The Proud Family Says Black Ppl CAN'T Be Racist 🤔🤔🤔
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- My reaction to the Proud Family Louder and Prouder episode where Penny says black people can not be racist. What message is Disney trying to send through this cartoon? Let's discuss it. Please don't forget to comment, like and subscribe. Thank You!!!
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Proud family says black people can't be racist.
The boondocks: WHAT DID YOU SAY!!???
[Uncle Ruckus theme song intensifies]
Uncle Ruckus should have a talk with penny. Lol. He would break her reality
At least the reboot PF kids are teens, it's even crazier for little kids like in The Boondocks to be beefing over CRT and black nationalism, etc. It 's bizarre considering the age group.
The boondocks: PAUSE!!!
I have seen recent boondocks stuff, but the early stuff did a really good job calling out black culture bullshit excuses while also actually reckoning with the shit blacks face in the us
Hate is Hate, no matter what color you paint it.
Hell yeh that’s true af
Except hatred towards another race doesn't always equal racism. It almost always does but that's the thing, it ALMOST always does. One noticeable exception is hatred or contempt for them because of their history with them, their actions, or perceived unfairness from them. Take the negative relationship of countries once colonized by Europeans with Europeans for instance. Are you gonna say all these countries are racist towards Europeans since they hate Europeans? Even though they hate them for what they did to them in the past?
Personally, I think that's what they were trying to say.
Simply having rather negative opinions about a specific community doesn't make you a racist or bigot because simply thinking negatively about a community doesn't automatically mean you believe they are biologically or culturally inferior or low level or deserve to be treated as such.
Barring them from opportunities, treating them like second-class citizens, deliberately ignoring their problems in favor of that of your own community, justifying unfair treatment towards them, wanting to kill them without justification, not wanting them around, now that is racism.
Maybe the Penny and Chang case is racist due to the negative stereotyping of Asians by Penny but if your only definition of racism is "hatred towards another race", then, it's not that simple.
@ibrahimihsan2090 if I understood this comment wrong lmk but I can see what ur saying about hating what a specific community has done in the past, but there is no reason to continue harboring that hatred towards the people in the present. So currently hating an _entire_ race off of their *history* with your race is what I consider racist as well since people *have* changed. Also, you can be racist without ill intent, which is probably due to the way that person grew up.
@@ibrahimihsan2090 eh
@@ibrahimihsan2090so im white, if a black guy walked up to me and just started going at me about how i owning slaves and what not, would that still be racist?
That’s a line you’d hear on South Park not a Disney cartoon
Forreal ‼ South Park, Family Guy or The Cleveland Show not Disney 😬
@@TonyTurner So Tony, you think the revival is bad or just a big Yin & Yang mixed bag?
Reminds me of the alternative universe Cartman who is black and she says that 😆
And even then, if South Park said that, everybody would know that it was a joke because they make fun of everyone.
This show made it sound genuine.
@@goatsanimations4480 the show portrayed it as not a joke and factual
*"Black people can't be racist"* is blatant propaganda.
Anyone can be racist.
Racism has never had the caveat that "power/privilege" was needed for someone to be racist.
That was added in by racists who want license to be racists without being criticised for being racists.
I think there may be a semantics problem when racism or other terms for discrimination end up being an umbrella term for systemic discrimination and individual prejudice simultaneously.
never forget it was other africans who started the slave trade first, a lot of people don't wanna admit this but it's true, so by that logic they should hate themselves, not saying they should or excusing any kind of racism, just pointing out a huge logical fallacy here, I completely agree with you
@@ArbitraryOutcome
Which I believe activists use to cause regressive damage
Kind of. It was an academic definition created in the 70s by Pat Bidol a white woman. For high level discussion among legal academics (branched from Critical Legal Theory). In context, it makes a bit more sense why she would want to narrow it down.
However, it's been a problematic definition from the start, and ignores the history of the term which is believing humans can be scientifically divided into racial groups to begin with.
CRT does at least acknowledge these are social rather than scientific divides. However they keep on insisting on them rather than working to dismantle those divides.
The "power/privilege" is so mess up. Just try to apply that to other places in the world. By that logic a white can’t be racist in Africa cause white don’t have « power »
I'm actually disappointed that Disney allowed this messed up and hypocritical narrative to be on a kids show because this might teach children the wrong way. Racism does not apply to one race, anybody can be racist; regardless of their skin color or background.
Agreed.
Absolutely agree.
Period. 🫰
I noticed a lot of shows where the main charecter is black are ABOUT being black. Witch is kind of sad. Evryone else can just be a normal charecter, but main charecters who are black are expected to tackle "Black issues"
@@tell-me-a-story- I don't mind shows tackling issues but this show lied about this issue to children. And yes absolutely we need black characters that are just good characters first and foremost instead of making "diverse" characters with no personality and no motivations.
exactly, WHY would any of this be put into a kids cartoon? i'm losing so much faith in Disney.
Some of the writers are getting too caught up in Twitter activism and forgetting that many children will watch this
The classic cover of the little mermaid has a penis on it, if u didn’t lose faith for them then … wellll😅😂😂😂😂
I know you keep saying ''This is a kids show! Imagine an 8 year old watching!'.'
You need to stop having assumptions for kids watching.
Kids are like little adults and they don't need to be patronized by grown ups.
In fact, when grown ups say 'I won't let my kid watch this kids show! Because I'm afraid to have my kid think for them selves! God Forbid!'
You miss out on letting your kid being a kid and just learning through watching show morels.
@@AM-zo3bf Like I elaborated, kids are smarter than ppl give them credit for especially when most have access to the internet and social media. My thing is that there are more effective ways to include these topics in shows aimed at kids
I miss the old Disney channel !
Penny: black people can't be racist
Uncle ruckus joins the chat
Also Stinkmeaner
th-cam.com/video/fuZnjop54JM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0chZIKxrzcnF1znt
102% African?! With a 2% margin of error?!
Uncle Ruckus would set this show straight in one episode 😂
@@allen8959 he’d at LEAST set Dijonay straight…
This reminds me of that whole weird asf “reverse racism” bs that came up awhile back. Racism is just racism, plain and simple. Don’t matter if you black, white, brown, albino, or hell, green and blue.
I can't overstate how much I hate that term. And how people would be like "this person believes in reverse racism" when no one who believes racism is just racism would call it that. They'd also go "that's just racial prejudice" like there's not a word for that
I think against white people it obviously isn't the same as far as the roots of it and the greater effect it has. For many black people the last thing they heard were slurs and racist words. But if you say "white people should die I don't associate with them and they're all ugly anyway with their raw chicken skin tones and narrow noses" that's racist and unkind. I understand that someone who says that might be traumatized but that never justifies being a terrible person
@@SmonkWonk There also the whole thing about who is considered "white" expanding and contracting based on convenience (i.e. Italians not being considered "white" by Anglo-Saxon standards around the earlier 20th century iirc).
@@ArbitraryOutcome yeah whiteness and race as a whole is much more complex than people make it out to be. Because you have the debate you mentioned, debates on which Jewish people are white. Then if light skinned Hispanic or Latino people are white (i say not unless they TRULY feel they are). It's a pointless debate i feel though. If you feel connected to your roots and identify with a race and the experience of being that race or having ancestral connections to it (not talking about white people that find out they're like 2% Cherokee from their 23 and me or whatever lol) then you should be allowed that sense of community. Light skinned and mixed people and those whose whiteness is somewhat of a gray area still deserve a place of community
@@SmonkWonk I be seeing people on Twitter talk about how the scene is correct and I just don’t understand at all. Using the argument that poc are systematically oppressed unlike white people and yea… that’s very much 100% correct, but there’s a literal term for that. Systematic racism, not the actual word racism.
