Xenosaga Episode II: Anatomy of a Disaster
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- How do you follow up on one of the most ambitious RPGs in the history of the genre? Unfortunately, in this case, you fall flat on your face. Xenosaga Episode II is kind of a mess, so much so that I needed 75 minutes to talk about why.
I begin by spending over 20 minutes discussing the game's development history, and in the process, I hope to once and for all dispel the stubbornly persistent myth that Episode I was a financial failure that caused Namco to meddle in the development of the series. Because that's not at all what happened - the actual story is much sadder.
The rest of the video sees me walking through the story and gameplay from the earliest cutscenes to nearly the very end. Spoilers are aplenty, so if you haven't finished the game yet, do that, and come back when you do.
Works Cited:
Xenogears and Xenosaga Study Guide, xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.bl...
Kotaku, "The History of Monolithsoft," kotaku.com/from-xenogears-to-...
RPG Fan, "Xenosaga Tops Japanese Sales Charts," web.archive.org/web/201509051...
Geimin.net, "Video Games Sales (Top 300 for 2002)," web.archive.org/web/201610300...
RPGamer, "Namco Announces Profits, Release Dates," web.archive.org/web/201703270...
Xenosaga Official Design Materials, web.archive.org/web/2012090409...
Dengeki, "December 2001 Interview With Tetsuya Takahashi," xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.b...
Famitsu, "Episode II Interview," xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.bl...
Kotaku, "The Real Story Behind Xenogears’ ‘Unfinished’ Second Disc," kotaku.com/the-real-story-beh...
Soraya Saga FAQ, xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.bl...
Xenosaga Episode II - Weekly Vol.III, Act I, xenogearsxenosagastudyguide.bl...
Xenosaga Episode II Soundtrack (Featuring Shinji Hosoe Music), • Playlist
Original Sound Version, “Anime Boston 2009: Interview With Kalafina and Yuki Kajiura,” www.originalsoundversion.com/...
Xeno Series Wiki, "Music of Xenosaga Episode II," www.xenoserieswiki.org/wiki/M...
Table of Contents:
0:00 - Spoiler Warning
1:12 - Introduction
4:39 - The Xenosaga Episode II Myth
6:56 - Xenosaga Episode I Was A Success, Actually
10:12 - The Overambition of Xenosaga Episode I
14:10 - The Truth About Xenogears Disc 2
15:56 - Xenosaga Cut to Three Episodes
17:49 - Changing The Development Team, Part 1
19:48 - Changing The Development Team, Part 2 (The Case of Kaori Tanaka)
23:18 - The New Development Team
25:39 - The Promising Beginning, Part 1
26:50 - E.S. Battles
27:50 - The Promising Beginning, Part 2
28:27 - The First Red Flags
29:56 - Tonal Awkwardness on Second Miltia
30:51 - Composer #1 (Yuki Kajiura)
31:40 - Composer #2 (Shinji Hosoe)
34:16 - Mid-Video Addition Concerning The Soundtrack
35:57 - The Worst Car Chase Ever
37:03 - New Character Designs
38:15 - Hollow Revelations Concerning The Zohar Project
39:38 - Shion and Jin’s Totally Wacky Relationship
40:36 - Inside The Encephalon Again
42:15 - Character Battles, Part 1
46:24 - No Money, No Shops, (Almost) No Customization
48:22 - Character Battles, Part 2
50:51 - Xenosaga Episode II’s Length
51:46 - Side Quests
53:34 - The Xeno Series Disc 2 Curse
55:41 - The Opening of Disc 2
57:48 - The Dammerung
1:00:58 - The Ormus Stronghold
1:03:20 - The Underwhelming Truth Behind The Miltian Conflict
1:05:58 - Shion, Febronia, Cecily and Cathe
1:07:21 - The English Dub
1:13:41 - A Hopeful Conclusion
1:15:29 - Ending Credits - เกม
Despite all of Episode 2's problems, the side-story with Jr., Albedo, Sakura, and MOMO is really good.
Exactly.
Trouble is that side story ended up really being the primary emotional drive of II. It isn't that it was a bad story, it's quite well written so far as getting the audience invested. What I mean is it was really not the best expository choice. Didn't leave much in III for Rubedo, Albedo, Nigredo, and MOMO to do that get's the player as invested in their part of the story in III.
@@RocketPropelledGuyAgreed.
Takahashi really should've written this story as a series of novels first that way he could devote more time to the world and story he and his wife envisioned. Ah, what could've been.
TJ, these videos are incredible! I'd like to shout out your retrospective series as we move forward with our Xenosaga series. Is there some way I can contact you about being a guest on our podcast?
Oh wow, thank you so much for that! You guys have been a huge inspiration - I'm pretty sure I gave you like three shoutouts in my video on Episode 3. I think my email address is listed in the about me section of my channel, that's the best way to get in contact.
Well ain’t this sweet
And the rest....is history 😉
So I do find it interesting that it would have taken until 2030 to see the complete story Takahashi had been able to do everything he wanted to. In particular because that's exactly how Trails has been going, with the series starting in 2004 and expecting to be wrapped up in 2031. It just makes me really wish that Namco had the foresight Falcom had to commit to a multi-decade ambitious project.
