about 15 years ago.
This is an excellent series.
He released an issue 0, which was popular in the era this title was released. It was a great first issue, btw. 2112 was the start, technically, so issue 1 was actually the third complete comic in the series.
I read this after reading the lackluster X-MEN Hidden Years. The overall story of Next Men was fun. XMHY needed this.
I literally just found Omac by John Byrne a week ago at Half Price Books, the full set. Had no idea it existed prior to that. I greatly enjoyed it, would definitely be happy to see you guys look at that one.
John Byrne. This guy is one of those creators for me (along with guys like Gaiman, Alan Moore, Junji Ito, Kirby, P. Craig Russell, and in film Scorsese or Tarantino) who, even if I don't particularly love the story for its entertainment value, I never walk away feeling cheated because I always am able to at least appreciate the work, care and craftsmanship they put into it.
Next men is one of my all time favourite indie books. The writing on this fast paced & accessible.
Also there was a comic called Next Man. Adding John Byrne's name over the title would differentiate this book from that book and the x books. 2112 mentions the next men directly.
I did a podcast on 2112 and how it was the “Starting point” for JBNM. This was also a point in time that fans were expected to read the short stories in Dark Horse Presents before reading the regular series. Frank Miller’s Sin City started in DHP before getting its own series. Lastly, the main character (a female reporter) from Whipping Boy makes her appearance in JBNM about a year into the series so it definitely a shared universe between the comic and book.
This issue is great and so was the series. At least one of you sees it. The other one is high on his own supply.
You were saying it's bad but it looks kinda good to me. Kinda reminded me of Valiant.
The villain in 2112 ended up in Next Men.
I forgot that the actual intro was in issue 0 or 1/2 or something weird like that. I was 11 or 12 when this came out, and I always wanted to like this more than I did. I definitely had the impression that it was an attempt at doing something a little more "Mature" or maybe like "elevated" than Marvel/DC fare. The first couple of issues definitely made an impression on me, though.
What’s up with those black backgrounds behind the panels? It just seems kind of random but it’s on every page. That Morrison batman series is one of my favorites too.
That was something he started in 2112 and carried through the JBNM stuff. There are general art aesthetic reasons and rules for it, but I don't want to be a pretentious snob and pretend I know exactly what Byrne was thinking at the time.
I remember giving this a try but it didn’t grab me. Not sure because it was because I wanted a more of his take on superhero and didn’t get it or if the story was just not hitting home. I did like his art style but it just didn’t click. I recently found a used trade for $5.00 I’ve yet to read it through but I will now see how I feel about.
Yes, WHIPPING BOY is in the same universe as JBNM - the reporters who were the key characters of WHIPPING BOY appear in the book in JBNM #16 for a cameo mostly to market the novel. The events of WHIPPING BOY take place 5 years before their appearance in JBNM.
I've never heard Byrne say anything about the Alpha Flight characters not being valid because they weren't created by Kirby, Ditko, or Lee. He DID think that they weren't strong enough characters to carry their own book, but that was because they'd been created as supporting guest stars rather than stars in their own right. But Marvel was going to do the series with or without him, so he did it to keep them from making it even worse. He tried to flesh the characters out and give them more depth, with what I think even he believes were mixed results. But his run did what it was meant to do: entertain me as a teenager. So I can't knock it too much.
A couple of things were happening at this time culminating in John Byrne's Next Men. First, Byrne and some of his generation of artists who were at that level in terms of popularity such as Frank Miller and Mike Mignola (Maybe not YET for Mignola) migrated to Dark Horse under the Legends label which was supposed to be the more mature, sophisticated counterpoint to Image Comics. Byrne was a very vocal critic of Image at the time as many of his A Flame About This High articles will show. Secondly there was this well-intentioned but ultimately misguided attempt to bring more REALISM into comics... particularly the super hero genre. We were in the wake of Watchmen, Miracle Man, Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and yes even Marvel's New Universe. Unfortunately in leaning so heavy on the realism, much of the fun was squeezed out of the results. I think this is what happened here. The Next Men is a meandering, slow-plotted story with very little pay-off. As a big Byrne fan, I hung in there waiting for this to come together but it never did. I think there are about thirty issues where the entire team is never together. Bethany and the Faux Scott Summers (And was this guy ever anything more than that?) get into a bar fight. The little kid with the fat legs meets the Faux Stan Lee and meets his sister...? Jack joins a punk biker gang. Jasmine gets pregnant. The most interesting element in this story is Sathanas who as the most traditional, if largely stereotypical villain, stands out in this slow-moving mess like a sore thumb. Now get me started on X-Men: The Hidden Years, one of the greatest disappointments in my comic book reading life...!
Did the same thing with the Border Worlds backup features in Megaton Man -- BW #1 was another first issue you'll hate, Jim! :)
I loved Byrnes Next Men.
In the early 90s, Dark Horse was the home of good quality innovative independent comics. Image was art focused, with awful writing (Savage Dragon was an exception). Valiant had boring house art style, but, good stories.
Dark Horse, had Next Men, Hellboy, Grendel, Sin City, and others.
John Byrne's novel Whipping Boy is part of the same world.
If really curious, Next Men populates many a dollar to quarter bins in comic book stores around the country. Do not pay more than $3 for Next Men #1.
John Byrne's Next Men. Had some nods to his Superman run.
Next Men, The Books of Magic, Young Justice, Generation X, Teen Tony, and The Sandman by Neil Gaiman. Wanted to not follow the trends of 90's like Rob Liefeld and Todd McFarlane. They did not to spite at it. Rather show the flaws of the era. And take it in a different direction.
Creators in the video game industry matter too.
Ed I really hope you talk more in depth about Morrison's Bat Epic at some point
Have you guys done a video on the Panda brothers?
You mean the Pander brothers who worked on the Christine Sphar era of GRENDEL?
IDW put out a few large "Essential" style trade in B&W and it starts with all that pre-Issue 1 material before jumping in. I would say that was a better reading experience than say this issue alone but honestly this isn't Byrne's best. Ironically, Alpha Flight #1 and his first issue of Man of Steel is probably his best.
I was a huge fan of John Byrne's work from 1976 to 1988 with his very best work from 1977 to 1981. I think his artwork after 1988 looked more rushed, more loose, and uninspired.
That's exactly how I feel about Byrne's work. Although I did keep buying his work, and enjoyed it, about half way through his Namor run I just lost most of my enthusiasm.
How would you know how long it took?
"Byrne victim" is now what I will call his fans
......"Byrne victim"???......The man's career in '83 convinced me to pursue Comic Book Illustration as a lifestyle......far from victim-hood Gentlemen. His name rings in my pencils and inks like: Starlin, Perez, JRjr, Kirby, Toth, Simonson, Cockrum, N Adams, ART Adams,....too many to just rattle off. A LIFESTYLE. PEACE Family of the Pen. God bless us each and every.
it a jokey name adopted by fans of his. not an insult.
John Byrne had an AOL message board back in the day called the “Byrne Ward” and his fans referred to themselves “Byrne Victims”.
I always thought next men was Byrnes attempt at a Valiant book.
Issue zero was a better issue one than this. This is like issue two. Byrne said he was going for science fiction with a superhero flavor in this series.
This book was too Valiantesque for me.
You lasted longer than I did. I think I dropped Next Men after issue four.
LOL just when the series start to get better.
He’s a great artist not such a great writer.
You didn't read his She-Hulk i see.
I always thought his work on Iron Fist and Champions was some of Byrne's best.