Hell you can cross reference with different words like sexist, both do not specify if it comes from a specific group of people, just that it is an act against a particular person or group, (insert typical* target here as an example)
@@Official_Twistanity I’d argue that you have the systemic part 100% backwards. If you’re black, you can get into any job, any school, under a lower standard than a white person. There are scholarships just for being black. There are black-only organizations. You can be the biggest f-up in the world and just blame your self-caused problems on racism and the idiots on the internet will believe you. You can say the most racist things in the world if you’re black, and the media will celebrate it because supposedly can’t be racist. In terms of how the “system” works, there’s quite a bias in favor of black people.
A lot of people in the black community aren’t ready to hear this, but a lot of y’all say shit that would you get you cancelled EXPEDITIOUSLY if you weren’t black. The ignorance I see on Black Twitter and other social media on a daily basis astounds me sometimes. 🤦🏽♀️
I saw a TikTok once that was like "black people what's an unpopular opinion you have that would get you canceled" or something and half the comments were "mixed people aren't black" and that's othering that goes beyond colorism (they didn't say you have to look mixed & a lot of mixed people look more like one race than the other) it's a problem I see within the community but also how those outside of it are treated. there's no immunity, you don't get a pass to be an ass regardless
@@SmonkWonkI got into an argument with a girl who tried to say that I wasn’t a “real” African because I’m lightskin. My family is from Guinea in West Africa, and we range in complexion from very light to very dark. Joke’s on her, though. All of my ancestry tests say that I’m 99% West African (and ironically the only non-black ancestor I know of is my darkskin mother’s white great-grandfather). 😂😂😂
@@princess_ama that kind of othering is so ignorant. I'm half black, my siblings have more black features than me and I'm pretty ambiguous. And it's like, how am I not black and what percentage of white makes you not black when for obvious and unfortunate reasons most black Americans have some amount of white ancestry? It's not like white people think I'm white enough so I can't even find a place of belonging there.
I know what plantation my ancestors are buried on and I'd be there too if we woke up tomorrow and it was 1830. Those ancestors would consider me one of their own I like to think. Not that you need that generational trauma to be black because not every black person is American or has roots in slavery. But we still should stand in solidarity with those who identify with their black heritage. Being a little less discriminated against isn't a privilege
I mean Ellen Craft used her mixed background to escape slavery with her husband William Craft by disguising as his white master. If she were caught she would have been killed or returned. I wonder if these people would argue that she wasn't black though? She was a house servant given as a "gift" when she was only 11 for God's sake. If she lived in present day these ignorant people would tell her she's white bc she was white passing
Rules for thee not for me nonsense.
And a result from pushing this intersectionality lens and "x is whiteness, whiteness bad"
@@SmonkWonk
I never learned of my ancestory, personally never cared for it because it didn't matter to me.
I'm who I am regardless of my skin and heritage, and a American first and formost.
Whether you label what Penny did as bigotry, being a jerk, or racism ... the harm the writers did through stereotyping Asians is the same. "I can't be racist" Penny seems like she's just deflecting or changing the subject instead of actually addressing whether this was right or wrong. The writers presume to call out prejudice on their show ... but they don't address their own issues of colorism, bigotry, ableism, and other problems. Zoey feels like a whipping girl for no reason and this .... isn't how you break down important social issues.
Each sentence you wrote was an entire truth of its own. This series is a social mess.
This show is so cringey to watch. Tbh, I was never really a fan of the OG series either (bc I was annoyed by how fake Penny and her friends were). But this one is something else. I feel like the characters are even worse than they were before.
I think the reboot attempted to call out the ignorance in the characters vs
The original which made the writers look completely blind and ignorant themselves.
Even worse, now that I think of it, the conversation could have been done without saying “racist” at all. In fact the whole usage of it seems like it was there to give Maya the otherwise derailing line.
It's especially bad because Zoey isn't just white - she's also Ginger & Jewish.
I shouldn't need to explain why that makes the way the writers use Zoey especially disgusting.
In a show written by GOOD writers, Penny would learn that she is being racist towards the Chang triplets, apologize to them and become a better person.
They need to stay off of Twitter and keep their Twitter discourse outta kids shows.
Based
In a good show, Maya would've been called out for starting shit and for lying about not being racist. Cause, what it comes across as most of the time is Maya's personality is "performative activism" and acting like a thug, when she's in reality a nepo baby. She was given a silver spoon when she was adopted and seems to forget that her dads are pretty much RICH. She acts like she's from the ghetto and maybe, something in a competent series could've explored is Maya acting way too hard like that to 'fit in' and finally being told "You know what Maya? Ever since you came to this school, you've been nasty, a bully and a RACIST to everyone who isn't YOUR SPECIFIC BRAND OF BLACK!" and have some retrospective. Could've even had the Chang triplets call her out on that "black people can't be racist" comment and have them point out how she and Penny just WERE.
A show written by great writers would also have her call out Asians and Hispanics for their anti-blackness, not just whites.
But is she really? I get that the way the writers presented them in the original series was problematic, and played into a lot of stereotypes. However In universe they are straight A students, it seems logical that if your going to look for a replacement you would go for classmates you know are studious, if not down right smart.
The dumbest part is that the scene implies that using the "right" definition of racism is more important than the racially motivated act. The only people who genuinely benefit from this being the only definition of racism are people who just want to downplay their own racism.
It kinda reminds me of how homophobic assholes will say "I can't be a homophobe, I'm not afraid of gay people!!!"
not at all a thematic comparison, but the argument feels like pedophiles “um, actually”-ing that *actually,* they’re hebephiles.
@@bulcanworks Oh yeah, those people are even stupider. Someone in my Human Communication class actually tried to make that argument last week. Needless to say, everyone in the class, including the teacher, now finds him very sus.
EXACTLY
It doesn't address the fact that you are still judging someone by the color of their skin and that you're horrible for doing that
Watering down that action to "just being a jerk" is abhorrent
You mean like how TH-cam defines "hate speech" as "anything that cuts into the profits of our advertisers"?
This episode shows me that the writers are lazy. I think politics are fine in kids entertainment (i.e., Zootopia is about prejudice and racism & WALL-E is about climate change and environmentalism) but it’s HOW you talk about it.
EXACTLY ‼ The Proud Family used to be a great example of how it could be effectively done but now the writers are over doing it
Remember back when Disney was diverse and they weren't even trying?!
I miss those times.
Those movies knows how to show politics. Proud family does not.
@@Father_of_Death I miss that days too, sadly I don't think we will ever have that again.
This shows is pure propaganda for modern ideologies... Hell they even have characters hold or show because about race, written by some of the worst folk in modern history. You had the "White Fragility" book, which basically about hating white folk for the sins of their ancestors, and it was written by a woman who is a known racists. You also have Tanahesse Coats, a man who in his biography says how he laugh and took pleasure seeing 9/11 happening.
With stuff like this, you just see how sick and twisted the people behind this show are.
This reminds me of a very common problem in Latin America. Where white Latinos (also brown to be honest) tend to look down on indigenous or darker skinned Latinos (calling them cardboard colour, tyre colour or even poop colour). And when they are called out for that attitude they say "Latinos can't be racist" or "In Latin America there is no racism only classism" and all that bs.
Do they really? I wasn’t aware of this. I thought this was just a black thing.
@@fan7708 No this happens in many ethnicities
Yeah I have a cousin who says she is cardboard color but is also racist against people darker than her and it’s so icky 😅
I got into an argument over that shit. People were telling me to google my own research. Ironically it was over the proud family, and LaCienega.
That could be it's own video, I even experienced where light skinned Latinos were colorist or racist against darker skinned ppl but have a nonchalant attitude about it
What Maya is describing is institutionalized racism, and she is completely oversimplifying the different forms and definitions that racism can take on.
Hell, I'd love to see the Chang triplets have an episode dealing with the racism they faced in the original series and maybe even thoughts about internalized racism and the harm that it does.
It really does seem like the reboot is pandering a bit and not really focusing on the kinds of stories they're wanting to tell, the lessons they want to teach. It comes across as a lecture rather than a believable depiction of the world we live in.
Because the show wasn't made with kids in mind, it was made for college age Twitter users in mind. You know, the types that only share a loanable braincell as a collective.