I have to say, this is one of the more intelligent critiques of Xenosaga 2 I’ve seen. I understand a lot of gripes people have with the game. I myself am not completely head over heels in love with it.
Personally, I liked Disc 2 better than Disc 1. I actually liked it better bc it finally introduced the E.S.s in full, we finally get to see Old Miltia as it is in the present (in game ofc lol), and it returned Shion to her place as the protagonist at least until the final boss. Not that I disliked Jr. as a protagonist lmao. I also enjoyed the post-game content.
I’ll boil it down to I played the games years after their first release. I was in early elementary school when they first came out. Episode 1 managed to blow me away, and was the first PS2 game I ever beat. I liked Episode 2 less at first, but somehow it grew on me as I played it more. However, you make great points about problems with world building (U.M.N., Dämmerung), and how the pace of disc 2 is too fast.
The G.S. campaigns are annoying, but I still try to complete them all for the rewards and completion.
Believe it or not, my favorite thing about the game is the battle system. I find boss fights to be a blast, and building my characters in ways to adapt to each situation to be fun. It’s not on the level of fun I had with some Atlus titles, but actually comes pretty close. Personally, I found the battle system to be way faster than in episode 1. I would use analyze on an enemy to learn its break zones, attribute, and elemental weaknesses, then change out my party accordingly. Using the sword ethers even during normal battles helps too. I found that with the right party made it so that I rarely needed to stock during normal battles. The game sometimes even gives you an extra stock to knock the enemy down or into the air. But… that’s just me. I really enjoyed it.
Overall I think my biggest gripes with the game are the tonally inconsistent soundtrack (although I actually love the dungeon themes), the load times, the in-game engine cutscenes, and the inconsistent pacing. Your analysis has given me a lot to think about regarding this game that I’ve never thought of before, especially regarding cutscene direction and story beats.
You've got a great voice for narration. Can't wait to see part 3 and any future projects you have in store!
I'm flattered to hear you say that. I'm honestly super self-conscious about the sound of my voice, and on top of that I have absolutely zero idea what I'm doing with most of the audio aspects of the editing process. So I'm happy to hear that I'm doing something right there.
It's a shame that Takahashi's vision didn't come to life but I hope one day Xenogear and XenoSaga will get a second chance.
it's hilarious that DMC 2 was mentioned because I swear one of the first reviews I saw for Xenosaga 2 said in the main caption that it dropped the ball in DMC2 proportions.
I actually liked the combat system in Episode II. They gave you so many ways to stack damage that it just ended up being unfair. Like the Patriarch is weak to pierce damage so I would just move MOMO behind him, knock him in the air and she would just ruin his entire lineage. One of the optional bosses is weak to ice, so I gave everyone in my party Ice Sword and just chained attacks. Every consecutive attack of the same type gets more powerful, so I had the boss down in just a couple turns.
I agree with all the critiques of Shion. My biggest frustration with her was between the changes in voice and character design, my brain still has trouble thinking of Episode I Shion and Episode II Shion as the same person. They're just different people to me.
The GS campaign was hot garbage and an indicator of the times where playtime was padded by useless running back and forth. The roulette-style quest was one of the worst because of the sheer distance you had to travel on foot to recharge the stupid battery after every 3 tries. But the absolute worst was the Captain's debt. You're basically forced to beat the game anywhere from 18-20 times, sitting through all the cutscenes and credits every time. I actually completed the GS campaign grid once. Never again.
Story-wise, I think your explanation of the narrative choices being subpar would explain why the major feeling I got throughout the entire game was just "When is something going to happen?" The biggest twist was finding out Joachim Mizrahi wasn't a psychopath. So shocking.
So thankful for the lads at resonant arc sent me to your channel, this is a hidden gem, and it makes me so happy to see this community continue to grow someday I hope to finally through my ring in the hat and do a retrospective on xenoblade, and this channel is going to be a huge inspiration
Phenomenal video. And thank you for giving us all the backstory about the developers and what happened to them. So sad to hear about the 2 suicide attempts and so sad to hear about all of the struggles.
I remember truly loving Xenosaga Ep 1 and 3 and never finishing 2. I played these games when I was in my early teens and damn.
I haven't played XS2 in a while and a part of me was remembering it as an okay game. You've reminded me how much of a chore this game was.
Okay, I couldn't keep myself from watching them for too long. Your audio quality has improved greatly since the previous video, and both of them were put together very well. Great work thus far!
I found this video series from the Resonant Arc podcast. You did a great job on these. You're right that episode 2 kind of killed the series. It's actually the reason I never played episode 3. I really enjoyed episode 1, then skipped 2 because I heard it was so bad. When 3 came out and had great reviews, I figured I'd play it eventually but held off because I thought I wouldn't understand the story without the context of episode 2. I figured I'd watch the cutscenes eventually and then play 3, but I never got around to it.
For the sake of getting to Episode 3, which is legitimately fantastic, I think you should still, if nothing else, watch the cutscenes for Episode 2. All the game's cutscenes aren't even 5 hours. It's barely longer than Return of the King Extended Edition.
Though to be fair, it will feel longer because of the horribly inconsistent pacing. Disc 1 moves at a snail's pace, and Disc 2 is on cocaine, neither Disc properly fleshing out the things they are trying to, with a couple of exceptions.