I think the idea of institutionalized racism makes sense. This is something that existed historically in the United States and it had long term repercussions even after legal equality was fully established.
The problem with (Any marginalized community) "can't be racist" is that it requires thinking in terms of moral relativism. The logical implications is that if you took a cross burning, hood wearing member of the KKK and dropped them in the middle of an African community that wasn't colonized, that has no while people in institutions of power, and where prejudice against white people runs strong, is no longer a racist, but is now essentially a freedom fighter.
It's a problematic belief system.
Weirdly, the Chang triplets did have a hypocritical scene addressing the model minority stereotype in the original series. In the episode "Curved", Penny needed a debate partner and went to the Chang triplets to ask of any of them was up for it. Even though this is precisely the sort of opportunity they would have jumped at in the original series, they react with disgust at her stereotyping them as "model minorities". Keep in mind, at no point were they previously depicted as growing past that characterization to justify that response.
So, they dealt with the racism of the original series by lashing out and calling others bigots.
@@grantstratton2239 IKR!? People who tend to use that belief system generally look DOWN on the people they claim to champion! Like they aren't even people to them, just little pets to keep close to look better. I mean this IS where the term "Purse Puppy" comes from. It's belittling them for the sake of having an accessory!!! It's fucked up!!!
Oh, I assumed the point of her character in the first place was to constantly speak on issues she didn’t know 🤷♂️
Even MLK Jr stated that Black Supremacy was just as dangerous as white supremacy. It seems like the creators did very little research when developing this season.
Good on him as a white man seeing my race be discriminated because of the color of our skin and what our ancestors did what they did was not our fault all race's ancestors are guilty of this but that does not make it our fault for their actions black supremacy is just as bad as white supremacy MLK had the right idea such a shame he was killed by a racist scumbag when he fought for black and white people to coexist sorry for the essay I have autism and can get carried away with my comments occasionally
Nell Carter achieved it the moment she converted to Judaism.
Oh no, they know exactly what they wrote. They just went beyond their usual wokeism to just blatantly say how far left they are now, considering the definition is defined by collectivism
I want more shows emphasizing tension between asian and black communities to actually destroy prejudice in both groups.
That would be interesting to see. I also really want the Chang Triplets to have an episode dedicated to them as well
I would love to see a show covering asian and black tensions.
Honestly! People always talk about how Asians can be racists towards Black people, but never the other way around. As a black woman, both us and Asians have such rich cultures but we’re too busy fighting with each other to enjoy it.
@shostysboo this. Bigotry is fluid and destructive and I want more black sitcoms tackling black people being racist.
More on making all races stop acting racist and call out the hypocrisy and bigotry as the so called idea of saying it's OK to be racist to certain races is just a slippery slope to extremism when it's normalizing it further
As I’ve said before, the Chang triplets in the original series pretty much WERE stereotypes. Honestly I was pissed at this. Also the “prejudice plus power” thing, I never understood that because “power” is a vague term.
This combined with Noah’s episode really made me want to scream.
The prejudice + power definition comes from Systemic Racism.
It's constantly thrown around as a way to handwave away interpersonal racism.
It's interesting because if the Chang triplets were the ones mistreating Penny based on her race or stereotyping her would they not be racist? And would the writers be equally quick to say "this isn't racism, Asians can't be racist"?
@@SmonkWonk this is why “racism” works so much more when you define it as “prejudice about someone based on race”
Penny wasn’t even “mistreating” them but pretty much expecting them to be consistent to their character.
You might as well have Dijonay being a decent person and getting mad at someone for expecting her to be a horrible friend.
@@SmonkWonk There's also the question of what you'd call it if, say, Barack Obama called an average white person by a slur or said some other horrible thing directed at their race. Obama is clearly a lot more powerful than the random white guy down the street- would that not be considered racism by the "power" definition too? Or would he also be absolved despite him not being oppressed?
So I’m a black girl I remember being in middle we had these two boys from Indian and I remember the other kids (I went to a majority black and Hispanic school) would mock their accents their names and how they smelled like curry. What’s interesting is that we also had some girls from Africa (sorry don’t know which part this was years ago) and they were treated similarly mocked for their accents and the way they smelled. So yeah we as black people can definitely be racist. I’ve seen it from classmates and from family. I come from a mixed race family and my grandfathers mother didn’t want him marrying a dark skin black women because she didn’t want her grandchildren coming out dark. The lighter kids in the family got treated better by said person. It’s a whole mess but good video 👍
On the bright side of your messy experience, at least you now know first-hand that ignorance and hatred comes in all colors. Hard times tend to make good people.
Sounds more like kids being bullies and mean spirited.
@@MrMharris1990 still racism
@@gaminganimators7000you obviously don’t know the definition.
I'm latina (Mixed) And the most blatant instances of racism i've ever experienced were usually from people with skin tones similiar are darker than mine.
Usually people giving me shit because latina automatically = mexican, or more often people giving me hell when they saw my father was white.
My ex friend was a MASSIVE racist and when we went into a burger place to get some food she started loudly complaining that there were too many white people around. I told her off and said "What if people said that about us?" to which she said "It's THEM that are the problem." and when I pointed out that she was engaged to white guy she said "Well he understand the problem with HIS KIND."
I ultimately cut ties with her when she said get this "saying that people should be treated as people and that skin color shouldn't matter." was "An anti black sentiment."
I think the writers just don’t know how to write an episode about race like they used to. The colorism episode made me shook at my head. Everyone was wrong by the way they treated Zoey.
I don't think they ever knew. That episode about the Muslim family wasn't as progressive as people remember.
@@patronofdragons It was progressive for its time. It aired two years after 9/11 when Islamophobia was high in the United States.
I agree
Japan can do a better job talking about racism without it being on real races in their manga or anime
They know. They just have agendas to push, that’s all
Also, as a friend of mine points out, it’s not a show for kids anymore: it’s a show for the creators, and whatever they want to say.
To be fair though, Maya saying that is in character for her. And I guess that’s part of the problem.
All the kids who watched this are adults now, that's why it's the way it is. Same with the She Ra remake. All the 80s kids are adults now, that's why it's got lgbtxzye=mc2 stuff in it now.
@@Afmedic85yeah but I’m a high school senior and I thought She Ra was awesome. It combined technology and fantasy beautifully. Not to mention it has a good amount of lore
@@Afmedic85 then why is the title character even identifying with such an outdated and patriarchal pronoun? "She" is just "he" with an S at the end. That's like trying to pre-face the word "crappy" with the word S and sell it as a character on a cartoon. You are still lampshading a profane poop joke on a show aimed at five-year-olds. If Dan Schneider is worthy of that kind of scrutiny for naming a character after the perineum, then I think naming a dog and his nephew after a bowel movement deserves at least as much scrutiny since they did it first.
Man this is getting embarrassing. It's like the writers just went on 2010s Tumblr to get "updated" on race issues. I thought we were done with the "rAcIsM iS pReJuDiCe + pOwEr" definition because a) that's more of a description of *institutional racism* b) it's such a oversimplification of the psychology and experience of racism (like no way would I leave it at someone calling me a slur as only being "a jerk" just because they aren't white! That's crazy! 😭😭😭)
Forreal ‼ The writers are too wrapped in trying to pander to "woke millennials".
Disney is always four or five years behind any sociocultural trend at any given time, and when they try to play catch-up, they are arguably even more embarrassing than whatever it is from their past they are ashamed of now.
@@TonyTurner what is so woke about hating Israel and supporting emasculation? I was raised to believe that supporting Israel and accepting homosexuality were liberal values. Now, Barry Manilow might as well be Pat Boone!
The biggest problem with proud family, specially this reboot, is this negative and toxic mentality of the black community, but still showing in a positive light
"Black people can't be racist" said the protagonist who saw a huge issue about a Black boy only wanting to date white girls and was seen as in the right and the victim in the episode. I don't see much of an issue of them talking about heavy subjects, even if it is for children, but they need to do it right
She's also objectvely treated the 'nicest' in her group of friends (also the lightest POC in the group). Lacienega is a stereotypical rude, mean Latina girl who fakes sweetness and will backstab Penny, Dejonay is the loud and flirtacious dark-skinned girl who will also backstab Penny, Maya comes off as abrasive and very 'you have to act like this or youre fake', and Zoey is the butt of the jokes because 'haha white and ugly' .