Man I hope you played 3 since writing this comment. It's got issues especially with trying to cram as much of the story into the last act as possible, but it's also fucking great.
My dude, MY DUUUDDEE! Thank you so, so much! I have wanted to hear someone give a solid, objective and truthful review of Xenosaga II! And you sir, have done it! I am excited to hear your thoughts on Xeno 1 and 3. Well done sir, so, so, well done. :D
Thank you for making this doc! So eye opening and well researched.
I'd honestly love to just see an anime at this point. Telling all of the arcs.
I'm not sure it's at all correct to say that Xenosaga was, in substance, a six part series cut to three parts.
In early interviews with Takahashi, he clearly states that the six parts thing was a loose estimate pending the success of each respective title and that any subsequent title after part 1 would be predicated on the sales of the previous one.
While he was hopeful and positive that part 2 would be greenlit, not even that was certain around the release of the first part.
It seems fairly silly to think extensive drafting and substantive plans for later parts would be set in stone when no firm commitment existed in the first place, even to immediate sequels.
This is however the strongest blow to the banal myth that XS2's issues, whatever people think they may be, were connected to lack of profit since XS2 would not have been greenlit at all if XS1 didn't sell well.
Secondly, this is something anyone with half an eye for game development should be able to see from a mile away given the extent of the obvious financial commitment to part two, which by any account would have been much more expensive than part 1 given its drastic graphical upgrade, the hiring of Kajiura Yuki(who in Japan is a much bigger, more profilic and expensive composer than Mitsuda by far) and the even more extensive cutscene production(which is easily the most expensive part of any jrpg production).
Just discovered your channel by chance. This video exposes exactly why Xenosaga II is to me a disjointed and marred experience, but emotionally powerful game with enough glimpses of brilliance to keep it above water, which brigged that gap between 1 and 3 which frankly had no business being as good as it was. For me 'Sweet Song' is still the most impactful track in all of Xeno games and Xeno II has so many memorable tracks like 'Image theme of Xenosaga II' and more.
I finally beat Episode 1 for the first time after trying off and on since it was released (I'm admittedly very bad at turn based JRPGs). After rolling credits, I immediately popped in the first disk of Episode 2. To say I felt sucker punched by every single change would be an understatement. I got as far as the boss in the subconscious domain and gave up after that. I just hate the combat system so much. I think I may finally just watching more story synopsis and jump into Episode 3. Thanks for the awesome content as always. Really love your stuff.
I actually watched your .hack video and felt some nostalgia for xenosaga for some reason. I did a youtube search and came across your video on episode one. I didn’t even know you did both videos videos until i reached the end
just finished Saga 2 today, I've been waiting to watch this one!
I think Olivia Hack honestly did a phenomenal job as Shion, that Cecily and Cath scene I consider to be the best performance of the entire series, she really nails that feeling of complete despair. I think her voice suited the character way better and that the bigger problem is the story does not give her enough to do.
This was very cathartic, thank you.
Also interesting and informative...yet frustrating to know the decisions that led to the mess... Even though it still doesn't explain the awful change in dubbing.
Part two!! Let's goooo
I haaaaaated the look of these faces. And I hate how they changed Momo's voice actress. Xenosaga 1 had Sherry Lynn, who voiced Sasami in Tenchi and Tachikoma from GitS. She was great in it.
Agreed. Plus the tachikoma voice is embedded in my upbringing.
and Mannah from drakengard
21:56 Rings of Power before rings of power.
Again another fantastic video. I didn't remember the game being this bad but I do recall it was by far the worst of the three. The one thing I probably enjoyed the most was Yuki Kajiura's music. It's absolutely beautiful, particularly Image Theme of Xenosaga and Sweet Song (with vocals). I did really enjoy the Albedo arc in this game as well. Thanks again!
Im really really glad you talked about the combat once you reached the part of the umn in 2, because what the fuck i was so annoyed and aggravated not only the npcs gottta tell me they loathed me and i didnt know what that meant but i was struggling so hard to even level up to make it easier for myself because the monsters were so brutal and the the encounter part? they ran like crack heads and i'd sit a the end of their range and watch danger hear the sound and they stop repeat bc no sir the last 3 battles took me 45 minutes.
Boost cancelling was the most annoying thing i have ever experienced. I was pissssssssed with the shops part of this game. It makes absolutely NO sense. And building skills for each person? already getting the skill upgrades was very hard. the break system was amazing but the length of time it takes to build up to efficiently kill and stock.
This is very well thought out and planned thank you so much for the work and dedication that you have put forth in this video.
"Mystic powers grant me a miracle.
stock stock stock
Ether drive
stock stock stock
ether drop."
47:15 "They don't have access to a shop? I don't buy it!"
"No, litterally, I CAN'T buy it. There are no shops in this game!"
The best thing you can say about the battle system is wow Momo going from rod to bow really buffed her combat prowess.
EP2 does have a great deal of problems, though for the most part I do greatly like the -story- (the JR/URTV stuff especially), though having it's other issues laid out like this makes a lot of sense. I will admit to really liking the car chase though, as I find it a bit of a fun throwback to MOMO's crazy driving skills in EP1 :D
As for dub, all I'll say on KOS-MOS is that O'Shaughnessey was better then the XBC2 one. Hack I don't hate, though I don't disagree with how off her delivery was, but Sargent was definitely much better, and while I think Pucelli did a good job as MOMO in EP3, there's something very tinny sounding, I guess, about how she was recorded in EP2. The voice direction in EP2 is really inconsistent in a not great way.
i was there brother, i was there. I was working my ass off, so I thought maybe it was me or i hadn't played the game... correctly. After more playthroughs I just waited for the third with forced optimism.
Little late to getting around to watching your vid, but this vid was great! Really helps shed some light on what went through 2's development and felt just as tight as your Episode 1 vid.
though I honestly feel Xenosaga episode 2 is a fairly good game and do enjoy it, I 100% agree with basically everything you've said about the game. Xenosaga 2 while I don't feel is a terrible game is such a extremely misguided and put together RPG in direction.
My experience going into it was knowing it was the one that a lot of people said was bad, but personally I liked it than what was lead to believe, plus I have a soft spot for Jank games. The break system I think is really fun and pretty satisfying, but I wouldn't want to see more of it. The lack of shops and the dungeon design were my biggest issues with it and were just baffling to me. the parts that stood out to some of the weird gimmicks that felt like something you'd see in some obscure ps2 action game but they're in this.
The music was one of the parts I enjoyed the most, mainly shinji Hosoe's music. First time I played I was like "This is like something out of cyberbots or something" and I found that really enjoyable. does it contrast really hard with the rest of the game? yeah but personally I never minded that much and I think his music gives some good energy to the game. Kajiura I've always been a fan of, but I think her music for Episode II while good isn't one of her finest.
I think what was really enlighting and personally interesting was how takahashi was feeling when making Xenosaga and how he and his wife weren't involved in Episode 2 and 3. With how he felt the games weren't really the right medium for the full vision he and his wife had is something I honestly completely get and understand where he's coming from at the time. You can tell he was and still is an extremely ambitious and passionate creator of what he does and I can understand how frustrating and depressing it is to be limited by what you have in order to fully express yourself. yet he and his wife were behind some of the best narratives in games and showed what the medium was capable of with how they utilized the medium much like Hideo Kojima with Metal Gear Solid and Suda 51 with his Kill the Past games.
I think that kinda brings an interesting point to discuss with how the game industry has changed with so many developers(western ones) putting emphasis on the narrative aspect of games in genres that don't exactly work and such in it and only can do it because they're game devs without knowing their limits and what not. Stuff like the last of us, the order 1886, and bioshock come to mind, which have stories that could be done in other mediums and don't really take full advantage of that medium.
I'm aware what I'm saying doesn't have that much to do with XS II as a whole, but I thought it would be pretty interesting as a discussion point.
Haven't even touched any Xenosaga game yet but I'm still enjoying the retrospective.
Remember playing the 3 games as an young adolescent. I loved watching your video. I have so many mixed feelings on Jenseits von Gut und Bose. I just adored this lored so much from playing the first game that I kind of played the second one with such an emotional attachment, enough to forgive its flaws just because I needed to see that plot go on. As you very well said, despite the disastrous moments Episode 2 presents, there are a few scenes, mainly thosed focusing on the relation between Jr and Albedo, that make this game worth it.
Despite it not fitting in the game, I really enjoyed the soundtrack made my hosoe. It made exploration really enjoyable (I originally played this when I was 12 and as an adult now I still love ot)
That track during the scene at min 40 isn't from Shinji Hosoe for sure. He composed 30 tracks and that isn't one of them, neither sounds like something he would make at all.
Everything to do with Jr. and Albedo and their past is good, barring the presentation issues. I often think "At least 2's story was good" and when I think that I'm pretty much just remembering those parts and forgetting all the crap. Man, it's so weird that Xenosaga is one of my favorite JRPG series and yet I hate one third of it lol.
I feel the same way - it says how good the other two games are that the low-points of Episode 2 doesn’t diminish my love of the series as a whole
@@TJTheEmperor It's a unique and one of a kind series, partially for good reason, despite it's copious amounts of influences.
The reason I love episode 2 was the whole ark with Jr, Albedo and Guignun. I love trios lol
Man having jumped into this video after your Xenosaga ep1 video, I had no idea about a lot of the backstory behind the development of the trilogy. One could argue this video only needed to be 10 minutes long detailing how Namco got rid of the husband and wife duo who created the Xeno franchise, That's all the explanation you need as to why episode 2 does not hit the same lol
So I just want to say despite its flaws. Maybe even to it’s detriment. Xenosaga 2 has the best opening in the series. Canan and Chaos flying through the sky of old militia, the conflict taking center stage the music. I literally felt like I was coming home. I was so excited for this game. Honestly I think the entire beginning was so incredible. Which is why what comes after just feels so out of place. I still liked 2 I replay it all the time. But it fell short of what 3 was able to achieve as a sequel.