Also this is the friend group who got mad at their friend for being asked out by an attractive black boy because she was white. But when he's later seen with another white girl, they don't tell her or seem mad at her , they just go 'yeah hes trash' and then say nothing when another black kid dances with Zoey because 'hes not attractive and is nerdy like her' (though he does say he likes Zoey for her brains, though I think before then he was complimenting her looks, idk)
It'd be fine if Penny learned throughout the episode that she was wrong, but that would have to be the focus of the episode.
Even with the "prejudice + power" definition of racism... Are there no black managers? Black cops? Black judges? Are they saying that there are no black people have some kind of power over white people? Because there definitely are...
for isntance, not taching people that anything penny says and does in these situations is right
Not to mention they portray black women as selfish and ghetto simpletons.
Whenever I see the proud family reboot being talked about it’s not good.
As far as I know the original is better.
I feel like good writing doesn't need to beat the audience over the head with the message. That's one of the problems with this new version of proud family. As a black woman, the majority of the shots I had towards me about my race and skin growing up were from other black people. Not to say it never came from white folks, I've had those encounters too unfortunately. But people of every race, background, gender, orientation, etc can be discriminatory towards anybody, including their own. Just like anyone can be capable of kindness. That's extremely backwards to tell children that minorities aren't capable of being negative towards others bc of their outward appearances, especially after how they treated Zoe during that other episode.
Right‼ I also remember most discriminating things coming from other black kids when I was in middle school for example. They really dropped the ball with this
If you think about it, in a way, racists are just living in a shared fantasy world.
In reality, we're all part of the same race.
the human race
this argument reminds me of people saying "women can't be misogynistic!" when clearly, it's possible. people get hung up on formalities and definitions so much that they lose sight of the actual problem which is "being discriminatory regardless of your own ethniticity". pointing to light-skinned people and saying "they're the one's suppressing us" when confronted with your own biases is really just you falling into the whataboutism trap.
edit: also the way they employ 'tell-don't show' in these episodes makes the writing look lazy and incompetent. like you said, kids won't understand these sophisticated and new terms. and it's okay to explain what these words mean but they could incorporate it better in the narrative. show us how this "model minority myth" is pushed onto the Chang siblings, dedicate scenes to them and how they're facing sociopolitical struggles (in the school setting) despite being seen as the smart, successful Asians. but don't sit there and rant about it without engaging the audience.
Woman can be misogynists! Women can hate other women! Women can also be sexist against men, it’s called Misandry.
I would say a better analogy here would be "women can't be sexist".
@@marieg595Yeah, but they're still right. Some of the biggest misogynists I've seen were women. My own grandmother in particular. Back during the 2008 election, when Hilary Clinton was trying to run, she flat out said that a woman couldn't handle being president. It absolutely shook me that a woman who ran her own business, regularly lift 75lb bags of horse feed, and help change the tires on an 18 wheeler could put down women as being weak.
Also none of these girls communicate the way a teenager actually would.
There’s no quirks in the dialogue that would indicate that these are teenage girls, they just spout the authors opinions in a very clunky way.
That’s bad writing.
Never heard that one before. Pretty sure it's a well known fact that women are awful to each other.
I am shocked Penny would spout such uneducated nonsense. Also the whole joke with the Chang triplets being stereotyped for being smart would work IF in the original they weren't seen getting straight A's or having a tiger parent of a father. They ARE smart and That's why Penny went to them for the debate team, but they each developed their own interests and personality and they all had stuff going on.
What got me about this line is that they claim that black people cant be racist, and not really in a joking way either, yet in the original Proud Family, which was created by a black man, the Chang triplets are portrayed as very stereotypically Asian.
Treating Asians the way Asians treat black people.
The most racism I've received as a Chinese American have always been from black peeps .
My best friend is black and I refuse to go to a certain market because I overheard the owner telling the other employee to follow him for he would steal . John doesn't understand mandarin so he didn't hear it but it really grossed me out and I refuse to go there now .
Me too! I’m mixed Filipino American and Irish White, the most racist stuff said to me for being part Asian or part white or a mixed person were said to me by Blake people
Why would Disney do this? No wonder why people stopped watching them.
I wonder y Disney and Disneyland do alot of things. This is coming from a Disneyland fan smh..
Because Disney is no longer a company about spreading love and inspiring people... Is now just a company about politics and division... You can blame that on the CEO Bob Iger, who only wanted to use Disney to run for President in 2024, and later on so that he could get in good terms with China and become an ambassador of sorts.
only reason i have disney on my phone is to watch the same 4 shows
Fighting hate with hate is not a good strategy
No it is the equivalent of throwing water into a grease fire.
It just spreads and makes the problem bigger.
You know what annoys me, when racism in the US is focused only on African Americans. I understand there is a lot of history with AA in the US, but the media sometimes make it look it racism is only a big problem for AA in the US when all races deal with it.
Yep!
People like to say "Slaves built 🇺🇲" which, not really. They could better argue they built the south.
But do you ever see chinese-americans chant "Chinese Immigrants built the railroads" even though thats basically true?
Don't even get me started as someone who is Indigenous American
Asians were getting attacked all the time during covid...by black people
It is the same reason that the media only focuses on a certain tribe when it comes World War 2 suffering. They never mentioned the Chinese that were genocided in that same War.
@@zoexgaara you got an issues with aa being brought here against our will and that being focused on when its js as bad as the native american genocide
I was told by an ex friend (who happened to be black) that what I endured as a Rromani person and that what happened/happens to my people in Europe wasn't racism but just predjudice. It is racism. It started because I politely asked them not to use the term G*pped because it is a slur for my race.
I thought our races had solidarity because we were both abused under chattel slavery and other such atrocities. We were targeted in Hitler's Final Solution along with Jewish people BECAUSE of our race. We still endure systemic racism as well with a lot of LAWS in countries basically outlawing us purely because we are Rromani. We are deported regularly and told to never come back (France) from homes we have lived in for generations and even in America there is a special racial profiling unit for just Rromani people. I have to hear a slur in casual everyday use as a name for both people and animals and as a general descriptor.
Do not tell me I don't and have never experienced racism, and belittle my and my people's struggles as mere prejudice.
I'm so sorry that you had to deal with someone who is completely ignorant. When I learned even a portion of what y'all go through on a regular basis made my heart ache.
I hope you're doing well.
I'm so sorry you've had to deal with people invalidating what your people were put through and what you're still going through. I'm also very sorry that I personally didn't realize that word was so racist. It's so integrated in vocabulary where I live but I'm not going to be using it anymore. I greatly appreciate that you shared your experience here.
I never heard of that word before. I do not even know which vowel was censored.
It still sucks that you go through all that.
@ I think it's supposed to be a y. The derogatary term for gypsy.
It's a common saying for people who have been ripped off to say they've been gypped.
The Romani people Are more commonly known as gypsies.
So when someone says they got Gpped. it's offensive to the Romani people.
could be wrong. That's how I understand it.
@@wimsylogic65you're right
I honestly dread the fact I could potentially get into in an argument over this one specific topic with an ignorant person. How could you just say someone can’t be racist?
The nerve they had
Actually from a sociological standpoint black people cannot be racist by definition,however they can be prejudice. For racism to be “executed” correctly you have to have power.
@@ssbby5774 thats some bull crap and you know it. Theres personal racism and systematic racism
@@ssbby5774 Racism is perjudice, not necessarily linked to power, so you just said black people can be racist by using with other terms.
@@dustyrose192 If you study sociology that’s how it’s structured don’t be mad. Personal racism sounds like prejudice like I said.
11:58Thank you for addressing this. As someone with Asian blood, it does get under my skin how mocking Asian accents is still kinda normalized, and 2021 was definitely a rough year with how Asians were treated. I didn’t even want my mother to leave our house with the violent hate crimes going on. I appreciate your unbiased and fair points from all perspectives.
also felt like that context made this episode super tacky, lol. asian hate has had a huge rise since 2020 and you have an episode where you say that a certain race cant possibly be racist towards asian people when those very characters used to be blatant asian stereotypes. certainly a choice.
Same it broke my heart every time a hate crime against Asians came up on the news
Tell that to Israelis and Russians. The "stop Asian hate" movement sure was awfully quiet about the hatred the greedy imperialist west has incited against these two great and glorious Asian nations.
@@thepinkelephant2520 remember the Asian cop in San Francisco who got caught being racist and was fired? This was a few years ago.
@@Attmay paint huffer spotted
You know there was a fairly odd parents episode where Timmy wishes everyone looked the same resulting in the entire human race looking like black and white versions of Bloo from fosters home for imaginary friends (or the pac man ghosts) and Timmy saw that his neighbors were still jerks because he realized that he no matter if everyone looks the same on the inside people can still be terrible
That show was weird, I can't believe I'm saying this but it sounds like that had a better message than this... FAP did have some offensive stuff in it too and the creator is a little racist, but at least it wasn't as racist as THIS show.
@@jocelynecupcake thanks for reminding me that the acronym for fairly odd parents is FAP, really cool
Saying black ppl can't be racist is like saying women can't be sexist🤣
Or even like saying no binary people can't be sexist, no saying they can't, be some people may excuse them because they see them as brave enough to not identify as a specific gender
THANK YOU.
In my last year of middle school, I, a white person, was not allowed to go to my friend's house because her father "Didn't like white people." My friend and her father were black. I remember more than anything just being sad and upset that I couldn't hang out with her after school.
Oh, that sucks🙁
I hope you two found a way out
I’m sorry that you had to deal with that, that’s really awful behavior
I'm Asian and I was called many slurs by blacks and whites growing up. Even the teachers didn't care and would just let them. It was a southern school in the 2000s, but still. I even dated a black girl who said she was racist against whites. Everyone can be racist and when people deny that it only hurts their cause, end of story.
Yes, and I hope that people would know better.
They had plenty of racism-based episodes back in the day like when Penny had a dream or something about being back in the Jim Crow days and still befriended Zoe. Her parents were even concerned when she brought a white girl home because they were worried about it causing trouble
The problem isn't the subject. The problem is these writers don't understand the subject and think they're smarter than they actually are
Disney cannot even release a movie about a male rabbit with a pink shirt while they are paying their employees to turn their sons who like pink into their daughters.
I think it's really convenient to define "power" in a way that absolves you of having to think about your own relationship to it, and your responsibility not to harm others.
Kids are super literal. This could potentially be having children think they have a pass. To be racist because they are black
Can we at least appreciate the Chang's triplets glow up
Definitely ‼
My parents didn’t know who they are til I told them 😂
That meme of the chicken saying "wait a minute hold on" makes me laugh. 😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In a cartoon marketed toward children, they are failing to present the issue at the level that is real and relevant to those children _where those children actually are today._
I'm 70 years old. I started school before the Civil Rights Act, while Jim Crow was still spinning full speed. I was in middle school before I ever sat in a classroom with white kids or a white teacher. It would wrong for me to present my situation to children today as though it were their situation.
I believe it was Chris Rock (maybe Dave Chappelle) who said, "We've got the best white people today than we've ever had." I'm here to testify: That's true. It's a different world in middle school for the Alpha Generation than it was for the Boomers (like me) or the X-Gen or even Millennials.
The writers in this show are presenting their world to children who are not in their world...and won't ever be.
The election of Donald Trump alone should disqualify anyone from saying "we've got the best white people today than we've ever had"
Wow. Thanks for sharing your experience ‼
@@MattEldritchHorror I'll tell you where you don't understand, then I'll tell you where you're correct.
When I was a kid in the 50s right up to the Civil Rights Act in 1964, in many states any white person on the street could kill a black kid out of hand, _bang,_ and would not be convicted for it. We saw that happen with the Emmett Till case, with the 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing, and with the Freedom Riders bus attack. The perpetrators were prosecuted, but it was a joke all along...they knew they'd never be convicted. They ate popcorn and joked in the court room. In the case of the Freedom Riders, the local police actually had a prior agreement with the mob to "do whatever you want to them for 10 minutes before we step in."
Our parents understood that situation. For the most part, they kept us away from white people as much as possible. They taught us to treat any white person like a bear wandering into the yard. It wasn't a joke.
So, are white people today better than that? Yes, they are.
But here is where you are right: It's generational.
The Boomer Generation was the last generation that was taught by all of American society that segregation was the norm. Even if a white Boomer's parents didn't personally teach it, segregation was presented to them by all facets of American society. Every Boomer was taught there was places and roles for white people and other places and roles for white people.
Generationally, people don't change much from the way they were raised. "As the sapling is bent, so grows the tree." Change takes effort, and most people don't go to that much effort. I'm a mid-Boomer...I was in middle school before I ever sat in a classroom with a white kid. I'd never met a white kid before middle school, I'd never even been on a playground or in a movie theater or swimming pool with a white kid. Older Boomers were adults before their world got segregated. I was in high school before there was ever an African-American kid in children's television programming.
Young black people today can't even fathom living in a world like that. You're upset about how police might treat you...when I was a kid, _any_ white man could kill you or rape your mother and walk away.
So, for most Boomers, segregation still lurks as our social norm, even if it's 'way in the back of our minds. Most Boomers still have segregation in our hearts, and the social effect of that won't go away until we die.
The generations after us did not have segregation inculcated into them by all of American society the way we did, and it's been decreasing ever since. White Millennials are better than white Boomers and definitely better than the white WWII generation. White Gen Z are even better.
Obama won because white Millennials turned out in big numbers to vote for him; Trump won because the white Millennials stayed home and Boomers voted.
@@MattEldritchHorror Our current guy was the one saying "if you can't figure out who to vote for, you ain't black" so idk about that.
Mind pointing out wherever Trump said something to a similar degree though? Genuinely
@@MattEldritchHorrorthe rich man that treated everyone the same regardless of race or the biden guy who was literally close friends with the head of the kkk and actively attacked the black population for decades? Hmmmm
I had a co-worker who said the same thing and I literally told him, "whatever makes you feel good. It's wrong either way." I guess he did feel bad afterwards but we still are friends at the end of the day. I think it takes an adult to accept it's okay to be wrong. But actions speak louder than words. I'm Puerto Rican and pale. I always get accused of being white because of my skin color. But when I tell them my ethnicity they become embarrassed or just plain don't care. I just focus on myself either way. No need to make a big deal about it.
I've heard of similar experiences with people from Latin American during interactions with Americans. There was this Peruvian woman of Japanese descent who said that a bunch of American people she met were absolutely shocked when she told where she was from. I guess the mental image that a lot of Americans have of people from Latin America is that of a mestizo, which is someone of mixed european and indigenous ancestry. Which i always found funny, as Latin America has people of pretty much every race under the sun.
I'm also a pale Puerto Rican and would get constantly bullied for my skin color (I'm from the south) but whenever I'd tell them my ethnicity I'd get made fun of even more with eye rolls and "uh huh" 😭
This makes me pretty uncomfortable. Racism can be defined as believing one race is better thsn others, or that one race is worse than others. Ie, racism equates worth to race. This is just... sad.
There's a reason you don't sit Little Billy down to watch Human Centipede. He lacks the context or maturity to know that the events that take place in the screen are entirely fictional, and he is going to have nightmares for weeks to come. You could introduce him to other entries in the horror genre. He could watch Goosebumps or FNAF. Same goes for this critical race or gender theory, which are perfectly fine topics for a college or enriched high school class where they will be discussed and unpacked in a preferably critical an unbiased fashion. You can teach Billy that racism is bad by teaching him about the Civil War, Jim Crow, or any number of other instances in which humans were awful to each other.