Just finished a replay of this game. Pretty much everything you said I agree with and I remembered being that bad back when I was a kid. The thing that I had forgotten was just how bad the dungeon design was. Hardly any exploration, tight corridors with unavoidable and long enemy encounters, the silly puzzles that in context of the world make no sense why they'd be there on those space stations, lack of scale and scope. It really is a shame to see how much this game fell off. The only good bits were the intro scene on old miltia, the flashbacks in the encephalon dive, and then the ending confrontation with Jr and Albedo. That's maybe 2-3 hours worth out of the already short 22-25 hour game. It's largely only that long to begin with because the enemy encounters are all slog fests. Also thank you for now revealling to me that Shion's VA was Ronda from Hey Arnold. I will never unsee Ronda as Shion. It's horrible. I can't stand this!
only positive thing ive ever really said about episode 2 is the music (well Kajiura's music anyway)
I wish they could release the original intended script as a book or something.
Episode 2 down. Another fantastic entry. Can’t wait to finish 3 and bring the saga home. Get more views damn it!
38:28 chaos is just sliding through the chair 💀💀💀💀
The second game effectively killed the series, the weird character models , the poor combat system and a ton of filler stuff that has nothing to do with the overall story in the second game hurt the series so much. But I'm glad part 3 was so good even though they had to cut out a lot of content and condense the remaining story in the third game when it was originally planned to be six games, I'm just grateful we had a proper conclusion. Great video, Xenosaga 2 and DMC 2 are the most disapointing sequels of all time for me personally.
Honestly, DmC and Xenosaga track each other hand in hand for their three games. First very good and original titles, 2nd games are massive failures and almost kill franchise, third games are mind blowingly good in the end somehow.
The biggest disappointment to me is how the game has some compelling ideas that aren't given their due justice. I would love to see a proper delve into Jin and Shion's estranged relationship and their family history. I want to learn more about Jr, Albedo, and Gaignun's childhoods growing up in the Yuriev Institute. I am intrigued by some of the larger ideas at play like why Shion specifically is chosen by Nephilim, why Kos-Mos is so attached to Shion to the point of seemingly overriding her own programming, and the potential for deeper implications of Sakura's impact on the development of the galaxy. But all of these ideas are given next to no time to flourish like they should. I know you said this game's production seemed to go smoother than Episode 1, but I can't shake the feeling that literally everything about it feels rushed. They even needed multiple composers, because perhaps just one couldn't get all of the music done in time. There just had to be time crunch somewhere.
And like you said, this part couldn't really be helped, but the lack of incorporating any philosophy or mysticism into the narrative makes it feel far less planned and cohesive. It's almost unrecognizable from the careful attention to detail and themes in Episode 1. The only sort of consistent theme that I noticed is that the URTVs are analogous to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, but 1. That doesn't really do a lot to develop the story, and 2. It's nowhere near as fitting or compelling as the alchemical relationship baked into their beings already. Nigredo being breaking down, Albedo being cleansing, and Rubedo being completion. These comparisons not only told you a little about their characters, but also how they relate to each other. The Four Horsemen analogy doesn't do either of those anywhere near as effectively.
54:35 disc-course
Unlike most people I liked the character redesigns, unfortunately the in-game execution was atrocious.
Hower Ep3 nailed everything, including superior character designs.
I only made it through Xenogears once, but one issue I had (which illustrates Takahashi's failure) is that the game seemed to spend too much time on side character backstory that didn't really tie into the main arc, when that time would've been better spent on the end game. Overall loved it though.
Comment for the algo good stuff and great break down
Funny thing about the soundtrack, the US release actually changed or removed some of the tracks in select cutscenes (example when Shion argues with Jin in thier house or that awful piece that plays when Shion tells Allen she's about to leave for Old Miltia)
edit: nevermind guess I put this comment too soon
I worked for Blockbuster when Xenosaga Episode II came out. I preordered it through my workplace and got the bonus Xenosaga Episode I movie disc.
That bonus disc was one of the best parts of the game.
I had a few issues with the game, but it is far from the worst thing to happen to the PS2.
The one thing that really bugged me more than anything else was the sound mixing during conversations. The music had a lot of good tracks, but I’d actually like to hear what the characters are saying clearly!
I knew about the division of soundtrack responsibility between two different composers, but had no idea about Hosoe’s involvement!
I guess it might have been a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. Maybe the regular game BGM would have been better received if they matched the tone and style of Yuki Kajiura’s cutscene tracks.
Fatal Fight (Jin vs Margulis) is still one of my favorite fight themes, and Communication Breakdown (which played in a commercial for the game) got me excited for the release. I ended up buying Kajiura’s Xenosaga volume II Movie Scene soundtrack.
I really wanted to like the car chase. But it felt like action for action--you know, no dramatic stakes involved.
Fun fact Xenosaga Episode 1 is a Dual Layer DVD it's nearly 8.4GB since it's a big game Dual layer was logical however costly for printing. Otherwise episode 1 could have been two split disc. Monolithsoft most likely had to use single layer DVDs for a 2 disc split for episode 2 & 3 are Namco wasn't gotta pay for the for dual layer DVDS since disc were costly.
I always just assumed UTIC/Ormus/Immigration fleet were the same SOLELY because it made things less confusing, they needless convoluted so many things in this game in favor of uninteresting and boring villains. The stronghold dungeon is already one of the worst dungeons in an rpg but the fact that you have to backtrack as well as being under a time limit against enemies with way too much health on the way out is borderline sadistic, did they really need to pad the game out cause its already really short, I mean id argue thats one of the games strong suits, its length. God forbid this game was 50 something hours long like Xenoblade, then no one would ever finish it
The length of the game puts me in a weird position. Like, the fact that it's so short made it feel more like a rushed mess, but at the same time, I'd hate for it to be any longer than it is.