You should’ve used “Get Out” as the movie in your hypothetical, fits way better and is a _bit_ less disturbing (only in that it lacks the stomach-emptying body-horror aspect)
How is teaching kids that being trans is ok comparable in any way to showing them an intense body horror movie?
It’s funny how they mention only one race was inslaved but every race was in slavery.
Not in America
The Irish and Chinese were slaves in America too.
@@yo-sefakimbey7009 there were Irish slaves and black slave owners
@dragonfurry1590 in the United States of America yes. If you want to talk about the slavery in the West Indies that's probably something that they would teach at one time in florida. Other than that, the education of slavery in different parts of the world is probably taught in those parts of the world. The entirety of this conversation is about slavery in the United States
Don't they still show that 1950s movie about Jewish enslavement in Egypt on TV every year?
So this has nothing to do with racism ( maybe) but anti semitism, so my family is Jewish, I’m a young Jewish man and everytime my class learns about the holocaust a lot of people I know will often disregard Jews and talk about how “they’re white” “they didn’t suffer as much” “why should we care” “they run everything now” I don’t know where else to bring it up I’m sorry
I think that mindset comes from what is emphasized throughout most American history classes
That's actually racist sorry man
That's actually a form of racism 😞
Calling Jews yt is calling Jews the same race as Adolf Hitler. It is a disgusting lie designed to make us look complicit in our own systemic oppression by the oppressor classes. It is confession through projection. If Jews are yt, then why did Hitler try to kill us?
Judaism is religious blackness and homosexuality is sexual blackness. And at this point, being a Republican and a Trump supporter is a form of political blackness. Neoliberals have a disturbing tendency to put black women on a pedestal while demonizing and vilifying black men.
@@bluevines1303 it's so racist it gives Jews, especially homosexual ones, N-word privileges. Dare not call me yt if you don't want to hear that word.
When Lizzo was in an episode, they played her song "feeling good as hell" but they censored hell cause its a kids show but Penny saying that is ok?
Hell isnt even a bad word lol & Lizzo is problematic
Yeah I agree, putting this is a kid’s show wasn’t appropriate. But kids at some point need to know about racism and colorism. And the whole “black people cant be racist” talk, I never completely agree, because black people can be very discriminating, and mean to other racial groups and especially LBGTQ community. And as a disabled woman, I’ve experienced ableism from black ppl too. But, most kids don’t understand or can’t comprehend these types of topics. So, in a cartoon, not the best move.
Agreed ‼ They have to learn at some point but there's more effective ways it can be done like in the original series. And sad but true, most discrimination I've faced is from other black ppl too😶
@@TonyTurner wow, yeah it’s true when people say, it really be your own people…
@@TonyTurnerBro SAME, I don't mean to come off as self hating or an Uncle Tom, but back in 2006 it was usually Black Americans who would call me stuff like African bootyscratcher or make fun of my hair. And I've heard my parents say some racist af things about other ethnic groups too, up to and including swearing to disown any potential grandkids they may have if they're biracial. I will never be on board with the whole "black people can't be racist" thing
They’ll learn, and it’s ok to teach, but not from Disney (with very vocally admitted agendas).
Say gay or stop using words.
Anyone can be racist. Black or white. Red or blue. Purple/pink. Ppl can be racist. All ppl can be racist and Blacks. Bc we be through some awful and hateful stuff. No reason for us to act n behave in such a manner that is not cool. Smh. Its not cool for anyway to act this way. Smh.
I’m as white as they come, so I can’t speak for black people or Asian people, but as a person with basic common sense I will say that I think the whole idea of “black people can’t be racist,” and “racism = prejudice + power” is honestly a very dangerous mindset to have. Not only are such statements breeding grounds for toxicity on all fronts, but it doesn’t make people want to not be racist. If anything, I think it enforces racist behavior. It’s basically telling minority children that not only is it okay to racially profile their peers, but that they’re pretty much entitled to do so because they’ve been victims for so long that knocking their “oppressors” down a few pegs by attacking something they can’t control is interpreted as necessary. The whole point of progression is to move past these notions while remembering the impact they had on the past so that it doesn’t happen again. And the whole “Slaves Built This Country” scene doesn’t help, because it occurs mere minutes after Penny racially profiles the Chang Triplets, and her actions are all but enabled. Furthermore we as the audience are expected to agree with characters who actively engage in racial profiling while simultaneously all but demanding reparations for things that were historically fueled in part by racial profiling.
With all that said, I think you nailed it on the head when you said that the show is basically trying to backtrack on their rampant Asian stereotyping in the OG series. This whole scene is the writers basically telling viewers of the original run, “Yeah, we didn’t depict Asians very well in the past, but we’re black so what we did wasn’t racism.” Um, yes it was. You’re targeting an entire race of people by depicting them as control freaks that lack autonomy, while at the same time chanting about how your own people were denied basic autonomy in the past and deserve reparations for it. Every human being has a right to basic autonomy, and anything that depicts them otherwise is racist, through and through. It doesn’t matter your race, economic status, cultural background, or political ideology, racism has no cultural boundaries, and that’s what we should be teaching children. Anyone can be racist, so don’t be.
9:36 Dijonay calling out Zoey for racism while her friend is standing right there in a damn POCAHONTAS costume took my indigenous self OUT 💀 I know it's still divisive, but I'd expect better when they're actually discussing racism, no?
About the line 'slaves built this country' I think the line should have been 'All races built this country' since the US's culture was created as a result of immigration and native Americans.
Just saying slaves built a country is not only historically wrong but it also ignores all the immigrants that came the US not as slaves but people looking for new opportunities.
The US had a whole civil war overly whether or not to keep the institution of slavery, so I don't think this all lives matter rhetoric is applicable to the situation.
And the country was still full of immigrants at the time? Like read a history book. Or two. Since the inception of the US it has been immigrants looking for freedom from persecution. Be it the puritans from England, the Catholics from eastern Europe, the Chinese, the Irish, the west Africans. Immigrants didn't start after the war. And the war was Multifaceted. The real reason it happened is because the government said "I take back what I said about you guys running your owns houses and I will now step in and run them for you."
Just because you don't know the history doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
@@MattEldritchHorror it was a yt supremacist ruse to take money and property away from black plantation owners and to justify sending all blacks back to Africa. The United States never banned slavery, they just nationalized it.
The "power+prejudice" definition is from CRT, Pat Bidol specifically. To be fair she was trying to narrow down the discussion to systemic racism for PHD level legal academic discussion. So that discipline was worried more about laws and systems.
However, it does not work well as a general definition. The problem is we don't have another high academic level of study on racism, so people looking for educated opinions on the topic tend to interview Critical Race Theory professors and don't understand the flaws and high level criticism of CRT (not just by conservatives but liberal, black college professors).
While Bidol's definition made a bit more sense on the heels of the segregation and the civil rights movement, to use it to say "black people can't be racist" is racist because it insists on a static state where black people can not hold power, regardless of the situation.
It also completely erases nuance and mixed race experiences, insisting upon hard racial divides.
It was more honest when it was just George Jefferson comparing white people to the sound that a goose makes. CRT is just the same thing with a larger vocabulary.
@@Attmay Eh, there are premises of CRT I agree with, and some of the terminology is useful for certain discussions. But it really needs to be understood through a legal lens. In the US, black and white were legally defined terms for a long time. But we're pushing 60 years past that period and the terminology needs to evolve with the new legal situation. Binary grouping just don't work and CRT itself claims race is not real but a social construct.
(Note: Pat Bidol was a white woman.)
I do think we need higher academic study of racism, but it can't ignore the psychological component. Particularly if you want to deconstruct racism, you can't keep insisting on a Marxist binary of oppressed and oppresser.
Search the term "racial reductionism" if you want some higher level academic criticism of CRT.
Good post. Too few people understand that power is dynamic and relative to context.