As for UTIC/Ormus/The Immigrant Fleet, I feel Takahashi was definitely setting up for some big reveal. In Episode I, when you play as Ziggy on Pleroma, one of the rooms is basically an Ormus church, so there was some big foreshadowing there. If Takahashi had been the chief director going forward, I absolutely feel that reveal would've been handled better, but alas.
This was my first Xeno game. Things about it that other people don't like, i loved, specialy Shinji Hosoe electronic music who is underrated and critiziced by fans.
I think Shions breakdown in THEORY could have been a good scene considering A. shes a heap of ptsd and all sorts of other baggage and B. Shes the only character in the party who isnt a fighter or soldier or weapon or creation for war but the performance just fails the scene completely
Oh absolutely. I can definitely tell there's a germ of a great scene in there somewhere, but the execution was so criminally mishandled that it's easy to forget that.
Another controversial opinion. Maybe I am just naive or maybe you can't see it without the greater context, but the voice acting in the breakdown scene wasn't THAT bad. It was perfectly serviceable from what I saw.
@@ImagesOfAustin It's that "URGH" at the end that kinda ruined it
You are so right about Olivia Hack. I love this game but I acknowledge that it is a 7/10 at BEST. I played the shit out of this game though 😂
I find this game to be much better (music in dungeons thank God!). The story was focused on small piece (junior) and told his story well
You pretty much covered it. The changes to character design and voice actors were totally unnecessary and detracting. It's hard to top the sheer beauty of Episode 1, but wow, you can really tell that something was off.
I did enjoy a lot of the "fan service" moments though. I actually thought the car chase was cool (and of course these robots are going to drive way better than humans can), and I liked when KOS-MOS rode the motorcycle that hooked into the Megazord, but I thought that it was a little cheesy when they made the enemies bigger and bigger.
Like, there's an enemy the size of a planet, and I'm thinking, "Wow, how are they going to top this? An enemy the size of a solar system?" and sure enough, that's what happened. 😅
Some of the most profound moments of Episode 1 were when I'm sitting there wondering if there's a higher power at work in their world, like KOS-MOS' eyes turning blue, or the fact that the dive equipment Shion was using wasn't capable of supporting all of them, and of course all of the religious and philosophical references, but all of that magic is gone from Episode 2. It's like they said, "Okay, let's just make a game."
At least you finished the second game. I got stuck on some dugen level, on the second disk, it was were Shion had to go on the refurbished E.S I think??? :/ It's been over a decade or more since I played it, so if I'm wrong, I apologize. I finally gave up, and stopped playing the second game, watched some cut scenes on TH-cam to see how it ended, and played the third game, for some odd reason, the third game felt way more doable to play, similar to the first game. Besides the graphics of the cut scenes in the second game, they ruined it, they basically changed the character styles, the voice actors changed, I didn't notice till you brought it up, but the music style was way off.
In fairness, the Ormus Stronghold seems designed to make you want to destroy it.
31:28 damn, didnt even mention .hack...
As a Final Fantasy fan, I'm used to series reinventing themselves with every entry. Personally, I loved Xenosaga 2. The lighter tone was a nice break before returning to all the solemn gravitas in 3.
Xenosaga is such a hard sell given the abysmal reputation of this game. I would love to see a remake, despite the fact that it is likely impossible. Maybe a namco/nintendo collab as a switch 2 exclusive?
I love the battles in Episode 2. The enemies get shredded hard if you play well. They mess you up if you don't. When you read about how many people didn't junction any magic in Final Fantasy 8 because they legitimately could not understand the system, or how they fumbled with the element field in Chrono Cross, it starts to become disturbingly clear how unprepared many RPG players are to be presented with new ideas or be challenged in any way, especially when the answer isn't grinding for more stats so you can win by mashing harder. In that light, the response to Episode 2's battle system is unsurprising, but tragic. The absolutely braindead battle system of Episode 3 is a capitulation to the worst instincts that have been cultivated in RPG audiences.
Dear god, I forgot how badly XS2 designs made me want to cut out my eyes. Momo's face is straight up nightmare fuel.
I just bought Xenosaga 1 & 2 (had to import as weren't released in PAL regions, well only the 2nd was). I'll get the 3rd at a later date.
I've played some pretty bad PS2 games or badly designed (like FF7 DoC) so I'm sure I'll handle this one with a positive outlook whatever it's shortcomings.
Damn, there was even *more* in-game music? Not sure how I feel about removing someone's work regardless of tone or anything. They ain't bangers, but to not even shove the tracks into a music player buried in a menu or interactable jukebox on the Elsa or something? Woof.
They sold it in the uk with the 3 parts together
While the game has major story problems my main problem with the game is the battle system and overall character development.
While the first game had boost as a gameplay feature in the second game it was pivotal in order to do the maximum amount of damage to bosses or even normal encounters.
The battle system was also needlessly complicated and if you accidentally pushed the wrong button you screwed up a potential big damage output. Which could end up in a game over because even the normal encounters can kill you, frustratingly.
Also the enemies can get you in an boost stun lock and just kill you. Also this game is way harder then the first game and sometimes feels really badly balanced.
The character development is incredibly boring and while I can see what they were trying to do, giving every character access to the same abilities. In the end you either ended up with every character being the same or a screwed up character build.
I used the official strategy guide to get through this game and thank god for it. I don’t know if I would of beaten the game without it.
Since it seems some bosses have to be beaten in a certain way.
Lmao!! Why Miltia sound like the inside of a Pokémon center 😂
Its a real pity that this game turned out the way it did. Even if the story that was started in Episode one wasn't the full/exact story that Takehashi and Tanaka wanted to tell it was still an amazing story in its own right and I would have loved to see a full version of that story.
Honestly speaking though, in many ways I really don't think this game should be called a Xenosaga game. Even if it is based on the original story that was written, even if it is connected to it, when you throw out the original script and work and make so many changes to what the original creators had decided on and put together, its a different story. A different product. I would have given the developers a pass if a script hadn't been prepared by Tanaka and they had been having to make it up themselves. But when they decided to throw it out because of whatever reason, it became a different game.
And the most abysmally worst part about it was even with that issue I just mentioned, there was still promise there. In more capable hands this still could have been a fantastic game.
One last note on the side, but I think it bears mentioning, the final boss fight of the game was one of the worst designed I have ever seen.
You fight it one on one, which for the sake of story I will admit makes some sense but is a misstep in terms of an RPG with multiple playable characters. It would have made more sense as a penultimate boss rather than the final one.
Then it also lowers the level of danger by having the boss regularly cast an auto-res effect on you. Again, a mistake for a final boss fight as those are supposed to be climactic battles. This was anything but.
As I said already final boss fights are supposed to be part of the climax of the game. This is anything but. Hell, its not even challenging or fun. The overall design of the fight where there is no danger and no risk of loss is more suitable to a tutorial or training fight.
And while I think it is worth mentioning it is at the same time, sadly, par for the course with this game. Even ignoring the narrative and story telling missteps, this game made gameplay design choices that were completely against the most basic fundamentals of gameplay design, let alone established rpg design. It is truly baffling.
Honestly I wondered what would have happened if Tanaka's wife was given the director's role.
(Comment for the algorithm))
I am a huge fan of Episode 1 but never could bring myself to finish Episode 2. It bored me and I absolutely despised the characters new looks (I loved the anime style in the first one). And the battle system really put me off as I was a huge fan of the first game's battle system. Since I never made it more than halfway through 2, I never played Episode 3 because I was afraid it would be more like Episode 2. I still replay Episode 1 to this day, and I do own all three games. I may just have to watch a video on Episode 2 to catch me up on the story so I can skip playing the game and actually give Episode 3 a shot.
You absolutely should. Episode 3 makes up for everything Episode 2 did wrong
Here's a link to all the cutscenes: th-cam.com/video/rPWCJ-ybDro/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUSeGVub3NhZ2EgZXBpc29kZSAy
My absolute number one beef with this game is that you can't buy items. The boss fights are already hard as FUCK but when you can't replenish consumables on TOP of getting your ass handed to you?! Fuck that. I beat this game once and I said never again. I like the story but I know I could never have the sanity to NOT throw my controller through my TV if I ever tried to play this through again. Episode III on the other hand, is a masterpiece!
At least it's a short game.
I dont understand why people have trouble with the system, you have all the resources to beat the game as intended.
I only started dying near the end of the final dungeon because of the enemies that can cast Apoptosis, and due to the secret boss that has to fought in the ES since my main units where the Zebulun and Dinah. Aside from that, my only recollection I might have died to Albedo and the bonuses dungeons that require the use of ES but thats it really.
Also, whilst Stocking doesn't make your characters guard, its important to get the skill upgrades that give you support by regenerating your EP and increasing your dodge rate, the latter of which can be crucial to defeating some of the harder/optional bosses since you can out dodge some of the harder attacks.
Man 20 minutes In and I'm so frustrated for them fudge that sucks ass
1 hour rant video ? insane
I almost finished the game, stopped at the CATHEDRAL boss, I hated it. Just watched the ending on TH-cam and now I will play Episode III and no, I don't regret it one bit. Episode II's combat system was awful and more primitive than the one in Episode I (which I loved). The story is horrible, a mess but I personally loved the music.
It will always break my heart how bad episode 2 missed the mark. The story itself centering the URTVS and Sakura was one of my favorites but the gameplay itself was so off.
See, I love the first game for everything that it has. The story is cools, the music, style, UI and game play to name a few were so perfect..... But... I recently got part two a few months ago.... And so far..... I'm just not as into it due to the lack of quality... And the Audio bugs that snipes the cut scenes. Like man, I could get passed the odd character models, the lacking UI, confusion at times game play, the music not grabbing as good as the first one too. But once I can't enjoy the nice long cutscenes after grinding to beat a boss, that fully messes up the game for me. I'm still on the first disc and I'm struggling to the point I need to push myself to play the damn game. Lol I'm thinking about skipping this one and going to 3...