Just because something is rarer, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think it would have been interesting to see the comparison. Maybe one of Chang's triplets is a victim of racism and the school is about to take care of the problem...Until he finds out the bully is black and they like :never mind! Maybe Penny confronts the bully, asking him why he thinks it's okay to do this when he's experienced racism himself. Or even go further and have a new student from Nigeria for example and the local Afro-American students start to bully him. There really is a case that happened in England where a young child from Africa (I'm sorry, I don't remember where he came from) was bullied by students at his school and the administration did nothing until he died, because the students were also black, just born in England. You don't have to be so tragic, just show how easy it is to fall into this kind of behavior even if you've been a victim of racism yourself.
Racism is the discrimination of a person, or group of people based purely on their race / color of their skin.
Real question: Were Penny's friends always so cruel and selfish, even towards each other? The episode supposedly about colorism was so upsetting to me. Zoe outside the door at the party scene hurt as someone who grew up with the show.
I mean, yeah Dijonay was always a backstabber, LaCienega was a jerk to Penny, and Maya is also one
Rewatching both, honestly the guys writing it just wrote a slightly watered down Bebe's kids...
the biggest irony is they destroyed a successful show starring the kinds of characters they always say they want in media.
As a asian,Racism is the pre concept (bad) of ANY race
example:Any news about racism
Being black does NOT mean you cant be racist nor excludes you from being racist.Period
Hugs from mexico and korea
I miss when the Proud Family was just about being a darn teen......They can keep this mess
Oh my gosh sad! I didn't realize.... it's really sad how Disney is more afraid to discuss preteen/teen hormones than social issues that give kids the wrong definition for racism. When I was a kid, the Disney channel shows were like Good Luck Charlie and Austin & Ally and Suite life of Zack & Cody on Deck, which were more for 8-9 year olds, not really teens as much. Kids mature earlier, so they are getting back into showing things like hormones and stuff, but they do it in such a lazy way.
I ain’t even gon lie this show is embarrassing 😂
Like this is definitely not The Proud Family I grew up with 😬
@@TonyTurner indeed
While I’m all for kids shows having more mature themes and lessons to teach kids, this is not how you go about it and also very harmful to be teaching kids in the first place. The proud family did so well introducing the idea of racism back in the 2000s but this is just horrifying.
I will argue this isnt dealing with more mature themes. it is very shallow actually
I agree. I didn't watch much of the old one (my Disney era was more the Good luck Charlie-Suite life era, but from what I seen the old show didn't seem so bad but they still tackled serious issues like this)
90% of the time someone has said "racism is prejudice plus power" to me, it was right after saying something real out of pocket about someone different than them. The other 10% of the time, it was because I went out of my way to understand more about why people actually say this. It's not because melanin is an inoculation against racism, it's because their racist remarks will never have even REMOTELY the same impact (unless there are _several_ other factors at play) and therefor, cannot be a societal-wide factor that can be studied in a way that makes sense to the science that puts that definition forward. Their words aren't changing and shaping policies, it's not creating new neighborhoods, it's not building fences, we can't point to an effect, so it's very different to what the majority race is capable of. That said, there are different aspects to racism, and trying to boil it all down to a sociological definition is so short sighted, it creates more problems than it solves. Taking this whole explanation out of the picture, to keep the "black people can't be racist" part ignores that life is nuanced, and not letting it be nuanced is hurtful to literally everyone... This idea is coming from a field of study that openly says "your individual experience isn't important until enough people of your group share it, we cannot see it from here, so we cannot count it as significant," and that's not something we want to do with a subject as impactful as racism. Everyone's unique experiences with racism MATTERS to the conversation.
So, recently I started reading about Daoism, a Chinese spirituality. The book also talked about confucianism. Confucianism focused on maintaining social order by "knowing one's place". Part of this involved a heavy focus on education when it comes to students. Because, to get a job in government, one had to pass an imperial exam, and one's grade can make the difference from a stable well paying job or not. So, it seems like the whole idea of Asian parents pressuring students into getting better grades is a cultural thing, and the model minority myth is an outside interpretation of this idea. Just food for thought.
It doesn't matter what race you are, anyone can be capable of cruelity as they can be of kindness. Disney, what the hell?
If the whole writers room is black then doesn’t that mean they have the power over the show and when they are prejudice that’s power + prejudice which = racism?
I honestly wish kids cartoons these days didn’t have politics shoved into them. It takes away the simplicity and innocence they had.
anytime someone has unironically said his to me I just look up the definition of racism and say "now do you see anywhere that says "does not apply to POC"?"
"Black people can't be racist!" That's when I had to stop watching the show 💀
This is making me finally want to watch it.
I wonder what think of people like Uncle Ruckus then. He's not just some fantasy character, there's actually people like him in real life like him
The Pennys of the world balance out the Uncle Ruckii of the world.
In my opinion, this show is having a bit of an identity crisis. It wants to dive into these deeper topics and present them to children. But it doesn’t want to format and contextualize them for children.
I bring this up all the time. Look at the Teen Titans episode “Troq”. They were able to get across the message that “treating people differently because of how they look is wrong” without saying it directly. Starfire was being discriminated against because of the planet she was from. When you have a fake planet, people can fill in the blank with any sub-category of people. And at the midpoint of the episode, Starfire asks Cyborg (a Black kid) if he’s been judged for how he looks. And he points out that of course he is *because he’s half robot* While that can be more easily translated to the disabled community (mainly those with prosthetics), disability has no race, ethnicity, religion, sex, gender, etc. So, they took a controversial issue and made it easily digestible for children.
TPF presents its topics in a way that is better served if watched by middle schoolers and older. There just also doesn’t seem to be much nuance. Like I’ve stated about the episode where the guy liked Zoey, they should have made it that he actually liked her for her (not her race). But Penny would still think he liked her for being White because of what Maya said. So, she still can have that amazing talk with Sugar Mama about finding someone who loves you for you and not what you look like. Then, the lesson at the end of the episode would be to not judge situations or take gossip at face value instead of “Zoey is just oblivious to her privilege and that makes her a terrible friend”. Heck, Disney already did that with Charlotte from The Princess And The Frog she was by no means a terrible friend. Heck, she was the most supportive person towards Tiana. But there were definitely points where she didn’t fully grasps the struggles Tiana had to go through to achieve her dreams.
Overall, I commend the series for tackling a lot of topics that do need to be discussed about how we treat and interact with each other as people. But they’re not doing it in a way that’s digestible to younger audiences. Nor do they open the floor to discussion so everyone feels included in the conversation so we can all grow and learn. It’s just “here’s how things are and you’re supposed to accept what we tell you”. I think this series has had so much potential and it’s wasting it. Hopefully it’ll at least open the gates for other shows to succeed it and better elaborate on these topics to spark a healthier discussion on these more taboo topics.
Well said ‼
👍
@@TonyTurnerThank you ❤
Honestly I feel people kinda forgot the definition of racism
Racism is to put it simply someone acting, thinking or saying something offensive towards someones race
I see a lot of kids at my school joking around about racism and sometimes some kids even accusing people of racism often as a joke but when it happened to me (I'm fem and Vietnamese on my mom's side white on my dad's side also I have been diagnosed with adhd so I wear headphones 🎧at school )I was just walking to lunch down the stairs there wasn't a lot people there except 2 other kids one of them bullied me kinda last year and lately he had been saying hi and it made me kind uncomfortable so I kept ignoring him until this day when he did the usual bothering until he said " I'm starting to feel that this is racial" because I was ignoring him
Just found your channel last week you make the night shift go so fast
Ngl, when it happened it felt like the writers were going to make the point that Penny was wrong and black people can be racist... than they didn't.
Yeah I was waiting for that. Especially when the context was Penny being accused of being racist towards the Chang triplets - another racial minority.
Black people can be racist, as there are many types of racism. Any race or ethnicity, or gender can be racist
G-nd-r is a misogynistic homophobic slur. It is verbal terrorism against women and gay people, and everything that it represents constitutes our systemic oppression at the hands of the oppressor classes. Just for this, I stand with Penny against those same oppressor classes. Not only can Black people not be racist, but neither can Jews, women, or any letter of the LGB community, and to say so constitutes a form of verbal terrorism against all of us. Words are violence, and there is nothing more violent than calling targets of racism racist. That is just DARVO shit, plain and simple. No, Only the oppressor classes can be racist.
And we are going to talk about the utter misogynoir of calling black women racist. The word racist is a racial slur in and of itself in this context. It is worse than the n-word in the context of hip-hop and sitcoms establishing a double standard for that word that other POCs, Jews, and the entire LGB community have earned the right to take back.
A lot of people nowadays confuse the term “racist” with systemic racism. You don’t need to have “prejudice + power” to be racist; that’s the criteria for systemic racism.
I’m early, thank you Tony. For handling this issue
You always make such great points, Tony. I wish I could up vote this video twice.
Love your channel and glad you’re talking about this it’s strange I miss the old proud family ❤
Im just saying....IF IT WASNT FOR TONYYY! we couldnt get this content lol. Keep up the great work man
Thank You ‼
I appreciate how you broke down the issues with the line and how it was handled. As much as I loved the Proud Family growing up, it's bizarre to see how things in the show were handled in hindsight. So many of the characters are just certain stereotypes with the slightest bit of additional personality added to them, and it makes me feel weird about how things are being handled.
This is one of those discussions that I feel like I should ordinarily stay out of as a white-passing individual (I'm mostly Romani and Native, but the Irish and Swedish genes were just too strong I guess), but your comment section is so diverse from what I've seen that I just wanted to throw my two cents in as well.
You're one of the most level-headed people I've seen online. Nothing but toxicity on Twitter; nothing but facts in this video. Much love 🙏🙏
I've been binge watching your channel and even got into this show. I wish the creators would listen to your critiques, for real
Deep. You earned yourself a subscriber
Those kinds of themes at times make me feel bad for existing since I'm biracial.
No shame in being biracial. Now pushing toxic messages to people, especially kids, is something those people should be feeling bad for.
I am also the product of a mixed marriage. As far as I'm concerned, any union of a man and a woman is a mixed marriage!
I feel like after the show was given the reboot treatment, the writers wanted to include things that probably weren't put in the original show. Race, gender, sexuality, and to a degree, politics were things that any kids cartoons had a focus one. But to what degree may had been toned down for one reason or another.
Thanks for having a really adult and logical discussion about this. A lot of people i watch go full political grifter when they talk about stuff like this and it becomes hard to agree with them publicly.
I don't agree with Penny's statement but to dig into it somewhat.
I feel like with the general semi-concious nature of the show the general nature of the statements arent really out of line OBJECTIVELY. Keep in mind as you've broken down many episodes , characters and episode themes that you've examined that discrimination, toxic behavior and such are very prominent in this show in general. I think the balance and nuance for the writing Penny pushing that(While she is the more balanced member of the group she has not been removed from being mean and ignorant at times which is fine for a character in general if its shown she grows since she is somewhat of a protag who usually is against such stuff to a extent) and not having any real biteback or real inverse to how she was hypocrital.
Boondocks had a much better theme of showcasing the inverse to things like that , example being Huey is very driven for social justice and things to the point he ignores signs or the possibilities of any drawbacks to his attempts and doesnt always bring together people for his causes due to his abrasive nature such has when he told a movie theater to unionize it shut down and everyone lost there job because it wasnt legal there. While Huey is increasingly intelligent and did suggest for a positive reason he didnt consider the other options and it was showcased in the episode even if it was more a B plot. I think more things like that could help the series out but thats just me.
Sorry i made it so long , i guess i had alot to say
IDK if Huey should really be held responsible for getting those movie theatre employees fired over unionization. He's just a kid and it wasn't as though he was holding a gun to anyone's head to make them unionize. Those employees should've been pissed off at the system and the people benefiting from it instead of Huey.
@@MattEldritchHorror they realistically wouldn't have if he hadn't suggested it , he is a kid but so are the characters in the proud family so for the sake of the argument its a fair comparison I think.
The boondocks is racist because they refuse to refer to the birthplace of Jesus as Israel and acknowledge the indigenous homeland of the Jews.
They are also anti-Semitic and homophobic for making liking Barry Manilow and *Gone with the Wind* examples of selling out. Even Carlton Banks stood up for his right to actually like what he actually enjoys without being called the sellout slur, including an especially Barry Manilow. Yes, sellout is a slur in this context because it is a demand for ideological conformity to yt h3t g-NT-l- shitlib degeneracy.
@@MattEldritchHorror unions suck. Especially the entertainment, police, and teachers unions. Those need to be busted the hardest.
I'm desi, and I definitely disagree with the sentiment that being black or being a POC in general prevents you from being racist or holding prejudice. I would say that Penny's seeming targeting of asian students to help on the debate team does show that she holds biases aligning with the Model Minority Myth, which would make her racist; and the show trying to sweep that under the rug while conversely portraying in depth struggles of black people shows a strangely 1 dimensional understanding of how racism works and how it effects people. If they wanted to focus on the struggles of black people in particular, all power to them, but to acknowledge the existence of racist constructs that effect other minorities only to (in a way) deny them is frankly ignorant.
Apart from their mishandling in this specific case, I would also agree that their portrayal of how racism works is incredibly heavy handed for the audience they're trying to reach. Shows like ATLA have done a much better job creating an understanding for how things like colonialism work in a way that's far easier to grasp for younger audiences. This isn't to say you can't be forthcoming with the facts, but there's a tact you need to have if you want your message to actually be comprehensible to your audience.
i remember the pround family was about a girl living normal life and dealing with hard ship of daily life and now... is a empty shell of its old self
You don't need to be powerful to be racist. Some people are in fact racist because of their perceived powerlessness...
And they are using that to justify taking back power that they believe that they are entitled to while they project that sense of entitlement onto those they are prejudiced against in order to make them look like the instigators of prejudice. It is all straight-up DARVO shit.
gotta say your the ohannel that handled this episode the best .
Thank You ‼
The best Kids show I've seen that Tackles racism is: "my little pony friend-ship is magic!"
In an episode in the very first season, the character of Zecora is discriminated against because she is a zebra. Even the six main characters discriminate against her.
But then the character of Apple Bloom opens up to Zecora and the two end up becoming friends.
Then later the six Main characters open up to Zecora and overtime the rest of Ponyville recognize her as normal.
The reason why I think it works is you can imagine Zecora as anybody who is different. White Black or Brown.
They still tackled the Native episode badly though
Dude! I love the Tomb & Jerry T-shirt.
And thank you for covering a very critical topic, I see more and more inappropriate and miss information directed at kids through cartoons and literature. It IS DISTURBING! 💀
It's like Disney doesn't know what racism means
It's what boomers project onto their elders who actually fought for the civil rights that they enjoy today. They are the privileged ones if they are working at a major Hollywood studio. If they had any self-awareness, they would see that. They are projecting their own privilege onto people who have nothing. Everywhere I go, I see homeless people of pretty much every background. How much power do any of them have? Individually, not much if this is where they are. Who made them this way? Boomers. They pulled up the ladder of success as soon as they got to the top, and then they melted it down for scrap metal. They were the last generation to grow up with racial discrimination and the mandatory expectation of heterosexuality with the wife giving up work as soon as she says "I do."
Shows like this are going to do nothing but pass hatred on to the next generation. It's a group of adult writers passing their baggage onto a group of kids who don't need it.
Boomers. They are the ones pushing this narrative in order to justify robbing every other generation of what is rightfully ours. They have turned race issues into class issues in order to justify putting up more barriers to upward mobility than ever before and claiming that that is capitalism. Hogwash! Barriers to upward mobility are anti-capitalist in intent and effect.
Racism=/= Prejudice+Power.
Racism= Prejudice÷Race.(Basically, Prejudice specific to race)
Just as Ethnocentrism= Prejudice÷Ethnicity.
Systemic Racism= Racism+System, where system= Laws+0rder×Power(Enforcement).
IMO, there's a difference between people that occasionally say/do racist things & genuine racists.
Thank you for saying this bro, nobody talked about this
Just tuned in bruv, I like your videos!!