Glad I only slightly liked episode 1 and wasn't motivated to pursue the series further, if what you say is true. I will say something that is likely controversial. I actually didn't much care for the super big eyes of the first game. Especially since they look stiff and artificial. More like glass marbles than eyes. The uncanny valley was a lot worse in the original models in my opinion. these models (separate from the characters) are a lot better in my opinion. That is, if you forget that is supposed to be shion and kosmos the models are better. Better in the sense they can fool your instincts more effectively if you take my meaning. Especially since in the first game it was only a couple of characters (or models) that actually had those weird souless eyes while most people looked a lot more normal. On the other hand, those characters started with the look they started with, for better or worse, and it can be a bit jarring to see such a radical rewrite of how they looked. It was a tough choice for the developers I am sure, one type of fan service over another.... But I get why they did it and don't really see either option as great. The original models were pretty bad. Changing shion's hair color wasn't needed for the new model though. Not sure why they would do that. Maybe a designer had a bad experience with a red head.
I jailbroke my ps3 just to play episode one and three. Episode two was a huge “wtf”.
I'm actually laughing to myself at how much I disagreed with your analysis :) The model designs, the music, the VA, I think I feel the complete opposite with about 90% of your thoughts. However, I have a feeling that which episode you play first has a major impact on our opinions though. You played EP1 first and think EP2 is the worst, I played EP2 first and think EP1 is the worst xD I see where you are coming from though with alot of it but some statements you made (like about Shions VA) were a bit to "certain" imo since I feel completely different
Same. Played 2 before 1 so i didn't find it as unappealing as most people. I have a theory about Shinji Hosoe music (which i love) and is that whoever was in charge chose him because the previous game was kinda too sad or nostalgic, they wanted a more uplifting music, and around that time Phantasy Star Online was popular, being also a futuristic scifi rpg (if you listen to its soundtrack it is quite similar), so they wanted to imitate that. Im sure that the production of the game was a mess, with misscomunication which ended on having two very different soundtracks.
I just finished Xenosaga ep 2 and I have to wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment of the game as a "disaster."
And then ep 3 feels like they had to retread everything to some degree in a less boring way.
TBH, the OST being only the CS' was disappointing and sad, and they're not awful on their own. The music is the least of it's issues for me, and at worst it's sounds like monotonous lobby music, which should be in mall or lobby zones anyway during scenes with levity or peaceful areas. The biggest issue I have is the like large forgettable chunks of the story and area design that like had nothing to do Albedo and Rubedo's story and the mecha designs. Followed by the character redesigns
The ending scene is literally good, and the there is like 4-8 hrs of versions of the song that they play at the end. The OST was compiled into a youtube video at one point but it's like gone now
I'm not sure if I really agree with your take on Xenosaga 1 being a commercial success. I wouldn't consider it a flop, but I also wouldn't use the presence of spinoff media and merchandise as a sign of commercial success. In Japan, that kind of thing often means a company is trying to pander to a small, high-spending minority of consumers who are willing to pay extra for products and IPs that they like. It's how many otaku-centric IPs are marketed, and Bandai Namco has a long track record of doing this kind of stuff.
Takahashi's overambitious outlook for a series is kinda what destroyed this series more than Xenogears. Xenosaga Episode 1 was never a flop as stated it did go to "Greatest Hits". Also, the idea of a journey to go to a certain destination for reasons was a great idea. Planet and station hoping from ship to city was nice. It achieved it as well as Star Ocean.
The issue with Part II is the massive cut it got by only being in mostly in one set location and things just weren't pushing forward hard enough except only for certain characters even though production value of the cinematics were high. Also, the in game cutscenes were excessively long and didn't push much of the plot forward compared to the better cinematics. If they were to focus more on gameplay and other locations it could have been a decent follow up.
I also enjoyed the boss battle themes in Episode II and the chase theme is one of the best tracks in the game for me that violin solo is amazing lol. The rest of the game was quite a disaster
Damn thanks for spoiling it..... jk iv played them all dozens of times😂
Im actually not a fan of the series at all :D I played this specific game as a kid and I remember the Regeneration cutscene vividly and figured Id see what was up with it. I remember really liking the gameplay as a kid but never played anything else in the series lol
Xenosaga 1 review : OP date his crush girl friend
Xenosaga 2 review : OP married girlfriend and found out reality of marriage
Xenosaga 3 Review : OP divorce and remarry other girls
repeat
So, I only recently played this series (still on 3) and wow 2 is horrible storywise compared to 1.
If 2 was a new IP or the first on the saga series it wouldn't have been horrible. As a sequel it's bad.
I feel like the style of the characters changing made the least sense and really made me go "ehwww" when I first saw it. Why even waste the money on recreating the character assets? I think everyone would have preferred them reusing the old ones.
I wanted to mention about team changes and problem that in Japan there are slander laws different than the ones in the west. If you say bad things (even true things) about someone that hurts their reputation or honor it can be considered slander. That's probably why you never hear the full stories of these things. The people affected may not say if they were wronged or hurt over the matter. It's just different than what we in the west are used to. When people have issues over here we tend to hear all about it and people pointing fingers at who is to blame and for what. In Japan that doesn't seem to really be a thing and you are kinda just left in the dark. They always say the whole "no hard feelings" type of response. Unfortunately we will probably never really know what exactly happend with the whole team change because of all that.